Woodgate admits Spurs drop fears

[Geez]

Source: BBC

Despondent Tottenham defender Jonathan Woodgate has compared his side's plight to that of his former club Leeds, who dropped out of the top flight in 2004.

Woodgate felt Thursday's error-prone Uefa Cup loss by Udinese encapsulated Spurs' woeful start to the season.

The 2-0 defeat left him admittting the club felt "a bit rudderless".

Woodgate told BBC Sport: "People say we are too good to go down but we aren't. I've seen it happen at Leeds and they had a better team than we do here." <!-- E SF -->

He added: "One million per cent we are in a relegation battle at the moment."

The Italian side won after a blunder by Spurs goalkeeper Heurelho Gomes saw them concede their third penalty in two matches, while the red card Jamie O'Hara was shown in the second half meant he became the third Tottenham player sent off in the same period.

Asked if he could take any positives from the game, Woodgate said: "No, none at all.

"What went wrong was the same as has been happening in every single game we have played in this season - a lack of concentration. We have got to start learning quickly."

The defeat was a fourth in five games for Spurs and, with Bolton their next opponents in the Premier League on Sunday, Woodgate said Juande Ramos's side must end that dismal run quickly.

"A goal goes in and you think 'here we go again'," the England defender added.

"When you have a losing mentality like we've got at the moment you have got to get really stuck in and start winning games or you just get used to losing and losing and losing."

Woodgate left Leeds for Newcastle before they dropped out of the Premier League but he has not forgotten the fate of his former team-mates.

Administration and relegation to League One followed for the Elland Road club and the 28-year-old is anxious for Spurs to avoid their fate.

"We have really got to roll our sleeves up here and start grafting because, I am telling you now, it is going to be hard," he said.

"We are bottom of the Premier League with two points and it doesn't really get much worse than that.

"Without a doubt I will take responsibility - I have got to stand up like everyone else. It is the players who shoulder the blame because we are not pulling our weight on the pitch.

"If we are not producing the goods and getting the wins then pressure is going to be put on the manager, the chairman and Damien Comolli (Spurs' sporting director).

"At the moment we are a bit rudderless but we need to start playing like we have been saying we have to since the start of the season.

"The way we have been playing, we deserve to be down at the bottom of the table - we deserve to be where we are, end of story."

Ramos is under increasing pressure at White Hart Lane after the worst start to a season in the club's history.

He revealed his frustration after they were beaten in Italy, saying: "I'm very angry because I don't like to lose. We lost this match in this competition and now we have to win matches to qualify for the next stage."

But the Spaniard played down David Bentley's exclusion from his 18-man match-day squad, hours after the England winger spoke out about Tottenham's disastrous form.

Bentley was in Italy but did not even make it on to the bench.

"I chose these 18 players out of the 20 in the squad," Ramos explained. "I don't know what happened before the match.

"His (Bentley's) reaction was normal, the same as the other players who are not playing."

Now Ramos must lift his side, who are four points adrift at the bottom of the table, as they return to domestic action in Sunday's home game against Wanderers.

"The situation is not very comfortable," the former Sevilla boss added. "At this moment (morale) in the dressing room is not in a normal situation but they know it's possible to win in football and it's possible to lose."

What really worries me is that I can't remember the last time that the team started a second half better than they played in the first half - so much for half-time rants by Ramos and Poyet

Also, the Bentley situation is clearly political - who made the decision not to put him on the bench?

And if Woody is injured, who will start in the centre on Sunday?

Too many questions and so few answers
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[millsey]

i cannot believe its come to this.i dont see any way out.we just wont score enough goals.we havent scored from our midfield in years and relied on berba and keane.im so worries.even though ramos is a quality manager,the conferdance as gone and u only get that back by changeing the manager these days.i want roy keane in.he will fight till the end.

[vietnam1973]

its a total mess, god knows what will happen

[Thmsdonaghy]

Please make this man our Captain NOW!

[bill]

RUDDERLESS!!!!!!!


says it all

[scottadams40]

Agreed with every word and tone of it he said, lets make Bolton our turning point and use that as a rally cry. COYS

[theShiznit]

This bloke is one of the reasons we are where we are, he has been utter dog shit.

Totally rash in the tackle, devoid of all ideas, he looks like Dawson at his worst. he is not even a quarter of the player that King Was (is?)

Someone with his experience in world football, should be leading by example, but instead he is hiding on the pitch, and doing his fear spreading talking afterwards.

cowards should not be captains, Id rather make Hutton captain

[scottadams40]

you know nothing about football, a centre-half with no constant partner and no support from a midfield void of a leader. And to top it off, an attack which consists of one man, he's last on the list of people to blame.

[wolff]

This bloke is one of the reasons we are where we are, he has been utter dog shit.

Totally rash in the tackle, devoid of all ideas, he looks like Dawson at his worst. he is not even a quarter of the player that King Was (is?)

Someone with his experience in world football, should be leading by example, but instead he is hiding on the pitch, and doing his fear spreading talking afterwards.

cowards should not be captains, Id rather make Hutton captain
Spot on !! What can we say??? We need drastic change!!!!!

[eddiebailey]

Bollocks. I can think of a lot of reasons why we are where we are, but Woody is not one of them.

[theShiznit]

Yeah your right, he has not given away numerous free kicks in stupid positions, when he could not win the ball, or penalties from rash tackles, or jumped over the back of men again when he could not win the ball, or twice in succession kicked the ball out of a keepers hands practically booking himself...

