Jol summoned by chairman to explain Spurs' poor start

[Geez]

Source: The Guardian

Tottenham Hotspur's manager, Martin Jol, met his chairman, Daniel Levy, last night following a dismal start to the campaign, with the club keen to stress that they still expect the team to challenge for Champions League qualification this season.

Levy sought an explanation from Jol as to why Spurs have slipped to successive defeats by Sunderland and Everton, with the manager's predicament hardly helped by confirmation that Dimitar Berbatov and Younes Kaboul have joined his list of walking wounded. Levy backed Jol to the tune of £40m in the summer to sign Darren Bent, Gareth Bale, Kevin-Prince Boateng and Younes Kaboul. Any further outlay on West Bromwich Albion's Curtis Davies is likely to have to wait until just before the closure of the transfer window.

Although there is no indication that Jol is in immediate danger of losing his job, the chairman made it clear in the meeting that there are concerns over the miserable start to the new season.

A win against promoted Derby County at White Hart Lane on Saturday is now imperative, particularly given that Spurs must visit Manchester United a week later and are due at Anfield in early September. Those are daunting trips, particularly given the injuries which have effectively robbed Jol of three of his first-choice back-line.

And there is sympathy for the manager, that Ledley King has been ruled out until October with a knee injury, Kaboul pulled a hamstring in the defeat by Everton and Michael Dawson could be missing for a further two weeks after spraining an ankle.

"We've had a couple more blows," said Jol, who watched Kaboul limp off after only 19 minutes of the Everton match. "Younes will be out for the next three or four weeks with the hamstring injury. That's a real kick in the teeth. And Dimitar Berbatov has a groin problem. It's an old problem and he will now visit a specialist in Germany. He will be out for a couple of weeks."

In central defence the manager is currently reliant upon Anthony Gardner and Ricardo Rocha - for both of whom he would listen to offers - with Paul Stalteri operating as an emergency left-back.

Davies was the subject of a bid by Aston Villa last week worth £6m and a further £1m in potential payments, though that falls short of Albion's valuation of a player they bought for £3m from Luton in 2005.

Tottenham have made their interest in the 22-year-old known, too, though they are yet to submit a formal bid. Instead they hope the prohibitive £10m valuation placed on the centre-half by the West Brom chairman, Jeremy Peace, will be lowered before the August 31 transfer cut-off, particularly as the Albion manager, Tony Mowbray, has made it clear the player is "not in the right frame of mind" to play for the Championship club at present.

[chookz]

Tottenham crocked spurs
What's up with all these injuries?

[gaganelov]

:bs: "not in the right frame of mind"

[Vegas]

Load of guff. What's Naybet up to these days? Maybe he can come back on a pay as you play deal. Anyone have any information on players returning this weekend?

[WhiteHeartLowe]

Source: The Guardian

In central defence the manager is currently reliant upon Anthony Gardner and Ricardo Rocha - for both of whom he would listen to offers -

Really? Says who??

[oobaties]

Get the Hudd in at CB for christ sake.

[TajSpur]

Instead of playing...

Chimbo Rocha Gardner Salty

...against Derby Co. I think he should shift them across to play as....

Salty Chimbo Rocha Gardner.

This is a bit more balanced.

[Crabby]

I have to say we all know what a great coach Jol is and how honest and wicked he comes across in interviews but tactically inept. IMO the issue on Tues night was the midfield, Zakora the best of the lot, Jenas drifting in and out and we were overrun so what does he do, swap Bent for Defoe. We needed Hudd on for Bent surely and if you insist on keeping Jenas on put him on the right and let Kakora go forward with Hudd sitting. Also if we are always going to have 2 strikers on the bench and a keeper leaves us with few options..i want to see Taarabt on the bench and when fit Boatang and if Jenas doesnt up his game he has to be dropped.

Yes the defence is poor with all the injuries but the midfield is just as bad if not worse

[BringBack_leGin]

Been linked to Van Der Vaart today. Not sur if there is any substance, but would he improve our midfield? I know he a lampardesque amount of goals, what is his technique and passing like though? And have his injuries shown any sign of clearing? And does anyone know if we are actually after him? Rufio? Ali? DM?

[Kurtzen]

"Errrr, yes. I've spent 108 million pounds and I've got a midfield to die for..."

"So the arrangements then? Flowers, or donations?"

[JohnnyA]

I think with the injuries in defence giving weak options i would be tempted at home against derby to play 3 4 3 to strengthen the areas of the team where players are fit.

When defending Keane can drop back into left mid and push Malbranque to the centre.

Robinson

Chimbo Rocha Gardner

Taarabt Zokora Huddlestone Malbranque

Bent Defoe Keane

Any suggestions?

[pistolP]

All is not well in the dressing room among the players and it is true

[pistolP]

I think with the injuries in defence giving weak options i would be tempted at home against derby to play 3 4 3 to strengthen the areas of the team where players are fit.

When defending Keane can drop back into left mid and push Malbranque to the centre.

Robinson

Chimbo Rocha Gardner

Taarabt Zokora Huddlestone Malbranque

Bent Defoe Keane

Any suggestions?


Capital no, we should play 4 at the back,4 in the middle and 2 upfront

[JonnySpurs]

Been linked to Van Der Vaart today. Not sur if there is any substance, but would he improve our midfield? I know he a lampardesque amount of goals, what is his technique and passing like though? And have his injuries shown any sign of clearing? And does anyone know if we are actually after him? Rufio? Ali? DM?

Where have we been linked to him? The kid is class in my opinion, left footed but operates at best in central midfield so I find it hard to believe that we'd buy him to stick him out on the left.

Either way, as the window draws to a close I'm hoping that a left wing option still drops in for us, whether it be Matt Taylor or Nene or anyone like that, it would just be nice and I think we settle a few fans down.

I'm not worried about our start because any team with key injuries like we've got would struggle and Man Utd have only managed 2 points from 2 games so hardly time to panic. We've been very unlucky, lets get behind Jol and the boys and show some faith!

[cabinfever]

All is not well in the dressing room among the players and it is true

I felt that in the game against Everton - I thought it was very noticable with Keane and Berbs. Little energy and spark.

Any idea what the problem is ? Is Berbs sulking?

[justfookinhitit]

Levy isn't stupid - he knows that having half the team out with injuries is going to make things tough. I can't believe for a nanosecond that he has any concerns about Jol abilities.

Yes it is a shitty start to the season, but we just have to get on with it. No point going through endless post mortems.

[danielneeds]

I felt that in the game against Everton - I thought it was very noticable with Keane and Berbs. Little energy and spark.

Any idea what the problem is ? Is Berbs sulking?

Perhaps he was pissed off because he was getting no service, particuarly from the flanks, and was constantly chasing Robbo's long kicks???

[littlemandefoe]

Robinson

Chimbonda Huddlestone Gardner Pyo

Taarabt Zokora Jenas Malbranque

Berbatov Defoe

Subs: Bent Keane Rocha Cerny Routledge

[cabinfever]

Perhaps he was pissed off because he was getting no service, particuarly from the flanks, and was constantly chasing Robbo's long kicks???

