SUNDERLAND v SPURS

[Geez]

SUNDERLAND 1 - 0 SPURS
Chopra

Spurs: Robinson, Chimbonda, Stalteri, Kaboul, Gardner, Tainio (Bent), Jenas, Zokora (Huddlestone), Malbranque, Keane, Berbatov (Defoe)
Subs: Cerny, Rocha

SUNDERLAND: Gordon, Etuhu, Nosworthy, McShane, Edwards, Whitehead, Stokes, Richardson, Murphy, Yorke, Wallace.
Subs: Miller, Ward, Collins, Chopra, Connolly.

BBC Match Report

Michael Chopra scored in injury time to give Roy Keane's Sunderland side a stunning victory over Tottenham on their return to the Premiership.

Chopra took a touch before firing home with almost the last kick of a game lacking in clear-cut chances.

Sunderland striker Daryl Murphy had earlier wasted the best chance of the game when he took a poor touch and was denied by Paul Robinson's legs.

Spurs had plenty possession but Dimitar Berbatov wasted their best opening. <!-- E SF -->

It was a dramatic end to a game otherwise almost devoid of incidents.

There was plenty of effort and enthusiasm from both sides but too many passes going astray.

It took 27 minutes for either goalkeeper to see a shot on target, with Berbatov combining well for strike partner Robbie Keane to shoot weakly at Sunderland's new stopper Craig Gordon.

Murphy should have given the home fans something to cheer when a left-wing cross evaded everyone but the Irishman at the back post late in the first half.

But with just Robinson to beat his second touch let him down and when he finally got off a shot he could not beat the keeper's legs from a tight angle.

Berbatov was Tottenham's biggest attacking threat throughout and when Steed Malbranque picked him out with a pinpoint pass he beat the advancing Gordon before going to ground under a challenge from Dean Whitehead with the goal at his mercy.

Referee Alan Riley was not impressed enough to hand out the first penalty of the Premier League season, and Sunderland could have punished them further when they counter attacked and Dickson Etuhu was agonisingly close with a curling effort just past the post.

Sunderland were wasteful from set pieces while Tottenham's attacking threat simmered out after the break, with Paul McShane particularly outstanding at the heart of their defence.

Darren Bent and Chopra were given second-half runouts but it was Etuhu who looked to have blown the chance for the three points as he failed to control Ross Wallace's free-kick with the goal at his mercy.

It looked like it was going to be a worthy point for newly-promoted Sunderland until the ball fell to Chopra in the box and he took a touch before slotting low into the bottom corner to send the Wearsiders home happy.

Spurs boss Martin Jol, whose side managed just six clean sheets last season, will know they need to improve quickly if they are to realise their Champions League aspirations.

Don't forget to check out the
MATCHDAY MAYHEM FORUM (http://www.spurscommunity.co.uk/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=41)




KEY ACTION (http://www.tottenhamhotspur.com/news/articles/livesunderlandvspurs.html)

http://img103.imageshack.us/img103/5858/awaysunderlandvsspurs45rd2.jpg

[Tricky]

Daws :(

What a downer after buzzing all morning!

[Tricky]

Also despite his well-known gaffs.... Stalteri is a very good defender and puts his body on the line!

[Leeuwardenspur]

can someone tell me if I can watch the game somewhere with TVants? Thank you

COYS!

[claphamspur]

Certainly not the defence we would have wanted. Strikers will need to run riot :-)

[alfiespurs]

Greetings fellow Fans from across the Globe ! WEll another new season,new hope and above all excitement ! A bit down not seeing Dawson in the line up ... Come on Spurs ! 3-1 to us ...

[matty182]

just watching jamir redknapp on sky..he's so anti-spurs everytime..does my head right in!!

proper test for us today i think..gonna be a tough one..weve been waiting for ages for this so i hope come 2 hours time were all happy!!!!

COYS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[adamsilver]

No Dawson, for FUCK sake, our problems will not be attacking - it will certainly be defending.

Need Jenas and Zokora (and Stalteri) to be on top fucking form to protect Gardner.

[littleAaronlennon]

Not good news regarding Dawson as his a huge loss, he also missed just one game in the entire campigan last season. I feel we can never trust Gardner and it's made a cruical game a lot more difficult so i'm afraid i have to go for a one all draw escipally with Slateri now playing at left back in fact we could be up against it this afternoon.:cry: just our luck surely Rocha would of been a better alternative, 3/4 of our first choice back line is missing it's unblieveable wretched luck.

[littleAaronlennon]

Matty i disagree with you Jamie is far from being anti - Spurs his entitled to his opinion afterall isn't he.

[Stono]

Let's hope Big Tony's having a good day....

[Coyboy]

anyone know where i can listen to this here, bbc has just let me down.

[Barber_Blackspur]

This is it come on u spurs!!!

[ricardo_archibald]

Malbranque playing well, could be his season...shame about Dawson...we are definitely weaker at the back....'attack is the best form of defence'

[pkeane10]

does anyone have a link to listen to plz?

[eastsidef1ava]

Am watching it... some really good slick passing by us, but also nothing tooooo penetrating just yet. Good signs however. We have the ball much more than them :)

[Coyboy]

yea help you can only listen to bbc in the uk

[addyben]

bbc london online commentary is down for some reason - anyone know where else you can listen?

[ronnieburgess]

Watching game on setanta broadband. Good reception and commentary. You can sign up for monthly or yearly.

[ricardo_archibald]

BBC London works fine in Africa!

[sebo_sek]

BBC London works fine in Africa!
And in Poland.
Just joined. How are we doing?

[sebo_sek]

Is Stalteri a CB?

[Stono]

Not looking too good... no passion, no pressure... luckily Sunderland are too crap to punish us.

[Stono]

Stalteri's playing left back.

[Coyboy]

yea fine now

[sebo_sek]

Gardner missed a cross. Well done Robbo!

[eastsidef1ava]

grrr.... Gardener at his best again :( ....he missed the ball...they shouldve scored... Robbo to the rescue... phew

[eastsidef1ava]

I think we'd want half time to come quicker than they do now... last 10 mins has seen us drop deep and let them play..

[ronnieburgess]

Gardner blows a cross. Sunderland open chance, Robinson comes up with great save. First opportunity by both sides

[eastsidef1ava]

couldve had a pen after Berba put through over the top from Steed... round the keepr... he stayed strong but got tackled.

they go up other end and have a shot from edge of box.... just wide...

[sebo_sek]

They are pushing us really badly. Good to hear that kaboul is so soild.
Berba also sounds classy. Malbranque involved all the time.

[ricardo_archibald]

I'm hoping Darren Bent's legs will make the difference in this game, it's very close in the first half...Sunderland coming into it more. Second half Bent on to get winner with his extra legs which Sunderland won't be able to cope with....we'll see...hope so anyway...

[eastsidef1ava]

HT. Think they'll be more satisfied than us. They also know our defence is a little 'make-shift' and if they probe they can force mistakes again... i.e. Gardener, Stalteri (right footed at left back).

We can easily win this, we just need to step it up... we've shown flashes of real nice passing...

[addyben]

i guess my computer is just a bag of shite..........

[Stono]

Get Tainio off, put Bent on. We should be walking all over this team.

[KarsenToon]

Chimbos new haircut makes him look like a completely different person.

[eastsidef1ava]

Don't mean to be picking on Gardener all the time! ...he's done well for us in the air :-)

[StokeSpur]

Its a 50/50 game atm. Berba been caught offside a lot, Keano's dropping in to midfield a lot. Kaboul looks good, Gardner ok but couple of mistakes, Stalti is ok and Steed working hard, JJ needs to start getting forward a bit more when Keane drops back coz Berbs on his own at times. Our final ball/cross needs to be better there missing their target all the time.

Shout for a pen when Berba went down, there was contact, Andy Grey said there needed to be more contact, how much does it take for it to be a foul!!

For me i'd give Keano 10 mins 2nd half then GET BENT ON this game would have been perfect for him.

I think we can nick this by 1 or 2. COYS!!!!

[PerthDave]

Spurs just warming up I think, second half will be interesting. I think Sunderland were a real unknown before the game started and I think it's smart management to have a look (the Roy Keane effect). A bit of a rocket to Gardner to concentrate and they are there for the taking, we are better!! Also will they be able to keep this pace of closing us down for the whole game!! Love it, come on second half!!

[davidmatzdorf]

I don't think we should be "walking all over" this team. They're extremely well organised in midfield and defence and are giving us no time on the ball and no space.

But we're not making enough runs off the ball, or at least people are not getting free of Sunderland defenders off-camera. I've seen Chimbonda and Jenas holding the ball and looking extremely frustrated because there's no one to pass to.

We're winning the ball well and (after the first 15 minutes) passing OK, but no one has yet figured out a way to get away from the really rather slow defenders.

Bring on Bent.

As for the defence, well, it's what you'd expect from a quartet who have never played together before, with one CD in his first Premiership match and a right back filling in at left back. Stalteri's defending OK, but every time he gets the ball on the left flank, he looks for a safe, backwards lay-off, which means Malbranque (our best player in the first half) isn't getting the ball unless he wins it himself.

When Gardner missed that header, it looked like a miss when you first see it, but the replay shows that he was never anywhere near it, so if anything it was an error of judgment to go for it, rather than a physical/technical error to miss it.

EDIT: I think the most disappointing aspect was that we had a period of about 10 minutes when we really started to dominate, culminating in a 2 minute spell of uninterrupted pressure. But then we lost the ball and lost concentration as well. Sunderland finished the half stronger than we did.

[tananwat_w]

Kaboul looks very good. The boy can really cross with pace and could probably make a very good right back.

Gardner is....well...Gardner. Just sell him out.

Berbatov to score in the 2nd half. COYS.

[Stono]

Yeah, they're well organized... but not much else than that. They've got no real quality apart from Craig Gordon.

[parj]

kaboul looking god, but we just not stretching sunderland.... is anyone in the spurs team playing wide?

carlos edwards and kieran richardson are looking better than malbranque!

[eastsidef1ava]

If anything, at around 60mins, Bent on for Tanio, Steed to the right, Keano drops to the left, Bent and Berba up top

[spurs_viola]

I feel this game is made for Bent and I hope to see him on for Malbranque ASAP. There are not enough options up front, with Keane as usual dropping deep and leaving Berbatov on his own, and Malbranque always cutting inside congesting the middle and leaving left side empty. So when our defence sends the ball high into Sunderland half, nothing usually comes out of it - this is where Bent would be so valuable!

This game is another perfect example of lack of width from us - Malbranque IS NOT a left winger, and without Lennon we don't seem to have a RW either. Such a pity Taarabt is not even on the bench!

Still hope/expect we can "nick" this 1-0 at least...

[pistolP]

Its a 50/50 game atm. Berba been caught offside a lot, Keano's dropping in to midfield a lot. Kaboul looks good, Gardner ok but couple of mistakes, Stalti is ok and Steed working hard, JJ needs to start getting forward a bit more when Keane drops back coz Berbs on his own at times. Our final ball/cross needs to be better there missing their target all the time.

Shout for a pen when Berba went down, there was contact, Andy Grey said there needed to be more contact, how much does it take for it to be a foul!!

For me i'd give Keano 10 mins 2nd half then GET BENT ON this game would have been perfect for him.

I think we can nick this by 1 or 2. COYS!!!!

Keane needs to come off after as he dropping too deep, leaving Bebetov on his own upfront. We are not dominating them and that where the midfield comes in

[sebo_sek]

Steed is doing a great job in LM. But we need to settle quicker. Jenas also sounds bright.

Come on if it isn't working put on Defoe or Bent - the latter preferably.

[sebo_sek]

Come on Berba. Another West Ham free kick please.

[eastsidef1ava]

Come on Berba....

[eastsidef1ava]

Damn, it was a foot or two over

[sebo_sek]

Bent on for Tainio. Come on Darren

[addyben]

we need a left sided player wothout any doubt - at this point I say go with matt taylor. then play a right winger....routledge hasn't been great preseason but at least he is a right sided player unlike tanio. lennon get better soon!

[ronnieburgess]

Bent on

[addyben]

come on darren score a blinder

[eastsidef1ava]

theyve just had their 6tth corner compared to our one

[Stono]

Someone's gone and told Kaboul he's an attacker!

[eastsidef1ava]

seems to have a good engine on him, twice now he's been your furthest forward running player!

[parj]

malbranque is shit! jenas and zokora just have no outlets cos malbranque just keeps coming in and crowding out the middle

[eastsidef1ava]

Sunderland look like they're going to turn up the heat...

Whilst Bent seems to be getting long balls up to him... not had a chance to show much yet..

[addyben]

malbranque is shit! jenas and zokora just have no outlets cos malbranque just keeps coming in and crowding out the middle

He isn't shit - he just isn't a wide left player. Preseason he was one of our best players. who would you suggest to play that role with the players we currently have?

[eastsidef1ava]

Defoe on for Berba!!

Possibly a very good move.... can see him dribbling and using his pace very well against their defence ....come on Defoe!!!

[eastsidef1ava]

malbranque is shit! jenas and zokora just have no outlets cos malbranque just keeps coming in and crowding out the middle

He isn't shit - he just isn't a wide left player. Preseason he was one of our best players. who would you suggest to play that role with the players we currently have?

Correct. At times Steed has retained the ball under hard/high pressure...

