In defence of Jol

[provence]

I suspect the ‘Jol out-brigade’ will be marching in numbers today after the second defeat of two and a disappointing start to the season. But in my opinion it is still ridiculous to blame the manager.

I will admit that no points from two games is disappointing when we had every right to expect six if we are to make an assault on the top 4. But we have to take into account that we are without four very important starters. <o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Our current injury situation is no less than ridiculous. The preferred central defence partnership is out, and the number three went out injured against Everton after 17 minutes. We are without a left back even though we have three in our books. And then there is Lennon.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
In a league as competitive as the English Premier you can maybe cope with a couple of key players being out injured. But when it is twice that, it will affect the game plan. It will also affect the team when you have to play with what can only be described as ideally a 9^th choice central defence partnership and a makeshift left back who normally seldom plays even at his preferred right back position.<o:p></o:p>
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We have the most talented squad in decades. But still, you can’t have five equally talented central defenders and four left backs to make up for the current injury predicaments.<o:p></o:p>
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Last season we also relied on attacking wide a lot with backs/wingers/wide midfielders in each flank who knew each others movements. This year so far, we haven’t been able to do that. And that puts too much pressure on the central midfielders. But more important, it means that we have had to adapt to a very different way of playing…which might work result wise in friendlies against continental, African or lower league opposition. But the margin between winning or losing in the PL is so small that we were bound to struggle.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
You might argue that we didn’t have to alter the game plan. We could have played some of the youngsters or more untried options on the wings. But that would be ‘Monday morning management’. We would still be depleted in defence. We would still not have the interplay understanding between the different sections of the team. And in attack, if you were realistic, wouldn’t you also opt for playing three of our (on paper) impressive forwards instead?<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
And that brings me (at last) to my point. I don’t think we can blame Jol for the season opening so far. He has done what we could expect with the current possibilities. But he will have some choices to make before the next game. Because, even though I will not fault his decisions so far, they haven’t worked out. And the injury situation will not change in the immediate future. <o:p></o:p>
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This means making a choice of forwards, going back to playing two. It means maybe trying Routledge and Taarabt on the wings. And it might also mean giving Jenas a rest and trying Huddlestone in his place.<o:p></o:p>
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I would like to finish on a positive note. Because we have to focus on the positives. Despite all the predicaments mentioned above, we didn’t need a lot of luck to have had a couple of points on the board. We were unlucky to have a 93-minute goal against us at Sunderland who didn’t deserve a win more than us. Had the referee (as he should have) noticed Carsley’s blatant foul on Zokora in the wall resulting in Everton’s third goal. And had Berbatov’s header been an inch to the left instead of hitting the post…well.<o:p></o:p>
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Also, we have our goalkeeper back. I didn’t necessarily agree with the criticism Robinson endured last season. But he has been impressive in the first couple of games. Also Malbranque has done quite well when he stays out on the left. <o:p></o:p>
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So, all in all, I’m not that depressed even though I had hoped for a different start to the season. The team played better for large parts of the Everton game compared to the uninspired performance up north. Of course, the team still needs to find a winning formula in the current injury circumstances. But I have every confidence in both the players and the manager. Come on you Spurs.

[Geez]

Very good post. :clap:

This means making a choice of forwards, going back to playing two. It means maybe trying Routledge and Taarabt on the wings. And it might also mean giving Jenas a rest and trying Huddlestone in his place.I'd go with that.

[bigspurs]

Just don't expect anything and you wont feel so gutted when they let you down (again and again). It's the only way to survive as a Spurs/England fan!

[Vegas]

Fair play - be ready for a swarm of insults!

3 points & a clean sheet badly needed this weekend. Start with defence (whoever it is we actually have - at this rate I'll be playing CB) and build from there as the footballing cliche goes. Points are all that matters, so find the bus and park it in front of goal - whoever the opposition. I don't care that it's only Derby - they'll be well up for beating us. At least Dawson should be back. Is anyone else coming back?

I'd start Defoe - I think he's right for this time. If Boateng's fit then play him, too - he seems the kind of player who's up for it and from what we've heard can offer some tougher tackling. I think Jol might/ should/ could start with Routledge - he may not be great but he's got some width. I'd also go with Bent up front alongside Defoe - we need power & pace not trickery right now. If we're playing well, halting the boos and a few goals up then bring in Berba to get up some confidence.

Screw pretty football or the egos of some of our players - 3 points is the most important thing this weekend. And the same every match until we get things right.

That's my masterplan for the moment - i'm sure it would fall flat on its arse and it's full of pot holes- but then we're doing that already.

[JohnnyA]

I agree, v good post.

Couple of things, i think Jol should have put huddlestone on as the strikers had no service and we needed that creative spark! I have never been a huge critic of Jenas as his workrate is phenominal but he was poor last night, giving the ball away and always going backwards!

We have been unlucky with injuries no denying it, but i feel sorry for Jol as there is nothing he can do when the players he picks cannot make 3 successive passes as was the case last night, we had more possession but if you watch chimbonda & Jenas continually turned in circles not knowing what to do with the ball i.e no movement and out of ideas.

We didnt play badly tho just need the roll of the ball like Everton were getting last night!

Anyway rant over, just needed to vent some thoughts! COYS

[PeterboroughYids]

Great post. 100% with you

[leetotty]

I am surprised people were expecting a win from tottenham last night with the back 4 we were playing, to win in any league all areas of the team need to be strong and its painfully obvious that our defence is weak at the moment. The number of freekicks we gave Everton was a real problem, with Gardner, Stalteri and Malbranque proving their own inadequacies in defending.

To put our season so far in persepctive, we are in exactly the same position as last year after playing these 2 games. We lost last year at home to everton and this year we did the same. Swapping Sunderland for Sheff Utd, we lost away at Sheff Utd last year and we lost at Sunderland.

So using the same analogy, Derby at home, is AKA Watford at home, so to be as good as last year we need to win that game. We then play Manu away losing last year to them. So to be in the same position as last year after these 4 games, is for us to have 3 points.

So IMHO we are only as good last year, no worse and there are plenty of games to improve upon from last year yet.

[ollie_spurs]

Decent post and agree that our injuries are bad at the moment. Disagree about 'having our goalkeeper back'. He needs a lot of work on crossing as we all know, why is this not happening? Is this a problem with Robbo or our goalkeeping coach, who is failing to improve him in this area?

As good as the cross was for their first goal, a commanding keeper would have dealt with it.

[Adam]

Are you taking the piss? His lack of any form of tactical knowledge has cost us six points, not the lack of a defence, simply his tactics-for the last half an hour our formation was

........................Robinson.................. .......

..........Rocha.........Gardner................Zok ora

...........................Jenas.................. ..........

..Chimbonda........Malbranque.............Keane

..Routledge........Berbatov....................Def oe

That is an absolute joke of a formation and in my opinion is an insult to the intelligence of the fans who know that you simply CANNOT win a game without a shape, especially when the opposition are playing 4-4-2.

I havent been this depressed for a long while and it is purely down to Jol-its not like its his second game in charge of us, its the second game of his FOURTH season with us, none of which have seen us do anything more than achieve the position that our squad says we should.

The players are there for us to suceed, we just need someone that can put them into a proper formation.

[justfookinhitit]

If anyone had said a couple of months ago we would be starting the season without King, Dawson, Lennon, Lee and a left winger (assuming Bale will play there) I'd have been expecting us to struggle. Put those guys back in the team and I think we will fly.

I feel for Jol - the injuries keep piling up and we start the season on the back foot. But it is a long season so I'm keeping the faith.

And as for the comment on another thread about kicking Jol out and installing Clive Allen as manager ..........:duh::stupid:

[Stavi]

we should of signed barton or parker. just someone with experience that can drag a team from midfield and have a go. i bet if we'd signed barton we'd not be in this position

[Sanj]

Good post and some good points.

Another point to consider is that with a new makeshift defence (and remember chelsea struggled when missing 1 defender last year), the defence is playeing deeper than it should, and this is pulling the midfield deeper - leaving the strikers isolated. Playing a winger (routledge/ taraabt or even YES - Ghaly) will surely help as it will provide a link from midfield to attack, and it will give opposition some different problems.
However i have to disagree with some of the posts of Malbranque and Jenas and upto a point Chimbonda.
Malbranque has seen more ball than any other player in teh last 2 games, yet his final ball and even his passing has been extremely poor. Routledge put more dangerous balls into teh box in his 10 min cameo than Malbranque has in 2 games. As our creative / attacking player malbranque HAS TO provide.
Jeenas - getting a lot of stick unjustly. He's worked hard, sprayed the ball wide well, shown for the ball but has very few otpions and is trying to force the play. Also the oppo in the last 2 games has put 9 men behind the ball when we have possession and Jenas has no options due to lack of movement and a lack of a winger.
Chimbonda was very poor on Saturday. Yesterday he looked more up for it and was attacking a little better - however i would still like to see him beat his opposite number on the outside and get to teh byline before crossing.

[SamR]

If anyone had said a couple of months ago we would be starting the season without King, Dawson, Lennon, Lee and a left winger (assuming Bale will play there) I'd have been expecting us to struggle. Put those guys back in the team and I think we will fly.

I feel for Jol - the injuries keep piling up and we start the season on the back foot. But it is a long season so I'm keeping the faith.

And as for the comment on another thread about kicking Jol out and installing Clive Allen as manager ..........:duh::stupid:

I agree we have been very unlucky on the injury front.. but we seem to let in soft goals all the time. A lot from set pieces especially. Last night 2 of the goals came about from crosses. Same with Sunderland. Last season as well we let in a lot from this. If we sort this out we be a lot better off.

[Sanj]

is this not the formation chelsea adopted in the FA cup against us when they came back from 3-1 down?
Sorry, you know better than Jol - better get your CV into the club ASAP !!!!