Or unhappy that his friend went to Man City !!

[RogerTCB]

And, looking on the Transfere Rumours thread, we've been linked to Juande Ramos too. I don't think Jol has what it takes for Top 4. I didn't think Hoddle was a good move as he clearly lacks brains; I did think Jol was the answer. Great track record and could have been our Venger. As it is, he was a massive improvement but not, I am begining to think, a long term solution.
The board may be thinking the same and the choice is whether Jol can continue to improve us for a while, or whether we should be looking for a replacement sooner rather than later. Juande Ramos may not be a bad plan but I'd not fire Jol just yet.

[eurodat]

While I have not given up on MJ I have always had an underlying concern about his ability. Lots of questionable decisions since he took over in my opinion, some of them leading to defeats shortly after they were made.

You have to ask yourself this question - Given the squad we have do you think there are managers out there who would be getting the points on the board for us with that squad. I think there are.

[2bearis2do]

And, looking on the Transfere Rumours thread, we've been linked to Juande Ramos too. I don't think Jol has what it takes for Top 4. I didn't think Hoddle was a good move as he clearly lacks brains; I did think Jol was the answer. Great track record and could have been our Venger. As it is, he was a massive improvement but not, I am begining to think, a long term solution.
The board may be thinking the same and the choice is whether Jol can continue to improve us for a while, or whether we should be looking for a replacement sooner rather than later. Juande Ramos may not be a bad plan but I'd not fire Jol just yet.

BMJ has a game record that surpasses any of our managers in the last 25years.
He loses two on the trot having had a streak of one loss in 15 at the end of last season.
We've the worst injury list in the Premier League and a reserve back four.
YUP, he screws up sometimes tactically. It ain't a great start, especially considering the expectations, but look at Man U (we're only 2 points behind them with 36 games to go!) so have a little faith!

[eurodat]

BMJ has a game record that surpasses any of our managers in the last 25years.
He loses two on the trot having had a streak of one loss in 15 at the end of last season.
We've the worst injury list in the Premier League and a reserve back four.
YUP, he screws up sometimes tactically. It ain't a great start, especially considering the expectations, but look at Man U (we're only 2 points behind them with 36 games to go!) so have a little faith!

So you think no manager out there would do any better with the players he has to choose from? Sorry but i have to disagree if thats what u do think.

[super_mabbutt]

were so fickle its crazy, Martin Jol has done a tremendous job at spurs, its time for us to sit back and realise it

[RogerTCB]

BMJ has a game record that surpasses any of our managers in the last 25years.
He loses two on the trot having had a streak of one loss in 15 at the end of last season.
We've the worst injury list in the Premier League and a reserve back four.
YUP, he screws up sometimes tactically. It ain't a great start, especially considering the expectations, but look at Man U (we're only 2 points behind them with 36 games to go!) so have a little faith!
Actually, I was writing a general comment in response to the speculation about Juande Ramos, not the two game losing streak which I put mainly down to our injuries, and I stand by it. Jol represents a massive improvement (as I mentioned) but I am now not certain he is a Top 4 manager. You?

[BIGSMITHY]

I Don't Care What Any Paper Or Pundit Says About Our Start, Their Isn't A Team In The Premiership That Could Cope With 6 First Team Defensive Injuries, Especially 3 Centre Backs & 3 Left Backs. So All I Ask From My Fellow Spurs Fans Is To Bare With It For A Few Games As All Will Be Fine In Time. Coys

[worcestersauce]

Any idea what the problem is ? Is Berbs sulking?


Perhaps he's sulking because 2 games in and most of the crowd were acting like kunz (a german midfield player from the late 90's).

[onthetwo]

"Yes the defence is poor with all the injuries but the midfield is just as bad if not worse[/quote]"

Spot on.

[garygascoigne]

Jermaine Jenas is becoming the new Jason Dozzell. He is absolutely useless..

[Issac]

Sack Jol? You folks must be joking. Think carefully and you'll know how crap we've been before he came.

We've got a number of injuries at the moment, so keep faith and let's see what happens. He may not be the best manager out there, but surely he deserves more patience than this.

[adoss]

To be honest I think this is the "hold on and pray" stage of BMJ's reign. We have to keep the faith with a manager that's taken us to our best two finishes in many years.

With an influx of players over the past two years and huge expectations, the pressure is on the team and it shows. I don't think it's got anything to do with any spat or sulking in the dressing room. It's all the result of pressure that's been heaped on the team by the press and pundits (and us).

All teams have to go through periods like this if they're going to be great. I think this is just our right of passage. We either hold on to what we have and see it prosper or we knee-jerk into changing things at the crucial stage and lay waste to all that's been built over the past 3 years.

Keep the faith guys.... just a little longer.... :pray:

[Tazza25]

lets get bunjecvic back!! lol no one can serouisly say get jol out!!

[adoss]

Oh yeah and either Jenas on the bench or get rid, he had potential but he seems too idle and mardy to fulfil it. He needs a good thwack to snap him out of his procatanational style.

[Lucky22]

I can't believe the knee-jerk reactions that we have on here. Some of you seem to have been wishing for a poor start just so you can get rid of Jol. Yes, like you are am deflated about our start, but it is clear why we have struggled - injuries.
Jol has been the best manager we've had in the Premiership - he's building a team not just for this season but further down the line. Like it or not, the Jol legacy will live on.
How many times have we sacked a manager in recent times and progressed? Once! - and that was when we got rid of Santini and installed Jol. Managers need some time, so give BMJ a break.

[bigbearJOL]

We all know that Jol has done a fantastic job for us and I would not say get rid of him now...

However, if we dont mak the top four this seaon, maybe we should think of bringing in someone who can take us to the next level.

This is a very important couple seasons for us. The EPL is vastly improving and if we don't take our opportunities to progress, there are a few clubs that could leapfog us.

I'm not saying that Martin Jol is a bad manager. On the contrary he is a very good manager. Despite this, I don't think he is tactically astute enough to take us foward any more. And before anyone says this is a knee-jerk reaction, it's not. I have thought this of Jol for a while now.

It's like when Ranieri was Chelsea boss. he took them as far as he could, and the Chelsea bored realised that. Although I don't like Mourinho, he is the type of manager we need to aim for.

But I would say to give it this season anyway. Bringing in a new manager now could have far worse adverse affecs.

I'm sure we will improve soon, and I hope Jol can prove me wrong

COYS

[2bearis2do]

Actually, I was writing a general comment in response to the speculation about Juande Ramos, not the two game losing streak which I put mainly down to our injuries, and I stand by it. Jol represents a massive improvement (as I mentioned) but I am now not certain he is a Top 4 manager. You?

You are 'NOW' not certain. So therefore an opinion based on the two game losing streak?! Has to be.

Yes, I'll put my head on th eblock. If we can get a full strength team out reqularly then we would be challenging top 4. No doubt. Our team at the moment is one that is a perhaps 5 players away from being at current full strength.

