Jol down after defeat....

[mquinn73]

Source: Sky Sports

Spurs boss Martin Jol had few excuses for his side's second successive defeat as they lost to Everton.

Spurs followed up their opening day loss to Sunderland, but suffering a home defeat to The Toffees - who claimed a 3-1 win at White Hart Lane.

Spurs were hardly in the game after going behind just a few minutes in when Joleon Lescott scored.

Anthony Gardner did level, but goals from Leon Osman and Alan Stubbs meant the match was all but over by half-time.

Disaster

"It was a disaster to concede in the second minute," Jol told Sky Sports.

"If you concede three goals like that against Everton it is always going to be difficult to break them down."

Jol was merely pleased not to concede any further goals after the break.

"The only positive thing is that we came out and we really wanted to do better in the second half and not concede another goal and we did that, although we needed some help from Paul Robinson," he said.

"They are always good on the break, and we again lacked the creativity to break them down."

Injuries mount

The Spurs boss bemoaned his side's defensive problems. Already without Ledley King and Michael Dawson, he saw new French signing Younes Kaboul limp off in the first-half.

"The problem is that we have used ten defenders, seven are out now - we lost Kaboul in the first half, he pulled his hamstring - but we have to do better, a lot pages and chapters are left to write in story [of the season] but it is disappointing."

http://img.skysports.com/07/08/218x298/jol_martin_550747.jpg



Not good enough....

Jol has had two & a half season and a bucket load of money to sort out the problems but has shown that he can´t do it. Spurs will never be a top 4 team with him, no matter how much money the club spends.

Clive Allen needs to be installed as manager asap....

[Phantom]

hardly in the game? complete bollox im afraid

[YiddArmy]

Not good enough....

Jol has had two & a half season and a bucket load of money to sort out the problems but has shown that he can´t do it. Spurs will never be a top 4 team with him, no matter how much money the club spends.

Clive Allen needs to be installed as manager asap....

Steady on mate.

It's 2 games in.
We've got loads of injuries
We created enough chances last night for at least a draw
Everton got 2 lucky breaks with 2 goals (Rocha's clearance and the deflection from the freekick)

I'm not saying everything's fine cos it's not, but seriously, what good is sacking Jol going to do 2 games into the season?

[cabinfever]

I'm repeating myself, I know and I know we're missing players, however last night, there was No leadership. No passion and No pride.

Most worring of all was Berbs - last year he chewed others out for bad passes or gave thumbs up for good passes or efforts. Watch the match again (and against Sunderland) and - nothing, nothing at all. bad pass? no reaction good pass, nothing.
Same with Keane, no animation from him either, no waving of arms and little if any sign of frustration with bad passing to him.
There is something very wrong, in my opinion, with the morale in the squad at the moment and I don't just mean because we lost two games.
Also, MJ has also got to make up his mind about strikers as well and stop trying to keep them all happy by giving them play time. He's played all four in both games, wrongly, in my view.

[TheBigMatch]

Not good enough....

Jol has had two & a half season and a bucket load of money to sort out the problems but has shown that he can´t do it. Spurs will never be a top 4 team with him, no matter how much money the club spends.

Clive Allen needs to be installed as manager asap....

:bs:

I guess mquinn73 is not one to take seriously....he's away with the fairies.

[Ryan]

Clive Allen needs to be installed as manager asap....

That must be the worst idea i have ever heard. Bring in someone with absoulutely no experience - at will get us into the top four.

Does anyone not remember this time last year and where we finished in the league eventually? We also have a lot more defensive injury problems this time around.

[spursmadnad]

Clive Allen?!?!? Are you having a laugh?!?! Tell you what, lets give a potential top for team to a man with no managerial experience. Do we look like Bolton fucking Wanderers? Grow up chap, two bad games and you wanna sack the gaffer. Bet you were in raptures with the rest of us when he gave that end-of-season talk after Man City. We were poor but unlucky tonight, if that free kick doesn't get that deflection, the game is still alive. Get off the bandwagon, grow up, and support your team.

[WhiteHart4Ever]

Sacking Jol cause hes had "2 and a half years to sort out our problems" is insane. Remember where we were when he took over, do you? 8-11th placed in the league, would almost die for Europe, and certainly had a squad that cant be compared to this one. And Clive Allen? Why? I know hes been great with the reserves, but give me a break, he needs a bit more than that under his belt.