[Sanj]

but when we don't have our 1st, 2nd or 3rd choice centre back or our 1st, 2nd, 3rd choice left back then what do you expect (the laft back slot is where we are conceding the goals from - sunderland and 2 yesterday) !!!

[kornie_bizkit]

Just through reading some of the posts on here and people should put away the noose for Jol. People saying that we weren't in the game against Everton must not have been watching the same game, we were smashing them down the right and spent alot of time in their half. There goals were lucky 2 set pieces and the victims of poor defending. The 3rd goal should not have been allowed since when can you push someone out of the way of a shot like Johnson did to Zokora ( have another look at it). Jenas out Huddlestone in, leave Zokora in, Routledge on the right and Berbatov and Keane up front. Malbranque has impressed me good engine and skill (we don't need a lefty) wait untill Bale is in and there is the overlapping like the the right. Thats about it, when the injury concerns are over we will be top 5.

[NeverRed]

Are you taking the piss? His lack of any form of tactical knowledge has cost us six points, not the lack of a defence, simply his tactics-for the last half an hour our formation was

........................Robinson.................. .......

..........Rocha.........Gardner................Zok ora

...........................Jenas.................. ..........

..Chimbonda........Malbranque.............Keane

..Routledge........Berbatov....................Def oe

That is an absolute joke of a formation and in my opinion is an insult to the intelligence of the fans who know that you simply CANNOT win a game without a shape, especially when the opposition are playing 4-4-2.

I havent been this depressed for a long while and it is purely down to Jol-its not like its his second game in charge of us, its the second game of his FOURTH season with us, none of which have seen us do anything more than achieve the position that our squad says we should.

The players are there for us to suceed, we just need someone that can put them into a proper formation.

Thats football and a lot of managers choose or are forced to change tactics not just by substitutions, but by telling players to hold back, cover or push on.

As soon as everton were 2 goals up they went 4-5-1 (or 6-3-1 if you like) with the players they had on the pitch or didn't you notice that? They shut up shop as extremely effectively as they can.

Think back the last 10 or 15 years and we've had so many in charge come and go. We finally get a good manager in who builds us from the ground up into the best club in the league in the last 2 seasons besides the top 4... 2 games later into the new season some silly fans call him tactically inept due to 2 losses????! Eek Talk about ungrateful and inpatient

[TheDutchMaster]

All this talk for Jol out! does make you think...

It's a bit to soon if you ask me... If so who would you replace him with? Clive Allen... I dont think so...

There is one man I can think of...

There will be no lack of spirit!

No lack of passion!

They will fight for every ball until the last kick of the game!

They will play for each other!

And if your not performing... see ya later!

Paul Jewell.

[jo_leon]

Going from an amazing high Sat morning waiting for the season to kick off and the low I am now in, is now what I expected from the start of this season!

I'm really not convinced Huddlestone is our answer in midfield and just hope Dawson and KPB are fit for Saturday.

My starting line up if possible would be;

Robbo

Chimbonda Dawson Kaboul Rocha


Jenas Zokora KPB Tarabat


Bent Berba


Subs: Cerny, Gardner, Malbranque, Keane, Defoe

Malbranque should be a squad player at most, I really dont think he's got the necessary quality for a starting role in a top 4 team.

Really really want us to bring in Curtis Davies and get rid of Gardner, Murphy, Ghaly and Mido.

My 2 pence worth!

[mog123]

Well I think old Big Tone had a great game at the back, why are we not talking about that!?

[worcestersauce]

Can we just try to be objective, someone said we have been unlucky on the injury front but we seem to let in soft goals,
that is unfortunately what happens with a disrupted defence, and further disrupted during the game with Kaboul going off.

We will be a better team with a left back, We will be a better team with Dawson back, we will be a better team with Ledley back, we will be a better team with Lennon back, how much better will we be with all of them back.

To be fair Everton are a very good side and once they had the 3 goals they were going to protect it and lets face it they are among the best at doing that, it is one of the hardest jobs to score against a resolute Everton defence.

There is room for optimism because we can see the solution,
I have this morning bought a goat and this afternoon I am gong to slaughter it in a bloody sacrifice to any god I can find to remove the curse that is upon us, I suggest everybody does the same. (p.s. I am told that in the absence of goats then sheep will suffice however pigs make far too much noise)

[wee_yid]

we should of signed barton or parker. just someone with experience that can drag a team from midfield and have a go. i bet if we'd signed barton we'd not be in this position

err, yes we would be. They're both injured so wouldn't be playing either.

[BringBack_leGin]

this is what I have been reduced to!

Robinson? Goooood
Chimbonda? Baaaad
Stalteri? Baaaaaaaaaaaaaad
Kaboul? Goooood
Gardner? Baaaaaaaaaaaaad
Steed? Baaaaaaaaad
Keane? Baaaaaaaaad
Jenas? Baaaaaaaad
Zokora? Baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaad
Bent? Baaaaaad
Berbatov? Baaaaad
Rocha? Baaaad
Routledge? Gooood
Defoe? Gooood
Jol? Baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaad

Rant over

[Stavi]

i meant one or the other and hypothesised not considering their current status of fitness wee-yid. nice one for being pedantic mate.

[ravo]

Good post mate. I'm still smarting from last night as well, but you have responded intelligently. The injury situation is seriously bad.

Also agree that we should maybe try Hudd and Jenas/Zok in the middle with the wingers you mentioned. This is mainly due to the fact that our defence is so makeshift at the moment.

COYS

[BringBack_leGin]

I have this morning bought a goat and this afternoon I am gong to slaughter it in a bloody sacrifice to any god I can find to remove the curse that is upon us, I suggest everybody does the same. (p.s. I am told that in the absence of goats then sheep will suffice however pigs make far too much noise)

then you can make sandwiches with the meat and they can be accompanied by a nice spreading of worcestersauce!

[Fezzer]

All top teams have a strong spine through the team.

Ours last night was
Robinson - ???
Gardner - Not top 6 player
Rocha - ????
Jenas - Waste of space.
Zoraka - Better one out of a bad duo
Berbs - Top drawer but has started slow this season
Bent - OK but did we need him. I think Defoe deserves a run.

With the duo of Jenas & Zoraka we are not going to win things. Ideally we need a player with a bit of steel and creative player.

You look at Liverpool(Gerrard), Chelsea(Lampard), Man Utd(Ronaldo) they all have midfielders that can score 10+ goals a season. Our whole midfield won't scrore 10+ goals this season.

This is where we need to be improving not up front.

[Adam]

is this not the formation chelsea adopted in the FA cup against us when they came back from 3-1 down?
Sorry, you know better than Jol - better get your CV into the club ASAP !!!!

Im sorry, but who's to say that i, or anyone else on this site for that matter, doesnt?

Martin Jol is a football manager for the sole reason that he was a football player, who then showed an interest in coaching. I guarantee that had he at first not been a player then he wouldnt be a manager, but unfortunately in the common game, football is a business that you can only enter from being inside it already.

Isnt it funny that the one big time manager that wasnt a footballer is the best manager in the world? Coincidence? 100% not.

This argument that people know less about football than Jol has to stop because its just a cheap way out of not having a real point.

[tobyb24]

Last nites game was awful. what is worrying me is the lack of passion in the team half the players just didnt seem to care! I really like Martin Jol and want him to succed with us! However Im more than abit worried now about some of his tactics such as playing Keane on the right of midfeild! I cant remember a time when he has played there before! Specially when we have Routledge on the bench who is a natural wide player! If he is going to play 3 strikers need to play Keane in the free role! I think we are unlucky at the moment with injuries and we do need to go and buy another centre back I think Davies would be good, as its obvouis Ledley wont play more than 20 games a season from now on! Think we seriously need to get rid of some of the deadwood in the squad! Must say its not looking good for the season ahead. Think we need to stick with MJ for abit longer after all he has done well with us since taking over and deserves a chance to get things right

[2bearis2do]

Are you taking the piss? His lack of any form of tactical knowledge has cost us six points, not the lack of a defence, simply his tactics-for the last half an hour our formation was

........................Robinson.................. .......

..........Rocha.........Gardner................Zok ora

...........................Jenas.................. ..........

..Chimbonda........Malbranque.............Keane

..Routledge........Berbatov....................Def oe

That is an absolute joke of a formation and in my opinion is an insult to the intelligence of the fans who know that you simply CANNOT win a game without a shape, especially when the opposition are playing 4-4-2.

I havent been this depressed for a long while and it is purely down to Jol-its not like its his second game in charge of us, its the second game of his FOURTH season with us, none of which have seen us do anything more than achieve the position that our squad says we should.


The players are there for us to suceed, we just need someone that can put them into a proper formation.

Do you really think BMJ thinks we CAN win games WITHOUT shape?!

Deary me.

You think Chelski/Man URe or Ar$e can still get results when they've 6 preferred defensive players out injured?

We've played the best footy and got the best results we've had in a least a decade under Jol. Now he has half a team to compete with and we all think he's shite?!

Fickle Spurs fans? You bet.

[2bearis2do]

Are you taking the piss? His lack of any form of tactical knowledge has cost us six points, not the lack of a defence, simply his tactics-for the last half an hour our formation was

........................Robinson.................. .......

..........Rocha.........Gardner................Zok ora

...........................Jenas.................. ..........

..Chimbonda........Malbranque.............Keane

..Routledge........Berbatov....................Def oe

That is an absolute joke of a formation and in my opinion is an insult to the intelligence of the fans who know that you simply CANNOT win a game without a shape, especially when the opposition are playing 4-4-2.

I havent been this depressed for a long while and it is purely down to Jol-its not like its his second game in charge of us, its the second game of his FOURTH season with us, none of which have seen us do anything more than achieve the position that our squad says we should.

The players are there for us to suceed, we just need someone that can put them into a proper formation.

