Palacios loses his Wil power for Tottenham

[mawspurs]

Source: Ham & High

TOTTENHAM'S season has largely been defined by players who have come roaring out of the wilderness and produced their top form when it mattered most.

Gareth Bale, Roman Pavlyuchenko, David Bentley, Michael Dawson, Younes Kaboul. All of them initially came into the team as understudies, but finished the season with an enhanced reputation at Tottenham.

However, there is another side to the coin - the likes of Robbie Keane, Jermaine Jenas and... Wilson Palacios.

Fans may be appalled to see the tough-tackling Honduran included in that list. After all, the 25-year-old has been a key man in Harry Redknapp's ability to transform soft-centred Spurs into a complete unit.

Palacios started 38 of Tottenham's 50 games in the engine room. Surely it is blindingly obvious that, not only did he play a massive part in the top-four finish, he was one of the first names on the team sheet all through the campaign.

Well, not all the way. Palacios may have been the first central midfielder onto Redknapp's team sheet on the opening day of the season. But - despite being fit, fresh and available - the manager left him out for the two biggest matches, at home against Bolton and then away at Manchester City four days later.

"It was difficult in the last couple of games, leaving Wilson out of the team," said Redknapp. "That would never have entered my mind at one time, but we played so well when he was suspended against Arsenal and Chelsea that it was difficult. I decided to go with Tom [Huddlestone] and Luka [Modric] at Man City and it worked well for us."

He may not admit it, but the Spurs boss clearly lost some faith in Palacios towards the end of the season - and he was right to.

On his good days Palacios was virtually unplayable, breaking up every attack without anyone in the back line needing to move - the goalless FA Cup clash against Fulham at Craven Cottage springs to mind.

However, on his bad days he was clumsy, brainless and a total liability - in the 3-0 league defeat to Arsenal at the Emirates he managed to lose the ball to Cesc Fabregas from Spurs' own kick-off and then missed the tackle, with memorable consequences.

And, when the Lilywhites reached the defining stage of their season, Palacios started to have a lot of those bad days - and Tottenham started to lose.

Redknapp's side were undefeated in nine games when they travelled to Sunderland. Palacios started as usual and conceded a penalty, bundling David Meyler over from behind in the penalty area. Heurelho Gomes saved it but Spurs lost 3-1.

Palacios started again the following week, facing Portsmouth at Wembley - and he conceded a penalty, bundling Aruna Dindane over from behind. It was converted and Tottenham lost 2-0.

Palacios missed the victories over Arsenal and Chelsea but was restored to the starting line-up for the trip to Old Trafford - where he conceded a penalty, bundling Nani over from behind. Ryan Giggs scored and Spurs lost 3-1.

That was certainly Palacios' costliest error in Manchester, but he also had a day to forget in possession.

Redknapp was particularly incensed when, moments after Aaron Lennon had entered the fray, Palacios declined to play a simple ball out to the dangerous winger, choosing instead to curl the ball behind the United back line and out for a goal kick.

Three nailed-on penalties and three defeats from three starts. Meanwhile, when Palacios was excluded, Tottenham just happened to be brilliant - and tighter at the back.

The manager reverted to the central partnership of Huddlestone and Modric against Bolton and Man City. And, seeing the pair combine for their fourth straight win - as well as playing their part in two clean sheets - Redknapp admits that he has been given food for thought.

"Palacios got booked at Wembley, which looked like a massive loss for us, losing him from the midfield for the Arsenal and Chelsea games," he said. "Suddenly we had a midfield that you would have looked at and thought 'they're not strong enough'.

"But we've kept the ball and I think we've passed it well. It's been a team that's played football and I think if you keep the ball you haven't got to have people in there kicking people."

The manager back-tracked quickly: "Listen I'm not... Palacios is a fantastic player for me. All I'm saying is, we talk about having to have ball-winners, but you need people who can play at the end of the day. There's no point winning the ball if you give it away."

The intended recipient of that message was fairly clear. Redknapp's next team sheet is a long way off but, unlike last summer, it is debatable whether Palacios will be on it.

[whitelightwhiteheat]

What a load of rubbish! Harry hasn't "lost faith" with Sarge. More that he KEPT FAITH with the players who won crucial battles against Arsenal and Chelsea.

