Attacking partnerships, what have we learnt from Saturday's game??

[spurs4europe]

COLUMNS

I started a thread in the forums last week on which was the best partnership up front for Saturday's game.

This piece is the result of that and discusses what has become a crucial issue for our team right now: our strike partnerships. There has been a wide range of views on the subject; needless to say that Berbatov has been amazing in <st1:place w:st="on">Europe</st1:place> and his partnership with Keane has been a revelation.

At the same time though, it has also been suggested that a Berbatov-Defoe combination is preferable to a Berbatov-Keane one, as the latter is a combination of two players that are too similar in style and perform better when partnering an out-and-out goal-scorer. To be honest, I don't think this is conclusive yet.
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I have decided to discount yesterday’s game when considering all this. I agree with many that Jol is not to blame for the result and the team performance yesterday. I was advocating the replacing of Defoe for Keane all week and I have to admit that immediately after last game I regretted the fact that my wish had come true.<o:p></o:p>

However having slept on it, I have changed my point of view completely. I actually believe that in the first 10-15 minutes, the tactics were pretty good and Keane was supporting Berbatov rather effectively. In spite of this, as the game progressed and our midfield decided they would rather be inside playing pro evo 6 instead of playing our main rivals on a Saturday winter afternoon, we got increasingly overrun in the middle, and this was not helped by the fact that Poll was awarding every decision against us, I might add. Consequently Keane had to drop deeper and deeper to compensate and although, and even though the plan was for him to help out the midfield and bulk it out, it was in no way to the extent that he had to. <o:p></o:p>

Needless to say that this left Berbatov more and more isolated as our main link between midfield and attack disappeared, and as the game wore on, and the goals let in, Berbatov got more and more frustrated and stopped chasing (which doesn't really say much for his mentality, but that's not for now). That is why I’ve decided to discount yesterday’s game to such a degree. If the midfield (especially Zokora, and Assou-Ekotto in the defense) had performed to the level we have come to expect of them, levels that we know they can reach and should reach on a consistent basis, then maybe Robbie Keane would not have had to play a midfield role as opposed to the second striker role he should have been playing and we would have got a better idea of how they perform together.<o:p></o:p>

Maybe if Defoe had been playing instead of Keane we would have been stronger in attack, but if events were to unfold in the same way, we would have been even more exposed in the centre of the park. One can argue that a good defence is a good attack (offence!) and so by playing Defoe we would have put more pressure on them further up the field, but that is all conjecture due to the above reasons.
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So this brings me back to the purpose of this piece:
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Who is a better partner for Berbatov? <o:p></o:p>
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Keane <o:p></o:p>
To me, it still seems inconclusive; I am still inclined towards Robbie on the basis that yesterday’s game didn't really count for much when considering effective attacking partnerships and combinations. As always, Robbie had a good game, often trying to carry us alone. He is a great team player and very aware, but often but leaves Berbatov too isolated. From what I’ve seen, Berbatov does not really enjoy the target man role, he much prefers having someone to play with and exchange the ball with, rather than just heading it on or receiving it and laying it on for others. <o:p></o:p>

Robbie Keane and Berbatov can play fantastically together, as has been shown in <st1:place w:st="on">Europe</st1:place>. Could it be that the reason for this is that our midfield is so much more dynamic when compared to European teams’ midfields that he doesn’t have to do so much dirty work, and can instead concentrate on what we want him to do – form that awesomely potent strike partnership. Needless to say, our midfield has been less than awesome this season, and I think that is one of the reasons for our (and particularly Robbie’s) lack of goals this season. Against premiership teams, we look distinctly average, and so this forces Keane further and further back, with a direct effect on his goal opportunities, and limits his ability to create for others, most notably Berbatov.<o:p></o:p>
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Defoe<o:p></o:p>
That’s why Defoe seems to play well with Berbatov in the Premiership- because you can depend on him being up front, and I guess where you want him to be. However, I find Defoe far too selfish as a player and not at all aware of what goes on around him. He doesn't pass, and create opportunities for others, and he doesn’t contribute to a team performance as much as I would like. He does however - and this has been said numerous times - then come up with some fantastic individual skill that disguises what can be an average performance. But maybe you need those types of player too to balance a team? <o:p></o:p>

So how do you balance those two types of partnerships? Berbatov probably would play better if Robbie Keane was further up the field, however if our midfield was getting overrun, then perhaps they wouldn’t get the ball at all. <o:p></o:p>
This can be said of Defoe too, but at least with Defoe you know you will get a goal threat too even if the ball doesn’t come up to the attack all too often. These are going to be questions that MJ is going to have to find answers to if we are going to be a successful team.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
For what it’s worth, after yesterday I have come up with a final alternative, which was incidentally played during yesterday’s game for the last 10 minutes. Assuming our midfield continues in the same vein of being incredibly inconsistent (we’ll have to see if the return of Jenas does change this), how about the possibility of playing a Defoe-Berbatov partnership with Keane in a more advanced left wing position?<o:p></o:p>

