Can I trust Tottenham not to let me down again?

[Dougal]

I'll be honest with you. In all my years as a Spurs fan, coming up on 25, I have probably never been so disinterested in the goings-on at my so-called 'beloved' club. We are told about the exciting times ahead, wonderkid signings are drawn to Spurs Lodge like Sénor Ramos was the Paella Pied Piper himself, another 3 new shirts would soon be stretched around my ever-growing gut, there's a Carling Cup Winners title to defend and that ever-present talk of how to break into the top 4 and finally gorge ourselves on the feast at the top table.

And yet here I am, completely underwhelmed at it all for the first time. This, from a Yid who was genuinely excited when told signings like Sullivan, Tramezzani, Kerslake, Calderwood, Perry, Sherwood, Acimovic, Blondel, Fox... (I've got to stop, I don't know if these are tears of laughter or despair) ...were worthy to wear the cockeral on their breast. I did the whole 'being a Yid in the 90's' thing and I survived, though emotionally battered, the barren spell between our two cups of that decade. But only for another carpet of dust to land where the trophies should be until the moment Jonathan Woodgate rose highest and once more, the rollercoaster ride continued.

As with a rollercoaster the last paragraph leaves me a little sick. The lows dragged for years, the highs were the occasional days. Did we peak again last February? Certainly our players believed they could take it easy for the remainder of the season, the only duty they seemed capable of fulfilling was to give interviews reassuring us that they would fulfill all of their duties. Yeah, thanks for that, great read. I'm ready to consign that faltering end of season to the less glamourous pages of our history books now and apologise to those who had already done so. Attentions were quickly turned to all of the expectations I listed at the top, another wind of change was blowing through the corridors of Spurs Lodge. One that leaves me cold despite the obvious ground Mr Levy and Co. have made up in the last few years.

And why? Like a mistreated pet rescued by the RSPCA and passed onto to a new, seemingly caring, family, I should really cower in the corner until I'm sure it's safe to some out. I shouldn't invest my all into the benefits of this new lease of life because, as mentioned, I have all too often been left battered, cold and sick by the hope a new dawn brings. Unfortunately, there is no getting away from being a football fan, not in the long run. My season ticket has been renewed once more, I've taken the bait. So before I trust Spurs to finally get it right I'm taking a backseat. A break from the transfer rumours. My new home shirt that I got as a birthday present sits in a drawer at home, worn on the day I got it but unused since. I dip in and out of Euro 2008 games so my footballing clean slate does not become tarnished with thoughts of putting a bid in for David Villa. I allowed myself to have a look at the YouTube footage of Giovani Dos Santos but only when the transfer was officially announced.

Like the Irish and British players in our squad, I'm going to be returning to pre-season refreshed after a long summer break and it will be at that moment when I fully expect the new season to shower me with the kind of hope, enthusiasm and promise that it did 20 years ago. The wrongs done to me and fellow Spurs fans will once more be forgotten, wrongly or rightly, and my trust will be offered up to those who wear the shirt. I sure as hell hope they deliver.

Damn them anyway, despite my reservations, the excitement is already beginning to take a grip. I'm off to try on my shirt again.

[Kendall]

Good post. Much of the feeling perhaps comes from the fact that in the 90s and first half of this decade we were just never good enough, but our boys for all their lack of genuine quality, always tried so damn hard.

Now we see £40-60m spent each year only for half the players to give up the ghost half way through, some itching for a move just a year into their contracts.

We're in a weird hole where we're not good enough to bring to good times back regularaly, but the team itself is not quite shit enough for us to give them genuine sympathy.

[The Original Yiddster]

in answer to your question.........yes!

but its Spurs sit back and enjoy the ride.

[Pinto]

You are so disinterested you wrote all of that?? :violin:

While I agree with some of what you said, it is Spurs, it is what you have signed on for being a fan. This year of all the years being a Spurs fan you choose to be disinterested?? We have a good squad and a good manager, we are making solid signings and future is bright, by all means jump off the bandwagon for all I care.

[danielneeds]

Its Spurs, there will be highs and lows again this season, there always has been and always will be. As the original post said, in the late 90's all we had were lows, so lets be thankful.

[beals]

Unfortunatly such is the life of a Tottenhan fan, good read and lets hope this is the year...COYS

[Dougal]

We have a good squad and a good manager, we are making solid signings and future is bright

The problem is that we have been taken in by this kind of talk before. Every fresh start is meant to be the time we get it right at last. It's easy to be carried away with sentences like the one above but I've seen countless managers line up with countless players for pre-season photocalls and every time you'd have someone saying 'We have a good squad and a good manager, we are making solid signings and future is bright'. Don't get me wrong, they will have my full support as usual when they take the pitch, as I have already stated, but I won't get carried away so easily, now more than ever. I want to enjoy it more, not face being let down by false expectations. It's those same expectations that leads to unrest when it doesn't all quite go as it should. I'm stopping to take a deep breath, looking forward to sustained progress and just hoping the next downturn in fortune isn't going to happen anytime soon. It sounds very pessimistic for me of all people but it is too easily labelled as that by those who buy into an overly optimistic view. It's amazing what stepping back and looking at things from another angle can do. I'm just sharing that view.

