A History Thread

[CosmicHotspur]

I thought it would be fun to start a thread on different aspects of the history of Spurs.

If you have any old documents, photos, newspaper articles, etc you can post them here.

This is my first contribution and I will post many more as time goes by (especially when I get my new scanner up and running as I have some quite old pics and articles).

I found this one on-line and thought it was interesting reading. It was printed in the Tottenham Herald in 1921.

http://www.spurshistory.com/pages/8.htm

[PT]

If this kicks off as I think it may Cosmic, especially when the likes of The Chosen One et al start contributing, I'll make this a sticky. A very worthwhile thread and will be an eye opener for some of our younger members who have been brought up on little or no success.

[CosmicHotspur]

While waiting for responses, I'm posting a short film of what was undoubtedly Terry Dyson's finest game as part of the first British team to win a European trophy - the European Cup Winners Cup final against Atletico Madrid at the Feyenoord stadium in 1963.

I knew all the Spurs team on the pitch that day so it brings back some superb memories for me. I was at school and couldn't afford the trip but I had seen all the home games leading up to the victory.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8MxZ-dlrnXs&feature=relate

[TheChosenOne]

I put up a link a few weeks back about the Times Online archive and since then it has lumped a lot of the Spurs cup final match reports together under one link...

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/system/topicRoot/Tottenham_Hotspur/

Nice to read what the press reported at the time in the "Glory Years"

[dcarney75]

Quality stuff chaps!

I'd completely forgotten that Frank Arnesen played in the '84 UEFA final.

[mackay59]

While waiting for responses, I'm posting a short film of what was undoubtedly Terry Dyson's finest game as part of the first British team to win a European trophy - the European Cup Winners Cup final against Atletico Madrid at the Feyenoord stadium in 1963.

I knew all the Spurs team on the pitch that day so it brings back some superb memories for me. I was at school and couldn't afford the trip but I had seen all the home games leading up to the victory.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8MxZ-dlrnXs&feature=relate


I was there...great night.....things I also remember are rotterdam locals spitting on my union jack....getting on the wrong return to airport bus briefly cos the english voices were british serviceman returning to germany after the game.....leaving my bag with passport and air ticket on the inward bus thinking I would be heading back on that bus but not so.....squeezing myself in the mass queue at the airport and therefore avoiding the need of said passport etc to get home !

[CosmicHotspur]

One from my autograph collection - Cliff Jones and John White, best of friends.

http://img397.imageshack.us/img397/5262/cliffandjohnbi6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[chivers!]

Was any of your memorabilia used in the Opus, Cosmic?

I think I remember a photo that you posted showing yourself behind the gates while the cup was being shown to the crowd.

[CosmicHotspur]

Was any of your memorabilia used in the Opus, Cosmic?

I think I remember a photo that you posted showing yourself behind the gates while the cup was being shown to the crowd.

I haven't seen Opus except for a few bits shown on the THFC site, but this is the pic you refer to - there were just a few of us at the gates to welcome the team back and the cup was handed through the bars for us all to touch and hold. A great day.

http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/8251/europeancupwinnerscupdt2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[chivers!]

Awesome. You can't buy memories like that.

[Destroyer]

I haven't seen Opus except for a few bits shown on the THFC site, but this is the pic you refer to - there were just a few of us at the gates to welcome the team back and the cup was handed through the bars for us all to touch and hold. A great day.

http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/8251/europeancupwinnerscupdt2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Super Tottenham !!!

[Mr-T]

This thread is a great idea, I'd like to see some old photo's of the lane if anyone has any - particularly of the shelf - I'll never forgive the club for putting wanky exec boxes there.

[CosmicHotspur]

Looking for a good pic of the old shelf but, in the meantime, the Double team taking a celebratory bath after winning Division 1 in 1961 - to complete the Double the following month by beating Leicester in the FA Cup.

http://prints.paphotos.com/image/Soccer-League-Division-1-Tottenham-Hotspur-v-Sheffield-Wednesday-White-Hart-Lane_688908.jpg

[nipponyid]

Walter Tull the first black player at Spurs and a right gentleman to boot..
http://www.channel4.com/news/articles/sports/political+football+walter+tull/762667?intcmp=news_rhc_tull

http://www.channel4.com/news/media/images/Channel4/news/articles/2007/09/day03/03_waltertull5_1--news-imageB.jpg

Nice idea cosmic!

[dcarney75]

Super Tottenham !!!


I can't stop looking at your bloody signature!

[CosmicHotspur]

The front page of the 1921 Tottenham Herald "Romance of Football".

http://img50.imageshack.us/img50/7263/aaawk1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[CosmicHotspur]

This thread is a great idea, I'd like to see some old photo's of the lane if anyone has any - particularly of the shelf - I'll never forgive the club for putting wanky exec boxes there.

This was a photo taken in 1974. More old pics of the ground soon...



http://www.thequake.com/parklane74.jpg

[wildheart]

Crikey, that's the year I was born.

No sign of my Uncle, (the reason I'm Spurs) in that picture.

How The Lane has changed in my lifetime, you forget these things.

[CosmicHotspur]

I doubt that any of us were around when this photo was taken... however, I did stand up there once, back in 1963. The head groundsman invited a friend and me to go up on the roof near the cockerel and it was fantastic; we could see the Thames, like a silver ribbon in the sun, and the dome of St Pauls right across East London in the distance.

I was fine going up the last little ladder to the roof hatch but I froze when it came time to come down and he had to help me - I still go into a phobic sweat on ladders and stairs or bridges where you can see down through them but it was worth it for that view.


http://img126.imageshack.us/img126/271/oldstandwhlrn7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[spursphil]

Great thread with some fantastic pictures so far! Keep it up!:razz:

http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s170/spursphil/TheParkLane.jpg

[Houdini]

Why on earth have you done this Cosmic......eh?

This means a trip to my attic......and that means I'll have to get my food sent up to me........oh well, i haven't looked through my Spurs memorabilia for quite a while, i just hope the mice ain't been at it all!

[CosmicHotspur]

Why on earth have you done this Cosmic......eh?

This means a trip to my attic......and that means I'll have to get my food sent up to me........oh well, i haven't looked through my Spurs memorabilia for quite a while, i just hope the mice ain't been at it all!

Get up there, brush off the cobwebs and get some good stuff posted! :wink:

[Houdini]

Get up there, brush off the cobwebs and get some good stuff posted! :wink:

Seriously, i think i'm going to enjoy it!:-)

[CosmicHotspur]

Don't blink or you'll miss this very short, rare old piece of footage of the 1901 Cup Final against Sheffield Utd at Crystal Palace. We drew 1-1 and won 3-1 at the replay held at Burnden Park, Bolton.

We were the first non-league club to win the FA Cup.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrwI1AVrSa4&feature=related

[PT]

As promised I'm going to sticky this as it's gaining momentum. Thanks to all who have posted stuff in here so far and please keep going!!

By the way, that 1974 piccy reminds me of the semi final League Cup match away to Newcastle Utd which we lost and I was recording it on a cassette off the radio coverage at the age of twelve, when I was first seriously aware of what suporting my team meant.

[BOLT]

One from my autograph collection - Cliff Jones and John White, best of friends.

http://img397.imageshack.us/img397/5262/cliffandjohnbi6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Shame to think that CJ attended the same 'self-help' sessions as my estranged Brother-in-Law

[CosmicHotspur]

Shame to think that CJ attended the same 'self-help' sessions as my estranged Brother-in-Law

He's well over that problem now and has been for many years thank goodness. (That's a real ITK response btw).

[Dougal]

Quite recent history but some pics I took around 1994...

http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/9934/parklane1lj0.jpg
http://img48.imageshack.us/img48/7901/parklane2ho5.jpg
http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/6302/parklane3mj4.jpg
http://img390.imageshack.us/img390/543/parklane4wh1.jpg
http://img390.imageshack.us/img390/7699/parklane5hv9.jpg

[TheChosenOne]

As promised I'm going to sticky this as it's gaining momentum. Thanks to all who have posted stuff in here so far and please keep going!!

By the way, that 1974 piccy reminds me of the semi final League Cup match away to Newcastle Utd which we lost and I was recording it on a cassette off the radio coverage at the age of twelve, when I was first seriously aware of what suporting my team meant.


I can see one of my mates in the 1974 piccy but I am not saying who or where this time around, that pic was taken where we used to stand in those days.

[TheChosenOne]

Great thread with some fantastic pictures so far! Keep it up!:razz:

http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s170/spursphil/TheParkLane.jpg

I remember the Park Lane being like that because of a throwing incident of some sort.
Eventually the temporary blocked off area became built with a gap behind the goal for a few years till the hoolies calmed down.

[Jack2]

Great stuff!!! Thank you!!!!! :bow:

[CosmicHotspur]

The 1901 final clip was a bit short, but here's the 1921 final - a bit more to see this time (except the quality of the film makes it look like the game was played in a real pea souper). Nevertheless, a nice little slice of our history.

We beat Wolves 1-0 at Stamford Bridge with a second half Jimmy Dimmock goal.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9Vok4VK3U4&feature=related

[DC_Boy]

great stuff

I'll catch up on it at the weekend hopefully - was talking to this pretty young girl at a pub garden on sun - her first Spurs visit - she was american I think - very much an ABC1 upper/middle class 'princess' type - was with some uni friends - had her spurs shirt on - I was thinking this is very different to when I first came to the Lane in 63

'Enjoy' she said when I wished her well for her first game - 'you too' - hope she still pays the occasional visit in 2053 - i'll probably be dead by then - but the spirit I hope lives on - one generation to the next - continent to continent - and eventually planet to planet?

[Mr-T]

Nice one Cosmic, some excellent stuff...

[padgateyids]

This thread is a great insight in to the clubs background. Can anyone share there stories from going to games and grounds years ago for example what was it like to see us win the Cup winners Cup, the double and uefa cup etc.

[TheChosenOne]

As well as the "highs" there are the "lows"
It is all part and parcel of supporting Spurs like I have for 40 odd years

[spursphil]

I love threads like this, and as i have followed spurs for 40 years i do like the old pictures!
Here's one of "The Leader of the Band"

http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s170/spursphil/danny.jpg

[TheChosenOne]

Nice post Spursphil.

I think it is just a sad fact that all the years of going to Spurs myself and my mates never had cameras/camera phones/whatever
to capture the moments. (Working class and all that)

We usually only saw pictures in the press or weddings etc.

[spursphil]

Nice post Spursphil.

I think it is just a sad fact that all the years of going to Spurs myself and my mates never had cameras/camera phones/whatever
to capture the moments. (Working class and all that)

We usually only saw pictures in the press or weddings etc.
I know mate and your right, mind you we never thought much about it then did we!
Some of my fondest memories was crowding round the radio to listen to spurs play away in Europe, my brothers and i going mental when we scored, and my dad having the smile on his face while telling us to keep the noise down.:razz:

[CosmicHotspur]

We never really thought of taking photos in those days as you say. There were photos taken by other people at various times but I never got copies, I'm even on Cliff and Joan Jones' old cine films from the 60s when I was in my teens and they did lend the video to me to watch but of course I gave it back.

The press often took photos when friends and I went to meet the returning coaches at the Lane or went to watch the players training at Cheshunt but they were unpublished pictures and archived somewhere, filed and lost and very likely discarded after some time.

I know I'm right on that centre line, down by the metal fence with the alphabet letters for half time scores in many photos too, but too far away to be seen.