Despite the fact that his passing is, at times, wayward, WP is still a crucial cog in our team and will no doubt play as many games as he did last season, the only thing that could change that is if Sandro comes along and is absolutely sensational! That would be an altogether different headache for Harry...

[mil1lion]

He looked tired in body and mind towards the end of the season. He needs to be rested at times next season, and i'm sure that is one of the reasons we have Sandro in now. It's certainly nice knowing that we can live without him. There's no doubt that he will be a major part of our midfield next season though. I just think he'll be rested more frequently.

[Pinto]

BS. Palacios will do a wonderful job for us next season like he has done this season. He doesn't play 4 games and now he is Jenas or Keane? While most people are happy we aren't overly reliant on Wilson this guy sees it as a problem.

[TheVoiceofReason]

Those penalties he conceded were very annoying and his performances at the end of the season were weak, particularly in relation to what we had come to expect from him over the course of the season, yes.

BUT, there is no denying that he is very important for us and, although its somewhat of a cliche, the term 'form is temporary, class is permanent' comes into play, even though it makes me cringe just to write it. Wilson Palacios is a great player, he perhaps just lost his concentration over a couple of weeks, followed by his confidence on and off the ball. But he'll be back.

[TheChosenOne]

Hatchet job from the Ham & High. No thanks.

[WhiteHeartLowe]

I think his main strength is definately distructive, breaking up the opponants play, but when he gets the ball he sometimes seems at a loss for an idea of what to do with it, and often misplaces a pass back to the opposition. Plus, I think its right, he does clatter into people a bit too often, not so bad in the centre circle, a bit of a liability in our box!

[tommo84]

Source: Ham & High

The manager back-tracked quickly: "Listen I'm not... Palacios is a fantastic player for me. All I'm saying is, we talk about having to have ball-winners, but you need people who can play at the end of the day. There's no point winning the ball if you give it away."


This is a point which I, like many others, have often made about Palacios. I have never known any other player to bring me to my feet with a teriffic tackle in one moment, only to have me returning to my seat in despair in the next due to a misguided pass.

However, he is a fantastic player and, although we won without him at Man City with a team-sheet which Harry got absolutely right, I also believe that had he played at home to Bolton we may have won that game more convincingly than we did (not that it matters). The point I'm trying to make is that there are games when Palacios' inclusion is a must, and these definitely outnumber the games when he has cost us with his clumsiness and his questionable distribution.

The media will, as always, deal in absolutes and suggest that if Palacios isn't a nailed on starter in one game then he won't be a starter at all. We as fans are smart enough to know otherwise, and in a Champs Lge campaign I think he'll restore his reputation as one of our star players, even if he only starts 50-75% of league games due to Hudd and Luka providing a more suitable alternative. That's the key aspect of team selection in a 50+ game season - picking the most suitable team for each game, not necessarily picking the best team. Harry's adeptness in this area in our last 12 games of the season should be used to fill us with confidence over our ability to compete both in Europe and at home next season, not to undermine the role in the squad of individuals who miss the odd game which appears to be this journo's objective.

[kernowspur]

Palacios has had, since he arrived at White Hart Lane, a tendency to give away free kicks in dangerous areas, towards the end of the season he gave them away in the penalty area. It is a balance between the good defensive work he does and the problems he sometimes causes. It will be interesting to see the midfield for the first game of the season, especially with Sandro and maybe another arrival available.

[Rocksuperstar]

His brother kidnapped and murdered, a full season with no realistic backup or alternative to play his role in the middle and yet simply because he started to tire this article declares he's lost his edge and Harry wants rid of him?

Load of arse. So what if he had a dip in form, the entire Liverpool team had a dip in form for the entire season, don't see them all in the shop window.

[Kendall]

I don't think Harry lost faith in Wilson, but I was certainly glad he was left out against City in particular. Giving away 3 pens in 3 games isn't great form.

[Lilbaz]

With no CL footie and a huge debt, I think you might RSS :wink:

[JimmyG2]

Interesting article on Zonal Marking on the topic of old style midfield destroyers, the Makeleli Palacios model and whether this concept is outmoded in the new Barcelona style format with more creative midfielders as in Huddlestone and Modric.

http://www.zonalmarking.net/2010/05/04/how-the-2000s-changed-tactics-1-the-fall-and-rise-of-the-passing-midfielder/

[jimmy-jojo]

His brother kidnapped and murdered, a full season with no realistic backup or alternative to play his role in the middle and yet simply because he started to tire this article declares he's lost his edge and Harry wants rid of him?

Load of arse. So what if he had a dip in form, the entire Liverpool team had a dip in form for the entire season, don't see them all in the shop window.

Totally agree.

Is it a coincidence that his form dipped towards the upcoming first anniversary of his 16 year old brother's murder?

He'd be inhuman for it not to effect him.

[grittyspur1]

Not to mention that he was playing in incredable pain at the end of the season with a strained abductor muscle in his stomach!
There's no doubt that Wilson will be a key memeber of our squad next season.
COYS!

[Backbone87]

**removed** spam

[Backbone87]

**removed** spam

[DiscoD1882]

This is a point which I, like many others, have often made about Palacios. I have never known any other player to bring me to my feet with a teriffic tackle in one moment, only to have me returning to my seat in despair in the next due to a misguided pass.

However, he is a fantastic player and, although we won without him at Man City with a team-sheet which Harry got absolutely right, I also believe that had he played at home to Bolton we may have won that game more convincingly than we did (not that it matters). The point I'm trying to make is that there are games when Palacios' inclusion is a must, and these definitely outnumber the games when he has cost us with his clumsiness and his questionable distribution.

The media will, as always, deal in absolutes and suggest that if Palacios isn't a nailed on starter in one game then he won't be a starter at all. We as fans are smart enough to know otherwise, and in a Champs Lge campaign I think he'll restore his reputation as one of our star players, even if he only starts 50-75% of league games due to Hudd and Luka providing a more suitable alternative. That's the key aspect of team selection in a 50+ game season - picking the most suitable team for each game, not necessarily picking the best team. Harry's adeptness in this area in our last 12 games of the season should be used to fill us with confidence over our ability to compete both in Europe and at home next season, not to undermine the role in the squad of individuals who miss the odd game which appears to be this journo's objective.Zokora??

[Bus-Conductor]

Such a load cack. I expect myopic fans with no comprehension of football to come out with such nonsense but for journalists to do it is plain lazy. Palacios (83% pass success rate) gives the ball away less than Huddlestone (77%) and we generally play better as a team when he plays.

The article talks about the semi final when Huddlestone was so bad he was taken off and Palacios made a great effort to get back and retrieve a situation caused by poor defending and made a great last ditch tackle. It also talks about ManU away where Huddlestone was again poor and gave the ball away to Nani that Palacios was busting a gut to get back and retrieve. We were two one down with minutes left and Nani was clean through.

Palacios was probably the single most important player over the course of the season.

[RichYid]

I will have to disagree with Bus-conductor.

If the stats cited above are 100% correct which they could be, this is most likely down to the amount of 'incisive' passes that huddlestone attempts. Palacios more often then not plays simple 15ft passes (and for me misplaces them too often), these type of passes are far more likely to be accurate then penetrating through or over the top balls. If we compare the 'hollywood passes' ratio (to coin a phrase) , I suspect Huddlestone would be far more superior.

Our most important player over the course of the season is either Dawson or Gomes. Possibly crouch though for scoring the 40 mill goal! :grin:

Anyhoo, I look forward to next season. Nice to have the dilemma of who to play at centre mid! Wasn't sure at all who should play there for the man city game!

[garyhopkins]

I will have to disagree with Bus-conductor.

If the stats cited above are 100% correct which they could be, this is most likely down to the amount of 'incisive' passes that huddlestone attempts. Palacios more often then not plays simple 15ft passes (and for me misplaces them too often), these type of passes are far more likely to be accurate then penetrating through or over the top balls. If we compare the 'hollywood passes' ratio (to coin a phrase) , I suspect Huddlestone would be far more superior.

Our most important player over the course of the season is either Dawson or Gomes. Possibly crouch though for scoring the 40 mill goal! :grin:

Anyhoo, I look forward to next season. Nice to have the dilemma of who to play at centre mid! Wasn't sure at all who should play there for the man city game!

I usually agree with B-C but in this instance I'm with you RichYid. I don't think the article is overly critical. It seems to be pointing out that Wilson had a poor end to the season. And he did. 'arry acknowledged this and raised the point that winning the ball is great but you mustn't then immediately give it away. I'm sure Wilson will be an important member of the team next season but it was good to see that we can also play well without him.

And yes, Dawson and Gomes were our best players over the season!

[liewser]

Such a load cack. I expect myopic fans with no comprehension of football to come out with such nonsense but for journalists to do it is plain lazy. Palacios (83% pass success rate) gives the ball away less than Huddlestone (77%) and we generally play better as a team when he plays.

The article talks about the semi final when Huddlestone was so bad he was taken off and Palacios made a great effort to get back and retrieve a situation caused by poor defending and made a great last ditch tackle. It also talks about ManU away where Huddlestone was again poor and gave the ball away to Nani that Palacios was busting a gut to get back and retrieve. We were two one down with minutes left and Nani was clean through.

Palacios was probably the single most important player over the course of the season.


Refer to "Richyid"'s post below yours regarding the stats. But even if we have to use these as a benchmark does a 6% differential make wilson an effective midfield passer and huddlestone a shocking passer? To me that makes one slightly better than the other but in general terms either they are both good or both shit at passing.

Anyway ignoring the very general "passing" stats, i'm not convinced just yet by huddlestone in that i do believe he has been playing well but that I will admit (as well as many others probably) enjoy watching him for his technique, as opposed to being that much more effective in the team.

that said, Palacios does give the ball away way too much, in the simplest of situations. You can put down the rash penalties as a blip but his passing is something that has been dodge for ages.

[WhiteHart4Ever]

Sorry B-C, that stat argument made me laugh a bit, just look at the kind of passes they make!! What it does show, however, is that Palacios is a more solid passer of the ball than most people give him credit for.

Palacios has been one of my absolute favorites since he came, I love the guy and the way he has transformed our midfield. However, towards the end of the season we did seem to play better football with Huddlestone-Modric and I expect that to be the preferred CM pairing for quite a few of the home games. Still think Palacios will play the majority of the games next season but from I think the first man on the sheet in CM now is Huddlestone - what a season he's had!!

[Donki]

His brother kidnapped and murdered, a full season with no realistic backup or alternative to play his role in the middle and yet simply because he started to tire this article declares he's lost his edge and Harry wants rid of him?

Load of arse. So what if he had a dip in form, the entire Liverpool team had a dip in form for the entire season, don't see them all in the shop window.

100% the article writer should be absolutely ashamed of himself and start to live in the real world where there are other things but football. Wilson has stated he nearly quit the game all togeather due to the death of his brother, IMO its a sign of the kind of player and human being he is that he is still with us. He isn't the most technically gifted player in the world but for what we have him for he is pretty damn good. I am sure he will play a huge part for us next season.

Its times like this I really do wonder if people write shit articles just for the sake of it so they can put their name at the bottom.

[ravo]

Everyone loses form now and again. WP just happened to have his term at the end of the season... that is all. He will still play a big part for us next year.

[Gilzeanking]

I will have to disagree with Bus-conductor.

If the stats cited above are 100% correct which they could be, this is most likely down to the amount of 'incisive' passes that huddlestone attempts.

Huddlestone ? ...incisive passes ? don't think so , fabulous crossfield balls maybe..incisive is exactly what Huddlestone's passes aren't .

[gloryglory]

Such a load cack. I expect myopic fans with no comprehension of football to come out with such nonsense but for journalists to do it is plain lazy. Palacios (83% pass success rate) gives the ball away less than Huddlestone (77%) and we generally play better as a team when he plays.

The article talks about the semi final when Huddlestone was so bad he was taken off and Palacios made a great effort to get back and retrieve a situation caused by poor defending and made a great last ditch tackle. It also talks about ManU away where Huddlestone was again poor and gave the ball away to Nani that Palacios was busting a gut to get back and retrieve. We were two one down with minutes left and Nani was clean through.

Palacios was probably the single most important player over the course of the season.

I think he was the most important player in the previous season - the number one reason why after his January arrival we became a solid defensive unit. The defence and keeper behind him grew in confidence as their lives became easier. Huddlestone has also come on leaps and bounds since playing alongiside Wilson, which I expect is no coincidence.

(Note that I have never literally seen Huddlestone leap or bound - the stadium probably couldn't take it).

Subsequently, the new, more confident defence has improved to the extent that we can now cope without him - but how nervous we all were until they proved that.

In particular, I think we have shown that when Ledley plays, we can live without Palacios. Not sure we could afford to leave him out against big teams when Ledley wasn't there.

And lastly - I disagreed pretty strongly with all three of the penalty decisions. The one at Wembley was particularly outrageous.

[ethanedwards]

Interesting article on Zonal Marking on the topic of old style midfield destroyers, the Makeleli Palacios model and whether this concept is outmoded in the new Barcelona style format with more creative midfielders as in Huddlestone and Modric.

http://www.zonalmarking.net/2010/05/04/how-the-2000s-changed-tactics-1-the-fall-and-rise-of-the-passing-midfielder/
Great article JG2 and some excellent replies, will be interesting to see what formation we play next season. Huddlestone could be our most important player over the coming seasons, especially if the sweeper system makes a comeback. A lot will depend on which forwards we start with next season, we have to take advantage of the offside rule especially away from home just needs an intelligent striker with good movement.

[Bus-Conductor]

The "holywood" pass argument as farcical. Firstly Huddlestone's ability to split a defence is a myth. He provided 3 assists all season (2851 playing minutes). If it's creativity you want then Jenas is your man (2 assists in 900mins). Even Palacios is only one goal and two assists behind "Hollywood Hudd" despite playing three hundred minutes of football less than him and a far more defensive role.

What's the point of attempting the "hollywod" pass if it rarely gets there anyway ?

If Huddlestone did possess Hoddle-esque vision and ability I'd be the first to accept the compromise of his deficiencies, but he doesn't.

Redknapp had no choice but to play Huddlestone against Arsenal and Chelsea, where we definitely had fortune on our side - we had a third of the possession in each game, against ten men in one of them - Huddlestone was terrible against Arsenal and gave the ball away 15 times out of 42. Away at ManU Huddlestone gave the ball away 13 times (including for their penalty), Palacios 5. But with Palacios in the side we had more possession away at ManU (44%) than we'd had at home against Arsenal (33%) and ten man Chelsea (39%).

Against ManC again they were completely dominant for the first hour until Barry got injured and the legless Viera came on.

People seem to forget quickly the poor performances that Huddlestone has put in in games like Wolves (A), Stoke, Hull, Everton (A), Portsmouth (Cup), Birmingham(A), ManU (H & A), Arsenal (H & A). There's twenty points dropped in those games alone.

Our most consistent run of form came when Huddlestone was out and Palacios and Modric played in the middle.

[liewser]

The "holywood" pass argument as farcical. Firstly Huddlestone's ability to split a defence is a myth. He provided 3 assists all season (2851 playing minutes). If it's creativity you want then Jenas is your man (2 assists in 900mins). Even Palacios is only one goal and two assists behind "Hollywood Hudd" despite playing three hundred minutes of football less than him and a far more defensive role.

What's the point of attempting the "hollywod" pass if it rarely gets there anyway ?

If Huddlestone did possess Hoddle-esque vision and ability I'd be the first to accept the compromise of his deficiencies, but he doesn't.

Redknapp had no choice but to play Huddlestone against Arsenal and Chelsea, where we definitely had fortune on our side - we had a third of the possession in each game, against ten men in one of them - Huddlestone was terrible against Arsenal and gave the ball away 15 times out of 42. Away at ManU Huddlestone gave the ball away 13 times (including for their penalty), Palacios 5. But with Palacios in the side we had more possession away at ManU (44%) than we'd had at home against Arsenal (33%) and ten man Chelsea (39%).

Against ManC again they were completely dominant for the first hour until Barry got injured and the legless Viera came on.

People seem to forget quickly the poor performances that Huddlestone has put in in games like Wolves (A), Stoke, Hull, Everton (A), Portsmouth (Cup), Birmingham(A), ManU (H & A), Arsenal (H & A). There's twenty points dropped in those games alone.

Our most consistent run of form came when Huddlestone was out and Palacios and Modric played in the middle.


Creativity is hardly measured by assists alone, given those stats we have an incredibly uncreative midfield, which our goals scored column would illustrate definitely isnt the case.