[Lucky22]

I know where you're coming from Dougal. Over the last four or five summers we've been linked with a long list of brilliant players, but at the moment I refuse to get my hopes up until I see them standing at Spurs Lodge with the new shirt on.
But, I have to admit, that the concerns you express is exactly what being a Spurs fan is all about (for me it is anyway). Two of my best mates are Liverpool mad and they talk about their lack of success and how it can be so difficult following the Scousers. One day I told them where to go and told them what life was like as a Spurs fan. This was before this season's Carling Cup success, so, as I explained, since I really got into the club we've only won two trophies the 91 FA and two League Cups - now that's a long time between silverware and it takes a lot to keep going when faced with the fact that we are always more likely not to win something.
The Arsenals, ManUs, Chelseas and even the Liverpool fans have been lucky enough to get a trophy once in a while - at the very least one or two every other season, at most doubles and even trebles. That would help keep my spirits up. But when it averages out one every 10 years, it can be a tough slog.
But that, I believe, gives genuine Spurs fans a lot more integrity than most. We can't be blamed for glory hunting or of following a trend team. We are in it for the long haul and when those sweet, sweet moments of victory arrive it makes it so much better. And I'm not just talking about trophies - I'm talking about the wins over the Big Four (although they are few and far between) and, better still, qualification for Europe. I don't care when others scoff that we have landed a UEFA Cup berth - I do a merry jig and look forward to European Nights of Glory at the Lane.
Yes, we've been burnt many many times in the past (I really thought Christian Gross was to be our saviour), but you can't enjoy the highs if you've never experienced the lows...

[karennina]

Ah yes, the heady days of childhood brainstorming - "Paolo Tramezzani! He's Italian! Must be superb, and why do they say we can't win the league when I know that with a little luck we could do it." Having said that, Modric and Dos Santos give me hope for a more truely Spurs like team than we've seen since those few games when the creaking legs of Hoddle's veterans creaked into gear and we played some really attractive stuff. It's just a feeling that the exuberance of Dos Santos' play won't be curtailed by a desire to be an extra in a kidulthood world, and that Modric has the grit and intelligence along with the skill to really run a premiership midfield in a way that Jenas probably won't ever quite manage.

[Bonjour]

I reckon the interweb has a part to play somewhere down the line...

[Dougal]

I reckon the interweb has a part to play somewhere down the line...

Agreed. Between that and the media, the overkill takes some of the fun out of it for me.

[minesadouble]

I can't decide who to feel most sorry for. The younger fan who has never known the "good times" when we sat at the top table and won trophies regularly, or the older fan (like me) who remembers the 60s, 70s and early 80s, and has then had to live through all the "bad times" since, knowing that there really was a time before Sky Sports and the 'Premier League' when the greatest players dreamed of wearing our shirt.

Be optimistic, my friends, not because there is any certainty about the future, but because we're fans, and above all, Spurs fans, so optimistic is the only way to be !

[onthetwo]

I feel the same way actually...dont REALLY care who we sign as long as we start well. I may well commit harry-karry if we lose to Boro..

[hellava_tough]

I can't decide who to feel most sorry for. The younger fan who has never known the "good times" when we sat at the top table and won trophies regularly, or the older fan (like me) who remembers the 60s, 70s and early 80s, and has then had to live through all the "bad times" since, knowing that there really was a time before Sky Sports and the 'Premier League' when the greatest players dreamed of wearing our shirt.

Be optimistic, my friends, not because there is any certainty about the future, but because we're fans, and above all, Spurs fans, so optimistic is the only way to be !

I hear what you're saying.

I started supporting Spurs in 1990, just before we won the FA cup, when I was 8 years old.

I was a fresh-faced football-obsessed Spurs fan, who optimistically thought that Spurs were "going to challenge this season". And how wrong I always was.

And every season was the same, and all my Gooner friends took the piss so badly; how could one club inflict so much emotional torture on a fan-base?

And just when we thought things were getting better our beloved captain turned traitor and joined the darkside...FOR NOTHING!!

Fortunately, I was 18 at this point and getting laid, so that eased the pain a bit....BUT THAT'S NOT THE POINT, GODDAMMIT!!

So, anyway, I'm always a little apprehensive before the start of a season, especially so after the crap we had to endure at the start of the last season, when we were supposedly going to make the top 4.

Anyway, I've said it once, and I'll say it again:

When we finally win the Premiership, it'll be OH SO sweet!

:beer::hump::beer::hump::beer::hump:

[Caboose]

I agree with you Dougal, I've been totally underwhelmed this summer. I'm the same age and have gone through the same experiences as you. These past four years have been really exciting with each summer the level of expectancy rising.

Last summer we were being all hyped up to break the top four but I didn't quite believe it. For once I should have listened to my heart instead of my head. My heart was telling me not to get too hopeful as this is Spurs and they never achieve as they should. My head was telling me that we had had two 5th place finishes in a row and had improved our squad so we would do it. Yes we had the cup win, and you can't beat the one off excitement of a cup win, but the week in week out pain of watching us limp through matches frustrated me and dampened my respect for the squad of players.

Am I excited this summer - no.
Will I give them all my support - Yes.
What does my head say? - We'll do well
What does my heart say? - We'll be let down - again

Hopefully my heart is wrong this time.

[theMAXILOPEZpsycho]

...20 years ago you were comming up to being 5?..were you exited about pre-season aged 5? personally I (a spurs fan of the same age) was playing with transformers, pulling up girls skirts, eating small insects - and the like...

But anyway, your post will resonate with all spurs fans and indeed all fans of clubs outside the top 4. We all must ask ourselves - what is the point of getting exited? If we know the absolute best we're aiming for is 4th - and even that seems bloody unlikely. Yet as a Spurs fan we have one or two that the big clubs themselves would be envious of, and a few wonder kids. Yet we know if they're really a hit, they'll be wrestled away from us before they even reach their prime. If not we're left with more embrassing recollections a la blondel...

Imagine being a boro fan, a villa fan, an everton fan. The two latter finished above us, yet, I say it's easier to delude yourself that spurs can take on the top 4 than those teams. Spurs match the spending of Arsenal, or spend more, thats one of the reasons it really would appear we're cursed - not just unlucky or crap. Yet we must remember the tranfer pool the scum choose from has been supirior to ours over the years.

