SPURS v EVERTON

[Geez]

SPURS 1 - 3 EVERTON
Gardner.......................... Lescott, Osman, Stubbs

BBC Match Report

Big-spending Tottenham suffered a second successive Premier League defeat as they lost to a determined Everton.

Mikel Arteta was the architect of Everton's win and he set up Joleon Lescott to head in an early opener.

Anthony Gardner nodded in to level but a Leon Osman close-range shot and a deflected Alan Stubbs free-kick before the break put Everton ahead again.

Dimitar Berbatov headed against the bar and Jermain Defoe went close for the home side, who failed to recover. <!-- E SF -->

England's shortage of strikers after Wayne Rooney's injury had given the game an edge as the country's other homegrown forwards aimed to impress watching national team boss Steve McClaren.

Spurs striker Darren Bent and his Everton counterpart Andy Johnson started, while Defoe had to be content with a place on the bench.

Instead, it was Toffees defender Lescott who enhanced his burgeoning claims for a call-up to McClaren's squad as he converted an invitingly-flighted Arteta free-kick.

Spurs almost immediately pulled level when Bent had a shot parried and Tony Hibbert and Joseph Yobo left it to each other to clear.

Berbatov pounced but Yobo recovered quickly enough to block the Bulgarian's effort.

Johnson's industry at the other end saw Everton engineer two promising opportunities but they failed to take advantage and paid the price as Spurs found their passing game.
<!-- S IIMA -->
Lescott undid some of his earlier good work by losing Gardner and the Tottenham centre-back duly headed home.

The visitors did not dwell on the disappointment and quickly regained the lead when Arteta's artistry again led to a goal.

He chipped a cross to the far post and, despite substitute centre-back Ricardo Rocha - on for Younes Kaboul - bravely heading away from goal, Osman latched on to the ball and lashed his shot into the roof of the net.

A dubious free-kick allowed Stubbs to add to Everton's lead on the stroke of half-time when his strike was deflected by Didier Zokora past a flat-footed Paul Robinson.

Spurs were booed off at the interval but started strongly after the break and Berbatov's rattled the bar with a well-timed header.

Everton kept up their 100% start to the campaign and their battling qualities proved too much for a home side who lacked a creative spark.

Spurs boss Martin Jol replaced the ineffective Bent with Defoe to try to turn things around.

Defoe struggled to make an impact as the Toffees consolidated their lead with Johnson, although by no means outstanding, winning the battle of the England strikers.

01 Robinson, 02 Chimbonda, 05 Kaboul, 30 Gardner, 07 Stalteri, 04 Zokora,08 Jenas, 15 Malbranque,10 Keane, 09 Berbatov, 23 Bent

Substitutes
12 Cerny,
18 Defoe,
21 Routledge,
22 Huddlestone,
33 RochaEverton
24 Howard
02 Hibbert
04 Yobo
15 Stubbs
05 Lescott
21 Osman
18 Neville
26 Carsley
06 Arteta
08 Johnson
28 AnichebeSubstitutes
30 Ruddy,
11 McFadden,
16 Jagielka,
19 Nuno Valente,
20 PienaarPlease see announcement at top of front page !!!!!


BBC Live Text
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/foot...xt/default.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/t/tottenham_hotspur/live_text/default.stm)

The Official Site keeps crashing! :shrug:

http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/9546/homespursvseverton453x2gx8.jpg

[ikky]

COYS!:beer:

[spursFanKC]

interesting selection. Would have liked Tarrabat on the bench but this looks like it has more options than on Saturday. Wonder what happened to Tanio?

[davidmatzdorf]

Personally, I think starting with Keane in midfield is a daft idea against Everton, whether he plays left, right or in the hole. Everton will play a 5 man midfield and, the moment we lose the ball, they will swamp us, the fullbacks will bomb forward and feed Johnson to run at our second-string defence.

It might work OK going forward, but who's going to defend when Everton break, unless Zokora and Jenas play so deep that our strikers will get isolated, thus defeating the whole purpose of the formation?

I look forward to being proved wrong.

[18Klinsmann]

interesting selection. Would have liked Tarrabat on the bench but this looks like it has more options than on Saturday. Wonder what happened to Tanio?
Tainio played a game and was injured - as always.
I think this will be tough. Everton's team looks solid and after Saturday I'm not too confident.

[Stavi]

i agree with david matzdorf. this screams desperation and trouble. i've got a bad feeling about this one

[Bilko]

Agree with Davidmatzdorf-
Jol`s starting to make me feel nervous.

[2bearis2do]

Personally, I think starting with Keane in midfield is a daft idea against Everton, whether he plays left, right or in the hole. Everton will play a 5 man midfield and, the moment we lose the ball, they will swamp us, the fullbacks will bomb forward and feed Johnson to run at our second-string defence.

It might work OK going forward, but who's going to defend when Everton break, unless Zokora and Jenas play so deep that our strikers will get isolated, thus defeating the whole purpose of the formation?

I look forward to being proved wrong.

Good insight. I'm pretty nervous about this one too.
COYS

[engcanspur]

The more bad feelings u have the more bad will happen..so try thinking positive and having some faith in Jol and the team...and lets get the bloody job done!!!..come on you spurs!

[truyid]

This is no way near one of our stongest line-up's but we need to have faith in BMJ!! By the way where is players like Kevin-Prince Boatang and Taarabat we need to start playing some of our yongsters, just to see what they can do?

[UbeAstard]

The more bad feelings u have the more bad will happen..so try thinking positive and having some faith in Jol and the team...and lets get the bloody job done!!!..come on you spurs!

All the good feelings in the world dont get me what I want so vice versa, the bad feelings I have wont affect the game either. Hope I'm wrong but 3 forwards have never rewarded us in the prem under Jol. Maybe a pre-season against Birmingham a year ago but never in the prem.

[engcanspur]

I just hope to god that we pull off a good performance...we need to get this season going and of course the sooner the better.

[nav007_2000]

I'm so upset with the performance.

GARDNER is a disgrace. I can't believe jol started him. I'm sick and tired with Jenas. He is so shit he makes savage look good.

Total disgrace. We need a complete change in the midfield
I'm so upset.

[will8587]

Atrocious showing. I'm down right disgusted.

[Bilko]

Lets get this absolutely straight-WE ARE IN TROUBLE.
Don`t give any of that start of the season crap we are gonna be struggling.
Our defence is a shambles-Jol has no idea.

[iluvsteffenfreund]

ha... shit

[KarsenToon]

I guess tha lack of comments says it all.
Disgraceful.

[yidarmy-mtr]

Sunderland 1-0 Spurs
Everton 3-1 Spurs :bang:

Absolutely terrible stars for the yids come u spurs we really can bounce back from this with talent of berba and bent and keano and defoe up front :-)

[parj]

ok i didnt watch the whole match cos luckily i had to go sit in traffic for 2hrs! but i got home for the last 10mins and andy gray said it clearly..... the strikers cant create everything themselves........ i read the match report and it seems most attacking down the wings came from full backs.

in the last 10 mins i saw jenas twice have to run wide to make an option for Robbo...... where the heck was the wide man?....... 17 crosses during the game...... only 5 or 6 from the left........ does that just not show we rely so much on the right so teams know where to mark us cos we refuse to PLAY aleft winger......... i not seen much of tarrabt but im sure given he left footed he might just be able to cross with his left foot

Im sorry, but MJ is paid a lot of money to coach and motivate players and he just doesnt seem to be able to motivate them at the moment cos it seems we dont want to play.

[eastsidef1ava]

Not many dimensions to our attacking play - why were we playing the long ball game (hoooof) at home??

Poor showing overall, espeically by Gardener, Salti and Jenas

[defiant]

That was shocking, I can't even take one positive thing from it. I feel for our strikers having to play with a midfield as bad as that. Top four... not a chance on that performance!

[shoggy33]

defoe and routledge should start against derby IMO, they atleast looked like they cared when they came on, unlike Berbatov who seems to think hes still on holiday. I wasn't an advocate of the whole "we need a leftie" stuff but f*ck me the lack of width has been painfully obvious in the first two games.

[Meds]

No tactics, no creativity, no idea....and after two games, no points. You get what you deserve.

Jol's selection smacked of either desperation or head-in-the-sand ignorance, what reason could be given for the same individuals who failed so obviously last weekend? Waiting nearly 70 minutes to change one striker for another is also no way to change the pattern of a game.

Once again the defence was atrocious - I am sure that Antony Gardner is a perfectly nice young man, but he has no place in the Premier League. And I am neither a hater of Jenas nor Zokora, but it is quite clear they are incapable of playing together to any effect. Am really glad we spent 16.5m on a striker!

It may be soon to press the panic button, but it is coming sharply into focus.

[spurs_viola]

We were unlucky with the 3 goals against us...Tactics was spot on, boys tried their hearts out, Jenas was commanding in midfield as ever, Gardner and Stalteri did well (despite what many of you pricks say here), only the 2nd game - the future's bright the future's lilywhite! If anything this has just made me love and defend the brilliantly consistent BMJ even more! Love it...

[DAVE BUNWORTH]

This is a team of contradictions
Robinson is a shot stopper but hopeless on set pieces
Gardner...hopeless
Zokora..great fitness but no killer pass
Jenas...awful at times yet has a great engine
Stalteri...give me strenght
Keane,Berbatov,Bent,Defoe...all great forwards but need quality midfield support
We have 6 players missing but even when they all return we we still do not have BITE AND CREATIVITY in midfield
Opps I nearly forgot ...no left sided presence in midfield
My worst fears have been proven correct

[1986mattspur1986]

omg jenas is a complete n utter ****!!!! berba was a complete tosser again he really cant b fukd moanin all da tym , defs done mre in the 10mins he had thn da 3 all tho i dint undastand mj takin off darren, i agree with da aboce comment off trouble it was an absolute piss poor performance i dint fink it could b much worse after sat..... but u knw spurs

[nav007_2000]

Routledge played very well when coming on.

I dont understand why Robinson keeps hoofing the ball to Berbatov. He can't do everything. We can't play along the ground.

I'll rather have Ghaly anyday of the week instead of Jenas.
Yes he threw his shirt but Jenas doesn't deserve to wear the shirt. I've had enough of Jol's tactics. When will he see we have no creativity and without Lennon we are shite. We need better players.

[chookz]

Jol out Berba out Keane out Bent out Defoe out Bring back Mido

[UbeAstard]

The people who rate Jenas and knock down the people who question wether he is good enough. Please now from the last two games explain to me the moments he ran the show even for a few minutes, any moments of quality from him, why do you think he deserves a place in a top 6 side? I dont want to make him a scape goat but I have never seen what you others see in him. I have seen what Zakora, and Malbranque have done or tried to do and I know why we need Tanio sometimes but wondered if Jenas is still on the pitch. He did produce a quality ball for Gardners goal to be fair, but that doesnt get him in my 1st team.

[hugefanfromwayback]

What can we say about that heartbreaking display tonight? We were unlucky, in the first half at least. We passed well, with width - Keano and Steed ran as if possessed I thought.

Then a couple of unlucky goals (if we're honest) - If Rocha hadn't have taken out Robbo on the goal line the second wouldn't have happened.

So you get to half time and you think ok we've got nothing to lose, we're not expected to win, show us something. Faint hopes of an epic comeback kickstarting the season murmur in the back of your head.

We start with purpose but stop moving the ball left. Salty's not helping here. Then the master stoke of the day, we take off our target man Bent. For midget mr.selfish Defoe. And as if to slamdunk the error we start playing long balls. hmmm

Then Routledge comes on and looks like a player who can make a few chances happen and if I'm not mistaken his teammates refused to pass to him a couple of times when out wide (getting corners and putting pretty decent crosses in).

There are some major issues here, injuries for sure, we are already in trouble, add Kaboul to that list. But I really don't get MJ at the moment. Besides the glaringly obvious need for a LM we are not trying our impact players in games and most important of all I do not think we are fit enough.

If we have to resort to punting long balls up from the back we are always going to struggle, except perhaps with Bent up there, go figure.

I thought a lot of players looked disinterested or out of touch, Berbs, Defeo, Jenas, Zokora. Get these boys out running laps til they realise the gravity of the situation. I'd rather see our reserve team playing on saturday if they play the whole ninety minutes as a team.

It was most sad to see the way the Lane emptied before the end, christ this was the first home game of the season. Bottom line, we were a bit unlucky, but if we expect to win every game this season in the first half, we will be struggling.

:bang: :bang: :bang: :bang:

[CliffJones]

Can I press the fucking panic button???

[chookz]

If Berba is not having a good game the whole team ain't bring in the reserves I say

[ricardo_archibald]

Hello, I used to be the mellow one on here telling everyone not to worry and calm down (and part of me still wants to think like this)....but...but....BUT this is SO CRAP!!!

1. We miss the likes of Lennon too much, his creativity sparks the rest of the team to play more creatively.

2. We lack confidence big time.

3. Perhaps because our pre-season matches were against crap teams and put us in a false sense of security and now we've been knocked about...welcome to the real world.

4. Our midfield has no new ideas.

5. Our defence looks so weak.

6. Our forwards are all alone, waiting for balls and the longer the wait the longer their confidence goes and their ability to score.

So far so bad, I think Martin Jol made a BIG mistake with 3 forwards and no creative midfield plan and I think the likes of Taraabt should be given a chance...like Lennon did when he was young. Young players have no nerves and like to play and take people on....at least put the likes of Taraabt on the bench.

ONLY POSITIVE: Things can only get better and I think they WILL get better once some of our players are back, but right now it's pretty shite being a Spurs fan !!!

[naumanfaizi]

Jenas was Commanding in this game? Are u kidding me?
Jenas/Zok lack footballing brains.
Keano is not a midfielder.
I guess it would have been harsh on our midfield quartet if Jol overhauled them for this game. He sent them out with something to prove.. and now that they haven't he can bring in Tarabt and Hudd Joke and Zenus.
Btw, did u all catch that slide by zok at the byline? hilarious.

[spursrus]

how can we go from having a decent pre season to this? I am shocked of the lack of effort from our midfield. The defence was not being backed up by midfield players and our strikers weren't given good chances to score. This has to be addressed!

[Gavin_Spurs]

Another desparately disappointing game, four days into the season and fourth place is beginning to look a challenge already. Something needs to change , our lack of creativity in midfield was there for all to see. We appear to have spent millions this summer, and while our squad is "stronger", our first team is no better prepared to beat our potential challengers for fourth/fifth place such as Everton. I worry about the next couple of games, you can see players putting themselves under pressure to correct things which just makes them more likely to make mistakes (as seen in so many misplaced passes). Obviously it is critical we put things right against Derby but with the Man Utd game looming we may have played four and lost three games with Fulham away and Arsenal to follow.

Levy/Comolli and Jol need to identify a suitable signing for Midfield to provide the creativity in order to ensure that this summer's spending does not prove to be a wasted investment, as Andy Gray said, strikers need people to create for them!!

ps. Go easy on me, first time post after ages enjoying watching the debates....

[nate247]

I'm his biggest critic but can anyone tell me what Gardner did wrong today? Thought he had a fairly solid game.

Not gonna push the panic button just yet (would be silly) but a few of my observations are; Zokora... anyone know why we spent £8.5 Million on him? Jenas... same question? Virtually every game I see we seem to just get over run in Midfield and have nobody there able to take the game by the scruff of the neck. Also no leader in the team...

Jol is tactically worse than Sven was for England (and I didn't think that was possible) and when did Paul Robinson turn into the worst Premier League keeper? My old man is an ex England school boy keeper (so played to a high standard up to about 18ish). Now I am not saying he is a fountain of knowledge or a know it all but for a good long while he has been saying great "shot stopper" (at least was) but his positional sense and command of area etc are very poor. Just look at Howard tonight... did everything Robinson didn't.

So many questions and I personally after the last two performances am short of constructive answers.

All I can say is that as Sky Sports pointed out. We are the second highest spenders in the Premier League behind Chelsea in the past 3 seasons (the stats don't lie). I am confident I know of at least 3/4 managers that would be delivering more consistant performances from our talented team by now...

I'm not saying Jol out by any means but ask yourself the question, would another Manager be getting more out of our clearly talented squad / youngsters and why oh why havent our problem areas been addressed for well over 18/20 months now?

Sorry this post is all over the place but I really am not sure what I feel at the minute apart from highly "delusional". I honestly thought we would see progress this season. Instead what we have seen is the return of a "typical" Spurs team... tremendiouly inconsistent!

[AW?]

Our midfield is total shit and i was sure of this last season but was willing to give players like Zokora the benefit of the doubt as it was his first in the prem.

Don't want to sound like a typical fickle Spurs fan here, but we are not up to it in that department.

Lennon wasn't as effective last season as the previous one and i blame that on Carricks departure. His fantastic distribution shows where we are lacking, perhaps we should go with The Hudd. Although not the finished article atleast he can pick out a great pass at times.

The Hudd isn't going to solve everything, and i really don't want to rely on too many kids, but fuck it get Adel on there on the left. At least he's unpredictable, possibly to his team mates as well but god we need something fresh. If Lennon's not fit for the next game get him on that left for fucks sake, perhaps playing Steed in his natural position for once.

[tommyt]

At times we were great tonight. Derby will get slaughtered.

[gloryspur]

JENAS....Arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrgggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhhh!!!!England International this bloke isn't even fit to be a Faroe Island international! Why persist with him Jol? Is it in his contract that he must start every game above all the other midfielders we have and what about Tarrabt this bloke was a sensation in pre-season and now he can't even make the bench!!! Something is clearly wrong! This is a god awful start and worse when you've spent the money we have cos the worse thing is unlike Everton there is no TEAM just individuals and it stinks!!!

