JD starts

[Geez]

Source: Official Site

Jermain Defoe starts up front for England against Germany in this afternoon's huge last 16 tie in the World Cup.

The striker holds onto his place alongside Wayne Rooney after grabbing the crucial winner against Slovenia on Wednesday.

His Spurs team-mates Ledley King, Aaron Lennon, Peter Crouch and Michael Dawson are all on the substitutes' bench in Bloemfontein.

Germany (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/world_cup_2010/groups_and_teams/team/germany) http://news.bbc.co.uk/sol/shared/img/v4/world_cup_2010/liveevent/flags/wc_flags_24px/ger.png (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/world_cup_2010/groups_and_teams/team/germany) v http://news.bbc.co.uk/sol/shared/img/v4/world_cup_2010/liveevent/flags/wc_flags_24px/eng.png (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/world_cup_2010/groups_and_teams/team/england) England (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/world_cup_2010/groups_and_teams/team/england) 15:00 BST

England


01 James (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/world_cup_2010/groups_and_teams/team/england/david_james)
02 G Johnson (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/world_cup_2010/groups_and_teams/team/england/glen_johnson)
03 A Cole (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/world_cup_2010/groups_and_teams/team/england/ashley_cole)
06 Terry (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/world_cup_2010/groups_and_teams/team/england/john_terry)
15 Upson (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/world_cup_2010/groups_and_teams/team/england/matt_upson)
04 Gerrard (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/world_cup_2010/groups_and_teams/team/england/steven_gerrard) Captain
08 Lampard (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/world_cup_2010/groups_and_teams/team/england/frank_lampard)
14 Barry (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/world_cup_2010/groups_and_teams/team/england/gareth_barry)
16 Milner (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/world_cup_2010/groups_and_teams/team/england/james_milner)
10 Rooney (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/world_cup_2010/groups_and_teams/team/england/wayne_rooney)
19 Defoe (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/world_cup_2010/groups_and_teams/team/england/jermain_defoe)


Substitutes:

12 Green (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/world_cup_2010/groups_and_teams/team/england/robert_green),
23 Hart (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/world_cup_2010/groups_and_teams/team/england/joe_hart),
05 Dawson (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/world_cup_2010/groups_and_teams/team/england/michael_dawson),
13 Warnock (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/world_cup_2010/groups_and_teams/team/england/stephen_warnock),
18 Carragher (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/world_cup_2010/groups_and_teams/team/england/jamie_carragher),
20 King (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/world_cup_2010/groups_and_teams/team/england/ledley_king),
07 Lennon (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/world_cup_2010/groups_and_teams/team/england/aaron_lennon),
11 J Cole (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/world_cup_2010/groups_and_teams/team/england/joe_cole),
17 Wright-Phillips (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/world_cup_2010/groups_and_teams/team/england/shaun_wright-phillips),
22 Carrick (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/world_cup_2010/groups_and_teams/team/england/michael_carrick),
09 Crouch (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/world_cup_2010/groups_and_teams/team/england/peter_crouch),
21 Heskey (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/world_cup_2010/groups_and_teams/team/england/emile_heskey)

Germany


01 Neuer (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/world_cup_2010/groups_and_teams/team/germany/manuel_neuer)
03 Friedrich (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/world_cup_2010/groups_and_teams/team/germany/arne_friedrich)
16 Lahm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/world_cup_2010/groups_and_teams/team/germany/philip_lahm) Captain
17 Mertesacker (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/world_cup_2010/groups_and_teams/team/germany/per_mertesacker)
20 Boateng (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/world_cup_2010/groups_and_teams/team/germany/jerome_boateng)
06 Khedira (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/world_cup_2010/groups_and_teams/team/germany/sami_khedira)
07 Schweinsteiger (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/world_cup_2010/groups_and_teams/team/germany/bastian_schweinsteiger)
08 Ozil (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/world_cup_2010/groups_and_teams/team/germany/mesut_ozil)
10 Podolski (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/world_cup_2010/groups_and_teams/team/germany/lukas_podolski)
11 Klose (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/world_cup_2010/groups_and_teams/team/germany/miroslav_klose)
13 Muller (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/world_cup_2010/groups_and_teams/team/germany/thomas_mueller)