My bigger concern is the failure to buy the correct pieces to the jigsaw. No LM/LW is scandelous.
Midfield needs strengthening.
Is that BMJ's fault? I don't know.
But playing players OUT of POSITION (Keano) certainly is. Hopefully he has learnt that lesson PDQ.

He CAN take us to the next level (with a little more luck, a little more experience and less dodgey last game of the season meals).

[dominguezmonkey]

Completely agree with the Ranieri comparison. He also was well-liked by Chelsea fans, other fans and the media and yet had to go when it became clear that he had taken them as far as he could. I'm not convinced that Jol has taken us as far as he can and he's earned our faith. Last season the more games we played, the more confident we got which is another reason I can't wait for the cup competitions to start.

Why we can't hit the ground running is another question. I'm no genius but I suspect our catastrophic injury crisis hasn't helped. We've also clearly never got over losing both Carrick and Davids who gave class and steel to our midfield in equal measures. I'd love to say Hudd is the answer but his reaction speed just isn't comparable to Carrick's. We need to find another metronome before this symphony can be properly played.

[2bearis2do]

We all know that Jol has done a fantastic job for us and I would not say get rid of him now...

However, if we dont mak the top four this seaon, maybe we should think of bringing in someone who can take us to the next level.

This is a very important couple seasons for us. The EPL is vastly improving and if we don't take our opportunities to progress, there are a few clubs that could leapfog us.

I'm not saying that Martin Jol is a bad manager. On the contrary he is a very good manager. Despite this, I don't think he is tactically astute enough to take us foward any more. And before anyone says this is a knee-jerk reaction, it's not. I have thought this of Jol for a while now.

It's like when Ranieri was Chelsea boss. he took them as far as he could, and the Chelsea bored realised that. Although I don't like Mourinho, he is the type of manager we need to aim for.

But I would say to give it this season anyway. Bringing in a new manager now could have far worse adverse affecs.

I'm sure we will improve soon, and I hope Jol can prove me wrong

COYS

Lets not forget. Jol is still learning. He is a young manager. I wouldn't swap him for anyone else. And would like to see him have 5 years with us then decide.
Ultimately we're not going to become a mid table mediocre team under him which is what we've had to put up with for 20years.
It'll be a roller coaster. But thats why we're Spurs fans!

[dominguezmonkey]

You are 'NOW' not certain. So therefore an opinion based on the two game losing streak?! Has to be.

Yes, I'll put my head on th eblock. If we can get a full strength team out reqularly then we would be challenging top 4. No doubt. Our team at the moment is one that is a perhaps 5 players away from being at current full strength.

My bigger concern is the failure to buy the correct pieces to the jigsaw. No LM/LW is scandelous.
Midfield needs strengthening.
Is that BMJ's fault? I don't know.
But playing players OUT of POSITION (Keano) certainly is. Hopefully he has learnt that lesson PDQ.

He CAN take us to the next level (with a little more luck, a little more experience and less dodgey lasy game of the season meals).

Ask Boulharouz how crap Keano is when he's played out of position. But I do know what you're getting at.

[joey.leone]

no no no to davies, 10 million can be spent on a midfielder, one which can drive and dictate a game, we need to truly replace carrick!

[worcestersauce]

no no no to davies, 10 million can be spent on a midfielder, one which can drive and dictate a game, we need to truly replace carrick!


For 10 million? who? and how much wages would they want?

Even average players like Barton and Petrov want £70k a week.

[avonspurs]

Lets not forget. Jol is still learning. He is a young manager. I wouldn't swap him for anyone else. And would like to see him have 5 years with us then decide.
Ultimately we're not going to become a mid table mediocre team under him which is what we've had to put up with for 20years.
It'll be a roller coaster. But thats why we're Spurs fans!

I agree. I've heard a lot of things said about Jol's 'Inept tactics' - - I agree: some poor decisions have been made but he has also made some good tactical choices....think back to Chelsea away in the FA Cup where, tactically, he outshone Mourinho. I do agree, however, that he's made poor decisions...but he is still learning, he is still relatively young and I cant think of any manager (bar Mourinho or Ferguson) around that could improve us.

Also, yeah, we've lost two games. Deserved to lose the first, was unfortunate at the second (and Everton are looking a good team so they will take some stopping), but its still only two games....we need to give him more time.

[RogerTCB]

You are 'NOW' not certain. So therefore an opinion based on the two game losing streak?! Has to be...
Not quite. If during pre-season I was completely behind him, agreed, but if since his appointment I've now come to the oppinion... bad grammer maybe? anyhow.

I wasn't advocating Jol out and still am not. I'm just not saying keep him even if there is a better option available. He has earned our faith until that time comes. He has yet to have a Moyse-like second season (and is due one) and I wouldn't chuck him out on the strenght of it so long as he is making the best of what's given him; a debate well started by BBleGin.

[NeverRed]

I think it's more likely a discussion on transfers considering the depleted squad situation and iminent (if not complete already) transfer of Mido... Levy know's we've got good in MJ and isn't the type to react hastily or get involved in footballing matters just 2 games into the season. He's got more sense then that unlike some 'fans'

[rooster1]

We have a defensive crisis, but we've had a midfield
one that's been hatching for some time now.

The leftsided issue has been brushed aside it seems
and now we're paying for it.

We have good midfielders, but the positions that
they play in are not suited for some of them.
It's funny , when Lennon's back things will probably
fit into place.We need a creative engine at the mo.

I'm hoping we can get a result out of the next few games and Jol still can install confidence into the side.

COYS.

[philp]

I couldn't agree more, I have been a Spurs supporter for 55 (yes fifty five) years. and I can only remember two managers I had more confidence in than Martin Jol. Remeber Alex Ferguson was close to being sacked in the early days of his reign. Lets give Martin Jol a big dose of patience, Rome wasn't built in two seasons!!!

[vigospur]

My problem with Jol has always been the same. He is at a Club with a youth policy but won't select young players. Something wrong there surely.
Huddlestone is a case in point. None of us know for sure whether he is good enough but I spit feathers when Jol blames defeat on the lack of creativity - having failed to select any creative players!! Someone explain please.

[2bearis2do]

Still think we need to get very busy in the transfer market before end of August.
If the Upper Management team does NOT address the glaring missing pieces of the team. Then they have only themselves to blame.
Does ANYONE on this site ACTUALLY KNOW the DECISION MAKING PROCESS behind our transfer dealings?
I for one would love to know factually WHO identifies what we NEED? WHO finds that PLAYER and then WHO actually says YES to that buy?

Logic would suggest:
BMJ: "We need a LM/LW, do go and find one DC"
DC "I've found one, he's great BMJ lets go knock on DL door and see if we can buy him"
DL "Is this the missing piece of your jigsaw Martin"
BMJ "Yesh"
DL "OK done deal"


Still not clear in my book.

[StokeSpur]

Theres no concerns here, people arnt allowed to question Jol here, all we get when we do is the boring comments like 'short memorys' blah blah, 'fickle' blah blah.