[Meds]

Am sitting in Bordeaux airport trying to follow the game on my PDA and cursing the man who thought the airport bar did not need a TV.

From those with a better idea of how it's going, is there any chance of a winner?

[eastsidef1ava]

Am sitting in Bordeaux airport trying to follow the game on my PDA and cursing the man who thought the airport bar did not need a TV.

From those with a better idea of how it's going, is there any chance of a winner?

No real chance to speak of I'm afraid... Defoe hasn't had much of the ball at all since coming on...

[eastsidef1ava]

We've not been in their half for at least 5 mins.... less than 4 min of the 90 to go...

[parj]

Correct. At times Steed has retained the ball under hard/high pressure...

he has also held on to the ball too long!! he playing down the right now and he still not doing much.

down the left it has to be tarabt simply cos he can play wide!!

as for pre-season, im sure iversen had plenty of pre-seasons where he was amazing! it dont mean shit when u play teams thar are below your standard

[eastsidef1ava]

Thudd on for Zokora

[sebo_sek]

Disappointing game. I can see that we will have problems with such muscular/physical teams.

[luisp]

what I'm seeing from the game. No good creative midfielders, from there,not enough balls going to the forwards. Not a good left winger,glaring problem,unresolved still because of the cheap yid president they have in that football club. And their phony 'we have a strict wage policy at that club'. Well when you have if Tottenham will be 5th. Later...

[eastsidef1ava]

Great volley from fully 25yrds from Thudd... after our corner gets cleared... his 2nd touch... keeper saves easily

[sebo_sek]

Come on 3 mins to go.

[eastsidef1ava]

Robbo saves from almost point blank at 5 yards out... they shouldve scored

[barry]

we look absolute cack. I'm embarassed

[eastsidef1ava]

injury time, their freek kick, 25 yards out.........

[eastsidef1ava]

...into the wall... phew!!

[changispur]

c'mon jenas, pop up with a goal!!!

[sebo_sek]

Fuck !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[BelsizeSpur]

Jol out anyone?

[davidmatzdorf]

Self inflicted. Nothing else to say, really.

Self inflicted wound.

[sebo_sek]

Typical really

[nav007_2000]

jenas is sh*t i cant believe it.

[eastsidef1ava]

93:07 min .... they fcukin score!!!!!!!!!!!!

[ricardo_archibald]

Top 4 my arse...

[hugefanfromwayback]

bugger. serves us right for not trying to win the game...spewing

[barry]

Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuucccccccccccckkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk

[Barber_Blackspur]

do I not like that poor

[luisp]

Haha, well Tottenham and Jol are stupid. Man how can you take off Berbatov. For that they deserved it. Good Sunderland

[L.S.U.Yiddo]

Haha, well Tottenham and Jol are stupid. Man how can you take off Berbatov. For that they deserved it. Good Sunderland

Might be because Berbatov didn't do anything today, just a guess though :shrug:

This is one of the things I hate about this club - the knee jerk reactions. We lose one game (which I admit we were poor in) but a lot of you react as if we've just lost a cup final. There is still 10 months of the season to go!

[sebo_sek]

Haha, well Tottenham and Jol are stupid. Man how can you take off Berbatov. For that they deserved it. Good Sunderland
Sod off mate.
You think we are a one man team? Incapable of getting anything without Berba?
Well chew on this for a while. He got subbed in the 77th minuted when it was 0-0!!!! Didn't exactly shine in the second half did he?

Such comments are of no use to anyone.

And by the way - Petrov is showing class for Man City - just thought the ney-sayers should know.

4.7mil Petrov, 8mil Matt Taylor :rofl:

[discodave]

Not the start we wanted or needed for that matter....
I dont want to sound like a twat here but if we cant beat mediocre teams like bloody Sunderland then whats the Fuckin point!!!!!!!!
Sorry but I am a little upset about the result.

[KingKeano]

didn't deserve to win, midfield were disgraceful, striker (berb) loked like he couldn't be arsed, we created nothing worthy and the only positive would be kaboul who looked mostly solid through the game in a makeshift back 4 roll on tuesday and after an arse kickin from jol we might perform:cry: :bang:

[sebo_sek]

Might be because Berbatov didn't do anything today, just a guess though :shrug:

This is one of the things I hate about this club - the knee jerk reactions. We lose one game (which I admit we were poor in) but a lot of you react as if we've just lost a cup final. There is still 10 months of the season to go!

:clap:
Just look back at Arsenal's last two seasons. Crap beginnings and lots of poor results but they got there in the end.

Also, from what I can see, the fight will be a lot tougher this year. Newcastle 3-0 up at Bolton by half time.

[pistolP]

didn't deserve to win, midfield were disgraceful, striker (berb) loked like he couldn't be arsed, we created nothing worthy and the only positive would be kaboul who looked mostly solid through the game in a makeshift back 4 roll on tuesday and after an arse kickin from jol we might perform:cry: :bang:

Jol does not kick any arse my friend as he is too nice, but he needs to be strong not too lovy duvy

[fazthfc]

same old same old. lots of promise no delivery!:bang:

[sunnydelight786]

As long as Jol is our manager i cannot see us breaking in to the top 4. This aint no knee-jerk reaction, been thinking that for a while. He's afraid to make big decisions and his substitutions are a joke at times. How many times have we bottled it in the last 18 months? Gutted :bang: :bang: :bang:

[forestyid]

ok we lost, and on the whole pretty poor, but was anyone else pretty impressed with the way Kaboul played? thought that considering he had gardener next to him he did well and showed a lot of promise to what we could expect in the future.

got to look for some sort of positive from what was a pretty poor game

[KingKeano]

too true but something needs to be done, cant play like that all season, whats happened to the team that played out of thier skins to beat west spam 4-3 ? or beat chelski 2-1? where's the team that were desperate to win? because they didn't turn up today!

[1986mattspur1986]

defo agree with kingkeano, da whole team wer poor 2day but berba was a fukin disgrace n he cudnt b arsed atall, younes lookd good, and gardner wtf!!!

[carlos10]

ok guys we are all disapointed it was a crap performance crap game etc.....but lets put things in perpective its early very early we will beat everton on tuesday and derby on saturday then we will forget about this result COYS

[bspurs]

I expected this result.
Bent was crap.

and what exactly Jol was thinking when he replace Berby with Defoe ? He thought Bent could do the target man job ?
Big mistake in my opinion with that substitution.
well... no point talking about this anymore
Zokora looks better than last season.
hopefully we'll be better with Bale, Lennon, Boteang and Taarabt.

[lenfoeing]

It is the midfield that is the problem. There is just no creativity. I know we have Lennon and lots of young talent but beyond that Tainio and Malbranque offer nothing really and Jenas is a waste of space. I just can't see him pushing on to become a decent player. We need a top drawer creative midfielder ASAP otherwise our season is going to evaporate pretty quickly.

I just wish that Jol and Commoli could see that. This is not knee jerk reaction I just feel we are missing the midfield quality to make a difference in games.

[doowaa]

I was walking down my hall and suddenly I had a shooting pain in my knee.....it jerked you see, just as Sunderland scored and instead of shouting bugger or No I went JOL, COMMOLI< LEVY OUT, SHIT WE'RE GOING TO GET RELEGATED and then I realised that it was just the first day of the season and that we had two home games to come and that we'd just got a bad performance out of the way. Better to lose now than when it counts towards the end of the season.

STAND STRONG EVERYBODY, STICK OUT YOUR CHEST, SHOULDERS BACK AND LETS HAVE A COME ON YOU SPURS.

[gloryspur]

Well the first match and my first post for the new season and like you all absolutely gutted! It always seems to be painful watching our first game remember Bolton last year! Another unbeaten pre-season and then we f it up when it matters! However aware it's a marathon not a sprint...

Thought the Roy Keane factor would come to the fore and to think I was laughing at Chopra for 5 mil that will teach me! :bang: Jenas oh dear, Kaboul as mentioned class, him apart absolute pants and why didn't Berbs get a clear penalty? The ref and commentator Alan Parry = prized wankers! COYS!!!!

[tobyb24]

It wasnt the best performance today, Beba didnt look intrested which is quite worrying and our midfeild had no creativity! The performance reminded me of the Bolton performance last year.

On the possative side I thought Kaboul & had a good game!Think we seriously need to look at getting another central defender so we have 4 class central defenders! Also need a creative midfeilder! As the midfield created hardly anything today.
We have to remember today we were missing 3 of our 1st choice defence also were missing our most creative midfielder in Lennon. I think MJ should give Routledge ago on tuesday. Lets hope this will kick start the lads and we can get our season going against Everton!

[nav007_2000]

Why did Gardner play?
He is pants. He was at fault for the goal.

Jenas, I still don't see what he does. Ok he runs up and down the pitch but his posession on the ball is poor and his passing is crap.

We have no creativity what so ever and we can't expect our strikers to score goals when they are not getting any service.

Im very dissapointed again.

Hopefully we will bea Everton. Last time we lost to Bolton first game of the season and lost to Everton at home

[theoldguy]

Sorry everybody but watching the match here in Canada I am damned frustrated and my primary thought is "what a load of rubbish". We appear to have the players to do the job (despite injuries) but where were they today? After the positive signs of the pre-season we face the reality of all round mediocrity. Come on you Spurs - lets' see the real you starting on Tuesday.

[Robelito]

Gutted with the result and we should have got a draw. Kaboul was good, Robinson pulled off several crucial saves, but the midfield frankly didn't turn up, Berbatov looked as if he didn't really want to be there, and we need to get Davies to cover instead of "Bambi on ice" who scared me witless anytime he was near the ball.

[Azrael]

Got to agree with the general view that our midfield remains a complete mess. Jenas is most definately a load of shite and until we get a decent ball winner in there we can sign as many strikers and defenders as we want, we'll still struggle.

*sigh* So many good signings, but the obviously problem left untouched.

[L.S.U.Yiddo]

Why did Gardner play?
He is pants. He was at fault for the goal.

Did you watch the game? Unless Gardner has developed the ability to split himself into two people over the summer without me knowing then he wasn't at fault for the goal. He was already marking someone. Chimbonda was caught ball watching, which allowed Chopra to lose him and drop back.

[rooster1]

Is sunderland further away than S.Africa ?
Are we still in Africa ? Cos we didn't turn up today.

No width, no creativity in the Mid. Hudd should've
been on earlier,we needed something out of nothing
which is what we were, n0thing.

[dirtydave]

i for one am not worried by that.

malbs had a good game at inside left before being told to switch.

kaboul looked great too.

i think with daws or king back we'll be solid for the whole 90mins

plus with bale over lapping malbs we will have some much needed penetration. KPB is certainly needed as sub as keano dropping deep didnt work at all today.

todays biggest positive, i thought, was that we kept possession for long periods.

[joey.leone]

that one was very hard to take

i think taking zokora off was a mistake, jenas should have been replaced, he was very poor.

oh well, 37 games to go.

[TheDutchMaster]

Apart from Kaboul our performance was disgraceful. We did not look like a team looking to push on from last season.

The midfield is so weak... How can you play with 4 CM's?

Whats the point of having 4 quality strikers when there is no one to pass the ball to them!

That Etuhi whatever his name is made Jenas look like a boy! he got muscled off the ball about 5 times because he was'nt up for it.

No fight and definitely no desire to break into the top 4!

Hope this is a wake up call!

But we should'nt need one!

[Makkaveli101]

I can't understand why Jol brought on Bent (tactically-wise... he did well under the circumstances)..... when it's clear it was creating chances from the middle of the park we were lacking. The arrival of Huddlestone was LONG OVER DUE. We could've done with him spraying through ball passes to our forwards from the 55-60th minute onwards!!! Berbs and Keane were never put in a good position by the midfield. It's the engine room of any side's attacks for f**ks sake! Jenas/Zokora were anonymous.....a top 4 club would've crushed us today!

Disappointing start to the season. Don't want to be too negative, but my fears about central midfield were again realised today. Surely a bloke like Jol MUST see that is our problem????? We need a talisman in the centre of the park, with leadership qualities, experience and most importantly bottle.

The Hudd HAS to start against Everton. There's an argument that Zok/Jenas will turn it on at home in front of thirty-odd thousand.....personally I'd drop Zok (who I thought looked quality last season), his complete failure to impose any kind of authority on the game was embarassing... and start with Hudd.... he was red hot in the EUROS, I think he'll make an impression this season. He's not the finished article by any means...but I reckon.. give him a shot.

[tobyb24]

Make matter worse about our midfield petrov is having fairly good debut for city today!

[Stono]

Sven got the players we need in Petrov and Elano... width and creativity.

[Sauniere]

No passion, no creativity, no pace and no luck.

That about sums it up for me. Positives about Kaboul he was excellent and he is an absolute man mountain. He was even running up the wing trying to get onto a decent through ball.

The defense overall did well considering the problems but we got stung once again from not seeing games out. The referee didn't help us to be honest, last 5 minutes he gave some dodgy decisions against us that helped keep the pressure on. The one where Huddlestone was being pulled back off the ball yet decision went againts him springs to mind.

Someone mentioned above about Jol being mad or incompetent for taking off our best player Berbatov. Berbatov got marked out of the game and he was pretty ineffective. Very tired in the second half - well done Martin Jol I say for recognising this and having the balls to do it and try something different. Berbatov will be back on tuesday with something to prove.