It was all just a wonderful dream :roll:

[Scoot]

Give Ghally a squad number and play him, ok he threw his shirt down and disrespected the club but at least he wanted to play and was gutted he was subbed. We need people with passion, wanting to play and get stuck in, not for the love of the club, but people who just want to play and work hard. How many players do we have like that at the moment!! How we miss the likes of Tanio and Malbranque, who couldn't take us any further! ... but without them we're fcuked at the bottom of the league.

[rajalu]

I cant see us surviving, the signs are just there. How can we not go down? Can anybody assure if we go down will we come back? All this bcoz of some plain stupid management error. We should stop blaming anyone here, coz all of them had a part in it. I can see next season we'll have a new manager + players and struggling to make it up again.:bang:

[AdelaideSpur]

This is exactly why he should be our captain! none of this "it will get better" Its time to take ownership of the shit we are playing and change it. I can imagine only him, Hutton and O'hara having the balls to shake up a few egos and slap some granny out of the rest of our mediocre performing squad. Our team has to start thinking its them against the world and to start fighting for results, close ranks and get a bit of bastard mentality around the squad.
I for one have had quite enough of, "it will come good soon" and "We are one win away from a good run"
He is our number 1 player on and off the field.
COME ON WOODY!
COME ON YOU SPURS!

[noiseboy55]

This man should be Captain - this is the most sense any member of the squad has talked to the press all season. King can only play once every 4 years, and Jenas looks like a boy lost half the time. Woodgate can give them all a kick up the ass.

[LewishamSpur]

Making Woody captain, is probably too little too late. Manager change, although very regretable, is the only course of action. Even if we only benefit from that new-manager-bounce effect.

[Ryan]

The team is lacking in confidence too much for Ramos to be able to turn it around therefore a change is definitely needed - the only question is who the hell is gonna want to take this challenge on (except Joe Kinnear).

Getting rid of Comolli now does nothing to help the team - but i still think it needs to be done.

[mackay78]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/7687820.stm audio of full interview. Refreshing/reassuring to hear a bit of honesty from our players, rather than the corporate spin that gets pasted on our official site. Just hope he doesn't get any flack from the management/club for this. And yes, make him the captain. King has become a travelling side show.

[Coyboy]

I don't know what happened to Woodgate after the infamous trial in Leeds but every time I have seen him interviewed since his move to Madrid, he has come across refreshingly candid and intelligent. It is important that he mentions mentality. That is a clear problem. People talked about it last year at the end of Jol's reign, when if there was a mentality problem the board created it, but now it is ever so more pointed.

Ramos cannot be blamed for Gomes' mistake but he must be held responsible for the reaction thereafter. What did he say at half time? Having started the game very brightly, as soon as we gave them their goal our heads dropped and we created virtually nothing until Dos Santos came on. Before thier goal, Lennon and Jenas both looked very good but just faded with the rest of the team. There just seems no motivation at all and of course the players must take responsibilty for self motivation but the manager has half time to talk to the players on how to change things, what to do better, what to keep doing and for both this and the Stoke game, we have come out worse.

It is easy to blame Gomes but these things happened. He lost his balance and then decided rather than lose a probable goal he would risk giving away a penalty. It was a unnecessary and overhit pass from Ekotto. As soon as he hit from that distance and with that power, I thought there was trouble. Gomes made some excellent saves thereafter and is the least of our worries.

As soon as I saw King in the team, I was despondent. As much as I wanted us to win or get a good result last night, it is not as important as the league. That should be obvious. He was excellent as usal, even though he seemed unable to lift spirits. Now with Woodgate injured and Corluka possibly not 100%, who are we going to play there? I can only see Zokora and Gunter, against Bolton that is worrying.

From his comments and decisions, I don't see that Ramos knows how to ameliorate let alone turn around this situation. It kind of speaks volumes that our two biggest signings of the summer were either on the bench last night or not in the 18. That is worrying not because they are bad players but because they could be the wrong players for this team and this stage. I have always said this about Bentley, about Modric I am not sure yet. I think he will do better but it has to be soon.

Having supported Spurs for the best part of twenty years, I have never wanted a coach to leave. This is the first time. I think he is a hindrance not a help to our problem.

[Lucky22]

I have never been so despondent! I've been through the tough times before, but I don't see a way out of this. Last night I thought we played some pretty decent stuff for good periods but we need to more clinical in front of goal.
I thought the defence looked a little better and I think Woody and King were immense in the centre and it was great to see O'Hara back - he shows a bit of heart that lad. For me, that is what is lacking - some passion. At times last night Jenas and a few others gave the ref a bit of stick (and it was deserved cause he was crap) but I don't see them telling anyone else in the side to buck their ideas up. It's all heads down and hope nobody noticed that screw up!
I love Ledley, but he's not the captain that we need at the moment. We need an in-your-face, kick up the arse captain who'll start pulling us up by the scruff of the neck. Someone who would have balled at Gomes last night for messing up and made sure he knew it couldn't happen again. Someone who praises the positives but makes sure that if you get it wrong, you'll pay for it. Problem is, I look at our squad and I don't see one.
Ruderless - you bet we are and, I'm sorry to say it, but we're going down.

[The Original Yiddster]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/7687820.stm audio of full interview. Refreshing/reassuring to hear a bit of honesty from our players, rather than the corporate spin that gets pasted on our official site. Just hope he doesn't get any flack from the management/club for this. And yes, make him the captain. King has become a travelling side show.

as opposed to Jenas who is just a 'no' show

[Lucky22]

Can I add that we also need a manager who'll also show a bit of passion and a bit of leadership - starting with dropping Gomes on Sunday. He was quick to dump Cerny for a mistake in Europe, so let's see him showing some real leadership and making sure the buck stops with the players.

[bigspurs]

I think this is going to be the longest, most humiliating season we could ever endure as Spurs fans. How lucky for us it has to happen in our lifetime!

Stiff upper lip lads. Try to keep your dignity and above all else, don't let it get you down!

[Ryan]

as opposed to Jenas who is just a 'no' show


FFS just quit it with the Jenas digs. As far as i'm concerned Jenas was one of the better players last night. Why dont you give Gomes, O Hara or Bale some shit who actually contributed to our loss in a more direct fashion.

[The Original Yiddster]

I don't know what happened to Woodgate after the infamous trial in Leeds but every time I have seen him interviewed since his move to Madrid, he has come across refreshingly candid and intelligent. It is important that he mentions mentality. That is a clear problem. People talked about it last year at the end of Jol's reign, when if there was a mentality problem the board created it, but now it is ever so more pointed.

Ramos cannot be blamed for Gomes' mistake but he must be held responsible for the reaction thereafter. What did he say at half time? Having started the game very brightly, as soon as we gave them their goal our heads dropped and we created virtually nothing until Dos Santos came on. Before thier goal, Lennon and Jenas both looked very good but just faded with the rest of the team. There just seems no motivation at all and of course the players must take responsibilty for self motivation but the manager has half time to talk to the players on how to change things, what to do better, what to keep doing and for both this and the Stoke game, we have come out worse.

It is easy to blame Gomes but these things happened. He lost his balance and then decided rather than lose a probable goal he would risk giving away a penalty. It was a unnecessary and overhit pass from Ekotto. As soon as he hit from that distance and with that power, I thought there was trouble. Gomes made some excellent saves thereafter and is the least of our worries.

As soon as I saw King in the team, I was despondent. As much as I wanted us to win or get a good result last night, it is not as important as the league. That should be obvious. He was excellent as usal, even though he seemed unable to lift spirits. Now with Woodgate injured and Corluka possibly not 100%, who are we going to play there? I can only see Zokora and Gunter, against Bolton that is worrying.

From his comments and decisions, I don't see that Ramos knows how to ameliorate let alone turn around this situation. It kind of speaks volumes that our two biggest signings of the summer were either on the bench last night or not in the 18. That is worrying not because they are bad players but because they could be the wrong players for this team and this stage. I have always said this about Bentley, about Modric I am not sure yet. I think he will do better but it has to be soon.

Having supported Spurs for the best part of twenty years, I have never wanted a coach to leave. This is the first time. I think he is a hindrance not a help to our problem.

Boo Hoo, Boo Hoo....... I loved Martin and he was sacked now I am going say that his replacement should go therefore vindicating my opinion Jol should never have gone - pathetic

Ramos has no strikers worth a damm..... Jol had Europes best pair. You dont score you dont win matches simple. If Ramos hadnt have been let down by a combination of Levy and Comolli we would be seeing a totally different Spurs.

Blaming BAE for the goal and not Gomes ...... says it all for me about your lack of insight. You think Gomes had a quick think 'is he going to score - h'hmm 6/40 even though the ball was running away from the goal at an angle' - no he just screwed up big time and panicked jumping all over the player.
Gomes is fast becoming a liability Villa, Portsmouth and now last night matching the form of his predecesor.

Lennon and Jenas looked very good.....oh cant even bother..........

[The Original Yiddster]

FFS just quit it with the Jenas digs. As far as i'm concerned Jenas was one of the better players last night. Why dont you give Gomes, O Hara or Bale some shit who actually contributed to our loss in a more direct fashion.

yeah thats right he gave a commanding Captains performance, leading from the front, the fulcrum of everything from the middle of the park inspired the players around him manged to get himself up with and beyond Bent on numerous occasions err twice from a 5 man midfield

now I think about it your right........

As for Gomes yep think he is a liability, Bale was appallingly poor and O'Hara was just brain dead

[Ryan]

yeah thats right he gave a commanding Captains performance, leading from the front, the fulcrum of everything from the middle of the park inspired the players around him manged to get himself up with and beyond Bent on numerous occasions err twice from a 5 man midfield

now I think about it your right........

As for Gomes yep think he is a liability, Bale was appallingly poor and O'Hara was just brain dead


Jesus mate. Just read your other reply above this one. Ramble, ramble, ramble. You really should calm down.

[aramapa]

What worries me most about Woodgate's comments is really that he had to make them at all. It shows an extreme frustration with the way things are right now at WHL, which is, to my mind, that while everyone accepts that there are problems with the team (it's rather obvious, no?) - the central causes of which are subject to debate - there seems to be an almost complete lack of communication and togetherness in the club too. It's as if he wasn't able to voice his concerns within the club, hence this public outburst.

For what it's worth, I think that a great deal of our current strife must be attributed to the transfer nonsense that transpired in the summer - not only did we lose two key players, it completely cocked up the season from the start - and we've been feeling the effects of it ever since. What worries me more is that as the blame for this must surely be laid at the door of those responsible - the board of directors - how do we go about resolving it? Would we be better of without the business focus of Levy? Or perhaps he's learnt from his mistakes! And of course, not to mention the unfortunate case of Martin Jol...I loved him - why did we see fit to get rid of him? The man provided us with two 5th placed finishes! It's like sticking with your wonderful girlfriend, who gives you so much, then dumping her because you think someone better has come along. Brilliant. Commolli appears to be superfluous - what does he do anyway? He certainly doesn't seem able to find us players to help push us on. He should go.

What about Ramos? When I've seen his interviews, I'm struck by his lack of articulation and intelligent comment. My grandmother can say 'yes it's a problem, we must win'. Does he really have nothing else to say? What's more, we shouldn't underestimate the importance of language. I teach English as a foriegn language, and have done so in Spain, and believe me, his ability is very poor - I can barely understand him. Also, my Spanish is pretty good - studied it for years, lived abroad etc. And there's no way I think I could manage 22 people, in Spanish, whatever the context. He might have an astute tactical brain, but I think this is a real issue. Perhaps the players don't even listen to him anymore.

In any case, he's got to go. I, like everyone else, though that we were really on to something after our CC success,and I'm left disappointed yet again. But, I believe that for whatever reason, he won't be able to turn it around. We need a new manager - anyone can see that. There has been some talk on here of Roy Keane - I don't know where it's come from...is it just wishfu thinking? It certainly wold be like a wish come true right now...

[Jonesey]

Abso-fucking-lutely.

Anyone who doesn't believe we should do this should listen to him being interviewed here. At last some honesty from the Spurs camp:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/t/tottenham_hotspur/7687861.stm

[Jonesey]

Mate, sorry to be rude but you are talking shit (aimed at theShiznit above)

[The Original Yiddster]

Jesus mate. Just read your other reply above this one. Ramble, ramble, ramble. You really should calm down.

no ramble and perfectly calm

[alamo]

Ramos has no strikers worth a damm..... Jol had Europes best pair. You dont score you dont win matches simple. If Ramos hadnt have been let down by a combination of Levy and Comolli we would be seeing a totally different Spurs.

Possibly... if not probably. Though the league form has been dire since the turn of the year, not just this season.

[Jonesey]

Jenas is one of the main reasons we are in this mess.

He is too weak to be at the mid-backbone of our team.

Funny how no other clubs have come in to try to buy him in the past three transfer windows ...

[The Original Yiddster]

Possibly... if not probably. Though the league form has been dire since the turn of the year, not just this season.

Yep i agree and not saying Ramos is perfect but last years form after the CC was no surprise to anybody........the players knew it was mission acomplised and switched off, Berbatov finished his season there and then, certain players knew they werent going to be athe club come August.
So I can balance that but then the summer window fiasco has just screwed all the planning Ramos would have put in place for this season

[infamousyiddo]

irrespective of what went on over the summer. Ramos is training the squad and Ramos is picking the team. Something is going wrong on the pitch, players look clueless...out of sorts and have no ideas on the pitch

[JimmyG2]

Modric and Giovani made a difference when they came on last night.Thats because they are quality footballers who have individual skill and an understanding of what a team game is.Rather like Jenas in fact.
The players with heart,Ohara and Dawson dont play with much else,get carried away and get sent off.Some help to a struggling team.
Individual errors in both matches have almost lost the game before its started, Bale,who has been poor for weeks and Gomes who actually saved us on at least three occasions last night. This is not the fault of the manager.
In fact on both occasions the team has responded well and in the last three games have played better.
Last night against a top team with ten men we should have made a draw.Bents failure to bury a header from 6yds was crucial.If it had gone in the mood here would have been better. On such narrow margins are matches won and lost and spirits raised or dashed.

[kelloggs]

What worries me most about Woodgate's comments is really that he had to make them at all. It shows an extreme frustration with the way things are right now at WHL, which is, to my mind, that while everyone accepts that there are problems with the team (it's rather obvious, no?) - the central causes of which are subject to debate - there seems to be an almost complete lack of communication and togetherness in the club too. It's as if he wasn't able to voice his concerns within the club, hence this public outburst.

For what it's worth, I think that a great deal of our current strife must be attributed to the transfer nonsense that transpired in the summer - not only did we lose two key players, it completely cocked up the season from the start - and we've been feeling the effects of it ever since. What worries me more is that as the blame for this must surely be laid at the door of those responsible - the board of directors - how do we go about resolving it? Would we be better of without the business focus of Levy? Or perhaps he's learnt from his mistakes! And of course, not to mention the unfortunate case of Martin Jol...I loved him - why did we see fit to get rid of him? The man provided us with two 5th placed finishes! It's like sticking with your wonderful girlfriend, who gives you so much, then dumping her because you think someone better has come along. Brilliant. Commolli appears to be superfluous - what does he do anyway? He certainly doesn't seem able to find us players to help push us on. He should go.

What about Ramos? When I've seen his interviews, I'm struck by his lack of articulation and intelligent comment. My grandmother can say 'yes it's a problem, we must win'. Does he really have nothing else to say? What's more, we shouldn't underestimate the importance of language. I teach English as a foriegn language, and have done so in Spain, and believe me, his ability is very poor - I can barely understand him. Also, my Spanish is pretty good - studied it for years, lived abroad etc. And there's no way I think I could manage 22 people, in Spanish, whatever the context. He might have an astute tactical brain, but I think this is a real issue. Perhaps the players don't even listen to him anymore.

In any case, he's got to go. I, like everyone else, though that we were really on to something after our CC success,and I'm left disappointed yet again. But, I believe that for whatever reason, he won't be able to turn it around. We need a new manager - anyone can see that. There has been some talk on here of Roy Keane - I don't know where it's come from...is it just wishfu thinking? It certainly wold be like a wish come true right now...

I agree with every word! Woodgate's comments are definately indicating there are real problems in the camp and I think Ramos's lack of relationship with the players, clearly not helped by his appalling english, is preventing him from controling it. He is out of his depth and lost in a foreign country, unable to speak the language and unfamiliar with how we play football over here.

His tactics are horrendous! GDS a left footer on the right, Lennon a right footer on the left???? Bent, who cant hold the ball up, on his own in a 451? JJ picked every game regrdless of his performance?? Never giving Campbell a chance when we all know Bent is not good enough, especially when on his own.

I know the loss of Berbs and Keane was massive, that he has has to play with the cards delt by the board and Commolli. I know we have had some bad luck, and that frustratio is meaning that players are doing rash things and getting sent off. But can you honestly put you put your hand on your heart and say you can see Ramos authoritatively addressing this mess, or do you visualize him meekly peeping over the top of Poyets shoulder to check if the coast is clear? I'm not big on sacking managers and believe in giving them a little time, however time is something we dont have! And unless he can learn english in a week and can overcome his perceived non-existent relationship with the players I think its over for him!

:cry:

[Lucky22]

Correct me if I am wrong, but Ramos did have Keane and Berbatov last season (he came in early enough, and almost had a full season behind him) and we didn't fair much better, so to say that was the secret of Jol's success is just wrong!
Look, I love Jol but we have to start looking forward, although at the moment it is easier to look back at the good ol' days. There is clearly something wrong behind the scenes and, I'm sorry, but the players are the ones to blame. They are not performing on the pitch. That was a decent line-up last night and practically first choice in many people's eyes (apart from maybe one or two small changes).
I though Modric made a bit of a difference last night when he came on, but i think he'd have played better alongside O'Hara. Some people have said Jamie is brain dead, but I thought he had a good game last night. The first booking was a joke and I agree he was silly to go in the way he did so quickly afterwards, but there were three players who had a chance to make a tackle and didn't bother their arse.
He's a lot more productive than Zokora and overall I think he has a poor attitude. I'd throw Jamie in the defensive role and play Modric and Jenas in the middle of the park. Dos Santos was exciting yes, but he doesn't track back and as much as I love a flair player, we need protection at the back.
I still can't believe we are in this position, but let's see who now stands up and is counted!

[fluentblu]

one of the better players!!!! what fucking game were you watching!!! 93 minutes 0 shots on goal!! CLASS just what you need from your captain and attacking midfield player. HE IS SHITE! why does he get so much backing off fans, what because he runs about alot ,big deal so did robbie savage and look how cack he was.

[Coyboy]

Good post aramapa, I too have taught English in Spain to kids and adults and agree that his English isn't the best having been here a year and supposedly done a Masters. However, I am sure he gets nervous doing public interviews and that it is better in private. I know my Spanish would not be as good with a camera in my face. Even so, it is worse than Capello's, Scolari's or Benitez's when he came here.

I think it is one of many symptoms of his incongruity in this league and at this club. He did wonderful things at Seville and did good jobs at other clubs to given the resources. But here he appears lost and the wins agasint Arsenal and Chelsea while wonderful were exceptions not rules. I think people overestimate the importance of 'magical tactics'. Not that tactics and strategy are not important, indispensable aspects of football management but they are not by a long way the be all and end all. As important are motivation, personality, confidence, clarity and man management. Ramos fails in these respects I think and his tactical and selective decisions far from make up for his dour and poker face persona, merely exacerbate them.

I am not spitting rage at Ramos. I have disagreed with many of his decisions but that's just opinion. I just think it is a great shame but he is not right for us and it's time to fold the cards and find a new man.

[Garm]

Give Ghally a squad number and play him, ok he threw his shirt down and disrespected the club but at least he wanted to play and was gutted he was subbed

I agree, he had just come on too and I can understand he was mad, although what he did was stupid. But I cant see that being the reason why he's not playing now. If Ramos think he is good enough, I think he would play. I would also give squad numbers to Rocha, Taarabt and Dervite. Give them a try. Can't get any worse anyway.

[kelloggs]

Good post aramapa, I too have taught English in Spain to kids and adults and agree that his English isn't the best having been here a year and supposedly done a Masters. However, I am sure he gets nervous doing public interviews and that it is better in private. I know my Spanish would not be as good with a camera in my face. Even so, it is worse than Capello's, Scolari's or Benitez's when he came here.

I think it is one of many symptoms of his incongruity in this league and at this club. He did wonderful things at Seville and did good jobs at other clubs to given the resources. But here he appears lost and the wins agasint Arsenal and Chelsea while wonderful were exceptions not rules. I think people overestimate the importance of 'magical tactics'. Not that tactics and strategy are not important, indispensable aspects of football management but they are not by a long way the be all and end all. As important are motivation, personality, confidence, clarity and man management. Ramos fails in these respects I think and his tactical and selective decisions far from make up for his dour and poker face persona, merely exacerbate them.

I am not spitting rage at Ramos. I have disagreed with many of his decisions but that's just opinion. I just think it is a great shame but he is not right for us and it's time to fold the cards and find a new man.

Exactly the sentiments of my post earlier!

[aramapa]

I think it is one of many symptoms of his incongruity in this league and at this club. He did wonderful things at Seville and did good jobs at other clubs to given the resources. But here he appears lost and the wins agasint Arsenal and Chelsea while wonderful were exceptions not rules. I think people overestimate the importance of 'magical tactics'. Not that tactics and strategy are not important, indispensable aspects of football management but they are not by a long way the be all and end all. As important are motivation, personality, confidence, clarity and man management. Ramos fails in these respects I think and his tactical and selective decisions far from make up for his dour and poker face persona, merely exacerbate them.


Yeah, I agree with you, and would go as far as to say that the attributes you rightly say he lacks are even more important than the tactics of what happens on the field. The lack of coherence, backbone, purpose and fight is so obvious. In any case, as kellogg and many other point out, even the tactical aspect of his managerial performance is highly questionable. It's all rather sad really...had the situation at Spurs been a bit different, perhaps if we'd had a real heart and solid core before he arrived, he might have been a roaring success. To me, one of the major building blocks on which success is made is that togetherness and team spirit that we see in pub teams up and down the country. Tottenham don't have that, I'm afraid, and Ramos, I feel is unable to create it. As an aside at Levy and the board, we all know football's a business, but you can't just chop and change players, and just expect a winning team - it certainly shows what was and still is the major considerations at THFC - making money. Unfortunately and somewhat ironically, that seems to be backfiring...after all if you don't win any games, they you can't make so much money in the championship... Anyway, who knows, perhaps a couple of wins and it'll all change around? But, right now, I'm all out of optimism after our continued direction and heart - less performances.

[striebs]

Woodgate told BBC Sport: "People say we are too good to go down but we aren't. I've seen it happen at Leeds and they had a better team than we do here." <!-- E SF -->
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The club's statement about "missing out on another striker due to agent activity" is an admission by the hierarchy that they realised the magnitude of the cockup they had made of the latter stages of the transfer window .

I'd like to know what Woodgate's assessment was at the time or whether it has changed with the benefit of hindsight .

Certainly Jermain Defoe and (to my annoyance) Andy Gray have been proved right .

Our squad has very few outstanding players and even fewer with any sort of steel and no leader .

[Ryan]

one of the better players!!!! what fucking game were you watching!!! 93 minutes 0 shots on goal!! CLASS just what you need from your captain and attacking midfield player. HE IS SHITE! why does he get so much backing off fans, what because he runs about alot ,big deal so did robbie savage and look how cack he was.

I can imagine what your reply to my next statement is gonna be already but i'll say it anyway. We could do with a player like Robbie Savage (in his prime) in our team at the moment.

[vicbob]

I am utterley dispondent about the situation. How did we get in this mess. The team look equally as bemused and clueless as me. Up until a week ago i wasn't blaming JR, but the last too games have been such a disorganised, unprofesional, il-disciplined inept display that surely the buck must stop with him. The players seem to be crying out for some leadership and guidance. The last thing we need to do is change the manager (and the team) again as we desperately need stability at the club, but i feel the whole structure is wrong.
We have managed to self destruct again, both on and of the pitch and i feel utterly pissed off (and slightly bored) by the whole situation.

[Coyboy]

Yeah, I agree with you, and would go as far as to say that the attributes you rightly say he lacks are even more important than the tactics of what happens on the field. The lack of coherence, backbone, purpose and fight is so obvious. In any case, as kellogg and many other point out, even the tactical aspect of his managerial performance is highly questionable. It's all rather sad really...had the situation at Spurs been a bit different, perhaps if we'd had a real heart and solid core before he arrived, he might have been a roaring success. To me, one of the major building blocks on which success is made is that togetherness and team spirit that we see in pub teams up and down the country. Tottenham don't have that, I'm afraid, and Ramos, I feel is unable to create it. As an aside at Levy and the board, we all know football's a business, but you can't just chop and change players, and just expect a winning team - it certainly shows what was and still is the major considerations at THFC - making money. Unfortunately and somewhat ironically, that seems to be backfiring...after all if you don't win any games, they you can't make so much money in the championship... Anyway, who knows, perhaps a couple of wins and it'll all change around? But, right now, I'm all out of optimism after our continued direction and heart - less performances.

I would agree with that. I don't think anyone comes out of this smelling of roses. But the board adhered to Ramos' wishes to use a hatchet rather than a scapel to change this team when, for me, it wasn't called for. If we had signed a number ten, ie Arshavin, then we may be in a better position but we would still lack leadership, tenacity, fight and resolve-and that is assuming Arshavin would have settled.

[Mogga321]

yeah thats right he gave a commanding Captains performance, leading from the front, the fulcrum of everything from the middle of the park inspired the players around him manged to get himself up with and beyond Bent on numerous occasions err twice from a 5 man midfield

now I think about it your right........

As for Gomes yep think he is a liability, Bale was appallingly poor and O'Hara was just brain dead

I seem to remember that I got slaughtered on this site for saying Gomes was a clown when we signed him - yes he can pull off top saves but a lot of the time the situation is of his own making anyway & he is going to cost us a lot of goals

Overall confidence is by far and away our biggest issue - Bent & Campball are a big step down on what we had before but they are far from the worst strikeforce in the prem, and we now have enough quality in midfield to create plenty of chances....note I didn't include pav in our 'strikers' as he is a carthorse who wil prove a far bigger flop than Rebov

That is why it is so vital that the lane is rocking on Sunday - we need an atmosthere like Arsenal in the cup last year & to keep going for the full 90mins whatever is happening on the pitch! SING UP TOTTENHAM (and that includes you paxton/west stand!!)

My blind optimism is kicking in here but am I the only one who thinks 25/1 for us to win the UEFA cup is a huge price? If we can scrape out of the group then the team could be a different proposition in March & you won't get bigger than 10/1 - a great trading position if nothing else

[UncleBuck]

Wonder if he'll be dropped now for Sunday :bang:

[infamousyiddo]

we are in the brown stuff BIG TIME, and i dont see a way out

[Samwise Gamgee]

Italian teams concede a lot of the midfield, so I wasn't surprised we looked a lot better last night than Sunday last.

I think, though, that it hid a lot of problems that the Stoke game threw up and playing Bolton will show them up again. In both games we didn't create a great deal, although strangely more against Udinese than Stoke.

I've watched Spurs for 47 years and I have to say that the team which went down in the late 1970's was a less skillful side but one which had some semblence of character. I feel the same vibes now as I did then.

I've been an advocate of Juande Ramos being given more time, especially as the Board and Comolli really caused the bad start. But the Board hasn't caused the continuing horror show, We all know the adage that a DoF doesn't work over here and Levy has virtually admitted it - if he did say so - that he wants Ramos to adopt a more english approach. Well, if so, get an english or british coach.

I was at home a few weeks back on holiday and Ballage made a comment that Monchi was Ramos' right-hand man and got him some superb players - who he was able to use by just talking tactics. I doubt you need a talk about putting yourself about in La Liga. So, my focus was initially on Comolli [and Levy] for this mess. Then I read something which appalled me: Ramos only lasted 8 - 9 weeks at Espanyol because he was hopeless - their results were awful. So, lightening has struck twice and we're under the tree.

I think Venables made a "play" for the role at Spurs and I hope he gets it bewcause apart from some very non-Spurs type coaches, like Curbishley and Allerdyce, no one in their right mind would want to run Spurs.

Woodgate as captain would be a good start. A more permanent CB has to come in for King. We still need a strong-tackling midfielder - hence Upson and Parker - and someone who can play on the left and cross a ball.

If we lose to Bolton - and we're fair game for absolutely everyone and anyone - we will be so far off the radar, I cannot see Ramos staying. Leaving him there until Christmas will spell our doom. In fact, unless a new coach was to immediately change things around, I actually cannot see us staying up under any circumstances. We need a minimum 38 points i .e 14 - 15 wins. Can you see it? I can't.

Woodgate's remark about being rudderless goes to Ramos and the buck stops there.

As Fraser would say "We're doomed, we're all doomed"

[hodspurs]

i said in the summer that keane and berba kept us up last season and this year would be a write off.but even i did not think it would be this bad....bad but not this bad.

[strader]

lost for words, can't blame anybody, the players, management, board, press..... we have the players to play 4-5-1, 4-3-3, 4-4-1-1 and yet nothing is happening.

With this performance the protesters will even lose interest. We talk of leaders, players taking respondsibility...bringback ghaly, bring back Ginola etc.

Just praying and hoping we turn this around. I still believe and we will turn it around.

[Edgarsglasses]

Woody has been Ramos best signing without a doubt,personally feel if we lose to Bolton its all over for us! this game is like a cup final to us at the mo COYS!!!

[spursbhoy67]

I will make a prediction that Ramos will be fired before Comolli. The higher ups don't see Commolli as being the issue, so will not throw that bone to the fans or the media. Ramos position may become untenable which will either see him walk or Levy have to fire which he does not want to do. This may get a lot worse before it gets better.

I still see us staying up and making a run in one of two cups. Not what we expected mid summer, but acceptable at this point in time.

[vigospur]

1. At the time Ramos seemed like a brilliant appointment (to me anyway). 2. Twelve months on there are too many question marks about him to list here (but start with a demotivated, ill disciplined, shapeless team). Sure he has been built a rotten hand in the transfer window but the squad he has is massively underperforming.
I expect the fans will be given Comolli's head (and he can't complain) but if Ramos can't organise and motivate this lot it won't make any difference. No player any better is going to sign (and risk Championship football).
If he do have the wrong man we have to change and just suffer the humiliation.

[Pat Rice Spurs fan]

I will make a prediction that Ramos will be fired before Comolli. The higher ups don't see Commolli as being the issue, so will not throw that bone to the fans or the media. Ramos position may become untenable which will either see him walk or Levy have to fire which he does not want to do. This may get a lot worse before it gets better.

I still see us staying up and making a run in one of two cups. Not what we expected mid summer, but acceptable at this point in time.

When Ramos first came, it was made clear that he was Commoli's man and he would stand or fall by this decision. So, surely Commoli should be the first to go.

As for Ramos, when he first arrived he seemed to be a bit of a Hoddle - tactically astute but lacking in man management skills - but now he seems to be losing that too. Last night was surely the perfect opportunity to play european players in a type of game they were used to. This meant Modric & Dos Santos (& Huddlestone if he was fit) should start. However, Jaunde read it differently. He later brought them on as substitutes and, arguably, they turned out to be our best players. At least he saw his error and brought Modric on early.

I'm now worried, as I don't think we can wait until January's possible new players "gelling", so I feel Commoli & Ramos both have to go. And it would be nice if Levy admitted he'd got it wrong.

But who'd take over?

Mancini has been rumoured to be going to QPR - surely we're a better option even in our current position - but would another foreign coach need time to settle?
Hoddle again? Venables again? Keegan? :shrug:

[fluentblu]

Agreed! OH MY GOD I ACTUALLY CANT BELIEVE I ADMITTED THAT!!!! WE ARE IN TROUBLE

[2bearis2do]

Please make this man our Captain NOW!
:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:

[glenda]

of course we are in trouble!!! ive been saying it for weeks!!! why the fuck did we sign pav & modric for a combined 30 mil when they bring fuck all to the team!!!! i dont wanna hear give them time,we aint got time!!!! i feel sick with worry!!!

[pistolP]

Jenas is one of the main reasons we are in this mess.

He is too weak to be at the mid-backbone of our team.

Funny how no other clubs have come in to try to buy him in the past three transfer windows ...

I hear M.Utd are coming in for him in the January transfer window. :rofl:

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

[theoldguy]

I have been surprised that no player has shown a semblance of leadership to call a closed door meeting of the players. Unlikely to happen I know but if Chelsea or Man U were in our position Terry or Ferdinand would be doing something about the general torpitude in our players. Woodie, since you clearly grasp our position, please do something about it, you have the quality and maturity for the players to listen to you.

[davidmatzdorf]

one of the better players!!!! what fucking game were you watching!!! 93 minutes 0 shots on goal!! CLASS just what you need from your captain and attacking midfield player. HE IS SHITE! why does he get so much backing off fans, what because he runs about alot ,big deal so did robbie savage and look how cack he was.

I don't even know which player you're talking about, because you're so sloppy-minded and pathetically incompetent that you haven't bothered to include his name.

What I can say, without even knowing the name of the player whom you have chosen to abuse, is that you are a piece of unmitigated human shit who doesn't belong on this site, doesn't deserve to be a Spurs fan and should put your head in the oven immediately.

I'm out of patience. I liked to take pride in never including personal abuse in a post, instead only criticising what people write, but the site is full of scum and I've stopped caring. Human filth, full of hate. I give up.

You people ought to be ashamed to be Spurs "supporters". You're not. You're just bad people.

I'll be back when there's some football to discuss and I don't have to wade through scores of posts from malevolent people whom I'd rather see incarcerated or euthanised.

I have contempt for 2/3 of the people who post on this site. Time to leave.

[DCSPUR]

we need to sack Juande and Como - bring in Venables and hope we can get out of this mess.
http://www.coysfutbol.com/2008/10/24/645828/relegation

[YiddoJames]

http://www.stalbansreview.co.uk/sport/localsport/3788523.Could_Roy_Keane_replace_hapless_Ramos_at_S purs_/

[AdelaideSpur]

I don't even know which player you're talking about, because you're so sloppy-minded and pathetically incompetent that you haven't bothered to include his name.

What I can say, without even knowing the name of the player whom you have chosen to abuse, is that you are a piece of unmitigated human shit who doesn't belong on this site, doesn't deserve to be a Spurs fan and should put your head in the oven immediately.

I'm out of patience. I liked to take pride in never including personal abuse in a post, instead only criticising what people write, but the site is full of scum and I've stopped caring. Human filth, full of hate. I give up.

You people ought to be ashamed to be Spurs "supporters". You're not. You're just bad people.



I'll be back when there's some football to discuss and I don't have to wade through scores of posts from malevolent people whom I'd rather see incarcerated or euthanised.

I have contempt for 2/3 of the people who post on this site. Time to leave.

You never include personal abuse in your posts? Ive never posted in response to you before, but in every post ive seen of yours i would say 90% of them are personal attacks on someone elses post. Get off your fucking high horse.
The guy your posting to is obviously talking about Jenas. The whole last page was written about him and in his opinion Jenas is shite. While i dont think he is shite he (in my opinion) is not in the top 15 central midfielders in the premiership and you need two in the top 15 to be a constant top 5 team. He is also never captain material. A captain either has to be:
a) A hard assed angry man who every player know is going to get stuck in for them and will give them a serve if they are playing shit.
or
B) Be inspirational on and off the field (obviously the Stoke captain doesn't have to be as inspirational as the Arsenal captain but in respect to thier playing peers)
Jenas is niether, I think he is a better player than most ppl here but he is definately not captain material.

[Rocket]

I don't even know which player you're talking about, because you're so sloppy-minded and pathetically incompetent that you haven't bothered to include his name.

What I can say, without even knowing the name of the player whom you have chosen to abuse, is that you are a piece of unmitigated human shit who doesn't belong on this site, doesn't deserve to be a Spurs fan and should put your head in the oven immediately.

I'm out of patience. I liked to take pride in never including personal abuse in a post, instead only criticising what people write, but the site is full of scum and I've stopped caring. Human filth, full of hate. I give up.

You people ought to be ashamed to be Spurs "supporters". You're not. You're just bad people.

I'll be back when there's some football to discuss and I don't have to wade through scores of posts from malevolent people whom I'd rather see incarcerated or euthanised.

I have contempt for 2/3 of the people who post on this site. Time to leave.

Pot Kettle Black

:hello:

[2bearis2do]

Pot Kettle Black

:hello:

Poor old David, he just can´t help himself. Its like an itch he can never scratch. You need to lighten up Senor Matzdorf, lighten up big time.

[The Original Yiddster]

I don't even know which player you're talking about, because you're so sloppy-minded and pathetically incompetent that you haven't bothered to include his name.

What I can say, without even knowing the name of the player whom you have chosen to abuse, is that you are a piece of unmitigated human shit who doesn't belong on this site, doesn't deserve to be a Spurs fan and should put your head in the oven immediately.

I'm out of patience. I liked to take pride in never including personal abuse in a post, instead only criticising what people write, but the site is full of scum and I've stopped caring. Human filth, full of hate. I give up.

You people ought to be ashamed to be Spurs "supporters". You're not. You're just bad people.

I'll be back when there's some football to discuss and I don't have to wade through scores of posts from malevolent people whom I'd rather see incarcerated or euthanised.

I have contempt for 2/3 of the people who post on this site. Time to leave.

sorry to see you go DM, but do me a favour and convince Coyboy to go with you, not sure about 'human shit' but certainly think 'sanctimonious shit' sums him up.

[bigspurs]

I'll be back when there's some football to discuss and I don't have to wade through scores of posts from malevolent people whom I'd rather see incarcerated or euthanised.

I have contempt for 2/3 of the people who post on this site. Time to leave.

I wondered when you would crawl back out of the gutter and bore us all with your usual drivel – Cock sucker!

[bigspurs]

sorry to see you go DM, but do me a favour and convince Coyboy to go with you, not sure about 'human shit' but certainly think 'sanctimonious shit' sums him up.

Absolutely! :clap:

[Coyboy]

Time for people here to grow up.

[mawspurs]

What the hell is all this bickering going on between members of this site who should know better.

DM I've always considered you one of the better posters on this site, but you're letting some of the other posters get to you and that has not been the case in the past.

And some of the guys attacking DM are out of order as well. This used to be a great site where fans could agree or disagree without resorting to mindless insults and abuse.

Please can we get back to that and stop ruining the best Spurs site by far.

It may be time for the mods to get a bit more involved to stop this behaviour and remind every one that we are all on the same side here despite differing opinions.