At least I found the one of us at the gate when the European Cup Winners Cup was passed along and that was just by sheer chance.

[CosmicHotspur]

Press photo taken before the Benfica game at the Lane in April 1962 - a game we won but lost on aggregate in the European Cup semi finals.

I remember it well...


http://www.mirrorpix.com/FotoWeb/FWbin/preview.dll/MP_0043069.jpg?D=0A4D78AAE51379D78679DEC23268FA5BE EF438D75E1DB5EAC9DFDFA19DDD72F077B2338E7A8EDDCDEF4 0254118D874DD67EF0764829399008AE6B6471D4B77F9474BB E0E2FAA009EFA444C387752E9DB0F5A45F3571C1C7D3736D69 4354B0C114DC697FD96371DE57FB534BA0049D452BC6180AD3 6354C984C02D6FCB263CF3C132981244AB83CCBECE49185554 C7E022DAD107D66AFE0ED541C3F2778B0FCD625EB4E949FD82 73A

[spursphil]

Press photo taken before the Benfica game at the Lane in April 1962 - a game we won but lost on aggregate in the European Cup semi finals.


I remember it well...


http://www.mirrorpix.com/FotoWeb/FWbin/preview.dll/MP_0043069.jpg?D=0A4D78AAE51379D78679DEC23268FA5BE EF438D75E1DB5EAC9DFDFA19DDD72F077B2338E7A8EDDCDEF4 0254118D874DD67EF0764829399008AE6B6471D4B77F9474BB E0E2FAA009EFA444C387752E9DB0F5A45F3571C1C7D3736D69 4354B0C114DC697FD96371DE57FB534BA0049D452BC6180AD3 6354C984C02D6FCB263CF3C132981244AB83CCBECE49185554 C7E022DAD107D66AFE0ED541C3F2778B0FCD625EB4E949FD82 73A

What a great photo, there is just something about these old black and white photo's that capture the immagination.

[CosmicHotspur]

I think we're making our own OPUS here - only better!

We might be able to publish it as a book one day (obtaining permission to use the copyright photos of course) or just using our own pics. Could raise some nice cash for the site so get posting your own memories, photos, etc. and let's see what happens some time down the line.

[Houdini]

I think we're making our own OPUS here - only better!

We might be able to publish it as a book one day (obtaining permission to use the copyright photos of course) or just using our own pics. Could raise some nice cash for the site so get posting your own memories, photos, etc. and let's see what happens some time down the line.

Now, that is a thought worthy of serious debate and consideration! :up:

[CosmicHotspur]

Now, that is a thought worthy of serious debate and consideration! :up:


So, have you been up in the attic yet Houdini or are those cobwebs in your hair there for another reason?

(And, please, don't fall down the loft ladder!!)

[CosmicHotspur]

The team return with the Cup Winners Cup in 1963. From top of the steps to bottom and left to right (for those not familiar with the players) Jimmy Greaves, Ron Henry, John White, Peter Baker, Maurice Norman, Bobby Smith, Bill Brown and Tony Marchi, holding the trophy aloft!

http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/2936/63returnwithecwcsu1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[PT]

Is anyone here a serious programme horder? If so, what is the earliest programme we can all muster up? i'm afraid I came on to the scene insofar as following spurs around is concerned, back in the late seventies. i've for some second division programes somewhere - Bristol City and Leyton Orient, when Peter Taylor rounded the keeper and fell over in the mud just as he was going to put the ball in the back of the net....

[spursphil]

FA cup final 1921 Stamford Bridge
http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s170/spursphil/facupfinal1921.jpg

The Goalscorer Jimmy Dimmock

http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s170/spursphil/jimmydimmock1921.jpg

Arthur Grimsdell with the cup

http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s170/spursphil/ARTHURGRIMSDEL1921.jpg

The cup winners leave stamford bridge with the cup

http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s170/spursphil/facupwinners1921.jpg

http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s170/spursphil/1921sm.jpg

[CosmicHotspur]

Lovely photos Phil.

I had programmes going back to the early 50s, many of those really early ones given to me by a generous middle-aged chap who stood on the centre line with me and with other "regulars" week in week out through the '60s.

I passed all the programmes on to a nephew but I suspect he sold them when he hit hard times some years back, along with many autographed pics I gave him and my rattle, which was beautifully made by a schoolfriend's brother when we were about 12 years old. I wish I hadn't given them to him as I trusted him to keep them and look after them. I'm so glad I still have some of my autographs but they weren't the best of the collection, unfortunately.

I do have a 14th May 1981 Cup Final replay ticket stub (we beat Man City 3-2 of course). I didn't go but it was given to me by a friend.

[TheChosenOne]

I had hundreds of home and away programmes and old ticket stubs from the late 1960's right up to the 90's

I do not know where they are any more, I think they got left behind in a house in Cheshunt.

[General Levy]

While waiting for responses, I'm posting a short film of what was undoubtedly Terry Dyson's finest game as part of the first British team to win a European trophy - the European Cup Winners Cup final against Atletico Madrid at the Feyenoord stadium in 1963.

I knew all the Spurs team on the pitch that day so it brings back some superb memories for me. I was at school and couldn't afford the trip but I had seen all the home games leading up to the victory.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8MxZ-dlrnXs&feature=relate

Great thread.

I have the whole match in .avi if anyone wants?

[spursphil]

Lovely photos Phil.

I had programmes going back to the early 50s, many of those really early ones given to me by a generous middle-aged chap who stood on the centre line with me and with other "regulars" week in week out through the '60s.

I passed all the programmes on to a nephew but I suspect he sold them when he hit hard times some years back, along with many autographed pics I gave him and my rattle, which was beautifully made by a schoolfriend's brother when we were about 12 years old. I wish I hadn't given them to him as I trusted him to keep them and look after them. I'm so glad I still have some of my autographs but they weren't the best of the collection, unfortunately.

I do have a 14th May 1981 Cup Final replay ticket stub (we beat Man City 3-2 of course). I didn't go but it was given to me by a friend.
Cheers mate!
The 81 final was funny, my two younger brothers went to the Wembley dog meeting the night before, they hid in the stadium over night only to be caught and thrown out in the morning.:razz:
In those days we had the terraces of course and the trick was to ask for the ticket stubs of those who had already gained entry.
Once you got one you would try and get in yourself, there was always at least one turnstyle operator that would let you through.
I gained entry that way along with hundreds of others in 81 and 82!:razz:

[TheChosenOne]

Cheers mate!
The 81 final was funny, my two younger brothers went to the Wembley dog meeting the night before, they hid in the stadium over night only to be caught and thrown out in the morning.:razz:
In those days we had the terraces of course and the trick was to ask for the ticket stubs of those who had already gained entry.
Once you got one you would try and get in yourself, there was always at least one turnstyle operator that would let you through.
I gained entry that way along with hundreds of others in 81 and 82!:razz:

I did that in '81 - paid a tenner to hop over /through the turnstile - as did thousands of Spurs fans that day, I was ok for the Thursday replay 'cos it was for the supporters no the freebies.

In '82 I knew quite a lot of the staff at QPR as my old man did a lot of building work there so tickets were plentiful, crikes even my old Ma and my ex-wife went on the Saturday, but not with me of course.

[CosmicHotspur]

Another page of history - and why "Hotspur" revealed... we were so nearly Northumberland Rovers!


http://www.spurshistory.com/images/p5.jpg

[chivers!]

That History reads like a mixture of 'Gangs Of New York' and 'Ripping Yarns'.

I love the line: "In spite of the fact that the table was rather rickety, many of the chairs had no backs and the ceiling was badly discoloured, the lads conspired to form a football club."

Anything to get out of doing some work around the house, eh?

[CosmicHotspur]

There's loads of stuff on Spurs players in the Footballer's Birthday thread by the way. I know it means trawling through it to get some facts and figures and some of my memories of the older players, but you might find it interesting if you have the time and haven't checked the thread out before.

Today it's Ron Henry's 74th.

[nipponyid]

There is something about that Mr John Ripsher here,
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/2321886/Why-Tottenham-Hotspur-owe-it-all-to-a-pauper.html

A memorial to the man who founded the London football club Tottenham Hotspur is being unveiled in Kent.

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/44134000/jpg/_44134323_spurs_johnripsher203.jpg
Tottenham Hotspur in 1885 before their first competitive match

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/7010079.stm

[CosmicHotspur]

There is something about that Mr John Ripsher here,
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/2321886/Why-Tottenham-Hotspur-owe-it-all-to-a-pauper.html

A memorial to the man who founded the London football club Tottenham Hotspur is being unveiled in Kent.

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/44134000/jpg/_44134323_spurs_johnripsher203.jpg
Tottenham Hotspur in 1885 before their first competitive match

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/7010079.stm


What a great article and I didn't know about Ripsher's life or sad demise before, so thanks.

(Something for those who follow football "religiously", eh!)

[CosmicHotspur]

It would be hard to guess what was going on at White Hart Lane in this photo.

In fact, it was workers using the Lane as a gas mask factory during the First World War and not the N17 branch of the Ku Klux Klan!!

http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/701/gasmaskworkshopatwhlll8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[TheChosenOne]

Wow that is one strange photo !!!

[CosmicHotspur]

Tickets for the 1961 Double Cup Final were like gold dust and I couldn't get one (I did go to the 62 Final though - more of that later).

For those who've never seen it, or anyone who wants to see it again, here are some highlights of the 1961 Final against Leicester City. Glory Glory Days indeed!

A memory of that day was when Danny Blanchflower was asked, during the introductions, by the Duchess of Kent why the Leicester team had their names on their tracksuits and Spurs didn't (it wasn't the norm for names to be on kit in those days) and Danny replied, "We all know each other's names."


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZxUimxuSqwM&feature=related

[CosmicHotspur]

Happy fans with Arthur Grimsdell, Spurs captain, proudly holding the FA Cup in 1921.


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/2b/ArthurGrimsdell.jpg/460px-ArthurGrimsdell.jpg (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/2b/ArthurGrimsdell.jpg)

[Jon Shelfside]

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m31/JohnandVal/spursyouth0001.jpg

Look who the keeper was for Coventry !!!

[Jon Shelfside]

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m31/JohnandVal/SpursvGornik0001.jpg

Is this the only Polish team we have played in Europe?


http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m31/JohnandVal/SpursvGornikprogram0001.jpg

[TheChosenOne]

Thanks for sharing Jon.


I also note in the Cov programme a certain J. Holmes who played for us in the '70's

[CosmicHotspur]

My friend Jill and I got into the car park after the Gornik Zabre game and pushed our programmes through the Gornik team's coach before it left to get some autographs. Their team gesticulated, grinned and blew kisses at us while scribbling on our programmes.

Deciphering the autographs later, there was one we couldn't quite work out. Maunt Rojal. Not someone on the team... was it a reserve player perhaps...?

We creased up when we realised, after puzzling over it for a half hour or so, that it was "Mount Royal" - the West End hotel they were staying at. Naughty, naughty Gorniks!

(No, we didn't take them up on the invitation. We were both only thirteen at the time).

[tippspur59]

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m31/JohnandVal/spursyouth0001.jpg

Look who the keeper was for Coventry !!!yeah ! David Iche wow.:omg:

[mawspurs]

I can't remember where I originally got this bit of info but I found it on my disk drive.

Just some info on the clubs history and crest :

THE HISTORY

The club was formed by a group of cricketers in 1882 as Hotspur FC and the prefix Tottenham was adopted three years later to avoid confusion with a team called London Hotspur.