Read this and learn something...

Robinson, not at fault really.

A reserve back four was painfully evident tonight and will cost BMJ big time. We've 6 players injured ahead of Gardner/Stalteri and Rocha. So what can BMJ do? His starting back 4 would be a million miles away from tonights:

Chimb/King/Kaboul/Lee

Not a bad back four at all and with time they could gel into quite a unit. We need that solid back four foundation. So what can he do? You can't play unfit players and if thats all we've got in reserve, well, we're screwed for the first month of the season.

So we need to buy.

Personally I thought AG had a decent game and is a better left back than he is a CD.
I'm not sold on CHIMB. He really seems disinterested. Sell him to Chelski and invest the 10mil in a very decent right back.

Midfield: JJ and Zok does NOT work. One or the other but not both together. They are too similiar as players. Full stop.

I'm also crossing over to the JJ Basher brigade tonight and have no intention of advocating any of his so called abilities on this site again. Unless BMJ tries him without Zok and we can see what he is really made of. (It might be the worst idea I've ever had but its his last chance)
Stop playing Keane on either wing. Just stop it. Thats not his position. always play players in their 'natural' position. Thats rubbish management and team selection. IMO
Steeeeed had a decent game IMO

We can't create. Thats just appalling at this level with the quality of attack we've got. BMJ has to grab his nuts and go with at least two from Tarabt, Steed, Wayne or Hudd. At the moment we only have one of these on at any one time. at least Wayne added a bit of spark tonight.

The same goes for Defoe, at least he was up for it. BMJ has a major problem on his hands, he CAN NOT play 3 up front. It painfully doesn't work. Frankly they get in each others space and none seem to be able to play 'their own natural' game.

It says a lot that the best players (for me) tonight were AG and Steed.

How much better off would that team have looked with a Petrov on the left and a Matt Taylor or Baines behind him?

Who indeed does decide who ultimately should be bought by the club? Is it BMJ? is it DC? What happened to buying the finishing piece of a jigsaw that actually fits into place?

BMJ has some serious work to do before the end of this transfer window and not just on the pitch. But it doesn't mean JOL OUT you goon.

[gaganelov]

How many good passes? 3? 4? ....Midfielders suck.

[danielneeds]

Talk of Jol out is simply ludicrous, its two games in for christ's sake, all these d*ck heads phoning 606 make us look like a laughing stock, as bad as the west ham fans calling for Curbishley's head after one game.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>

It is clear that our defensive injuries have taken their toll, but last night we lacked shape, ideas, substance, it was like looking at spurs team from the mid-90’s. In the build up to the opening game I saw a lot of people here calling on Jol to play three strikers, but if you look at the evidence last night, it didn’t get the best out of any of them, whilst leaving our fullbacks totally overloaded on the flanks.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
We have to go back to 442 even if it means leaving out one of Keane or Bent, and we have to give either Routledge or Taraabt a chance (preferably both). The one decent cross we put in last night was from Chimbonda, and even that was fairly deep, yet it resulted in Berbs hitting the post. Quite simply, in 120 minutes of football against two fair sides we have failed to get behind the fullback and put in any telling centers, what is the point in having great strikers if they get no service?<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
It will get better, Jol knows his best shape and personnel. Its just so frustrating that we have thrown away the chance to get out of the blocks quickly and build up and aura success, something which would make it even easier to beat middling teams.<o:p></o:p>

[StockSpur]

i think you missed out kabouls very impressive start.

[nav007_2000]

Jenas needs to be sold. He aint fit enough to play for Tottenham. He gets pushed of the ball, loses the ball easily, can't make a penetrating pass and his set pieces are a whole load of crap.

So what if he runs up and down the pitch and has a great engine, he doesn't do enough on the ball.

I would choose Ghaly over Jenas anyday of the week. Georgies are laughing their heads off at getting 8mill for him.

[Timspurs]

Just watched the game on Sky due to work last night and i was embarrassed and shocked at our performance.We had 66% of the possesion but created little.All huff and puff but no idea!! We are critics in our own right but i do feel Jol's tactics and selection is a bit puzzling at times.Ultimately the players have to stand up and be counted which sadly they dont seem to have a clue,fight or any passion at the moment. Maybe its time to play our younger players,if we are losing with our senior players cant be any worse losing with these guys then.Jenas needs to be dropped IMO and Keane up front and NOT in midfield.
Sort it Jol!!!!!!!!

[onthetwo]

you were doing fine until the comments about Robinson....his handling of crosses last night was TERRIBLE...he is becoming the new Jim Leighton. He needs to resolve the problem quickly before it becomes a crisis.

[glenda]

why the f""K didnt we buy diego,when he went from porto to werder bremem for only 4 mil,a proper playmaker!! the money we spent on bent should have gone on a world class midfielder,the type that bring leadership & fantasy!!

i done my weeks money to look at that dross lastnite!! wtf!!!

[gloryglory]

we should of signed barton or parker. just someone with experience that can drag a team from midfield and have a go. i bet if we'd signed barton we'd not be in this position

Absolutely. Then we'd have Barton on our injury list too. He'd make a real difference from there.:roll:

Original post - good points. I was gutted last night, but you can't expect Jol to be prepared to play without his 3 best centre backs and all 3 left backs (not to mention Lennon).

To put it into perspective, would anybody blame Ferguson if United defended poorly and they were missing Ferdinand, Vidic, Brown, Evra, Heinze and Silvestre, plus Ronaldo? That's the equivalent, and would leave a defence of Evans-Neville-Pique-O'Shea.

Or it's Chelsea without Terry, Carvalho, Ben Haim, Cole, Bridge and one more full back - let's say Johnson - leaving their back line as Diarra-Alex-Essien-Ferreira.

No team could cope with the amount of defensive injuries we've had and defend well.

But for the poor attacking performance - no excuses.

[AnotherSpursFan]

Routledge better be playing next game. Jol should realise by now it's about picking 11 players that works best for the system rather than picking 11 best players..if you know what I mean...

[StokeSpur]

You can go on and on about who's out injured but the fact remains is that having King and Daws back will not solve the midfield and their suply to the front men, having King and Daws back will not make Jol pick players in their best possition, you will then say we miss Lennon, well we have a replacement in Routledge dont we? so why isnt he picked? does that mean even if Lennon was fit Jol would play Teemu on the right? if not then why not pick Routledge and get our attacking width back? Zoko last night was moved to left back, why? Stalti hadnt had a bad game had he, can anyone make any sence of that? Is his answer to keeping 4 strikers happy to play 3 of them? Keano is NOT a midfielder!

I really think the big man is losing the plot, he needs to take a rest and step back a bit, even then i do not feel he has what it takes to lead us past 5th, his squad, team, bench and then tactics and substitutions have been mind boggling in the two games.

Jol is a great man in a lot of respects but he keeps making the same mistakes over and over, will he ever be great enought to admit it and learn from it.

Remember a certain Sven doing this 'players out of possition' and 'negative tactics' for England, any of you call for him to stay in the job?

I dont want Jol to go untill someone with a good pedigree is available to replace him, i dont see anyone around that would be any better atm but if were going to spend upwards of 30/40mil a season then its gota get better spent by someone who can take us to the next level.

[danielcook]

Zok and Jenas not working, as most of us have said.

Jenas isn't ideal as a right midfielder, but with injuries...

I'd like to see a midfield of

Jenas Zok Hudd Malbranque

lots of you wanna see the youngsters (not realistic, maybe cameos at best)

Keane was pretty effective as a left winger at Leeds, I recall, but maybe not these days?

[klinsmania72]

4-4-2

Robinson - Chimbodha - Roccha (Dawson) - Kaoubul - Malbranque - Routhledge (Keane) - Huddelstone (Jenas) - Zokora - Tarabt - Defoe- Bent

Bench: Cerny, Berbatov, Keane, Jenas, Stalteri, Gardner, (Boateng)

or

4- 3 -3

Robinson - Chimboda - Roccha (Dawson) - Kaoubul - Malbraque - Jenas - Huddelstone - Zokora - Keane - Defoe - Bent

Bench: Cerny, Berbatov, Routhledge, Gardner, Stalteri, Boateng

[sunnydelight786]

Valencia have put in a bid for Rafeal Van Der Vaart at Hamburg. Now there is a playmake if i ever saw one. They have bid £9.5m for him. If we can spend £16.5m on a luxury player we did'nt need then surely we got money to buy a creative midfielder! While i'm at it why not make a serious move for MGP at Blackburn, sort our LM problem aswell as set piece delivery problem in one swoop!

[klinsmania72]

4-4-2

Robinson - Chimbodha - Roccha (Dawson) - Kaoubul - Malbranque - Routhledge (Keane) - Huddelstone (Jenas) - Zokora - Tarabt - Defoe- Bent

Bench: Cerny, Berbatov, Keane, Jenas, Stalteri, Gardner, (Boateng)

or

4- 3 -3

Robinson - Chimboda - Roccha (Dawson) - Kaoubul - Malbraque - Jenas - Huddelstone - Zokora - Keane - Defoe - Bent

Bench: Cerny, Berbatov, Routhledge, Gardner, Stalteri, Boateng

[gloryglory]

I must say one thing that frustrates me is seeing Malbranque, who can play on the right, stranded on the left, beating his man and cutting back inside, while nobody is delivering balls from the right either.

Two big strikers and no crosses, other than from Chimbonda. Whenever crosses actually came in, we were dangerous (Berbs against post, Defoe's volley, the goal).

If Jo doesn't have faith in Routledge, Steed should start on the right. I would have thought Keane would have preferred the left too, so it would have been win-win.

[klinsmania72]

Im friends with MGP- He wil only join Liverpool or Man utd for Blackburn. We have tried with 8 millon pounds in January - says Spurs is no option for him. So boo him next time you see him.