Also, the injury-catastrophe in defence is for me the main reason for the poor start. The insecurity spreads in the team.

Having said that, some players clearly havnt performed like they should. Chimbonda is clearly not in the form of his life, while jenas - hes been terrible and have done nothing to keep his place in the starting 11.

[kingofspurs]

We have got to give Jol our backing for what he's achieved with us in the league these last two years.

However, there was a major lack of leadership on the park last night. We rolled over in centre mid - we were even getting dominated there on saturday - and the lack of spirit and leadership all over was worrying.

I'm crossing my fingers Jenas and Zoko turn out to be the players we need, but on last night's performance...

[NeverRed]

Source: Sky Sports
Not good enough....

Jol has had two & a half season and a bucket load of money to sort out the problems but has shown that he can´t do it. Spurs will never be a top 4 team with him, no matter how much money the club spends.

Clive Allen needs to be installed as manager asap....

I don't know whether to laugh or cry at you... both in dispair of course :duh:

Think back the last 10 or 15 years and we've had so many at the helm come and go. We finally get a good manager in who builds us from the ground up into the best club in the league in the last 2 seasons besides the top 4... 2 games later into the new season you want him out... please fuck off :bang: Its fans like you that drag us down

[Spoilt4_the_spurs]

I think that we have some good buys in the window... but some were totally uneccessary, our weak point last year was our defence and we have clearly not sorted this out... what to do... what to do

[penfold_99]

I think a couple of things when against us last night

1. The ref being bias beyond belief
2. Players missing.
3. The main point jols tactics.

Jols tactics last night were awful. The squad had plays playing out of position. Whay play keano in right midfield when we had routledge on the bench? when he came on he was sticking in more crosses then kean in the whole match. But this was pointless as bent has been taken off. This was a pointless sub as our strikers where not getting the service.

At half time jols should have got a staple gun out and stapled malplanks b***ocks to the side line as our left side was never there along with our midfield.

I can see us playing better with a few players back but we do need a left side player, which would have helped break down everton.

[alex_futter]

Sack Jol and bring in Clive Allen, we might aswell send Spurs back to the dark ages. Getting rid of Jol will send Spurs back atleast ten years to the era of Christian Gross and Gerry Francis.
Martin Jol has been the most successful manager in more than 20 years, in just two and a half seasons he has transformed a mid table team, who's best premiership finish was 9th, to a top 5 team which is performing well in all cup competitions. I think people forget where we were on November 5th when Jol took over form Santini, a side struggling in the bottom six. The first season was spent getting rid of the deadwood Santini brought in, such as Atouba.
Jol was then able to build his own young and attack minded side. Yes, he may have had plenty of money to spend but which spurs manager hasnt, remember the fees spent on Rebrov and Ferdindand, even Thatcher cost £5million.
This was a 5 year plan and by sacking Jol we will have to start again. If 2 years ago somebody said to you, that spurs would be a top 5 side, with some of the best young talent in the country, you would have bitten their arm off. Now we just need to move up another level, this may take another 2 years, but i for one would be more than willing to what after the barren period spurs fan have had to suffer.
Martin Jol is the best man for this job, he has been linked to some of the biggest clubs in europe. And even if he was sacked, who do you honestly think would come to spurs and improve us further. I can only think of two possabilities, Steve Coppell (but would he be willing to come to spurs knowing a move to Man U could be just round the corner), and Jurgen Klinsmann whos dedication to sticking to a job is questionable.
At the moment we are struggling but we have lots of injuries, Chelsea struggled last year with there best centre back out, and they have the supposed "great one". After last year people expected better, but our young side now have that addded pressure of expection on their shoulders, and it is alot to hold. Arsenal's young guns have also struggled with the pressure.
This team will improve under Jol's guidance, and even if we dont make 4th this year, then atleast the team will have matured for the next season.

[RogerTCB]

Last night just highlighted so many problems:

Playing 4th choice LB and 4th&5th choice CB will quickly turn us into this seasons Newcastle.

Our players get walked through on the counter far too often.

Jol, much as I love him dearly, has a Brazillian attitude to
playing our best players out of position rather than use 'worse' taylor made players - witness Keane rather than Routy on the right: and it doesn't work for us.