As for the match you can see it, I can see it but Jol is blind to it SET PEICES! Every f-ing time as soon as they lined up their third I said this is going in cos that's how clear it is to me now..although I acknowledge it did take a deflection but what about the first goal! The same old f-ing story time and time again. What the f do they do in training? I'm sick of this deja-vu and I notice the injuries are piling up again! Really pissed off with tonight and back to the laughing stock days!!!

I really think Jol could be in troubled waters over the next 4 or 5 games + we have to face Manure it just gives you worries! I'm a big fan of his but tonight picking virtually the same team it made shudder at how inept it was, it desperately needed shaking up like Jol does! What do we do at training just rely on Berbs, Bent, Defoe and Keane to shoot at goal on their own because the midfield can't string a pass to them and oh fuck it was just all wrong and so bloody frustrating!!! :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:

The laughs at our expense I can't bear them tomorrow but stay strong my fellow yids!! Prey we bounce back immediately after this COYS!!! P.S Final thought: Has Robbo been on Mido's diet from last year...maybe they all have! And Berbs tonight just :cry:

[navster]

I have supported spurs for too long. I give up on our overpaid underperforming team. I am sure Billy Nicholson would have kicked arse. OK Flair but no grit, no bulls. Forget it. I,ve had enough.

Sack jol. Let the critcism bring.

Bring me Mourinho, Ferguson, or even Wenger, at least they are winners.

Raineri was likeable like Jol, but is not of standard to bring us to next level. I now predict midtable at bext.

Severly pissed of spurs fan!!:bang: :bang: :bang:

[parj]

for me zokora and jenas can shoulder all the blame, but when they have no options in attack cos malbranque and keane arent out wide then the opposition know to flood the middle and spurs will be snookered!!!

we have to play with a genuine winger every game...... if tarrabt isnt ready then why the fuck did he play against west ham last season?

and will people please not talk about pre-season...... i was disgusted by our fixtures in pre-season..... we didnt play a single tough team..... how do u get the competitive touch back when u playing a bunch of roy of the rover teams?

my prediction for sat...... if we dont have at least one GENUINE winger we are fucked and derby are going to be thinking its xmas early

[Bonjour]

You gotta laugh aintcha...

[CliffJones]

I want to hear what BMJ has to say, but no heart takes me back to the late 60's and early 70's. I saw Jimmy turn games with 5 minutes of effort, I saw big Chiv at his best and worst, what stops them playing?? The top four are hungry and you can see it, we have just eaten a big meal and are waiting to pick up a shed load of money.
I want to see some honesty and value for money from the playing and coaching staff.
Is there something going on in the background we can't see???

[Jonesey]

OK let's not forget that Everton played well. They defended exceptionally except for our goal, just like Sunderland did.

BUT ... and apologies if I'm stating the obvious ...

1. Again our midfield let us down with the exception of Malbranque and it doesn't look like it's going to get any better anytime soon.

The inspiration for them going forward was Arteta - the sort of player we simply don't have in midfield.

Although Prince-Boateng is supposed to be an attacking midfielder he is not a great crosser of the ball. Unfortunately neither is Lennon so we don't even have that to look forward to. Routledge did well under difficult circumstances i think - he needs a consistent run in the team to be better though and Jol doesn't look like he's going to do that.

We must start playing Taarabt, Huddlestone AND Routledge if we want them to get better but it's hard to say how they can slot in considering Jol simply will not drop Jenas.

2. Defensively we are in major trouble. With Ledley, Ekotto and Lee out for at least a month and Kaboul, Dawson and Bale now out for a couple of weeks we only have Rocha, Gardner, Chimbo and Stalteri available.

Maybe playing Rocha and Hudd in CM and Gardner (left-footed) at LB and Chimbo at RB is a better bet because Stalteri is just not good enough on either side.

3. But then, again, who will get forward and create anything? Taarabt and Routledge are worth a go but they are largely untried in this team. We need a playmaker, plain and simple and JJ and DZ have never been and will never be that.


I hate to say it but the answer has to lie in the transfer market but it just doesn't look like we're going to be spending too much cash anytime soon except maybe Davies - who would be a welcome addition considering the circumstances. We need another CM player and another left winger.

I also hate to be doom-and-gloom this early in the season but I can't see the next couple of weeks getting any better. We just have to hope Derby, Man U, Fulham, Arsenal and Bolton have bad days at the office like we have and then maybe we can get to mid-table by the end of September.

Hmn, maybe not then ...

We are in trouble, no messing.

[chookz]

I won't be surprised if we only nick a point against Derby

[2bearis2do]

Time to get brutal with this inept performance.

Robinson, not at fault really.

A reserve back four was painfully evident tonight and will cost BMJ big time. We've 6 players injured ahead of Gardner/Stalteri and Rocha. So what can BMJ do? His starting back 4 would be a million miles away from tonights:

Chimb/King/Kaboul/Lee

Not a bad back four at all and with time they could gel into quite a unit. We need that solid back four foundation. So what can he do? You can't play unfit players and if thats all we've got in reserve, well, we're screwed for the first month of the season.

So we need to buy.

Personally I thought AG had a decent game and is a better left back than he is a CD.
I'm not sold on CHIMB. He really seems disinterested. Sell him to Chelski and invest the 10mil in a very decent right back.

Midfield: JJ and Zok does NOT work. One or the other but not both together. They are too similiar as players. Full stop.

I'm also crossing over to the JJ Basher brigade tonight and have no intention of advocating any of his so called abilities on this site again. Unless BMJ tries him without Zok and we can see what he is really made of. (It might be the worst idea I've ever had but its his last chance)
Stop playing Keane on either wing. Just stop it. Thats not his position. always play players in their 'natural' position. Thats rubbish management and team selection. IMO
Steeeeed had a decent game IMO

We can't create. Thats just appalling at this level with the quality of attack we've got. BMJ has to grab his nuts and go with at least two from Tarabt, Steed, Wayne or Hudd. At the moment we only have one of these on at any one time. at least Wayne added a bit of spark tonight.

The same goes for Defoe, at least he was up for it. BMJ has a major problem on his hands, he CAN NOT play 3 up front. It painfully doesn't work. Frankly they get in each others space and none seem to be able to play 'their own natural' game.

It says a lot that the best players (for me) tonight were AG and Steed.

How much better off would that team have looked with a Petrov on the left and a Matt Taylor or Baines behind him?

Who indeed does decide who ultimately should be bought by the club? Is it BMJ? is it DC? What happened to buying the finishing piece of a jigsaw that actually fits into place?

BMJ has some serious work to do before the end of this transfer window and not just on the pitch.

[supertedley]

Ok, it's only the second game of this season...but it's following a pattern from previous ones.

We have got to get someone dynamic in midfield to spot a pass, change the angles etc.

And this has been glaringly evident from the past few seasons - Robinson=Shot stopper - his set piece play is CRAP and he must give everyone round him the jitters when he comes, he goes back, he comes again.

As I said...very frustrating to see it.

[md404]

come on guys we support spurs we should be used to this! all my life as a spurs fan i've put up with mediocrity and i've always stood by them with as much passion and support win or lose. and i will continue to stand by them as we all will, and i think the players need to gain some of the passion that us fans have, if they do then maybe we could achieve something! coys.

[Oz_Spurs]

I know that there are alot of posts starting this way tonight but here goes, I am not calling for Jol out. However what i will say is I wonder if we are seeing glimpses of Jol's inexperience of managing big names or at least big money names......the expection on him now is massive, people keep talking about Fergie and how long it took him, but he is an anomoly(sic) who's name can be mentioned in the same breath as Stein or Buzzby. In my wlldest most optimistic dreams I would never think Jol would bring the same results as AF has done at Utd, anway back to my original point Jol unquestionably has a massive heart, i think he has showed that tonight by sticking by the players who let him down so badly at the weekend.However the bulk of his experience is working on limited budget and over achieving, now he has shit loads of expensive players at his finger tips and I am wondering if he is struggling to kick on to another level. We should stick with him but I wonder if he needs a more tactically astute number 2, another him if you like but more tactics than passion......I am just think with some seeming tactical definciencies and questionable subs etc, why exactly is Houghton bringing to the party...is he not saying hang on a minute Martin, we tried bringing dafoe on with 15 minutes to go plenty of times last season with mixed results lets maybe bring on a more attacking midfielder and see what happens then?!?!?!?!?

just a thought

[Parmenio]

well that was disappointing.

However the defense looked as patched up as any time last year. Left back was ruthlessley exploited, and generally there was a lack of coordination at the back.

The main problem in this game was the first and second goals. To conceed the first goal right off the bat was really poor. Salteri gave away a stupid free kick, and we defended it weakly (though good delivery). Sound a bit similar to last year anyone?

Second goal came from the left again. Thought Stalteri should have got a lot closer to Arteta, but was plainly too afraid he'd be skinned on the byline so hung back, giving arteta time to make another great delivery... then we got unlucky with a good header from Rocha which unfortunatly took out Robinson, and dropped the ball to Osman for a good finish.

Third goal was just unlucky. When you see it from the back you can see that Robinson reacted quickly to the flight of the ball, but the deflection changed the ball direction from where he was heading. It looked like he might have dived for it, but not sure he could have made it one he change position, even if he hadnt been caught with his weight on the wrong foot.

The problem with playing Everton is that when they are two ahead you are nearly never going to pull two back. We had 64% of possesion in the game, but there was no room up front, for threaded balls. We needed to be a bit more direct, but even that would have been real difficult as Everton never commited forward at all. Impossible to recover from really... if I hadn't seen spurs make some equally miraculous escapes from such positions last year, I would have had no hope at all.

So yes it was disappointing, but I was still mighty annoyed at the twats that started booing. They are probably the ones that think we could just fix everything by swapping keepers, putting Tabarat on for Zakora, Huddlestone for Jenas, Defoe for one of the forwards, and sundry other knee-jerk reactions, that would leave the team in much worse shape.

Yes we need small tweaks, and probably some rebalancing of the midfield, but again I felt we conceeded soft goals, and if you think about it, there were 6 defenders out that would have been playing before 3 of the players we had on the pitch at the end of the first half. That's one and a half back fours.

[morty]

not being funny but even the top 4 teams would concede goals if they played there 4th and 5th central defenders and a 4th choice left back who's a right back when none are good enough and has for midfield we will never get there with jenas and malbranque who are quite simply shite and not good enough

[StokeSpur]

Well i await all the valid reasons from the 'i wana suck Jols cock brigade', on the subjects... Keano is a midfielder... and... why Zoko is our new left back... let the bullshit begin...

Anyone see how good Routledge was tonight? anyone see how much of a threat we became down the right since he came on?
we could be like that all the time if we played wingers instead of CM's and Strikers there, and also we could be as good down the left (for all you 'we dont need a leftie' ppl) if we just managed to spend a little of our budget on a left winger.

hmmm, thinking about it i want to be popular so i'll finish with... Mind you, 'its only the second game of the season'

lets wait till we play port vale in the cup till we pass judgement.

This is getting embarasing.

[matty182]

this is sooo fucking negative but i also cant understand keano playing in midfield, why adel wasnt even on the bench and i know the hudd is sometimes a bit slow but i think he could have made a difference..........i also thought practicaly every decision went Nevertons way..i thought we didnt actually play too bad at times and that as soon as they got the third they wasted time with "head" injuries..if scousers wasted that much time in streets im sure the crime rate would be at least halfed in this country!!!

[matty182]

also chimbo looks like he plays shite on purpose!!!

[tingy98]

just got back from the game..... i stayed right till the end....

rage and anger hasn't really past yet despite a long walk to the car!!

i'm not going to start talking tactics or players but trying to look at when we're going to start picking up points...

our next games:

derby (h)
man united (a)
fulham (a)
arsenal (h)
bolton (a)

very worrying.... bets on JJ starting against Derby?

[kicked]

One week ago everyone one was rating us...even Arse fans...
Now they are slating us!

No excuses, we shouldn't have lost! If we are to live up to the hype! We are under pressure to show what we can do and we were left wanting!

We have a strike force 2nd to none....but a 2nd rate team!

1 goal in 2 matches isn't good enough is it!?

[blochuk]

Live and work in New York and and was watching at a bar downtown and it got so bad by the end that people were laughing at the end.Was wondering why I left work to watch such a frustrting performance(if my boss is reading this then I could be in trouble)

This is no laughing matter and the bottom line is that of you are going to play Keane in Midfield that says it all. Play him in the hole behind Berba and Bent from the start is a different matter.

It all starts and ends with the midfield. All the money spent and a midfield of Zokora and Jenas and Malbranque and Keane explains our trouble. I can see it and everyone on here can see it but Jol and Houghton cant....do me a favour!!

Supporting Spurs is hard enough let alone when I am 3500 miles away. Come on Jol..Huddlestone/Taarabt/KPB/Routledge are desperate to prove themselves so give them a go. Not all at once but at least one of them fom the start!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[tony0379]

After the match
JOL "Come on JJ shuck my ballsh"
JJ "Will it get me into the starting line up against Derby baby?"
JOL "Ofcoursh my shun"
JJ "Oh alright then"

[liono]

After the match
JOL "Come on JJ shuck my ballsh"
JJ "Will it get me into the starting line up against Derby baby?"
JOL "Ofcoursh my shun"
JJ "Oh alright then"

And I thought he played cos he had naked pictures of Jol's wife!

[parj]

just heard jol say he was pleased with us not conceding in the second half........ THATS WHY WE ARE SO SHIT........ THATS THE MENTALITY SUNDERLAND AND DERBY SOULD HAVE... not a team chasing 4th place

[GazzasBelly]

Bad result, tho 1st half we played very well apart from getting caught out for the goals, be be honest tho all you tossers make me wonder why i come on this site. All the fucking moaning about players, results, transfers......blah blah.

[StuckinPoland]

every team that has ever won the Premiership has had creativity from the wings. in 93 united had kanchelskis and giggs. 95 saw wilcox and ripley providing shearer and sutton for blackburn. the arse have always had people comfortable on the wings. chelsea did it with robben/cole/duff/wright-phillips and man utd did it last year too.

jol has taken us from mid-table obscurity to the 5th best team in the country in 2 full seasons. he's now assembled a squad that is better than any of us can probably remember.

but that is all we are. we're a squad. we've become the club version of england. very good players covering most positions except the left hand side.

i'll admit that losing lee, bale and ekotto has hurt us. no-one would disagree. but i'm afraid i wont accept that as an excuse right now.

whatever formation we played tonight, and after watching the whole game i am still not sure what it was, it wont break us into the top four. we're the best of the rest and rightfully so but that is all we are. and though uefa cup qualification is good, we need to be better.

rocha proved tonight that he's clearly better than gardner. stalteri is also no left back. EVERY goal conceded this season has come from attacks down our left hand side. we can claim to be unlucky tonight with the way the goals went in but again, not a good enough excuse for me.

jenas, for the umpteenth time proved he isnt good enough for a top 6 team. but, he isnt the only one to have played poorly. and, despite the poor performances of a lot of players over the last 4 days, the person to blame for this is jol.

his tactics are the sort of thing my 14 year old cousin would use on football manager 2007 (and even then i think it's harsh on my cousin). if you're not winning, throw on another attacker is just childish. has he been taking lessons from mcclaren?

jol, for all his good parts, has proved to be inflexible with substitutions and to my knowledge, has never positively influenced a game by making an unenforced substitution.

we'll probably beat derby this saturday. we'd better as it's my birthday. but it wont cover up the issue that as of now, we dont have the personnel to make a run at 5th, let alone 4th. i dont care how much he costs, we need a left winger and quickly. i'd even have matty taylor from pompey.

all is not lost. the problems we have are definitely solvable. but i am afraid i am not sure jol is the man to do it. i'm not saying we should sack him yet, but i have serious reservations in his ability to take tottenham to the next level.

i hear roy keane was a spurs fan as a kid? but that's probably wishful thinking.

COYS !!! i still love you.

team for saturday.

robinson,
chimbonda, rocha plus one, someone plucked from the crowd or from teletext.
routledge, huddlestone, zokora, taarabt
berbatov, defoe

ps - i have started calling chimbonda "samson". i hope i dont have to explain why :)

[liono]

Bad result, tho 1st half we played very well apart from getting caught out for the goals, be be honest tho all you tossers make me wonder why i come on this site. All the fucking moaning about players, results, transfers......blah blah.

Well if you're happy with mediocrity.... go support someone else.

[tingy98]

Well i await all the valid reasons from the 'i wana suck Jols cock brigade', on the subjects... Keano is a midfielder... and... why Zoko is our new left back... let the bullshit begin...

Anyone see how good Routledge was tonight? anyone see how much of a threat we became down the right since he came on?
we could be like that all the time if we played wingers instead of CM's and Strikers there, and also we could be as good down the left (for all you 'we dont need a leftie' ppl) if we just managed to spend a little of our budget on a left winger.

hmmm, thinking about it i want to be popular so i'll finish with... Mind you, 'its only the second game of the season'

lets wait till we play port vale in the cup till we pass judgement.

This is getting embarasing.

agree with routledge and although lacking confidence.... he managed to put in some threatening balls..... just wished that Bent was on the end of them instead of Defoe!!!

[littleAaronlennon]

You know at times our supporters with there stupid and moronic comments actually disgust me quite literally. How the hell can a team beat there opponents considering there finished just below us in the league table last season, bearing in mind we had 7 fucking players out, and a understudy to Ledley and Daws who limped off after 18 minutes.