This could potentially solve all our problems, especially in home games, however has a potentially large limitation of leaving us too weak and exposed in the middle, especially when with Lennon on the right too. However, this does give us the bite we require from our attacking two, and also the drive, progression and skill from Keane may be enough to create opportunities for them. If Keane also performs as well as he did against Chelski (although - and this is a big although- he did have Malbranque playing just inside him to cover for him when he made his runs) then he should also be able create much more space for the middle two, and possibly even Lennon.

Then you have Berbatov and Defoe feeding off of more through balls, and you can imagine the potential in that. The only thing about that again, though, is that Keane is a forward, and it may end up damaging his confidence. I must add as well that I see this formation as more of a short term solution rather than a long term one, but it is still another possibility.
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As I already mentioned, these are going to have to be resolved by Jol if we are to make a success of this season, and I have real confidence that he will.<o:p></o:p>
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COYS!!!

This is my very first article on this site, hope you like it....

[zubs]

Just managed to get out of bed got loads of text from nomads winding me up.Robbie should play on the left with Lennon on the right hud an jj in the middle berb and JD up front home and away.You dont see manure arse chelski changing there team for home or away why should we.Weve got the best squad quality wise for years we should use the best team and get consitency.Tainio might be a spurs supporter but 2 goals against inter(friendly) and a couple in the reserves dont make you quality we need to push on.Ekkoto look like he doesnt give a monkeyfrom his facials and more so from his coments a month ago about football not being important.Lee done well when he came on i reckon jd should have come on sooner you might remember a near post cross with nobody there jd wouldve been.Berb what can i say get in the gym with hud and build your self up you look like aweakilng get pushed off the ball by Toure whos no Ruddock.jj you made me proud gave 100% after your injury and made me smile when you clothelined Lundgberg he might have given the penalty away but what commitment he showed being the last man.Zokora is having the same problem as davids cant pass to his own player.they say huds is not ready and he cant play too many matches cause hes too young i give you the answer in one word Fabregas.Shouldve bought barry in the summer but wouldnt mind taylor be an improvement on ekotto.Also reckon robbo not the same commanding figure befor he wen to germany since hes come back king and daws dont look too comfortable as they did last season.
Know ive got that off my chest off to the gym to take my anger out on some weights if only berbs would do the same.

[mawspurs]

I think you hit the nail on the head when you said the problems stem from midfield. We have still not figured out how to play in middle especially away from home. And we are relying on the front two to create things for each other rather than giving them the service they need from midfield.

For me the simplest thing would have been to stick Huddlestone in the Carrick role and carry on as we were. However the purchase of Zokora changed all that and meant we had to adjust to a different style of play in midfield. Whatever solution Jol finds to this one he needs to find it fast because the season is ebbing away and we don't want to be where we currently once Christmas has passed.

As for strike partnerships we saw last season that Keane and Mido link up well, with Keane the creative one and Mido the main scorer of the two. And in Berbatov and Defoe we have a similar partnership with Berby the more creative and Defoe the main goal scorer. I think we should keep those partnerships like that, of course it means Mido is going to have to recover from his injury and step up a gear because he has been well off the boil this season.

[xzander]