Tottenham, based in the district of Haringey, was originally the village of a man called Totta.

The name Hotspur was chosen because of the fiery reputation of Shakespeare's Harry Hotspur, a character in his play "Henry IV Part 1". Harry was based on a 14th century ancestor called Sir Henry Percy of the aristocratic Northumberland family who owned large tracts of land in the Tottenham area in the 1880s and after whom the nearby Northumberland Avenue is named. The family were believed to have lived close to the ground in Percy House. Henry is reported to have been killed in battle in Shrewsbury in 1403.

He acquired his surname because of his frequent use of spurs when riding.

THE CREST

Tottenham's ball and cockerel crest is related to Harry Hotspur's riding spurs since fighting cocks were once fitted out with miniature spurs.

The seven trees on the club crest are the Seven Sisters, which were trees that stood in Tottenham at Page Green.

The castle that appears is Bruce Castle, which is off Bruce Grove, a couple of miles from the ground, which now houses the local Council's museum.

The two lions holding the THFC shield are from the Northumberland family crest.

Audere Est Facere. To dare is to do.


Obviously the crest part refers to the old badge.

[CosmicHotspur]

Nice post Mawspurs - brief and informative.

[CosmicHotspur]

We were at home to Birmingham City on the day I was born. Can anyone else find a programme from the day or week they were born?

http://spurscollectables.com/archive/fullimages/1947-12-13.jpg

[Liquidator]

Love the autograph story, Cosmic. You couldn't imagine soccer stars of today behaving like that... (ahem)

[CosmicHotspur]

1935 - Spurs kit washing day.

http://www.ukmagic.co.uk/gallery_1/bigimages/1935_Tottenham_Hotspurs'_washing_day.jpg

[VegasII]

Great stuff. Cheers

[spursphil]

I posted this picture on another thread but it belongs on here!

http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s170/spursphil/cockerelinstalation.jpg

[milkman]

Great photo there phil! I'm guessing thats the East Stand being developed in the photo behind?

[spursphil]

Great photo there phil! I'm guessing thats the East Stand being developed in the photo behind?
It is indeed mate, here's another dated 27th july 1934


http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s170/spursphil/theshelf27thjuly1934.jpg

[spursphil]

This next picture comes from the first match i attended at White hart lane. Spurs v Leeds 12th april 1968 spurs won 2-1 with goals from Greaves and Chivers.
attendance 56,587 note the terrace going right up the back in the corner of the paxton, well it was the same in the corner of the park lane where i stood for this match.

http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s170/spursphil/myfirstmatch1.jpg

[TheChosenOne]

I said before on here but I remember very well that corner of the Paxton, which was a standing area. There was a dividing "fence" between there and the seats - It was about 30" high - If the stewards weren't looking we used to scramble over on the odd occasion.

[CosmicHotspur]

This next picture comes from the first match i attended at White hart lane. Spurs v Leeds 12th april 1968 spurs won 2-1 with goals from Greaves and Chivers.
attendance 56,587 note the terrace going right up the back in the corner of the paxton, well it was the same in the corner of the park lane where i stood for this match.

http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s170/spursphil/myfirstmatch1.jpg

I was in my usual place, right on the centre line.

[stevenqoz]

I'm not sure if this is ok to post but it is just a series of Spurs cards I had for a while.

[CosmicHotspur]

I'm not sure if this is ok to post but it is just a series of Spurs cards I had for a while.

That's really nice and great to see John White there.

[CosmicHotspur]

Ted Ditchburn in one of his grocer's shops after he retired from the game.

http://www.mirrorpix.com/FotoWeb/FWbin/preview.dll/MP_1086794.jpg?D=0A4D78AAE51379D78679DEC23268FA5BE EF438D75E1DB5EAC9DFDFA19DDD72F077B2338E7A8EDDCDEF4 0254118D874DD67EF0764829399008AE6B6471D4B77F930995 A0A8C27BFCE22260B71F71276A10F5A45F3571C1C7D3736D69 4354B0C114DC697FD96371DE571C6552027779F66446122D61 91E0DC4BECA9EB8B0533200132981244AB83CCBECE49185554 C7E022DAD107D66AFE0ED541C3F2778B0FCD625EB4E949FD82 73A

[rez9000]

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m31/JohnandVal/spursyouth0001.jpg

Look who the keeper was for Coventry !!!

Ah, the old 2-3-5 formation!

Steve Perryman and Graeme Souness in our lineup. What year was this?

[TheChosenOne]

Ah, the old 2-3-5 formation!

Steve Perryman and Graeme Souness in our lineup. What year was this?

1969/70 Season.
Souness left THFC in 1971 after 1 first team sub appearance.

[stevenqoz]

Looking at that programme brought back afew memories for me. The third round game against Arsenal was one I went to because my uncle was the referee. Even better than that, after the game I was waiting for him outside the changing rooms and along came Bill Nicolson who spoke to me saying something like "Are you ok smiler?". Magic memory:razz:

[CosmicHotspur]

Another little reminder that it hasn't always been doom and gloom at the Lane.

http://i468.photobucket.com/albums/rr48/General-Levy/danny1.jpg

[StartingPrice]

Walter Tull the first black player at Spurs and a right gentleman to boot..
http://www.channel4.com/news/articles/sports/political+football+walter+tull/762667?intcmp=news_rhc_tull

http://www.channel4.com/news/media/images/Channel4/news/articles/2007/09/day03/03_waltertull5_1--news-imageB.jpg

Nice idea cosmic!


Walter Tull, as in the World War I hero and (?) first black soldier to lead British troops into battle?

Oi didna know dat:clap:

[DC_Boy]

Ah, the old 2-3-5 formation!

Steve Perryman and Graeme Souness in our lineup. What year was this?

I went to that game -

didn't realise perryman played - he'd already played a few first team games by then - I recall seeing his debut in 69 (?) v mackems lost 1-0 - England og?

to think I saw david icke play football!

[Dave-F]

Wow. Magic stuff guys. Makes me feel all warm and cosy like!

[spursphil]

I think this game against Germany marks the opening of the new east stand at White Hart Lane.

http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s170/spursphil/071204sportpicturepast.jpg

Germans entering the ground, note the signs in german.

http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s170/spursphil/Germanfanswhitehartlane1935.jpg

The swaztika flying above white hart lane during the match.

http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s170/spursphil/4thdec1935whitehartlane.jpg

The union flag also flying at half mast as a mark of respect for the passing of a member of the royal family. This match took place on 4th december 1935.

http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s170/spursphil/EnglandGermanywhitehartlane4thdec19.jpg

Fans in the shelf!

http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s170/spursphil/eaststandtottenham1935.jpg

[L.A. Yiddo]

Wow those pics from the England v Germany game are something else, I think I know my Spurs history quite well but I had no idea the swastika was flown over WHL..................

[Mr-T]

Wow those pics from the England v Germany game are something else, I think I know my Spurs history quite well but I had no idea the swastika was flown over WHL..................What with us being 'yids' there's probably quite a few (mainly chelski fans) who'd happily do the same today.

Nice to see we beat the Germans 3-0 though!

[CosmicHotspur]

We've seen the pictures of the current Christmas party. It was all a bit different once...

Christmas with Spurs 1960s style...

Back in the glory glory years, Tottenham club chairman Fred Bearman (second left below) and his fellow directors knew how to throw a party.

And the money they saved by having their Christmas do in the boardroom, rather than one of those flashy West End establishments, was spent on more frivolous things, like comedy hats, suggestively shaped balloons and - hang the expense - paper chains.



http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2008/12/10/article-1093672-02C191CD000005DC-8_468x599.jpg

[DC_Boy]

That pic is absolutely priceless CH :-) (have some rep) - I remember the Xmases of the early 60s so vividly - going to a few works do that invited the kids along etc, as well as many a crazy family do -

brings back a lot of memories but also that pic is just priceless in its own right :-)

[CosmicHotspur]

Continuing the Christmas theme, Jimmy Greaves and Les Allen enjoy a joke at the 1961 Spurs Christmas party.

http://www.mirrorpix.com/FotoWeb/FWbin/preview.dll/MP_0044692.jpg?D=0A4D78AAE51379D78679DEC23268FA5BE EF438D75E1DB5EAC9DFDFA19DDD72F077B2338E7A8EDDCDEF4 0254118D874DD67EF0764829399008AE6B6471D4B77F9B0A50 469934222DA6355D23B6ADF9B460F5A45F3571C1C7D3736D69 4354B0C114DC697FD96371DE57FB534BA0049D4526DC6CCC01 C50B1A7280D4730D3A5E0DF132981244AB83CCBECE49185554 C7E022DAD107D66AFE0ED541C3F2778B0FCD625EB4E949FD82 73A

[southgatespur40]

great thread guys absolutely amazing

[eyes]

Interesting reading about the tour of Germany just prior to the outbreak of war in 1914:
"Many German people had no idea what "playing the game" meant. Once the team were stoned and Joyce had his head cut open by an umbrella."

Can you imagine the uproar if that happened to today's pampered professionals?

[CosmicHotspur]

So many things in the game have changed though, haven't they.

I remember a ref attempting to send Bobby Smith off in one game back in the 60s - only Bobby wouldn't go and the ref was given a good idea(peppered with expletives) of what might happen to him after the game in the dressing room if he persisted with the sending off.

Bobby stayed on the pitch for the full 90 minutes.

That was back when football was a contact game!

[RussellYid]

What a great photo, there is just something about these old black and white photo's that capture the immagination.

Press photo taken before the Benfica game at the Lane in April 1962 - a game we won but lost on aggregate in the European Cup semi finals.

I remember it well...


http://www.mirrorpix.com/FotoWeb/FWbin/preview.dll/MP_0043069.jpg?D=0A4D78AAE51379D78679DEC23268FA5BE EF438D75E1DB5EAC9DFDFA19DDD72F077B2338E7A8EDDCDEF4 0254118D874DD67EF0764829399008AE6B6471D4B77F9474BB E0E2FAA009EFA444C387752E9DB0F5A45F3571C1C7D3736D69 4354B0C114DC697FD96371DE57FB534BA0049D452BC6180AD3 6354C984C02D6FCB263CF3C132981244AB83CCBECE49185554 C7E022DAD107D66AFE0ED541C3F2778B0FCD625EB4E949FD82 73A


Wow... Great photo. Taken from St Francis De Sales church. I had my holy communion and my confirmation in that church... said goodbye to too many friends in the same place... and seen a few married in there! And I'm still a kid!

What an amazing thread. Stunning stuff.

[CosmicHotspur]

That prompted me to post some more in this thread.
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/9/12205890_957141a25b.jpg
This is the handsome cockerel clock in the High Road outside the ground.

[CosmicHotspur]

And 'ere's our 'Arry as a 'ammer! Many moons ago... :grin:

http://www.urmyhero.co.uk/imgviewer/large/43633

[milkman]

Nice pics Comic! :up:

I wish I had some Spurs history. :cry:

[SpurSince57]

I wish I did. I got back from university at the end of my second year to find that my mum had decided my entire collection of programmes and yearbooks (not to mention a stack of Eagles, Wizards, Rovers, Lions and Tigers that would be worth a bomb today) was taking up valuable cupboard space. "Oh, I thought you'd have grown out of those by now, dear, so I gave them away."

The discovery that the old motor-bike that I'd been intending to get back on the road that summer had also mysteriously disappeared was the icing on the cake.

Relations at home, as you may imagine, were a little frosty for some time.

But great pics from Cosmic's collection!