Sometimes people can only see the things that are taklng place in front of them without looking at the bigger picture, just a question for all you idiots. If you take any three central defenders out of any team in the world then it's only natural they will look extremely weak afterall it stands to reason let alone having three left backs missing too.

Yes i can understand your disappointment at our shocking start to the season, i'm hughely disheartned also as we finally believed this was the season that we would overtake those poxy Gunners. Yet i refuse to cast a negative opinon on Jol untill at least eight league games into the season, when hopefully he will have some of his key players back. It's just rotten luck that's made us start the season so poorly indeed i believe Tottenham Hotspur football club is cursed, you only have to cast your minds back to two season's ago in that monumental game at Upton Park, yet that's a story for another time. KEEP THE FAITH MY FELLOW YIDS FOR FUCK'S SAKE.

[YiddoJames]

The problem is that Jenas is NOT and never will be a creative midfielder. He is not Carrick. He's not going to spray beautiful passes around the pitch and dictate play or dribble past people. He is a box to box player who covers lots of ground, makes blocks and tackles, contributes goals and does the general dirty work that someone in that position has to do. Or at least that's what he's meant to do! Whether he has done in the last 2 games is another matter.

I've defended him many times and have to admit I'm also losing patience but not specifically with him, but with the midfield in general! Zokora is also NOT a creative player and does many of the same time things Jenas is supposed to do.

I thought, given time, the 2 of them could prove a good partnership but have lost all faith in this happening. They are too similar.

It was embarrassing how bad the midfield looked tonight. Playing Keane on the right was never going to work whilst Malbranque (another player I usually defend) had an average game at best. It was a mess, a shambles and MUST be addressed very quickly.

First move, play Huddlestone. Of the 2, I'd probably drop Zokora because at least Jenas might come up with a goal. We desperately need Lennon back but meantime, despite his lack of experience and the fact he is still very raw, I can't see any other option than giving Taraabt a chance.

Make a choice about which 2 strikers to play and see how this new, younger midfield perform. It can't be any worse surely!!

ps. I can't believe how awful Chimbonda's passing was although the team in general were apalling in this respect.

[YiddoJames]

ps - i have started calling chimbonda "samson". i hope i dont have to explain why :)

I know exactly what you mean!! The same seemed to happen last year with Mido. Another worrying sign! Get those locks back!

[GazzasBelly]

Well if you're happy with mediocrity.... go support someone else.

Who said i was happy you prick?

[Klinsmann33]

I really wanna see the prince in the team

I think he can turn around our midfield, bit of creativity and bite.

lets jus hope he can play as well as he can talk

thats if jol will give him a chance....

[BigAl]

Just got in from the game which I left ten minutes early - can't believe I stayed that long watching that rubbish.... We are currently worse than West Ham were last year and look what happened to them. I know we have some very important players to come back - lets hope they make the difference!!!

Everton are long ball merchants with only one creative player. They lumped it up front and chased the second ball - and it took us to pieces.

They stopped us crossing by closing us down, we let them cross for fun. They win.

Keane, my god. He frustrates as a striker as he plays in midfield and isolates the lone striker. He plays in midfield and hasn't got a clue - unless running accross the pitch with the ball, out of position, getting in other peoples' way is the new way to play.............

Can't wait for Saturday!!!

[sparkle]

What a crap display and all the people who blame injuries should have a look at the size of the everton squad and the fact that they had Cahill and the new buy Baines out but still played with cohesion and passion, something we are lacking.

[battspur]

If These past 2 games were an exercise in showing how poor one player is. & demonstrating how he should never play for us again, then I could live with it !
But thats not the case!!! , as Jenas is always a 1st team selection !!
His position is pivotal in the sucess of the team !!!!!
I do not expect anything when he is playing !
2 very very poor games. I dont think he would now get into another premiership side.
Martin Jol, we love you; but Clive Allen might just do a better job !! ,so I hope you will sort it.
A bit more positive next time, & a bit of attilude please !

[sunnydelight786]

Just got in from the game, lost for words...I said after Saturdays humiliating defeat for the first time in public that Jol has taken us as far as he can. With him in charge we cannot go any further than 5th or a cup run (until we meet anyone half decent). He has not addressed our LM problem, keeps putting square pegs in round holes and does'nt learn from his mistakes. He's afraid to drop his fav players too. Before i start getting abused by everyone let me say after spending £70m odd in the last 2 summers our team has gone backwards from 2005/6. He should have been replaced in the summer with a TOP coach, a proven winner. As he was'nt it seems it will be a seaon of underachievement again this season.:evil:

[st@rbug]

Its times like this that i wish i didnt like football. I cant just decide to support another club, jeez im stuck with Spurs, and i cant help loving football. Tonight the club is a disgrace, im sick to death of them all, the player, Jol, Levey the whole fucking lot. But, like a prick ill dust myself off tomorrow, and pretend to myself we will sumday be more than just a mediocre , living in the past football club in our very blue 35,000 only capacity ground.

Says a lot, over the past 3 seasons we have bought loads of midfield players yet not one is really good enough to make us progress. Zakora was supposed to be good, and if Chelsea or Arsenal had bought him then im sure he wud be making headlines, but no, this is Tottenham Hotspur, we buy good players and turn them into Mr average . Negative post yup, prolly wont help anything, but im that upset about our start, this at least makes me feel half a yard better.

[bones82]

FUCK!!!!

Ok, unlucky on the 2nd and 3rd goal although total avoidable.
Don't run into you keeper Rocha.
Don't stick your foot out and flick the ball around your keeper Zokora (I think).


And we were unlucky from that chance that hit the post.


I wouldn't mind so much if we had played well and Sunderland and Everton had just out played us but we just playing shit.

AND STOP GIVING THE BALL AWAY JENAS, YOU NEED DROPPING AFTER THE LAST TWO PERFORMANCES. Plus why can't you cross the ball higher than one foot, give it some lift to get past the defender.
And I can only think that Berbatov was trying to show Jenas how to give the ball some height when he skied it over the cross bar, normally that would have gone in

BUT WHERE THE FUCK ARE THE GOALS FOR TOTTENHAM!!!

1 Goal scored this year by a defender, and by Gardner for FUCK SAKE!!!
Well done Gardner, made up for your defensive mistakes of last game with todays goal. :bowdown:


STOP PLAYING 4-3-3, and Keane as a winger isn't 4-4-2



Does anyone else remember Jol saying this is Routledge chance to shine while Lennon is injured, well sorry Routledge you may as well pack your bags since even when we are crying out for some wingers your just left on the bench.




How can you play Jenas and Zokora AGAAAAINNNNNN!!!

STILL NO FUCKING WINGERS, does anyone read this!!

:bang::bang::bang::bang::bang::bang::bang::bang::b ang::bang::bang::bang::bang::bang:




Berbatov Defoe

Taarbart Huddlestone Zokora Routledge

Stalteri Gardner Rocha Chimbonda

Robinson

Get fit soon:
Bale
King
Kaboul

Dawson
King
Lennon

AND BUY A LEFT WINGER!!!!! Malbranque will not do.


:bang::bang::bang::bang::bang::bang::bang::bang::b ang::bang::bang::bang::bang::bang::bang::bang::ban g::bang::bang::bang::bang::bang::bang::bang::bang: :bang::bang::bang::bang::bang::bang::bang::bang::b ang::bang::bang::bang::bang::bang::bang::bang::ban g::bang::bang::bang::bang::bang::bang:




I can't believe how shit our midfield has been and we are missing only one player.

WE WANT HUD
WE WANT HUD
WE WANT HUD

[phatfreddy]

Just arrived home after watching another lack lustre performance at the lane. All those strikers and no service, it's enough to make a grown man weep.No width, no midfield, Jenas is a player who needs to touch bench for a while, for his own safety.Right going to prepare myself for the usual piss taking i'm going to have to endure all day tomorrow.

[melonhead]

Haven't posted in ages but like the rest of you I am dissapointed with this result and with the performance. The points made about the defence and midfield are true. Weak and uncreative but at the same time you have to accept the fact that we are massively under-strength due to weird injuries to key players.
I fully expect that we will recover but in the meantime I would also like to take the opportunity to slag unmercifully JJ and Zokora. Just not good enough today.
However, as they say class is permanent form is temporary so I'm sure they'll both come good - perhaps just not in the same team at the same time.
To sum up then, balls to the start of the season and here's to things looking up.

[SelbYido]

I'm going to do everyone a favour, like everyone else should have done & wait til I'm rational again before posting what I think of the game...

...Except for the anti-Jenas brigade. IMO he hit some very good passes - LONG, FORWARD passes today but got caught out on a couple of occasions when he dwelt on the ball too long. I think that is a reasonable opinion. I await the usual retarded tirades.

Other than that I'll leave it until I've regained some FUCKING PERSPECTIVE!!!

I suggest you do the same.

[SelbYido]

JJ's set-pieces were shite though, I'll definitely give you that...

[liono]

Who said i was happy you prick?

The fact you deem peoples comments as moaning would suggest you're pleased with what you you saw.

You said you wonder you come on this site.... so do I. You have no clue about football if you think we played well at all 2day.

BTW..I'm not going to stoop to your insults either :grin:

[themightymaccas]

In my view, the problem is that the team does not have the foundations, correct.

Robinson may be a great shot stopper but does not command his penalty area. He is too indecisive and his lack of positional awareness is too often exposed. He rarely comes for crosses, free kicks or corners. This in my view is a fundamental cause behind the poor defensive displays seen all too frequently. Consequently the confidence of the defenders is undermined and their performances too often look nervous. This is compounded by the fact that, with the current spate of injuries, they lack the familiarity with each others game and positional organisation that playing regularly brings. Some too have questionable ability - Chimbonda to some extent and Stalteri in particular were noticeably poor tonight and both were responsible for unnecessary impetuous challenges - one of which led directly to the first goal - when patience and common sense was called for. In Stalteri's case playing out of position is not an acceptable excuse To play at this level he should have the ability t play out of position. The worrying aspect is that, even when all the first choice defenders are fit again, on the evidence of last season, defending will still not inspire confidence.

The fundamental lack of confidence in the defence permeates throughout the team which puts added pressure on the midfield and forwards, firstly to help out and secondly to score more goals than the defence concedes. However since both the balance and the ability in midfield is (and has been for some time) questionable, the defence does not receive the help and protection needed and the forwards lack the service. Malbranque is too pedestrian and Zokora and Jenas run but to little or no effect and lack the creativity and quickness of thought and action needed at this level. Consequently, for the most part, the forwards have to create their own chances, invariably through some individual brilliant piece of skill.

Fortunately, there is no doubting the ability of the forwards. However Jol has inflicted pressure on himself, knowing he has to keep them happy and consequently has further unbalanced the team in his attempts to achieve this - witness the playing of Keane out of position tonight which beggared belief.

From the fans perspective, the real frustration is that the deficiencies that are all too evident now (and, again, have been for some time), even allowing for the current spate of injuries, should have been sorted out pre-season against sterner opposition than that provided in the largely ambassadorial trip to South Africa.

No doubt things will improve when the injured players are fit again. But, until then, some difficult decisions need to be taken and it will be interesting to see if Jol and Hughton are men enough to take them. Otherwise the season may be over before it has even begun in terms of premier/champions league aspirations.

[spurs2dn]

What's all this name calling and insults? This is suppose to be a COMMUNITY. Discussion/debate was the idea wasn't it? Has the level come to that?

[spiderniall]

is the real spurs team still on holiday? was martin jol cloned in SA? i have never understood why we parted with 8mil british pounds for that babyfaced piece of sh*te jenas. what does he ever do? i bet we wouldnt even get 4mil for him. dreadfully unlucky you say for the goals???? piss poor defending, you can rant and rave about how trust DC and MJ this, TG is good, SIGN A FLIPPIN LEFT FOOTED MIDFIELDER, SIGN A CREATIVE MIDFIELDER OR GIVE THE YOUNGBUCKS A CHANCE, HAVE THE PLUMS TO DROP OUR PATHETIC NUMBER 8, GIVE JD AND WAYNE A CHANCE NOT WITH 10MINS TO GO!

I am rather irate! im usually calm! but losing the everton and sunderland is not the way to go with a game agains Manure coming up! i sense another 4-0 drubbing coming along! the fact that 4 games into the season we could be sitting on 1 or 3 points. this is not good enough. i am abosolutely gutted, never been this irate about spurs ever

[liono]

I'm going to do everyone a favour, like everyone else should have done & wait til I'm rational again before posting what I think of the game...

...Except for the anti-Jenas brigade. IMO he hit some very good passes - LONG, FORWARD passes today but got caught out on a couple of occasions when he dwelt on the ball too long. I think that is a reasonable opinion. I await the usual retarded tirades.

Other than that I'll leave it until I've regained some FUCKING PERSPECTIVE!!!

I suggest you do the same.

If you think Jena hit some "hit some very good passes - LONG, FORWARD passes today"... then

I suggest you actually watch the game.....

Cos i don;t know what you were watching.

[fanspurs1]

get a grip the lot of you's....!!!!! were goin to beat derby....lose to manu...draw against fulham nd beat arse...we'll b fine...there's 36 games to go...keep the faith.....tottenham till i die....yid army...:clap: :clap: :clap:

[littleAaronlennon]

Sunny Delight read my post and answer the question ? how can any team cope in our current predictment without three of there first choice central defenders and left backs playing. If you or anyone else can answer that question for me then admitely your critiscism of Jol is justified but if you can't stop talking such bollocks.

[TheDutchMaster]

Ive said it before... I say it again...

Whats the point of having 4 quality strikers when there is no one to pass the ball to them???

We spend all this money and yet there is nothing from midfield!

What makes me really sick... is these deluded spurs fans who think we have enough quality in our squad!

Robbo (yes robbo), Gardner (junk), Rocha (ok), Stalteri (not his fault playing LB), Jenas (useless), Steed (headless chicken)

IMO the above would not make it onto the sub bench!

I have to blame Robbo for the first goal... I just dont understand this guy! He's 6ft4 and is scared to come off his line... I believe anything crossed or thrown into the 6 yard box should be goalkeepers ball.

The second goal was comical... You see that down hackney marshes!

I cannot be bothered to write anymore...

Goodnight! God bless!

[stoddle]

we still seem to be a collection of good individuals and not a good team.

[tobyb24]

Ive just got home from the game left after 70 mins couldnt take anymore. That was one of the worst Spurs performances i have witnessed and I was there in Hoddle era when we lost to Fulham and Sunderland. The players lost the plot after the break.My worst fears are coming true we spend 16 million on a striker which we dont really need and then we dont really strephen the areas of the team that need strephing such as defence and midfeild. I appriciate with our defence that we are missing our 1st 3 choice central defenders and all 3 left backs but the cover we have isnt good enougth. Gardner is like bamby on ice he is just dreadful yes he has been a loyal servant to the club but its time he went! Our central mifeild is awful and why MJ refuses to play with any natural wingers

[stoddle]

watching a different Jenas im afraid selb

[inbetweendreams]

the community is turning into the tottenham dressing room after another dire performance. anyone else supprised by martins post match comments? the fact we ddnt concede in the second half is not a positive step forward.

[Jonesey]

Good post.

[littleAaronlennon]

Jenas is absolutely diabolic and should be dropped i for one will vouch for that for me his a poorer version of Frank Lampard vastly overated surely Tom Huddlestone is a better alternative. By the way how many Tottenham players after that performance can say they played well i say two Malbranque and Zokora who was our best player in my opinion.

Sleb Yido did you read my post from earlier reading the issue with Gardner and Stalteri it's in the post we were discussing earlier team news for tonight's game.

[SelbYido]

If you think Jena hit some "hit some very good passes - LONG, FORWARD passes today"... then

I suggest you actually watch the game.....

Cos i don;t know what you were watching.

I did watch the game. I recall a couple of accurate, raking cross-field balls to Steed & a couple going right towards Keane. There you go specific examples. The fact is, I made a specific point of watching Jenas closely because I knew he'd come in for stick regardless of how he played. The worst part of his performance was the fact that he (as usual) dwelt on the ball too long on 2 or 3 occasions & got lost the ball. I was watching - that's what I saw. Fucking sue me.

[liono]

Sunny Delight read my post and answer the question ? how can any team cope in our current predictment without three of there first choice central defenders and left backs playing. If you or anyone else can answer that question for me then admitely your critiscism of Jol is justified but if you can't stop talking such bollocks.

I agree it's difficult with the injuries in defence, but I don't think thats weher our main problems have been for last two games. Granted the full backs have been crap but the Gardener & Rocha weren't too bad today and Kaboul was good at Sunderland.

Our biggest problem is the Midfield and the gripes at BMJ is due to his faliure to address the following obvious issues...

Jenas and Zokora will never control midfield and are not creative enough to supply the strikers. The only ever pass the ball sideways which they can't even do with no wingers!!!

No midfield = no supply to the strikers.

[fanspurs1]

we are goin down we are goin down....!!!!:clap: :clap: :clap:

[liono]

I did watch the game. I recall a couple of accurate, raking cross-field balls to Steed & a couple going right towards Keane. There you go specific examples. The fact is, I made a specific point of watching Jenas closely because I knew he'd come in for stick regardless of how he played. The worst part of his performance was the fact that he (as usual) dwelt on the ball too long on 2 or 3 occasions & got lost the ball. I was watching - that's what I saw. Fucking sue me.
We'll have to agree to disagree on that one, as I can remeber at least 4 occassion where he gave the ball away with no pressure on him. That is not what we need from a CM if we want to be a top 6 side.