Substitutes:


12 Wiese (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/world_cup_2010/groups_and_teams/team/germany/tim_wiese),
22 Butt (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/world_cup_2010/groups_and_teams/team/germany/hans_joerg_butt),
02 Jansen (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/world_cup_2010/groups_and_teams/team/germany/marcell_jansen),
05 Tasci (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/world_cup_2010/groups_and_teams/team/germany/serdar_tasci),
14 Badstuber (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/world_cup_2010/groups_and_teams/team/germany/holger_badstuber),
04 Aogo (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/world_cup_2010/groups_and_teams/team/germany/dennis_aogo),
15 Trochowski (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/world_cup_2010/groups_and_teams/team/germany/piotr_trochowski),
18 Kroos (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/world_cup_2010/groups_and_teams/team/germany/toni_kroos),
21 Marin (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/world_cup_2010/groups_and_teams/team/germany/marko_marin),
09 Kiessling (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/world_cup_2010/groups_and_teams/team/germany/stefan_kiessling),
19 Cacau (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/world_cup_2010/groups_and_teams/team/germany/cacau),
23 Gomez (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/world_cup_2010/groups_and_teams/team/germany/mario_gomez)

[Geez]

All together now:-

SEPP BLATTER (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/european/championsleague/4975090/Fifa-has-no-plans-to-introduce-goal-line-technology-for-time-being.html) IS A WANKER!

:evil:

[mdharris]

fucking refs. first german goal looked to be offside, and england should have a second.

[sebo_sek]

fucking refs. first german goal looked to be offside, and england should have a second.
Abysmal decision and I feel for you even though I rooted for the Germans, but there is no off-side after a goal kick. Sorry.

[sebo_sek]

Oh, and the better of the two strikers gets subbed, no Lennon even though SWP showed absolutely nothing in his other appearances, Upson and no Dawson, Barry in the middle (how lazy has he become at Shitty) and Gerrard and Lampard in the same team (though Lampard at least resembled someone who gave a shit).

Rooney should have been dropped after the second game, Lampard after the second as well. Heskey never taken and Zamora instead, or even Bent - some speed and power. The sooner you let Capello go the better. He was absolutely clueless - "goal" or no "goal".

[Geez]

Putting Heskey on for Defoe :bang:

Psycho for manager :pray:

Someone who can communicate with the players

[stuffies]

me thinks they will want harry ....a man that can put an arm round then and get them fired up again...
Everything was wrong ...the whole cup.and if i was manager i would drop 90% of that team....they need a kick up the back side !!
Rooney has been shit for a while now for england ......not saying he's a crap player but plz...he should have been dropped after the second game if not the first.
Crouch,even though not my fav player has and still does have the best goal ratio for any of the players he took ..yet choosed not to use him :(
Lamps,stevie g and barry in the same team doesn not work,unless they play 5 in midfield!!
Heskey....well ain't even going down that rd.....GJ alright going forward but choose to do so too many times and leaves us short on that right hand side.
Only players to come away with a bit of pride for what they've done is A Cole and james....the rest shit or not given the chance.
The manager should quit now.....and get a english manager who knows our style and knows what is needed.And if the FA don't want harry,then i think it would be beckham (not saying i agree).
Either way we have been crap all this cup and we need some major changes NOW,not later!!

[jolsnogross]

I think it might be a good thing for England to get routed rather than have a close defeat or by moaning about the 'goal' at 2-1. But only if there's a recognition of the real problem rather than looking for a villain or blaming "little things" that Don Fabio thinks are wrong. England can't play football properly and they deserve to be out. There's no point having lots of ball chasers and tacklers if there's no one to play ball when ye have it. Some good footballers, like Hudd and Adam Johnson, were left behind for donkeys and ball chasers. Even Scott Parker can play a bit. I realise Hudd and Johnson don't exactly set the pulse racing, but at least they like to pass cleverly and dribble.