Too many backwards balls cost us in the end but to give Sunderland credit they had a team plan and it worked - as DM said earlier they closed up play well, they allowed are players no time to dwell on the ball and harried really effectively. Their goal was a bonus for them because it hadn't looked likely to be honest.

Our game plan as always is "see what the other team do and adapt if possible" I'm a bit sick of reactionary tactics and think it's about time we played our own game and say "we are Tottenham and have some of this" regardless of the opposition.

[N10toN17]

My tuppence worth, Bent should have started, these type of away games are ideal for him, he'd give us the option of stretching their defence in behind, we played in front of Sunderlands defence all day and it made it too easy for them.

Kaboul was excellent and I think he'll be on the team sheet all season, he's strong in the air and looks good for a centre half on the floor.

Our make shift defence shouldn't take too much flak, I thought they did really well for 92 mins!!!

The midfield lacks creativity, and players are playing out of position. We used 4 centre mids today and it showed, no pace out wide and no natural width to stretch the oppo.

You just can't get away with it,week in week out. I actually think in a strange way this may be a blessing, Jol said we lacked width and a spark after the match, hopefully this will be addressed befor the 31st.

I'd like to see Adel and KPB be given a go, against either Everton or Derby, I see no harm in trying.

[st@rbug]

<TABLE id=HB_Mail_Container height="100%" cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0 UNSELECTABLE="on"><TBODY><TR height="100%" UNSELECTABLE="on" width="100%"><TD id=HB_Focus_Element vAlign=top width="100%" background="" height=250 UNSELECTABLE="off">Well its typical spurs isnt it. Man tbh i aint lookin forward to this season, the press are putting alot of pressure on us to break into the top 4, and i just dunno if we are gonna do it, i mean it wud be spurs through and through to end up finishing 8th or 9th this term. This defeat has really put a crank in my day, oh god, im calling the doctor.
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[ricardo_archibald]

Reality check everyone....Tottenham are still not a Top 4 team yet, especilly if they can't take these games by the scruff of the neck and win in whatever style it takes...midfield or no midfield!!

Sunderland got a win, but they did not create much more, it was their spirit that edged ours.

[Tottenham_OZpur]

very poor performance, shaky defence, created nothing, it is going to be our away performances that will be the reason we will not get in the top 4. We are simply awful away from home and today showed no signs of improvement at all.

As soon as I seen the midfield straight away my thoughts of a win was gone, in fact I even said it to my old man , not enough creativity, no width and its no wonder Berbs was frustrated and looked pissed, no supply at all.

Part of the blame for me lies in the poor team selection by Jol, 4 CM'S just doesn't cut it, we will never stretch defences with that line up or create much as today showed. Would have rather seen Taarabt and Routledge on the wings than stupid 4 CM'S and neither were even on the bench :bang:

Yes it is only the first game of the season, but it is still and indication of what will/may happen this season, same old poor performances away from home, very very disappointing :bang:
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[WesTheWalrus]

why did Gardener play instead of Rocha?? hopefully Jol will learn from his mistake. to the ppl saying Berbatov looked disinterested, well he looked the same way while playing here in South Africa. but i really feel he's too big a player for Spurs, just hope he doesn't want to leave and that we can hold onto him!

one positive i'm taking out of the game is that our midfield showed a lot of bite.. same great tackles. and yea at the moment our 2 main creative sources are Berbatov and Lennon. whether we do need a more creative presence from central midfield is a good question.. ultimately the midfield needs to be well balanced, and there is no "perfect" midfielder who can do everything brilliantly. i think we do have some awesome players at our disposal, give Jenas a chance. however i'm not a big fan of putting square pegs in round holes, ie. Routledge should be given a go on the wing. or play with 3 CM's and let Chimbonda and Whoevers-At-LB run the flanks.

[alfiespurs]

:clap: :clap: Well Said ... As I type Man City go 2 up against the Spammers ! Kaboul was GREAT ! The rest in particular Jenas was terrible !

Sven got the players we need in Petrov and Elano... width and creativity.

[spoon]

Jol and co put all their eggs in two baskets, but they have neglected once again the midfield. Spurs will not break into the top 4 with Jenas, Steed, Tainio or even Zokora. When I saw the midfield I just knew that we would have a frustrating afternoon. I hope come Christmas that we are up there, otherwise Jol must go.

[MrGreaves]

A performance that showed that this team is light years away from any form of success.

[luisp]

Sod off mate.
You think we are a one man team? Incapable of getting anything without Berba?
Well chew on this for a while. He got subbed in the 77th minuted when it was 0-0!!!! Didn't exactly shine in the second half did he?

Such comments are of no use to anyone.

And by the way - Petrov is showing class for Man City - just thought the ney-sayers should know.

4.7mil Petrov, 8mil Matt Taylor :rofl:
yes mate i think you're a one man team. He got subed but he could of decided the game until the end.He's that of a player. And don't blame him because the midfielders are crap and can't pass 5 yards forward or neither fight for the ball. Or the only one that can do it (Zokora) has a crap of a shot. I'm watching Man city here dominating in the midfield with a bunch of guys bought 10 days ago. And spurs couldn't sort that thing for a whole offseason (Comoli? Jol?) cheap ass team that don't wanna give more wages. Petrov?
So for that you'll be 5th

p.s. unless they sort out their wage structure they will be always second hand because the blue chip players will never wanna come to the club for less money. Things change in todays football for a day.

[sebo_sek]

yes mate i think you're a one man team. He got subed but he could of decided the game until the end.He's that of a player. And don't blame him because the midfielders are crap and can't pass 5 yards forward or neither fight for the ball. Or the only one that can do it (Zokora) has a crap of a shot. I'm watching Man city here dominating in the midfield with a bunch of guys bought 10 days ago. And spurs couldn't sort that thing for a whole offseason (Comoli? Jol?) cheap ass team that don't wanna give more wages. Petrov?
So for that you'll be 5th

p.s. unless they sort out their wage structure they will be always second hand because the blue chip players will never wanna come to the club for less money. Things change in todays football for a day.

I agree about City. Most impressive. But to think we are a one man team is ludicrous. All of our strikers scored 20 goals last season or thereabouts and we had the highest number of scorers after man untied so get your facts straight. This was just the first game but a disappointment at that.

So who do you support? West Ham right? Since you're watching them.

[hermod]

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Chimbonda played like shit today.....

but I look bright at the future and Im quite sure this will be a reminder for the players!!

and what a disgrace to see several Spurs players argueing during the match. PLAY FOOTBALL

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[sebo_sek]

i for one am not worried by that.

malbs had a good game at inside left before being told to switch.

kaboul looked great too.

i think with daws or king back we'll be solid for the whole 90mins

plus with bale over lapping malbs we will have some much needed penetration. KPB is certainly needed as sub as keano dropping deep didnt work at all today.

todays biggest positive, i thought, was that we kept possession for long periods.

Did we?
Didn't sound like that on the radio. But maybe you were watching which would make all the difference.

[rjhotspur]

The idea that Tainio, Malbranque, or Jenas would get into a Man Utd or Chelsea team is laughable. Great for getting the ball stuck under themselves alright but no use for taking a team into the Champions league. If only we had had money to spend, oh wait we did, on a reserve striker when we have no wingers. No way Spurs are making top 4.

[coitspurs]

:evil:
I'm sitting in Korea watching the game with a gooner and a Canadian Scouse....F**k!!
That was soo sad.We put out a very conservative team.Nothing came down the flanks.We didnt have a winger in the game.It looked like a preseason kickround.Just because its away from home,we should be positive.Because of Lee Young Pyo every Spurs game is Live on telly in Korea.....Its the kick up the ass that we need!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Yes....I'm drunk.Korea is plus 8 hours,.

[luisp]

I agree about City. Most impressive. But to think we are a one man team is ludicrous. All of our strikers scored 20 goals last season or thereabouts and we had the highest number of scorers after man untied so get your facts straight. This was just the first game but a disappointment at that.

So who do you support? West Ham right? Since you're watching them.

No i support a good football and Germany. Most of the goals of the other strikers were fed off from Berbs. I tell you take him out and the maximum you'll get is 5th place. But anyway i said the problem lies in the Midfield, and a left winger. But i'm fucking tired of repeating myslelf.

And the wage structure and comoli, and fuck it i'll get a beer.

[mawspurs]

93:07 min .... they fcukin score!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yeah and there was only supposed to be 3 mins extra time. If the ref had bloody blown up we'd have a point now.

[battspur]

Learn the lesson Mr Jol.
despite what you see on the training ground, Jenas is very poor !
Why you kept him on the pitch - no one knows
We have the players now, so pick them !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[sebo_sek]

:clap: :clap: Well Said ... As I type Man City go 2 up against the Spammers ! Kaboul was GREAT ! The rest in particular Jenas was terrible !


But when I and a handful of others (maybe you too) said what a mistake it was to let petrov go, the reaction was: we must have not been in for him, he's old and average.

Well 3 cracking shots on goal, backtracking to defend, switching positions from left to right and a full game under his belt with no indication of tiredness.

City really do look impressive, although it's only one game, but Corluka, Petrov, Elane and the CB Corrida or whatever - class. With Hamman bossing and breaking up play, I must say I am beginning to envy them

Taarabt on the left/or right and Hudd in the centre against Everton please. Stick Steed can go to the right and jenas in the middle with hudd.

Please win on Tuesday. Please.

What a crap day.

[dirtydave]

christ its only one game.

if we win our next 2 games you'll all be saying spurs are great, champions league here we come.

[striebs]

yes mate i think you're a one man team. He got subed but he could of decided the game until the end.He's that of a player. And don't blame him because the midfielders are crap and can't pass 5 yards forward or neither fight for the ball. Or the only one that can do it (Zokora) has a crap of a shot. I'm watching Man city here dominating in the midfield with a bunch of guys bought 10 days ago. And spurs couldn't sort that thing for a whole offseason (Comoli? Jol?) cheap ass team that don't wanna give more wages. Petrov?
So for that you'll be 5th

p.s. unless they sort out their wage structure they will be always second hand because the blue chip players will never wanna come to the club for less money. Things change in todays football for a day.

Tottenham are not that "cheap ass" , they still pay wages that 2/3 of Premiership cannot match .

How many of those guys out there justified their wages , never mind an increase ? Maybe Kaboul , Tanio and Robinson , certainly no others .

To those saying we spent money on a reserve striker which should have gone on midfielders , we spent money to reduce our exposure to Berbatov getting injured which would have derailled our season .

We are not getting the best out of what we've got , can't see the point in getting new people in until existing players attitudes improve .

[singis]

we have no quality in midfield. jenas and zokora are useless. there it is the problem!!!!! A BIG PROBLEM

[luisp]

Tottenham are not that "cheap ass" , they still pay wages that 2/3 of Premiership cannot match .

How many of those guys out there justified their wages , never mind an increase ? Maybe Kaboul , Tanio and Robinson , certainly no others .

To those saying we spent money on a reserve striker which should have gone on midfielders , we spent money to reduce our exposure to Berbatov getting injured which would have derailled our season .

We are not getting the best out of what we've got , can't see the point in getting new people in until existing players attitudes improve .
no mate i'm talking about 4 PLACE wages,eveything comes with the territory you know!. And Tainio, what the fuck?, he deserves to play in Sampdoria along with Ziegler.! Enough said

[Kingstheman]

Damn. I live with a Sunderland fan. Stick, here we come.

[SpursManChris]

Sunderland 1 Tottenham 0...

It's gonna be the same old story boys...

Can't you just feel it?

[StauntonSpur]

Well just watched the match,had to tape it. Pretty deflated really. Couldn't see us losing, but the usual panic still seams to be there with a couple of min's to go.
Couldn't see us scoring after Berb's went off,Defoe certainly is't a replacement for him,don't know what MJ must have been thinking.
Thought Kaboul looked very promising indeed.
But as last year we need some real class in midfield.
Still first game, lets wait and see !!
Please Please Please 'O' Great one , let this be our year !!

[nav007_2000]

To say that Jenas is going to be our player of the season is absolutely bolloc*s.

He is useless and his set plays are pants.

We need more creativity. Anyway we can get Carrick back.

[kicked]

In a weird kind of way i'm glad we lost! At least the pressure is off now. Sunderland are shit?? This isn't the same Sunderland that went down! Roy Keane learn't from the best remember. First season in charge and he took Sunderland back up. Sunderland fight til the end...and thats what they did and got the reward!
Our problem is that MJ doesn't know his best team. Taarbet was looking dangerous in pre season but wasnt played today?? Berbi should have stayed on, but thats only my opinion.
We lost away at Sunderland to a last minute strike. Well, least the lads now know that preseason is over! Other teams will struggle at Stadium of Light. We are lucky that we have the rest of the season to go!
Everton at home.....

[KarsenToon]

Was i the only one who was pissed off by Jol not bringing on Huddlestone on earlier, maybe even starting him.

[Yidatron]

Everybody calm down! You never want to play freshly promoted teams early in the season. This was always going to be a tough game. Sunderland were up for it and would have been a handful for any team in the land today.

They were also v lucky. The mackems efforts earnt them a 0-0, but the footballing gods smiled on them and gave them a win.

Jol's mistake was to sub off tainio for bent. As many people have pointed out, he is our only tough-tackling cm and we were overwhelmed once he came off. I have grave reservations about the whole 3 striker thing: It doesnt matter how good they are if no-one can get the ball to them.