Against chelsea and arsenal we had an early lead which we subsequently had to defend for a large part of the game and against united this wasnt the case. This could easily be cited as a bigger factor in those possession stats than palacios' absence.
And then I dont really get how you can insist with ramming stats down everyone's throat as if they provide water-tight evidence of your point against those merely using judgement and opinion, only to pull out a clear intangible in ur comment about barry in order to back it up further??

Anyways i'm not even in the huddlestone fanclub but posts like these provoke me into offering the alternate and (despite all of your stats) just as plausible reasoning. If you keep up with these stats you're gonna be known as the gordon brown of the sc soon and in the end everyone just dismissed him as a bit of a clown...

[gloryglory]

Huddlestone is our metronome. When he plays well, the whole team plays well. I think it is a misconception that football is about incisive passes - obviously this is just off the top of my head, but I'd be surprised if more than one goal in ten in the Premiership came from an incisive pass. Goals come from crosses, set plays, rebounds and errors. However, all of those are forced by the same thing - pressure. Huddlestone takes pressure off his own defence and helps us keep the ball, spreads it to open players and makes us exert pressure. And that's what he's there to do - not the defence splitting ball. He plays too deep for that.

The criticism he gets is just the same as the criticism Carrick used to get, before he left us, we went significantly backwards and his new team won three league titles in a row after a summer in which he was their only signing. Oh, and they went on to the Champions League in his second year. He must be rubbish.

And it's the same criticism Liverpool fans gave to Xabi Alonso, but again, let's look at Liverpool with Alonso and since he left - or at Real in the same periods.

There are very few central midfielders in world football who regularly play defence splitting passes - it is the hardest thing in football to do (and it takes clever strikers than we have). Outside of Barcelona, I can't think of anyone other than Fabregas who really excels in this area - although Riquelme, Deco and Ronaldinho used to.

Meanwhile, every deep lying playmaker in the world seems to be massively under-rated. There were even a large number of fans worldwide who argued that Xavi was over-rated.

[Bus-Conductor]

You are contradicting your own argument. Huddlestone is the least effective at retaining possession of all of our cm's. This is a fact. This is my whole point. We have less possession generally wheh Huddlestone plays, not more. This is based on evidential fact, not just my perception. Which is what I am trying to get across. Because he is not particularly dynamic in the movement department he is also less efficient when the opposition are in possession too.

Your statement about through balls is valid, but you have still misunderstood the context in which I've applied it. None of our CM's were particularly prolific in terms of straight assists/goals which is why you then have to say "if they are not prolific in that area then how are they benefitting the team best elsewhere.

I was responding to those providing the argument that Huddlestone is worth his poor ball retention because "he makes telling passes". He doesn't. It's a complete myth.

And therefore, if he's not a creative genius, exactly what does he offer that any of our other CM's doesn't do better. he doesn't tackle or get around the pitch as well as Palacios or jenas. He he gives the ball away more than all of them.

I am not saying he's a bad player. I'm saying that in Palacios, Jenas & Modric we have three midfielders who are individually better at the various disciplines of a CM in a 442.

I can make a case for playing Hudd instead of Modric in a 442 occassionally (but that argument is getting weaker if Palacios is there as well to graft).

Everyone completely misses the ability Palacios has to drive us offensively as well as the lung busting efforts he makes defensively.

By the way Alonso & Carrick are better players than Huddlestone. More mobile, better vision and better execution of the ball under pressure. Although Carrick could also be hassled out of his stride and Ferguson knows this and has often not trusted Carrick.

[JimmyG2]

Bus- Conductor.

You make an interesting argument but why do we need to set individuals against each other?? Why do we need to prove statistically who is the most effective player? Other than to prove an argument.

Football is a team game and we would be better off looking at pairings of players or even trios.
Huddleston and Palacios, have been almost ever present in our most successful season for years, but they have a very different skill set and role within the team.

Palacios, who was grossly over-hyped in his early days at Tottenham, performs vital tasks in confronting the opposition in midfield, breaking up their play and allowing time for our back four to cover.

Huddlestone has the ability to change the play and to deliver telling and effective passes both short and long, not just to the strikers but to the wide players who then get the credit for an assist if a goal is scored.

Bring Modric into the equation and you have another element , the ability to run with ball and link up play.