Lampard and Gerrard can't play together because there's no balance there. Playing Gerrard on the left is comically bad, given his ability as a leader in central areas. Barry was made to look the average water-carrier he is by technically gifted and quick German footballers. The sooner ye start promoting players who play possession footy, rather than picking the over-hyped and overpaid self-styled world class player from a handful of Prem teams the more chance ye'll have. Defoe's bought into the world class and great team bull as much as anyone. He needs to do more than just wander around the shoulder of the last defender and he's to get the idea out of his head that he's some sort of 'great' player - he's won nothing yet.

Germany are a joy to watch and the World Cup latter stages will be better for England's absence from them.

[tttcowan]

Im so scared there gonna come after Harry.... Lets hopethe issues with tax puts them off.

[davidmatzdorf]

I think it might be a good thing for England to get routed rather than have a close defeat or by moaning about the 'goal' at 2-1. But only if there's a recognition of the real problem rather than looking for a villain or blaming "little things" that Don Fabio thinks are wrong. England can't play football properly and they deserve to be out. There's no point having lots of ball chasers and tacklers if there's no one to play ball when ye have it. Some good footballers, like Hudd and Adam Johnson, were left behind for donkeys and ball chasers. Even Scott Parker can play a bit. I realise Hudd and Johnson don't exactly set the pulse racing, but at least they like to pass cleverly and dribble.

I agree with the first part of that. But England do have players who can "play football properly" and several of them are in South Africa: Gerrard, Barry, Lennon, both Coles, King and especially Rooney. But they didn't. And they rarely do when it's an England match, only for their clubs.

If there is one theme, for me, in the past four matches, it's not today's schoolboy defending, it's the lack of movement off the ball, the failure of men to work their way into space to receive the ball - conspicuously unlike Germany, Spain and the South American teams. That leads inevitably to the frustration of a midfielder looking for a ball and having no one to pass to. That leads to forcing an unlikely ball and that leads to a loss of possession. It isn't primarily the passer at fault there, it's the prospective recipient.

[davidmatzdorf]

If I were Harry Redknapp, I would be thinking that the England squad needs a new generation. Redknapp is about 63. By the time he could get a new, revamped England squad into a condition where it could compete with a hope of winning anything, he'll be too old.

He has a better chance of making his mark by staying with Spurs and working with a squad that he helped to assemble.

And then there's the court case...

[wakefieldyid]

If I were Harry Redknapp, I would be thinking that the England squad needs a new generation. Redknapp is about 63. By the time he could get a new, revamped England squad into a condition where it could compete with a hope of winning anything, he'll be too old.

He has a better chance of making his mark by staying with Spurs and working with a squad that he helped to assemble.

And then there's the court case...
I think you're dead right, though the next fall guy could easily be Roy Hodgson, despite his age. (It's got to be said that restoring England to good health will be far less of a challenge than getting Liverpool back into the Champions' League with no money, and in the face of their fans' unrealistic expectations.)

In 1972, I remember watching the home leg of England v W Germany in the European Championships, and the script was almost exactly the same. England came to the match with a reputation and an expectation, but were humiliated by a technically superior German team. Following that, the wheels fell off the wagon completely and we failed to qualify for the next two World Cups. It's a frightening thought....

[felmonger]

It is hardly surprising that we failed to play as a team when the most precious of our overpaid prima donnas only turn up for 'important' internationals. Before we change the manager yet again we need to nail the 'club v country' argument.

All premiership and football league clubs should be required to declare whether or not they will make their players available for international duty. If a club says 'No' then none of their players, regardless of nationality, should be selected for any international, regardless of status. If a club says 'Yes' then any of their players selected for international duty should be made available, regardless of whether the match is a World Cup game or a friendly.

If we did this then at least we would then stand a chance of building an international team where the players look as if they know one another other than socially.

[2dareis2do]

Just like to sound off about England's Abysmal world cup. It's easy to blame the players for what happened but if you are going to blame anyone, then I would blame the manager, for:

Playing Rooney for every game with Heskey as his preferred choice up front. I mean Rooney doesn't even look like scoring and his record for England is not great so why not take him off if he is not performing and try something else instead?

Playing Crouch who has a terrific goalscoring record for england for about 5 minutes.