[Houdini]

I wish I did. I got back from university at the end of my second year to find that my mum had decided my entire collection of programmes and yearbooks (not to mention a stack of Eagles, Wizards, Rovers, Lions and Tigers that would be worth a bomb today) was taking up valuable cupboard space. "Oh, I thought you'd have grown out of those by now, dear, so I gave them away."

The discovery that the old motor-bike that I'd been intending to get back on the road that summer had also mysteriously disappeared was the icing on the cake.

Relations at home, as you may imagine, were a little frosty for some time.

But great pics from Cosmic's collection!

That just took the smile off my face, as it happened to me also.
What do mums know eh? They are just comics and programmes, "you must have read them all by now"........:cry:

[milkman]

I have a cupboard in my room where I collect and keep all the tickets/programmes I get.

Got some nice programs from 2000 season, but they will look better when I'm older!

[SpurSince57]

Padlock it. Now.

[CosmicHotspur]

I gave all my programmes (around 250 dating back to the early 50s and through the 60s), my navy and white beribboned rattle and most of my autographed pictures to my nephew, thinking he would treasure them but I'm pretty sure he sold them as when I asked to see them years later in a fit of nostalgia, he said they were "somewhere in the loft" and he wasn't sure he could get to them.

I still have some of my autographed pictures thank goodness though and am so glad I kept them. I'll get around to scanning some of them for this thread in due course.

And no-one can take away my memories!

[CosmicHotspur]

Seeing the "Best Captain" thread reminded me of the time Dave Mackay broke his leg (twice) and still made a comeback which showed what grit and determination, as well as patience, he had.

I visited him both times at St Ann's Hospital in Tottenham and actually saw (and heard) that second leg break when he returned from the first break to play for the reserves with a crowd of around 12,000 to welcome him back. The crack echoed around the ground as did the groans of dismay from all of us there that day.

The photo shows Dave with his daughter, Valerie, outside the hospital.

http://img25.imageshack.us/img25/7562/daveoncrutchesci0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[CosmicHotspur]

Couldn't find a larger picture of this, but they are all Spurs players, past and present and this was produced for charity.

Not easy to identify the players but a bit of fun.


http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/6397/spursalbumvp4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[General Levy]

I wish I did. I got back from university at the end of my second year to find that my mum had decided my entire collection of programmes and yearbooks (not to mention a stack of Eagles, Wizards, Rovers, Lions and Tigers that would be worth a bomb today) was taking up valuable cupboard space. "Oh, I thought you'd have grown out of those by now, dear, so I gave them away."


my mum did that with all my star wars toys - never forgiven her... :snooty:

[CosmicHotspur]

Great pic (in all ways) - try editing and using this to reduce the size:

http://imageshack.us/

[CosmicHotspur]

One in a series I hope to do of unpublished, rare photos.

This one was taken in October 1959 after a clash between Arsenal's Groves and our keeper Ted Ditchburn in the local derby game.

http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/2883/oct1959.jpg (http://img26.imageshack.us/my.php?image=oct1959.jpg)

[CosmicHotspur]

A pretty large pic!!!



I've edited this so perhaps one of the Mods can delete the huge version! Ta.


http://img246.imageshack.us/img246/4135/downsize.jpg (http://img246.imageshack.us/my.php?image=downsize.jpg)

[CosmicHotspur]

Not a very good quality photo, but a piece of Spurs history indeed - the 1921 FA Cup winning side.

http://www.fa-cupfinals.co.uk/images/1921/prog/1921a6.JPG

[CosmicHotspur]

And here's the triumphant 1921 team parading in a charabanc with the FA Cup.

http://img509.imageshack.us/img509/2882/1921sm.jpg (http://img509.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1921sm.jpg)

[CosmicHotspur]

A gallery of some of the players of the past with the seasons they played for Tottenham.


ROBERT BROWN 1919-1924
http://www.sportspages.com/images/products/large/1375.jpg


JOHN CHIPPERFIELD 1919-20
http://www.sportspages.com/images/products/large/2502.jpg


JIMMY DIMMOCK 1918-1931
http://www.sportspages.com/images/products/large/1377.jpg


JOHN SPENCER GEORGE 1904-1906
http://www.sportspages.com/images/products/large/1790.jpg

ALBERT GOODMAN 1919-1920
http://www.sportspages.com/images/products/large/1358.jpg


ALEX LINDSAY 1917-1930
http://www.sportspages.com/images/products/large/1378.jpg

HARRY LOWE - 1914-1917
http://www.sportspages.com/images/products/large/1376.jpg

JOE NICHOLLS - 1926-1936
http://www.sportspages.com/images/products/large/6683.jpg

JOHN PEARSON 1914-1923
http://www.sportspages.com/images/products/large/1812.jpg

JAMES DONALDSON ROSS 1922-1924
http://www.sportspages.com/images/products/large/1814.jpg

[PT]

Seeing those photos reminds me of that Harry Enfield sketch...

Great pics Cosmic and some of our players look like they are ancient compared to the kids who play the modern game.

[Archibald&Crooks]

A few weeks ago I found a few photos from the 70's in an old album so I thought i'd post a few up here as they are mainly Spurs related. You can see how much WHL has changed too.

http://www.spurscommunity.co.uk/forums/picture.php?albumid=4&pictureid=246

A&C shows off his skillz in his new England kit.

http://www.spurscommunity.co.uk/forums/picture.php?albumid=4&pictureid=245

The Clock End, Highbury. I think this was against Spurs but I can't remember. You can see how packed the terraces used to be when standing was allowed.

http://www.spurscommunity.co.uk/forums/picture.php?albumid=4&pictureid=244

England 4 Hungary 1 at Wembley. 1978 I think. I'm on the right :grin:

http://www.spurscommunity.co.uk/forums/picture.php?albumid=4&pictureid=243
http://www.spurscommunity.co.uk/forums/picture.php?albumid=4&pictureid=242
http://www.spurscommunity.co.uk/forums/picture.php?albumid=4&pictureid=241

Spurs v Mansfield Town in the old 2nd Division. These photos were quite dark so i've tried fiddling around a bit to lighten them up.

[milkman]

Nice photos A&C. :up:

[CosmicHotspur]

Great memories there.

[CosmicHotspur]

I found this postcard in a box full of them in Barnet Market many years ago. It's early 60s and I knew who owned some of the cars parked there - mainly Spurs players. One of the cars belonged to Terry Medwin and another to reserve player Barry Aitchison.

It's quite possible that I was around the corner in what is now Bill Nicholson Way talking to players and collecting autographs!

http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/4070/highrdn17.jpg (http://img21.imageshack.us/my.php?image=highrdn17.jpg)

[CosmicHotspur]

http://images.vietnamnet.vn/dataimages/200903/original/images1735285_Bil_nicholson.jpg

A rather nice photo of Billy Nick talking tactics at the old Cheshunt training ground with Frank Saul, Joe Kinnear, Terry Venables and Pat Jennings.

[CosmicHotspur]

A rare picture of Jimmy Greaves with his dad, Jimmy Snr, who was a train operator on the Roding Valley section of the Central Line.

http://www.gravesfa.org/images/JimmyGreaves.jpg

[CosmicHotspur]

I ghosted the article on Mike England. Wish I still had a copy. I also ghosted articles for Tony Book, Joe Kinnear and Jimmy Adamson, among others for this mag.

https://www.specialistauctions.com/makethumb.php?pic=http://www.footybits.co.uk/images/jhfwengland.jpg&w=500&sq=Y

[TheChosenOne]

I remember Mike England signing for Spurs, I was as usual on my 6 week summer holliers in Ireland 1966. The World Cup summer.

Cossie... I never knew until now that his real name was HAROLD MICHAEL England !!!

[cheeseman]

http://resizeimage.org/resizable_images/0008/2156/spurs1885.jpg?1241701057

From "Tottenham Hotspur - The Official Illustrated History 1882-1996" by Phil Soar. The caption says:

The earliest picture of a Spurs team, probably taken before the club's first ever competitive match, a London Cup tie against St Albans on Saturday 17 October 1885. The team was (back row l-r) W.C. Tyrell, F.Lovis, Jack Jull, John Ripsher (President), Hedley Bull (who kept this print), Sam Casey and (front row l-r) T.W. Bumberry, R. Amos, Bobby Buckle, Billy Mason, Billy Harston and Frank Cottrell. The team is wearing its new blue and white strip, after Blackburn Rovers.

[cheeseman]

http://resizeimage.org/resizable_images/0008/2172/spurs_prog.jpg?1241702150


From the same book. The caption reads:

The first programme known to have been issued by the club, for an athletic meeting in 1891. Note that the date of establishment is given as 1880, almost certainly when the cricket club came into being but two years before football was adopted.

[CosmicHotspur]

http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/3769/patjennings.jpg (http://img524.imageshack.us/i/patjennings.jpg/)

Pat is 64 today. This pic of him playing with the kids in the street is really charming.

[TheChosenOne]

NIce one PJ.

Street footie.
Couldn't do that these days, too many parked cars.

[L.A. Yiddo]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v633/frankclause/af333c60.jpg

[TheChosenOne]

Germany thought they would come back in 1940 but the RAF put paid to that.

[Reece]

this is a great thread, i'm only 21 its brilliant to see some old skool photos of the spurs!

[CosmicHotspur]

this is a great thread, i'm only 21 its brilliant to see some old skool photos of the spurs!


Glad you like it.

I started this thread for three reasons:

1. For us oldies who like to mull over the memories of days gone by.

2. For younger SCers like yourself who missed out on some of the glory days and want to learn more of the history.

3. Because I thought it would be a real slice of Spurs history and it's for anyone with memories and photos to post in or just browse through and enjoy.

[Houdini]

Germany thought they would come back in 1940 but the RAF put paid to that.

:rofl: Brilliant post Kev, Brilliant mate!

Glad you like it.

I started this thread for three reasons:

1. For us oldies who like to mull over the memories of days gone by.

2. For younger SCers like yourself who missed out on some of the glory days and want to learn more of the history.

3. Because I thought it would be a real slice of Spurs history and it's for anyone with memories and photos to post in or just browse through and enjoy.

Its one of the very best threads on the site, girl...:clap:, and i would strongly recommend that everyone on here should look in now and again!

[Fordy]

Anyone have 70's, 80's pics? mainly of the shelf?

[TheChosenOne]

Anyone have 70's, 80's pics? mainly of the shelf?

Nobody I knew back then possessed a camera, or indeed the money to buy a film and pay for it to be developed. (Let alone have one in the pocket to get crushed/nicked etc)

Cameras were for weddings and hol snaps.

The only fellah I knew had a camera was called Lol, he was from Walthamstow and became one of the press guys behind the goals at Spurs matches.

[Fordy]

Nobody I knew back then possessed a camera, or indeed the money to buy a film and pay for it to be developed. (Let alone have one in the pocket to get crushed/nicked etc)

Cameras were for weddings and hol snaps.

The only fellah I knew had a camera was called Lol, he was from Walthamstow and became one of the press guys behind the goals at Spurs matches.

I bet Lol was a right laugh.

You not got any Kev?

[CosmicHotspur]

http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/5214/1943programme.jpg (http://img269.imageshack.us/i/1943programme.jpg/)


An interesting find. A bit hard to read the names, but they are all named with their army ranks.

[TheChosenOne]

I bet Lol was a right laugh.

You not got any Kev?

Lol. - Lol Eek

No pics whatsoever, shame that.