Perhaps we all continue to watch just because we want to see how far the farce can go before people realise it is indeed a farce, and that there's some kind of life lesson in there. Who the hell knows? not me. Yet, I've long ago given up buying replica shirts...:shrug::shrug:

[JimmyG2]

Of course you can rely on them- to let you down.But it could be worse you could be a Manchester City fan or even a Chelsea fan.Do we want that kind of success or to be owned by a guy that sacks the manager even when they achieve their targets.
I've followed Spurs man and boy for just on 60 yrs.Ive seen many highs and just as many lows.Ive fallen outyof love on many occasions with the club,sometimes for years but here I am again hoping and working out where Modric will play, whether the mighty Berbatov will still be with us and so on.
My attitude now is that I want to entertained,I want to watch good players playing good football and hope that this brings success.Watch and enjoy is my new mantra.It works for me and I haven't found anywhere else to go which offers me the chance of such joy,exhileration and disappointment.

[ultimateloner]

the answer is NO

Spurs will always let us down and excite us in equal measure.

We are a club/team of drama, not success...just remember that.

[juande.is.a.yido]

the answer is NO

Spurs will always let us down and excite us in equal measure.

We are a club/team of drama, not success...just remember that.

idiot.

[npr60]

idiot.

Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha

[Pinto]

The problem is that we have been taken in by this kind of talk before. Every fresh start is meant to be the time we get it right at last. It's easy to be carried away with sentences like the one above but I've seen countless managers line up with countless players for pre-season photocalls and every time you'd have someone saying 'We have a good squad and a good manager, we are making solid signings and future is bright'. Don't get me wrong, they will have my full support as usual when they take the pitch, as I have already stated, but I won't get carried away so easily, now more than ever. I want to enjoy it more, not face being let down by false expectations. It's those same expectations that leads to unrest when it doesn't all quite go as it should. I'm stopping to take a deep breath, looking forward to sustained progress and just hoping the next downturn in fortune isn't going to happen anytime soon. It sounds very pessimistic for me of all people but it is too easily labelled as that by those who buy into an overly optimistic view. It's amazing what stepping back and looking at things from another angle can do. I'm just sharing that view.

We won some silverware last year for the first time in a very long time and we are in Europe again yet we should not be excited with the team we have??

Just think back 5-7 years when the team was a joke. I also think taking a deep breath is fine and I can't help how you felt in the past or were suckered in by false claims but my honest response to you is if you don't care like you stated in your first post then don't come on here, if you do care then don't make posts saying how disinterested you are. Seems pretty simple to me. Anyway, for the most part I agree with what you are saying just not in the tone you seemed to be portraying is all. You should have said cautious not disinterested is all.

Besides this is Spurs, if you want realistic go support a team that knows its place, Spurs should never settle for average and we as fans should get excited when we bring in huge signings like Modric and Dos Santos with what we already have. Just need a few more signings to shore up def. midfield and goalkeeper IMO. Why not come on here and talk about the signings we need to make to get you excited for the new season then??

Anyway, not trying to be rude to you and think you made some good points just didn't like the attitude is all. :cheers:

[hellava_tough]

the answer is NO

Spurs will always let us down and excite us in equal measure.

We are a club/team of drama, not success...just remember that.

Spot on!




Btw, ultimateloner, can I interest you in a noose?

Very strong and only one user. $50 and it's yours.
PM me for a picture (because the copy n paste isn't working)



What? :shrug:

Make hay while the sun shines :grin:

[hellava_tough]

idiot.


I'm not so sure, but where do I start in the disassembly of your witty and protracted argument?

Er, well, to start with have you been living on Mars for the last 18 years?

Oh, you have.

Sorry, I apologise. :oops:

[Dougal]

...20 years ago you were comming up to being 5?..were you exited about pre-season aged 5? personally I (a spurs fan of the same age) was playing with transformers, pulling up girls skirts, eating small insects - and the like...

You are wrongly assuming that I have been a Spurs fan since birth which is not the case :wink: Shame really, I'd have seen a bit more silverware :-(

We won some silverware last year for the first time in a very long time and we are in Europe again yet we should not be excited with the team we have??

Just think back 5-7 years when the team was a joke. I also think taking a deep breath is fine and I can't help how you felt in the past or were suckered in by false claims but my honest response to you is if you don't care like you stated in your first post then don't come on here, if you do care then don't make posts saying how disinterested you are. Seems pretty simple to me. Anyway, for the most part I agree with what you are saying just not in the tone you seemed to be portraying is all. You should have said cautious not disinterested is all.

Besides this is Spurs, if you want realistic go support a team that knows its place, Spurs should never settle for average and we as fans should get excited when we bring in huge signings like Modric and Dos Santos with what we already have. Just need a few more signings to shore up def. midfield and goalkeeper IMO. Why not come on here and talk about the signings we need to make to get you excited for the new season then??

Anyway, not trying to be rude to you and think you made some good points just didn't like the attitude is all. :cheers:

You've have wrongly latched on to the disinterested part of my post and applied it to the entire post. There is no question of me giving up completely, going away for good and especially not going off to another team! There is no attitude other than trying to seperate and distance myself from the usual pre-season over-expectations and actually wait for a ball to be kicked so I can make up my own mind about where I think we are going and how new players settling in. Last season the expectation levels were higher than they had been for many years but they clashed head-on with behind the scene problems, injuries and another batch of players who had yet to settle in. I was gutted that another year went by in the familiar position of midtable when I was told by the so-called experts that the next stop was top 4. As so many others have noticed in this thread, it is not about giving up, it's about getting a sense of perspective by forming your own opinions based on the actual stuff that happens on the pitch. That's the reason I'm clearing the decks, clearing my head of the over-analysis, I'm going into the new season with hope, as I said things are progressing, just not over-inflated hope.

And as for coming on here just to talk about our new players, nobody on this site is given a charter on what they should talk about concerning Spurs. This is a viewpoint from a Spurs fan who seems to be in sympathy with quite a few other fellow Spurs fans and the whole point of having a Community of this size is to share many different opinions. So if I take a backseat right now (not as you put it 'jump off the bandwagon'), it is perfectly within my rights to do so.