Glad to see its not just the fans, no, the fans without the rose tinted glasses on, the ones who arnt scared to voice thier concerns, Its good to know that Levy is seeing what we see too too.

I have no doubt he is/was the best thing we have had in ages but he has got his limits too you know.
His team selections, the bench's and the substitutions alone warrent asking serious questions of his thoughts and tactics and that would apply to any manager.

I guess it boils down to do you believe in god.

[rooster1]

Theres no concerns here, people arnt allowed to question Jol here, all we get when we do is the boring comments like 'short memorys' blah blah, 'fickle' blah blah.

Glad to see its not just the fans, no, the fans without the rose tinted glasses on, the ones who arnt scared to voice thier concerns, Its good to know that Levy is seeing what we see too too.

I have no doubt he is/was the best thing we have had in ages but he has got his limits too you know.
His team selections, the bench's and the substitutions alone warrent asking serious questions of his thoughts and tactics and that would apply to any manager.

I guess it boils down to do you believe in god.

He's gone to mc donalds to see a specialist, hasn't he ?

[YiddoJames]

Tottenham crocked spurs
What's up with all these injuries?

I'm starting to think Gerry Francis has been back at the training ground! The injury situation is getting as bad as it was under him!

[keepthefaith]

I actually dont think we are that far away from a top 4 team. If you take a step back and look at the last two games we lost away to Sunderland (bet you we wont be the only ones) in the 93 minute in their first game back in Prem and Roy Keane's first ever game at the top level (i.e they were really up for it). We played outstandingly for about 20-30 mins of the first half vs a very solid Everton team (as good as Ive seen us play for a long while) but got beat with a deflected free kick a minute before half time and an accidental push on our goalkeeper by our defender in making an exceptional clearing header. and Berba hits the bar and Kaboul gets injured in 18th min.

Meanwhile Man U have only 2 points from arguably easier games does this mean they cant win the league? and Chesea didnt exactly look like Champions so no one is as yet running away from us. Its still really early.

Berba's injury could be a blessing as now players will play in their natural position. If we can hang on and start picking up points for the next 5-6 games this will be our team for the rest of the season:

Robbo
Chimbonda King Kaboul Bale

Lennon Jenas Zokora KPB

keane Berba

Subs: Dawson, Hudd,Bent,Defoe,Lee, Malbranque

Just look at that bench and tell me we cant get top 4. This should be our team hopefully for 8 out of the 10 months.

So just grit your teeth for the next handful of games and keep the faith!

[liewser]

though im not sure whether he is or is not the right guy to take us into the top four, those arguing along the lines of "hes the best we've had since 1901" you have to realise that that does not make him good enough. Hes not competing with our past managers hes competing with the current managers of other clubs i.e ferguson, wenger, mourinho, benitez, allardyce, moyes etc.

Our club has had financial investment to rival the top clubs for a few seasons now, but if we still can't compete with them in terms of league performance then his credentials will inevitably be brought into question.

[Midostouch]

Really good managers, like Ferguson, are worth having patience in. BMJ will only get better. This is a dreadful start but once the new signings get fit and get to know each other things will improve. It certainly doesn't help if we are baying for blood at this early stage in the season.

BMJ has done a lot better then Martin O'Neill at Villa but if they were to sack him the football world would be laughing their heads off at them. Give BMJ a chance to show what he can do with his new team.

By the way, I know it wouldn't happen but Ghaly could have mixed things up a bit had he come on as sub against Everton

[JKSpurs]

We all know that Jol has done a fantastic job for us and I would not say get rid of him now...

However, if we dont mak the top four this seaon, maybe we should think of bringing in someone who can take us to the next level.

This is a very important couple seasons for us. The EPL is vastly improving and if we don't take our opportunities to progress, there are a few clubs that could leapfog us.

I'm not saying that Martin Jol is a bad manager. On the contrary he is a very good manager. Despite this, I don't think he is tactically astute enough to take us foward any more. And before anyone says this is a knee-jerk reaction, it's not. I have thought this of Jol for a while now.

It's like when Ranieri was Chelsea boss. he took them as far as he could, and the Chelsea bored realised that. Although I don't like Mourinho, he is the type of manager we need to aim for.

But I would say to give it this season anyway. Bringing in a new manager now could have far worse adverse affecs.

I'm sure we will improve soon, and I hope Jol can prove me wrong

COYS


This is spot on. I cringe when I hear the Jol out shouts two games into the season.

If I was in charge then I wouldn't be any where near giving him the boot, but..... Spurs is a business and a multi million pound one at that. Don't think for one second that DL would give it a second thought if he thought he could secure the services of someone he thought could do a better job.

[spursLA]

[quote=cabinfever;564435]Any idea what the problem is ? Is Berbs sulking?[/quote

Recurrence of an old injury? That might piss him off.

[yid-down-under]

Agreed, and put Hud in instead of Zokora or Jenas to give them some protection

[StuckinPoland]

I agree. I've heard a lot of things said about Jol's 'Inept tactics' - - I agree: some poor decisions have been made but he has also made some good tactical choices....think back to Chelsea away in the FA Cup where, tactically, he outshone Mourinho. I do agree, however, that he's made poor decisions...but he is still learning, he is still relatively young and I cant think of any manager (bar Mourinho or Ferguson) around that could improve us.

Also, yeah, we've lost two games. Deserved to lose the first, was unfortunate at the second (and Everton are looking a good team so they will take some stopping), but its still only two games....we need to give him more time.


He did what? He tactically outshone Mourinho? Maybe for the first 66 minutes he did. We're up 3-1 and then he took off Berbatov (our best player by a long long way and the only way we were keeping the ball). As soon as he did that, it reminded me of Argentina taking off Riquelme at the World Cup. I just knew it'd be a disastrous decision and it was.

Being tactically astute for 66 mins is good enough for you but I remember the act that handed the initiative to Chelsea. Jol is NOT tactically aware and needs to learn pretty fast. And, in response to those who say he's a young manager...he's almost 51 !!! I actually think that's middle-aged for a manager.

Unlucky with inuries...yes. Issues with team selection...yes. We need defenders back and quickly too.

COYS !!!

[littleAaronlennon]

All i will say on this matter as indeed i have said before is i will not judge Jol's mangement untill eight league games into the season, incidentally in my opinion when the first authenic league table should be published. Our injuries are unblieveable but some of his tatical decisions still remain baffling for me Keane and Jenas deserved to be dropped to the bench, and Ifil despite being another right back should be given a game at left back as surely he can't be as inept as Stalteri. Also play Huddlestone and Routledge for crying out lound man.

[cabinfever]

Just spotted this in one of the ITK threads and I quote -

"I have it on good authority from someone connected to Joe Lewis that communication between BMJ and the board has broken down and that a replacement could be announced by Saturday and that replacment is Juande Ramos. I must stress that I do not usually post rumours and I will believe it whaen I see it but the guy was adament it is true so thought I would share thais one."

I find it hard to believe but thought people would be interested.

[Romeo]

Just received a textssage "Daniel Levy ha ofrecido 9 million de euros por Guti" Daniel Levy has offered 9 million euros for Guti. I live out here in Spain and my mate is a Madrid fan and normally I wouldnt give credit to this but the fact that he was able to say Daniel Levy gives it a little more credit... although could be complete bollocks.

[MidnightCaller]

We need to give him till January, Would like to see Huddlestone playing with Zokora, giving Huddlestone more of an attacking role with his long shots and great passing.

Said all along we will not get into champions league football, until we get a good left winger, eg Petrov or Taylor

shame Petrov went to Man C

[MidnightCaller]

I'm starting to think Gerry Francis has been back at the training ground! The injury situation is getting as bad as it was under him!


You know why we got injuries, someone told me the spurs team do not do running in training?

Which is why they get injuried running in a match, maybe they should take a leaf out of Huddlestone who does not run at all even in a match.

[vigospur]

Really good managers, like Ferguson, are worth having patience in. BMJ will only get better.

First sentence - obviously.
Second sentence - why?

[El_Stackos]

Could do worse than get Hyppia off Liverpool seeing as Fulham are said to be tabling a 1.5m bid (cheaper and much more experienced than Davies)

[BigStu]

I was saying in the middle of last season that Jol was tactically inept but I was derided as not knowing what i was talking about - I stand by what I said but this is not the fault of Jol alone. At the Scummers Fergie has proved several times that he is a man manager and not a tactician - this is why he has Queiros. We have Hughton - Jol is the man manager Hughton is supposedly the tactician.

Jol can be blamed for not buying a LW which we definately need but with Lennon as one flair player do we need another - i like the idea of Taylor

I can't see us buying Davies unless King is crocked for longer than we know he was very non commital about it on Sky the other night. With a supposed 3-4 weeks left on his injury I would have thought he would be in light training but he didn't say anything about that.

Lets judge Jol in four or five games when we at least have a semblance of a squad out there - how many other teams would struggle with there top 3 CB's out - many haven't got more than 3.

Mind you defeat at Derby could signal the end, as I think with what we have at the moment we will struggle against the Scummers and I think four losses on the trot would mean bye bye Jol.

Personally I would like to see him finish what he has started though

Guti and Hyypia maybe for some experience/grit.

[2bearis2do]

First sentence - obviously.
Second sentence - why?

How did anyone know Ferguson was a great manager until he was given time?

Man some people really don't put there brain in gear before they're tapping away on the keyboard!

As for BMJ. He's had two full seasons. He's only just got 'his' players in, to make 'his' team. And in those two seasons he's finished 5th.

What part of that isn't good?

If he is tactically inept, what does that say for the last 7 Spurs managers pre-Jol?

:bang:

[StuckinPoland]

How did anyone know Ferguson was a great manager until he was given time?

Man some people really don't put there brain in gear before they're tapping away on the keyboard!

As for BMJ. He's had two full seasons. He's only just got 'his' players in, to make 'his' team. And in those two seasons he's finished 5th.

What part of that isn't good?

If he is tactically inept, what does that say for the last 7 Spurs managers pre-Jol?

:bang:

Erm, how old are you? under 25 probably? Ferguson had already won the European Cup Winners Cup while boss at Aberdeen and if memory serves me right, Aberdeen beat Real Madrid along the way, maybe even in the final.

That was around 1983. Almost 25 years ago. So he was around 40 when he "proved" that he could cut it with the big boys.

To then say that some people dont put their brain in gear...the irony of it all.

Jol's the best manager of the last 25 years. The best since Burkinshaw. But he IS tactically inept and disappointingly, seems to be making no improvement in that area. I want him to make Tottenham successful. But it doesn't appear that he's doing it. For all the "success" we've had in upgrading the squad, the credit could go to Arnesen/Commolli more than to Jol.

3 points on Saturday would help. Dropping Jenas would help even more.

COYS !!!

[MJsDeputy]

Jol is confident Tottenham can bounce back from their poor start and steadily climb up the table over the next few weeks. "The players have to show more and they will," he declared. "It has been a bad spell but the season is about a lot of chapters and we have not even had one chapter. "We feel rotten about it and we will do something about it as we did over the last couple of seasons."

That word refers to idiotic fan who want him to be replaced by the like of Harry Redknapp, Capello, Ramos

[Jolmeister]

Just spotted this in one of the ITK threads and I quote -

"I have it on good authority from someone connected to Joe Lewis that communication between BMJ and the board has broken down and that a replacement could be announced by Saturday and that replacment is Juande Ramos. I must stress that I do not usually post rumours and I will believe it whaen I see it but the guy was adament it is true so thought I would share thais one."

I find it hard to believe but thought people would be interested. MARTIN JOL has dismissed claims that Tottenham Hotspur are a club in crisis. Spurs find themselves rooted to the bottom of the Premiership after the first two games and have injuries to key players such as Dimitar Berbatov, Ledley King and Aaron Lennon.
Jol met with Spurs chairman Daniel Levy on Wednesday, but talks were not held over Jol's future at the club, but Levy reportedly was concerned about the number of injured players.
"I can assure you that I saw the chairman last week and the week before, so there was no different situation," Jol told Sky Sports News.

"Of course, like me, he is worried, because of all the players who are out, and he hopes we can do better in the future.

"He assured me he was in the same boat because he is responsible as well.

"The only thing I have to do sometimes is take the pressure off him and tell him that things will be okay, and that is what I did yesterday."

Jol is confident that the players will bounce back from their poor start. He added: "The players have to show more and they will,"

"It has been a bad spell but the season is about a lot of chapters and we have not even had one chapter.

"We feel rotten about it and we will do something about it as we did over the last couple of seasons."

[vigospur]

How did anyone know Ferguson was a great manager until he was given time?

Man some people really don't put there brain in gear before they're tapping away on the keyboard!

As for BMJ. He's had two full seasons. He's only just got 'his' players in, to make 'his' team. And in those two seasons he's finished 5th.

What part of that isn't good?

If he is tactically inept, what does that say for the last 7 Spurs managers pre-Jol?

:bang:

If 5th is good - great for you. Enjoy it.
I thought we were looking to up that. If we are, where is the evidence Jol is the man?:bang: :bang: :bang: :bang:

[Coyboy]

Injuries are hurting us no doubt. It is ridiculous at the back. I am not sure if Davies will work out, he must see that he will be most probably behind Daws, Ledders and Kaboul. When injuries clear up and we may do away with Rocha and Gardner ( which will be slightly unfair), would Davies settle for the bench? Although Ledders struggles with a lot of successive games, Dawson is a machine, Kaboul is young and by what I have heard pretty impressive and you don't want to break up partnerships if you don't have to at the back

Another point is West Brom may up the price because they know we are desperate. We just need to get the points in the bank on saturday and get ready for Old Trafford which will be tough as shit with our injuries but they won't have Rooney or Ronaldo.

Anyone know when Lennon will be back? I would go with;
Robinson'
Chimbonda
Rocha
Gardner
Stalteri
Jenas
Zokora
Huddlestone
Malbranque
Bent
Defoe.