I had hundreds of programmes, home and away, don't know where they went to.

[spursphil]

Spurs v Preston 1937, crushing due to another packed house.

http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s170/spursphil/spursvpreston1937.jpg

11th september 1950 Alf

http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s170/spursphil/11thsept1950Alf.jpg

Spurs players training 17th jan 1938

http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s170/spursphil/spursplayerstraingjan1938.jpg

http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s170/spursphil/193817thjan.jpg

[spursphil]

The football class locomotive Tottenham Hotspur

http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s170/spursphil/b17_tottenham.jpg

http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s170/spursphil/RSH_lner_2870_tottenham_hotspur_sma.jpg

[spursphil]

Clean that cockerel lads!

http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s170/spursphil/l_d54e19fd6411b2363476929ed567d97d.jpg

http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s170/spursphil/1930s.jpg

[spursphil]

Boxing at White Hart Lane 17th july 1945 Jack London takes on Bruce Woodcock with the British and Commonwealth titles at stake. A packed house see's Woodcock win by a knockout in the sixth round.

http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s170/spursphil/atWhiteHartLane.jpg

Jack London is watched by his wife and two sons John and Brian, who both became boxers themselves. Brian went on to unsuccessfully fight Floyd Patterson for the World Heavyweight title in 1959 and Muhammad Ali for the same title in 1966.

http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s170/spursphil/fightfansatthelane1945.jpg

http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s170/spursphil/jacklondonsboys1945.jpg

[CosmicHotspur]

Nice pics Phil. The cleaning of the cockerel one is on my main screen so I see it every day.

[SpurSince57]

Great pics, Phil. Just checked out that Preston game on Topspurs. FA Cup 6th round, 71,913. We lost 2-1.

[spursphil]

Match of the day 1964, with a pre match interview with Danny Blanchflower.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xck2iyuj--w

1965 at the lane v United

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJlHQmgp7Sk

West Brom v Spurs from 1964/65 season, interesting looking pitch!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YV7A7DRP9vs

Spurs are the Greatest :-)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8MxZ-dlrnXs

[TheChosenOne]

Thanks for that Phil... got goosebumps on my arms now !

[CosmicHotspur]

I've watched them too and know I was at two of those games. Brought back some memories!

[spursphil]

OK Lads here's a link all us oldies will enjoy :-) In this vid it shows spurs fans queuing for the European Cup semi final v Benfica.

http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=81378

There is loads of old clips of Spurs on this wonderful site, enjoy.

[spurslenny]

i wish i was old :cry:

[CosmicHotspur]

OK Lads here's a link all us oldies will enjoy :-) In this vid it shows spurs fans queuing for the European Cup semi final v Benfica.

http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=81378

There is loads of old clips of Spurs on this wonderful site, enjoy.

I was there too! Made sure I got my ticket. I think I sneaked out to queue overnight for that one, much to my mum's shock - she made me go straight to bed for a few hours to catch up on my sleep when I got back home. :grin:

[CosmicHotspur]

What a fabulous find that Pathe site is, I could spend hours watching the clips - I'll no doubt catch sight of myself somewhere at some stage.

I shall study them carefully later.

http://img187.imageshack.us/img187/2131/highfivepa7.gif (http://img187.imageshack.us/i/highfivepa7.gif/)

[spursphil]

What a fabulous find that Pathe site is, I could spend hours watching the clips - I'll no doubt catch sight of myself somewhere at some stage.

I shall study them carefully later.

http://img187.imageshack.us/img187/2131/highfivepa7.gif (http://img187.imageshack.us/i/highfivepa7.gif/)
Its a brilliant site Cosmic, loads of Spurs clips there, in fact tap anything in the search bar and up comes the clips.:-)

[Ironskull]

delete - mistake

[spursphil]

2nd may 1934. A terraced house being demolished in Paxton road to make way for a new stand at White Hart Lane.
A two teir terrace will be errected that will provide 5,000 seats, and standing for 14,000 below.

http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s170/spursphil/paxtonroadtottenham.jpg

"can i take this cup home Danny"

http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s170/spursphil/Tottenham_289354a.jpg

[CosmicHotspur]

1963, European Cup Winners Cup parade. I had held that cup when the team returned home with it and I was there on the day of this lovely photo too.

Left to right: At the back, the late John White with the late Bill Brown in front of him, Cliff Jones at the back with Ron Henry in front of him, Jimmy Greaves and Terry Dyson.

http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/5176/1963kql.jpg (http://img193.imageshack.us/i/1963kql.jpg/)

[TheChosenOne]

I remember the houses in both the Paxton and the Park Lane Ends.

Folk used to park their bikes in peoples hallways during the match.

[CosmicHotspur]

I just posted this 1935 photo of George Hunt, Arthur Rowe (centre half and later successful manager, who was born today in 1906 and died on 5 November 1993) and W G Hall in training at the Lane in the Footballers' Birthday Thread and thought it well worthy of a place in this thread too as a small slice of our history.

http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/9900/1935georgehuntarthurrow.jpg (http://img515.imageshack.us/i/1935georgehuntarthurrow.jpg/)

[spursphil]

White Hart Lane before the famous Shelf was built, an interesting little clip.

http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=9551

[Green Valley]

White Hart Lane before the famous Shelf was built, an interesting little clip.

http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=9551

amazing

[SpurSince57]

I was there too! Made sure I got my ticket. I think I sneaked out to queue overnight for that one, much to my mum's shock - she made me go straight to bed for a few hours to catch up on my sleep when I got back home. :grin:

My mum put her foot down very firmly over that one. My dad and grand-dad went, but I had to stay at home.

Now, am I imagining that I watched it on the telly? Is my memory muddling it up with the Atletico game?

[TheChosenOne]

White Hart Lane before the famous Shelf was built, an interesting little clip.

http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=9551

Truly wonderful find. "1933" Wow !

[adidave]

I was there too! Made sure I got my ticket. I think I sneaked out to queue overnight for that one, much to my mum's shock - she made me go straight to bed for a few hours to catch up on my sleep when I got back home. :grin:

and me, the atmosphere at that game was amazing,You could almost cut it, and we was robbed!

[CosmicHotspur]

It's too easily forgotten that we won the game, although we lost on aggregate. And yes, we were robbed and I cried all the way home.

[Jack2]

White Hart Lane before the famous Shelf was built, an interesting little clip.

http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=9551

Great! Thanks!! :grin:

[Houdini]

I spent a bit of time on that site, thanks for the link, Spursphil....:grin:

[CosmicHotspur]

I spent a bit of time on that site, thanks for the link, Spursphil....:grin:

I know I'm in some of those shots but too far away to be seen and two of my friends from secondary school (girls) are in one of the photos. It's a fascinating site and I dip into it again and again - it was well worth positive rep.

[CosmicHotspur]

http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/7923/tommorris.jpg (http://img84.imageshack.us/i/tommorris.jpg/)

There are some Tottenham players I can't include in the Footballers' Birthday thread because I can't find their dates of birth recorded anywhere. They are legends in their own right and deserve to be remembered.

Here's the first - there will be many more.

A Spurs legend from yesteryear - not only can I not find a record of his birthday but not even the year he was born. Nevertheless, he is worthy of a place in this thread.

Tom Morris played during the 1890s and 1900s, initially for Gantham Rovers and Gainsborough Trinity before making a name for himself as a half back with Spurs.

He was part of our team in the first game ever played at White Hart Lane on 4 September 1899, a friendly, against Notts County when 5000 spectators turned up to see us win 4-1. In 1901 he was part of our FA Cup winning team which beat Sheffield Utd 3 -1 in the replay at Burnden Park after drawing 2-2 in the first match at Crystal Palace. This was also the first and only time a non-league team won the FA Cup.

Tom Morris made 523 appearances for Spurs including 63 (scoring 3 goals) after the club was elected to the Football League. His playing career lasted 13 years after which he retired but remained a member of the ground staff until his death on 25 April 1942.

[CosmicHotspur]

Bobby Buckle (1869 - 1959) was one of the twelve schoolboys who founded the Hotspur Football Club in 1882. A man of firsts in Spurs history, not only was he one of the founders but he was also elected the first ever captain of the club at its inception, just seven weeks before his 14th birthday, was featured in the club's first known line-up, and is Tottenham's first recorded goalscorer on 20 October 1883.

He served in varying capacities and was involved in many of the landmarks of Tottenham's early history. He served on the committee from 1884, was appointed honorary secretary and treasurer in 1890 and was elected to the first board of directors in 1898.

Just two years later, at the turn of the century in 1900, he resigned from the board after overseeing the adoption of professional status, the formation of the Limited Company and the move to White Hart Lane from Tottenham Marshes.

During his Tottenham career between the years of 1882 and 1895 he has a recorded 25 goals in 53 appearances although it is likely that this number is higher with unrecorded games taken into consideration.

http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/3197/bobbybuckle.jpg (http://img17.imageshack.us/i/bobbybuckle.jpg/)

[TheChosenOne]

Thanks for those Cozzie.

[PT]

His playing career lasted 13 years after which he retired but remained a member of the ground staff until his death on 25 April 1942.Was it of natural causes or in some way cut short by the war?

[CosmicHotspur]

Was it of natural causes or in some way cut short by the war?

Assuming he was born some time late in the 1870s or early 1880s, as he played from the 1890s, probably some kind of illness. He was still on the ground staff when he died, so not to do with the war I should think.

Life expectancy was much shorter then with medical expertise and care not being what it is today.

I have to do a lot of searching and research to get all this early stuff. It's fascinating and time-consuming but frustrating when I can find very little on record. So I'm often left wondering too.

[CosmicHotspur]

Another from days gone by - full back Alexander "Sandy" Tait (1873 - 1949) began his career at local club Glenbuck Athletic in Scotland, where he was born. He later played for Ayr, Royal Albert, Rangers and Motherwell. In 1894 he joined Preston North End and played 76 matches up till 1898.

He then joined Spurs and was a member of our 1901 Cup Final winning side. He later moved on to Leyton before finishing his career at Croydon Common.

http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/3948/tait.jpg (http://img508.imageshack.us/i/tait.jpg/)

[CosmicHotspur]

http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/87/jackjull.jpg (http://img15.imageshack.us/i/jackjull.jpg/)

Jack Jull was regarded as one of the finest footballers of the late Victorian era and usually played at full back. It is recorded that in his earlier days with Spurs, in particular during 1882, he was still at boarding school so was not always available for fixtures.

A man of many firsts, he was one of the founders of the club and made his first appearance against Brownlow Rovers on 6 October, 1883 which we won 6-0 and this was the first Tottenham game to be reported in the local newspaper, the Tottenham & Edmonton Weekly Herald.

Jack played in the club’s first London Association Cup tie which we won 5-2 on 17 October, 1885. The game was against St. Albans, at that time a well-known London-based "Beer House" team.

He was the first Spurs player to receive representative honours when he played for a Middlesex team in 1891, he played in Tottenham’s first League game in 1892 and its first FA Amateur Cup match in 1893. In 1894 he was in the team which contested the 1st Qualifying Round tie of the FA Cup against a West Herts side which was later to become Watford. Spurs won the game 3-2 and progressed by successively beating Wolverton and Clapton Orient (now Leyton Orient). In the 4th Qualifying Round we were knocked out by Luton in a replay. 1894 was also the year Jack scored his last goal for Spurs when he scored the second goal in a 2-2 draw away to Chesham FC on 27 January that year.