Were not friends anymore! LOL
E.

[JKSpurs]

I love Jol and cringe at all the people calling in TalkSport or posting on here suggesting we should change our manager who has got us two top 5 finishes in succesful years... I get more ribbing from my mates in regards to our fans than I do about the style of our play etc... That speaks volumes !

I do think though that Jol is a bit weak when it comes to not wanting to upset certain players and wanting to keep everyone happy. As someone pointed out bringing on all 4 strikers in both games we have played so far ?

To me it seems the reason we are not scoring is because there is no service from midfield not because the strikers are missing sitters. So surely the most logiacal thing to do is give the strikers who are on the pitch better service anyone of those four would put away at least one if given a couple of good chances.

Everything about this team is a work in progress. The players we have bought and the managment team we have in place, none of them have come to us after being a huge success at a top four club, so why would you expect them to all of a sudden be of top four standard. When will people understnad that we are not able to attract these standard of personell yet, I mean if Jose, Capello or Fergie express a desire to manage spurs then I will consider maybe replacing Jol, or if Lampard, Gerrard or Ronaldo want to come then maybe we should sell Jenas, until then I'm happy to work with what we have got.

Jol will get better with time and so will a lot of the players... Keep the faith

[vigospur]

Please, please, please. Anyone who thinks Jenas was responsible for last night cannot have watched the game. I thought he was ok / average. No great rating I agree but some of the "untouchables" - particularly Keane and Berbatov - have been far worse in the first two games. No way does Berbatov deserve to start on Saturday but I think he will. Keane as well although he has aways been a streak player - great when on form but on the edge of the game when not.
Doesn't mean the two won't have great patches this season but time to start picking the team on merit me thinks.
And if Huddlestone isn't the creativity answer now when will he be?
And I agree - pathetic to be shouting Jol out now. But equally silly not to to accept that questions about him are building up.

[JKSpurs]

sorry for the spelling, grammar and typo's. I'm at work and trying to keep up to date with Facebook, post on here and work is proving a bit much :)

[spurs mental]

I think Jol is a good manager but he hasnt picked a team that could win in the first 2 games.I dont see why he did not start Routledge or Taraabt in the two games.We had no flare or creativity to show in the games at all.

[Dannyparklane]

Good article and nice to see some perspective.

I'm not saying I'm not worried by our start to the season cos I am, but I think Jol has earned himself a bit of time to sort this out.

Whilst the defence does look extremely dodgy you can at least see why with defenders droppingh like flies! The most worrying thing for me is the lack of creativity from midfield. Maybe i'm looking through rose tinted glasses but I can't remember it being that bad last season with the same personnel (minus lennon of course who was not a prolific "asssiter". We really do seem to have a problem creating anything against organised defences. You can have the 4 best strikers in the world but if you dont get the ball to them you will struggle.

With those available at the moment I can't see any easy answers. Width is the key issue for me and in the long term we need (any) genuine left winger on the left and lennon on the right with either Jenas/Zokora plus in the middle. Chimbonda and Bale bombing on at full back will also help. In the short term its not as easy to find a fail-safe solution. Boateng, Hudd, Taarabt and Routledge shoudl all be used or at least considered, but I can't see that any of these are guarenteed routes to success. However we are in a sitaution where they shoudl be given a chance to prove their worth.

To me you have to drop Jenas. I'm not a Jenas basher but its a bit like Beckham in the World Cup 06 campaign. His presence dictates the way we play and even if he doesnt have the worst game in the world in that position and teh way we are playing everything goes through him and he's not good enough to dictate the team. That isnt his fault bit its true. I'd go with Zokora and the Hudd against Derby.

Also please stop trying to play Keano in midfield. It doesn't work and it never has! David M dot it spot on before kick off last night and exactly what he said would happen happened. I think its just Jol trying to keep all of the fanstastic 4 happy but he may have to upset someone if we're gonna find the balance. If he wants 3 up front, play 3 up front but don't play strikers in midfield when there are other options. By the way I bet Jol wishes we could have 7 subs like on teh continent cos he is gonna struggle to keep all 4 in a 16 man squad this year as it severly dents our options to change midfeild during a game

Its very early days and we've gotta stay with the team. But its been an awful start no doubt and I get the worrying feeling that something is wrong eenough that we wont just be able to click our fingers and snap out of it.Although the strikers are not exempt from criticism, and as much as I love Berbs he just hasnt seem interested so far, their body language hasn't been good and you wonder ho happy we can keep our quartet when we can't create anything.

Sorry I went on a bit but very confused at the moment and trying to get things straight in my head. Really didnt see this start coming!

[klinsmania72]

Sami Hyypiä is for sale for 1,5 million quid... He will be a good back up!

E.

[blankom]

Are you taking the piss? His lack of any form of tactical knowledge has cost us six points, not the lack of a defence, simply his tactics-for the last half an hour our formation was

........................Robinson.................. .......

..........Rocha.........Gardner................Zok ora

...........................Jenas.................. ..........

..Chimbonda........Malbranque.............Keane

..Routledge........Berbatov....................Def oe

That is an absolute joke of a formation and in my opinion is an insult to the intelligence of the fans who know that you simply CANNOT win a game without a shape, especially when the opposition are playing 4-4-2.

I havent been this depressed for a long while and it is purely down to Jol-its not like its his second game in charge of us, its the second game of his FOURTH season with us, none of which have seen us do anything more than achieve the position that our squad says we should.

The players are there for us to suceed, we just need someone that can put them into a proper formation.

I agree 100%. This terrible start IS Jol's fault. And it's not the first time we've been beaten because of his lack of tactical knowledge. Chelsea (h), Arsenal Reserves (h). 2 x Everton (h).

Jol is simply not the man to take us to the next level IMO.

[sunnydelight786]

blankom, could,nt agree with you more. After spending £70m in the last 2 summers we are no better than the team of 2005-06. Failing to strengthen the positions that needed strengthening is a sackable offence in it self. Why spend £16.5m on a player and position that did'nt need sorting?

[worcestersauce]

All of a sudden the answer to all our troubles is Wayne Routledge because as we all know other teams just can't cope with an average Right Winger.

Well bugger me I never knew it was that easy! although actually I've heard that Everton are good enough to cope with that tactic.

The fact is that we created chances yesterday against a well organised defence that is always difficult to beat and with a litle luck Berba's shot would have gone in instead of hitting the post and Defoes shot just hit the goaly.
To say we didn't create any chances is just not true.

I'm as crushed by this as anyone else but I'm not going to blame anyone and everyone. People are saying we didn't try but we kept going until the end, to be honest it was the fans that didn't try last night, it was the fans that gave up at half time, every fan in the ground last night needs to look at his performance because if they (we) carry on like that then we deserve nothing.

[tttcowan]

All those people who think Jol should be sacked are idiots... Can you not remember what was going on before jol got here?!?!??!?!?!?!?!??!?!

I think he's MORE than earnt the right to have a 2 bad games and not have to deal with people calling for his head. I mean, 2 games, yes they were poor but for gods sake are you that fickle? I don't understand why rocha was picked in front of gardner, why perhaps ifil wasnt given a run out over stalteri, why taino started the first game or why taarabt didnt make the bench BUT i've got faith in martin jol and I'm sure he knew what he was doing. We can still get fourth.

Good post by the way!

[danielneeds]

blankom, could,nt agree with you more. After spending £70m in the last 2 summers we are no better than the team of 2005-06. Failing to strengthen the positions that needed strengthening is a sackable offence in it self. Why spend £16.5m on a player and position that did'nt need sorting?

While I agree with you that the mideifield should have been strengthened, the chelsea and Arsenal matches when Berbs went off last season will tell you why why shelled out on Bent; we couldn't make the ball stick up top without Berbatov...

[justfookinhitit]

Can someone please tell me in a concise fashion when we are expecting these players to return from injury :-

Dawson
King
Lee
Lennon
Bale

Plus anyone else on the physio's bench please ...........

[dickyboy21]

to be honest it was the fans that didn't try last night, it was the fans that gave up at half time, every fan in the ground last night needs to look at his performance because if they (we) carry on like that then we deserve nothing.

Hear Hear

[Lillywhite_Jon]

Everton are a good side, well drilled and benefitting from few injuries and a stable squad. Most importantly, they have the benefit of having had a single good manager at the helm for (at least) 4 seasons (maybe longer). I am sure some Evertonians were calling for Moyes head in the season they were knocked out of the champions league qualifying round and when fighting relegation but they will be very tough to beat this year especially in the first third of the season where the effect of a thin squad might not tell so much.

Whilst some of Jol's tactics seem strange, he is good enough and will learn. I believe he is more of a Ferguson than a Houllier. In short lets encourage some stability in our Club by sticking with Jol and we will benefit from that deceision just as Everton have with Moyes.

[NeverRed]

Im sorry, but who's to say that i, or anyone else on this site for that matter, doesnt?

Martin Jol is a football manager for the sole reason that he was a football player, who then showed an interest in coaching. I guarantee that had he at first not been a player then he wouldnt be a manager, but unfortunately in the common game, football is a business that you can only enter from being inside it already.

Isnt it funny that the one big time manager that wasnt a footballer is the best manager in the world? Coincidence? 100% not.

This argument that people know less about football than Jol has to stop because its just a cheap way out of not having a real point.

Wow someones been playing waaaaaaaaaay too much football manager! :rofl:

[gloryglory]

All of a sudden the answer to all our troubles is Wayne Routledge because as we all know other teams just can't cope with an average Right Winger.

Well bugger me I never knew it was that easy! although actually I've heard that Everton are good enough to cope with that tactic.



The answer to our troubles isn't Wayne Routledge, fine. But Routledge would have been better than no Routledge. And if we don't have any other wingers in the squad, that's the management's fault.