[leetotty]

Last season we lost to Everton at home and they scored 2 with 10 men. This year we scored and they only scored 3 with 11 men...Whats all the fuss about, we have improved..

In all seriousness, we looked all at sea today. I cannot work out if its due to the injuries/changes in defence; the team being unsettled due to the new signings or the weight of expectation on their shoulders.

[jordas]

Robinson - the worst goalkeeper in the world!
Defence - do we have defence??
Midfield - our midfield is a joke...especialy Jenas
Forward - Keane, Berbatov, Bent, Defoe all great but whats the sence to score 3 and to receive 5??
And at the end our manager Martin Jol - ....well i hope that he is not going to be anymore our manager, because with him our top will be 5th. place...Before this 2 matches i was dreaming about champions leag....now i am worried about championship!?

[spiderniall]

jenas out

[peter123]

I'm so upset with the performance.

GARDNER is a disgrace. I can't believe jol started him. I'm sick and tired with Jenas. He is so shit he makes savage look good.

Total disgrace. We need a complete change in the midfield
I'm so upset.


Gardner played quite well. Ok he was a fault for one of the goals but to be fair his overall game was very solid. I thought Zokora held on to the ball too long at times when we were gaining momentum and Jenas was poor.

Routledge also struggled tonight. Ok he put in a couple of good crosses but he also put in a couple of poor ones and offered us nothing more than Chimbonda. Tonight he looked like a poor version of Malbranque.

[mquinn73]

Martin Jol has to go.

At the end of last season, we all knew what prevented us from finishing in the top 4 & gaining a place in this season´s Champions League - (a) poor defending (b) poor start to last season (c) no width

None of these problems have been addressed. On current performance, Spurs are now looking at a maximum of 3 points from the first 12. Defending from set pieces in elementary. If you can´t coach that, then you shouldn´t be there. Jol has had over two seasons to try and sort that one, single, simple, f$$king problem out and he has proven that he can´t do it. He has been allowed to spend the club´s money without addressing it´s biggest need - i.e. a left winger. Malbranque, Keane & Zokora were asked to play out of position tonight. Injuries are not an excuse when you have had the funds that Jol has had.

In conclusion, I believe that we need to remember one thing - Martin Jol was brought to Tottenham as assistant coach to Jacques Santini. He was not thought highly enough to coach a top team two & a half years ago. He is still not good enough to manage a top 4 team. Jol is an assistant coach at best. He is not fit to manage Spurs to a top 4 place. He has to go.

Levy - sack Jol now..... Clive Allen is the man.

Jol out.

[stoddle]

With regards to Jenas, there were a number of times in the second half where he made some excellent interceptions...but on a number of occasions he went for the raking ball which didnt come off putting us under more pressure. Ive defended Jenas in the past but tonight
he looked poor. However there was no need for the booing of him. That was bollocks. Its never helped and never will.

[Jonesey]

It's worth pointing out that we appear to have had zero offers for Jenas during the transfer window. If other managers can see he's rubbish why can't ours?

Unless it's in his contract that he must start if fit.

[spiderniall]

im a jenas basher. but u never boo your team. how fickle are you guys?

[sunnydelight786]

Little aaronlennon, my opinion is based what i have seen of Jol's teams in the last almost 3 years. He does'nt have the balls to drop under performing players, even with our first choice back 4 last season we were still conceading goals galore and he still has'nt sorted our LM problem.

All my criticism is based on facts. To break into the top 4, fat chance of that happening now, you have to have some kind of success against the teams you are aiming to replace. Please tell me how many of the so called top 4 have we beaten? In 25 odd league and cup games we have only won ONE game. Is that good enough?

I take your point about 3 of our back 4 being out but how much of a difference would they have made today? Also going forward have we looked like creating anything? We have had a problem at LM since before Jol has been here, has he addressed it? He has had 3 summers to find a LM now, you trying to tell me there was not a LM available in the last 3 summers who could have done a job for us there?

I love MJ as much as the next man but that does'nt mean he is exempt from criticism. It's MY opinion only that he has taken the club as far as he can, i dont think he's good enough to take us where us fans want us to be. If you are happy to challenge for a UEFA cup (the European version of the League Cup) and have the odd cup run, then Jols the man. If you want Champions League footy then you need a coach with a proven track record to do so. Also a coach who is not afriad to make big decisions!

[peter123]

The fans really got behind Gardner tonight and I think that boosted his confidence I was very suprised at his composure.

Midfield passing was slow and wide players are slow... no penetration.

[Spursfect]

I usually try and put things into perspective. I don't go over board when we win or get too downhearted when we lose, however with the expectation that we have built up over the previous 2 seasons I think we are at a major crossroads in BMJ Spurs career. He has been at the helm now for 2.5 seasons and we have undoubtedly made progress. How can a man who has got us two consecutive 5<SUP>th</SUP> place finishes be under pressure? The question now is have we stopped or is this a blip?<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
My hope is that it is the latter. I really like him as a Spurs manager and as a person because I believe he loves the club and is an honest man. What he has to do now is show those qualities not just to the media but also to the players. He has to be big enough to say I am going to pick players only in their best positions and on form. There are players who need the proverbial kick up the backside, and there are players who are patently not good enough to get us into the top 4.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
BMJ ego’s mean nothing if they not working for the benefit of the team. Are you big enough to bench the “superstars” to give them that kick? Or will you believe that your 11 best players, on reputation, (even if they are all forwards) will get us out of trouble?<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
BMJ now is the time to show you are the true leader of our beloved club. <o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
COYS

[littleAaronlennon]

Shit i wasn't joking when i said most of our supporters are pessimists was i two games into the season and Jol should go what bollocks. For crying out lound where were all the supporters in the dark days of George Graham, Christan Gross and Glenn Hoddle. i'll bet anyone this Tottenham team will get 60 points by the end of this season question is there any takers.

Also i can't quite fathom how Jol is second only to Mourhino in spending power since he came to the club surely that's rubbish Raffa and Fergie have spent more.

[garethbizzle]

we are shithouse. Martin needs to be replaced i'm sorry to say it. I was at the game tonight and our midfield, if you can call it tat was abismal. Jenas is terrible, i mean awful- id rather see ohara played abpve him.
As Redders said on sky and Tim Sherwood on setana, MJ hs one of the most enviable jobs in te business as there is no pressure on him but no its come on top he's losing his mind.
Robbie Keane in midfield don't make me laugh.
Do you think that a squad packed with as much talent as ours wouldn'tr have already challenged for honours under Mark Hughes or David Moyes.
The geezer doesn't have a clue and will enventually lose his job if he persists in playing jj.

MARTIN JOL OUT- TOP TECHNICIAN LIKE JUANDE RAMOS IN.
Liverpool replaced Houlier with Benitez because of the same reason!!

[cabinfever]

I know we're missing players and Kabul going off tonight was more bad news (although Rocha was good). However there was -

No leadership.

No passion.

No pride.

Most worring of all was Berbs - last year he chewed others out or gave thumbs up for bad/good passes or efforts. Watch the match again (and against Sunderland) and - nothing, nothing at all. bad pass? no reaction good pass, nothing.
Same with Keane, no animation from him either. There is something very wrong, in my opinion, in the squad at the moment.

MJ has also got to make up his mind about strikers as well and stop trying to keep them all happy by giving them play time. He's played all four in both games, wrongly, in my view.

[AJ]

First of all, considering the circumstances, the performance wasn't as bad as many of you have suggested. Our injury situation is simply horrible. Three of our best left backs are out injured. Also, after Kaboul got injured, three of our best centre-halves are also out. Only Chimbonda is available from our first choice defence line. With such a make-shift defence, a clean sheet wasn't expected. And let's face it, our squad isn't all that talented outside the first eleven. Gardner isn't a Premiership defender. Well, he is, but he shouldn't be. Rocha is still coming to terms with the English game. Stalteri can do a ok job as right-back but on the other side, he just isn't good enough.

In addition to our injury problems in defence, our most important midfielder defensively (Tainio) was also out with a virus and our only effective attacking midfielder Lennon is injured.

The goals: two personal mistakes (Gardner and Zokora) and an unlucky incident (Rocha and Robbo collision). The last two were unlucky on our part. After they got ahead, we played the game exactly the way Everton would've liked us to play. After going behind, we held the ball for long periods with little creativity and no end product. That way they could focus on just soaking in the pressure and waiting for a chance to use their best weapon, the counter-attacks. Arteta was brilliant, Man of the Match by a mile. Why don't we have a similar player?

My ratings:

Robinson: Our man of the match. Many good reaction saves and can't be blamed of any of the goals.

Chimbonda: Covered a huge distance and seems to be in good physical condition. His final ball still isn't what it should be, but even though he was our best defender tonight.

Gardner: Can't defend. That's not too flattering for a defender. Scored a perfectly good goal but on the other hand allowed a similar goal to be scored against us.

Kaboul: Did well until got injured. One quality surge forward.

Rocha: Collided with Robbo rather unfortunately and Osman scored their second goal. Otherwise he performed as I expected him to: in trouble sometimes but never giving up.

Stalteri: Looked slower than last season. Was constantly in trouble and gave away far too many freekicks. Our worst defender today, but in his defence, he was playing out of position.

Zokora: Seems to be in decent form. He was quite industrious, but doesn't offer too much offensively. Despite that ridiculous attempted block which turned into an unstoppable deflection past Robbo, he was perhaps our best midfielder today. He at least kept trying.

Jenas: Anonymous. Practically a spectator for long periods of the game. Was the nearest Spurs player, when Osman was allowed a free shot on goal and scored. JJ was our worst midfielder today. Should be dropped. If Jol honestly feels JJ can be our Lampard or Gerrard, as he said before the season, I'm starting to question his judgement on players.

Malbranque: Decent first half, but faded in the second. Tried a lot, but didn't provide the end product. He could work with Moniz to improve his first touch which sometimes is simply awful.

Routledge: Little time, but nevertheless managed to get in more decent crosses than the rest of the team combined. He seemed a bit over-enthusiastic at times, but I'd be happy to see him given a chance more often.

Keane: Starved. Got frustrated by the lack of service and was seen below half-way line waiting for a pass when we had the ball. But even when Keane did get the ball, he wasn't at his best today.

Berbatov: Couple of nice touches, but like Keane, he also wasn't served properly. Unlucky with that header which hit the inside of the post. Not one of Berba's best performances.

Bent: Was he even there? Bent is propably one of the best strikers in England in finishing a game off when his team is leading and he can use his pace in counter-attacks against a stretched defence. But tonight he had no chance of using his best weapon against a withdrawn and resolute Everton defence. Jol was right in taking him off, because out of our strikers he was worst suited to that sort of situation. He needs space and tonight there wasn't any.

Defoe: Looked lively and did try a lot. Seems determined to prove his worth when given a chance. Should perhaps start against Derby.

Against Derby, I'd go with:

Robinson
Ifil-Rocha-Gardner-Chimbonda (we don't have much choice, do we?)
Routledge-Tainio (if fit)-Zokora-Taarabt
Defoe-Berbatov

There's nothing wrong with Keane (I love the man), but Defoe deserves a chance to start. Otherwise I'd go with Huddlestone in the middle, but against a newly-promoted enthusiastic scrappy team like Derby, Tainio could bring some needed toughness. Plus he deserves to play in his best position now and then.

The one positive thing about this kind of a start to the season is that now there's still time to address our most urgent problem: total lack of creativity in midfield. We need a left-footer who can provide quality crosses and we need a creative central player (I don't think KPB will be ready just yet). Will we sign these players? I don't think so. It should be pretty obvious to Jol and Comolli that we can't break into the top 4 if we have only one midfielder capable of creating chances for our strikers on a regular basis. But apparently it isn't.

[vietnam1973]

our trouble is we are sooo un-organised its untrue, look at everton so organised and disciplined. we give away far too many free kicks that we just dont know how to defend, lets give it time tho hopefully we wll get our first win against derby
COYS!!!

[spiderniall]

Shit i wasn't joking when i said most of our supporters are pessimists was i two games into the season and Jol should go what bollocks. For crying out lound where were all the supporters in the dark days of George Graham, Christan Gross and Glenn Hoddle. i'll bet anyone this Tottenham team will get 60 points by the end of this season question is there any takers.

Also i can't quite fathom how Jol is second only to Mourhino in spending power since he came to the club surely that's rubbish Raffa and Fergie have spent more.


How much? nah i agree! our midseason slump is happening now!

[SelbYido]

We'll have to agree to disagree on that one, as I can remeber at least 4 occassion where he gave the ball away with no pressure on him. That is not what we need from a CM if we want to be a top 6 side.

Fair enough - I'm not saying he didn't give the ball away but to me it wasn't his passing, it was when he stood there thinking about what to do & someone snuck in behind & took it off him & he looked surprised. I don't think he was great but this whole 'drop him, worst player on the pitch...' thing is becoming more like a reflex action than an accurate summary of what actually happened.

I thought we improved from Saturday - more creative but still nowhere near creative enough. The first goal was definitely Robbo's fault - he should have come out for it & I can see what people mean re: his difficulties from set pieces (I watched the game with 2 Leeds fans & they agreed); the second one, Rocha made a fantasic saving header but unluckily a) it went straight to Osman & b) in making the header Rocha KO'd Robbo leaving an open goal. The third was a dubious free-kick, a shove to split the wall (illegally) & a half-arsed block from Zokora. Thus, goal.

Defoe & Berba could/should have scored in the second half, whoever said that Routledge made us better should wash their mouth out - he provided width but frankly fuck-all else & ...ah, fuck it! I'm off to get drunk & read about Al Qaeda, you know, something a bit less depressing...:wink:

[Jonesey]

Maybe we should play JJ in defence - at least he'll put in those great tackles ... which is more than Stalteri or Gardner can do.

[SelbYido]

With regards to Jenas, there were a number of times in the second half where he made some excellent interceptions...but on a number of occasions he went for the raking ball which didnt come off putting us under more pressure. Ive defended Jenas in the past but tonight
he looked poor. However there was no need for the booing of him. That was bollocks. Its never helped and never will.

:clap:

[Jonesey]

Whatever you're on ... can i get some please?

[barry]

A good shot stopper does not a good keeper make. It is just one facet of the many attributes a keeper needs. Robbo only has that one talent. Bring in Cerney, who has always impressed me and surely must be given a chance.
Most know my feelings on Jenas.
I have stated for quite some time about what I think of these two. Previously my views where treated with alot of derision. My much maligned previous posts always made me think that I was missing something. but now I feel fully vindicated. This is very sad for me. I always hoped the people who criticised me so vehemently were right, but at this moment I truly can't see it.
I don't give a fuck if more people suppport my views now, that's not how I get my jollies. I just want the best for the team I love. Now I believe more than ever if Robbo and Jenas were dropped the team would improve.

[spiderniall]

maybe as well as getting rid of the drift wood in our team we should get rid of the boo boys too!

[st@rbug]

Martin Jol has to go.

At the end of last season, we all knew what prevented us from finishing in the top 4 & gaining a place in this season´s Champions League - (a) poor defending (b) poor start to last season (c) no width

None of these problems have been addressed. On current performance, Spurs are now looking at a maximum of 3 points from the first 12. Defending from set pieces in elementary. If you can´t coach that, then you shouldn´t be there. Jol has had over two seasons to try and sort that one, single, simple, f$$king problem out and he has proven that he can´t do it. He has been allowed to spend the club´s money without addressing it´s biggest need - i.e. a left winger. Malbranque, Keane & Zokora were asked to play out of position tonight. Injuries are not an excuse when you have had the funds that Jol has had.

In conclusion, I believe that we need to remember one thing - Martin Jol was brought to Tottenham as assistant coach to Jacques Santini. He was not thought highly enough to coach a top team two & a half years ago. He is still not good enough to manage a top 4 team. Jol is an assistant coach at best. He is not fit to manage Spurs to a top 4 place. He has to go.

Levy - sack Jol now..... Clive Allen is the man.

Jol out.

Hahahahaha wow iv read this forum for a year or two, and i can honestly say ur post made me laugh the loudest. So we have some problems, you want Jol out huh ? And to be replaced with the tried and tested Clive Allen, who's only achievement was to score 49 goals one season, and then move to France!!!

Tell me the reasons why Clive Allen cud do a better job than BMJ?? In fact where are the young Spurs starlets coming through the Clive Allen ranks at youth academy?

[Jonesey]

Shit guys - i may be a bit weary but I've just looked at our fixtures list up until Christmas and, based on perfromances on Match of the Day - and our own of course - I can only see one possible win ... against Derby this Saturday.

Please tell me I'm over-reacting ...

[liono]

Fair enough - I'm not saying he didn't give the ball away but to me it wasn't his passing, it was when he stood there thinking about what to do & someone snuck in behind & took it off him & he looked surprised. I don't think he was great but this whole 'drop him, worst player on the pitch...' thing is becoming more like a reflex action than an accurate summary of what actually happened.

I thought we improved from Saturday - more creative but still nowhere near creative enough. The first goal was definitely Robbo's fault - he should have come out for it & I can see what people mean re: his difficulties from set pieces (I watched the game with 2 Leeds fans & they agreed); the second one, Rocha made a fantasic saving header but unluckily a) it went straight to Osman & b) in making the header Rocha KO'd Robbo leaving an open goal. The third was a dubious free-kick, a shove to split the wall (illegally) & a half-arsed block from Zokora. Thus, goal.