I don't know what is happening with Taarabt but would love to see him soon. Defoe deserves a chance no doubt. I am fucking praying.

[2bearis2do]

Erm, how old are you? under 25 probably? Ferguson had already won the European Cup Winners Cup while boss at Aberdeen and if memory serves me right, Aberdeen beat Real Madrid along the way, maybe even in the final.

That was around 1983. Almost 25 years ago. So he was around 40 when he "proved" that he could cut it with the big boys.

To then say that some people dont put their brain in gear...the irony of it all.

Jol's the best manager of the last 25 years. The best since Burkinshaw. But he IS tactically inept and disappointingly, seems to be making no improvement in that area. I want him to make Tottenham successful. But it doesn't appear that he's doing it. For all the "success" we've had in upgrading the squad, the credit could go to Arnesen/Commolli more than to Jol.

3 points on Saturday would help. Dropping Jenas would help even more.

COYS !!!

Oh dear! I'll try and answer without killing your ego.

Winning the cup winners cup with Aberdeen doesn't instantly make Fergie a 'great manager''. It took him 5 years at Aberdeen before he got his one and only European success and 5 years before he even won a trophy! He is ultimately a great manager because of the achievements he has managed at Man U, not because of what he did with Aberdeen! If memory serves me right Dundee Untied were quite a team at that time, were Real Madrid a great team at that time...errr no! So throw those comparisons into touch. I'm 40 by the way.

How can BMJ be the best manager at WHL for 25 years and then still be called tactically inept? Oh the irony of it all and arguing with folk like you.

He IS doing it you fool and he has been for the last 2 years. He's had a shocking start to the season due to INJURIES. But then again the great Fergie has also had a shocking start to the season so he must be tactically inept too?!

Like I said, brain in gear please.

[2bearis2do]

If 5th is good - great for you. Enjoy it.
I thought we were looking to up that. If we are, where is the evidence Jol is the man?:bang: :bang: :bang: :bang:

Of course we're looking to push on from that you muppet. It's good sure, the best we've had for a decade. Fantastic. Two great exciting seasons. Thats two years of EVIDENCE compared to 2 games of pish poor performance which you use as evidence that he is not up to it.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:


Is anyone getting on Fergies back at this moment in time after their pish poor start? errrr No.
Was anyone hounding Wenger out when they sat mid table after twenty games two seasons ago? errrr No.
When Ar$e had that pish poor spell last season, did any one gooner say Ar4e out...errr no.


Now you could argue that neither is under pressure because of their track record. Fair point. But you don't get a track record by dumping a manager after TWO bad results.

FFS Fickle yids.
:bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang:

[2bearis2do]

A special post for VIGOSPUR and STUCKINPOLAND aka The old guys in the box on The Muppet Show.

Just to reinforce my point and my own cloudy memory. A bit of Fergie research for you.

It took him 5 years at Aberdeen before he had his big ECWC scalp.
It took Fergie 6 years to win the League at Man U. (age 49)

So for the 6 years between a glorious night at Aberdeen and a first title win. He won NOTHING, ZERO, NOWT. So for six years he must have been a pish poor manager?!?!?!

Ans here's a quote for you:

Fergie becomes Man U manager 1986.... Things did not improve during the rest of the 1989, and in November a banner declaring "Three years of excuses and it's still crap. Ta ra Fergie." was displayed at Old Trafford, and many journalists and supporters called for Ferguson to be sacked.[25] United went on a run of six defeats and two draws in eight games and Ferguson later described December 1989 as "the darkest period [he had] ever suffered in the game."

So give Jol a fucking break ffs. He has our best managerial record for 25 years. Fact. Won more, scored more, lost less than any other manager in the preceeding 25 years. GET IT YET?

And still muppets on this site call him inept and not the man to take us forward?!?

He has not peaked as a manager yet. He is in the toughest league in the world and is more than holding his own when you look at the long term stats. Of course he makes errors, of course he makes stupid tactical errors that have us cursing. But he IS the man. He WILL be the man and Spurs injury curse aside, we will get through this bad spell of, lets remind ourselves...err 2 defeats on the trot!

Jesus we used to lose 5 on the trot and battle with relegation not 5 years ago. And it's just so convenient to forget we only lost one in our last 15 EPL games last season when that inept Dutch guy managed us.

:rofl: :bang: :rofl: :bang: :rofl: :bang:

[octavian]

If 5th is good - great for you. Enjoy it.
I thought we were looking to up that. If we are, where is the evidence Jol is the man?:bang: :bang: :bang: :bang:

Where's the evidence he isn't?

[2bearis2do]

Time to run a poll.

How much more time should BMJ be given?

- 3 more games
- 8 more games
- Until January
- Until end of season.
- The 5 year plan.
- As long as it takes.

I'll go with the 5 year plan.
Would be a good poll to run.

[StuckinPoland]

A special post for VIGOSPUR and STUCKINPOLAND aka The old guys in the box on The Muppet Show.

Just to reinforce my point and my own cloudy memory. A bit of Fergie research for you.

It took him 5 years at Aberdeen before he had his big ECWC scalp.
It took Fergie 6 years to win the League at Man U. (age 49)

So for the 6 years between a glorious night at Aberdeen and a first title win. He won NOTHING, ZERO, NOWT. So for six years he must have been a pish poor manager?!?!?!

Ans here's a quote for you:

Fergie becomes Man U manager 1986.... Things did not improve during the rest of the 1989, and in November a banner declaring "Three years of excuses and it's still crap. Ta ra Fergie." was displayed at Old Trafford, and many journalists and supporters called for Ferguson to be sacked.[25] United went on a run of six defeats and two draws in eight games and Ferguson later described December 1989 as "the darkest period [he had] ever suffered in the game."

So give Jol a fucking break ffs. He has our best managerial record for 25 years. Fact. Won more, scored more, lost less than any other manager in the preceeding 25 years. GET IT YET?

And still muppets on this site call him inept and not the man to take us forward?!?

He has not peaked as a manager yet. He is in the toughest league in the world and is more than holding his own when you look at the long term stats. Of course he makes errors, of course he makes stupid tactical errors that have us cursing. But he IS the man. He WILL be the man and Spurs injury curse aside, we will get through this bad spell of, lets remind ourselves...err 2 defeats on the trot!

Jesus we used to lose 5 on the trot and battle with relegation not 5 years ago. And it's just so convenient to forget we only lost one in our last 15 EPL games last season when that inept Dutch guy managed us.

:rofl: :bang: :rofl: :bang: :rofl: :bang:


I congratulate you on doing some research about Ferguson. Very well done. But we're taling about Jol and I still see no evidence to say that he isnt tactically inept. That's the point. I am not saying now and have never said that we should sack him. Of course we shouldn't. But, as you point out yourself, he makes "stupid tactical errors" and frankly, he shouldn't. Not as often as he does anyway. Some people on here would say that he makes a tactical error every week just by playing Jenas.