I'm not for a second suggesting Jol should be under pressure this early in the season, but to spend £16.5 million on a striker and sign no wingers is hardly looking a wise move.

[se26spurs]

Who do you blame then ? Injuries - buts that why we have such a large and expensive squad. Cant have it both ways. Lets be realistic - one side with average to poor players was comitted, motivated, fit and knew what they were doing. The other side full of expensive 'stars' was not motivated, not committed, not fit and didnt appear to have a game-plan. Who do you blame ?

[NeverRed]

I love martin jol and martin jol loves me!

At the same time i wish he would do this:

--------------------------------------------------------

A back 4 of whatever we can right now (let's face it, the only first choice there is chimbo at the mo)

Routledge/taraabt.....Zokora.....Hudd.....Marlbranque

Berba.....Bent/Keane/Defoe

Subs:.....Cerny, Rocha (a defender of some sort if rocha has to play - dervitte/ifil), Jenas, Taraabt/routledge, Keane/Defoe/Bent

--------------------------------------------------------

Points:

* We only need one striker on the bench and the one out needs to accept this for the team, they won't always be out and the person left out the squad can be changed each week... but game by game someone has to do it because we need other options on the bench.

* Berba gets a run but needs to accept that if he's not producing he will soon be out too and having to earn his place back. I'm pretty sure he's a model pro, not a diva and if he thinks he's bigger then spurs fuck him anyway!

* Jenas IS a good player, he's played ok in both matches, but not taking the game by the scruff of the neck and forcing his influence so a little rest on the bench and a think about what he's done will help!

* I'd love to see tHudd given a go because he can see passes others can't then hit that pass so well, providing our strikers well with their runs and movement into space, something we are seriously lacking right now. tHudd also like a whack at goal now and then and more often then not these are very good shots. We need this from the middle of the park too.

* No question, we NEED proper wingers playing. Marlbranque on his natural right side please so he can excel rather then be limited at what he does. Let him get crosses in from the right and we will have such a more effective player... Then have either Routledge or Taraabt on the either side, with one to come on if the other doesn't perform... that way they both get game time which they desperately need and we get a hungry, offensive, positive, tricky winger we soooooo need to put the other team on the backfoot and pressure in the box.


If you love me like i love you mart, pllllllleeeeeeeeeaaaaaase do this for me!



Major points:

*** We are seriously fucked right now with injuries and waiting for players to build up prem fitness levels... Don't overlook that we do have a massive squad with more backup then most teams can expect to have... we are suffering now despite this... Look at our proper lineup and drool and smell good things

Bale.....King.....Dawson/Kaboul.....Chimbo

KPB/Taarabt.....Zokora.....Hudd/Jenas.....Lennon

Berbs/Keane.....Bent/Defoe


Bench: Cerny/Alnwick... Dawson/Kaboul... Hudd/Jenas... Taarabt/KPB/Routledge/Rose... Berbs/Keane/Bent/Defoe


*** To whom it may concern, stop being so immature, impatient, fickle, ungrateful, ignorant, pathetic, the list goes on... and stop embarrasing us as fans on phone ins and these sites!!! Lets show people tottenham is the place to be and lead by example, otherwise if god forbid martin jol ever does end up leaving who in the world of football would ever want the job! While i'm at it, the booing after the game is slightly understandable but imagine you've bust your nut all game as some players actually did against everton, only to get your efforts unappreciated and a ungrateful booing off the pich. Make spurs a place where stars like Jol & Berba love to be rather then dread.

*** Start loving spurs and getting behind them rather then hating cause we have it better then we've had in many many many many years, and with a little faith, patience and above all else support... it'll only get better still

*** Just like we need martin jol & spurs, martin jol & spurs need us


Edit:

* To the person commenting 2 spaces below me; you're a bafoon of the highest order. Sorry if that seems harsh but 'fans' like you and their unsubstantied idiotic negativity drive me mad :bang: Thing is i don't care if i hurt your lil feelings cause i'm not on here to make friends, i'm here for 2 things only - to SUPPORT and fight for my club and to provide reason to idiots like you that give us a bad name & drive good things away

* COYS!!!

[tingy98]

The answer to our troubles isn't Wayne Routledge, fine. But Routledge would have been better than no Routledge. And if we don't have any other wingers in the squad, that's the management's fault.

I'm not for a second suggesting Jol should be under pressure this early in the season, but to spend £16.5 million on a striker and sign no wingers is hardly looking a wise move.

i think that Routledge put in some threatening balls and set pieces.... lacking in confidence and can't beat his man but put in some decent balls..... shame Bent wasn't on the pitch to be on the end of them!!

[shelfside]

Are you taking the piss? His lack of any form of tactical knowledge has cost us six points, not the lack of a defence, simply his tactics-for the last half an hour our formation was

........................Robinson.................. .......

..........Rocha.........Gardner................Zok ora

...........................Jenas.................. ..........

..Chimbonda........Malbranque.............Keane

..Routledge........Berbatov....................Def oe

That is an absolute joke of a formation and in my opinion is an insult to the intelligence of the fans who know that you simply CANNOT win a game without a shape, especially when the opposition are playing 4-4-2.

I havent been this depressed for a long while and it is purely down to Jol-its not like its his second game in charge of us, its the second game of his FOURTH season with us, none of which have seen us do anything more than achieve the position that our squad says we should.

The players are there for us to suceed, we just need someone that can put them into a proper formation.


Absolutely spot on. The least we should expect is fifth with the money Jol has been given, and a likeable buffoon is a buffoon none the less.

[hermod]

BUY.....
EMERSON and GUTI
not today, yesterday:bang:

[birdm]

Questions goiong around in my head.

How many times will Robbo watch a long range shot go past him this season?
Should we give Cerny a go?
When will a 1st div team realise Gardner, Stalteri & routeledge are perfect standard for them & their league?
Are Marlbranque, jenas, Zakora & tainio good enough for spurs bench?
When are we going to buy Davies?
Why not G Barry?, ever present & reliable. he must be one of the premier league most consistant players and guess what...he plays on the left and supports spurs!

[worcestersauce]

The answer to our troubles isn't Wayne Routledge, fine. But Routledge would have been better than no Routledge. And if we don't have any other wingers in the squad, that's the management's fault.


I'm sorry I don't agree, I actually thought Routledge would have been a good option on saturday but not last night against Everton, I know he got a couple of cracking crosses in near the end but personally I think Huddlestones ability to pick players out with inch perfect passes would have been more useful, so that's two valid tactical opinions, Yours and mine add that to all the others on here and just about all we agree on is that we might not have agreed with MJ'S opinion.

Pehaps we could have had wingers, perhaps we could have Lennon and Bale fit or maybe we could have out bid Man Utd for the dani or paid Petrov over £70k per week, or mortgaged the ground to satisfy Robbens demands or thrown our only worthwhile right back at chelsea for SWP on whatever wages he fancied.
After that who are we left with? MGPederson? he's made it perfectly clear that he's not interested or maybe we could try to prise the mighty Etherington away from west ham! Nah we couldn't afford his wages.

Did anyone notice that Everton didn't have out an out wingers last night? They played across the field all down the touchline always playing it wide to stretch us but they were not wingers.

Please, we are in a hole but it's not that deep. The problem with being so close to success is that the pain that comes when we fail is much more acute we need to get used to it.

[ultimateloner]

I think it is about time that we drilll more tatical variety/awareness into our players.

Our defensive problem is big - but it shouldn't hinder success, and it's not something we could do anything about anyway.

We leave much to be desired in attack. We are using too many long balls especially when we get around the opposition's box. The crosses don't come deep enough and we lost patience in buidling our attack - passing the ball around to create space. We gave up what we are best at.

I'm sure Jol knows this well. I have no worries about his tatical ability. I'm more worried about the mentality of our players - they have lost self-confidence to be creative.

[sharky127]

Yesterdays performance was disheartening, but we have to look at it from all sides. Almost all of todays papers gloss over the fact that practically our entire first choice back line are out injured. This has forced Jol's hand to play people out of position. Now i'm sure Jol had his reasons for playing Stalteri at left back, but in my humble opinion it was a huge mistake. Given the calibre of Arteta on the right coupled with playing Malbranque on the wing, i always thought there would be difficulties. Steed worked hard to get back at times, but he has a tendancy to drift infield which left Stalteri horribly exposed (incidently the same occured on the right with Keane and Chimbonda), especially when he went forwards to attack (some credit is due to Stalteri for actually trying to get some crosses in on his left foot - they may have been ordinary at best but it was nice to see!)

Personally i would have liked to see Gardner start on the left, he has performed well there for us in the past and actually has a left foot. Another factor which hurt us yesterday was luck. I know some people will say you make you're own luck, but there were a fair few incidents where the ball richocheted back to Everton players at important times in both attack and defence. With Berbatovs header going in rather than hitting the post, or Stubbs free kick not taking the deflection (after Carsley breaking the wall!) then things may have been different.

These things happen in football and we just have to deal with it and get behind Mart and the Team. Frankly i was disappointed with the booing at half time, i know you pay through the teeth to watch Spurs but do you really think that booing 2 games into the season is going to help!?

On the subject of midfield, we do lack width, shape and creativity. I have been a staunch supporter of giving Jenas and Zokora time to settle, but i am starting to agree with others that they simply don't work - like Gerrard and Lampard for England. They work hard, cover alot of ground, and i think come in for some unfair criticism, but at the end of the day they aren't supply the ammo to the boys up front and we simply can't rely on someone making something out of nothing every game! On Saturday i would like to see Huddlestone given a chance in the middle, with Taarabt (and boateng if fit) at least on the bench!

Finally, i'm glad to see that there has been a reasoned discussion today rather than the pathetic, illogical and sometimes downright stupid opinions that were aired last night!

[strader]

Season season season has truly started, i couldn't wait for it to start and now i know spurs are truly in for a big fight.