Even after our defence is repaired, we need a settled team for a few games, a Roy Keane in CM and a Giggs on the left.

[SjoerdHoveSpur]

Each club has it badd spells..Sunderland away is always hard. A draw would be a good result...beaten in injury time. Last night was one of those games..bad luck..and good opposition. This is a hard leauge and each club has a bad spell.
We should se on saturday....if we don't win that one, we can call it a crisis and the pressure is on.

The funny pasrt is...if we win 5-0 against the rams..... everyone is positive again and praising Joll..just like last season. We should support him now!

[DiscoD1882]

Im glad there is still alot of people backing Jol. I am totally aghast at the ridiculous people on here who call for his head after every defeat. It is so short sighted. He has bought at least a taste of glory back to this club. Yes our midfield looked poor last night and i am not stupid or jol-blind enough to see that he needs to get some bollocks and change that around but lets keep some reality here. We started the same way last year and finished 5th in the league. I hope he drops Zokora or Jenas and brings in Hudd or Taraabt, or both. We need some killer passes in the midfield and people who are prepared to take palyers on. This just didnt happen last night. We missed lennon on the right and i think Berba really misses that fact that lennon turns players and drgas defenders away from him. Lets make an informed descion when we have a fully fit squad and not jump down Jols throat when we have a back line consisting of gardener, Rocha, Stalteri and Chimbonda as they are NOt our first choice line up. Oh and a Leftie would be nice! Keep the faith guys. As Yazz says......" The only way is Up"

[klinsmania72]

First!

Yesterday was bad play - and bad luck! Thats soccer!

But as Jack Nicklaus (nr.1 golfer ever) ones said:

"The more I practice and get better - the luckier I get!"

We have a lot of taltent in our 15 best players - we need better talent in our 15 - 25 best players.. Tottenham - always pending on a couple of star players. Get 25 good players - and they will all be stars.

Use the to srikers that shows most passion - (Defoe and Bent at the moment) - In with Taarabt and Routhie - out with Gardner - in Roocha. Sack the fitness team - and cheif of injuries.

and most important! Sack - Chris Houghten!

[GetSpurredOn]

I'm really torn at this point. I've always been one to criticise those who offer knee jerk reactions like 'Jol out' after only two games, but, I'm starting to lean in that direction. Jol has done well to get us from years of midtable obscurity to being real contenders for regular european football on the fringes of breaking the monopoly on the top four, but for all this season promised with the board's financial backing, we have looked clueless, disjointed and unbalanced in our first two games, away to one of the promoted teams and at home to a contender for the UEFA slots, both should have been targeted as wins to get us underway towards our target of Champions League football.
But it's not just the first two games that have shown our deficiences, we saw some signs of this last year losing out in big games and also underperforming against lower opposition through either tactical naievity and/or sometimes a lack of direction and organisation, and while the players are the ones out on the park, they really are only carrying out the coaching staff's orders. This points to problems with what they are doing in training when our biggest achilles heel is defending set pieces, and also we don't pose enough of a threat with our own. We have a number of players who are more than good enough in the air, yet we consistently get caught out, and all to rarely pose a threat at the other end. In the Sunderland game we looked to be lacking in ideas about how to break down what was effectively a goalkeeer who's never played with his defence, two centre halves with little(Nosworthy) or no(McShane) premiership experience, and two full backs who are more used to playing in midfield than at the back, yet we posed them hardly any problems. We had Zokora who for all his drive and enthusiasm has no end product to his game, so why aren't the coaching staff working on that. Jenas was kicked out of the game early on by Etuhu, and his athleticism and goal threat was nullified, for a player who can/could be as effective as Gerrard on his day it's not good enough, he's clearly not being pushed and developed enough in training to improve his consistency. Tainio doesn't have the pace or tricks in his locker to pose any threat out wide, whereas in the centre, he would less likely have been bullied out of the game by Etuhu. Malbranque looked the only one capable of causing any trouble, but Whitehead had an easy time because Steed's lack of a left foot meant his option was telegraphed, generally having to come back inside straight into the traffic. We have Taarabt who has been the star of the show pre-season and could offer something different out left so as to get at unfamiliar full back. Routledge may not have had the best pre-season, but have any of the starters been any better, and at least he would have been more comfortable out wide right, poses a genuine threat with his pace, trickery and a proper delivery for Berbatov to work off, because frankly with no service he looked totally uninterested. Huddlestone in the middle could have, maybe would have offered something else, a bit more guile and creativity to make Etuhu and Yorke think twice. I'd even be tempted to give O'Hara a go, he may also be a CM, but at least he's left footed and has pace, skill, and urgency. We just looked too sterile in the midfield, which meant our Strikers were isolated, and their midfield then got to concentrate on pressuring our defence, low and behold it eventually cracked.
All this tells me the training and tactics are not up to scratch, as yet. Will it change, possibly, but how long will it take. I know we're only two games in, but all too often last season was a similar story. Jol has spent big, but still the balance of players isn't right, and still we on't have that natural outlet on the left, many will point to Bale being injured, but an 18 year old untested at this level shouldn't be our only option with a left foot, and as for BAE, who knows what's happened there. This left sided problem has been a major issue for us for seasons now, and we're still no closer to sorting it. Don't know if this is down to Jol or Commolli, but clearly every fan wants it addressed, and it needs to be before we progress. Selection and tactics need looking at, and after these two games and the string of rollercoater performances last year, is Jol the man. I don't know, I'd like to think he is, but time is limited at this level and have we progressed since the 5th place of two years ago sufficintly considering the money spent. I hope he turns things round this week, for him aswell as us, hope he's the man to do it, but my faith is waining. The only other point is, if he does go this week, next week, next month, who's out there available that is any better?

[sunnydelight786]

Louis Van Gaal, Guus Hiddink, Ramos (Seville Manager), Capello, Lippi. All proven winners.

If you want to stay British then Hughes!!!

[GetSpurredOn]

Jol was then able to build his own young and attack minded side. If 2 years ago somebody said to you, that spurs would be a top 5 side, with some of the best young talent in the country, you would have bitten their arm off. Now we just need to move up another level, this may take another 2 years, but i for one would be more than willing to what after the barren period spurs fan have had to suffer.
Martin Jol is the best man for this job, he has been linked to some of the biggest clubs in europe. And even if he was sacked, who do you honestly think would come to spurs and improve us further. I can only think of two possabilities, Steve Coppell (but would he be willing to come to spurs knowing a move to Man U could be just round the corner), and Jurgen Klinsmann whos dedication to sticking to a job is questionable.


We have all these young players, Taarabt, Routledge, Boateng, natural attacking midfielders, Huddlestone probbaly our most creative, yet we continue with shocking team selection, a midfield with no creativity, flair or penetration.
As for Klinsmann, hadn't thought of him. He turned a distinctly average German outfit into a well drilled overperforming team, and I think his afinity for Spurs would/could be key.
Basically things can't go on like this, it is early, and it could all be turned round by saturday, hopefully so, but it needs changes to achieve that. More creativity and urgency in midfield to keep their midfield on the back foot, ease the pressure on defence and get our multi million pound strike force into games. We have a front line described by many as the best collection of strikers in the prem, and so far our leading scorer is our 4th/5th choice centre half who many thought would be gone by now after Kaboul's arival. Scary.

[GetSpurredOn]

Louis Van Gaal, Guus Hiddink, Ramos (Seville Manager), Capello, Lippi. All proven winners.

If you want to stay British then Hughes!!!

Fair point, there are some experienced successful managers there, but how many are already with clubs, and how many could we tempt. Hughes I definitely like, organised, gets the best from his players and seems to get them driven and motivated beyond some of their natural talent, plus if we got him, maybe he could bring MGP with him.

Here I am writing Jol off early, despite not liking it when that happens. Hope he turns it round and proves us wrong. Early days yet, but the money he's spent is like a timebomb. Success is now demanded more than ever, no excuses. If the squad is stretched due to injuries, they'll say he spent poorly strengthening the wrong areas.

[spursinhk]

Even after our defence is repaired, we need a settled team for a few games, a Roy Keane in CM and a Giggs on the left.

I think we need a Roy Keane in manager as well:bang:

[sunnydelight786]

Ramos had made no secret of the fact that he'd like to manage an English side.

Van Gaal i'm sure would like to have another shout at the big time, he's at AZ Alkmaar right now.

Hiddink is the Russian manager, would be difficult to get him i think.

Capello and Lippi are free agents but i think the language barrier would be a problem with them.

I said to a few mates after the Scum semi final debacle in Jan that Jol has taken us as far as he can, i got slated for it as no doubt i will be now on this forum. Nobody believed me then. I simply said if we had Hughes, Moyes or Big Sam in charge i'm sure they would get better out of these set of players. I still believe that now!

[Timspurs]

Just watched the game on Sky due to work last night and i was embarrassed and shocked at our performance.We had 66% of the possesion but created little.All huff and puff but no idea!! We are critics in our own right but i do feel Jol's tactics and selection is a bit puzzling at times.Ultimately the players have to stand up and be counted which sadly they dont seem to have a clue,fight or any passion at the moment. Maybe its time to play our younger players,if we are losing with our senior players cant be any worse losing with these guys then.Jenas needs to be dropped IMO and Keane up front and NOT in midfield.
Sort it Jol!!!!!!!!

[NayimsSocks]

I sat watching the game with 2 everton supporters last night who lambasted me over our summer spending and what we had to show for it.
The fact is that I as all supporters expected to start the season strongly and its all very disappointing but the reasons are pretty evident.
LB - No Benoit AE, Lee or Bale
CB - No King, Dawson and now Kaboul
RW - No Lennon
Wrong midfield.
Jenas is to physically weak and Zokora needs to step up to the plate. He goes missing in games.
Steed cuts in all the time and tries hard but it causes us to be narrow and therefore easy to defend against.
The strikers are simply not to blame but the Bent transfer has put extra pressure on us to perform when we did not really need it.
Jol must be wandering what's going on with our injuries. How much of the money we have spent is on the pitch?
I would love to drop JJ or Zok, put Kaboul or King in his place with Prince alongside. Bale on one wing and Lennon on the other. Lee or BAE LB, King & Daws/Kaboul CB's and Chimbo RB.
Berbs & whoever, I don't really care who. They are all quality depending on the team we are against.
Until this happens (or similar) and we still have all these injuries I cannot say Jol is the wrong man. Curtis Davies is a must in the short term. I used to go and see him play at Luton and he is probably the best player they have had in years.
What a mess but it will get better. Keep the faith! COYS!

[sunnydelight786]

£8-10m for a short term problem is not a must, the creativity in midfiels is. Davies is a good player but do we need to spend another £8-10m on a defender when we are so lacking in midfield?

[keepthefaith]

I said it after the Sunderland game and I'll say it again, Jenas is being played in a different way than last season, Jol has trusted him to be the one on the ball, to pick it up from the defense and start the attacks, basically the Carrick role.
There are two problems with this:
1. He is not inventive enough or a good enough passer.
2. Jenas is good at making runs into the box and supporting strikers, this new role has taken a lot of that away, how many efforts at goal did Jenas have in the last 2 games? I dont remember any.
This is making Jenas look really bad or worse than he is.

That role should be given to Hudd. I really dont understand Jol's lack of confidence in this guy, he is now an experienced U21 International and his partnership with Zokora (who I think is underrated) looks very promising.

Derby on Sat must be Hudd/Zokora and play Routledge so we can get some width to Berby/Bent (latter made some outstanding runs), its either Keane or Steed for me not both.

[downs]

I haven't posted in a while. Immediately after the game last night I was seething with anger and was leaning to the "replace jol" side of things. However, after a shit nights sleep I have calmed down and realised that sacking jol will only set us back. Take everton as a case in point, stood by moyes after a shit relegation scrap of a season to be rewarded with champs league qualification the next.

Even if we do appoint a new manager, ramos, hughes or whoever. What happens if after two years woe betide he loses a few matches, do we sack him and then replace him with some new flavour of the month. The point being that a managerial merry go round gets you nowhere. We as spurs fans should only be all to aware of that. If you remember back to the nineties. Plenty of managers with new, fresh, big ideas and a decade of stagnation and medicority.