People calling for Taraabt, routledge etc: They would have been eaten alive today. What we required was more steel not guile.

[alfiespurs]

Yes dissapointed and in fact very dissapointed. We need to change things for Tuesday ... We need to make 2 major changes to give a bit of width and creativity... How about this my fellow faithful ?
Huddlestone

[alfiespurs]

oops sorry .. I meant
huddlestone
Jenas Tainio/Tarabat
Keane

Bent Berbatov

Thoughts ?

[coatescombover]

Typical Tottenham, flair with flaws, same old, same old.

[akie]

i feel that today has showed us where we need to improve...firstly man u/chelski/lpool if they had injury worries would have more than able back up...gardener-apologies but just not good enough, stalteri-not able enough at LB-which is fair....more able cover is reqiured!!

also if as we did you play with a flat four of CM's then you need strikers to run in behind to create the space, so why berba n keane? both drop off and when they collect the ball there nobody giving width, bent should have been used to create the runs in behind..........just my opinion!!

Its only early days 6points from next 2 will stand us in good stead for utd!

[Tottenham_OZpur]

People calling for Taraabt, routledge etc: They would have been eaten alive today. What we required was more steel not guile.

we creted nothing, had no width and it ended up with Berbs very frustrated and only 1 or 2 shots in the whole game, I don't think playing Adel and Routledge we would have done any worse, how could they do any worse than that crap ?

The midfield combination of 4 CM'S sucks and for me Jol takes some of the blame, I hate it every time as it is negative, no width and as today showed we created stuff all !!!

the first game of the season is very important, it is important to get a good start for a number of reasons, so this is such a disappointing result :bang:

[Thmsdonaghy]

we creted nothing, had no width and it ended up with Berbs very frustrated and only 1 or 2 shots in the whole game, I don't think playing Adel and Routledge we would have done any worse, how could they do any worse than that crap ?

The moidfield combination of 4 CM'S sucks and for me Jol takes some of the blame, I hate it every time as it is negative, no width and as today showed we created stuff all !!!

the first game of the season is very important, it is important to get a good start for a number of reasons, so this is such a disappointing result :bang:


Completely agree with everything you say.

[luisp]

oops sorry .. I meant
huddlestone
Jenas Tainio/Tarabat
Keane

Bent Berbatov

Thoughts ?

Кabul has to play. Anyone instead of Slowteri. Taarabt-unproven give him play but i don't think he'll handle a whole game.A replacement for him in mind. Prince. Hudd instead of Jenas.Jenas as a sub if nessesery.Zokora.

Berbs and Bent yes. Keane behind them.

they miss Lennon. have to bring back Bale faster,although never seen him play. And buy a left winger fast.

[dannyb]

Time to give gardner away and pay the money for curtis along with a left winger for goodness sake.Why on earth we have not sorted out the problem on the left side i really would like to know. Why buy rocha then play gardner ahead of him?

[blochuk]

As soon as the team and bench was announced it had the look of a cautious conservative and I have to say all too familiar Martin Jol team away from home.

We lacked creativity and width and ultimately that is going to mean 0-0 or 1-0 to either team and so it was. If we continue to put this type of team out we will have the same result week in week out and we all can see that.

I love my team and I like our manager most of the time but my one continued criticism is that Jol lacks the bravery to play a Taarabt or Boateng or Huddelstone or even routledge(yes I said it) in place of say Tainio or JJ or Zokora to give us some sort of spark.

Yes its soon and yes its just one game and yes we have injuries but look at the team today and compare to last season and it aint much different. All the hype and all the positive noises of new signings and we put out the the 2006 version of Spurs today when I was looking for the 2008 version

It will come but Jol needs to be as Brave as we know he can be

COYS

[octavian]

Jenas is a waste of space. I just can't see him pushing on to become a decent player. We need a top drawer creative midfielder ASAP otherwise our season is going to evaporate pretty quickly.

Agreed,him and Zokora are not top notch.If you cant dominate third raters like Sunderland,then God help us.We have little resistance and Fuck all creativety.Jol said on Final Score words to the effect that it doesn't matter what quality you have up front you must first of all create.
Jenas and Zokora create...my arse,and resiliance?.frankly no chance.They will Never be top class,and that's what's needed,so don't cross your fingers Tottenham fans,just prepare for their ineptitude long term.

[StokeSpur]

you need strikers to run in behind to create the space, so why berba n keane? both drop off and when they collect the ball there nobody giving width, bent should have been used to create the runs in behind..........just my opinion!!

I agree with that 100%

Its only early days 6points from next 2 will stand us in good stead for utd!

I do not agree with that "its early days" or "theres loads of games to go" crap, the fact is Sunderland are a new team who wernt perticulaly good and they havnt been together long enough to even gel properly, they matched us and bettered us at a lot of times.

The thing is we always struggle against teams with passion, guts, fight, we always look soft against em, theres only one place that comes from. wheres the passion? wheres the grit? wheres the will to win?

I'm sorry to say this but the starting line up for this game was wrong. Rocha infront of Gardner, Bent for Keane and no way should TT be playing wide right.
To take Berba off was wrong.
Berba could win a game for us in 2 seconds flat.
To sub Zokora late on was wrong.

When are we guna learn from past mistakes.

Yes i am very gutted and yes i believe we'll pick up but we had the chance to make it the best start (with next 2 being home games) for a long time, its what we needed but we fell very very short today.

The only plus i can think of from today is Kaboul and i like the new shirt.

[octavian]

The midfield is so weak... How can you play with 4 CM's?

Whats the point of having 4 quality strikers when there is no one to pass the ball to them!

Yep,we need class in midfield..not half hearted Jenas or Zokora.At least use Huddlestone despite his defensive deficiencies..the boy can play.Jenasi s sleeping towards mediocrity once more.Make an effort you Pansy!!!!!

[Coyboy]

The only thing more depressing than this result is the exaggerated negativity that has followed it. Yes we were poor. Yes we were beaten by a weaker side and yes certain players didn't turn up. But a whole lot of perspective is needed. Losing your two best centre backs is a blow any side would suffer from, look at Chelsea last year. Without Lennon and Bale, there is no width and that has to be addressed even when they both soon return.

Jol didn't really have much choice in the midfield. Taarabt, Boateng and Huddlestone are exciting talents but not ready to come straight into the team and dominate games. Contrary to what many say, the four midfielders who played today are very good players but as a quartet they are dysfunctional. Malbranque and Zokora look stronger, you always know what you are going to get and what you aren't going to get with TT and I am tired of defending JJ. Once our players come back from injury in midfield (and Bale) and the youngsters blossom, we will be much stronger.

Our problem remains one that we have had since Jol took over- the lack of a leader in the middle of the park- a Roy Keane. Zokora, Boateng and Hudd have the potential to become such a player but it takes time. These players don't grow on trees and Keane himself took time to become the player he was in 1999.

Lastly, berating Jol for playing Keane and Berba is laughable. They did get a few goals last season and I doubt you guys were complaining then.

As a side note, no offense to anyone but when we lose it seems to be often those fans that don't post here much that come out of the woodwork with moronic and over critical comments. Just a thought.

[coatescombover]

Some perspective.
Playing away from home to a newly promoted team with plenty to prove, unbeaten at home for ages, roared on by 40,000+ nutters and managed by another one who learnt his trade from the best, was never going to be easy, particularly bearing in mind our crap away form last season.
The real pity is that we succumbed right at the end, as we have done all too often over the years.

[Richitov]

I am just as upset and annoyed as all of you, but lets just sit back and look at the bigger picture. Ok almost every player had a below par game today (apart from Kaboul and Robbo who did nothing wrong) but we were in this same position last season and ended up in 5th with 3 good cup runs. Also consider that we were without 3 of our best and most influentual players out (King Daws & Lennon). If Jol can give them a boot up the backside (and trust me, he will. He may be a 'nice guy' on camara, but he wont hold back behind closed doors) and we win the home games against Everton and Derby, todays defeat could be long forgotton.

Hving said that absolutly gutted! Was so looking forward to today. But theres no place for negativity lets all get behind the lads and make today a distant memory. COYS!
Eek :cry: :beer: :clap:

[Paceyjg]

I managed to watch the first half and i agree with many of the posts on here that there was no width and hey what do you expect when you play four central midfielders! It is very worrying that Jol continues to be blind to this obvious problem. Ok we have Lennon who will surely be a starter when fit but what about the left hand side? And why no Routlegde today? He really must be on his way out the door.

[mendesstormer]

Interesting that nearly everybody thought we played badly. I think some people fall into the trap of thinking that if we lose we've played badly and if we win we've played well. Disappointment - which was admittedly massive today - clouds the judgement. That was a classic stitch up and could so easily have gone the other way. I think we would have been reasonably happy with the hard fought 0-0 that we looked like getting, against a well-organised Sunderland side who will take plenty of points at home this season. And we might have nicked the win, and would have deserved it more than they did. Overall, the reality IMO was that we played fairly well and were much more solid than we've often been away from home, and much more solid than I would have expected with this back four. We clearly deserved the draw, at the very least. Stalteri and Gardner are unpopular players, but they both had decent games despite a couple of lapses. The midfield were excellent defensively - countless good tackles from Jenas (particularly), Malbranque, Zokora and Tainio. Reasonably good control of the game too. The forwards weren't great (any of them), but obviously suffered from patchy service. Where we were obviously lacking, as a number of people have mentioned, was in creativity. Same old problem, when there's no Lennon to provide the spark with sheer pace. I can't understand why Taarabt wasn't on the bench - he's not injured is he? - as he would have been the obvious choice to stretch them in the 2nd half, much as he did West Ham last season. Other than that, I think Jol's tactics were sensible, if a wee bit cautious. He obviously looked for a strong, combative performance defensively (which he got) and then expected his much-vaunted strike force to make the difference. On another day, that probably would have worked. Two final points. 1. Kaboul looks the business. He can do everything Dawson does, but better. 2. We need a midfielder with a real eye for the killer through ball. Hopefully Huddlestone or possibly Boateng will step up. Otherwise we will have more 'bad' days like this.

[iluvsteffenfreund]

People who think we r good enough to break top 4 are living in a diff planet.. we are nowhere near it, that lineup today proves we have no strenth in depth... stalteri???? fucking useless got raped for the goal the fella didnt even do anything special but still left him on his arse and got the cross in.. and gardner!!!???? that fella is just a pile of shit! so our line up today will strike lots of fear into oppenents? we lose key players and replace them with this shit..
and berba done the same thing all pre season, moaning bout fellow players throwing his arms in the air sulking and being a lazy twat. he thinks he has arrived after 1 season.:duh:

[adwanhussein]

jol-for heaven's sake -only one chance on goal made by the mighty Spurs against a relegation team .just discard your infatuation with English primma donnas , players who are not going to produce for you.no way jenas is going to dominate the midfield and the Hudd is too slow and you lack a target offensive player.

[octavian]

Learn the lesson Mr Jol.
despite what you see on the training ground, Jenas is very poor !
Why you kept him on the pitch - no one knows
We have the players now, so pick them !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


The Toffees were supposed to be interested for £10 million...please accept Spurs.This player can not go any further,he is not a top class player in the making ,and we need to recognise that,rather than dream.Sell him now,and get in a class replacement,one who never goes missing during a game,and actually has the will to impose himself upon the game,not like Jenas who is happy to be anonymous.Well,Jermain if that's the way you want it ,ie not in the Goldfish Bowl,then try Div 1 you failure.Game one of a new season and your arse is missing!!!!Fucking Pathetic, Wanker!!!!!

[octavian]

christ its only one game.

if we win our next 2 games you'll all be saying spurs are great, champions league here we come.

Not me mate.I view things long term.and shit is shit is shit

[octavian]

we have no quality in midfield. jenas and zokora are useless. there it is the problem!!!!! A BIG PROBLEM

The truth is spoken

[rupsmith]

Im sorry - im not part of the Jol out brigade nor do I indulge in knee jerk reactions but today was a real bitter pill to swallow. I thought we had the last minute goal problem pegged - we had it bad two seasons ago. I cant handle it anymore - just too frickin bad.

Absolutely gutted.

Just wish we had someone who could create just a little bit.

[vigospur]

Typical Tottenham, flair with flaws, same old, same old.

Except no flair.
No leadership on the pitch either.

[octavian]

I love my team and I like our manager most of the time but my one continued criticism is that Jol lacks the bravery to play a Taarabt or Boateng or Huddelstone or even routledge(yes I said it) in place of say Tainio or JJ or Zokora to give us some sort of spark.

Correct

[spurdownunder]

Devastated but still hopeful.

It's only thre first game lads.

Les get behind the boys and see the goals pour in for the Everton game!

[mendesstormer]

The only thing more depressing than this result is the exaggerated negativity that has followed it. Yes we were poor. Yes we were beaten by a weaker side and yes certain players didn't turn up. But a whole lot of perspective is needed. Losing your two best centre backs is a blow any side would suffer from, look at Chelsea last year. Without Lennon and Bale, there is no width and that has to be addressed even when they both soon return.