[westlondonyid]

I watched a spurs v wimbledon game on ESPN the other day from late 90's the year we nearly got related under Gross. Apart from Klinsmann the team was full of compete dross and managed by a half bald unknown idiot. The vague hope and optimism of breaking into the top four we now have as spurs fans seems light years away from these days and we should think ourselves lucky. However I cant help but dread that familar dismal away performance on the opening day against boro and going down to a wonder scored by someone who will never ever score a goal like it in his career again.

[hellava_tough]

I watched a spurs v wimbledon game on ESPN the other day from late 90's the year we nearly got related under Gross. Apart from Klinsmann the team was full of compete dross and managed by a half bald unknown idiot. The vague hope and optimism of breaking into the top four we now have as spurs fans seems light years away from these days and we should think ourselves lucky. However I cant help but dread that familar dismal away performance on the opening day against boro and going down to a wonder scored by someone who will never ever score a goal like it in his career again.

FOOL!!!!

The mighty Ginola was playing for us!!







But, to be fair, I know what you're saying

[juande.is.a.yido]

I'm not so sure, but where do I start in the disassembly of your witty and protracted argument?

Er, well, to start with have you been living on Mars for the last 18 years?

Oh, you have.

Sorry, I apologise. :oops:

im only 17 you half wit.

i dont see how you can agree with somebody saying the complete opposite of what our club is based on. tradition and history.

It is better to fail aiming high than to succeed aiming low. And we of Spurs have set our sights very high, so high in fact that even failure will have in it an echo of glory."

[Dougal]

I watched a spurs v wimbledon game on ESPN the other day from late 90's the year we nearly got related under Gross. Apart from Klinsmann the team was full of compete dross and managed by a half bald unknown idiot. The vague hope and optimism of breaking into the top four we now have as spurs fans seems light years away from these days and we should think ourselves lucky. However I cant help but dread that familar dismal away performance on the opening day against boro and going down to a wonder scored by someone who will never ever score a goal like it in his career again.

As I was actually at that game I'm well aware of how far we have come! :lol: I see those times as us under-achieving (in quite a shocking manner!), others might say breaking into the top 4 might be over-achieving for a club that is still progressing. I just want to us achieve and sustain decent momentum, building the whole time instead of being it being such a rollercoaster. To some extent the last few years we've gained that, I'm just not expecting miracles just yet.

[Dougal]

Less of the insults please people :up:

[hellava_tough]

im only 17 you half wit.

i dont see how you can agree with somebody saying the complete opposite of what our club is based on. tradition and history.

It is better to fail aiming high than to succeed aiming low. And we of Spurs have set our sights very high, so high in fact that even failure will have in it an echo of glory."

Hahaha - some good points there, young lad.

However:

Even though our club is based on "tradition and history", it doesn't mean to say that the last 18 years have been nothing but "drama and not success".

How can you disagree with this :shrug:

PS I wish I was 17 again. Tell me juande, is it still a magical place of financial comfort and sexual endeavour?

[hellava_tough]

Less of the insults please people :up:

Fuck off Dougal :wink:

[milkman]

get up for another rollercoaster season with the Yids!

[juande.is.a.yido]

Hahaha - some good points there, young lad.

However:

Even though our club is based on "tradition and history", it doesn't mean to say that the last 18 years have been nothing but "drama and not success".

How can you disagree with this :shrug:

PS I wish I was 17 again. Tell me juande, is it still a magical place of financial comfort and sexual endeavour?

i never once said that the last 18 years have not been shite. in my lifetime weve won the fa cup and two carling cups which is appauling. i just disagree with someone saying we are a drama club not a sucessful one.

and by the way grow up and stop trying to patronise me. i go to work, pay my tax just like you. so fuck off.

[hellava_tough]

i never once said that the last 18 years have not been shite. in my lifetime weve won the fa cup and two carling cups which is appauling. i just disagree with someone saying we are a drama club not a sucessful one.

and by the way grow up and stop trying to patronise me. i go to work, pay my tax just like you. so fuck off.

:lol: Good point

But how do you know I'm not an unemployed ****?

:grin:

[juande.is.a.yido]

:lol: Good point

But how do you know I'm not an unemployed ****?

:grin:

are you unemployed?

[hellava_tough]

are you unemployed?

:grin: very witty!

[VegasII]

Good read mate. The 90s were truly horrible...I started supporting in 91. For most of the time since then until the last few years we've been so guff that the media barely spoke about us except to read our results, report our sackings & to take the pisch. One overpriced bad signing was usually swiftly followed by another.

I always got jealous seeing Leeds & toon signing quality players & being in the top four...not to mention Bolton & Boro in the wafer. How the hell did they get there ahead of us?? Even Fulham & Charlton were better than us for a while.

Now it's clear to see how we were such a joke. No one got more stick than the yido in the class...even the gimpy token lower league fan who had the entire kit including the socks & garters. I think we probably deserved it.

I think we're getting close to having the last laugh.

EDIT: We were such a joke that the only other person we won anything under was a bung paying gooner in a raincoat who everybody hated.

Where did it go wrong? After El Tel?

[juande.is.a.yido]

:grin: very witty!

im curious. are you unemployed? lol

[juande.is.a.yido]

Good read mate. The 90s were truly horrible...I started supporting in 91. For most of the time since then until the last few years we've been so guff that the media barely spoke about us except to read our results, report our sackings & to take the pisch. One overpriced bad signing was usually swiftly followed by another.

I always got jealous seeing Leeds & toon signing quality players & being in the top four...not to mention Bolton & Boro in the wafer. How the hell did they get there ahead of us?? Even Fulham & Charlton were better than us for a while.

Now it's clear to see how we were such a joke. No one got more stick than the yido in the class...even the gimpy token lower league fan who had the entire kit including the socks & garters. I think we probably deserved it.

I think we're getting close to having the last laugh.

the earlyest i remember was arsenal gettin shit hot. and same as you, i was the token yid that got the stick on a monday after being stuffed by i dont know... bradford!!!

IMO we deserve it more than anyone right now and your right its getting close, so close i think i can see it on the horizon!