I wont even start slatting the Manager or the players as i have a list of players i think should be or not playing.

Even a formation i think is the best, what i know is we will turn it around.

YIDS,
Take heart and remember united will probably win the title and at present we are one point off united however they have a game in hand. :grin:

[Chimbo!]

We need to get a sense of perspective, its the beginning of the season and we have an injury crisis in defence. The biggest problem is that because of this both our attack and defence are suffering. Stalteri, Gardner and Rocha are plain and simply not good enough but when your 3 1st choice centrehalves are injured and the same with your left-backs, what do you expect. Martin Jol is unlucky that such an awful injury crisis has occured, any team would struggle as much as us with that problem. Also as our defence is dodgy our attack is compromised because there are defensive errors meaning we cant commit bodies forward, we lose width as our fullbacks cant venture as far forward. Jenas and Zokora were constantly sitting in front of our back 4 and so we didnt have enough bodies forward. This then made Keane come deeper and deeper to get the ball causing long balls to be struck at berbatov and bent in the hope they might win it. It is not the tactical ineptiude or poor management of Jol as if it was he would have been sacked long ago (he deserves time as he has transformed us). Dont underestimtae the impact of the defensive injury crisis as it is damaging both ends of the pitch. We just need to sit and wait and hope our injured players come back quickly. In Jol we trust.

[Sanj]

So do you have the relevant coaching credentials.
So have you played the game to a decent level?
have you been watching these players week in week out?
Jol has, he wouldn't be rated so highly by Fergie, mourinho et al if he had no idea.

The fact is Jol is there because he is a very good manager who has taken us out of 20+ (yes TWENTY) years of mid table mediocrity into consecutive 5th places and european footy.

The real point is Jol knows what he wants and needs to make us top 4 - and he's building towards it.
Being 3-1 down with 20 mins left requires radical changes to try and get back in the game - which is what he tried.
To say Jol has no tactical nous, or is not good enough to progress us is a knee-jerk reaction/ or an sign of footballing ignorance.
The fact is we have a very makeshift defence which has an impact all through the team.

[Paceyjg]

Well I think old Big Tone had a great game at the back, why are we not talking about that!?

You dont blame him for their first goal then? I know i do.

[Danny1]

All of us have got to look forward now, we cant change anything that has happened over the last two games so there is no point talking about the negatives.

It is glaringly obvious that the system has to be changed back to a 4-4-2 with a couple of creative players put back in to the side. Now whether that is Taarabt, Boateng or even Routledge, we just need some trickery pace and power and unfortunately Jenas, Malbranque and Keane (In midfield) dont offer that.

I would say that for Derby our defence will be what it will be:

Chimbo Dawson Kaboul/Rocha Gardner/Rocha

Then I personally think our midfield should be:

Boateng Hudd Zokora Taarabt

From what we have heard, Boateng can play all over the midfield and is a strong quick athletic player with bags of ability. Taarabt is very similar, he has the flair and confidence to turn games around, still raw but hey so was Lennon/Ronaldo/Fabregas when they were first put in. The Hudd and Zokora will then be the two players to hold the midfield together, Zokora doing the running and knocking it to Hudd for the distribution.

But hey thats just my thoughts on it, anyone else agree?

[RandAlThor]

Funnily enough i'm alot less dissapointed about the Everton game than the Sunderland game. The result was horrible but I thought for the majority of the first half we dominated the game. We let in stupid goals and the free-kick just before half-time was a killer. They seemed a bit deflated after the break. But if we had played against Sunderland with the same pace and enthusiasm we did in the first half against Everton I believe we would have won that game and we would have 3 points and not such a big problem. The scoreline looked horrible and it was a home game, but in terms of how we played I was happier with the Everton performance. Not happy, but happier.

[riversmonkey]

Jol talks a lot about top mentality, a team with a top mentality on the back of an unbeaten pre season should have competed better against both Sunderland and Everton. Too many of our players seem fragile.

To put a positive spin on a dire week
Sunderland scored in the last minute, until then we were on course for a credible point away from home.

Everton scored from a set piece resulting from an unnecessary over zealous challenge, another goal came from an unlucky deflection and the third came when Rocha made a good defensive header only to take our the goalkeeper and leave an empty net. Ignore the stats, the best Everton chances all came when we were chasing the game.

Stalteri is our fourth choice left back, Gardner and Rocha our fourth and fifth choice centrebacks. This however does not excuse two woeful midfield displays and strikers who have nothing to work with.

To end on a bleak note. fourth place has gone. We were only in with a chance if we hit the ground running. Our only hope is to go on a crazy winning streak, its not out of the question but highly unlikely.

[worcestersauce]

Stalteri is our fourth choice left back,


Actually I think he's our fifth choice left back as we've played Gardiner there before only this time he was needed in the centre.

On another positive note: When Kaboul went off on his storming run did anyone else have a sense of deja vu?
Did not the great Ginger Pele used to do the same?

[danielneeds]

So do you have the relevant coaching credentials.
So have you played the game to a decent level?
have you been watching these players week in week out?
Jol has, he wouldn't be rated so highly by Fergie, mourinho et al if he had no idea.

The fact is Jol is there because he is a very good manager who has taken us out of 20+ (yes TWENTY) years of mid table mediocrity into consecutive 5th places and european footy.

The real point is Jol knows what he wants and needs to make us top 4 - and he's building towards it.
Being 3-1 down with 20 mins left requires radical changes to try and get back in the game - which is what he tried.
To say Jol has no tactical nous, or is not good enough to progress us is a knee-jerk reaction/ or an sign of footballing ignorance.
The fact is we have a very makeshift defence which has an impact all through the team.

While I agree that Jol is no mug, if our defence is so makeshift why change formation and leave our fullbacks totally exposed last night? Surely the best thing to do is get two banks of four and get men behind the ball and protect them until the injuries clear up and we can get going again???

[gibbs131]

Not Jol out. Hughton and Seggers out. He needs better first team coaches. He needs some help.

[ShelfSide18]

At last a little bit of sense. As for the winner of 'humourous post of the year' Adam - 'why are'nt you in the dugout. As someone said i'd whip your cv into the club sharpish. I'm sure your record on championship manager is second to none and the flowing football you produce on pro evolution soccer is awesome. Jol out Adam in! Muppet.

[Adam]

So do you have the relevant coaching credentials.
So have you played the game to a decent level?
have you been watching these players week in week out?
Jol has, he wouldn't be rated so highly by Fergie, mourinho et al if he had no idea.

The fact is Jol is there because he is a very good manager who has taken us out of 20+ (yes TWENTY) years of mid table mediocrity into consecutive 5th places and european footy.

The real point is Jol knows what he wants and needs to make us top 4 - and he's building towards it.
Being 3-1 down with 20 mins left requires radical changes to try and get back in the game - which is what he tried.
To say Jol has no tactical nous, or is not good enough to progress us is a knee-jerk reaction/ or an sign of footballing ignorance.
The fact is we have a very makeshift defence which has an impact all through the team.

Yes i have coaching badges, Yes ive played to a decent level all my life and yes i watch them week in week out because i go to pretty much every game-any more questions you mug?

Ask Fergie now if he'd like him as an assistant, i wonder what he'd say-it'll be a two letter answer, the first being an 'N' i can assure you.

[Adam]

At last a little bit of sense. As for the winner of 'humourous post of the year' Adam - 'why are'nt you in the dugout. As someone said i'd whip your cv into the club sharpish. I'm sure your record on championship manager is second to none and the flowing football you produce on pro evolution soccer is awesome. Jol out Adam in! Muppet.

hahahaha brilliant, read the post again you absolute mug-all i stated was that the argument that Jol knows more than anyone is redundant-he got a lucky break and is now a football manager, not based on coming through a coaching school, not based on getting his badges, but purely based on him initially being good at football.

The two are completely mutually exclusive and the sooner people realise that playing the game doesnt make you a good manager, or even give you any insight into what understanding tactics are the better-if they did then we would have 6 points on the board!!

[NeverRed]

Are you taking the piss? His lack of any form of tactical knowledge has cost us six points, not the lack of a defence, simply his tactics-for the last half an hour our formation was

........................Robinson.................. .......

..........Rocha.........Gardner................Zok ora

...........................Jenas.................. ..........

..Chimbonda........Malbranque.............Keane

..Routledge........Berbatov....................Def oe

That is an absolute joke of a formation and in my opinion is an insult to the intelligence of the fans who know that you simply CANNOT win a game without a shape, especially when the opposition are playing 4-4-2.

I havent been this depressed for a long while and it is purely down to Jol-its not like its his second game in charge of us, its the second game of his FOURTH season with us, none of which have seen us do anything more than achieve the position that our squad says we should.

The players are there for us to suceed, we just need someone that can put them into a proper formation.

Yes i have coaching badges, Yes ive played to a decent level all my life and yes i watch them week in week out because i go to pretty much every game-any more questions you mug?

Ask Fergie now if he'd like him as an assistant, i wonder what he'd say-it'll be a two letter answer, the first being an 'N' i can assure you.

hahahaha brilliant, read the post again you absolute mug-all i stated was that the argument that Jol knows more than anyone is redundant-he got a lucky break and is now a football manager, not based on coming through a coaching school, not based on getting his badges, but purely based on him initially being good at football.

The two are completely mutually exclusive and the sooner people realise that playing the game doesnt make you a good manager, or even give you any insight into what understanding tactics are the better-if they did then we would have 6 points on the board!!

:rofl: Thanks for the best laugh of the day so far. You're really something!

Playing in the game at the top levels gives you an insight into what it's like and theres no better experience you can get. Not only do you experince the pro game as players but you get to learn from top managers first hand too. To claim that it doesn't benefit is pretty ignorant and stupid.