He was made Club President in 1895 and continued playing until 1897 by which time he had made 159 appearances for Tottenham (scoring 24 goals). As a measure of the esteem in which he was held, on his retirement as club captain in 1896 he was made an honorary life member of the club. He died in 1920.

[CosmicHotspur]

http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/3454/horacejohnwoodward.jpg (http://img525.imageshack.us/i/horacejohnwoodward.jpg/)

Born in Islington on 16 January 1924, Horace John Woodward joined Tottenham Juniors and signed amateur forms during March, 1939. He featured for the Juniors in the North London Alliance and YOC leagues before being lent to develop at Finchley, progressing through the junior ranks and then featured prominently in the Tottenham immediate post-war side.

Originally a centre forward he had switched to centre half by the time he made the first of his 63 Tottenham League appearances. In 1949 he transferred to Queens Park Rangers for a sizeable fee, spending two years there. Horace, also known as Johnny during his time at Tottenham, later played in the League for Walsall and was then involved at non-league level for many years. His love of the game continued until illness took a hold.

He made his senior debut in a London War League game against Queens Park Rangers on September 27, 1941, playing at centre forward in a 3-1 home win, but had to wait a further five years before reappearing in the Spurs first team.

During the war he worked as a gunner on Merchant Navy vessels and also played in services football. It was during this time that he switched to the position of centre half which he retained for the remainder of his playing career.

Soon after leaving the Services he turned professional with us in May, 1946. Later that year, on 19 September, he made his Football League debut, replacing the unavailable Bill Nicholson for the 4-2 second division victory over Newport County.

The 1947-48 campaign was his most successful in Spurs colours, making 35 second division appearances plus three in the FA Cup. On 14 February 1948 he scored his only senior competitive goal for Tottenham in a 1-1 draw at Doncaster Rovers. By the end of the following season he had taken his tally to 63 Football League games plus four in the FA Cup to add to his single wartime outing. In addition he played 37 league and cup games for Spurs second string, netting one goal.

In 1949 he joined Queens Park Rangers for a £10,500 fee. His two years there yielded 57 league appearances until signing for Tonbridge during the summer of 1951. He also had a stint with Snowdon Colliery Welfare before returning to league action with a five game spell at Walsall from July, 1953.

A brief stay at Stourbridge was followed by a spell as player/manager of Horsham plus managerial stints at Willesden and Kingsbury until 1971. He also turned out regularly in charity matches for the Ex-Spurs XI during the 1960s and managed the Maccabi club. Resident in Willesden, he combined his football with working for Schweppes and then the British Oxygen Company until retiring in 1988.

One of John's cousins was the former Arsenal player Charlie George.

Horace John Woodward died in a Cricklewood nursing home on 3 August 2000 aged 76 following a long illness.

[CosmicHotspur]

http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/8168/bertsproston.jpg (http://img38.imageshack.us/i/bertsproston.jpg/)

Born on 22 June 1915, full back Bert Sproston played for England (11 caps and two wartime caps) and Leeds, Manchester City and Spurs. He came to the Lane in 1938 for a fee of £9,500 but left for Manchester City after just six months, unable to settle in London.

Interestingly, in May 1938 Sproston was selected for the England tour of Europe and the first match was against Germany in Berlin. Hitler wanted to make use of this game as propaganda. While the England players were getting changed an FA official went into their dressing-room and told them that they had to give the raised arm Nazi salute during the playing of the German national anthem.


As Stanley Matthews later recalled, "The dressing room erupted. There was bedlam. All the England players were livid and totally opposed to this, myself included. Everyone was shouting at once. Eddie Hapgood, normally a respectful and devoted captain, wagged his finger at the official and told him what he could do with the Nazi salute, which involved putting it where the sun doesn't shine."

The FA official left only to return some minutes later saying he had a direct order from Sir Neville Henderson, the British Ambassador in Berlin. The players were told that the political situation between Britain and Germany was now so sensitive that it needed "only a spark to set Europe alight". As a result the England team reluctantly agreed to give the Nazi salute.

Bert Sproston died on 27 December 2000.

[spursphil]

Spurs V Man United in 1952 at Yankee Stadium, the result 7-1 to spurs :razz:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-oCjqj9ntuY

[TheChosenOne]

Thanks again Phil.

Loved that American commentator - "The Hotspurs"

[spursphil]

Thanks again Phil.

Loved that American commentator - "The Hotspurs"
cheers mate, it was a very succesful tour for spurs that year and here are some of the results.


In June 1952 we beat Manchester United 5-0 (in Toronto) and 7-1 (in New Yorks Yankee stadium) in the space of 24 hours while touring North America at the end of the season. Len Duquemin scoring four times in the second game after Jack Rowley had given United the lead. The full details of that tour make for interesting reading;

22-May-52 Toronto & District FA 7 - 0
Walters (2), Bennett, Duquemin (2), Harmer (2)

28-May-52 Saskatchewan FA ----- 18 - 1
McClellan (9), Bennett(3), Duquemin (2), Uphill, Adams (3)

31-May-52 British Columbia FA - 9 - 2
Ramsay (pen), Walters (2), Bennett (4), Duquemin (2)

02-Jun-52 Victoria & District - 7 - 0
Walters, Adams, Baily (4), Medley

04-Jun-52 British Columbia FA - 8 - 2
Walters (2), Duquemin, Baily (2), Bennett (3)

07-Jun-52 Alberta FA ---------11 - 0
Wetton, McClellan (2), Baily, Duquemin (2), Harmer (3), Uphill (2)

09-Jun-52 Manitoba FA -------- 5 - 0
Walters, Bennett (3), Duquemin

14-Jun-52 Manchester United --- 5 - 0
Walters, Bennett, Duquemin, Bailey, Medley

15-Jun-52 Manchester United --- 7 - 1
McClellan, Bennett (2), Duquemin (4)

18-Jun-52 Quebec FA ----------- 8 - 0
Wetton, McClellan (3), Bennett (3), Medley


Played 10, Won 10 scored 85 and conceded 6.

[TheChosenOne]

cheers mate, it was a very succesful tour for spurs that year and here are some of the results.


In June 1952 we beat Manchester United 5-0 (in Toronto) and 7-1 (in New Yorks Yankee stadium) in the space of 24 hours while touring North America at the end of the season. Len Duquemin scoring four times in the second game after Jack Rowley had given United the lead. The full details of that tour make for interesting reading;

22-May-52 Toronto & District FA 7 - 0
Walters (2), Bennett, Duquemin (2), Harmer (2)

28-May-52 Saskatchewan FA ----- 18 - 1
McClellan (9), Bennett(3), Duquemin (2), Uphill, Adams (3)

31-May-52 British Columbia FA - 9 - 2
Ramsay (pen), Walters (2), Bennett (4), Duquemin (2)

02-Jun-52 Victoria & District - 7 - 0
Walters, Adams, Baily (4), Medley

04-Jun-52 British Columbia FA - 8 - 2
Walters (2), Duquemin, Baily (2), Bennett (3)

07-Jun-52 Alberta FA ---------11 - 0
Wetton, McClellan (2), Baily, Duquemin (2), Harmer (3), Uphill (2)

09-Jun-52 Manitoba FA -------- 5 - 0
Walters, Bennett (3), Duquemin

14-Jun-52 Manchester United --- 5 - 0
Walters, Bennett, Duquemin, Bailey, Medley

15-Jun-52 Manchester United --- 7 - 1
McClellan, Bennett (2), Duquemin (4)

18-Jun-52 Quebec FA ----------- 8 - 0
Wetton, McClellan (3), Bennett (3), Medley


Played 10, Won 10 scored 85 and conceded 6.


Blimey - them stats ! Must have been great for the players, a brilliant close season tour..

[CosmicHotspur]

10 October 1959 at home to Wolves.

Jayne Mansfield graced the White Hart Lane press box with a visit believe it or not. I wonder if anyone watched the game.

http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/6740/jayne.png (http://img402.imageshack.us/i/jayne.png/)

[spursphil]

10 October 1959 at home to Wolves.

Jayne Mansfield graced the White Hart Lane press box with a visit believe it or not. I wonder if anyone watched the game.

http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/6740/jayne.png (http://img402.imageshack.us/i/jayne.png/)
What a fantastic picture! :bowdown:

[CosmicHotspur]

I don't know if anyone can find a more sensational photo, but it's started me on a theme of celebrity supporters of Spurs.

How about Ray Liotta for the next one.

http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/8343/rayliotta.jpg (http://img156.imageshack.us/i/rayliotta.jpg/)

[CosmicHotspur]

Jude Law with his son and his dad - three generations of Yiddos - at the 2008 Carling Cup Final.

http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/3573/judelawthreegenerations.jpg (http://img263.imageshack.us/i/judelawthreegenerations.jpg/)

[CosmicHotspur]

Mathew Horne (Gavin and Stacey actor) is a lifelong Spurs fan too.

http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/2227/mathewhorne.jpg (http://img407.imageshack.us/i/mathewhorne.jpg/)

[DC_Boy]

the jayne mansfield picture is simply amazing - thanks for that CH

it looks photoshopped it's so bizarre and stunning- but of course it isn't -

incredible stuff - it's almost like she's in colour from america to brighten up 50s britain - and the predominantly(exclusively) male support that's surrounding her

there's a couple of good links in News Now currently

here's one - a programme commemorating 'the first ever floodlight match at Tottenham Hotspur’s White Hart Lane'

Strangely, the front page of the programme doesn't mention this AFAI can see - maybe some our historians can confirm the details

http://pitchinvasion.net/blog/2009/10/29/classic-programmes-3-tottenham-hotspur-vs-racing-club-de-paris/

it's also an early example of european football at the Lane

note the programme price 2d - now I'm not clued up on 1953 prices, but I suspect you could get in for a shilling then - so at one 1/6th of the admission price if true - it makes the £3 (if that's the current cost - I haven't bought programmes for yeas) for our 'matchday magazines' look reasonable

and also there's a very good article on a 1956 spurs book in Top Spurs ATM

[CosmicHotspur]

the jayne mansfield picture is simply amazing - thanks for that CH

it looks photoshopped it's so bizarre and stunning- but of course it isn't -

incredible stuff - it's almost like she's in colour from america to brighten up 50s britain - and the predominantly(exclusively) male support that's surrounding her

there's a couple of good links in News Now currently

here's one - a programme commemorating 'the first ever floodlight match at Tottenham Hotspur’s White Hart Lane'

Strangely, the front page of the programme doesn't mention this AFAI can see - maybe some our historians can confirm the details

http://pitchinvasion.net/blog/2009/10/29/classic-programmes-3-tottenham-hotspur-vs-racing-club-de-paris/

it's also an early example of european football at the Lane

note the programme price 2d - now I'm not clued up on 1953 prices, but I suspect you could get in for a shilling then - so at one 1/6th of the admission price if true - it makes the £3 (if that's the current cost - I haven't bought programmes for yeas) for our 'matchday magazines' look reasonable

and also there's a very good article on a 1956 spurs book in Top Spurs ATM


I can't get that link to load at present but will keep trying as it looks interesting.

On a personal note, I was always invading the pitch at the end of a game, especially European football games at the Lane. We got away with it in those days.

My family was watching the game against Feyenoord in black and white on TV back in the 1962/3 season and saw me running onto the pitch to get the Dutch international winger's autograph - losing my shoe in the mud on my way as Kenneth Wolstenholme did a summary of the game! They teased me about it for some time afterwards.