Defoe & Berba could/should have scored in the second half, whoever said that Routledge made us better should wash their mouth out - he provided width but frankly fuck-all else & ...ah, fuck it! I'm off to get drunk & read about Al Qaeda, you know, something a bit less depressing...:wink:

I agree with Routledge thing... i though he added nothing more than a bit of width, bur was very average.
Dont blame you mate.... feel like i need a few:beer::beer::beer:... to drown my sorrows.

[sunnydelight786]

Quote:
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">Originally Posted by littleAaronlennon http://www.spurscommunity.co.uk/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.spurscommunity.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?p=561759#post561759)
Shit i wasn't joking when i said most of our supporters are pessimists was i two games into the season and Jol should go what bollocks. For crying out lound where were all the supporters in the dark days of George Graham, Christan Gross and Glenn Hoddle. i'll bet anyone this Tottenham team will get 60 points by the end of this season question is there any takers.

Also i can't quite fathom how Jol is second only to Mourhino in spending power since he came to the club surely that's rubbish Raffa and Fergie have spent more.

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Agree with you that we may end up with 60 points but that wont be good enough for 4th. If we fail to reach the champions league this season dont be suprised to see some of our stars leave. It was imperative that we start off on the right foot this season to give us a chance, but we have'nt. What more can be said?

[littleAaronlennon]

Sunny you know something you make some intresting and valid points to some extent, however i have to enquire about one point the one regarding three of our back four had a huge impact on the final outcome. Quite simply as we wouldn't of given away such a stupid foul in a dangerous area to start with and surely neither Daws or Ledders would of been so naive as to allow a free header on goal without putting in any sort of challenge meaning we were also chasing the game from that point on. Secondly the disturbution from the back would of been so much better afterall it's no coinsidence Everton have only won once in 20 years at White Hart Lane before tonight's game. The strikers wouldn't of been under so much preassure either if the back four were looking solid allowing them more time and space particuraly if we had gone in front.

[sunnydelight786]

LittleAaronLennon, we'll have to agree to disagree on this point. I just dont think we are defence wise strong enough to break into the top 4. How many times in the last 2 seasons have we been done by a set piece???

I pray to god that i am wrong and Jol makes me look like a huge C**t by the end of the season but i just cannot see us progressing any further with him in charge. I am not advocating that he gets sacked now, should have been in the summer though, but if we fail to make the top 4 at the end of the season then HE HAS TO GO!!!

[littleAaronlennon]

It's a long hard season gentlemen and providing we are not more than five points behing A****** going into January, then we will have every chance of finishing fourth it's just impertaive that we keep the faith. Which brings me to another point how many people are claiming the players lack pride and passion, yet felt the need to leave tonight's game just after half time. You call yourself Tottenham supporters you should be ashamed if the team is disappointing you that much then stay away we don't need you MUGS afterall there be plenty of other SUPPORTERS willing to take your place.

[pistolP]

:clap: What's all this name calling and insults? This is suppose to be a COMMUNITY. Discussion/debate was the idea wasn't it? Has the level come to that?

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

[singis]

Forget champions league football. as long as zokora and jenas play in the middle we have no chance to break in the top four. jol has not signed a creative player in the middle who is proven. all successful teams play with two natural wingers but jol prefers 4 central midfielders. let s hope we turn things around and begin to win a game. things aren t going as we hoped for. if i was jol the only 2 areas where he should strengthen is the left back position and left winger and a proven creative midfielder. so far he only bought a left back. so we stayed as last season but other teams below us have strengthened.

[mquinn73]

Hahahahaha wow iv read this forum for a year or two, and i can honestly say ur post made me laugh the loudest. So we have some problems, you want Jol out huh ? And to be replaced with the tried and tested Clive Allen, who's only achievement was to score 49 goals one season, and then move to France!!!

Tell me the reasons why Clive Allen cud do a better job than BMJ?? In fact where are the young Spurs starlets coming through the Clive Allen ranks at youth academy?

I´m glad you can laugh now that we are bottom of the league...

Yes, I want Jol out. Clive Allen is Tottenham through & through.... did you listen to Jol tonight?? He was satisfied that we didn´t give up a 4th goal in the second half. I´m a season ticket holder and I´ll be damned if I´m gonna pay my hard-earned to watch the crap we got served up tonight & then listen to the manager say he was satisfied that we didn´t concede in the 2nd half.

At least Clive Allen will have the guts to drop Jenas... Jol is a second class coach. He was brought to Spurs as an assistant to Santini. Never was good enough.... Has had the support of the board & of the fans. Has had the more money than any other Spurs manager but couldn´t address the same old problems.

Make the change now before it´s too late.

[SelbYido]

we are shithouse. Martin needs to be replaced i'm sorry to say it. I was at the game tonight and our midfield, if you can call it tat was abismal. Jenas is terrible, i mean awful- id rather see ohara played abpve him.
As Redders said on sky and Tim Sherwood on setana, MJ hs one of the most enviable jobs in te business as there is no pressure on him but no its come on top he's losing his mind.

No pressure - with our fucking fans?!! I'd rather be in Gordon Brown's shoes than Martin Jol's!

Have you even seen O'Hara play? To paraphrase what someone above said of Jenas, if O'Hara's such a diamond, how come even Championship clubs aren't interested? He's cheap & his wages are peanuts but no biters, let alone from the PL. Funny that... He might be good but if BMJ took the risk & it failed I'm sure you'd be among the first to castigate him for playing an untried player at CM.

MARTIN JOL OUT- TOP TECHNICIAN LIKE JUANDE RAMOS IN.
Liverpool replaced Houlier with Benitez because of the same reason!!

And he spent far more than we did, brought in a bunch of totally unsuitable players just cos they were half-decent & Spanish & finished up not much better off, if at all, than they did before. I spend a lot of time in Liverpool & believe me, Rafa's no more popular with the red scousers than BMJ is with us.

Ramos, Lippi, fucking Warnock, whoever - changing managers will almost guarantee another 'season of transition' as if we haven't had enough of those already. We've played TWO GAMES!!! If its still the same after 10 then maybe I'll join you but for now, its just a bit silly IMO.

[littleAaronlennon]

Sleb i'm glad someone is talking sense mate.

[mart_loves_me]

I love MJ as much as the next man but that does'nt mean he is exempt from criticism. It's MY opinion only that he has taken the club as far as he can, i dont think he's good enough to take us where us fans want us to be. If you are happy to challenge for a UEFA cup (the European version of the League Cup) and have the odd cup run, then Jols the man. If you want Champions League footy then you need a coach with a proven track record to do so. Also a coach who is not afriad to make big decisions!

Agreed.

In fact, i'd go even further and say that its Levy, not Jol, who has turned us into 4th place challengers. He has invested huge sums in the squad in the last couple of years & Jol has had a much better calibre of players at his disposal than previous Spurs managers so of course we should be achieving fucking 5th place.

Enough of these bullsh1t injury excuses its too much now...the time has come to take a step back and look at the bigger pictue IMO. I don't buy into this "we are 1 top left winger away from being a top 4 side" or "we just need is a bit of creativity in midfield" bollocks. Our squad is much more talented than the 2005/06 version yet we are showing no signs of improvement......what does this tell us?? For me, it shows us that BMJ has taken us as far as HE can & is not capable of ironing out his managerial weaknesses (i.e tactical naivety, poor substitutions, lack of defensive organisation etc). Look at Everton today, the played as a TEAM, unlike our 11 induviduals who were being accomodated into a shoddy system where no-one know what the fuck they were supposed to be doing. Its a fucking shambles.

[littleAaronlennon]

Why should Jol go anyway if we don't break into the top four that's just nonsense surely, yes he has to show some signs of improvement from last season but everyone is talking like breaking the monopoly that is the big four will be like snatching candy from a baby.

[sunnydelight786]

SelbYido, difference is Rafa has taken Liverpool to 2 European Cup Finals, 1 FA Cup Final and 1 League Cup final. I'd say thats money well spent!!!!!

[mquinn73]

No pressure - with our fucking fans?!! I'd rather be in Gordon Brown's shoes than Martin Jol's!


Err... that´s why he´s paid the big bucks.... to take the pressure & do the f$$king job properly...


Ramos, Lippi, fucking Warnock, whoever - changing managers will almost guarantee another 'season of transition' as if we haven't had enough of those already. We've played TWO GAMES!!! If its still the same after 10 then maybe I'll join you but for now, its just a bit silly IMO.

I´ll guarantee you that Jol will spit out the same old excuse of having players "settle in" before the end of September. He´s been the manager for 2 1/2 years and yet the same problems persist (poor defending at set pieces & no width in attack). He is completely, 100% to blame. Another excuse, another season outside the Champions League. Then the board will lose confidence and the money will dry up & we´ll be stuck with wasters like Jenas for the next 7 years.

[sunnydelight786]

LittleAaronLennon, the reason i say he should go if we dont reach the top 4 is

1. He has got the most talented Spurs squad i have ever seen at his disposal (Been a fan for over 27 years)

2. He has spent in excess of £70m in the last 2 years and we have shown no sign of improvement.

3. Failure to learn from his mistakes

4. etc, etc, etc

[gerrar]

Wow, lot of people have a lot of things to say. Really don't blame you lot, watched about 70 minutes of the match, don't really remember seeing one decent through ball to the front pair.

We have four wonderful strikers, with no one to supply them from midfield. Its a shame..

But heads up, next games against Derby at home, maybe we can get our season started after 3 games at the very least

[SelbYido]

SelbYido, difference is Rafa has taken Liverpool to 2 European Cup Finals, 1 FA Cup Final and 1 League Cup final. I'd say thats money well spent!!!!!

Granted, they've done well in the cups but their league position has barely improved since Rafa took over. We might win UEFA & do the biz in those cups this season but we don't know until these cups actually start. And they had a better team to start with anyway & already had top level footy to attract top level players.

As I said - & it may be a case of Scouse fickleness - but many of the fans up there are not entirely convinced by Rafa as many of us aren't by Jol. I recognise he makes mistakes but we played some great stuff last season & the squad has improved since then so I don't see why that can't happen again this year.

As I say, give it more time before going nuts on us...

[gerrar]

On another note, seems that a lot of people don't think Jol is up to it. A good friend of mine said that Big Martin wasn't the right man to take us to the next level.. but you kinda gotta hold the line, have a little faith

[buz]

I saw the game tonight and agree with various comments posted.
I have been a big Jenas supporter previously as I felt he added 'spark' to our team and I still believe we missed him when he was injured last year. Tonight though he was dreadful and I could not believe why he was not taken off.
In a similar vain I always have been a fan of BMJ, although I do feel at times he could certainly show a bit more imagination and tactical nouse.
HOWEVER:
BMJ is developing as a manager!
Just in the same way the team is developing let the manager develop too. We all want success and we all want it now, but any team that is successful over a period of time will take time to mature.
I was so looking forward to this new season with optimism and in the last 4 days that has taken a massive shot in the arm. But I still believe!!!
What do the teams currently occupying the top 4 spots (last season) have in common? They all grew in the UEFA cup and league before progressing to be consistently good on a Saturday, hence the champions league places.
Personally I can see the potential of the squad we have, the potential of the club financially. due to the people we have in charge, and
I CAN ALSO SEE THE POTENTIAL OF THE MANAGER WE HAVE!!!!
It has taken us since the early nineties to find a manager that identifies with the fans. For crying out loud lets give him some support when he needs it most.
Have you never had a bad week at work?
Or perhaps more aptly: Is Sir Alex always perfect?

[mart_loves_me]

Ramos, Lippi, fucking Warnock, whoever - changing managers will almost guarantee another 'season of transition' ...

The whole point of our managerial system is that replacing Jol would not cause such transition. If you think about it, our players were bought primarily by Levy/Commoli NOT Jol.

Any new manager coming in would know they would not run the club's transfer dealings directly so therefore our playing squad would not be disrupted by a new manager compared to most other clubs in the EPL, therefore making the 'season of transition' a minor one.

[sunnydelight786]

SelbYido, I like the mug us Spurs fans win lose or draw will be there again on Saturday. I shall support MJ as well as the 11 boys wearing the shirt. I shall give it time, as time is all we have now. I dont want MJ to be sacked now, but come next summer, as i said before, if we aint qualified for the Champions League then he has to go. I got nothing personal against Jol and want to thank him for the level he has taken us back to, but to take us to the level we want us to be he aint the man for it.

I'm off to sleep and try to forget what i have witnessed in the last 2 matches!!!

[littleAaronlennon]

Martin Petrov should of been brought as i said at the time, indeed i'm rather disappointed he wasn't. Jol's has made some big mistakes in his time at the helm, especially regarding not bringing in a out and out left winger. But considering he was brought in as a number two rather then appointed as a manager is it any surprise sometimes you got to take a gamble, and i believe we should stick with him certainley for now.

[SelbYido]

Err... that´s why he´s paid the big bucks.... to take the pressure & do the f$$king job properly...

You're right, Jol should be able to take the pressure but if some twat from Sky Sports who does nowt but sit on his arse talking shite thinks managing Spurs is a no-pressure job, frankly, he should be punched in the face until he turns a worrying shade of purple.:omg:


I´ll guarantee you that Jol will spit out the same old excuse of having players "settle in" before the end of September. He´s been the manager for 2 1/2 years and yet the same problems persist (poor defending at set pieces & no width in attack). He is completely, 100% to blame. Another excuse, another season outside the Champions League. Then the board will lose confidence and the money will dry up & we´ll be stuck with wasters like Jenas for the next 7 years.

Yeah, the same problems of us consistently improving year on year. Yes, we need to improve on defending set-pieces & more wingers would be nice (any suggestions?) but to sack a manager who has consistently improved our fortunes purely because of these things will result in nothing but another season of change which, if it doesn't work out, will end up like (another:wink: ) groundhog day with us calling for the next guy's head.

I guess we're not going to agree on this but seriously, its not coronary time just yet...

[littleAaronlennon]

Sunny get some shut eye considering our huge problems according to you and others your certainley need it take care mate.

[SelbYido]

SelbYido, I like the mug us Spurs fans win lose or draw will be there again on Saturday. I shall support MJ as well as the 11 boys wearing the shirt. I shall give it time, as time is all we have now. I dont want MJ to be sacked now, but come next summer, as i said before, if we aint qualified for the Champions League then he has to go. I got nothing personal against Jol and want to thank him for the level he has taken us back to, but to take us to the level we want us to be he aint the man for it.

I'm off to sleep and try to forget what i have witnessed in the last 2 matches!!!

That's the spirit fella, bunker mentality!:-) As a wise man (...well, Christian Slater:shrug: ) once said, "Sleep well Mr. Serious, maybe you'll fell differently in the morning..."

[mquinn73]

Yeah, the same problems of us consistently improving year on year. Yes, we need to improve on defending set-pieces & more wingers would be nice (any suggestions?) but to sack a manager who has consistently improved our fortunes purely because of these things will result in nothing but another season of change which, if it doesn't work out, will end up like (another:wink: ) groundhog day with us calling for the next guy's head.

Left wingers... mmm, Petrov, Wright-Phillips or anybody else apart from Malbranque.... Don´t you understand?? Spurs don´t have "another season" to wait for things to get better. The time is now... Arsenal are weakened - they´ve lost Henry & there is uncertainty regarding Wenger - while Spurs have spent so much money this past off-season that finishing outside the top 4 is not an option. This is the best opportunity that we´ve had to qualify for the Champions League and ensure that the club is able to take the next step forward - don´t you understand how much is riding on the success of this season?? Why did the board approve the signing of Bent, Bale, Kaboul & Boateng.... because it was on the condition that Spurs qualified for the Champions League. If we don´t, the board will lose all confidence and we will find ourselves in the same position as Newcastle, Middlesborough & Co. No money & selling players to generate funds...

To dare is to do.... make the change now before it´s too late. I´m tired & fed up of the same old excuses... defending set pieces is an elementary part of the game yet this team simply cannot do it. I firmly believe that David Moyes, Mark Hughes & Sam Allardyce (to name but a few) would get more from this group of players than Martin Jol.

JOL OUT NOW....

[Ambro88]

Abysmal, for the 2nd game in row.

I know that we have a lot of players out, but weve bought so heavily so that we should still be able to get results. When it happens to the big 4 they can do it quite easily.

Gardner and Rocha just dont cut it, but is it me or is Robinson getting worse at set pieces? Hes not looking like he was say 18months ago, where he was on the way to being one of the best in europe.

The midfield is in bad shape. Jenas should be dropped! He simply is not good enough to hold down a first team place anymore and is becoming a liability. The rest of the midfield were shocking as well, lacking any sort of spark to get us some production. Without Lennon, we are lost.

Jol has commited a cardinal sin by not signing an out and out left winger or creative midfielder. If he still thinks Zokora is it, he should let him roam and drop huddelstone in hole to tidy up, like carrick used to. A LW is what we were after to compelete our side - instead we wasted our money bent, who is in all honesty, is a luxury we did not need.

I agree with the guy above me. Our time is now to beat the scum to move into the big 4. Sacking Jol However is not the answer. You cannot even think of sacking Jol. He is turning the club round and he will weather the ship. We were slow out of the traps last year as well. We lost twice in the first 5 games if im not mistaken?

Lets get on with it and focus on Derby. Keep the faith.