Playing Johnson behind Lennon, who obviously does n't like to pass but prefers to get forward himself and get caught out of position.

Playing Rob Green. I mean anyone who has seen Robinson score against Green obviously knows that he is susceptible to lapse of concentration.

Not picking King for the game against Germany when he is available.

IMO the manager was extremely negative and preferred to stick with his favourites, rather than involving the whole squad and picking players based on merit rather than reputation.

[2dareis2do]

Oh, and the better of the two strikers gets subbed, no Lennon even though SWP showed absolutely nothing in his other appearances, Upson and no Dawson, Barry in the middle (how lazy has he become at Shitty) and Gerrard and Lampard in the same team (though Lampard at least resembled someone who gave a shit).

Rooney should have been dropped after the second game, Lampard after the second as well. Heskey never taken and Zamora instead, or even Bent - some speed and power. The sooner you let Capello go the better. He was absolutely clueless - "goal" or no "goal".

I think that Rooney should have been subbed for the second game and possibly dropped for the third. Not sure about Lampard as he was very unlucky not to score against Germany and giving his goal scoring record for England and Chelsea, would like to keep him in.

Zamora was ruled out as he needed an operation. However if you have Crouch in the side, I would have preferred to give him a chance too. I wonder if Capello ever though of playing Crouch and Defoe together or even Crouch and Rooney?

[2dareis2do]

I think you're dead right, though the next fall guy could easily be Roy Hodgson, despite his age. (It's got to be said that restoring England to good health will be far less of a challenge than getting Liverpool back into the Champions' League with no money, and in the face of their fans' unrealistic expectations.)

Well said.

[StokeSpur]

bet rooneys glad its all over, he didnt look a bit interested.

[Jonesey]

England were so bad it was hard to even get upset by the time Germany went 3-1 up. I'd like to think that the Lampard "goal" would have instigated a better performance from the team but I doubt it to be honest.

England's problems look much more deep-rooted than just a lack of form or fatigue. Mentally they looked like they weren't enjoying themselves at all; there was no passion, drive, determination, innovation. Technically they looked inferior to most teams I saw play at this World Cup - and I'm including the likes of Slovenia and even New Zealand who, at least played to their strengths. England didn't.

In all 4 games the team as a whole looked like they didn't want to be there, with a few exceptions (James, Lampard, Defoe ... umm, struggling to think of too many more). As for Rooney, there has got to be an explanation for his monumental lack of form AND general demeanour.

If he's still carrying that ankle injury it explains the lack of form - but at the same time, why the hell is he on the pitch if he's carrying an injury? But there must be another reason for his apparent lack of focus and desire.

I'm sure it'll all come out - but probably not until Capello moves on. One thing's for sure though, Capello clearly doesn't know how to get the best out of the players and that, combined with his naive squad selection and poor starting selections means, as long as he is in charge, England are going to be rubbish.

I'm so happy I've my Spurs and our Harry. Wish we could fast forward the next month and just get going on our 2010/11 campaign now.

[mawspurs]

Joe Cole apparently said off camera that there are serious issues that need resolving within the England camp. So it sounds as though there is more to this than meets the eye. I guess we will find out in the coming weeks.

[THFC6061]

As for Rooney, there has got to be an explanation for his monumental lack of form AND general demeanour.

If he's still carrying that ankle injury it explains the lack of form - but at the same time, why the hell is he on the pitch if he's carrying an injury? But there must be another reason for his apparent lack of focus and desire.




Time to have a close look at Wayne Rooney's Big Match Record.


Rooney has now failed to score in any of his last nine England international matches (Ukraine, Brazil, Egypt, Mexico, Japan, United States, Algeria, Slovenia & Germany).




FIFA WORLD CUP FINALS
Matches: (5 in 2006, 4 in 2010) 9
Goals: 0




UEFA CHAMPIONS LEAGUE SEMI-FINALS
Matches: 4
Goals: 0




UEFA CHAMPIONS LEAGUE FINALS
Matches: 2
Goals: 0





So that's arguably the 15 biggest games Rooney has ever played in and not a single goal to show for it.