Our effectiveness this season has been in combining these elements within the team. But success depends on other players providing outlets either on the flanks or up front.

All three players have weaknesses and the trick that Harry seems to have pulled off is to combine players to minimise their faults and maximise their strengths.

Similarly with King and Dawson and Dawson and Bassong. So too with Ekotto and Bale and Bale and Modric. They make effective units rather than the best individuals.

[Bus-Conductor]

Bus- Conductor.

You make an interesting argument but why do we need to set individuals against each other?? Why do we need to prove statistically who is the most effective player? Other than to prove an argument.

Football is a team game and we would be better off looking at pairings of players or even trios.
Huddleston and Palacios, have been almost ever present in our most successful season for years, but they have a very different skill set and role within the team.

Palacios, who was grossly over-hyped in his early days at Tottenham, performs vital tasks in confronting the opposition in midfield, breaking up their play and allowing time for our back four to cover.

Huddlestone has the ability to change the play and to deliver telling and effective passes both short and long, not just to the strikers but to the wide players who then get the credit for an assist if a goal is scored.

Bring Modric into the equation and you have another element , the ability to run with ball and link up play.

Our effectiveness this season has been in combining these elements within the team. But success depends on other players providing outlets either on the flanks or up front.

All three players have weaknesses and the trick that Harry seems to have pulled off is to combine players to minimise their faults and maximise their strengths.

Similarly with King and Dawson and Dawson and Bassong. So too with Ekotto and Bale and Bale and Modric. They make effective units rather than the best individuals.

This is a far more balanced perspective and one I wouldn't argue with strongly. My opinion differs slightly but not vastly. I think sometimes I use comparisons with intended emphasis just to highlight the disparity in reality and perspective. I feel sometimes it is the only way to hammer home a message. I don't apologise for this.

But I have been at pains to point out that I like Huddlestone and feel he is a valuable member of our squad, but if articles and subsequent posters on here are going to start talking rubbish, I can't just sit idly by and let the bullshit flow unchallenged.

[ibbz]

A season of highs and lows, expected. 3 or 4 games does not a season make.
Agreed, he played poorly towards the end, but that doesn't detract from the brilliant games he's had all season long.
Whether Harry has lost faith or not is known only by Harry and possibly his missus

[DC_Boy]

hi jg - thanks for the interesting article in zonal marking

to me, the changes in the offside interpretation, the better protection given to flair players and the change to the back pass rule have all helped free up the game and give scope to the footballing mids - FIFA deserves great praise for all these initiatives and doesn't receive anywhere near due recognition for them

football was going the wrong way in many a country - eg in England where even an exceptional talent like Hoddle was continually hampered by the way the game was played- now football is on the right track again on the pitch

off the pitch is a different matter

with regard to spurs and wilson, when Gomes is in goal it's very hard to score against us from open play

therefore it's (more than ever) absolutely stupid giving away pens and dangerous free kicks (tho gomes saves most of the latter too :-)

trouble is ATM when wilson doesn't play BAE tends to, and he too suffers from indiscipline

be interesting to see the line up in our first couple of games this coming season

[JimmyG2]

DC_Boy

It was drawn to my attention by a poster called LemonadeMoney on my blog. but it certainly widens the argument about attacking and defensive approaches. It is a very stimulating site though.

Now I'm not saying we are in Barcelona's league, yet, but we are certainly share their approach by virtue of the club's and Harry's preferred method of play and history.

We may be affected at the start of the season by several players returning from the World Cup which will affect our pre-season preparations and the Champions League qualifyers which will overlap even the quarter finals of the W.Cup.

The Premiership will start in mid-August so its all going to be a bit tight and hectic.
Its vital that we qualify for the Champions' League proper and make a good start in the League.
Oh, and that our players have a successfull World CUp.

Welcome to the big time.

We don't want to let too many of our back up players go too soon. Hutton, Jenas, O'hara, etc.
Good that at least Modric and his fellow Croatians,and Bale won't be going.

Much as I would love Huddlestone, King and Dawson to make the squad in some ways it would be better for us if they don't.

[DC_Boy]

hi jg

yep the world cup will tire/injure some of our players

but we have a big squad and have to cope with that

we need to reinforce that squad too - striker and back up GK for two