[SelbYido]

Left wingers... mmm, Petrov, Wright-Phillips or anybody else apart from Malbranque.... Don´t you understand?? Spurs don´t have "another season" to wait for things to get better. The time is now... Arsenal are weakened - they´ve lost Henry & there is uncertainty regardin Wenger - while Spurs have spent so much money this past off-season that finishing outside the top 4 is not an option. This is the best opportunity that we´ve had to qualify for the Champions League and ensure that the club is able to take the next step forward - don´t you understand how much is riding on the success of this season?? Why did the board approve the signing of Bent, Bale, Kaboul & Boateng.... because it was on the condition that Spurs qualified for the Champions League. If we don´t, the board will lose all confidence and we will find ourselves in the position of Newcastle, Middlesborough & Co. No money & selling players to generate funds...

To dare is to do.... make the change now before it´s too late. I´m tired & fed up of the same old excuses... defending set pieces is an elementary part of the game yet this team simply cannot do it. I firmly believe that David Moyes, Mark Hughes & Sam Allardyce (to name but a few) would get more from this group of players than Martin Jol.

JOL OUT NOW....

Seriously mate, I understand your frustration but I still don't believe sacking Jol will bring us success this season, no matter how soon it may happen.

Petrov - no-one really knows why that didn't happen but I strongly suspect it was a wages thing. Its all very well saying we should give players what they want but if we'd given Petrov £60k then how long before the other top players in our squad asked for £80k & consequently the next wave of newcomers asked for £100k? I watched tonight's game with some Leeds fans - that particular lesson was not lost on me.

SWP - I'm 100% with you on that, I'd love us to sign him but I suspect Mourinho wouldn't agree to it no matter what we offered. Still, with our shit start he may not see us as a threat any more - every cloud 'n' all that... :wink:

We definitely need more width but how many of these big deals could we have seriously pulled off? I'm hoping we sign someone soon, really I am, but I'm not holding my breath. Depressing I know, but other than a player at a hostile club (ie.Chelsea) & an irrelevance who now plays for Citeh, who else? That's viable?

I can see where you're coming from but I don't think Allen managing the reserves is proof enough of managerial competence just yet & if being a Spurs legend counted for shit, Hoddle or Ardiles would have led us to glory yonks ago. They didn't, ergo, being a Spurs legend means dick unless you can actually manage a team.

[sigh...] I'm done in & a tad bit pissed, off to bed. Try & keep the faith mate - you never know, you might be pleasantly surprised.

[Paolo10]

Fucking hell lads, calm down...half of you sound like fickle idiots. We were playing with our 4th and 5th choice centre halves and a (shocking btw) 3rd choice right-back at left back...Everton were organised, but they had the bits of luck today and were great at the back. After we equalised we were playing them off the park before they got the 2nd against the run of play which knocked the wind out of us, it was game over at 3-1 and that was down to Keane and Jenas's uselessness in midfield.

JJ is easily the most frustrating player we have, he has the ability, but just never does it and I am getting tired of watching shit set-pieces, the sooner Bale is fit the better.

Someone else needs a go on corners and free-kicks, JJ is fucking useless.

Even with the squad we have, I expect us to murder Derby, the sooner we get players back the better.

Any news on Kaboul's injury?

COYS.

[BelsizeSpur]

Shite & Unlucky is what we are.
Poor performances+injuries+hit woodwork and wonder saves = Spurs.

But we still luv, 'em. Don't we?

[littlemandefoe]

really really upset tbh.We need to sort our defence out, and have an actual winger play. If we dont get a result against Derby, I honestly think we could be in a big(ger) spot of bother.

[littleAaronlennon]

Paolo i have to disagree with you there as our momentum for some reason actually dropped once we got overselves back in the game, indeed i had kittens everytime Everton ventured forward because our back line was so fragile.

[ShelfSide18]

If anyone say's Jol out they should be strung up by their ungrateful little bollocks.

How fickle can you be? It's just a depressing symptom of tabloid culture that is diseasing football.

I'm not gonna mince my words here - you can all fuck off to Arsenal.

[ShelfSide18]

IF you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you,
If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,
But make allowance for their doubting too;
If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,
Or being lied about, don't deal in lies,
Or being hated, don't give way to hating,
And yet don't look too good, nor talk too wise:

If you can dream - and not make dreams your master;
If you can think - and not make thoughts your aim;
If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
And treat those two impostors just the same;
If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken
Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,
Or watch the things you gave your life to, broken,
And stoop and build 'em up with worn-out tools:
If you can make one heap of all your winnings
And risk it on one turn of pitch-and-toss,
And lose, and start again at your beginnings
And never breathe a word about your loss;
If you can force your heart and nerve and sinew
To serve your turn long after they are gone,
And so hold on when there is nothing in you
Except the Will which says to them: 'Hold on!'
If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue,
' Or walk with Kings - nor lose the common touch,
if neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you,
If all men count with you, but none too much;
If you can fill the unforgiving minute
With sixty seconds' worth of distance run,
Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it,
And - which is more - you'll be a Man, my son!

FFS keep the faith lads.

[SelbYido]

IF you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you,
If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,
But make allowance for their doubting too;
If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,
Or being lied about, don't deal in lies,
Or being hated, don't give way to hating,
And yet don't look too good, nor talk too wise:

If you can dream - and not make dreams your master;
If you can think - and not make thoughts your aim;
If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
And treat those two impostors just the same;
If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken
Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,
Or watch the things you gave your life to, broken,
And stoop and build 'em up with worn-out tools:
If you can make one heap of all your winnings
And risk it on one turn of pitch-and-toss,
And lose, and start again at your beginnings
And never breathe a word about your loss;
If you can force your heart and nerve and sinew
To serve your turn long after they are gone,
And so hold on when there is nothing in you
Except the Will which says to them: 'Hold on!'
If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue,
' Or walk with Kings - nor lose the common touch,
if neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you,
If all men count with you, but none too much;
If you can fill the unforgiving minute
With sixty seconds' worth of distance run,
Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it,
And - which is more - you'll be a Man, my son!

FFS keep the faith lads.

Brought a 90 proof tear to the eye that did...

[will8587]

Rather than dwelling on something we can't change (ugh, I'm still disgusted hours later), let's (optimistically) look forward to our next match.

I think we should be able to handle Derby with this line up.

Robbo
Chimbo-Rocha-Gardner-Stalteri (I HATE this back line. I'd take Wigan's backs over ours right now)
Routledge-Huddlestone-Zokora-Taarabt
Bent-Defoe

Hopefully there will be some promising developments with our back's fitness levels.
Benching Keane and Berbatov isn't meant to be an insult to them, I just think Bent and Defoe would be better suited. With our seriously lacking midfield, Bent is our best option at striker IMO. Defoe played passionately and determinedly, and that's something we're in desperate need of. Jol needs to be quick to substitute. If Defoe or Taarabt or Huddlestone looks seriously overmatched, he needs to act BEFORE the game gets out of reach.

These injuries are seriously disheartening. I hope sometime this season I'll be able to see my dream formation:
----------Robbo--------
Chimbo-Dawson-King-Lee
----------Kaboul---------
Lennon---Boateng---Bale
---Berbatov---Bent/Keane

Today, we had 4 of those 11 fit. Hopefully it won't be a lost cause by the time the whole team is fit.

[alfiespurs]

quite simply, I kept very quiet ... But I am now convinced the biggest joke is SPURS. Jol et al have no clue what to do ... top 4 is the biggest laugh I must admit .. let hope we STAY ABOVE THE BOTTOM 4 . i AM DRUNK BUT HAVE MY SENSE ABOUT ME TODAY ... Well done Everton ! you showed how a game is to be played... I will see some Spurs prat giving abise .. I will tell him to F ... himself .. bottom 10 here we come...

[alfiespurs]

Forget champions league football. as long as zokora and jenas play in the middle we have no chance to break in the top four. jol has not signed a creative player in the middle who is proven. all successful teams play with two natural wingers but jol prefers 4 central midfielders. let s hope we turn things around and begin to win a game. things aren t going as we hoped for. if i was jol the only 2 areas where he should strengthen is the left back position and left winger and a proven creative midfielder. so far he only bought a left back. so we stayed as last season but other teams below us have strengthened.

Tell Jol to go and take the dutch job ! The man has taken us as far as he can ... 3 years is long ! :shake: :shake: :shake: :shake: he can kiss it !!!

[alfiespurs]

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: tell him to get his clogs on and F... off Martin Jol has to go.

At the end of last season, we all knew what prevented us from finishing in the top 4 & gaining a place in this season´s Champions League - (a) poor defending (b) poor start to last season (c) no width

None of these problems have been addressed. On current performance, Spurs are now looking at a maximum of 3 points from the first 12. Defending from set pieces in elementary. If you can´t coach that, then you shouldn´t be there. Jol has had over two seasons to try and sort that one, single, simple, f$$king problem out and he has proven that he can´t do it. He has been allowed to spend the club´s money without addressing it´s biggest need - i.e. a left winger. Malbranque, Keane & Zokora were asked to play out of position tonight. Injuries are not an excuse when you have had the funds that Jol has had.

In conclusion, I believe that we need to remember one thing - Martin Jol was brought to Tottenham as assistant coach to Jacques Santini. He was not thought highly enough to coach a top team two & a half years ago. He is still not good enough to manage a top 4 team. Jol is an assistant coach at best. He is not fit to manage Spurs to a top 4 place. He has to go.

Levy - sack Jol now..... Clive Allen is the man.

Jol out.

[banners79]

Shut up Alfie Spurs, show a little faith..your rollercoaster Spurs faith is so stypical of some of our "fans". Give it a bit more time,Lennon/Dawson/Bale will be back soon & the team will start to take shape. Hopefully this will start with piling a load of goals into Derby this weekend!

[alfiespurs]

Bring in Clive Allen... a joke ... Hughton... F .. off !!! Someone who has the balls ...

[alfiespurs]

Shut up Alfie Spurs, show a little faith..your rollercoaster Spurs faith is so stypical of some of our "fans". Give it a bit more time,Lennon/Dawson/Bale will be back soon & the team will start to take shape. Hopefully this will start with piling a load of goals into Derby this weekend!

Really by that time ... we will be fighti ng for relegation and these lot do not have any bottle !!!! :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

[banners79]

Jeez,are you sure you shouldnt be writing dramas like Pride & Prejudice for the BBC Alfie Spurs, you seem very adept at creating really over-the-top hissy fits!! Have a little faith in Jol & the boys,they will come good,will just take the spark of the first win. Like in any good team you need the foundation of a good defense & a little luck. Not having Dawson,King,Bale or even kaboul at the moment has robbeed the team of any backbone. It will happend...I for one still love the lads at the lane! Alfie Spurs....think somewhere like West Ham might be more suited to your emotional state

[tananwat_w]

I'm his biggest critic but can anyone tell me what Gardner did wrong today? Thought he had a fairly solid game.

Not gonna push the panic button just yet (would be silly) but a few of my observations are; Zokora... anyone know why we spent £8.5 Million on him? Jenas... same question? Virtually every game I see we seem to just get over run in Midfield and have nobody there able to take the game by the scruff of the neck. Also no leader in the team...

Jol is tactically worse than Sven was for England (and I didn't think that was possible) and when did Paul Robinson turn into the worst Premier League keeper? My old man is an ex England school boy keeper (so played to a high standard up to about 18ish). Now I am not saying he is a fountain of knowledge or a know it all but for a good long while he has been saying great "shot stopper" (at least was) but his positional sense and command of area etc are very poor. Just look at Howard tonight... did everything Robinson didn't.

So many questions and I personally after the last two performances am short of constructive answers.

All I can say is that as Sky Sports pointed out. We are the second highest spenders in the Premier League behind Chelsea in the past 3 seasons (the stats don't lie). I am confident I know of at least 3/4 managers that would be delivering more consistant performances from our talented team by now...

I'm not saying Jol out by any means but ask yourself the question, would another Manager be getting more out of our clearly talented squad / youngsters and why oh why havent our problem areas been addressed for well over 18/20 months now?

Sorry this post is all over the place but I really am not sure what I feel at the minute apart from highly "delusional". I honestly thought we would see progress this season. Instead what we have seen is the return of a "typical" Spurs team... tremendiouly inconsistent!

Spot on! The more I see Zokora, the more I'm convinced he's not the right man to take us forwards. The same goes for Jenas.

Apart from the makeshift defence, we seem to have the same team that played together last season, except for Lennon, but from what I have seen, we are going backwards in nearly every aspect -- teamwork, tactics, and most importantly mental toughness. But I have a feeling that What MJ seems to worry the most is how to keep all the strikers happy. Now, I feel so hopeless.

[chookz]

I´m glad you can laugh now that we are bottom of the league...

Yes, I want Jol out. Clive Allen is Tottenham through & through.... did you listen to Jol tonight?? He was satisfied that we didn´t give up a 4th goal in the second half. I´m a season ticket holder and I´ll be damned if I´m gonna pay my hard-earned to watch the crap we got served up tonight & then listen to the manager say he was satisfied that we didn´t concede in the 2nd half.

At least Clive Allen will have the guts to drop Jenas... Jol is a second class coach. He was brought to Spurs as an assistant to Santini. Never was good enough.... Has had the support of the board & of the fans. Has had the more money than any other Spurs manager but couldn´t address the same old problems.

Make the change now before it´s too late.

Please can I buy your season ticket off you

[iantheyid]

i didn't get to read any of these comments last night. was in a pub in amsterdam and in a crappy mood. terrible result there is no doubt. We should clearly have played better. Our midfield looked inept, they had some luck and some skill and exploited our 2nd/3rd choice defence.

So we've had a crap start to the season - should Jol go? No... Is the season over? No...

To all these people slashing their wrists and crying that there is no hope I say bollox. We are 2 games in. We've had a shocking start. But half our team is injured. There is no doubt we are not the finished article right now but please, to quote a few people here, have a little faith.

COYS.

[pezinhoTHFC]

It all makes me feel a bit sick really. The headline on the back page of the Mirror really got to me - "Top 4? Rock Bottom!"

I think BMJ has it right by saying you can have the best stirkers but if there's no service what are they meant to do. Both Lennon and even Dawson are creative with his long balls - and they're out.

But we have enough players with creative qualities who ARE playing. And look at us.

Im confident we can turn it round but it has to be NOW else its not 5th or 4th place for us.

[pezinhoTHFC]

...oh and wtf is all this "Jol out!" talk?!?!?! He's playing with half a first team for fucks sake! BMJ knows exactly what he's doing!

2 seasons at 5th place after 10 years of shit and he loses 2 games and you want him out?! Fuck off

[spoon]

The next 4 games will see whether Jol gets the sack or not. Don't underestimate Levy, he has invested heavily this season and has high expectations. He will already be thinking about replacing Jol when and if that dreaded time comes.

[Danny1]

So its the morning after the night before and I have had a chance to calm down as I was completely furious last night!

Here is my interpretation of the game:

Robbo - Made a couple of good saves but still cant control the area, hence we concede from lots of crosses etc.

Stalteri - He isnt a LB so we cant put any blame on him, hurry back LYP, BAE, Bale (Name another side who would cope with 3 LBs out)

Gardner - We all know he isnt good enough but we need him and once again injuries are hurting us (Chelsea cant cope with just Terry out, we have 3 first team CBs out now)

Kaboul/Rocha - Kaboul is a class act, but has got the Spurs bug of injuries/Rocha should be playing above Gardner

Chimbonda - Dont know whats gone wrong with him, he is good going forward but defensively gets found wanting at times

Malbranque - Once labelled the new Zidane in France, he is a million miles away from that, doesnt create enough or do enough to justify a first team place

Jenas - Three words for JJ "Waste of Space"! Can he pass-No! Can he tackle-No! Can he shoot-Rarely! Can he head a ball-No! Can he run around like a headless chicken-Yes!

Zokora - Has the ability to become a good sweeping CM, he and Jenas do not work together, Jenas gets in his way

Keane - Not his position, he was absolutely shocking last night!

Bent/Berbs - Ive got to feel sorry for the forwards, any striker in the world is only as good as the service they get, our midfield were a disgrace!

Now we have got atleast 7 first team injuries which doesnt help:

Bale, BAE, LYP, Kaboul, Dawson, King, Lennon!

I am also starting to get a bit worried about Jol's lack of confidence in playing our young players, Taarabt & Boateng, both have flair and both are creative! PLAY THEM ON SATURDAY JOL!

The biggest thing that worries me though, is the glaringly obvious fact that BMJ doesnt know his best side, a very worrying thought!

[sebo_sek]

The most depressing thing is that if we don't beat Derby, and it is quite possible seeing that had it not been for their crap keeper (and ours is quite inept too) they would have beaten Portsmouth, we then then have Man United, so we could end up with 1, or 0 points out of 12. And that would mean bye-bye 4th - start worrying about relegation. I think the players will be fighting for Jol's head either this week, or next.

Do you agree?

[sebo_sek]

...oh and wtf is all this "Jol out!" talk?!?!?! He's playing with half a first team for fucks sake! BMJ knows exactly what he's doing!

2 seasons at 5th place after 10 years of shit and he loses 2 games and you want him out?! Fuck off

I dont want him out. At least not yet. I'll give him two maore games and if things don't improve that means he has no clue, and that justifies his expulsion.

[Sanj]

Read a few of the comments on here, and i despair at the level of football knowledge and the level of support our fans provide.