We started our discussion because you, rather wildly, claimed to remember a time he out-thought Mourinho. Last time I checked, Chelsea went through in the FA Cup 1/4 final. Not us. And in my book, that means Jol was out-thought by Mourinho.

My problem with him is that he doesn't learn from his mistakes and tends to make the same ones over and over again.

I want to believe that he's the man to take us even further than we are now (bottom of the League at present :oops:) But I, and a few others on here, are starting to realise that he might not be who we want him to be. And we're voicing that on this forum. I would never boo Tottenham and those fans need a one-way taxi down the Seven Sisters road.

COYS and come on Jol. The hope is still there. But the faith is dwindling.

[switcher.]

Maybe its just me but when jol played all out attack against everton late in the second half, jenas was forced to play deep and sweep up. He may be no fabregas but he'd make a damn good defensive midfielder. Strong, quick, great agilty and a surprisingly good tackle. On second thoughts maybe it is just me!!

[sunnydelight786]

I thought i would shed some light on Sir Alex Fergusons "true" record at Aberdeen.

Appointed manager in 1978.

Won his first honour with them, the Scottish League, in 1980. Goes on to win 2 more, 3 in total, in 1984 (League & Cup double) and 1985.

Won Scottish cups in 1982,3,4 & 6.

Won League cup in 1986

Won European Cup Winners Cup in 1983 beating Real Madrid in the Final.

Won European Super cup in 1983 by beating the European Cup holders Hamburg.

Dundee Utd won the league in 1983 and the League cup in 1981 & 1982, not really that great a team were they compared to SAF Aberdeen!!!

Just thought i would correct you 2bearis2do. In conclusion it took SAF only 2 years to win his first trophy, not 5 as you stated. Nothing like a good lie to get in the way of the truth eh..... SAF has also had a poor start to the season too but they did'nt lose there games did they? Also SAF has a cabinet full of trophies to show for his managerial career, as much as i love BMJ he does'nt. After the money that has been spent we, as Spurs fans, have every right to question what's going on.

Yes we only lost 1 in our last 15 last year, but truth be told that only masked over the mediocre start to the season we had. We did finish 5th, but that was only achieved in the last week of the season, kinda masks over what really was going on earlier and the shambolic exits we had out of all 3 cup's we were in. We are all entitled to our own opinions, you have yours and i respect that and i have mine. Put simply, for the squad we had last season and the positions we were in in all the cup's i feel that we underachieved last season. Ultimately the blame lies with Jol as he is the manager who makes all the big decisions. I have already stated many times on this site that it was imperative to start off well this season to stand a realistic chance of a top 4 place, we have'nt so who is to blame? Yes we have injuries in defence but that dont excuse our lack of creativity going forward or why the players were not bought for the positions that really needed strengthening i.e. LM, Midfield General and also a playmaker. Why spend £16.5m on a position that was not the problem???

[vigospur]

A special post for VIGOSPUR and STUCKINPOLAND aka The old guys in the box on The Muppet Show.

Just to reinforce my point and my own cloudy memory. A bit of Fergie research for you.

It took him 5 years at Aberdeen before he had his big ECWC scalp.
It took Fergie 6 years to win the League at Man U. (age 49)

So for the 6 years between a glorious night at Aberdeen and a first title win. He won NOTHING, ZERO, NOWT. So for six years he must have been a pish poor manager?!?!?!

Ans here's a quote for you:

Fergie becomes Man U manager 1986.... Things did not improve during the rest of the 1989, and in November a banner declaring "Three years of excuses and it's still crap. Ta ra Fergie." was displayed at Old Trafford, and many journalists and supporters called for Ferguson to be sacked.[25] United went on a run of six defeats and two draws in eight games and Ferguson later described December 1989 as "the darkest period [he had] ever suffered in the game."

So give Jol a fucking break ffs. He has our best managerial record for 25 years. Fact. Won more, scored more, lost less than any other manager in the preceeding 25 years. GET IT YET?

And still muppets on this site call him inept and not the man to take us forward?!?

He has not peaked as a manager yet. He is in the toughest league in the world and is more than holding his own when you look at the long term stats. Of course he makes errors, of course he makes stupid tactical errors that have us cursing. But he IS the man. He WILL be the man and Spurs injury curse aside, we will get through this bad spell of, lets remind ourselves...err 2 defeats on the trot!

Jesus we used to lose 5 on the trot and battle with relegation not 5 years ago. And it's just so convenient to forget we only lost one in our last 15 EPL games last season when that inept Dutch guy managed us.

:rofl: :bang: :rofl: :bang: :rofl: :bang:

Thanks for the special post. Way too personal. If you bothered to read any of my posts you would know that I have never slagged Jol off. Just so you understand my point of view.
1. It is disrespectful and silly to call him a mug. His record is better than that.
2. It is equally silly to say that he will become a great manager. That is a judgement call but there are far too many questions around his team selection / tactics / motivation.
Think Reading / Sheff U/ Watford last year.
3. It is not losing 2 games that worries me. I thought we were brilliant when we lost to Newcastle last season. It is the abject way we played in the 2 games.
4. In summary I don't want him sacked but I don't want people over hyping him either.
5. Chill out.

[2bearis2do]

I congratulate you on doing some research about Ferguson. Very well done. But we're taling about Jol and I still see no evidence to say that he isnt tactically inept. That's the point. I am not saying now and have never said that we should sack him. Of course we shouldn't. But, as you point out yourself, he makes "stupid tactical errors" and frankly, he shouldn't. Not as often as he does anyway. Some people on here would say that he makes a tactical error every week just by playing Jenas.

We started our discussion because you, rather wildly, claimed to remember a time he out-thought Mourinho. Last time I checked, Chelsea went through in the FA Cup 1/4 final. Not us. And in my book, that means Jol was out-thought by Mourinho.

My problem with him is that he doesn't learn from his mistakes and tends to make the same ones over and over again.

I want to believe that he's the man to take us even further than we are now (bottom of the League at present :oops:) But I, and a few others on here, are starting to realise that he might not be who we want him to be. And we're voicing that on this forum. I would never boo Tottenham and those fans need a one-way taxi down the Seven Sisters road.

COYS and come on Jol. The hope is still there. But the faith is dwindling.

A couple of returns for you:
- Yes he makes tactical errors. No doubt. But you can't make tactical erorrs week in week out and still have two of the best seasons that Spurs have witnessed for 25years by being tactically inept in the long run.
- He drives me nuts sometimes. Especially no natural left winger, Keane on a wing and Salts as Left back.
- I think he is forced into these poor decisions due to injuries. He has to find solutions with what he has got. He was looking for a solid start to the season. And as a result chose his 'safest' starting 11 (in terms of experience and 4 x CM's). That decision has obviously slapped him in the face.
- I think he has probably learnt his biggest lesson yet in these first two games of the season.
- Everyone has a blip. Read Fergie quote.

- It wasn't me that posted the Chelski example. I tend to agree with you for 66mins we out thought them, then he took BBtv off, but wasn't that because he was injured, if memory serves me right? So I don't think JM out thought him. JM was in a huge panic until DB came off. A little bit of luck goes a long long way as the top managers will say.