Amused by the title; "Attacking partnerships, what have we learnt from Saturday's game?" which you then proceed to discount entirely!
I prefer Defoe on the basis that he is a selfish striker and he operates most effectively when he plays as one. It's not true that he doesn't pass or contribute to the team; I still recall his lovely pass to Keane for our third against Charlton last year. I just think that he backs himself to score all the time which is why he'll pass less than Keane, especially if he's got half a sight of goal.
That said, Defoe will be the one to be up with play and who'll link most effectively with Berbatov or Mido. Keane is more likely to drop into channels and back into midfield in order to pick up possession and create, which makes him a great weapon to have and he's undoubtedly a world class forward, but I'd make the distinction between Defoe as an out and out "striker" and Keane as an "offensive player".
Whichever one we play should depend on the specific requirements of the game and the tactics we're going with, which is where we're falling down at the moment: I don't think Jol chooses whether to play Keane or Defoe on that basis, I'm incined to think he swaps them round because he feels if one played last week the other should play this week.
However, as we found yesterday it's all pointless if the midfield and defence don't give them a strong platform to work from which is clearly what happened yesterday, with Berbatov isolated, Keane reduced to foraging in midfield, Zokora continually giving the ball away cheaply, and Assou-Ekotto on some kind of footballing version of a suicide attempt.
I personally think the real problem is the midfield and has been all season; with Carrick gone and Zokora maybe not over his malaria (and being a different player in all respects anyway) we're having trouble gaining impetus and drive from the engine room of the side and we haven't worked out how to impose our authority on sides, especially away from home.
Following on from this we're now at a critical stage with regards to our away form. With the midfield still in a transitional phase we've had a lot of trouble coping with the fact that we've not exactly had an easy set of away games to deal with. We've gone away to Arsenal, Bolton, Manchester United and Liverpool, which means that 4 of our 8 away games have been very tough and it's not been helpful in terms of getting the midfield working with each other and playing effectively given the change that's been forced on it. This has led to a lack of confidence going away from home generally which has created a bit of a monkey on the team's collective back culminating in yesterday's display, which was utterly horrifying; we never looked like getting anything from yesterday once the first goal went in; the whole team failed to function or compete on the most basic levels and against your worst enemies that's nothing less than unforgivable.
The away form has to be sorted out as a matter of urgency, if I was Martin Jol I'd spend Sunday getting the youth side to fire balls at the first team's arses. It;s going to bugger up the whole season if it continues, we need to be strong both home and away. The fact that we're still only six points off 4th is irrelevant; we're level pegging with Manchester City. and only six points off the team in 18th place, which by my calculation puts us right in mid-table and in League terms that translates as 'completely bog-standard'. We're having trouble adding cup success to the League form of least year, which we all thought might be a problem but still isn't very nice when it actually happens.
And I've just spotted that our first FA Cup match is going to be away at Cardiff City, which is more or less the worst draw we could have got: shit stadium, rowdy support with a big hooligan element, a team who're near the top of their league and high on confidence and a likelihood of terrible weather doesn't sound like a picnic for a team finding their way away from home. Expect this one to be on telly and for it to be a difficult day.
In conclusion then, things could be a shitload better but the season could still pan out to be a rousing success if we sort out our away form and if the rotation of the strikers is done on the basis of who we're playing and how we're playing it rather than just because we feel like it.

[Cyril]

A couple of the commentators made the point before the match that the Scum defense would play about 5-10 yards further up the pitch knowing Keane was in instead of Defoe, because of his relative lack of pace (and it's true that things usually slow down with Keane). They were proved right, and that of course meant their defense and midfield played closer together, giving us even less room. Sure enough, we were completely overrun in midfield (didn't help that none of our midfield were any good yesterday either). They also pressured us in defense, so that most of our passes were hurried, backwards or lumped upfield to Toure.

We were outplayed all over the place, but turning to the strikers, I think JD should have played after his goal against Wigan. Jol just seems to have a blind spot in this regard, irrespective of the effect it could have on Defoe's motivation. Others might disagree, but I would pick JD over Keane every time. Goals like the one against Wigan is what I'm talking about.

[ultimateloner]

Just start Berbatov with Keane whenever they are fit. They are the best 2 strikers of the 4.

Play Defoe when we need miracles or when our midfield is so crap compared to the other team that we should just hope to score from nothing.

[spurs4europe]

Amused by the title; "Attacking partnerships, what have we learnt from Saturday's game?" which you then proceed to discount entirely!


haha!! yes i know, i had a couple of notes for what i wanted to say, but it kind of just started flowing and i sort of changed direction halfway through! i kept the title to exaggerate the piece.....

anyway the message is still the same, and we did learn some things from yesterday, like the reason why tottenham don't score goals in the premiership, who might be a better bet, etc.

i agree with a lot of what you said, except for 2 things: i don't think keane drops that much into the midfield unless he really has to. i think tactically, he's pretty astute, and knows where the team is lacking. i'm not sure he would really drop all that much if the midfield did not lack so.

second, i think it unlikely he swaps on the basis to give each a game every other week (or so). i think last week, keane didn't play because he had played during the week and so defoe filled in. i also think he played yesterday because he thought we might need additional support in the midfield. i think we can all agree that he was right, just not to the degree any of us could believe!

good post by the way, thanks for the feedback

[jassthebass]

Good post - can anyone answer me why we've got no planB?
There seems to be no one willing to hustle an bustle in the middle. We seem to want to play football on our own terms only - when teams go for us we buckle - as other people have already said, we have a toothless midfield.
I just hope we learn from this...........please!:duh:

Gotta go to work 2moro and face a couple of gooners!!

COYS...............

[Paxtonite]

For the record i believe that Berbatov and Defoe should start every time. Keane is an altogether different animal that has a purpose in certain games (usually against the lesser teams) and has a different role (more of a midfielder i guess).