We don't want jol here because he played for West Brom and whoever else is, we want him here because he is a TOP manager, highly regarded in the REAL world of football and his past credentials speak for themself, especially those of the past couple of seasons. That fact we even have to defend him to idiots like you is sooooo annoying it's untrue.

What is it Adam 2 coaching badges n one champ manager world cup??? I'd ask for a refund for those courses if i was u cause "u can stick your badges up ur arse, u can stick your badges up ur arse, you can stick your badges, stick your badges, stick your badges up your arse!"

...MUG!!!

[danielneeds]

hahahaha brilliant, read the post again you absolute mug-all i stated was that the argument that Jol knows more than anyone is redundant-he got a lucky break and is now a football manager, not based on coming through a coaching school, not based on getting his badges, but purely based on him initially being good at football.

The two are completely mutually exclusive and the sooner people realise that playing the game doesnt make you a good manager, or even give you any insight into what understanding tactics are the better-if they did then we would have 6 points on the board!!

You are so ignorant its untrue, Jol has got all his coaching badges, if you didn't have a UEFA Pro badge he couldn't manage us. And to say he is not a good manager, how many others have got us in the top half of the league in the last 20 years, not to mention top 5??

[ShelfSide18]

Im sorry, but who's to say that i, or anyone else on this site for that matter, doesnt?

Martin Jol is a football manager for the sole reason that he was a football player, who then showed an interest in coaching. I guarantee that had he at first not been a player then he wouldnt be a manager, but unfortunately in the common game, football is a business that you can only enter from being inside it already.

Isnt it funny that the one big time manager that wasnt a footballer is the best manager in the world? Coincidence? 100% not.

This argument that people know less about football than Jol has to stop because its just a cheap way out of not having a real point.

Haha what a prize moron. I'm an FA qualified coach and i don't for one minute think i can question Jol by rolling out my tactical masterplan like the one i play on footie manager. Actually Mourinho was a footballer, not to a great standard, but he's still been involved within footballing circles all his life. Jol sees the players day in day out, you don't. Jol has taken us from midtable to 5th twice, you didn't and couldn't. To say you know more than Jol is well quite frankly the most ridiculous and laughable thing i have ever heard.

[Adam]

Haha what a prize moron. I'm an FA qualified coach and i don't for one minute think i can question Jol by rolling out my tactical masterplan like the one i play on footie manager. Actually Mourinho was a footballer, not to a great standard, but he's still been involved within footballing circles all his life. Jol sees the players day in day out, you don't. Jol has taken us from midtable to 5th twice, you didn't and couldn't. To say you know more than Jol is well quite frankly the most ridiculous and laughable thing i have ever heard.

Can you find that quote for me please?

[UncleBuck]

We've currently got Daws, King, Rocha, Kaboul and Gardner at centre half, who could honestly have expected our first three choice CB's to be injured at the same time? If you took Carragher, Hyypia and Agger out of Liverpool's back line who on earth would they play at CB? We are down to the bare bones, there isn't however any point in signing another CB because as soon as these three get back to full fitness whoever we bring in will become 4th choice, creating the same problem that we now have up front.

Defensively at the moment we are not good enough as a unit, the injuries we currently have seem to have had a devastating effect on confidence, concentration and morale.

We need a settled CB pairing, last season we conceeded twice the amount of goals that we should have, this was partly because King was constantly in & out of the team through injury therefore meaning the back four wasn't settled and at times lacked leadership. I don't know how true it is but I have heard a couple of times now that King has got a debilitating injury and the chances of him playing beyond the age of 30 are very slim...

If we go back 2 seasons when King & Daws played 90% of our games together as a partnership we were solid, anyone remember Mourinho's quote?!?! At the moment we couldn't park a bike let alone a bus.

The issue of midfield is a complete nightmare. At the moment we have 11 players who could be considered as starters:Zokora, Murphy, Taarabt, Hudd, Lennon, Jenas, Ghaly, Boateng, Tainio, Malbranque and Routledge.
So why on earth are we playing Keane at right mid?
Because he is our current captain and you can't drop your skipper can you???

Having forked out £16.5m on Bent Jol can't justify leaving him on the bench. I don't feel that we needed to sign him, absolutely no disrespect to him as he's a good player but when you consider how many goals we scored that season with the strike force we had did we really need another striker?

Berbatov is class as we all know but over 180 mins of football this season he has looked uninterested by the standards he set last season.

Defoe is our most naturally gifted goalscorer but because of the issues surrounding the three other strikers he is the easiest target to leave on the bench.

I think we have made a rod for our own backs by signing certain players that we really didn't need and it's had an adverse effect on the squad by playing people out of position.

In Lennon's absence Routledge must be given a few games on the right as a "like for like" replacement, if that means dropping Bent for Keane up top then so be it. Hudd needs to come in to add some creativity as at the moment we do not have any in the middle of the park, play him alongside Zokora who needs to start taking much more responsibility, let's not forget we paid £8m for him....

That leaves the left hand side....Bale in front of BAE perhaps? Who knows? I don't get paid to make them decisions but I know if I did I would have bought in a left footer in my first couple of weeks in the job! For £16.5m we could have bought someone with three left pegs and that issue would have been put to bed.

I still think we look off the pace and that the season has come 3-4 games too erarly for us, why didn't we test ourselves against better quality opposition during pre-season?

In summary I think we are currently under prepared, we lack depth in certain areas but are top heavy in others. Our scattergun transfer policy means we have numerous players with "potential" but how can this potential be realised when they are not given the chance to prove themselves in a team that is under performing, lacking creativity, passion, concentration and most importantly goals.

I so want MJ to succeed and take us forward but I'm finding myself starting to doubt his tactical awareness.....:shrug: :shrug: Eek

[ShelfSide18]

Can you find that quote for me please?


Well your first post slating Jols tactics suggested to me and others that you are aware of something that Jol isn't hence knowing more than Jol.

Does him taking us to our 2 most successful seasons in yonks mean nothing to you? Does the amazing football we produced last season mean nothing? What about managers like Mourinho and Ferguson talking Jols credentials up? You need to sit down and realise the grass isn't always greener.

What would your reaction be if we stuffed derby and beat Man Utd at OT?

[ShelfSide18]

[quote=NeverRed;563100]

What is it Adam 2 coaching badges n one champ manager world cup??? I'd ask for a refund for those courses if i was u cause "u can stick your badges up ur arse, u can stick your badges up ur arse, you can stick your badges, stick your badges, stick your badges up your arse!"

quote]

Ok NeverRed it was me who said he's got coaching badges but yeah youre right. I dont claim to know more than others because got one, just used it as an example of why Adam is the biggest mug i think ive come across on SC - and thats up against some very stiff competition. Also my record on football manager is amazing i'll have you know!! But it doesn't give me the credentials to start questioning the best manager we've had for donkeys.

[markie]

we should of signed barton or parker. just someone with experience that can drag a team from midfield and have a go. i bet if we'd signed barton we'd not be in this position

:stupid: LOL.. One of the most ridiculous comments I have ever heard...

The fact of the matter is that there must be a clause in Zokoras contract that he plays every game no matter what... What other reason could there be for Jol to partner him with Jenas even though we have a player that is 1000% better than him in the holding role position. Tom Huddlestone. There is no doubt that the Hudd has his doubters but at the end of the day he had our best shot on target in the SUnderland game even though he was only on for about ten minutes... This is coming from a team that has about £60 million worth of talent up front who couldnt hit a barn door with a tennis ball at the moment. The Hudd is one of the best passers of the ball in our whole squad, he learnt a lot from Carrick and people forget that. He is also built like a brick shi* house and players find it hard to get past him..

Martin Jol what are you doing.. Get rid of Zoko pops and Bring the Hudd in and we will have a more balanced team straight away. Put Routledge in the first team to get some width then put Taraabt in the team for his flair. Put Keane and one of the other three up front and put the other two on the bench. Keane is our captain after all and was our second highest scoring player last season (Martin Jol plays him right wing...... :shrug: )
As for Jenas I dont think he merits starting the next game and we should play Malbranque as attacking midfield in front of the Hudd as he looked quality pre season.

My team would look like this and if Martin Jol grows some balls and plays the team that is best not the players that he loves for once then we may get some good football going...

Cerny

Chimbonda - Dawson - Gardener - Rocha

- - Huddlestone - -
Routledge - - - - - - - - - - - Taraabt
- - - - - - - - Malbranque - - - - - - - -

keane - - - - - Bent

Bench: Berbatov, Defoe, Jenas, Boeteng, Robinson

Forget Zokora ever exsisted.. He is a pointless player that should be kicked out of the first team and put in the reserves...:bang:

[Adam]

Well your first post slating Jols tactics suggested to me and others that you are aware of something that Jol isn't hence knowing more than Jol.

Does him taking us to our 2 most successful seasons in yonks mean nothing to you? Does the amazing football we produced last season mean nothing? What about managers like Mourinho and Ferguson talking Jols credentials up? You need to sit down and realise the grass isn't always greener.

What would your reaction be if we stuffed derby and beat Man Utd at OT?

Then i'd be absolutely delighted, but im gonna be honest and say that i dont think he has the nouse/guts to do it.

As far as fifth is concerned, yeah its great but is there anyone on this forum that doesnt think we have the fifth best squad in the league? Does that still render it as an achievement? Chelsea won the league and people on here still didnt say it was an achievement because they had the best squad. Is there much of a difference? (For the record, i think we will come fifth again because of our squad)

I look at teams like Bolton and Everton last year and to be honest, there is no way they had the 6th and 7th best squad in the league, especially when you look at teams like Newcastle and West Ham, therefore their league positions in my eyes were a greater achievement to ours.