We've lost 2 games in a row.
Sunderland was a very poor performance and a bad loss. Yesterday, we played reasonably but had no luck at all. With a bit of luck, imo, we'd have at least drawn that game.
And doing this with our 4th ad 5th choice centrebacks for most of the game and 5th choice left back. When chelsea had terry alone out injured they lost plenty of games - we are missing 6 defenders !!!!
What we have seen, is that the new defence has dropped very deep, and this is pulling the midfield too deep - this happens when you do not have a leader or a partnership at the back.
Additionally we need a couple of players to step up - our most important game in the last couple of matches has been Malbranque and he has not performed. As our creative/ attacking midfielder he has seen more ball than anyone else and has not played 1 decent ball/ cross.
We need to get the ball into teh wide area's and if we can get routledge (who was more effective in 10 mins than malbranque was in the whole game) or even Ghaly in the team we will start creating more and scoring !!
Finally those fans who were booing jenas yesterday are an embarrassment to the club - complete muppets.
Rant overe - now get behind the team and we will come good (esp. when the injuries start resolving).

[SamR]

Read a few of the comments on here, and i despair at the level of football knowledge and the level of support our fans provide.

We've lost 2 games in a row.
Sunderland was a very poor performance and a bad loss. Yesterday, we played reasonably but had no luck at all. With a bit of luck, imo, we'd have at least drawn that game.
And doing this with our 4th ad 5th choice centrebacks for most of the game and 5th choice left back. When chelsea had terry alone out injured they lost plenty of games - we are missing 6 defenders !!!!
What we have seen, is that the new defence has dropped very deep, and this is pulling the midfield too deep - this happens when you do not have a leader or a partnership at the back.
Additionally we need a couple of players to step up - our most important game in the last couple of matches has been Malbranque and he has not performed. As our creative/ attacking midfielder he has seen more ball than anyone else and has not played 1 decent ball/ cross.
We need to get the ball into teh wide area's and if we can get routledge (who was more effective in 10 mins than malbranque was in the whole game) or even Ghaly in the team we will start creating more and scoring !!
Finally those fans who were booing jenas yesterday are an embarrassment to the club - complete muppets.
Rant overe - now get behind the team and we will come good (esp. when the injuries start resolving).

I know were missing 6 defenders.. but the emphasise on this transfer window was to strengthen the squad which we have done to an extent... but still the depth isnt strong enough.

Our main problems in my view are:

o - Lack of ability to deal with crosses and set pieces. Time and time again were second to the ball. The free-kick was lucky definately but our positioning when the ball is put over is terrible.

o - Centre Midfielder, I hate to say this as i always liked Jenas but he has been terrible. The midfielder are always on top of eachother.. no space to play the quick passes or one-twos. Were so slow on the ball, we break, go forward then suddenly robbos got the ball again. We need to keep the ball moving and spread it to the wings. But heres a problem too as we havent got an out and out winger at the moment.. Not in Jol's eyes anyway or he would be playing tarrabt.

o - We give away posession far to much. end of really.

o- we cant link the midfield and forwards very well. Midfielder give the ball the strikers and then theres no support. we hit a dead end and we either score because one of the strikers has done something magic or lose possesion and in trouble on the break.

o - Their seems to be holes in midfield all the time. When were on the attack the midfield seems so compact.. no where for us to pass it. Yet when everton were on the attack they looked dangerous and had space to attack... :shrug:

o - What ever anyone says, Keane, Bent/Defoe and Berbs cant all play together it doesnt work.. Keane is not a midfielder, he plays the quick passes and touches rather then run and run at players.

I think we need to dip into the transfer market.. sign a solid Midfielder.. someone who can breakup the play, keep posession and move the ball quickly when were on the break.

[WhiteHeartLowe]

The effort was clear to see,everyone was trying hard,perhaps too hard, the players looked really anxious to me, like they felt under a a lot of pressure all ready, like it was the middle of May rather than August. Berbatov seems like a ghost of his former self, not sure whats going on there, he looks to have lost all confidence in himself. But as has been said before, our biggest weakness is our midfield, there was no steel and no creativity there at all, it was woeful, Zokora and Jenas are both great athletes but dont seem to have any ideas of what to do with a football, except pass sideways across midfield, then back again, then maybe backwards, then a short pass up to Keane who has had to come back to collect the ball, then hes too deep, then passes to Jenas again, who looses posesssion......and so it goes on. Lots of possession, but doing nothing with it. Derby will not be an easy game, they will get in amongst us like Sunderland did, and then ManU needs no intoduction, I can see us going the whole of August without a point!

[noiseboy55]

I only listened to the game on the radio but from what I can gather is we lost because Everton wanted it more. The most important factor in winning is passion, determination and teamwork. Sounds like everytime we got the ball we gave it away or Everton worked their socks off to get it back. Why don't we do that? Any successful team in history harries and hassles and doesn't give the opposition anytime on the ball to create anything. We need to work on basics - we still suffer the same fate as last season where we cant defend set pieces - 2 last night. I know we have a lot of injury problems and we're at the bare bones of our defense but the fringe players who come in should play with their hearts and take the opportunity give the manager a selection headache when all the players are fit - surely they want to be playing week in week out, or do they just want to pick up their pay cheque? The one thing spurs needs is width - 15 days of the transfer window left to go, we really need to sign a left winger (hopefully Mido will go to middlesbrough and theirs a cool 6 million to spend on one), if not lets give Taarabt or even Rose some minutes on the pitch. We have no width playing 4 out and out central midfielders (or in last nights case a striker on the wing) as they all drift inside. We need more discipline and to work on the simple things - not look for the killer ball everytime we go forward. Come on Spurs lets sort this out and give the fans what we deserve - success.

[Tone]

With a bit of luck, imo, we'd have at least drawn that game.
And doing this with our 4th ad 5th choice centrebacks for most of the game and 5th choice left back. When chelsea had terry alone out injured they lost plenty of games - we are missing 6 defenders !!!!

Our defence was all over the place at times and really showed how 'makeshift' it was. I thought Gardner actually did ok, and was really pleased that he scored. There WAS some passion in the side last night, you could see it but there seemed to be a genuine lack of teamwork and communication out there. Steed was a little bit 'headless chicken'-esq but he was putting his all in.

Finally those fans who were booing jenas yesterday are an embarrassment to the club - complete muppets.
Rant overe - now get behind the team and we will come good (esp. when the injuries start resolving).

The booing was indeed terrible, the lads need encouragement and for the fans to get behind them to instill confidence! OK Jenas might not have had the best game but it's def. not good to boo individuals! After the 3rd goal, that was it, virtually no support from the crowd from then on. Bobby Smith at half time grabbed the mike back after his interview and made a point about the fans getting behind the team and they couldn't have done the double without them! I actually lost my voice by half time but when defoe went close towards the end I was trying to shout encourage to him when no-one else seemed too bothered... It was a great effort that forced a good save!

The stadium emptying towards the end was shocking too, I know people like to leave a bit early to skip traffic etc but this was a mass exodus! Some were with leaving 20 mins to go, you should support your team lads ffs!

[Tone]

The effort was clear to see,everyone was trying hard,perhaps too hard, the players looked really anxious to me, like they felt under a a lot of pressure all ready, like it was the middle of May rather than August. Berbatov seems like a ghost of his former self, not sure whats going on there, he looks to have lost all confidence in himself. But as has been said before, our biggest weakness is our midfield, there was no steel and no creativity there at all, it was woeful, Zokora and Jenas are both great athletes but dont seem to have any ideas of what to do with a football, except pass sideways across midfield, then back again, then maybe backwards, then a short pass up to Keane who has had to come back to collect the ball, then hes too deep, then passes to Jenas again, who looses posesssion......

:clap:

[StauntonSpur]

So its the morning after the night before and I have had a chance to calm down as I was completely furious last night!

Here is my interpretation of the game:

Robbo - Made a couple of good saves but still cant control the area, hence we concede from lots of crosses etc.

Stalteri - He isnt a LB so we cant put any blame on him, hurry back LYP, BAE, Bale (Name another side who would cope with 3 LBs out)

Gardner - We all know he isnt good enough but we need him and once again injuries are hurting us (Chelsea cant cope with just Terry out, we have 3 first team CBs out now)

Kaboul/Rocha - Kaboul is a class act, but has got the Spurs bug of injuries/Rocha should be playing above Gardner

Chimbonda - Dont know whats gone wrong with him, he is good going forward but defensively gets found wanting at times

Malbranque - Once labelled the new Zidane in France, he is a million miles away from that, doesnt create enough or do enough to justify a first team place

Jenas - Three words for JJ "Waste of Space"! Can he pass-No! Can he tackle-No! Can he shoot-Rarely! Can he head a ball-No! Can he run around like a headless chicken-Yes!

Zokora - Has the ability to become a good sweeping CM, he and Jenas do not work together, Jenas gets in his way

Keane - Not his position, he was absolutely shocking last night!

Bent/Berbs - Ive got to feel sorry for the forwards, any striker in the world is only as good as the service they get, our midfield were a disgrace!

Now we have got atleast 7 first team injuries which doesnt help:

Bale, BAE, LYP, Kaboul, Dawson, King, Lennon!

I am also starting to get a bit worried about Jol's lack of confidence in playing our young players, Taarabt & Boateng, both have flair and both are creative! PLAY THEM ON SATURDAY JOL!

The biggest thing that worries me though, is the glaringly obvious fact that BMJ doesnt know his best side, a very worrying thought!


I must admit I pretty much agree with most of that.

I hate to say this but Robbo needs a rest , give Cerny a little run.

The back 4 is pretty much dictated by circumstances so its even more important that Zokora plays that holding roll,


After watching these 2 games I thought Malbranque played quite well considering he's on the wrong side, put in a couple of decent crosses but being right footed they were curling away,in the present crisis play him on the right and we might see some decent delivery.

The other two midfield places from Tarrabt Huddlestone and Boateng.Give the boys a chance. If we did give tham a chance from the start and were still in this situation I think we would be saying, stick with them...

Then hopefully Berbatov will get some decent ball ,cause I'm sure from his manna he knows he ain't going to get any at the moment.

I hate to say this but I am worried by MJ's lack of bottle and tactic's....All I can think is he was playing safe and it backfired on him.. I am alway for giving a manager a good run, we have failed to do that in the past, but even with our squad depleated as it is at the moment,I wonder what the like's of a Martin O'Neil would do.

Just my thought's for what there worth.......

[ravo]

Wasting £40 on going to the game last night, it can be said that we were unlucky with a couple of the goals and a few of the refereeing decisions. However, there is no way we deserved more than a point from that game (at best).

We have absolutely no creativity in midfiled. Either we play two wingers with our current CMs, or we play the Hudd and a KPB type in the middle if we continue to play 'wingless'...

God that was painful last night - I'm still smarting.

On another note, you've got to feel sorry for Kaboul, such a talent, to get injured in the first 15mins. Gardner also probably had one of his best games for us.

Unfortunately, Stalteri just doesn't seem to cut it. Perhaps due to the fact that he was playing LB. Even so, whenever he got the ball, he would stop, look up, not move then play back. Not really good enough I'm afraid. However, I guess it's all you can hope for when your three preferred LBs are injured.

[2bearis2do]

Robinson - the worst goalkeeper in the world!
Defence - do we have defence??
Midfield - our midfield is a joke...especialy Jenas
Forward - Keane, Berbatov, Bent, Defoe all great but whats the sence to score 3 and to receive 5??
And at the end our manager Martin Jol - ....well i hope that he is not going to be anymore our manager, because with him our top will be 5th. place...Before this 2 matches i was dreaming about champions leag....now i am worried about championship!?

You brainless fickle goon. Go find a prawn sandwich.

[2bearis2do]

Martin Jol has to go.

At the end of last season, we all knew what prevented us from finishing in the top 4 & gaining a place in this season´s Champions League - (a) poor defending (b) poor start to last season (c) no width

None of these problems have been addressed. On current performance, Spurs are now looking at a maximum of 3 points from the first 12. Defending from set pieces in elementary. If you can´t coach that, then you shouldn´t be there. Jol has had over two seasons to try and sort that one, single, simple, f$$king problem out and he has proven that he can´t do it. He has been allowed to spend the club´s money without addressing it´s biggest need - i.e. a left winger. Malbranque, Keane & Zokora were asked to play out of position tonight. Injuries are not an excuse when you have had the funds that Jol has had.

In conclusion, I believe that we need to remember one thing - Martin Jol was brought to Tottenham as assistant coach to Jacques Santini. He was not thought highly enough to coach a top team two & a half years ago. He is still not good enough to manage a top 4 team. Jol is an assistant coach at best. He is not fit to manage Spurs to a top 4 place. He has to go.

Levy - sack Jol now..... Clive Allen is the man.

Jol out.

Go find a prawn sandwich too,. as you obviously don't understand the game.

[2bearis2do]

I dont want him out. At least not yet. I'll give him two maore games and if things don't improve that means he has no clue, and that justifies his expulsion.

sebosek...wtf? You usually have a brain in your head. Jol out is mindless. Two more games? Madness.

[2bearis2do]

THE REAL STATE OF THINGS: For those that eat prawn sandwiches....
SPURS1 EVERTON 3

Robinson, not at fault really.

A reserve back four was painfully evident tonight and will cost BMJ big time. We've 6 players injured ahead of Gardner/Stalteri and Rocha. So what can BMJ do? His starting back 4 would be a million miles away from tonights:

Chimb/King/Kaboul/Lee

Not a bad back four at all and with time they could gel into quite a unit. We need that solid back four foundation. So what can he do? You can't play unfit players and if thats all we've got in reserve, well, we're screwed for the first month of the season.

So we need to buy.

Personally I thought AG had a decent game and is a better left back than he is a CD.
I'm not sold on CHIMB. He really seems disinterested. Sell him to Chelski and invest the 10mil in a very decent right back.

Midfield: JJ and Zok does NOT work. One or the other but not both together. They are too similiar as players. Full stop.

I'm also crossing over to the JJ Basher brigade tonight and have no intention of advocating any of his so called abilities on this site again. Unless BMJ tries him without Zok and we can see what he is really made of. (It might be the worst idea I've ever had but its his last chance)
Stop playing Keane on either wing. Just stop it. Thats not his position. always play players in their 'natural' position. Thats rubbish management and team selection. IMO
Steeeeed had a decent game IMO

We can't create. Thats just appalling at this level with the quality of attack we've got. BMJ has to grab his nuts and go with at least two from Tarabt, Steed, Wayne or Hudd. At the moment we only have one of these on at any one time. at least Wayne added a bit of spark tonight.

The same goes for Defoe, at least he was up for it. BMJ has a major problem on his hands, he CAN NOT play 3 up front. It painfully doesn't work. Frankly they get in each others space and none seem to be able to play 'their own natural' game.

It says a lot that the best players (for me) tonight were AG and Steed.

How much better off would that team have looked with a Petrov on the left and a Matt Taylor or Baines behind him?

Who indeed does decide who ultimately should be bought by the club? Is it BMJ? is it DC? What happened to buying the finishing piece of a jigsaw that actually fits into place?

BMJ has some serious work to do before the end of this transfer window and not just on the pitch.

[sunnydelight786]

2bearis2do, can i ask you a question. What are your expectations for us this season?

[memo]

whenever were on tv we go 2 pot must b a omen????

[Timspurs]

Just watched the game on Sky due to work last night and i was embarrassed and shocked at our performance.We had 66% of the possesion but created little.All huff and puff but no idea!! We are critics in our own right but i do feel Jol's tactics and selection is a bit puzzling at times.Ultimately the players have to stand up and be counted which sadly they dont seem to have a clue,fight or any passion at the moment. Maybe its time to play our younger players,if we are losing with our senior players cant be any worse losing with these guys then.Jenas needs to be dropped IMO and Keane up front and NOT in midfield.
Sort it Jol!!!!!!!!

[jackhealy]

Most of the things that needed to be said have already been said. I actually think we should play essentially the same team against Derby. They should be too good for Derby. Our defence, as has been said, is weak because of an injury crisis. Taarabt could be given half a game instead of Jenas, but Boateng is coming straight from another league where the play is slower than ours. Throwing him straight in against Derby would not be sensible.
I look on the bright side. We have massively better players than Everton, and I will bet we finish higher than them at the end of the season. What's needed now is to salvage something from the first few games and wait for our key players to recover from injury.

[storts]

Fuck me


Just returned from the Lane and I have that same feeling I had after the Seville and Man U games and it will take me a day and a half to get over it and I'm going round a Gooner's house tommorrow.

Now the game.


Where do I start.


First of all lets just give the ref some blame. He was diabolical. Halsey is one of those refs that doesn't want to be seen as biased and so gives every decision to the away team.

Now onto the game. Everton were decent, they had a game plan and stuck to it. They were not as good as it looks though to be honest as we were truly poor. I must say now, Martin Jol IS tactically inept. He's the best manager with had for years yet he is tactically inept. Says it all to be honest.

I am not one of the fickle lot who want him yet, that is so wrong, but he does need to buck up his ideas. His decision making can be completely incorrect on a lot of major issues.

For instance, why play Keane on the right hand side when Routledge played all pre season there. Keane is not a midfielder and likes to cut inside. Routledge is a winger who loves taking people on. What did we lack in our opening game? Width. Strange decision to say the least. I don't give a fuck if people are unhappy Martin, you play a team that can win, not one that makes people happy.

Next point. He plays Stalteri at left back two games running. The guy can barely kick with his right foot let alone his left, yet with Rocha on the bench who is left footed and played well there last season.

Now onto some of our players

Jermaine Jenas is an absolute joke. I have always been the first person to defend Jenas when people run him down but I'm afraid my patience has worn out. He cannot do anything right at the moment. When we three one down he showed no urgency, just gave the ball away and passed backwards. He passing is dreadful, his tracking back was awful tonight and like fuck should he play for England.