[hellava_tough]

im curious. are you unemployed? lol

Oh, I thought you were pulling an Oscar Wilde on my white ass.

Er, no...hang about...you ARE pulling an Oscar Wilde!! :grin:

Juande, I'm beginning to like you; just like me when I was 17.

Full of piss n vinegar!!

[hellava_tough]

the earlyest i remember was arsenal gettin shit hot. and same as you, i was the token yid that got the stick on a monday after being stuffed by i dont know... bradford!!!

IMO we deserve it more than anyone right now and your right its getting close, so close i think i can see it on the horizon!

I agree.

After so many years of pain! It's going to be so sweet when it happens!

[juande.is.a.yido]

i wont be your buddy till you announce your occupation. be it lawyer, or tramp.

[hellava_tough]

i wont be your buddy till you announce your occupation. be it lawyer, or tramp.

I'm a...hang about!

I know a stalker when I read one. I bet you're a 48 year old divorcee after my name, address, phone number and my sweet, sweet virgin ass.

Well you're not going to get it. No siree!

It's perverts like you who give porn-lovers a bad name!

[juande.is.a.yido]

ha yeah that right.......... bet your only 16 and i intimidate you but you need to log off soon and get some sleep for your maths GCSE tomorrow lol.

[hellava_tough]

Exactly.

Cover blown.







Btw Dougal, good article, etc. We seem to have gone off point slightly.

Sorry :oops:

[sidtheyidbuck]

i am 64 years old ;my first match i went with my dad it was 1951 i was 7years old i don't remember much at all about it.my real memories start from about 1958...and every year since ;and i mean every year.i was filled with renewed optimism .its no different even now if i was filled with the doom and gloom of some;i would not bother to renew my season ticket..roll on next season we are going to break into the top four ;also win a cup or maybe two.

[davidmatzdorf]

Pedant corner. Obscure point, but here we go anyway.

"Disinterested" is not a synonym for "uninterested". Not a lot of people know that, as Michael Caine would say.

To be "disinterested" in something actually means that you have not invested your money in it. So if you're "disinterested" in Spurs, it means that you don't own shares. Alternatively, it means "neutral", as in "not taking sides". What it doesn't mean is "bored".

The word that every 3rd poster on this thread is looking for is "uninterested", which means that something has not attracted your attention.

I thank you.

[Dougal]

I think I'm in neutral at the moment but I thank you :-)

[Pinto]

You are wrongly assuming that I have been a Spurs fan since birth which is not the case :wink: Shame really, I'd have seen a bit more silverware :-(



You've have wrongly latched on to the disinterested part of my post and applied it to the entire post. There is no question of me giving up completely, going away for good and especially not going off to another team! There is no attitude other than trying to seperate and distance myself from the usual pre-season over-expectations and actually wait for a ball to be kicked so I can make up my own mind about where I think we are going and how new players settling in. Last season the expectation levels were higher than they had been for many years but they clashed head-on with behind the scene problems, injuries and another batch of players who had yet to settle in. I was gutted that another year went by in the familiar position of midtable when I was told by the so-called experts that the next stop was top 4. As so many others have noticed in this thread, it is not about giving up, it's about getting a sense of perspective by forming your own opinions based on the actual stuff that happens on the pitch. That's the reason I'm clearing the decks, clearing my head of the over-analysis, I'm going into the new season with hope, as I said things are progressing, just not over-inflated hope.

And as for coming on here just to talk about our new players, nobody on this site is given a charter on what they should talk about concerning Spurs. This is a viewpoint from a Spurs fan who seems to be in sympathy with quite a few other fellow Spurs fans and the whole point of having a Community of this size is to share many different opinions. So if I take a backseat right now (not as you put it 'jump off the bandwagon'), it is perfectly within my rights to do so.


So you write you are disinterested and I am the one who is wrong?? Like I said before I thought most of what you said was right on the mark, just didn't like the way you started it.

Silly argument so one more time :cheers: no hard feelings

[grittyspur1]

Great thread- living in the US means I always go online after the threads are done!
Personally, Ii'm pretty certain that this next season will be much like the last one- full of ups and downs- heroes and goats! Who the hell knows how we'll finish- (to borrow a phrase that's used around my neck of the woods)That's why they play the games! In a nutshell: that's what being a Spurs fan is all about, and win or loose, we drink the booze!
COYS!!!!:beer:

[Dougal]

So you write you are disinterested and I am the one who is wrong??

Well that all depends on whether you think it is wrong to be disinterested/uninterested in post/pre season hype.

[Coyboy]

I watched a spurs v wimbledon game on ESPN the other day from late 90's the year we nearly got related under Gross. Apart from Klinsmann the team was full of compete dross and managed by a half bald unknown idiot. The vague hope and optimism of breaking into the top four we now have as spurs fans seems light years away from these days and we should think ourselves lucky. However I cant help but dread that familar dismal away performance on the opening day against boro and going down to a wonder scored by someone who will never ever score a goal like it in his career again.

You have got to be banned for calling Ginola 'dross'.

[chico]

I must be one of the older gits on SC .My dad took me to my first game in the 72/73 season. Apart from being at the famous 4-2 victory over Leeds Utd in 1975 I saw alot of dross in the mid seventies . I watched a very young Hoddle breaking into the side ,and the likes of Jennings,Perryman,and Alfie Conn (a fave of mine at the time) . These were lean times ,our ground held over 50,000 and was sometimes only half full, we'd come to the end of the Bill Nick era ,even the pitch was shite! And yet I still loved it , and everything about being a Spurs fan!
The last few years have generally been very exciting ,plenty of goals, some star players and some reasonable success. Imagine being at a club where you could never hope to sign a Modric or a Dos Santos.....at a club not blessed with Keane and Berbatov up front over the last two seasons....at a club with a dull manager getting his side to play sterile football like Curbishley?
My Spurs supporting friend be very grateful for supporting a club with tradition,style,class and expectation. A club genuinely striving for better things on and off the pitch. I agree with some of the previous posts that achieving this success will not be easy , and there will be glitches along the way. BUT ENJOY THE RIDE...AND SUPPORTING WHAT WE "FEEL AND BELIEVE" IS THE GREATEST CLUB IN THE WORLD!
COYS

[Coyboy]

Pedant corner. Obscure point, but here we go anyway.