My argument has been tarnished with this rubbish about managerial ability and Joe Bloggs doing a better job than Jol, which i think is actually quite unfair and when you look at the message of my initial argument i think it will make more sense about the message that none of us can know better than Jol at any point, a statement that i think is quite weak as we are looking at the players from a slightly more detatched view than Jol with no real relationship with any player therefore we have no bias towards or against anyone, meaning at times we are able to make a slightly more balanced judgement-is that still so ridiculous a point?

[ShelfSide18]

I don't think so to be honest. Jol plays Jenas because he clearly sees him as a vital part of our team (which was blindingly obvious last season when he got injured).

We WILL turn this around and come good. Wait till the flowing football clicks into place, when our 45 defenders return and Lennons flying on the wings. There's a long way to go, we've lost 2 games but to start getting on Jols back is ridiculous. Let him do his job and us ours - we are SUPPORTers so we should support. I'm off to take Spurs to premiership glory on football manager.

[SouthLondonSpur]

Its taken me this long to get over last nights result and not feel depressed. I couldnt even watch the second half, thinking that I'll catch the news and enjoy the headline, "Jol makes comeback of the year". Never happened.

Anyway, I havent even checked my beloved SC until half an hour ago, waiting to see how many Jol out posts there are. I'm surprised there are not more - it gives me hope.

i have only read this thread so far but I am pleased to say we sound like much more mature fans than a few years ago.

Yes, its a terrible start to the season, dreadful, awful and there has been some cringeworthy football played. However everyone seems to take on board the fact that we have so many injuries its ridiculous. Our back four last night was third or fourth choice, when we lost Kaboul it became the bloody reserves (exagerated I know but makes me feel better).

I know wer'e bottom, I know we played awful, but this is not the end result of MJ in his fourth season. We have some great football to come, and a comeback to be proud of. Keep the faith brothers and sisters as I am trying to as well.

Jol in.
Injuries out.
Faith in.
Boo's out.

[SouthLondonSpur]

I found it particularly hard when he was interviwed before the game and asked what we need to do for top four. His response? Concede less goals......

Hello? Anybody there?

[DIYerStraits]

This season sure beats the one when we had Ledders doing a cameo holdiing midfield and (horrors!) Gary Docherty as a striker! How about sicknote Anderton? We are blessed, I tells ya, Blessed!

[NeverRed]

[quote=NeverRed;563100]

What is it Adam 2 coaching badges n one champ manager world cup??? I'd ask for a refund for those courses if i was u cause "u can stick your badges up ur arse, u can stick your badges up ur arse, you can stick your badges, stick your badges, stick your badges up your arse!"

quote]

Ok NeverRed it was me who said he's got coaching badges but yeah youre right. I dont claim to know more than others because got one, just used it as an example of why Adam is the biggest mug i think ive come across on SC - and thats up against some very stiff competition. Also my record on football manager is amazing i'll have you know!! But it doesn't give me the credentials to start questioning the best manager we've had for donkeys.

:lol: sorry adam! Shelfside thanks for pointing that out, that made me laugh n u sound like the kinda guy who deserves a :beer: p.s. my fm record speaks for itself too!

[ibbz]

Spurs and Jol are laughable. Jols tactics are abysmal - nothing has changed from last year and NO progress has been made - apart from some iffy signings which imho haven't strengthened the parts which were needed most - such has the left side and midfield.

many of our players are simply not good enough, not top 4 standard. And Jols buys, what was he thinking purchasing Bent for 16million, when we already had 4 good strikers? In my opinion Bent is the weakest of the strikers, Defoe is a class above him!

Our midfield is too weak, too one dimensional, and our defence, without King, and with dawson injured, are the others up to King?daws standard? I think not, I know Im being harsh, as not many defenders can match dawson or king, but a lot of money was spent UNWISELY.

It looks as if it will be a 5th or 6th finish this season - and with Jols 4th season and £100 million spent, failure to break into the top 4 should result in Jols departure.

Give Jol until the end of the season - 5th and he's hanging on a knife edge, any lower and he should be OUT.

[ibbz]

£100 million has been spent, the least we can expect is the highest finish in yonks - as some put it.

I warrant even Christian Gross could finish top 5 if you gave him £100 million! So could Jerry Francis!

This is bollocks, it has been Levy and £££'s and NOT essentially Jol which have propelled us to two 5th place finishes.

[ShelfSide18]

Spurs and Jol are laughable. Jols tactics are abysmal - nothing has changed from last year and NO progress has been made - apart from some iffy signings which imho haven't strengthened the parts which were needed most - such has the left side and midfield.

many of our players are simply not good enough, not top 4 standard. And Jols buys, what was he thinking purchasing Bent for 16million, when we already had 4 good strikers? In my opinion Bent is the weakest of the strikers, Defoe is a class above him!

Our midfield is too weak, too one dimensional, and our defence, without King, and with dawson injured, are the others up to King?daws standard? I think not, I know Im being harsh, as not many defenders can match dawson or king, but a lot of money was spent UNWISELY.

It looks as if it will be a 5th or 6th finish this season - and with Jols 4th season and £100 million spent, failure to break into the top 4 should result in Jols departure.

Give Jol until the end of the season - 5th and he's hanging on a knife edge, any lower and he should be OUT.

Looks like Adams got some competiton for our next managers spot. How could you possibly know Jols tactics are 'abysmal? Just because we lost? How about Moyes tactics were spot on?

[theoldguy]

Just my own thoughts. Robinson still lacks confidence in my opinion, he makes some great fingertip saves but doesn't cut out crosses or even challenge attackers strongly in the box. Chimbonda is OK going forward but as a defender he is weak, his tackles are more likely to miss or give up a free kick than winning the ball. Jenas and Zokora are not gelling and not feeding our strikers. So ..... I'd have Robinson on notice that he needs to control the penalty area or Cerny goes in. The other three I'd replace using Stalteri at right back, Rocha on the left then Huddlestone and Boateng in the midfield.

[batigol]

Valencia have put in a bid for Rafeal Van Der Vaart at Hamburg. Now there is a playmake if i ever saw one. They have bid £9.5m for him. If we can spend £16.5m on a luxury player we did'nt need then surely we got money to buy a creative midfielder! While i'm at it why not make a serious move for MGP at Blackburn, sort our LM problem aswell as set piece delivery problem in one swoop!

I agree with you absolutely. After a summer of spending, we still have not fixed our lack of creativity either down the flanks or through the middle problem. It just doesn't make sense for us to have bought a striker when we already have 3 and not get a top midfielder for 10+ million. No Jol out but I do question the buying policies as it has magnified our problems. Jol's post match comments for both matches so far has been the same; we lack of creativity and final ball. The fact is that this has been evident since we sold Carrick. So why the hell does the club not do something about it? Stop playing with trying to fit 4 bloody strikers who have it all in a squad of 11 and try thinking how to feed these strikers....that's what I think. I'm an armchair fan, and I'm sure BMJ has thought about this problem as evident from his comments so why the hell is there no change in the players to allow for more flair/ creativity or why is there no urge to spend some dough on players who can solve these problems?! I waited the whole summer for Spurs to get that one creative player we need, and we didn't. Yeah, I'm sure people tell me that the players we want are not available or don't want to join us; I saw Petrov move to ManC, Sneijder to Real (Ok, no chance there), van der Vaart to Hamburg for peanuts, Rosicky to Arse for half of Bent's price, Arteta to Everton for 1/4 of Bent's price over the past few seasons. So am I to be blamed when I get frustrated after seeing the same old not-so-creative performance from the squad by the same players because nothing was done to change anything? Its just so not true that such players are not available...we just didn't try hard enough to get them. Then you see the same problems surfacing again. Yes, defence is seriously decimated by injuries so I have no qualms about that but how about our supposed vaunted attack? Our only goal scored thus far is from a Defender. Why is there such a lack of penetration in our attack? I'm sorry but I'm still depressed after the defeat. Yes, it has only been 2 matches but the problems I see in our squad has been existing since last season so it doesn't give me a while lot of confidence that we will overcome them anytime soon. Not when Berbs is off-colour and injured, and Lennon is out; 2 of our main creative sparks. Who is going to create now? Good question and I hope Jol has the answers this weekend as I don't have it.

[kc1669]

Very disappointed with the result on Tuesday and really dreaded to read the postings as I'm expecting a lot of negative comments from our fans........................Anyway, I'm glad to find that not all comments are negative but some are really positives and encouraging!!!!!

I'm not trying to defend Jol or the players but judging from the game............we beat Everton on the amount of possesions but lost on the amount of goals. 2 of Everton goals resulted from set-pieces by unnecessary fouls at the most inappropriate timing. The first at the early of the game when we try to put pressure on them. The 2nd just before the halftime whistle. I believe those 2 crucial moments turn the tide of the game.

Anyway, our next game we face more injuries woes but a must win situation. We have to get back to the basic where fancy football should be replace with direct football. 3 points must be in the bag and to regain back our confidence before facing MU who had a bad start too.

Only when we start winning and climbing the league table will we regain back our confidence. The whole team should support each other and play short passing game in order not to give away unnecessary possesions and commit unnecessary fouls.

COYS!!!!!! Let's beat Derby and get our season started!!!!!!

[Sanj]

I don't think he did - Everton had nothing coming down their left flank, but they had arteta on the right. Arteta didn't stick out wide, but often pulled out onto stalteri. However when he did, i though Malbranque got back regularly to help out, but they hit on teh break for the 2nd and stalts stayed off arteta rather than trying to block the cross - a case of bad defending from a player who does know better !!

[smash18]

I havent been this depressed for a long while and it is purely down to Jol-its not like its his second game in charge of us, its the second game of his FOURTH season with us, none of which have seen us do anything more than achieve the position that our squad says we should.

Actually achieving the positition in the league that our squad says it should is a lot more difficult to do than you give Jol credit for. IF it was that easy, then you shouldn'e be worried because our current squad is the 4/5th best in the league, therefore we will finish 4th or 5th !!!

:shrug: