Stoke v Tottenham - Setanta ratings

[Thmsdonaghy]

Juande Ramos was able to field something like his best defence for the first time this season, with Alan Hutton's return allowing Vedran Corluka to start at centre back alongside Jonathan Woodgate. Ledley King did not feature.

Ahead of them, Darren Bent led the line alone with Roman Pavlyuchenko on the bench, while Aaron Lennon, David Bentley and Luka Modric were asked to supply the bullets.

<table _extended="true" border="0" width="100%"><tbody _extended="true"><tr _extended="true" valign="top"><td _extended="true">Stoke</td><td _extended="true"></td><td _extended="true">Tottenham</td><td _extended="true"></td></tr><tr _extended="true" valign="top"><td _extended="true">Thomas Sorensen (66)</td><td _extended="true">6</td><td _extended="true">Heurelho Gomes</td><td _extended="true">5</td></tr><tr _extended="true" valign="top"><td _extended="true">Andy Griffin</td><td _extended="true">6</td><td _extended="true">Alan Hutton</td><td _extended="true">5.5</td></tr><tr _extended="true" valign="top"><td _extended="true">Abdoulaye Faye</td><td _extended="true">7</td><td _extended="true">Jonathan Woodgate</td><td _extended="true">6</td></tr><tr _extended="true" valign="top"><td _extended="true">Ibrahima Sonko</td><td _extended="true">7.5</td><td _extended="true">Vedran Corluka</td><td _extended="true">6</td></tr><tr _extended="true" valign="top"><td _extended="true">Danny Higginbotham</td><td _extended="true">7</td><td _extended="true">Gareth Bale (OFF 18)</td><td _extended="true">4</td></tr><tr _extended="true" valign="top"><td _extended="true">Tom Soares</td><td _extended="true">8</td><td _extended="true">Aaron Lennon</td><td _extended="true">7.5</td></tr><tr _extended="true" valign="top"><td _extended="true">Seyi Olofinjana</td><td _extended="true">7</td><td _extended="true">Didier Zokora</td><td _extended="true">6</td></tr><tr _extended="true" valign="top"><td _extended="true">Salif Diao</td><td _extended="true">6.5</td><td _extended="true">Jermaine Jenas</td><td _extended="true">6</td></tr><tr _extended="true" valign="top"><td _extended="true">Rory Delap</td><td _extended="true">8.5*</td><td _extended="true">Luka Modric</td><td _extended="true">6</td></tr><tr _extended="true" valign="top"><td _extended="true">Mamady Sidibe</td><td _extended="true">7.5</td><td _extended="true">David Bentley (59)</td><td _extended="true">5</td></tr><tr _extended="true" valign="top"><td _extended="true">Dave Kitson (56)</td><td _extended="true">5.5</td><td _extended="true">Darren Bent</td><td _extended="true">6.5</td></tr><tr _extended="true" valign="top"><td _extended="true">Substitutes</td><td _extended="true"></td><td _extended="true">Substitutes</td><td _extended="true"></td></tr><tr _extended="true" valign="top"><td _extended="true">Steve Simonsen (66)</td><td _extended="true">6</td><td _extended="true">Cesar Sanchez</td><td _extended="true"></td></tr><tr _extended="true" valign="top"><td _extended="true">Glenn Whelan</td><td _extended="true"></td><td _extended="true">Tom Huddlestone</td><td _extended="true"></td></tr><tr _extended="true" valign="top"><td _extended="true">Richard Cresswell</td><td _extended="true"></td><td _extended="true">Fraizer Campbell</td><td _extended="true"></td></tr><tr _extended="true" valign="top"><td _extended="true">Ricardo Fuller (56)</td><td _extended="true">7.5</td><td _extended="true">Michael Dawson (77) (OFF 90)</td><td _extended="true">5</td></tr><tr _extended="true" valign="top"><td _extended="true">Ryan Shawcross (84)</td><td _extended="true">6.5</td><td _extended="true">Jamie O'Hara</td><td _extended="true"></td></tr><tr _extended="true" valign="top"><td _extended="true">Amdy Faye</td><td _extended="true"></td><td _extended="true">Benoit Assou-Ekotto</td><td _extended="true"></td></tr><tr _extended="true" valign="top"><td _extended="true">Michael Tonge</td><td _extended="true"></td><td _extended="true">Roman Pavlyuchenko (59)</td><td _extended="true">5.5</td></tr></tbody></table>

[lis spur]

5.5 for alan hutton and 6 for jenas wise up

[DC_Boy]

they jes don't like Gomes do they

[mawspurs]

Aaaaarrrrrrrggggggggg Please stop posting these crap ratings from Setanta. They don't mean a thing. It wouldn't matter if we won the league they'd still slag us off.

[BringBack_leGin]

i personally thought gomes was heroic, playing through a clear injury for the cause and making some good saves.

Dawson, Woodgate, Bale, Zokora, all dire. Stupid penalties. Out of position. Wanker for going into the challenge like that.

Hutton I thought showed why he's been missed. No problem with him today other than perhaps a rusty cross or two.

Corluka did just fine until Gomes took his head off.

Jenas was poor for the most part, often no releasing when he should or holding the ball for too long, but he played a couple of good passes and made a couple of good tackles. All in all he was poor though.

Modric played very well for the alst 20 minutes of the first half, really running things, and then came out a shadow of himself in the second half.

Lennon was very good in the final 20 minutes of the first half and our only real threat in the second half, having not touched the ball for the first 20 minutes of the match.

Bentley played probably his best game for us but still did more wrong than right.

Like Gomes, Corluka and Hutton, Bent I find no fault with today.

I''m seriously worried about Pavlyuchenko, though he was dobutful admittedly.

Bring on Bolton!

[AndyLov]

Agree with BBLG on Bentley, he looked as good as he has done since he came here.....so we took him off.

Modic is far, far, too lightweight to play in the middle of the park, I know Stoke are a big side but it was like watching an U-16s player out there. Even in the Croatian league Zagreb played him wide left because it was too physical for him - the fucking Croatian league!!

But I guess the perfect one knows best.

[BringBack_leGin]

I don't actually blame Ramos for todays defeat. He played the team I think I pretty much would have played as well. He could not have forseen Bale getting sent off, though it was that incident which spurred us on to finally start playing some football.

I know I'm beginning to sound like a broken record but look at this:

Gk Robinson 1.5m........... Gomes 9m
RB Stalteri Free.............. Hutton 9m
LB Lee 1.5m ................. Bale 5m
CB Dawson 4m............... Woodgate 8m
CB King Free.................. Corluka 9m
RW Lennon 800k............. Bentley 15m
LW Davids Free............... Lennon 800k
CM Jenas 7m.................. Jenas 7m
CM Carrick 3m................ Zokora 8m
Hole Keane 7m................. Modric 16m
CF Mido Loan................. Bent 16m

24.8m............................. 102.8m

The team on the left is largely the team that finished 5th and nearly 4th

The team on the right is the team that started today and is bottom

Now don't get me wrong, I prefer our current goalie, I prefer Bale and Hutton to Lee and Stalteri, Woodgate is definitely an upgrade on Dawson and while King is the best, Corluka is good and King is not able anymore. Lennon I like, and Jenas is still Jenas, he'll look good when the team looks good. But Carrick and Davids for Bently and Zokora is perhaps a trade too much in the attacking sense. We have sacrificed a player who is perfect in possession, never wasting it, and a leader of men who fights to the death, for a man who loses the ball most of the time and another who runs around a lot but with little substance. Modric I have every faith in as a talent but right now the gulf between him and Keane is immense. And while I do not fault Bent, and today I thought he played alright, I must admit that when watching Boro yesterday I couldn't help but notice Mido fighting for the right to be on the pitch even as they got battered.

We need fight in midfield and up front, and badly. I would sign not one, but two midfielders in january who really lead, not necessarily both defensive, but both leaders, and from there on in until we have some staibility as a side only ever play 2 our of Lennon, Jenas, Bently, Modric and Giovani, with the other two on the bench. Who? I know not. Gattuso I notice has not been starting for Milan. Having said that, I have not been impressed with him for a couple of years, but i said the same before we brought in Davids. I don't know. I quite like Jimmy Bullard, he never gives up and fights to the death, even as an attacking midfielder, and I notice Hodgson is not bending over backwards to keep him. Maybe we should even give another chance to Ghaly. Is that so mad? He did lose 4 teeth for us and still motor on till half time. You think any of the current lot would do that? There's even the likes of Scott Parker and Mark Noble being mentioned. Neither is my type of player, both are just what we need.

We need leaders in midfield, because we are in a relegation scrap and looking the favourites to lose by a mile. Modric, Jenas, only one of these two should play, at least for this season. Lennon, Bentley, Giovani, once again only one of these three should play, with the other two on the bench. I'd pick Lennon right now, especially because when it's only one of them the fastest is the best option really.

Then, up front, we need a leader, a battler, a fighter. It's a shame that Liverpool quite like Kuyt, and Tevez quite likes success. Great players though they are, neither Arshavin nor Owen are the players to get us out of this predicament, at least not on their own. And I can't see us going for two forwards. I can't really think who would be right. Heskey wins a lot of balls and does dirty work, but his head does drop, we need someone whose head will never drop. Like Keane I'm afraid to say. Kevin Doyle is quite handy, and like Keane he combines grit and guile.

I would quite happily see us line up for our first game in february like this:

..............Gomes
Hutto Corluka Woodgate Bale
Lennon Parker Gattusso Modric
............Bent Doyle

With a back up of

.................Cesar
Gunter Dawson King Ekotto
Bentley Jenas Zokora Giovani
..........Campbell Pavly

Or something like that

But fans rarely, if ever, get their wish

And even if they do, by then it might be too late.

I'm bloody depressed

[adwanhussein]

excellent post BBLG,i thought Ramos will get us playing like Arsenal -sacrificing the physical side of the game for technical improvement.But week in and week out ,we seem to be less physical and less technical.WE don,t seem to be able to string three passes in a game and this is alarming.Stoke seemed to overpower us physically and they were winning most duels in the air.I have a nostaliga for that fine Spurs team which had grit ,guts and manged always to scrape a victory ,only to be denied a fourth place finish by food poisoning.

[DC_Boy]

excellent post BBLG,i thought Ramos will get us playing like Arsenal -sacrificing the physical side of the game for technical improvement.But week in and week out ,we seem to be less physical and less technical.WE don,t seem to be able to string three passes in a game and this is alarming.Stoke seemed to overpower us physically and they were winning most duels in the air.I have a nostaliga for that fine Spurs team which had grit ,guts and manged always to scrape a victory ,only to be denied a fourth place finish by food poisoning.

hi adwan - good post :-) but important point - it wasn't food poisioning

it was some kind of noro-virus

it's important becuse it wasn't gross negligence or worse on anyone's part - it was just bad luck

[DC_Boy]

ok here's the telegraph stats for all those people who thought JJ deserved a 0 or that modric was way better than him etc

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/foo...-Football.html (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/leagues/premierleague/3216971/Stoke-City-condemn-Tottenham-to-their-worst-start-ever-Football.html)

JJ - 55 passes, 84% accuracy, balls won 3

modric -40 passes, 83% accuracy, balls won 0

zoko - 45 passes, 76% accuracy, balls won 1*

lennon - 21 passes, 67% accuracy, balls won 2

bentley -28 passes, 89% accuracy, balls won 0


obviously such stats are only part of the picture, but they are a welcome antidote to the anti-JJ stuff that gets posted on here on a regular basis

* most of game not played in mid - but posted for comparison anyway
<!-- / message --><!-- edit note -->

[sak11]

im not a hater of any of our players, but i do support our team... something that is sorely missing at the moment... i have been saying for a long time that our downfall would be our midfield axis - and by this i mean jenas and zokora... for all of the running around there is very little sunstance... too many misplaced passes, too much dwindling on the ball. and the number of times this happens is amazing for players considered in the elite of their profession. we got away with it before with our balls lumped/played to either keane or berba who would essentially run the show in the final third - this season we have been found out. yes we may have messed up by not getting in another defender/left wing/forward, but where we really messed up was getting in some real quality in midfield to take the fight to the opposition. now modric may be that man, but at the moment he looks like a kid. granted he needs time and i am more than willing to give him that, but i see his best position further forward rather like fabregas. he needs someone really solid beside him. not someone who will run 50 yds with the ball and then promptly give it straight back to the opposition and put us straight back under pressure as is a regular occurence. not someone who will take the ball and mispass by 10 yds. these may be little things but they are happening in the most important part of the field - the midfield - and that needs serious attention.

[fluentblu]

One thing to mention about Jenas is that he only passes 5 fucking yards!! any wanker can get those percentages when you only look for a safe pass! We arent playing for stats we are now playing for our premiership survival

[Coyboy]

Why does he keep posting those meaningless stats? BBLG, Dawson hardly did much wrong, it was not a sending off either. I don't know how Ramos can come out and blame the penalties and sending offs saying that the game is over by then. Well firstly the second penalty was late on and so if you lose a man and a goal down, the game is over against Mighty Stoke? Didn't we equalise and come back into it? His half time team talk worked well clearly.

I just want him to quit now.

[BringBack_leGin]

Why does he keep posting those meaningless stats? BBLG, Dawson hardly did much wrong, it was not a sending off either. I don't know how Ramos can come out and blame the penalties and sending offs saying that the game is over by then. Well firstly the second penalty was late on and so if you lose a man and a goal down, the game is over against Mighty Stoke? Didn't we equalise and come back into it? His half time team talk worked well clearly.

I just want him to quit now.

Dawson came on and like the rest of the defence lost every ball in the air he went for. Then, the first opportunity he had to actually put in a tackle, he lunged in wildly. Admittedly after seeing replays I think that a sending off was a bit harsh, but honest to god when I saw it live and in real time, before the ref went anywhere near him, I shouted "for fuck sake your off now".

Ramos leaving is all well and good, but who of any quality is going to come to us right now. While I'm losing confidence in him, I can't think that his sacking will solve any problems. In the past two matches I don't actually think he, with the players at his disposal, could have done anything much different.

[BringBack_leGin]

One thing to mention about Jenas is that he only passes 5 fucking yards!! any wanker can get those percentages when you only look for a safe pass! We arent playing for stats we are now playing for our premiership survival

i'm glad you pointed it out because if i'd said it people would accuse me of being a jenas hater, but yes, most of lennon and modric's passes were in the final third in tighter areas, while most of Jenas passes where to Woodgate, Corluka, Hutton and Zokora.

[Coyboy]

Dawson came on and like the rest of the defence lost every ball in the air he went for. Then, the first opportunity he had to actually put in a tackle, he lunged in wildly. Admittedly after seeing replays I think that a sending off was a bit harsh, but honest to god when I saw it live and in real time, before the ref went anywhere near him, I shouted "for fuck sake your off now".

Ramos leaving is all well and good, but who of any quality is going to come to us right now. While I'm losing confidence in him, I can't think that his sacking will solve any problems. In the past two matches I don't actually think he, with the players at his disposal, could have done anything much different.

I think he won a couple of headers and that it was never a sending off, he got the ball. As for who to replace Ramos, who knows? As I said on the game thread, it depends on how much involved Poyet is with the manager. If he is complicit in this downfall, if he is as unable to communicate with and motivate the players, then who knows who could come in? There is the holy trinity of Rikjaard, Sven and Hiddink but who out of them would take it? My instinct, which could be wrong, is that Poyet could take over soon, temporarily with a view to making it permanent. Deja vu??

As for whether Ramos could have done any different against Hull or Stoke, I think he could. It's not just the team he selects and the changes he makes. It's about motivation, communication and apt tactics. There seems to be none. In fact, our best spell yesterday was when Ramos' team was drastically altered because Bale went off. The team seemed to play well in spite of itself.

I can't remember what he did v Hull but the changes yesterday were hardly awe inspiring. What good does Bent do on the wing? He does his work in the 18. Why bring on Pav when he cannot be fit and did not look so? Where was the daring Ramos of last season that would have brought on either Huddlestone or Campbell for Corluka with twenty mins left? Why take off Bentley when he was having one of his better games and can always provide from wide areas or score from distance? Why not take off Jenas or Modric who were not poor but didn't look like firing us back into the game?

If someone can answer those questions in Ramos' defence, then great. I don't want, just by the very messy concept, to change coaches but listening painfully and reading painfully Ramos' comments, I don't see a future. The sooner the better, we are drifting away and downwards.

[JimmyG2]

No reputable manager will come in with the club in its present position.Unemployeds only will apply. Take your pick from the assembled pundits from the media. Allardyce it is then or Kinnear might be available in a couple of months.Tottenham connnection and all that.
Will that improve the solution? Some will say it cant get any worse,but it will only make a temporary and probably not a decisive impact. If big Sam comes in and we avoid relegation,maybe and then what? We sack him because the fans are falling over themselves to bemoan the tactics, the signings, the dreary vision that is Spurs week in and week out.
If Ramos goes then Poyet is the most likely option on a temporary basis. Will this improve things? Maybe and will be proposed by Levy as providing continuity.
I was never a believer in the Ramos 'magic' but could see the limitations of Jol and swallowed most of the Ramos pitch.I don't think that sacking him will achieve anything and that our best course is to stick with it and hope for an improvement.
Appointing a new manager is just as much a gesture of hope over experience in Spurs history.

[Coyboy]

No reputable manager will come in with the club in its present position.Unemployeds only will apply. Take your pick from the assembled pundits from the media. Allardyce it is then or Kinnear might be available in a couple of months.Tottenham connnection and all that.
Will that improve the solution? Some will say it cant get any worse,but it will only make a temporary and probably not a decisive impactI big Sam comes in and we avoid relegation,maybe and then what? We sack him because the fans are falling over themselves to bemoan the tactics, the signings, the dreary vision that is Spurs week in and week out.
If Ramos goes then Poyet is the most likely option on a temporary basis. Will this improve things? Maybe and will be proposed by Levy as providing continuity.
I was never a believer in the Ramos 'magic' but could see the limitations of Jol and swallowed most of the Ramos pitch.I don't think that sacking him will achieve anything and that our best course is to stick with it and hope for an improvement.
Appointing a new manager is just as much a gesture of hope over experience in Spurs history.

But this is our worst start ever. Levy sacked Graham for nothing, Hoddle as stated above and Jol for political reasons. If ever there was a reason to fire a manager, it is now. We cannot get a run together to even stop the rot which we even managed when Jol was a 'dead man'. We lose to the north east teams, draw at Chelsea and lose again. We lose against Villa, win in the UEFA, get a draw against Wigan, win the in the CC and then lose again three times two of which were to two teams that have just come up.

Jol, Hoddle, Graham and hell even Pleat had their failings but none of them had the money spent that Ramos' has and none has started a season like this.

[Coyboy]

I didn't state above but basically Hoddle got fired for a bad start, which did include a win against Leeds, and a bad end to the prior season. What is different now?

[JimmyG2]

I didn't state above but basically Hoddle got fired for a bad start, which did include a win against Leeds, and a bad end to the prior season. What is different now?

My point is that sacking the manager is what we have done so often in the past,as you all point out. I bet most of you in hindsight doubt whether it was the sensible thing to do. As in the case of Martin Jol we don't know what would have happened if he'd stayed on
From Levy's point of view it shifts the blame to someone else,and most fans at the moment blame Levy and Comolli, and delivers a sacrifice to the desperate fans who are so caught up in the humiliation and anguish that they cant see the situation in perspective.
But the next manager has to settle in,easier if its Poyet, but we have to take his credentials on trust and in my view it may not improve things.
I don't know anymore than you do and though we might be in the frying pan now...........

[DC_Boy]

the reason I post these stats is an antidote to people who think JJ does nothing during a game

[Coyboy]

My point is that sacking the manager is what we have done so often in the past,as you all point out. I bet most of you in hindsight doubt whether it was the sensible thing to do. As in the case of Martin Jol we don't know what would have happened if he'd stayed on
From Levy's point of view it shifts the blame to someone else,and most fans at the moment blame Levy and Comolli, and delivers a sacrifice to the desperate fans who are so caught up in the humiliation and anguish that they cant see the situation in perspective.
But the next manager has to settle in,easier if its Poyet, but we have to take his credentials on trust and in my view it may not improve things.
I don't know anymore than you do and though we might be in the frying pan now...........

Well I think the fans are split between Levy, Comolli and Ramos. Personally I think the fair share of the blame lies with Ramos. For me, I was never in favour of Graham, Hoddle or Jol being fired because one was political, the other was rash and the latter was crazy. And I wouldn't have been for Ramos but for our historically dreadful start, the squad we have, the backing he has got and the way the team plays; and my instinct that he does not communicate with or motivate the players.

[Coyboy]

the reason I post these stats is an antidote to people who think JJ does nothing during a game


But on every page, really necessary? Most won't change their minds anyway so you are pissing in the wind. And if he passes the ball backwards fifty times, it hardly means he is playing well. I thought he played ok yesterday but Modric and Lennon, and even Bentley, looked far better. Jenas passed the ball a lot but when it counted he made shocking decisions to release the ball, and those decisions win games not an 84% completion.

[BringBack_leGin]

i would not be averse to a return of hoddle.

[JimmyG2]

i would not be averse to a return of hoddle.

But you'r sacking Ramos for the same reasons we sacked Jol and Hoddle,poor start to the season.We have had too many managers over the years and it causes upheaval and lack of continuity and progress .
The situation is the worst ever but its still only 8 games so that statistic means little.
Stick with Ramos and lets think ahead to the long term.Think of Fergerson and and his early record at Man.U. He was on the point of being sacked.Our position is marginally worse than weve been in the past but its still only 8 games.

[BringBack_leGin]

But you'r sacking Ramos for the same reasons we sacked Jol and Hoddle,poor start to the season.We have had too many managers over the years and it causes upheaval and lack of continuity and progress .
The situation is the worst ever but its still only 8 games so that statistic means little.
Stick with Ramos and lets think ahead to the long term.Think of Fergerson and and his early record at Man.U. He was on the point of being sacked.Our position is marginally worse than weve been in the past but its still only 8 games.

Oh, I'm not sacking Ramos, i don't want him out. But I'm accepting the very real possibility that he will be out at some point. And I am also accepting the inevitable, that we will go down. So I want a manager I can identify with, someone who I can adore no matter what (cannot be said of the players). Hoddle fits that billing. If we go down, I want it to be with one of our own.

[Pat Rice Spurs fan]

i would not be averse to a return of hoddle.

Playing along side Graham Roberts.
Now that would be a balanced centre midfield.

As you said earlier, right now we need two men-of-fire in the middle of the field. While I'm not sure bringing in two foreign players would be right, as they'd probably need more time to settle, I'd love to see Gattuso & Palombo in there together. The fact that they're both Italian & have played (or at least trained) together nationally should give them some understanding at least.
Pay them what they want 'til the end of the season (in bonuses, followed by a more sensible contract after) and even guarantee them release clauses should it all go wrong - but I suppose that's going to be the case with whoever we persuade to come in January.

[TheDutchMaster]

Can anyone shed some light on why Dos Santos has hardly had a kick this season?

[DC_Boy]

Can anyone shed some light on why Dos Santos has hardly had a kick this season?

he played twice for mexico last week - once in jamaica - once in Canada so as I predicted he wasn't ready for the stoke game

lots of people put him in their teams - I didn't understand why and kept pointing out about the jet lag - but it's all about opinions etc

apart from the jet lag he's another 'lightweight'

again pre-season I kept seeing first XIs featuring modric lennon and gds and i kept saying that's one lightweight too many - which is still the case

to me except under exceptional circumstances you can only start 2 of those 3 in the prem

[JimmyG2]

Oh, I'm not sacking Ramos, i don't want him out. But I'm accepting the very real possibility that he will be out at some point. And I am also accepting the inevitable, that we will go down. So I want a manager I can identify with, someone who I can adore no matter what (cannot be said of the players). Hoddle fits that billing. If we go down, I want it to be with one of our own.

Got it.Sorry. I'm not at that point yet but I am willing to go down with Ramos if thats what it comes to .
You may be right in your view that he wont last but if we change surely it would be for someone who has a better chance of keeping us up.Who that might be, who would come to us I'm sure I don't know.
I did see a headline linking us with Mourinho. I think that the closest your going to get is Kinnear but not till after Xmas.

[TheDutchMaster]

he played twice for mexico last week - once in jamaica - once in Canada so as I predicted he wasn't ready for the stoke game

lots of people put him in their teams - I didn't understand why and kept pointing out about the jet lag - but it's all about opinions etc

apart from the jet lag he's another 'lightweight'

again pre-season I kept seeing first XIs featuring modric lennon and gds and i kept saying that's one lightweight too many - which is still the case

to me except under exceptional circumstances you can only start 2 of those 3 in the prem

As I said hes hardly had a kick all season, forget Mexico!

Lots of people put him in there teams.. Yes! thats because he should be starting!

All this talk about lightweight midfield.. I agree to a certain level, me and a few others have been saying that even when Jol was in charge. I believe our midfield is no more lightweight than Scums! Its up to our players to pull there weight and Ramos to position them correctley!

We need to start doing the basics!

[fluentblu]

not a problem, its gets on my nervous when the plainly obvious isnt pointed out. I dont care if im called a jenas hater mainly beacuse of the fact that i am!!! He is behond useless, all he does in run about hes like a headless chicken, will someone please tell me how many shots he's had this season, i bet you can count them on one hand.

We need players with heart and fight, i heard Graham Roberts on talk sport today saying hes not a leader and that the players need to be throwing themselves in front of the ball for the team!

Take a look at the midfield, Bentley, lennon, jenas, modric, zokora, please ive never seen such a bunch of gutless players in all my life. We need steel and determination, they thought stoke was hard Bolton are gonna kick us all over the place.

[DC_Boy]

As I said hes hardly had a kick all season, forget Mexico!

Lots of people put him in there teams.. Yes! thats because he should be starting!

All this talk about lightweight midfield.. I agree to a certain level, me and a few others have been saying that even when Jol was in charge. I believe our midfield is no more lightweight than Scums! Its up to our players to pull there weight and Ramos to position them correctley!

We need to start doing the basics!

well we can't forget Mexico cos we've had two international breaks already

it's not at all cleaar he should be starting - my point was though was about people putting him modric and lennon in the same team - as they are too lightweight

[Coyboy]

This Modric lightweight idea is a bit of a cliche really. People see his size, see that he has not been performing well enough and think we should by Mr. Muscle. Modric has struggled because he is new to this country. Modric has struggled because Spurs has struggled. Modric has struggled because when he has the ball there is a dearth of movement in front of him and he is not acquainted well enough with his team mates to pick out a pass before he is tackled.

Didn't Arsenal have a midfield quite often of Flamini, Fabregas, Hleb and Rosicky? We do need more leadership and enforcement in the midfield but not at the expense of our most skillful players which are GDS, Lennon and Modric. If they are too lightweight (like anyone here would know, do you train with them) then they shouldn't have been signed. My guess is that if everyone here percieves at first glance that they are 'lightweight' so would Comolli, his scouts and Ramos.

Modric survived and had experience in the Bosnian league which, from what I hear, is brutal. Dos Santos made his way into the Barcelona side. If we are going to play four in midfield, I don't see why they all cannot play together. Our problems really are not being thrown off the ball, our problems are creativity, passing, width and goals. That is what these players bring if in a balanced side. I agree we need someone to support these players but it is simplistic and ignorant to write any of them off for being 'lightweight'.

[JimmyG2]

not a problem, its gets on my nervous when the plainly obvious isnt pointed out. I dont care if im called a jenas hater mainly beacuse of the fact that i am!!! He is behond useless, all he does in run about hes like a headless chicken, will someone please tell me how many shots he's had this season, i bet you can count them on one hand.

We need players with heart and fight, i heard Graham Roberts on talk sport today saying hes not a leader and that the players need to be throwing themselves in front of the ball for the team!

Take a look at the midfield, Bentley, lennon, jenas, modric, zokora, please ive never seen such a bunch of gutless players in all my life. We need steel and determination, they thought stoke was hard Bolton are gonna kick us all over the place.

I don't agree As soon as a player with heart comes on he lasts ten minutes and gets sent off for a wild challenge. Dawson is always throwing himself at the ball usually because he's out of position. Play them off the pitch not kick them.

[fozzi44]

jenas is far too poor in my opinion. He has had his chance but his is not good enough. sell him and get someone else in. i mean that.

[DC_Boy]

jenas is far too poor in my opinion. He has had his chance but his is not good enough. sell him and get someone else in. i mean that.

well he's still better than anyone else we've got - wouldn't it be better to sell the inferior players before we started selling our better ones?


though TBH I wish we would sell JJ so he could go somewhere he'd be appreciated -

at least if we got relegated, which such an action would probably increase the likelihood of, (tho maybe the better support we'd get might offset the playing loss) I could go to the Lane and not hear people slagging him off

[west indie]

dc boy we have no world beaters currently in central midfield mate so what do you mean by playing loss?

[fluentblu]

you miss the point!! im not talking about kicking people im talking about putting a dam tackle in, we have too many lightweight players who are scared to get their kit dirty.

you say play them off the park and not kick them, what do you think the teams who have beaten us have been told, dont ty to match them on the floor, get in their face and pressure them! stoke stood off us first half and we battered them, second hald pullis told them to get tight and be physical and what do you know we bottled it!!!!!