"Disinterested" is not a synonym for "uninterested". Not a lot of people know that, as Michael Caine would say.

To be "disinterested" in something actually means that you have not invested your money in it. So if you're "disinterested" in Spurs, it means that you don't own shares. Alternatively, it means "neutral", as in "not taking sides". What it doesn't mean is "bored".

The word that every 3rd poster on this thread is looking for is "uninterested", which means that something has not attracted your attention.

I thank you.

Off the top of my head, I was under the impression that 'disinterested' was neutral as you say, not taking a view one way or another. While 'uninterested' means purposefully bored, detached and almost irritable about something or someone.

For example, I am disinterested about horse racing. I really couldn't care less, it doesn't affect me. But I am totally uninterested in Rugby and go out of my way to show and express as much.

I think it was my English teacher that told me that. But he was a Leicester fan. So maybe it was after we beat them in 99 and I took the piss.

[DC_Boy]

I don't know the exact nuances of 'disinterested/uninterested', but I basically take the DM line that these are best seen as 2 different words -

I'm not interested in football (it bores me) = 'uninterested'

A referee is however (or should be) 'disinterested' - ie having no bias to one side or other - but presumably will (indeed should) be interested in football

when looking for the opposite of 'I have a vested interest in' we should be looking for terms like 'I'm disinterested' not 'uninterested'

[Dougal]

Big thanks for bringing this up davidmatzdorf :-)

[gloryglory]

Back to the point - I totally agree with the sentiment. I can't remember feeling less positive about a new season. It's weird, because we have already made some great signings, it's just that ... well, what is it?

I think it's that I invested heavily (emotionally speaking) in Martin Jol. I really, really believed for the first time that we had a manager who was taking us into the top 4. We had everything in place, and Arsenal were ripe for the taking. Somehow, therefore, trophy notwithstanding, last season was the most disappointing I can remember. In my head I knew that it was great to win a trophy, that Ramos has a terrific record, but in my heart, I couldn't help it, I was gutted.

And now the top 4 looks more impregnable than ever, and I just can't see us anywhere near. I just see misery and disappointment. I don't know why - we touched amazing highs last season, the 5-1 over Arsenal was pure bliss - but I think I've reached the point where I believe whoever the manager, whoever the players, there is a glass ceiling for Spurs that we won't break through.

My glass = half empty.

[westlondonyid]

You have got to be banned for calling Ginola 'dross'.

Excuses for leaving Ginola out but for all his talents and wonder goals he scored you could not put him and Klinsmann in the same category but your are right he wasnt dross, he was a great for us but not a true great. My dad reliably informs that Cliff was twice the player. This is howver is besides the point I was making that the standard of our team has vastly improved

[ethanedwards]

Excuses for leaving Ginola out but for all his talents and wonder goals he scored you could not put him and Klinsmann in the same category but your are right he wasnt dross, he was a great for us but not a true great. My dad reliably informs that Cliff was twice the player. This is howver is besides the point I was making that the standard of our team has vastly improved
Got to disagree with you over Ginola being a true great, to me he was the only beacom of light in a very medicore era in our history. He helped to keep the flame alight. It would be very interesting to know how many players who have won double footballer of the year award, playing for a team who were a mid table side as he did in the 1999 seaon.

[davidmatzdorf]

I don't know the exact nuances of 'disinterested/uninterested', but I basically take the DM line that these are best seen as 2 different words -

I'm not interested in football (it bores me) = 'uninterested'

A referee is however (or should be) 'disinterested' - ie having no bias to one side or other - but presumably will (indeed should) be interested in football

when looking for the opposite of 'I have a vested interest in' we should be looking for terms like 'I'm disinterested' not 'uninterested'

For someone who doesn't "know the exact nuances", you've come up with much better examples than I did.

The main point is that there are two words with different meanings and we don't want to confuse them if we can avoid it. That's a real litmus test for me when deciding whether to revive "pedant corner". If it's just a question of whether something is traditionally "correct", it might be wise to keep my gob shut. But if there's a possible loss of a useful meaning, a distinction, a precision of expression, by confusing two usages, then it might be wise to pipe up.

[Locotoro]

Football is a strange ole game...and I often feel the same way you do., feeling let down, not wanting to build my hopes up only to see them dashed.

But for me it always comes back to one simple fact...

I'd rather be a Spurs Supporter than a fan of any other team in the world.

Since I have supported Spurs in the late 80's we have always entertained.

Spurs is a club with tradition, playing the beautiful game, the forefathers of the push and run style, the first British club to win a European trophy, first non-league club F.A Cup winners, the famous five, first team to do the double, Blanchflower, Sir Bill, jimmy greaves, first team ever to win the Uefa cup, Ricky Villa's mazy dribble, Hoddle & waddle, Lineker & Gazza, Gary Mabbut!! our Sony Jumbotrons ,Ossie's Tottingham, Oh when the Spurs go marching in, Klinsmann dive, the return of Teddy, Christian Gross and his underground ticket (ok forget that one), Steffan Fruend the goal machine, David Ginola, wow that goal against Barnsley, his muscleman celebration, We love martin jol martin jol loves me, EUROPE AGAIN!!, yid army! yid army!, Ramos' revolution, the silky Berbatov, 5-1, 5-1, 5-1, Screwing Chelscum in the final!.....Audere Est Facere!

"The great fallacy is that the game is first and last about winning. It is nothing of the kind. The game is about glory, it is about doing things in style and with a flourish, about going out and beating the other lot, not waiting for them to die of boredom."