Jol didn't really have much choice in the midfield. Taarabt, Boateng and Huddlestone are exciting talents but not ready to come straight into the team and dominate games. Contrary to what many say, the four midfielders who played today are very good players but as a quartet they are dysfunctional. Malbranque and Zokora look stronger, you always know what you are going to get and what you aren't going to get with TT and I am tired of defending JJ. Once our players come back from injury in midfield (and Bale) and the youngsters blossom, we will be much stronger.

Our problem remains one that we have had since Jol took over- the lack of a leader in the middle of the park- a Roy Keane. Zokora, Boateng and Hudd have the potential to become such a player but it takes time. These players don't grow on trees and Keane himself took time to become the player he was in 1999.

Lastly, berating Jol for playing Keane and Berba is laughable. They did get a few goals last season and I doubt you guys were complaining then.

As a side note, no offense to anyone but when we lose it seems to be often those fans that don't post here much that come out of the woodwork with moronic and over critical comments. Just a thought.

Coyboy, didn't spot your comment before when I was wading through all that complete bollocks. You are so right. The only point I'd slightly disagree on is that what's missing isn't the Roy Keane type. I thought this midfield today proved that they CAN compete with a pretty physical and defensive side. What's really lacking is the creative spark. I also think Jol nearly got it completely right. Laid the foundations for a victory by getting us to battle hard. We just lacked the killer moment (and player?) to finish them off.

[octavian]

[quote=Coyboy;556604]
Jol didn't really have much choice in the midfield. Taarabt, Boateng and Huddlestone are exciting talents but not ready to come straight into the team and dominate games. Contrary to what many say, the four midfielders who played today are very good players but as a quartet they are dysfunctional. Malbranque and Zokora look stronger, you always know what you are going to get and what you aren't going to get with TT and I am tired of defending JJ. Once our players come back from injury in midfield (and Bale) and the youngsters blossom, we will be much stronger.


Youre saying we are good enough but returning players will make us stronger in midfield.That dont make sense old boy

[Rufio]

Loving the chosen scape goats...

[octavian]

Some perspective.
Playing away from home to a newly promoted team with plenty to prove, unbeaten at home for ages, roared on by 40,000+ nutters and managed by another one who learnt his trade from the best, was never going to be easy, particularly bearing in mind our crap away form last season.
The real pity is that we succumbed right at the end, as we have done all too often over the years.

Actually from the class perspective this was one of the easier games,and to portray it as a more than difficult game than it should be is perhaps a failure to recognise the necessary quality of a leading side in this division...unless it was so,and we are truly strugglers for a top 4 position.Do I agree with you by default or not?

[DC_Boy]

I haven't seen us as top 4 all summer - and the team that trotted out today didn't look top 4

I don't make my predictions till after the first 4 games but so far 8th looks about right

with regard to the game itself, we were worse after TT went off - up to then we were comfortable for a draw - and then taking Zokora off left us even more exposed - what did we have left in mid Hudd JJ (having a mare) Steed and Keane (who once again showed he should be played as a striker or not at all - he is not a mid player)

For me a point would have been good enough - all 2nd half Andy Gray kept saying how we needed to win and how a point was great for Sunderland - and I'm thinking what game are you watching? because Sunderland are matching us all over the pitch and I'm well happy with a point

I'd far rather have seen Bent on for Keane/Berbatov - and us go a lot more long ball-(maybe long pass too with Hudd for a mid swap with whoever) we needed to stretch them while keeping solid ourselves

most prem managers would have kept it tight - Jol went for it - but it was a mistake it simply left our dodgy defence wide open

also why wasn't Taarabt on the bench? There was no need to have Bent & Defoe on bench - especially away from home - Bent is capable of playing a lone role himself if necessary - why have 4 strikers in the 16 and only 5 mids? -

Don't get that one at all - taraabt's been showing exactly the type of flair and aggression all pre-season our mid so lacked today - yes it was too risky to start him - but it should have been him coming on for Zokora or Tainio

One of the worst things about Bale being missing today is that he is good at taking set pieces - something we so lack at the mo
<!-- / message --><!-- edit note -->

[2bearis2do]

It was actually a SIX point game.
The top 4 will beat them there.
They are a very mediocre team and so were we today, first day of the season psychology is nonsense. We AS WE HAVE DONE FOR THE LAST 2 SEASONS LACKED BALANCE.
A problem NOT resolved by management at all levels.
So already we're chasing that pack rather than leading it. And showing true intent. It'll knock us back for six too. Everton at home? Well we know what they did to us last year.
SO DISAPPOINTED yet genetically atuned to a typical Spurs hiccup.
We'll come good, the problem is predicting when?!

[luisp]

I wonder why ppl are talkin about BLOSSOMING young players, who ARE NOT ready to play at that moment. Wait a minute- didn't Spurs said they wanna brake in the top 4 NOW?!?. How they gonna do it,when they don't have the players!!!?

Why Spurs are not talkin - We're gonna brake in the top 4 WHEN the YOUNG players blossom.

Why are the spurs buying young players, when they should buy READY ones.

Midfilders last year- Arsenal - Rosciky, Hleb 2 ready made players.

Spurs - Who, - Zokora (no end shot) for 8 mil. same money as both upstairs i think.

Taarabt-Trabant- whateva - not ready to play.

wtf am i missing?!?

[Gila1975]

:oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: Well, we have made some good signings during the close season and hopefullly they will have an impact ie Bale overlapping down the left when Malbranque cuts in.Boateng maybe having an influence (please-I know very little of him).Kaboul looks good, Bent for me should have started purely because he stretches defences.
All good stuff, but to the problem.We do not have a midfield that can play out wide (yes hopefully Bale will go someway to solving that from fullback) or dominate in CM (we had 4 of them today) or be creative.None of these problems are new and none have been addressed via the signings (Unless Boateng pulls it out of the bag).
This was what let us down last year and will be what lets us down this I feel.We can score goals despite the lack help from midfield and the defence looks strong on paper though the set piece/crossing still looked shaky today.
Overall we have made some progress as a squad but not improved in our weakest area.........midfield:duh: :duh:

[will8587]

Fuckin disgraceful. If we can't beat Sunderland, who can we beat?

Weak midfield? No shit! We didn't improve at all there from last season, and it was our weakest spot then too.

Here we go again. Start out slow, after a month start putting it together, and by that time, we'll already have lost any chance of finishing in the top 4. We'll be fighting for 5th for the rest of the season.

Dispicable

[NeverRed]

Interesting that nearly everybody thought we played badly. I think some people fall into the trap of thinking that if we lose we've played badly and if we win we've played well. Disappointment - which was admittedly massive today - clouds the judgement. That was a classic stitch up and could so easily have gone the other way. I think we would have been reasonably happy with the hard fought 0-0 that we looked like getting, against a well-organised Sunderland side who will take plenty of points at home this season. And we might have nicked the win, and would have deserved it more than they did. Overall, the reality IMO was that we played fairly well and were much more solid than we've often been away from home, and much more solid than I would have expected with this back four. We clearly deserved the draw, at the very least. Stalteri and Gardner are unpopular players, but they both had decent games despite a couple of lapses. The midfield were excellent defensively - countless good tackles from Jenas (particularly), Malbranque, Zokora and Tainio. Reasonably good control of the game too. The forwards weren't great (any of them), but obviously suffered from patchy service. Where we were obviously lacking, as a number of people have mentioned, was in creativity. Same old problem, when there's no Lennon to provide the spark with sheer pace. I can't understand why Taarabt wasn't on the bench - he's not injured is he? - as he would have been the obvious choice to stretch them in the 2nd half, much as he did West Ham last season. Other than that, I think Jol's tactics were sensible, if a wee bit cautious. He obviously looked for a strong, combative performance defensively (which he got) and then expected his much-vaunted strike force to make the difference. On another day, that probably would have worked. Two final points. 1. Kaboul looks the business. He can do everything Dawson does, but better. 2. We need a midfielder with a real eye for the killer through ball. Hopefully Huddlestone or possibly Boateng will step up. Otherwise we will have more 'bad' days like this.

Well said!!! Is this site full of infants?!!

Malbranque played rubbish according to some... apart from 2 wasted balls i thought he had a really good game and showed some battle and real quality

Zokora apparently showed complete failure to impose any kind of authority, yet he drove with runs on numerous occasions and tackled and closed down well.

Jenas was utter shite, a statement that is becoming something of a mainstay on this site and well rather annoying. Again i have to disagree, he also tackled well and sprayed some good passes around. He didn't play great but he wasn't shite, and to call him shite overall as a player to me seems somewhat niave.

I'm bored with negative comments about gardner too, he played well and if people actually watched he wasn't at fault for the goal.

Bent was supposedly crap too... he didn't get much of a chance and what he did get he did well with. There were some good darting runs into space and support play.

Someone was even stupid enough to blame commoli, and our wage structure, whoever that was i'd love to slap some sense into them

And jol bashers too, after one game this season, u lot are a complete disgrace after what he's done and shown for us so far. Coming fith isn't our right, and it's far from easy, plus if you look back to where we were and the managers we've had before, well u should be ashamed. Theres a scummy red club down the road, be my guest.

Our trouble today, apart from a forced unsettled and accomodating back line, was that we were unable to put the opposition on the back foot enough and force them to drop. No player out there really terrorised them. Tianio either isn't able to push on enough and attack while out on the wing, or he's been told not to, to tuck inside and cover instead. Marlbranque is slightly better at causing the opposition problems, but we did lack a lennon today badly and i wish we had had taarabt on the bench. The other major and quite significant issue is if you don't bludy shoot u won't score! A few times i was screaming SHOOOOOOOT and we need to!

[mart_loves_me]

Looking at the body language of some of the players today (i.e Chimbonda, Jenas, Berbatov) you wonder if they really give a toss in away games such as these against lower quality opposition. Even if we buy this 'magical' left winger & creative midfielder I still wouldnt back us for 4th because there is still something very wrong at Spurs which needs to be addressed. To put it simply, our mentality is a DISGRACE. Too many of our players playing in the comfort zone away at teams like Sunderland then needing a kick up the backside to improve in the next game (no doubt we will raise it vs Everton), but the point is the players shouldnt NEED a bollocking just to perform it should be installed into them already! Its so fucking frustrating because when we play well we tear teams apart like no other team bar the top 4! Sort it out Jol! RANT OVER..

[batigol]

Weak midfield? No shit! We didn't improve at all there from last season, and it was our weakest spot then too.


What do you expect when you have the exact same players on field as last season.

The fact is that neither Jenas nor Zok are creative enough. We need a CM who see passes and thread that through pass for Berbs and Keane to run onto, and neither of them can do that. That is the problem we had today, no decent pass for the strikers to feed on the whole evening. I don't blame either players for that nor think them poor. But for the sake of our team, we need to introduce someone who can actually share the creative burdens of the squad and not depend on Berbs, Keane, or Lennon to perform miracles all the time. (Mind you berbs and keane are strikers and they should be worrying about putting chances away and not having to create them by themselves which was what they did for most of last season.)

[sunnydelight786]

There is only one person to blame for todays result and that's Jol. I sick to death of hearing in the last 2 seasons how good we were in pre-season, i would much rather we have lost ALL the pre-season games as long as it meant we started with 3 points. Enough of this BS about Sunderland having the crowd and Keane behind them, fact is will Utd, Chelsea, Arsenal and Liverpool drop points there....I THINK NOT!!! The team put in a shocking 1st half performance, you would have thought Jol would have fired a rocket up there backsides for that but low and behold we get an even more inept performance in the 2nd half. Shaky in defence, Kaboul apart, clueless in midfield and inept upfront. Sunderland were there for the taking, FFS they just got promoted but we like usual away from home give these lesser sides too much respect. Sunderland will be in a relegation dog fight this season and like usual we have gifted them 3 points. How many of Sunderland's players would make our squad let alone our 1st team.....? Exactly, only Gordan. Sick to death of us bottling it, steel comes from the top and i'm afraid Jol lacks that. I pray to god he proves me wrong but with him in charge all we are looking at is a 5th place finish again. Before everybody starts firing abuse at me look at the simple facts of how much money we have spent in the last 3 years and what return we have had, is that good enough???
Jol is a good coach and a very nice guy but he has taken us to a certain level which he cannot take us beyond. In Holland he's known as a good coach, not a GREAT one. Our great club, after the money Levy has made available, deserves better. RANT OVER!!!:bang:

[offaly_yid]

Man of the match for me was McShane for Sunderland, gees that fucker was everywhere. Didn't give berba a sniff.

[will8587]

What do you expect when you have the exact same players on field as last season.

The fact is that neither Jenas nor Zok are creative enough. We need a CM who see passes and thread that through pass for Berbs and Keane to run onto, and neither of them can do that. That is the problem we had today, no decent pass for the strikers to feed on the whole evening. I don't blame either players for that nor think them poor. But for the sake of our team, we need to introduce someone who can actually share the creative burdens of the squad and not depend on Berbs, Keane, or Lennon to perform miracles all the time. (Mind you berbs and keane are strikers and they should be worrying about putting chances away and not having to create them by themselves which was what they did for most of last season.)

Taarabt
Huddlestone
Boateng
Jol better start giving them more time, but I'm not sure he will. He seems to have some infatuation with Jenas.

[yidal]

Simply put, some of this rection is crazy.

To people saying keane should be nowhere near the team and complaining we have no leader, he scored 20-odd goals last year, links brilliantly with berba and shows passion on the field, he is a tremendous captain and leader for us. To people turning on berba.... well thats just madness.