[CosmicHotspur]

Chas and Dave on the pitch at WHL.

http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/3475/chasdavewm.jpg (http://img97.imageshack.us/i/chasdavewm.jpg/)

[DC_Boy]

I can't get that link to load at present but will keep trying as it looks interesting.

On a personal note, I was always invading the pitch at the end of a game, especially European football games at the Lane. We got away with it in those days.

My family was watching the game against Feyenoord in black and white on TV back in the 1962/3 season and saw me running onto the pitch to get the Dutch international winger's autograph - losing my shoe in the mud on my way as Kenneth Wolstenholme did a summary of the game! They teased me about it for some time afterwards.

you might try the newsnow link CH, it might work better from there

like the feyenoord story - you have so many brilliant stories to tell :-)

I'm pretty sure in the early/mid 60s we used to be able to sit as kids the wrong side of the fence (ie pitchside) in certain games if the crowd got too big

only a lucky few of course

and i think I did once - but it may be memory is playing tricks here

[CosmicHotspur]

This is possibly the earliest photo ever taken of Spurs.

Taken in 1885 on the Tottenham Marshes before a competitive game was ever played.

http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/4186/1885team.jpg (http://img687.imageshack.us/i/1885team.jpg/)

[CosmicHotspur]

I'm introducing home game programmes from today's date in years gone by into this thread as I thought it might be of interest to some of you. It's a shame we won't be able to see the team line-ups though.

More to follow...

http://img692.imageshack.us/img692/7028/prog11december1948.jpg (http://img692.imageshack.us/i/prog11december1948.jpg/)



http://img697.imageshack.us/img697/6370/prog111265.jpg (http://img697.imageshack.us/i/prog111265.jpg/)

[DC_Boy]

Hi cosmic :-)

did you see that the OS is featuring the 'jayne mansfield' game

shame they didn't use her pic as well as bobby smith's

still can't get over that pic - good to get some context with the game - what a performance on the pitch it was apparently too

[CosmicHotspur]

Found this message from Alamo in my box this morning with some absolutely wonderful footage. I haven't checked out every clip yet, but there is a veritable history fest here.

Thanks and rep for you Alamo!

http://www.spurscommunity.co.uk/foru...ad.php?t=55010 (http://www.spurscommunity.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=55010)

[TheChosenOne]

Re The programme for the Chelsea game priced 3d - I had hundreds of these at one time - Dunno where they are now - Left behind in a loft somewhere i suppose.

I wouldn't dream of buying one now at today's prices I' afraid.

[CosmicHotspur]

I had programmes from the early 50s which were given to me by a regular on the centre line where I stood every home game and then I saved all my 60s programmes. Some of them were autographed by visiting players when we played our European home games.

I gave them to one of my nephews and haven't seen them since then. He was broke at one time and I think he sold them to make some money, along with my best autographed photos and my rattle, which was a great pity.

Reminds me that when my friend Jill and I put our Gornik Zabre programmes through the visiting side's coach window in the car park before they left to get it autographed and they handed it back, duly signed, we pondered for some time on one of the signatures and couldn't work out which one it was. Perhaps it was a reserve player we thought. Then the penny dropped.

Maunt Rojal was, in fact, not a footballer but Mount Royal - their hotel in London. The gesticulating and smiling they'd been doing had been an invite for us to visit them there and no doubt have a bit of fun! We were 15 at the time, so really it wasn't an option. But it did give us a fit of the giggles at the time.

[CosmicHotspur]

What a game this was and I was there.

5jYTLfukNUg&feature=related

[DC_Boy]

What a game this was and I was there.

5jYTLfukNUg&feature=related

so was I :-)

[CosmicHotspur]

I was on the centre line, behind the M. Where were you?

[TheChosenOne]

Just a tad too early for me Cozzie.

[DC_Boy]

I was on the centre line, behind the M. Where were you?

hi CH - i was in the park lane i think - i hesitate because i've seen the highlights of that game a fair few times, luckily it was on MOTD and of course you get the shelf side view

so sometimes i think i saw it as the cameras saw it

but i'm pretty sure it was the charlton goal i got a good view of - which i think was at the park lane end

a few of my friends were supporting utd - no segregation then unless voluntary and they were going on about how wor bobbie's goal was better than greavesie's - hilarious - i could never take their knowledge of football seriously after that

[CosmicHotspur]

Another programme from yesteryear. And yes, of course I was there.

A Third Round FA Cup tie that kicked off at 2.45 because Arsenal were also at home saw both sides under-strength. Spurs were without Marchi, Brown, Medwin and Mackay, while the Pensioners missed Houseman and Bonetti.

We took an early lead after three minutes, when Eddie McCreadie fell with Cliff Jones and referee Finney gave a free kick to Tottenham. Peter Baker played it in, Smith swung at the ball but missed and, fortunately, it fell to Terry Dyson to knock it home past 19 year old John Dunn in the Chelsea goal. With twenty minutes gone, Chelsea levelled when Frank Blunstone's run saw him pass two Spurs defenders and his cross was onto the head of Bert Murray, who beat Hollowbread to make it 1-1.

The second half was a scrappier affair, with McCreadie clearing Eddie Clayton's shot off the line and Hollowbread denying Barry Bridges' drive. On 65 minutes, Smith crashed Jones's cross against the underside of the bar, but the ball bounced out and that was the last meaningful effort on goal as the game fizzled out into a draw and a replay was needed to sort out the two teams.

Teams :
Spurs - Hollowbread, Baker, John Smith, Cliff Jones, Eddie Clayton, Bobby Smith, Jimmy Greaves (c), Terry Dyson
Chelsea - Dunn, McCreadie, R. Harris, Upton, Blunstone, Mortimore, D. Brown, Bridges, Harmer, Murray
Crowd : - 49,382

http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/3389/19640104.jpg (http://img148.imageshack.us/i/19640104.jpg/)

[DC_Boy]

[quote=CosmicHotspur;1668289]Another programme from yesteryear. And yes, of course I was there.

quote]

and guess what i was there for that one too

i think i was in the paxton, but couldn't be sure

i know i went with my dad - i don't remeber much of the game but of course was very disappointed with the result and IIRC we lost the replay

[ShelfSide18]

What a game this was and I was there.

5jYTLfukNUg&feature=related

This was my dads first ever game, what a game to have as your first!

I got a dull 1-1 draw at QPR!

[spursphil]

Tottenham's nursery club

The concept of the nursery club, whereby a senior club reaches a formal agreement with a more junior
club that will allow youngsters to develop their skills away from the parent club, has begun to make a
comeback in recent years. In modern parlance these are now termed ‘feeder’ or ‘satellite’ clubs but the
relationship between, say, Manchester United and Royal Antwerp or Arsenal and KSK Beveren is
essentially that of a traditional parent and nursery club. The fact that English clubs now make their
arrangements with clubs abroad is a reflection both of the globalisation of the game and a desire to
circumvent the more strict regulations on
work permits applied here. Nurseries, of
course, were commonplace in the 1930s,
indeed the Weekly Illustrated newspaper of 29
August 1936 noted that, “Most first class
clubs have nurseries for training and
developing those men who have talent.” In
this article I shall focus on the nurseries in
Kent generally and compare the situation at
the two best known of these nurseries:
Northfleet United (Tottenham Hotspur) and
Margate (Arsenal). At least two other full
nursery relationships existed within the
county: Clapton Orient and Ashford (1934-35)
and Bexleyheath & Welling and Charlton Athletic
(from 1935-36), plus numerous ‘informal arrangements’ between the county’s clubs and Football League
sides, and these will occasionally be referred to. I shall consider in turn how and why the nursery
arrangements were established, how they actually operated, how successful they were in developing
talent and the advantages and disadvantages for the clubs involved.

　
The transition from star schoolboy footballer to professional player was not quite so smooth in the interwar
period as it is today. Boys usually left full-time education at 14 in those days and were forbidden
from signing terms until their 17th birthday. There were no apprenticeship schemes, although
occasionally a talented boy might be taken on the groundstaff of one of the bigger clubs, but even then
few were ready to take their place in the competitive world of reserve-team football. In fact most of those
who eventually enjoyed a career in professional football began their working life as an apprentice or
trainee, often in the industrial sectors that dominated working-class employment. After two or three years
of operating in age group or junior football they would be spotted by talent scouts and, if good enough,
signed up by a Football League club. However, there was a long way to go until the youngster was ready
for action in the Central League or Football Combination, and to bridge this gap Tottenham, and other
senior clubs, began to develop the practice of ‘farming out’ youngsters to junior clubs in the local area
during the 1920s. Spurs used a number of clubs in north London including Barnet and Cheshunt of the
Athenian League and Haywards Sports (Spartan League) and also established a formal nursery based in
Ebbw Vale in south Wales. Even when senior clubs began to run third or ‘A’ teams the desire to
accommodate new talent was such that ‘farming out’ continued, but by the early 1930s these
arrangements started to take on a more formal standing.

Tottenham’s relationship with Northfleet appears to have been initiated by the junior club in March 1922
when they attempted to recruit reserve full back Jimmy Ross from White Hart Lane as their manager.
Northfleet offered terms of £8 per week, suggesting that £1 of this might be paid by Spurs in return for
their having first call on any players over a three-year period. The offer was rejected, but in May of that
year a formal agreement was made between the two clubs, unfortunately the Tottenham board minutes
provide no further information on the nature of this deal. However, the Northfleet club were experiencing
financial problems and in February of 1923 the situation reached crisis point. “Northfleet are passing
through one of the worst seasons from a financial standpoint, that has fallen to them so far in their
history,” noted the Gravesend & Dartford Reporter. (3 February 1924) This was something of an
understatement, however, for the club was in grave danger of folding with expenses well adrift of the
income from gate receipts. The reasons given were familiar: high local unemployment and a run of poor
results were keeping the fans away and drastic surgery was needed. Manager Bert Lipsham was sacked,
star player ‘Jerry’ Barnett was sold to Spurs with W Pilcher moving from White Hart Lane to Northfleet.
The club now adopted a policy of playing a team of promising youngsters rather than experienced
professionals, thus reducing their expenses considerably, and this appears to represent the start of a more
formal relationship with Spurs. From the summer of 1923 up to half-a-dozen youngsters were placed at
Northfleet, the first intake including Harry Skitt and Bill Lane. The former Falkirk player Billy Houston
also arrived at the same time, apparently to take on the role of senior professional. Northfleet held an
annual pre-season trial match behind closed doors at White Hart Lane under the watching eye of the
Spurs’ management, but otherwise there was rarely any public recognition of the relationship between the
two clubs. Spurs were still farming out players elsewhere and the evidence suggests that the transition to
full nursery status did not take place until the summer of 1931. It is from this point that Spurs installed
Jimmy Anderson as trainer, from when the two clubs effectively shared staff, and also when the Spurs’
handbook officially acknowledges the existence of the relationship.