There is no doubt that jol has made some mistakes in team selection and tactics. We desperately need width and the players are there to provide it, he just has to play them (Routledge and Taraabt). The case of the defence is just damn bad luck. Look at the left back positions, having 3 good left backs would be considered a pretty healthy situation, its not possible to legislate for injuries to all three. And to suggest that the cover isn't good enough is ridiculous, because the cover is fucking injured. Its the same as suggesting that our strikeforce is superb and well covered until all four get injured and then the cover we have isn't good enough. You can only have a finite number of players covering any one position and if they all get injured you're up shit creek a little. A similar situation occurs at the centre of defence, what would the pool defence be like if they had no finnan, carragher, agger, hyppia.

So by all means criticise Jol, I think as fans we have that right. However, his sacking were it to happen would only set us back.

[Issac]

Ya. So if if we lose the next 8 matches, let's sit down and reevaluate Jol's position.

[sunnydelight786]

Downs, agree with you reference sacking Jol now is not an option, but you cannot get away from the fact that we are massively underachieving under him. After spending almost £100m in 3 years we are no closer to bridging the gap to the scum down the road than 2 years ago. With the money he has spent challenging for the champions league positions was a must for this season. To do that we HAD to start off on the right foot, we have'nt! Come next summer if we have'nt qualifided for the CL then i'm afraid he has to go.

[farrukh]

Downs, you do make a good point about Moyes - Everton stuck with him when the going was tough, and they are clearly benefitting from that stability. i'm quite sure Levy won't be making and knee-jerk decisions about the management, so I reckon we have Jol for some time yet.

let's put this into a little perspective though. most prem teams would struggle without all their three left backs and their three best centre backs, and i'm sure Wenger and Fergie would'nt panic if they lost the first two games. And i'm not sure it's as black and white as to say that if we aren't in CL by the end of the season then Jol has to go. yes, we've spent loads, but so have the current top four, and they are getting better players for their money. we are still essentially playing catch up and i would be pleased if we were to close the gap on the top four, which would then give us real hope of breaking into the elite.

[StokeSpur]

Ok time to put some things in to perspective.

Everyone who is saying Jol out now are wrong, I am gutted how we have started and i do blame Jol but now is not the time for Jol to go, it would be no good because it would take us on a backward step. The players still have confidence in him and also Comolli has invested big on the Jol train and will not sack him, yet.

That said, what we can do is voice our views and thoughts as to what exacty is going wrong for him or infact with him.

Some people will make excuses from injurys to even Chris Houton but at the end of the day there is only one man who picks the team, bench, squad, and subsequently the substitutions, so what is going wrong? why are we seeing what we are seeing on the pitch?

Its plain to se that Jol has his favoured personel who will play regardless, its also plain to see that Jol has certain tactics he likes to employ and has his own views on players playing wherever.
He likes the 'total football' aproach where by any player can play in any possition.

When i watched us at Sunderland, the first thing that struck me was the team selection and the bench, in defence i wondered why on earth (after a great preseason all accross the back) Rocha was behing Gardner and why Gardner wasnt at left back, why TT was out wide right and why we had two strikers on the bench and no Taarabt or Routledge, it became obvious that Jol wanted a tough, holding midfield, ie; negative 'lets not get beat' approach, imo this was totaly wrong and totaly unaxeptable from a man who wants to lead us to the CL as Sunderland are a new team of average players, their Goalie hadnt played with any of the back line before, had Jol been possotive he would have seen that they were there for the taking if we attacked them constantly down the wings.
His substitutions for the game we as bemusing as the players looked with each other for most of the game, would you take Berba off? the only guy capable of changing a game in a heartbeat? why did he give Hudd a few mins at the end when he had taken Bent off, surely Hudd and Bents games are made for each other?

Anyway after a few angry anti Jol posts its dont panic its only the first game of the season, Sunderland is a tough match, you'll all be saying otherwise when we beat Everton.

Ok, we'll see what the master comes up with for tonights line up, were at home and weve got to make up for Saturdays farce, whats the line up? Taarbat? Routledge? balance? skill? ohh no its the same one as Saturday except Keanos now a right midfielder.
Ok, lets give him the benifit and see how he's fired the boys up, lets see if the boys can handle the expectations, i mean its Everton at home, thats not too much to ask from a top 4 wanabe side is it?