Gardner and Stalteri do age us all significantly during games with their concentration lapses, but lets not forget how far down the pecking order they are, and Salty at RB is a far more assured player. I'd love to know why Rocha didnt play, he seemed to be in line to play LB throughout preseason.

As for the midfield, yes we had no width, and that has to be addressed. But Jenas and Zokora are fine in the centre, its LM and RM that have to be sorted. I thought Zokora was excellent today, he does have grit and determination, leads by example and injects our team with pace through the middle, stretching the play on the counter attack. No he doesnt have much creativity, but he has progressed so much since Christmas last year, and breaks up so much of the opposition's play. Taking him off at the end is arguably what cost us the game. Hudd, who will be an excellent player, was not what was needed at that stage. He watched as the ball came to Chopra, whereas i think Zokora based on the 88 mins he was on the field would have been in there to clear.

So how do we solve the width problem until Lennon gets back? Steed had some excellent moments today, and at home perhaps he could play, but I would definitely stick with Tainio away to add solidity. On the right Routledge or Tarrabt simply must get a chance now. They would add pace and skill that we badly need. Anyone worried about Tarrabt being too young, simply look at how Lennon burst on the scene when given his chance.

The lack of at least one winger exposes us at the back too, both through the full backs desire to add width going forward leaving us exposed behind, and the fact that with two CMs out wide as they drift in the full backs are exposed. So please MJ, come Tuesday lets see a real winger somewhere in the team.

To finish on a positive, yes we were poor today, but there is no way we deserved to lose. A draw would have been the right result, which wouldnt have been great, but not a disaster either. A clean sheet with that back 4 would have been a very good result. Kaboul looked very solid, someone who can make a real impact this season, and the confidence he had surging forward could deliver some good moments this season. And finally, Robbo starting the season off on form is simply great news, he looked assured, made 2 very good saves, and we will obviously be a far better team with him having some confidence, its gutting he didnt get a clean sheet to boost it some more.

So please, lets not panic, and those who are down the Lane on Tuesday lets get behind the boys and hopefully give the Toffees a bashing!

[spurs mental]

Em...why wasnt routledge in the squad today??

[spurs mental]

Jols subs wer poor today...he took off Berbs and put on Defoe...it should have been Keane off and Defoe on..Hudd should have been on for Jenas earlier in the 2nd half...

A plus-Kaboul had a very good game and was quite solid...Chimbonda is a fucking joke...excuse the french...but does that guy know how to pass a ball within 5 seconds??He takes ana ge over the ball and then waits til all our players ahead of him are amrked...he ends up going backwards...putting us under pressure

Robbo had two good saves...Is Routledge injured..because if hes not its beyond me why he didnt play...it would have added creativity which we had zero of.I would have takena point at the start of that game...Now MJ really has to try to win the next 2 games against Everton and Derby at the Lane or people could start getting on his back.

Berbs looked disinterested today and really annoyed when he came off.Can you blame hime?No I dont think so..even though he was ineffective hes still our best player and can produce that spark or moment we need in a game.I was shocked when MJ took him off.He was causing Sunderland to defend quite deep I thought

[pistolP]

defo agree with kingkeano, da whole team wer poor 2day but berba was a fukin disgrace n he cudnt b arsed atall, younes lookd good, and gardner wtf!!!

Keane was worst my friend, and shold have been taken at half time.

[chookz]

Fantastic four my ass please bring back Mido at least with him we had one of our best starts ever to a season

Jol Out Berbatov Out Defoe Out bent Out..dare I say it Keane Out..

Phew yeah I said it

[richieboy]

In my opinion we have concentrated on the wrong areas in the transfer markety. Left wing has been the real problem position for the past few years. When Lennon isnt playing we lack flair and creativity. It is all very well having top quality strikers but if we cant create chances for them whats the point. Surely we need to move for someoen like Wight Phillips before the transfer deadline

[pistolP]

I can't understand why Jol brought on Bent (tactically-wise... he did well under the circumstances)..... when it's clear it was creating chances from the middle of the park we were lacking. The arrival of Huddlestone was LONG OVER DUE. We could've done with him spraying through ball passes to our forwards from the 55-60th minute onwards!!! Berbs and Keane were never put in a good position by the midfield. It's the engine room of any side's attacks for f**ks sake! Jenas/Zokora were anonymous.....a top 4 club would've crushed us today!

Disappointing start to the season. Don't want to be too negative, but my fears about central midfield were again realised today. Surely a bloke like Jol MUST see that is our problem????? We need a talisman in the centre of the park, with leadership qualities, experience and most importantly bottle.

The Hudd HAS to start against Everton. There's an argument that Zok/Jenas will turn it on at home in front of thirty-odd thousand.....personally I'd drop Zok (who I thought looked quality last season), his complete failure to impose any kind of authority on the game was embarassing... and start with Hudd.... he was red hot in the EUROS, I think he'll make an impression this season. He's not the finished article by any means...but I reckon.. give him a shot.

I will drop Jenas based on todays game

[littlemandefoe]

Upsetting really. Crap game too.

[pistolP]

Reality check everyone....Tottenham are still not a Top 4 team yet, especilly if they can't take these games by the scruff of the neck and win in whatever style it takes...midfield or no midfield!!

Sunderland got a win, but they did not create much more, it was their spirit that edged ours.

You said it right,their spirit that edged them the win but where were our spirit today ? thats what managers are paid to do.

[pistolP]

yes mate i think you're a one man team. He got subed but he could of decided the game until the end.He's that of a player. And don't blame him because the midfielders are crap and can't pass 5 yards forward or neither fight for the ball. Or the only one that can do it (Zokora) has a crap of a shot. I'm watching Man city here dominating in the midfield with a bunch of guys bought 10 days ago. And spurs couldn't sort that thing for a whole offseason (Comoli? Jol?) cheap ass team that don't wanna give more wages. Petrov?
So for that you'll be 5th

p.s. unless they sort out their wage structure they will be always second hand because the blue chip players will never wanna come to the club for less money. Things change in todays football for a day.


You do have a point but you do talk as if your are not one of us, meaning that you support a different team to us

[asher]

I love BMJ but just don't understand why he thinks are current midfield are good enough to get us in the top 4? The likes of Taino, Jenas, Zokora and Malbranque would not get a look in at the top 4 and today they showed why. It does not matter if you have the best forwards in the world and the best defence if there is no creativity in midfield then there is no supply. WE didn't create one chance all game agaisnt a poor team. All the top teams have wingers who create and score....we have Taino!!!!!

[pistolP]

No i support a good football and Germany. Most of the goals of the other strikers were fed off from Berbs. I tell you take him out and the maximum you'll get is 5th place. But anyway i said the problem lies in the Midfield, and a left winger. But i'm fucking tired of repeating myslelf.

And the wage structure and comoli, and fuck it i'll get a beer.

I am pissed, so are you and the rest of millions of spurs fans world-wide. I hope you enjoy your beer, i will try have one myself(beers of sorrow)

[Berbamaniac]

Forgive my rubbish spelling.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Agree with an awful lot of what has been written here. Obviously it's important not to knee jerk, but we should have the confidence to go places like <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:place>Sunderland</st1:place> and beat them comfortably. It's a measure of our team that we all thought this would be a cagey and dangerous game for us. When we will go to these places and do the job ala <st1:City><st1:place>Chelsea</st1:place></st1:City>/ <st1:place>Liverpool</st1:place>/ Man Utd?<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
On the positive side I think that Kaboul was excellent. His forward runs, composure, stature and technique were great to see. This was, however, in stark contrast to our all round play.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
I don't think the line up was all-together awful. They were probably the best players we had available. That said, they are all better then anything <st1:place>Sunderland</st1:place> have. That is not meant as a slur on <st1:place>Sunderland</st1:place>, or as a delusional statement, it's just true. So when can we make it count?! <o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Our midfield has been a problem for so long. I agree with the above poster who questions why we believe Zako and Jenas will work this year when they really didn't last year. This is not a knee jerk. They have such awful creativity and support. Zoko has never scored for us and rarely (if ever) creates, and with the amount of games we play and the players he has around him that is unnacceptable. This is an important season for Jenas: technically he is good; but he is not great at anything. To play Tainio on the wing now is also wrong. I have no worries with Malbranque. It's worrying to see the team angry and blaming each other on the first game of the season against a newly promioted side. I do think Jol has made many mistakes in his tenure. Some were today; we need to begin to hold him culpable for the team’s performances. The signing of a £16.5m striker to back up our least needy area, instead of signing a great and much needed creative midfielder/ left winger is frankly ridiculous and baffling. It was there for us all to see today.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
I am sort of looking forward to, and dreading, Everton: I look forward to the things we must improve on, whilst I dread what might happen if we cock it up again like today and last season. Arteta and Johnson could really exploit us. That said, I am positive we'll win.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Blimey, that was a bit longer than I had intended. Let the criticism commence.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p> </o:p>

[will8587]

In my opinion we have concentrated on the wrong areas in the transfer markety. Left wing has been the real problem position for the past few years. When Lennon isnt playing we lack flair and creativity. It is all very well having top quality strikers but if we cant create chances for them whats the point. Surely we need to move for someoen like Wight Phillips before the transfer deadline

Agreed. We should have signed some width. However, in a few weeks I think we will be in a better position. Hopefully Bale will be getting some time at LB/LM, and Boateng will be playing, adding a little more creativity to the midfield.

Hopefully, we won't have dug our own grave by that time.

[ShelfSide18]

I cant believe some of these ridiculous posts after ONE game which could have gone either way. I said before the start that the only thing standing in the way of us being successful this season is the dickhead element of our support who get on the players and Jol's backs.

Watch us bounce back from this in style (like we did last season after the Sheffield Utd game where the muppets were booing and calling for Jol to be sacked). Again ive got home from the game feeling ashamed, not of the players but of the absolute first class idiots who masquerade as fans.

[Berbamaniac]

I cant believe some of these ridiculous posts after ONE game which could have gone either way. I said before the start that the only thing standing in the way of us being successful this season is the dickhead element of our support who get on the players and Jol's backs.

Watch us bounce back from this in style (like we did last season after the Sheffield Utd game where the muppets were booing and calling for Jol to be sacked). Again ive got home from the game feeling ashamed, not of the players but of the absolute first class idiots who masquerade as fans.

You, sir, are greatly mistaken. Every club has idiotic fans - granted, ours could be worse than others, and that section is of course moronic; however, that does not make them the single biggest obstruction to Spurs being a succesful club this year. That opinion is more than foolish. Our midfield, left wing, King's recovery, and goalkeeping issues are infinitley more of an issue. I am not saying that some of our fans are right in jumping on then teams back when things go a little wrong. I am, however, suggesting you divorce yourself from the hippyish/ Deal or No Deal belief that if we get behind our team and never criticise them then their is no limit to their ability. Because there is. Jenas will not become Kaka by insisting that there is nothing wrong with him, and getting behind him. Sometimes we need to, and should, criticise. The right position to take up would be somewhere between your incredibly liberal happy clappy statement, and that of the knee jerk idiots here. Don't criticise their statements and then give an equally idiotic one.

[S17PUR]

In my opinion Tainio is not good enough to warrant a place in the team. Yes he can tackle a bit but his passing and awareness aren't great and he has no vision. I know he gets a lot of stick but I would far rather see Murphy playing - at least he looks forward rather than back!

I actually think Zokora was quite good today and much better than Jenas. I don't understand why Jol didn't sub Jenas rather than DZ, but then I remember thinking that on occasions last year. As has been said however, our real problem was the lack of wide players with attacking intent. Both Malbranque and Tainio look to come inside or turn back when in possession out wide (obviously Steed has the excuse of being right footed and playing on the left) and neither makes forward runs down the line. This resulted in many shaky moments for both Gardner and Kaboul who saw far too much of the ball than they should have done. Personally I'd like to see Taarabt, Boateng, Routledge or even young Danny Rose in the side instead of Tainio. We should be looking to attack teams like Sunderland not protect against their attacks, and due to the lack of width and creativity we were simply unable to do so. It's a cliche but attack is often the best form of defence.

This having been said we are terribly unlucky with injuries (though its no excuse for today).

[luisp]

You do have a point but you do talk as if your are not one of us, meaning that you support a different team to us
No i support them and i hate arsenal,but i don't like watching them being crap. As I said i like good football,played with a fighting,combative spirit ala Bastian Schweinsteiger. Anyway we'll see what will happen

[marcoi]

<TABLE id=HB_Mail_Container height="100%" cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0 UNSELECTABLE="on"><TBODY><TR height="100%" width="100%" UNSELECTABLE="on"><TD id=HB_Focus_Element vAlign=top width="100%" background="" height=250 UNSELECTABLE="off">I listened to the second half on the radio via radio as I'm in Italy, and I couldn't manage to find anyway to watch it.(no Footballon.net)One thing I heard was how much our midfield seem to either give the ball away or create little for the forwards.
we miss Ledley,and Lennon etc but we still have the players to beat Sunderland.
Are we going to buy a midfielder that can make something happen and a left sided player? Otherwise breaking in to those top places will be impossible, just look at the teams that finished above us last year and compare our midfield, our defence and forwards are almost as strong as the top 4, but the midfield???
I hope this is a wake up call, as we were perhaps getting carried away with ourselves pre-season.
Come you spurs 3 points on Tuesday!!!
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[UbeAstard]

Did you watch the game? Unless Gardner has developed the ability to split himself into two people over the summer without me knowing then he wasn't at fault for the goal. He was already marking someone. Chimbonda was caught ball watching, which allowed Chopra to lose him and drop back.