In contrast to the gradual development of the relationship between Northfleet and Spurs, that between
Margate and Arsenal began in a hail of publicity as a full-blown nursery arrangement. Arsenal were the
leading club in England at the time, having just completed the second of their hat-trick of Football
League titles. Manager George Allison, who had succeeded the late Herbert Chapman in June 1934,
was a regular visitor to the Margate area, where his daughter attended a local school, and had also
attended the opening of the Corporation medical baths in 1932, it is through the contacts he made in
the area that the deal was struck. The Margate board seem to have been quite open about their motives
- not only was there the attraction of playing future stars in their team, but as the club chairman bluntly
put it, “We are getting a £150 team for a £30 or £40 ‘gate’, which suits Margate.” (Isle of Thanet
Gazette, 28 July 1934) Needless to say, Margate were experiencing some financial difficulties, having
made a net loss of around £300 the previous season. Arsenal’s reasons for entering into the agreement
were explained by chairman Major Sir Samuel Hill-Wood at a celebratory luncheon:
In the past we have suffered very much because we have been unable to take likely boys of eighteen or
nineteen found by our scouts. We could not play them. Perhaps unfortunately our second team is at the
head of the London Combination year after year, and we dare not experiment with the team. It would
only offend players hoping to get their Combination medal. What we wanted was some club willing
and good enough to teach our young players for us. We can and do find lots of promising young boys,
but they must have somewhere to play and be taught. (Isle of Thanet Gazette, 7 July 1934)

Arsenal installed their own manager, Jack Ramsey, and appointed Peter McWilliam as the talent scout
responsible for recruiting suitable players and allocating them to Margate. This was a significant move,
for McWilliam had been the Tottenham manager when the initial deal with Northfleet had been made.
There was a third party to the agreement, Margate Town Council, who owned the club’s Hartsdown
Park ground. The council appear to have viewed their involvement as an extension of their campaign
to promote the town as a seaside resort and agreed to spend around £1,000 improving facilities at the
stadium. Shortly before the start of the 1934-35 season a group of seven youngsters arrived in Margate
to take their places in the team and soon Arsenal were providing the majority of the players in their
line-up. The initial batch of seven comprised three young professionals (Carr, Whitehouse and Tuckett)
and four juniors (Brooks, Brophy, Knott and McCarthy) the oldest of the group was just 21, many were
teenagers. Part of the deal was that the parent club would pay 60 per cent of their wages, leaving
Margate to fund the remaining 40 per cent.


How did the nurseries operate in practise? The former Spurs player Ron Burgess provides a detailed
account of life at Northfleet in his autobiography:
Each Saturday those members of the ground-staff who were registered playing members of the
Northfleet club, would meet at the Tottenham ground to board a coach for London Bridge. There we
caught a train for Northfleet, or wherever we were playing in Kent, for we were members of the Kent
Senior League. ... We were a young side at Northfleet, for the average age of the lads, with the
exception of our skipper and centre-half, Jack Coxford, could not have been more than 19 years. Jack
was the “old head” amongst that bunch of sprightly youth, and what he didn’t know about the game
wasn’t worth knowing! He did his best to impart some of his knowledge and experience to us by his
grand example and influence. ... The football played in the Kent Senior League was far better than
anything I had encountered up to that time. It was hard and the opposition was robust, but it did us no
harm, for it taught us the value of all-out effort for the whole of the ninety minutes of each game.
(Ron Burgess, Football: My Life, London, 1952, pp 27-29)


The Spurs players trained at White Hart Lane during the week under Jimmy Anderson and only
travelled to Kent on match days. This was in contrast to the situation at Margate, where the Arsenal
youngsters lived and trained locally. Both, however operated on similar principles, with a manager
employed by the parent club and an experienced professional or two to guide a team essentially
comprising teenagers. Clapton Orient, who had a nursery arrangement with Ashford Town during the
1934-35 season, similarly appointed their own manager, Tommy Lucas, to run the team.

　
　
Tottenham seem to have done much better in the long term from their nursery arrangement than the
Gunners. Certainly the arrangement was much more stable - Arsenal faced a number of administration
problems in the early days of their relationship with Margate, firstly over their wish to play the
strongest team in the Southern League (they were eventually forced to give precedence to Kent League
fixtures for 1934-35) and secondly when they were eliminated from the FA Cup over player
registration discrepancies. A total of 37 players appeared in the Football League for Spurs after
developing at Northfleet, nine of whom went on to gain full international honours. Margate, which
served as a nursery for only four years, was not so productive, many of the youngsters only managing
just a handful of appearances for the Gunners, although often featuring for other clubs later in their
careers. The Isle of Thanet Gazette of 4 September 1937 listed a total of 20 players who had previously
been associated with the Margate nursery and had moved on. Only one of these, Reg Lewis, proved a
significant figure at Highbury, and although most of the others played in the Football League only one,
Mal Griffiths, went on to appear at international level. Reference to Jeff Harris’s Arsenal Who’s Who
suggests that only 13 players in total progressed from Margate to make a senior appearance for the
Gunners, two of whom, Griffiths and Horace Cumner won full international caps, while a third,
George Marks, appeared for England during the war. It should be noted, however, that Arsenal were
one of the country’s top clubs in the late 1930s, with a side packed full of stars, whereas Spurs were a
Second Division club. Arsenal must have regarded the venture as a success for when the agreement
with Margate fell through at the end of 1937-38 they set up an ‘A’ team which played in the Southern
League during the following season operating from Enfield’s ground.

For the junior clubs involved in these arrangements the rewards seemed obvious: they were gaining a team
full of talented players for an apparent pittance, large crowds, success on the field and a cupboard full of
trophies would follow without a doubt. At a time when many of the semi-professional clubs in the Kent
and Southern Leagues were experiencing money problems, a nursery arrangement seemed to provide an
instant solution. This was only partly true, although both Northfleet and Margate enjoyed unprecedented
success on the field during their nursery periods. Northfleet won the Kent League on five occasions
between 1931 and 1939, the Kent League Cup four times and the Kent Senior Cup once. Margate seemed
almost invincible at times during their four-year spell as Arsenal’s nursery: in 1935-36 they won the
Southern League Central and Eastern Sections, the Kent Senior Cup, Kent Senior Shield and Kent League
Cup, in 1936-37 they won the Southern League Midweek Section, Kent Senior Cup and Kent Senior
Shield, and even in the final season of the arrangement they won the Kent League.
There were some obvious downsides: the senior clubs could recall players at any moment, thus
producing a degree of instability within the nurseries, and the FA eventually banned nursery clubs from
entering the FA Cup, thus removing the possibility of a lucrative run in the competition. The problem
of what might happen if a nursery club was drawn against their parent club had already been faced
when Ashford Town hosted Clapton Orient in the first round in the 1934-35 season, but no decision
was made until 1937. However, these were relatively minor issues.

The attraction of becoming a nursery was such that towards the end of the decade it almost reached a
point when any Kent club facing financial difficulties would actively seek a senior club to provide
salvation. Shortly before Ramsgate folded in the summer of 1936 the Isle of Thanet Gazette (9 May
1936) noted that, “The most common opinion now is that only by setting up as a rival nursery to
Margate can Ramsgate hope to attract sufficient support.” Chelsea and Fulham were both mentioned as
possible partners but nothing materialised and the club folded. The truth was that the economic
recession had a severe effect on Kent football for most of the 1930s, the semi-professional clubs in
particular found that attendances (although in excess of today’s levels) were producing income well
short of that needed to pay wages and other expenses. Clubs unable to find a full nursery partner opted
for ‘informal’ links with Football League clubs, presumably enabling the senior outfit to farm out
players on a regular basis for a fee. Canterbury Waverley had an agreement with Crystal Palace and
Ramsgate with Fulham during the middle of the decade. However, the nursery arrangements needed
careful financial management to enable the junior club to cope with their additional expenses.
Northfleet seem to have managed this, although it may have been because they had the solid backing
of president Joe Lingham.
However, although Margate’s arrangement with Arsenal produced success on the field of play, it was a
disaster financially. Each season the Kent club seemed to produce a larger deficit and after the team
had won almost everything they entered in 1936-37 they were forced to withdraw from the Southern
League for the following season. The situation went from bad to worse, and the club was reported to
be losing around £30 a week on the deal. Arsenal, who claimed the nursery arrangement cost them
around £2,000 a year, refused to renegotiate the terms and by the start of 1938 it was clear the
arrangement would end when the season closed. The Highbury club were clearly happy with the way
their youngsters were developing in Southern League football, for they entered the competition under
their own name in 1938-39, but refused to increase their financial commitment. “We cannot go on
being a Santa Claus,” announced George Allison, and although the Margate directors grumbled on
about the ‘tragedy’ that was about to take place, they had little choice but to close down in the summer
of 1938. When the Isle of Thanet Gazette’s correspondent ‘Full-back’ wrote (23 April 1938), “The
Margate club will never succeed until they stop building castles in the air,” he was probably correct.
That early comment about getting a £150 team for a £30 gate was of course naïve in the extreme and
ultimately the venture failed because the directors had been living a dream - the reality in football has
always been that if clubs cannot match their income to their expenses they will find themselves in
trouble eventually, however many trophies that find their way into the boardroom cabinet.

The outbreak of war in September 1939 effectively brought an end to the nursery club arrangements
and with the development of a more formal national structure for youth football from the late 1940s,
most senior clubs began to run additional teams: ‘A’ teams and even ‘B’ and ‘C’ teams became
widespread. Most nurseries did not recommence, although one famous nursery that did exist in the
1950s was the Wath Wanderers club, which operated as the Yorkshire subsidiary of Wolverhampton
Wanderers. The nurseries themselves had provided a successful developing ground for the Football
League clubs, although the junior partners, as we have seen, rarely gained any long-term advantage.

[CosmicHotspur]

http://www.soccer-history.co.uk/arsenaltottenhamnursery.pdf

Ron Burgess is in the 1936 Northfleet photo in this PDF file. We often used Finchley as a nursery club too to give players experience.

Interesting training concept which has died out.

[nipponyid]

Not sure if this has been posted before a great historical site for cigarette cards, trade cards, silks & stickers.

http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/4189/5cards640x480.jpg (http://img444.imageshack.us/i/5cards640x480.jpg/)


http://www.whitecardlane.me.uk/

[StartingPrice]

http://www.soccer-history.co.uk/arsenaltottenhamnursery.pdf

Ron Burgess is in the 1936 Northfleet photo in this PDF file. We often used Finchley as a nursery club too to give players experience.

Interesting training concept which has died out.

I'm sure I got a whiff somewhere that 'the powers' were toying with the idea of ressurecting that one:shrug:

[CosmicHotspur]

Having reserve sides that played regularly took over from the nursery club system. We had Northfleet and also Finchley.

This 1997 article is quite interesting.

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/since-nursery-or-feeder-clubs-are-prohibited-under-fa-rules-the-practice-has-been-restricted-albeit-informally-to-merseyside-1269408.html

I hadn't realised the system had actually been banned by the FA and things may well have changed in the last 13 years. We no longer have a reserve team, but put players out on loan. I don't like that at all because those players lose their sense of identity and belonging to the club.

I'd like to see nursery clubs re-introduced as well as reserve football at the Lane.

Among others, Ted Ditchburn was a product of Northfleet, joining Spurs from them in 1939 with a career interrupted by the war but which really took off when he returned.

http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/8683/tedditchburn.jpg (http://img156.imageshack.us/i/tedditchburn.jpg/)

[L.A. Yiddo]

http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/6558/whlbackintheday.gif

[L.A. Yiddo]

http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/7324/laneaerialsixties.jpg

[TheChosenOne]

I remember all the houses in the Park Lane foreground , must have been a nice earner there for the locals, lots of people used to park their bikes in hallways and badge and scarf sellers used to stash their stuff there also.

[CosmicHotspur]

I was born and lived just minutes away to the right, in Argyle Road which crossed with Vicarage Road. Just off the map.

Our local roads were packed with cars and the odd coach too on match days and before I went to games, aged around six or seven, we kids used to get money to "look after" the cars. Those were good days for the sweet shop just around the corner in Park Lane, as well as for us!