Well i'm sorry to say that after this game i am totaly confused by Jol, his tactics, his thoughts and his idea of balance.
Teemu is not a right winger.
Keano is NOT a midfielder of any discription.
Zoko is NOT a left back.
Rocha is better than Gardner.
Gardner is better left than Stalti.

Our players dont have the mentality to play the system he wants, we need to stick to a simple 442 with players playing in their best possitions week in week out.
We have too many players in the comfort zone, Robbo, Chimb, JJ, Zoko, Berbs, Keane all know they are 1st on the team sheet, why not give Cerny, Hudd, Routledge and Taarabt a go? their eager to please and will bust a gut trying to prove they should play the next game and while doing it will bring balance and some cohesion, at the very least keep a formation that everyone is comfortable with, he has been here long enough to have at least a system worked out that all the players understand and work with, all i see is the long ball to Berba all the time or headless chickens just passing it around without any penertration.
Wheres the passion? wheres the winning mentality? wheres the winning tactics?

The big man has got to start learning from his mistakes, if he does then i have no problem with him staying but if he dosnt then i would give him till the end of the season while i kept an eye on who was avaiable.

Total football, total bollox.

[Jolly_Spud]

We're all pretty down at the minute, but getting rid of Jol would be a big mistake I think. One of the reasons for our good progress over the last few seasons is stability of coaching staff in conjunction with the board.

One thing that is certain is that the team will come good - we all know it will, it's just frustrating that we are not doing justice by ourselves at the minute and tossers in the media and other supporters are making hay while the sun shines.

For what it's worth, I think there are a couple of reasons why we have made a poor start:

1. Our pre-season opposition - were they really good enough to get us up to speed in preperation for the Prem? I do not think so - the O's probably gave us out best workout, Torino and a couple of SA teams that are not exactly ripping up their leagues are not good enough opposition. I understand the logic of gentle warm up for a long season, bit it has not worked out.

2. Defensive injuries - exeptional circumstances. When fit we have a very good defence.

3. The midfield - this is where the long running problem lies in our team. We have a lot of good central midfielders, but very few very good ones.

I also think that any team cannot play 3 strikers unless they have world class centre midfielders and we do not.

I think we must grit our teeth, not panic and ride out this tough period, the team will come good.

[jenko]

clive allen? Don't be an arsehole you're whole life!

[spursfish]

i love martin!!!!!!!!!! i think hteir should be an unwritten rule in football, that as a fan, your not aloud to comment on such situations until 24 hours after a game....
Martin is a good manager, who seems to believe that we can exist without a decent left mid ( malbranque comes ina ll the time- not to say he isn't good).. we miss king horribly, but perhaps we equally miss lennon. Jenas looks even classier this season, but the middle of the field is getting so congested he's forced to play unthreatening balls...the boos directed at jenas yesterady were perhaps the least warrented... jenas's position and technique relies on things opening up around him and they simmply were'nt- hence his frustration...so as fans we need to give him extra support.... he'll get forward more. Understandably Jol hasn't been able to field an improved huddlestone- which is perhaps a mistake. Not placing taraabt on the bench is an utter mystery... he would be a great player to bring in around the 60th minute,as the strikers and the midfield begin to isolate from each other. I think getting these two players, ( and the confident boateng) may be critical if we wish to get this season going. Berbatov is out of touch, he's loosing out to average defenders, when robinson's long balls come to him. This may sound ridiculous, but this is destructive. Not only did it frustrate defenders last year when he effortlessly brought down balls in the final 3rd, but it earnt us vital possession in the final 3rd. If Berba sharpens up in this respect we will improve.
Witht his said, i think think our performance can be put down to injuries; tiny aspects of peoples games not being therre; and to a lesser extent Jol's slight tactical errors... i was swearing and blindiing, asking for players heads off lasst night, but i think all we can do is chill out and hope these parts fall into place.

[Jewisrael]

I can't believe this Gardner bashing!! He was by far our best man on the pitch. Zoko and Keane were decent as well, but Jenas... Where to begin, he's in my opinion the most overrated player in our squad. The player is talented as hell, but just does not show it on the pitch.

[Kingstheman]

I will stand by Jol, Comolli, Ingelthorpe, Levy, Moniz and the players.

We started off like this last season. My confidence in the current set up remains firm.

Yes we have been poor - but even last season we had two atrocious periods and did really well.