I hate it when people get on the knock Gardner bandwagon, however Gardner must take some blame for the goal. When the cross came over he missed his header and then the ball was falling to Sunderland players.

Berbi got nudged and clipped a couple of times 1st half and got nothing besided the ref was telling him to get on with it, so maybe thats why some people thought he had a dont care attitude but he often looks like that.

S17PUR , your comment on Tanio I dont agree. Not creative at all but the work and tackles he gets in is desperately needed sometimes. If you could get Huddlestone and Tanio into one person then all the better, but there arent any of those players around.

Thought Zakora had a good game so surprised he has some knockers.

[luisp]

I am pissed, so are you and the rest of millions of spurs fans world-wide. I hope you enjoy your beer, i will try have one myself(beers of sorrow)
yep :beer:

[ShelfSide18]

You, sir, are greatly mistaken. Every club has idiotic fans - granted, ours could be worse than others, and that section is of course moronic; however, that does not make them the single biggest obstruction to Spurs being a succesful club this year. That opinion is more than foolish. Our midfield, left wing, King's recovery, and goalkeeping issues are infinitley more of an issue. I am not saying that some of our fans are right in jumping on then teams back when things go a little wrong. I am, however, suggesting you divorce yourself from the hippyish/ Deal or No Deal belief that if we get behind our team and never criticise them then their is no limit to their ability. Because there is. Jenas will not become Kaka by insisting that there is nothing wrong with him, and getting behind him. Sometimes we need to, and should, criticise. The right position to take up would be somewhere between your incredibly liberal happy clappy statement, and that of the knee jerk idiots here. Don't criticise their statements and then give an equally idiotic one.

Ok good reply! No fans getting behind Jenas won't make him Kaka but it certainly helps. I just can't fathom how people can say after 90 mins that 'Jol has taken us as far as he can' etc etc. My point is that we've put ourselves under enormous pressure with the pre season build up and a few dodgy results and suddenly the negative element jump on the tabloid style bandwagon. The fact is had Huddlestones late volley sailed in (not outlandish to suggest) the same idiots would've hailed it as a win full of character.

I now just go to games reminding myself that 90% of fans actually don't really have a clue what they're on about as snobbish as it sounds.

Thanks for a sensible reply btw.

[spurs_viola]

...Someone was even stupid enough to blame commoli, and our wage structure, whoever that was i'd love to slap some sense into them

And jol bashers too, after one game this season, u lot are a complete disgrace after what he's done and shown for us so far. Coming fith isn't our right, and it's far from easy, plus if you look back to where we were and the managers we've had before, well u should be ashamed. Theres a scummy red club down the road, be my guest.

Our trouble today, apart from a forced unsettled and accomodating back line, was that we were unable to put the opposition on the back foot enough and force them to drop. No player out there really terrorised them. Tianio either isn't able to push on enough and attack while out on the wing, or he's been told not to, to tuck inside and cover instead. Marlbranque is slightly better at causing the opposition problems, but we did lack a lennon today badly and i wish we had had taarabt on the bench. The other major and quite significant issue is if you don't bludy shoot u won't score! A few times i was screaming SHOOOOOOOT and we need to!

Sorry, you're just contradicting yourself here...It is exactly the responsibility of Jol and Comolli to select players they feel will push us further up and it is up to Jol (and presumably Hughton too) to select tactics and coach the players to follow it. So to complain about "lack of creativity" and "wish we had taarabt on the bench" and "if you don't shoot you don't score", etc as if they are some outside, unfortunate occurences, and not expect criticism directed at management is just naive and not very clever.
Same applies to Martin Jol pointing to more or less same above points in the post-match interviews after another inept away performance...If you choose negative tactics and unbalanced team, please don't expect them to produce good football and go out for a totally justifyingly expected win.
If you choose a positive tactics, with emphasis on creating problems for the opposition rather than trying to negate problems they can create for you and then players do not follow your instructions, REPLACE them - not choose same players every time, ie not the same MF quartet Jenas, Malbranque, Zokora, Tainio again and again away from home!

[spurs_viola]

<TABLE class=tborder id=post556958 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" align=center border=0><TBODY><TR><TD>Berbamaniac - Today, 09:54 PM </TD></TR><TR><TD class=alt1>Quote:
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">Originally Posted by ShelfSide18 http://www.spurscommunity.co.uk/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.spurscommunity.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?p=556946#post556946)
I cant believe some of these ridiculous posts after ONE game which could have gone either way. I said before the start that the only thing standing in the way of us being successful this season is the dickhead element of our support who get on the players and Jol's backs.

Watch us bounce back from this in style (like we did last season after the Sheffield Utd game where the muppets were booing and calling for Jol to be sacked). Again ive got home from the game feeling ashamed, not of the players but of the absolute first class idiots who masquerade as fans.

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
You, sir, are greatly mistaken. Every club has idiotic fans - granted, ours could be worse than others, and that section is of course moronic; however, that does not make them the single biggest obstruction to Spurs being a succesful club this year. That opinion is more than foolish. Our midfield, left wing, King's recovery, and goalkeeping issues are infinitley more of an issue. I am not saying that some of our fans are right in jumping on then teams back when things go a little wrong. I am, however, suggesting you divorce yourself from the hippyish/ Deal or No Deal belief that if we get behind our team and never criticise them then their is no limit to their ability. Because there is. Jenas will not become Kaka by insisting that there is nothing wrong with him, and getting behind him. Sometimes we need to, and should, criticise. The right position to take up would be somewhere between your incredibly liberal happy clappy statement, and that of the knee jerk idiots here. Don't criticise their statements and then give an equally idiotic one.
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Point very well made! Pretty much reflects my feelings about the aggressively "happy clappy" brigade on the one hand and about the guys whose input to discussion is lmited to "we're just shite/such and such is a w***er/we're doomed" on the other.

[NeverRed]

I cant believe some of these ridiculous posts after ONE game which could have gone either way. I said before the start that the only thing standing in the way of us being successful this season is the dickhead element of our support who get on the players and Jol's backs.

Watch us bounce back from this in style (like we did last season after the Sheffield Utd game where the muppets were booing and calling for Jol to be sacked). Again ive got home from the game feeling ashamed, not of the players but of the absolute first class idiots who masquerade as fans.

:clap:

Maybe thats it, fans but not supporters... though i don't think they are standing in the way of anything, it is shameful however

[ShelfSide18]

I'd rather be known as a 'happy clappy liberal' than the negative idiots who masquerade (word of the day) as 'realists'. At least there's some sensible people on here.

I will still maintain that fans can make all the difference in games. If we get off to a dodgy start against Everton the fans are gonna get restless and thats only going to affect the players.

Maybe I didnt articulate my point well enough, i'm just fed up with the knee jerkers who can't see how that game could have gone either way. We didn't lack passion and effort at all today. There was evidence of the slick passing triangles that we did so well in the latter part of last season just underland defended so so well. Credit to them.

[NeverRed]

Sorry, you're just contradicting yourself here...It is exactly the responsibility of Jol and Comolli to select players they feel will push us further up and it is up to Jol (and presumably Hughton too) to select tactics and coach the players to follow it. So to complain about "lack of creativity" and "wish we had taarabt on the bench" and "if you don't shoot you don't score", etc as if they are some outside, unfortunate occurences, and not expect criticism directed at management is just naive and not very clever.
Same applies to Martin Jol pointing to more or less same above points in the post-match interviews after another inept away performance...If you choose negative tactics and unbalanced team, please don't expect them to produce good fottball and go out for a totally justifyingly expected win.
If you choose a positive tactics, with emphasis on creating problems for the opposition rather than trying to negate problems they can create for you and then players do not follow your instructions, REPLACE them - not choose same players every time, ie not the same MF quartet Jenas, Malbranque, Zokora, Tainio again and again away from home!

REPLACE them after one game of the new season?! I'm glad you're not in charge. It's not really a contradiction either, I mean Jol and Commoli can't run on the pitch and bang the ball in the net for us can they? Or drop a ball right infront of bent or defoe to tuck into the net?? When the whistle goes all fate lies with the players you have on the pitch, albeit the manager and coaching staff being able to help a little with substitutions and shouting directions. I mean i very much doubt Jol sent out the players having told them to play negative!

They (Commoli, Jol, and the board) did a wonderful job this summer bringing in players or did you miss that? Right now a lot of the new signings are finding their fitness ready to come in and do the job we're hoping they can, while key key players for us are recovering from injuries.

Someone made the comment that we need a new left back, yet we have Bale, Lee, BAE, with Rocha/Stalteri for extra cover if need be, plus a young talent in Berchiche. How many more players in that position can people expect. Sometimes in football u just get unlucky, be it with injuries or during matches, shit happens.

Just like with players, for managers form is also temporary but class is permenant. They to can make mistakes, but jol has realised them from the game already and no doubt he'll be rectifiying them for our next game as much as possible. Jol has great man management, an amazing football knowledge, a good personality, commands respect, and despite what you may think he is a sound solid tactician too.

There's not too many better we could have, to add critique and opinion is one thing, but to wildly point fingers and jump to hasty conclusions (and especially 1 proper game into the new season!!!) is not just niaive, it's pathetic too...

[spurs_viola]

As soon as the team and bench was announced it had the look of a cautious conservative and I have to say all too familiar Martin Jol team away from home.

We lacked creativity and width and ultimately that is going to mean 0-0 or 1-0 to either team and so it was. If we continue to put this type of team out we will have the same result week in week out and we all can see that.

I love my team and I like our manager most of the time but my one continued criticism is that Jol lacks the bravery to play a Taarabt or Boateng or Huddelstone or even routledge(yes I said it) in place of say Tainio or JJ or Zokora to give us some sort of spark.

Yes its soon and yes its just one game and yes we have injuries but look at the team today and compare to last season and it aint much different. All the hype and all the positive noises of new signings and we put out the the 2006 version of Spurs today when I was looking for the 2008 version

It will come but Jol needs to be as Brave as we know he can be

COYS

Fully agree. After all the hype and expectations it was a bit depressing to see exactly the same team (bar Kaboul) as last season when we were away and when King/Dawson and Lee were injured. Depressing in the way that you were kind of expecting the kind of performance that lost us so many away games and contributed to so few clean sheets last season.
Robinson was not to blame at all though - unlike several of last season's matches, and Kaboul showed why he is a very good signing. But the tactics, negative midfield and the startlingly mediocre Stalteri and Gardner sadly lived up to those concerns/expectations...

Martin Jol seems to have developed a serious case of Ericssonitis last year and it doesn't appear to have gone away at all: picking same players even though there's clearly a disbalance (Jenas/Tainio/Zokora/Malbranque with minor variations) and not promoting young exciting players for fear of their lack of experience. Unless you give players like Taarabt, Boateng, Dervitte a real chance (ie playing them from the start in several of competitive games, not just occasional 20-25 min), how can they get the experience they need? Wenger gave such a chance to Fabregas, Clichy, et al, Ferguson to the young guns of the 90s - and it paid off handsomely. None of those young players were established stars - they went on to become stars after getting trust and guidance from their managers.

[st@rbug]

i feel that today has showed us where we need to improve...firstly man u/chelski/lpool if they had injury worries would have more than able back up...gardener-apologies but just not good enough, stalteri-not able enough at LB-which is fair....more able cover is reqiured!!

also if as we did you play with a flat four of CM's then you need strikers to run in behind to create the space, so why berba n keane? both drop off and when they collect the ball there nobody giving width, bent should have been used to create the runs in behind..........just my opinion!!

Its only early days 6points from next 2 will stand us in good stead for utd!

so 6 points in next 3 games then, oh the joy.

[spurs_viola]

My point in reply to a post: {If you choose positive tactics, with emphasis on creating problems for the opposition rather than trying to negate problems they can create for you and then players do not follow your instructions, REPLACE them - not choose same players every time, ie not the same MF quartet Jenas, Malbranque, Zokora, Tainio again and again away from home!}

Retort to my point:
REPLACE them after one game of the new season?! I'm glad you're not in charge. It's not really a contradiction either, I mean Jol and Commoli can't run on the pitch and bang the ball in the net for us can they?

My retort to the retort:
Have you actually read what I wrote? Please stop hiding behind the "after only one game" nonsence. I have made the precise point that the same problems that dogged us in away non-performances last season have repeated themselves almost exactly now, at the beginning of the new season. How many more games do we need to learn if we had these problems for the whole of last season and we had the whole of pre-season to try and do something about them? So when we see the same type of negative, cautious approach with the same conservative players it is not about the "only the first game" - it is about not correcting old limitations and not showing more ambition again. And if after the whole season some of the players repeat the same performances at the start of the new season, then yes, REPLACE some of them with new, perhaps less experienced but more positive, more skillful and more ambitious players.