[hellava_tough]

Football is a strange ole game...and I often feel the same way you do., feeling let down, not wanting to build my hopes up only to see them dashed.

But for me it always comes back to one simple fact...

I'd rather be a Spurs Supporter than a fan of any other team in the world.

Since I have supported Spurs in the late 80's we have always entertained.

Spurs is a club with tradition, playing the beautiful game, the forefathers of the push and run style, the first British club to win a European trophy, first non-league club F.A Cup winners, the famous five, first team to do the double, Blanchflower, Sir Bill, jimmy greaves, first team ever to win the Uefa cup, Ricky Villa's mazy dribble, Hoddle & waddle, Lineker & Gazza, Gary Mabbut!! our Sony Jumbotrons ,Ossie's Tottingham, Oh when the Spurs go marching in, Klinsmann dive, the return of Teddy, Christian Gross and his underground ticket (ok forget that one), Steffan Fruend the goal machine, David Ginola, wow that goal against Barnsley, his muscleman celebration, We love martin jol martin jol loves me, EUROPE AGAIN!!, yid army! yid army!, Ramos' revolution, the silky Berbatov, 5-1, 5-1, 5-1, Screwing Chelscum in the final!.....Audere Est Facere!

"The great fallacy is that the game is first and last about winning. It is nothing of the kind. The game is about glory, it is about doing things in style and with a flourish, about going out and beating the other lot, not waiting for them to die of boredom."

:clap::clap::clap: - now that's what I'm talkin' about!!

[DC_Boy]

Hi DM - thanks for compliments - I put the disclaimer in about 'exact nuances' as I know the English language is one bucking bronco of a beast and is always liable to unseat you at any time you start claiming mastery :-)

Great post Locotoro :-) one small but massive thing tho - AFAIK we are not just the first but the only non-league team to win FA Cup - and I don't see that changing anytime soon

truly the one and only :-)

[BringBack_leGin]

I watched a spurs v wimbledon game on ESPN the other day from late 90's the year we nearly got related under Gross. Apart from Klinsmann the team was full of compete dross and managed by a half bald unknown idiot. The vague hope and optimism of breaking into the top four we now have as spurs fans seems light years away from these days and we should think ourselves lucky. However I cant help but dread that familar dismal away performance on the opening day against boro and going down to a wonder scored by someone who will never ever score a goal like it in his career again.

agreed with much of what you say, and in that 97/98 season we were truly awful, but you are extremely harsh on gross. without him we would surely have been relegated, the reason we were in a relegation fight was because of gerry francis and how low he had dragged us, gross not only saved us from relegation but ensured that we did not finish in the bottom 6, whereas before him, going down was a very real possibility. For an idiot, he has since done brilliantly, winning many titles in Switzerland with Basel and completely overhauling Zurich as the best club there.

And while I loved Klinsmann, and I was happy with his contribution, and I was at that 6-2 game as well, it was hardly he who kept us up, he contributed but I would have thought that the accolade of season saviour must surely go to David Ginola, who was our top scorer from the wing and by far our best player all season long. Not one other player came anywhere near Ginola.

Also, that team did have a lot of dross but there was some flickering of goodness in it. Campbell at that point was arguably the leagues best centre half, definitely the best young one, and he showed as much at the world cup that followed. Anderton when he came back from his injury was brilliant for the final third of the season. Ian Walker was a very capable goalie, who while he made some mistakes made far more spectacular saves. He was no worse than Robinson in Robsinsons first season, but he had an even worse defence in front of him.

Unfortunately Mabbutt was out all season after his opening day leg break but came back on the final day to say goodbye, but Calderwood was decent enough as well. And in midfield, Allan Neilsen is a player who I would take every day of the week ahead of either Jenas or Zokora. Furthermore, while often ridiculed, Ramon Vega is a hero to me. In that league cup final (the worst final I have ever seen by the way) the following season he played on a broken foot and in the final minute cleared from Heskey off the line after a Campbell mistake.

Edinburgh, Austing, Sinton, Fox, Howells, Ferdinand, I will happily accept that all of these were complete eyesores in their time at Spurs, but even then there was good to remember.

And i'll be completely honest, untill we signed Berbatov in the summer of 2006, that season was my most exciting as a season ticket holder at Spurs (my first as a season ticket holder as well) and I remember many more enthralling moments from that season than from the first season in which we finished 5th, which, while I was delighted with our performance, was a pretty dull season on the pitch in which we never won a single game by more than 2 goals.

[DC_Boy]

while it's fair to say Spurs have never had a winger to match Cliff Jones, it's also fair to say Ginola is a true Spurs legend and had he come to Spurs earlier in his career and given us five or six years - he would be seen as a true Spurs great too I reckon

I don't know why I think a true Spurs great is higher praise than a true Spurs legend - it just seems to me it is

anyway what I'm saying is Ginola is right up there with the Berbatovs Klinsmanns and Waddles of this world

but probably not the Greaves Jones Hoddles, Jennings Mackays etc whose longer association with the club put them on a different level

[Locotoro]

its a shame ginola was forced out of the club too

[milkman]

With Ramos yes, with Jol no...

[SlunkSoma]

Is the disinterest possibly down to the fact that we have in these last few months actually signed some quality players and the positivty from previous seasons was based more on hope than actual product (ie the new players coming in). Now we are shaping up to be a quality side are we entering strange new territory - we were more familliar with the 'Oh Zokora can fill Carrick's shoes' 'Helder Postiga will come good' 'all these new players that we have never heard of (Atouba, Edman, Mendes, Pamarot) must be brilliant' type of preseasons because the expectation wasn't actually there afterall, just hope. Now capturing Modric and dos Santos in particlar we and the rest of the footballing world expects us to do the business, thus putting an unfamillair pressure on ourselves.

[Dougal]

Is the disinterest possibly down to the fact that we have in these last few months actually signed some quality players and the positivty from previous seasons was based more on hope than actual product (ie the new players coming in). Now we are shaping up to be a quality side are we entering strange new territory - we were more familliar with the 'Oh Zokora can fill Carrick's shoes' 'Helder Postiga will come good' 'all these new players that we have never heard of (Atouba, Edman, Mendes, Pamarot) must be brilliant' type of preseasons because the expectation wasn't actually there afterall, just hope. Now capturing Modric and dos Santos in particlar we and the rest of the footballing world expects us to do the business, thus putting an unfamillair pressure on ourselves.

That expectation was there last year. New arrivals always bring a risk so as highly as we can rate our new signings there are still no guarantees that they will set the world alight.

[pagevee]

Football is a strange ole game...and I often feel the same way you do., feeling let down, not wanting to build my hopes up only to see them dashed.

But for me it always comes back to one simple fact...

I'd rather be a Spurs Supporter than a fan of any other team in the world.

Since I have supported Spurs in the late 80's we have always entertained.

Spurs is a club with tradition, playing the beautiful game, the forefathers of the push and run style, the first British club to win a European trophy, first non-league club F.A Cup winners, the famous five, first team to do the double, Blanchflower, Sir Bill, jimmy greaves, first team ever to win the Uefa cup, Ricky Villa's mazy dribble, Hoddle & waddle, Lineker & Gazza, Gary Mabbut!! our Sony Jumbotrons ,Ossie's Tottingham, Oh when the Spurs go marching in, Klinsmann dive, the return of Teddy, Christian Gross and his underground ticket (ok forget that one), Steffan Fruend the goal machine, David Ginola, wow that goal against Barnsley, his muscleman celebration, We love martin jol martin jol loves me, EUROPE AGAIN!!, yid army! yid army!, Ramos' revolution, the silky Berbatov, 5-1, 5-1, 5-1, Screwing Chelscum in the final!.....Audere Est Facere!

"The great fallacy is that the game is first and last about winning. It is nothing of the kind. The game is about glory, it is about doing things in style and with a flourish, about going out and beating the other lot, not waiting for them to die of boredom."

Effing brilliant post! Shame I can't rep you for itEek

Have a beer instead.:cheers:

[ChRiStOpHe]

It's funny... I've been a fan since the summer of '97, and have thrown myself, feelings and all, right into Spurs from the very beginning. At a time when I started playing a lot myself, I needed a team to follow, and after a chat with my Dad, it turned out that he'd supported Tottenham year ago. He'd though fallen out of love with the game, but after I decided I would pick up where he left off, his love was rekindled. Now, both fenatics, I still tell him every single summer that next season will be the one. Every single year, he laughs, and teasingly reminds me that, "you say that every year". While he's a nagetive old sod, I've always been the complete opposite. As Dougal and others have pointed out, I used to (and still do, if I'm honest) throw expectations and excitement in the direction of signings who I've barely seen play, if at all. I'm still the same as I was when I was a fresh faced 9 year old with as much knowledge of the game as your average llama. But no matter how blind my excitement is, I'm still buzzing, as I am every summer, 100% certain that we'll not only challenge Liverpool next season for their Champions League place, but actually take it from them.

I know that with another decade of this emotional battering, it's likely to get harder to keep this sort of optimism up, but right now, I'm still as excited as I was back in '97, '98, '99 etc etc etc.

[Chimbo!]

It's funny... I've been a fan since the summer of '97, and have thrown myself, feelings and all, right into Spurs from the very beginning. At a time when I started playing a lot myself, I needed a team to follow, and after a chat with my Dad, it turned out that he'd supported Tottenham year ago. He'd though fallen out of love with the game, but after I decided I would pick up where he left off, his love was rekindled. Now, both fenatics, I still tell him every single summer that next season will be the one. Every single year, he laughs, and teasingly reminds me that, "you say that every year". While he's a nagetive old sod, I've always been the complete opposite. As Dougal and others have pointed out, I used to (and still do, if I'm honest) throw expectations and excitement in the direction of signings who I've barely seen play, if at all. I'm still the same as I was when I was a fresh faced 9 year old with as much knowledge of the game as your average llama. But no matter how blind my excitement is, I'm still buzzing, as I am every summer, 100% certain that we'll not only challenge Liverpool next season for their Champions League place, but actually take it from them.

I know that with another decade of this emotional battering, it's likely to get harder to keep this sort of optimism up, but right now, I'm still as excited as I was back in '97, '98, '99 etc etc etc.

Gr8 post, its good to be an optimistic spurs fan! It is what football is all about.:clap:

[Dougal]

Like a mistreated pet rescued by the RSPCA and passed onto to a new, seemingly caring, family, I should really cower in the corner until I'm sure it's safe to some out. I shouldn't invest my all into the benefits of this new lease of life because, as mentioned, I have all too often been left battered, cold and sick by the hope a new dawn brings.

It has happened again. Maybe a few more people will understand where I was coming from a few weeks ago when I wrote this.

[CosmicHotspur]

Disillusionment set in for me when wages hit the roof, crashed through it and took to the skies. It has changed the game beyond recognition and even though I lived for 19 years just a few miles from N17 until we moved a couple of years ago, I couldn't even afford to go to matches for at least the last ten of those years.

I find all the conflicting ITK and transfer rumours too dizzying to read so I just check out headlines and then patiently wait for confirmation of changes when they actually materialize.

However, I was born and bred in Tottenham and being a Spurs supporter is in my blood and, despite the ups and downs of latter years, that could never change. It's the club and its tradition and its very soul that I love. Players come and players go, some are legends, some are better forgotten. I always have a tiny thread of hope to cling on to that we will see truly great days again and reclaim our rightful place at the top where the name of Tottenham Hotspur belongs.

Maybe Ramos will do it, maybe he won't. Perhaps it won't even happen (again) in my lifetime, but it DID happen in the 60s and I was lucky enough to be there to witness it.

Whatever happens, this season I will again have moments of sheer despair and moments of pure joy. That pretty much sums up Spurs for me.