The problem has been in the midfield all season. No cohesion, no movement and no direction. The strikers often get isolated and have to forage for themselves. Given the plethora of midfield players at the club, my only gripe for our management team is that they have yet to solve the crucial issue that is the heartbeat of any team - our best midfield. On top of this our only attacking option is to get the ball to Lennon. The guy is 19 and we expect him to carry this team. Too many teams have figured that all they have to do is double up on him and they stop us playing.

The quality of our passing is poor. Too many passes catching players on their heels. Players needing to turn, or play the ball of the wrong foot and other basic errors. There is no passing on to a forward run.

On top of this i believe that we still need a left back. Neither BAE or Lee are good enough for the premiership.

It is amazing how in Europe we seem unbeatable and at home in the league we do well but it is getting desperate in the league when considering the away form too. This league is very open this season and we just need a few wins to kick start our season (having said that we are almost half way through already).

WE NEED A MIDFIELD TO STAND UP AND BE COUNTED. THAT'S WHEN THINGS WILL IMPROVE.

:roll:

[coys63]

Why not play all three from the start and have an attacking mindset right from the off. You need creative players like Keane (our best creative player by far) to open up defences and goalscorers like JD (our best goalscorer by far) to capitalise on the chances created.
For the knockers who would argue that our defensive frailties would be even greater - bollocks! Look at Manure - Giggs, Rooney, Saha, Ronaldo - hardly defensive players. If you don't score you don't win no matter how good your defense is.

[striebs]

Good post - can anyone answer me why we've got no planB?
There seems to be no one willing to hustle an bustle in the middle. We seem to want to play football on our own terms only - when teams go for us we buckle - as other people have already said, we have a toothless midfield.
I just hope we learn from this...........please!:duh:
COYS...............

I hope it is plan B that we have been playing because I hate to think that Robinson aimlessly lumping balls as far up the pitch as possible is plan A .

Neither Mido nor Berbatov are effective target men like velcro chest Kanoute so it wreaks of desperation .

Against Chelsea , every one of the players was tremendous to the point where it was pointless to try to single out any individuals .

We proved on Saturday that if you have to compensate for a weakness in midfield by redeploying a striker you are not going to have any success against a top team like Arsenal .

Our players seem to like playing in Europe and have had European experience at former clubs which makes me think they are taking it for granted that they will be playing in Europe next year .

[dokka]

I think what we've seen the last couple of months is that Keano is dropping furhter and further back on the pitch.

His game has become more complete in the sence that he's now ha better defending player, and more of a playmaker. That's good and i think we all saw the best of it in the Chelsea-game.
On the negative side: It feels like years since I saw the old, hit and run robbie Keane, the man that suddenly appeared in the box from no where, and brought us a goal. Or the one that fired home from 16 yards and gave us a goal from nothing. These days he's more of a man that likes to give service to the attackers.

Berbatov, though, has yet to show that he's capable of playing the role of a more or less lone striker - because that's what he's going to be if Keano continues to play in his new role. Berbatov hasn't up to now looked physical enough, in my point of view, to make it on his own up there. On saturday aginst the scum he hardly fought back, and it almost made me go out of my mind (even in his worst days, Dazza Anderton at least managed to cut down a few of the scum-blokes and get him self a booking).

And, are we actually in a position to play with a lone striker, plus a player in a kind of free role, going down in the midfield, out on the left etc etc?
I don't think so. Maybe mido, who is a tougher kind of player, would have done better up front on his own, but I don't prefer to play with a one-man-atack under any sircumstanses.

I think the solution therefore is to transformate Robbie Keane into the attacking midfielder/playmaker it looks like he want to be, and pair him with either Huddlestone/Zokora/Tainio/Ghaly/Malbranque - the one of the lot who shows the best form.

Then Jol would get his hands free up front, and could play Defoe more regularly.

In any case Jermaine deserves his chance now.

[Hugo]

It has to be defoe. Keane is too slow, when we try and break quick he slows the tempo down and holds up play. Granted he can pull an amazing pass out of no where, but I would prefer the goal threat of defoe any day.

[Gazzacoys]

My major disappointments this season have been the predictability of our moves across the back four, the reluctance to put the ball into the box from either free-kicks or throw-ins, but my pet hate is to see us sit back against 10 men. I can't quote chapter-and-verse on how many minutes we've played against 10 men this season, but i do know that our record is 0-2, which must be a record across all the divisions.
If we are to play 2 creative wide men (Lennon and Malbranque) I think we need the stability of a pairing from Zokora / Huddlestone / Davids / Jenas in the centre. At home, I'm in favour of playing Keane alongside one of them (a la Scholes), with Defoe and Berbatov up front. We should certainly have deployed this against Everton when they went down to 10. Away from home, I would play Keane in a 5-man midfield behind Berb or Mido.