[pistolP]

You, sir, are greatly mistaken. Every club has idiotic fans - granted, ours could be worse than others, and that section is of course moronic; however, that does not make them the single biggest obstruction to Spurs being a succesful club this year. That opinion is more than foolish. Our midfield, left wing, King's recovery, and goalkeeping issues are infinitley more of an issue. I am not saying that some of our fans are right in jumping on then teams back when things go a little wrong. I am, however, suggesting you divorce yourself from the hippyish/ Deal or No Deal belief that if we get behind our team and never criticise them then their is no limit to their ability. Because there is. Jenas will not become Kaka by insisting that there is nothing wrong with him, and getting behind him. Sometimes we need to, and should, criticise. The right position to take up would be somewhere between your incredibly liberal happy clappy statement, and that of the knee jerk idiots here. Don't criticise their statements and then give an equally idiotic one.

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: Five star reply

[NeverRed]

My point in reply to a post: {If you choose positive tactics, with emphasis on creating problems for the opposition rather than trying to negate problems they can create for you and then players do not follow your instructions, REPLACE them - not choose same players every time, ie not the same MF quartet Jenas, Malbranque, Zokora, Tainio again and again away from home!}

Retort to my point:
REPLACE them after one game of the new season?! I'm glad you're not in charge. It's not really a contradiction either, I mean Jol and Commoli can't run on the pitch and bang the ball in the net for us can they?

My retort to the retort:
Have you actually read what I wrote? Please stop hiding behind the "after only one game" nonsence. I have made the precise point that the same problems that dogged us in away non-performances last season have repeated themselves almost exactly now, at the beginning of the new season. How many more games do we need to learn if we had these problems for the whole of last season and we had the whole of pre-season to try and do something about them? So when we see the same type of negative, cautious approach with the same conservative players it is not about the "only the first game" - it is about not correcting old limitations and not showing more ambition again. And if after the whole season some of the players repeat the same performances at the start of the new season, then yes, REPLACE some of them with new, perhaps less experienced but more positive, more skillful and more ambitious players.

erm, the point about needing to play more positive was mine too! did u read my original post properly? We should have been more attacking, especially on the wings, I think Marlbranque can do this but teemu i'm not so sure, it doesn't appear that way (unless he's been told not to).

Where we differ is you think we need to drop any 1st teamer who didn't perform after one difficult away game into the new season.

I was also trying to point out that when the whistle goes for KO there's only so much influence a manager can have, fate lies then mostly in the players (& maybe the gods too as a 93rd minute 13 seconds to go winner proves).

As I'm sure most would know you can give instructions for your players to follow but there's 11 other players working their hardest to stop those tatics from working effectively, it doesn't always happen as planned.

I'm not adverse to a change or too, infact i would have loved to have seen taraabt come on yesterday if he were on the bench. That there were problems or slight changes needed wasn't the point to my original post, which if you read properly you wouldn't find contradictions.

I was more having a go at the blind haters and digs at players who played well cause i was tired of reading it after a while. The amount of stupidly negative and ridiculous/unjustified finger pointing in posts after yesterdays game got way too annoying. Too many posts were cringeworthingly fickle, and amazingly premature.

Give it time, for the team to get into premiership flow, maybe they got the harsh lesson they needed yesterday - a kick up the arse if you like - i hope so... Wait for our new signings to come in rather then blast jol and commoli for the players they brought in over the summer.... accept the squad (even at it's big size) was thin on the ground yesterday with many key players out... Move on and look forward to getting things right on Tuesday.

... Oh yeah, and if someone says Jol out in reponse to yesterday, forgetting all the good thats been done... i will hunt them down and suffocate them with pictures of christian gross and gerry francis

COYS

[ikan]

For those who think we lost to a crap team. Please take note .... Sunderland is ain't that bad. They are quite a tough team and when u r playing against a newly promoted team way on the first match .... it tend to be hard. I was hoping for a draw but I must admit the lack of concentration in defence at the end of the game is a bit worrying.
Yet again, I do have faith in the team.

[carlos10]

look people stop moaning you fans are giving us a bad name its one game just one fu-k-ing game..if your a team in this league you will lose games man utd liverpool chelsea etc will lose games this season its a tougher league this year ...anyway il bet you will see a diffrent performance on tuesday :grin: coys

[nicko]

disapointing result but we have 10 months to make up for it. Good next few results and we will be back on tracks keep your heads up lads!

[chookz]

We were rubbish

[Timspurs]

We were rubbish

I agree!!

[barry]

where are the jenas supporters????????????

[luisp]

Fuckin Arsenal did it, with a midfielder scoring the goal (Hleb). A player of his caliber that we don't have and then don't ask why we don't have the 4th spot. Pathetic!!!

[sebo_sek]

Fuckin Arsenal did it, with a midfielder scoring the goal (Hleb). A player of his caliber that we don't have and then don't ask why we don't have the 4th spot. Pathetic!!!

But deep down didn't we all know they would do it in the end?

We have to give the kids a go against everton and Derby. By that I mean Taarabt and Routledge (who isn't a kid).

If he gets his confidence back, he would be like a new signing for us.

[luisp]

But deep down didn't we all know they would do it in the end?

We have to give the kids a go against everton and Derby. By that I mean Taarabt and Routledge (who isn't a kid).

If he gets his confidence back, he would be like a new signing for us.
yes.and that is the difference between they and us.When i watch our midfiled is like sitting on one place,barely anyone moving or forward progress.when u watch theirs is like u expect anything to happen any minute.thats what our strikers are missing. Berbs is an animal you give him good passes from the midfield and he is capable of scoring 3 in a game and make more even for the other players. But the hunger...!!, thats why hes so frustrated

You put him in the Arsenal team and he'll score 3 a game.believe me.

[tommyt]

Man of the match for me was McShane for Sunderland, gees that fucker was everywhere. Didn't give berba a sniff.


yep. When McShane played for the Republic V Check Rep he marked the mam mountain that is Koller out of the game. He was immense again today.

[Berbati]

yes.and that is the difference between they and us.When i watch our midfiled is like sitting on one place,barely anyone moving or forward progress.when u watch theirs is like u expect anything to happen any minute.thats what our strikers are missing. Berbs is an animal you give him good passes from the midfield and he is capable of scoring 3 in a game and make more even for the other players. But the hunger...!!, thats why hes so frustrated

You put him in the Arsenal team and he'll score 3 a game.believe me.

With Berbs in their team, Arsenal would be a serious title contender. With Fabregas, Rosicky and v. Persi behind him he would score 35+ every season. So, let's be not that surprised that he gets very frustrated when our midfild is as futile as it was yesterday.

[cabinfever]

Em...why wasnt routledge in the squad today??.

I'll tell you why. Because Jol was trying to keep all strikers happy.

Why do you need two strikers on the bench for an away game?

[Robelito]

Having read this section I found myself getting depressed, even if yesterday's had already achieved that. Some fans seemed to lurch from wanting to fall on their swords, through slitting their wrists, to those who wanted to string up the whole team and especially the manager.

Yes, we were terrible yesterday. And yes it was a collective terrible. And I suspect all the hype about the team had not only made the team over confident, but us fans as well.

As my late Dad used to say: "As one Swallow does not a summer make, so one defeat does not a season end"

Everton will be a major test for all, and I include fans at the Lane who need to get behind ALL the players and the management.

COYS - I'll be screaming you onwards on Tuesday as I watch on Sky, and then on Saturday at the lane.

And Taarabt had better be playing!

[whatsappnin]

.

I'll tell you why. Because Jol was trying to keep all strikers happy.

Why do you need two strikers on the bench for an away game?

away game refer confuses me. rocha ahead of gardner 4 gods sake. and bent for keane or why spend the cash

[DC_Boy]

It was a mistake not to have Taraabt on bench - let's hope Jol rectifies that Tuesday - it might even be worth starting him - but that's probably too risky -

[Kingstheman]

yes.and that is the difference between they and us.When i watch our midfiled is like sitting on one place,barely anyone moving or forward progress.when u watch theirs is like u expect anything to happen any minute.thats what our strikers are missing. Berbs is an animal you give him good passes from the midfield and he is capable of scoring 3 in a game and make more even for the other players. But the hunger...!!, thats why hes so frustrated

You put him in the Arsenal team and he'll score 3 a game.believe me.
I was thinking something similar (maybe).

Although our passing can rival a team like Man U or Arsenal - there are games where our off the ball movement is nowhere near their class - away games up north being classic ones - last season we lost to a Northern team that got relegated and played in red and white....

I watched (with a little envy) that Carrick appeared far more mobile and the players movement of these teams was better than ours - more total football like.

However - all is not lost. Kaboul to me is Damien Comolli's first real find. Damien Comolli's effect will take a few years to feel but other players will start to come and we will do better.

[If**kinglovespurs]

There is only one person to blame for todays result and that's Jol. I sick to death of hearing in the last 2 seasons how good we were in pre-season, i would much rather we have lost ALL the pre-season games as long as it meant we started with 3 points. Enough of this BS about Sunderland having the crowd and Keane behind them, fact is will Utd, Chelsea, Arsenal and Liverpool drop points there....I THINK NOT!!! The team put in a shocking 1st half performance, you would have thought Jol would have fired a rocket up there backsides for that but low and behold we get an even more inept performance in the 2nd half. Shaky in defence, Kaboul apart, clueless in midfield and inept upfront. Sunderland were there for the taking, FFS they just got promoted but we like usual away from home give these lesser sides too much respect. Sunderland will be in a relegation dog fight this season and like usual we have gifted them 3 points. How many of Sunderland's players would make our squad let alone our 1st team.....? Exactly, only Gordan. Sick to death of us bottling it, steel comes from the top and i'm afraid Jol lacks that. I pray to god he proves me wrong but with him in charge all we are looking at is a 5th place finish again. Before everybody starts firing abuse at me look at the simple facts of how much money we have spent in the last 3 years and what return we have had, is that good enough???
Jol is a good coach and a very nice guy but he has taken us to a certain level which he cannot take us beyond. In Holland he's known as a good coach, not a GREAT one. Our great club, after the money Levy has made available, deserves better. RANT OVER!!!:bang:


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[UbeAstard]

But deep down didn't we all know they would do it in the end?

We have to give the kids a go against everton and Derby. By that I mean Taarabt and Routledge (who isn't a kid).

If he gets his confidence back, he would be like a new signing for us.

Taarabt will not start neither will he be in the sqaud and I will be surprised if Wayne does either but I think Wayne should be at least on the bench (if he isnt I still wouldnt be telling MJ his job like you are).

Helb though he scored isnt anything special at all and I wouldnt swop anyone we have for him.

[ShelfSide18]

Sunny delight you are a complete clueless negative muppet.

Piss off to Arsenal, you don't deserve Spurs.

[ShelfSide18]

There is only one person to blame for todays result and that's Jol. I sick to death of hearing in the last 2 seasons how good we were in pre-season, i would much rather we have lost ALL the pre-season games as long as it meant we started with 3 points. Enough of this BS about Sunderland having the crowd and Keane behind them, fact is will Utd, Chelsea, Arsenal and Liverpool drop points there....I THINK NOT!!! The team put in a shocking 1st half performance, you would have thought Jol would have fired a rocket up there backsides for that but low and behold we get an even more inept performance in the 2nd half. Shaky in defence, Kaboul apart, clueless in midfield and inept upfront. Sunderland were there for the taking, FFS they just got promoted but we like usual away from home give these lesser sides too much respect. Sunderland will be in a relegation dog fight this season and like usual we have gifted them 3 points. How many of Sunderland's players would make our squad let alone our 1st team.....? Exactly, only Gordan. Sick to death of us bottling it, steel comes from the top and i'm afraid Jol lacks that. I pray to god he proves me wrong but with him in charge all we are looking at is a 5th place finish again. Before everybody starts firing abuse at me look at the simple facts of how much money we have spent in the last 3 years and what return we have had, is that good enough???
Jol is a good coach and a very nice guy but he has taken us to a certain level which he cannot take us beyond. In Holland he's known as a good coach, not a GREAT one. Our great club, after the money Levy has made available, deserves better. RANT OVER!!!:bang:

No i couldn't give a toss about pre season either. But yes Sunderland did have the crowd behind them, have you never heard of the '12th man'? The fact is we could easily have snatched 3 points there. We weren't 'shocking' at all, its just the reaction of someone who does not understand football at all.

I'm also willing to bet the teams you said will drop points there. Didn't West Ham beat Arsenal and Man U twice last season? Sheff Utd beat Arsenal? Chelsea draw at Watford?

We didn't give them too much respect they defended very very well and gave us no room to play at all. Remember they have 11 men there to stop us doing exactly what we want too aswell. No we wern't creative but I felt we were so close to 'clicking' but the intricate passing moves weren't quite there, i'm sure it'll happen against Everton.

And how do you know what Jol did at half time? There's only so much he can do at half time and besides I saw no lack of passion and commitment from the boys at all, it's just the standard response the idiots roll out every time we lose.

Clueless in midfield? Inept up front? Do me a favour. Yes we lacked creativity but that will come. How many goals did we score last season?

Jol will take us on i'm sure of that, we've lost 1 game to a team i fancy will not lose many points at home. I expect 6 points the next 2 games and i wonder what your response would be if we did Man Utd away? They drew at home to Reading. Chelsea conceded 2 at home to Birmingham, Arsenal were lucky not to lose against Fulham at home and Liverpool were hardly convincing. FFS stop pretending to be a 'realist' when you're a negative idiot who decides what you think of games on what you read in the rags or whats said on the tv.

We have 37 games left. Lets see what happens. 5th will not be a nightmare season how about just enjoy the ride eh?