Anthony Gardner, he was okay tonight, but the guy is a liabilty. He is 6 foot 6 and cannot win a header. He constantly fouls opponents and is shaky. He is not good enough.


Paul Stalteri, now here's a joke and a half. The guy is absolutely 100% shit. He should never make the bench let alone the first team. He is the biggest waste of space I have seen in my life and I wish he would leave. Today he gave away the freekick needlessly for the first goal, he was at fault for the second Everton goal and just because I hate him he can have the blame for the third.

Jol is completely braindead it seems at the moment. We need Adel Taarabt playing. He is the brightest talent we have at the club and he is better than all our midfielders currently bar Zokora.

We are struggling badly without key players. Everton may have had a few minor players out but have some sympathy.

Dawson
King
Lennon
Bale
Lee young Pyo
Assou Ekotto
Kevin Prince Boateng

Come on, who loses their two best Centre backs, all three of their left footed players, their most promising and attacking influence in the whole team who creates so much and the guy who can replace Jenas all at the same time. Our squad is stretched to the least and still needs a lot of work.

It looks like Kaboul could be out for a while as well which only deepens our worries.


A team of:

Robinson

Chimbonda
King
Dawson
Bale

Lennon
Zokora
Kevin Prince Boateng
Taarabt

Berbatov
Bent

Looks so much more promising. The team above is the team that can challenge for fourth, not the team we put out today. We should be able to cope without some of those players but only if MJ bucks up his ideas.

I was wrong and I am now losing confidence. Derby is not far off and we simply must win.

Three Players came out of today with some credit.

Zokora did two jobs tonight. He was having to cover Jenas a lot of the time and was his usual sef.

Bent was excellent but people will not see it that watched on tv. The runs he made today were simply terrific. The problem was our midfield was shite so he got no service. Put Huddlestone in there and Bent would have had a hat trick.

Robinson, Two good games from him and he kept us in it today.

Now I suppose I had better stop


Better keep this going: The future's still bright, The Future's still Lilywhite.

COME ON YOU SPURS


Edit: Missed out something though. I must say Lescott is CLASS. I wouldn't begrudge him an England spot.

[2bearis2do]

2bearis2do, can i ask you a question. What are your expectations for us this season?

Of course you can sunny!

A tough tough question. I don't have much time now but to summise as best I can.

- With a fully fit squad. We will be pushing for 5th again.
Not good enough I hear you cry!
- If the squad gets fitter, we will get stronger and do well/better than we did in the cups last year. Maybe just maybe lift one.

- We are missing 2/3 pieces of the squad jigsaw and TIME in order to challenge for 4th.
- I've been on the "Need a LM/LW" bandwagon for as long as I can remember.
- We need a Zok/JJ player who is better than both of them.
- We need time for our first choice back four to become a unit.
- We then need time to get a settled formation, confidence and a good run together.
- We need even more time to be really pushing that 4th spot. This squad is exceptionally young, talented but young. Players don't peak until 25-27. Thats what we are building for.

Its been a shocking start to the season. No other club has suffered in the build up to the new season like we have.

Its a curse. I'm gutted but I'm also realistic.

[spurs_viola]

Chelski had more than a half of real first team players out against full strength Man U in charity shield season opener, but they didn't collapse like a house of cards, drawing 1-1.
Tactics, organisation and application are often more important than the available personnel - as Sunderland and Reading showed against us and Man U.

Stalteri and Gardner did not suddenly become so inept - it was obvious to an objective person even 2 seasons ago. A decisive action would have been to put them on transfer list and try hard to replace them with a more adequate cover with enough skill and awareness for a Prem League defender. I don't believe it would have been so very hard to find such cover in 2 years.
So to say now that they HAD TO play as our first choice defenders are out is only skimming the surface. The truth is such players should not stay on club's books year after year, filling the ranks but not providing the quality.

[bspurs]

WOW !!!
I am Absolutely delighted with the result !!!
We were class !!!
JENAS did great !! JENAS is a world class player !!!
Perhaps he should be the best in this World !!!!
I hope to see JENAS play for us Forever !!!!

No one can do better than JENAS.. !!!!

Go go JENAS go go !!!

go away FAR FAR from WHL m8 !!!

[S17PUR]

In response to a few others, I'll provide my own evaluation of each player last night (I had plenty of time to think about it as it takes me 4 1/2 hours to get home after each game!);

Robbo - not at fault, actually looks to have started the season on good form and had urgency thatb others apparently lacked.

Chimbo - not his usual self, looks like he misses Lennon and the understanding that they had developed.

Salty - all of his inadequacies as a right back are doubled at left back, simply not good enough I'm afraid.

Kaboul - decent start before injury.

Gardner - not as bad as people make out but has an unfortunate ability to lose his man on nearly all set pieces (we might actually benefit from zonal marking imo).

Rocha - actually though he did quite well when he came on, though at times he also looked nervous.

Malbranque - he doesn't seem half as effective as when we play an orthodox right winger on the other flank, his space is restricted and he's unable to go down the line. Not bad, but not good either.

Zokora - puts himself about and made some timely interceptions but I wouldn't mind seeing some of his trademark runs. Better than most.

Jenas - poor. He plays far too deep, in a defensive midfield role almost but he doesn't have the required defensive qualities to do so, or the ability that Carrick had to pick passses and orchestrate from the back.

Keane - seems to sense that the team can't create anything and then tries to rectify this on his own. Out of position and seemingly out of form.

Routledge - did well enough to suggest he should be in the starting line-up against Derby and is a capable understudy for Lennon.

Berbatov - doesn't look the player of last season. Yes the service has been (very) limited, but even his sublime touch seems to have deserted him. Luckily form is only temporary.

Bent - unlike Berba he seemed to directly suffer from a lack of service. He wants the ball in behind and nobody seems capable of providing it. On the 2 occasions that they did, one ended up in the back of the net but was ruled out for offside and the other forced a good save from Howard.

Defoe - looked quite sharp when he came on, but perhaps tried a little too hard although this is understandable.


Derby really is a must win game and I feel we need to thump them to turn the season around in the same way that we turned a corner last season with the 4-0 win over Fulham. COYS

[PaulM]

Poor, poor performance and BMJ got it spectacularly wrong. Keane in midfield????

People can say that we had a patched up back four but there is a deeper problem there. The way we defend is, as was the case last season, terrible. Put in whoever you like there but if they get no protection then they will concede. Even when The King and Dawson played together last season we conceded bucketloads. Last night Gardner and Rocha played okay and we still shipped three goals.

Personally, and I don't like pretending this is championship manager, I'd put Zokora and Tainio in front of the back four. They will add a bit of bite and protection. Last season when they played together (around the time we whacked Fulham 4-0) they looked solid. In Tainio's absence I'd plump for THudd. I've defended Jenas lots of times here but he was awful last night and on Saturday. He should be benched and earn his place back.

This isn't good. I've no doubt we will be top 6 this season but the last week has shown why we will struggle badly to get near the top 4.

[Krafty]

I know these points must have been made before - width, creativity, pressing - all problems with midfield.

As for booing Jenas - he was shit. End of. Its not that he is bad, but he has it all there. He showed his turn of speed to make a good run into the box in the first half but never did it again. He cant pass forwards, and when he attempts it he tries to be to cute and 'fizz' it in. His set pieces are as inconsistent as his general play.

At times he jsut switches off, and it spreads to the rest of the team. If he was just an average player then people would lay off him but he has all the abilities to be a top player but is so up his own ass he doesnt think he needs to work hard. He only ever offers the simple, backwards option, I never saw him burst past the other midfielders or strikers. He cant create, and just watches the game go past him. Put Zokora in with him and you get absolutely nothing from the centre of midfield, and they just seem to drag each other deeper and deeper.

It was a poor performance. There seems to be no game plan and I wonder what they do in training. Its certainly not set piece defending. Number of times I saw one of the Everton players lose his marker by simply 'running' was criminal.

Everton were not that good, they just worked hard, exactly like Sunderland and unfortunately the same way Derby will play.

Until we stop lumping balls up to Berbs we are not going to get the best from him, or any of the other strikers. We need some width to open teams up. We need to press teams in their own half as a team to stop them crossing balls in (Stalts!!! Twice in four days man! Get touch tight, dont let them pick a pass) and getting shots off. And Robinson, come on at least look like you are trying.

[garethbizzle]

No pressure - with our fucking fans?!! I'd rather be in Gordon Brown's shoes than Martin Jol's!

Have you even seen O'Hara play? To paraphrase what someone above said of Jenas, if O'Hara's such a diamond, how come even Championship clubs aren't interested? He's cheap & his wages are peanuts but no biters, let alone from the PL. Funny that... He might be good but if BMJ took the risk & it failed I'm sure you'd be among the first to castigate him for playing an untried player at CM.



And he spent far more than we did, brought in a bunch of totally unsuitable players just cos they were half-decent & Spanish & finished up not much better off, if at all, than they did before. I spend a lot of time in Liverpool & believe me, Rafa's no more popular with the red scousers than BMJ is with us.

Ramos, Lippi, fucking Warnock, whoever - changing managers will almost guarantee another 'season of transition' as if we haven't had enough of those already. We've played TWO GAMES!!! If its still the same after 10 then maybe I'll join you but for now, its just a bit silly IMO.

You're talking nonsense mate. Rafa Benitez has won the Champions League and got to another final, he also picked up the F.A Cup along with countless trophies during his time as Valencia manager. I for one have seen our reerve sid on numerous ocassions this pre-season and believe it or not but they have played much better football than our 1st team......obviously the opposition was easier but the team looks more balanced.
Martin Jol is arguably one of the best in the business a man management but tactically he's inept. Not 1 Left footer in the 26 or so players that have played in the last 2 matches- awfull!!!

[ShelfSide18]

Some of you people make me sick. The biggest disgrace is not the players but the idiot fans who boo and enjoy to slate our players.

Anyone who says Jol out should have their tiny little brain tested. It's been TWO GAMES. May I remind you that we finished last season with 1 defeat in 15 premiership games. Does that count for nothing. No, because your a bunch of Knee jerk wankers who base your seedy little views on what you read in them scummy little rags. They've done exactly what they wanted - build us up with ridiculous hype creating ridiculous amounts of pressure waiting for us to lose a couple of games and mockingly knock us down like the scummy pricks they are.

Keep the faith and when we hit top form i'm gonna remind the idiots on here of what they said. It's a bad start than none of us expected yes. But our season starts on Saturday now but i fear that Spurs have 2 opponents - Derby and the boo boys who are going to be waiting for that first stray pass to start getting on the players backs again. And i really hope Jenas puts one away too.

Depressing.

[If**kinglovespurs]

Just got in from the game, lost for words...I said after Saturdays humiliating defeat for the first time in public that Jol has taken us as far as he can. With him in charge we cannot go any further than 5th or a cup run (until we meet anyone half decent). He has not addressed our LM problem, keeps putting square pegs in round holes and does'nt learn from his mistakes. He's afraid to drop his fav players too. Before i start getting abused by everyone let me say after spending £70m odd in the last 2 summers our team has gone backwards from 2005/6. He should have been replaced in the summer with a TOP coach, a proven winner. As he was'nt it seems it will be a seaon of underachievement again this season.:evil:

Although I'm sad to say this, I couldn't agree more. Jol is a lovely man and a good coach but not a GREAT one. Yes he HAS been our best manager for years but we have come sooooo far in a short space of time that (for want of a better phrase) we've outgrown him. We now need a manager in the same calibur as Wenger, Mourinho etc and Jol for all his good points isn't that. The question is, who would we replace him with??

[blobster]

I don't agree with some people's need to invest more in our defence. Come on, after 15 mins we had King, Dawson, KabouL, Bale, LYP and BAE all out. Basically we had one first choice defender on the pitch in position. Any team would struggle with an injury list like that! The defence is a unit and they have to know their place and work with each other and throwing in a bunch of back-up defenders in one go is not going to gel. We have ample cover. Three LB's, four good central's counting Rocha. It's just extremely bad luck at the moment.

Whayt we really need once the defence is in place is some world class creative midfielders. The thing is, we could have them in Taraabt and Boateng. I've never been a Jenas fan but it could be that with the defensive situation BMJ is feeling he has to stick with experience to get us through but that's obviously not working and i'd rather see Taraabt, Boateng or both given a chance, Zokora have a proper holding role and try to take some pressure of the defence.

[spursLA]

Well I doubt many people will read through 8 pages of that sort of thing to get to this post but here goes ...

Stalteri is out of his depth and out of position at LB - although look back at the comments following the Torino game - and we do have cover at LB, at least at the beginning Rocha or AG could have played there. But Stalteri got made to look bad by Arteta who's going to make a lot of first choice LB look bad this year. Normally we'd have Tainio in front as cover in that situation but he got a virus and we needed some creativity and so it was Malbranque instead who was cutting in and not helping defensively. In hindsight maybe Rocha would have been a better choice with Chimb in the middle and Stalty at RB.

Keane in midfield is more of a concern - although again its wasn't that long ago people here were calling for three strikers against Sunderland - although I doubt we'll see it again for a while. Routledge should have been given the chnace from the beginning if only because it preserves the team shape. If the complaints after the first game were lack of width and creativity I don't see how the selection against Everton was supposed to address them.

Derby gives MJ a chance to shake up the midfield (the back line picks itself) without damaging our chances too much.

[Krafty]

Once again our left back position is a problem, but its more because there is absolutely no support from anyone else for the LB. While Stalts should have got much much tighter, if he did he could have been so easily exposed if he was beat or the winger on the ball gets some support. Malbranque is good on the ball but shocking off it. I dont think he can be given a side role because that flank will be exposed and any half decent team with a half decent right winger will do us.

I dont think there are any partnerships between any of our players - some fo that might be done to inuury, the rest down to no game plan. Full backs dont link up properly with their wingers, if there are any, the centre mid looks flimsy and uncooordinated, same with the back line, central midfield doesnt link with the forwards or the side midfielders, side midfilders dont link up with the forwards. Its kind of like the brazil system or 4-2-2-2, but without the pace of play, the attacking full backs or the solidness of the defensive midfielders.

As spursLA says, hopefulyl Derby will give Jol a chance to go with a shape rather than names. We need to get back to basics.

[spursman4life]

omg why must the yid army make me cry so much that defendin was comical:bang:
martin jol needs to step up his game or we will be chasin the top 5 the rest of the season

[jackhealy]

For those of you who are seriously talking about dumping Martin Jol, after two games I offer the following thoughts. First, how many of the world's top coaches are available to replace him? Think what Man City paid to get SJE, and he's not even that good arguably. If you remember when we had a different manager every feew months, we would buy players at great expense who the incoming manager would not like, and we would get very little sell on value. I realise that Jol does not officially buy players, but no manager will have players he doesn't want.
The fact is we have a marvellous squad of players, some of whom are injured at the moment. With returns from injury, and a few changes in the lineup, we should improve rapidly. Just remember how strong we were towards the end of last season.

[1986mattspur1986]

I know we're missing players and Kabul going off tonight was more bad news (although Rocha was good). However there was -

No leadership.

No passion.

No pride.

Most worring of all was Berbs - last year he chewed others out or gave thumbs up for bad/good passes or efforts. Watch the match again (and against Sunderland) and - nothing, nothing at all. bad pass? no reaction good pass, nothing.
Same with Keane, no animation from him either. There is something very wrong, in my opinion, in the squad at the moment.

MJ has also got to make up his mind about strikers as well and stop trying to keep them all happy by giving them play time. He's played all four in both games, wrongly, in my view.


do u poss think this bad start 2 the season has sumfing 2 do with the alleged fracas between berba and keano after the torino game? tthy all looked like a team in tht game but after, oh my days!!!

[sunnydelight786]

<TABLE class=tborder id=post563040 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" align=center border=0><TBODY><TR><TD>ShelfSide18 - Today, 02:13 PM </TD></TR><TR><TD class=alt1>Some of you people make me sick. The biggest disgrace is not the players but the idiot fans who boo and enjoy to slate our players.

Anyone who says Jol out should have their tiny little brain tested. It's been TWO GAMES. May I remind you that we finished last season with 1 defeat in 15 premiership games. Does that count for nothing. No, because your a bunch of Knee jerk wankers who base your seedy little views on what you read in them scummy little rags. They've done exactly what they wanted - build us up with ridiculous hype creating ridiculous amounts of pressure waiting for us to lose a couple of games and mockingly knock us down like the scummy pricks they are.

Keep the faith and when we hit top form i'm gonna remind the idiots on here of what they said. It's a bad start than none of us expected yes. But our season starts on Saturday now but i fear that Spurs have 2 opponents - Derby and the boo boys who are going to be waiting for that first stray pass to start getting on the players backs again. And i really hope Jenas puts one away too.

Depressing.
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Agree with you reference the booing, that was bang out of order. To call the Spurs fans who are criticising Jol "knee jerk wankers" is bang out of order too. There is no need to resort to abuse to get your point across. Everyone is entitled to there opinion, no one is forcing it upon anyone here. With yourself stooping to such a low level is not very clever.

I am one of the fans who is criticising Jol and am not afraid to admit that. I would have much rather he was sent packing in the summer in favour of a PROVEN manager at this level i.e. Van Gaal, Hiddink, Ramos, etc. As that did not happen i shall back him aswell as the 11 players wearing the shirt but that does not mean i wont criticise him if something is not right. It has been a disgraceful start to the season, after the poor start we had last season it was imperative that we set of this season positvely, we have'nt. His excuses are wearing thin now aswell as his joke selections. He really has to step up now otherwise it will be, as i fear already, another season of underachievement in the league.