Faith is the solution. Its when the chips are down that ones true qualities will surface. The real question is how long will the fans and the board give him? Hence I vote for a poll. As I think this is the time to see how much support he really does have?

If we hadn't has such a terrible pre-season injury list. We'd be in good shape and there wouldn't be all these 'tactically inept' discussions.

COYS

[2bearis2do]

I thought i would shed some light on Sir Alex Fergusons "true" record at Aberdeen.

Appointed manager in 1978.

Won his first honour with them, the Scottish League, in 1980. Goes on to win 2 more, 3 in total, in 1984 (League & Cup double) and 1985.

Won Scottish cups in 1982,3,4 & 6.

Won League cup in 1986

Won European Cup Winners Cup in 1983 beating Real Madrid in the Final.

Won European Super cup in 1983 by beating the European Cup holders Hamburg.

Dundee Utd won the league in 1983 and the League cup in 1981 & 1982, not really that great a team were they compared to SAF Aberdeen!!!

Just thought i would correct you 2bearis2do. In conclusion it took SAF only 2 years to win his first trophy, not 5 as you stated. Nothing like a good lie to get in the way of the truth eh..... SAF has also had a poor start to the season too but they did'nt lose there games did they? Also SAF has a cabinet full of trophies to show for his managerial career, as much as i love BMJ he does'nt. After the money that has been spent we, as Spurs fans, have every right to question what's going on.

Yes we only lost 1 in our last 15 last year, but truth be told that only masked over the mediocre start to the season we had. We did finish 5th, but that was only achieved in the last week of the season, kinda masks over what really was going on earlier and the shambolic exits we had out of all 3 cup's we were in. We are all entitled to our own opinions, you have yours and i respect that and i have mine. Put simply, for the squad we had last season and the positions we were in in all the cup's i feel that we underachieved last season. Ultimately the blame lies with Jol as he is the manager who makes all the big decisions. I have already stated many times on this site that it was imperative to start off well this season to stand a realistic chance of a top 4 place, we have'nt so who is to blame? Yes we have injuries in defence but that dont excuse our lack of creativity going forward or why the players were not bought for the positions that really needed strengthening i.e. LM, Midfield General and also a playmaker. Why spend £16.5m on a position that was not the problem???

Good research. I had all that at my fingertips too. But the point I was replying to was "He can cut it with the best because he won the ECWC against RMadrid". Which took him 5 years to do!

Its hard to compare any Scottish Championships/Cups with high quality management (controversial but true) Without research Rangers have won the title 40+ times as have Celtic, ditto with the cups. Grahame Souness/Walter Smith and no doubt many more who ventured South didn't exactly set the Eglish top division on fire did they. Nor did they do very well in Europe did they?!

Ferguson is a one off. A brilliant brilliant manager, but it's easy to say that now. They certainly weren't saying that at Old Trafford 3 years into his reign were they?!

Thing is I'm agreeing with you on many things:
NOT Bought the RIGHT players! Being my biggest bug bear. I couldn't agree more with the positions you mention. But as per many of my previous posts....is Jol to blame or is it DC? or indeed DL? What is that Decision Making Process?
I really don't know who makes those decisions, do you?

Where I disagree is that we underperformed last season.

Fifth followed by Fifth + good cup runs makes that the best and most exciting season we've had since the days of KBurk. And because of the amount of games we played last season it was an improvement on the season before.

With all our talent and large squad and money spent. Its a young, brand new BMJ team that will take time to gel. We NEED to give him that time. He needs a settled line up (read 2 seasons ago for example of what a settled team can achieve)

Give him time. Go with the five year plan. It will pay dividends in the long run. Check out the David Moyles record over the last 4 seasons. Up and down like a brides nightie!

Good debate...

[2bearis2do]

Thanks for the special post. Way too personal. If you bothered to read any of my posts you would know that I have never slagged Jol off. Just so you understand my point of view.
1. It is disrespectful and silly to call him a mug. His record is better than that.
2. It is equally silly to say that he will become a great manager. That is a judgement call but there are far too many questions around his team selection / tactics / motivation.
Think Reading / Sheff U/ Watford last year.
3. It is not losing 2 games that worries me. I thought we were brilliant when we lost to Newcastle last season. It is the abject way we played in the 2 games.
4. In summary I don't want him sacked but I don't want people over hyping him either.
5. Chill out.

Morning Vigo.
-The old men in the box was simply tongue and cheek chap. Nothing personal about that...so chill out.
- I have no idea if he will become a 'great' manager. Only time will tell.
- The abject performances have everything to do with 6 preferred defenders being out. Opposition teams at this level highlight that weakness and go for the weakest link...Paul Stalteri! It would affect any top 4 team. Witness Chelski without Terry!
- As per many of my previous posts. I too am not happy with the current BMJ decisions. But he has done enough in the last 2 years for me to give him a break and refrain from calling him inept.
- Every supporter of every club can point to defeats and say it was because of their managers poor tactical decisions. Hence it is important to look at the long term record and not the short term blips.
- He has the best managerial record of any Spurs manager for 25 years. (It's actually game for game on a par with Bill Nich and better than Burkinshaw)
- Thats not over hyping him. Thats giving him respect for the way he has turned our mediocre mid table muppets into a team which has over the last two seasons has excited us and given us hope.
- I've possibly the lowest blood pressure in Europe chap but love a good debate with a bit of tongue and cheek.

So...Take it Easy like a Lemon Squeezy.
and
COYS

[lifeof...]

My Gob is very smacked (very shocked)about all this. And about 1 hour ago on ESPN Sportscentre they stated the bookies have suspended all bets on Jol being the 1st manager to loss his job... Im...well Gob Smacked

[vigospur]

Morning Vigo.
-The old men in the box was simply tongue and cheek chap. Nothing personal about that...so chill out.
- I have no idea if he will become a 'great' manager. Only time will tell.
- The abject performances have everything to do with 6 preferred defenders being out. Opposition teams at this level highlight that weakness and go for the weakest link...Paul Stalteri! It would affect any top 4 team. Witness Chelski without Terry!
- As per many of my previous posts. I too am not happy with the current BMJ decisions. But he has done enough in the last 2 years for me to give him a break and refrain from calling him inept.
- Every supporter of every club can point to defeats and say it was because of their managers poor tactical decisions. Hence it is important to look at the long term record and not the short term blips.
- He has the best managerial record of any Spurs manager for 25 years. (It's actually game for game on a par with Bill Nich and better than Burkinshaw)
- Thats not over hyping him. Thats giving him respect for the way he has turned our mediocre mid table muppets into a team which has over the last two seasons has excited us and given us hope.
- I've possibly the lowest blood pressure in Europe chap but love a good debate with a bit of tongue and cheek.

So...Take it Easy like a Lemon Squeezy.
and
COYS

Nice post. Will try to chill out as you suggest.
We can agree the COYS bit anyway (and I really like Martin Jol - just think the jury is out).