[doom]

I think any championship team could have beaten England. Fixing the problem is not a case of changing a few personnel. There's something wrong with the way England approach major tournaments. The mindset is wrong, the tactics are naive (i.e. put in the effort and our problems are solved), the players are not in good health after a long season... all sorts of factors come in to play. I don't believe Harry would do much better, we need someone who thinks a bit differently and that man could be Hodgson, or even ex players who have had no club management experience (Beckham!) it has worked for other top nations.

[Leo]

Why play walcott and lennon for two years on the right wing to then play milner on the right at the finals? :bang:

[philbanger]

Joe Cole apparently said off camera that there are serious issues that need resolving within the England camp. So it sounds as though there is more to this than meets the eye. I guess we will find out in the coming weeks.


Sounds like Joe will be the first to release a world cup diary then. He must have spent a fair bit of time writing it on his 3 week holiday!

[davidmatzdorf]

I agree with Jonesy and doom: that the problems are about the mindset and the way we approach tournaments, also about the failure to build a team and not about the lack of quality of the individual players, nor about managerial mistakes.

I keep reading that such-and-such an England player is overrated or that they are all nowhere nearly as good as we think they are. It's not correct: these are the same players who were banging in 4 and 5 goals a game against a similar standard of opposition during the qualification. No one can tell me that Slovenia, Algeria and USA are better than Ukraine and Croatia.

These players are very good at club level and many of them have won major international honours at club level, but they cannot play with any confidence or freedom when representing their country at a major tournament. It's been the same for two decades and it doesn't seem to matter who is the manager: the players always fade away and play in an inhibited, fearful style when there is a chance to win something.

Th psychologists call it "fear of success".

[davidmatzdorf]

Why play walcott and lennon for two years on the right wing to then play milner on the right at the finals? :bang:

I see a lot of people berating Capello for not playing the men in form, for persisting with Rooney and Gerrard when they were not playing well, but you're doing the opposite. We can't have it both ways.

Walcott lost his place because his form deserted him completely. Lennon lost his place because he couldn't play effectively with Johnson.

[wakefieldyid]

Lennon lost his place because he couldn't play effectively with Johnson. ...which shows that Capello and the other coaches had lost the plot entirely. The problem was that they were trying to structure the team to accommodate one of its most over-rated and inconsistent players.

[Leo]

I see a lot of people berating Capello for not playing the men in form, for persisting with Rooney and Gerrard when they were not playing well, but you're doing the opposite. We can't have it both ways.

Walcott lost his place because his form deserted him completely. Lennon lost his place because he couldn't play effectively with Johnson.

The thing is Capello gambled big time by not creating a partnership up front that can be complemented our attacking mids, instead he just rotated strikers next to rooney. Rooney lost form/burnt out and we're left with 3 goals in 4 games in the finals.

The midfield was unbalanced, disjointed, shit at keeping possesion, probably down to Fabio not announcing his squad until 2 hours before a game, if the starting 11 don't train together how will they build a chemistry with each other. The slovienians are a much lesser footballing nation but they looked more organised than us because their gaffer doesn't fuck around with the team.

I'll berrate him which ever way i want, I waited 4 years for this, missed shifts and spent way too much on beer to watch my country play shit boring trash. I'll give him another chance, I know how great he could make our side but he has to be less stubborn, those prima donna players of his will cost him is reputation, as well as ours, unless he drops some of them properly.

[davidmatzdorf]

I'll berrate him which ever way i want, I waited 4 years for this, missed shifts and spent way too much on beer to watch my country play shit boring trash. I'll give him another chance, I know how great he could make our side but he has to be less stubborn, those prima donna players of his will cost him is reputation, as well as ours, unless he drops some of them properly.

You missed my point. Either it's good to drop players in favour of other players based on current form or it isn't. Milner played better than Lennon and Walcott in the weeks leading up to the World Cup.

If it was bad to retain Rooney and Gerrard when their form deserted them, then it would have been similarly bad to stick with Walcott and then Lennon when they weren't playing as well as Milner. Conversely, if it would have been better to persevere with Lennon and ignore Milner's good form, then it makes sense to stick with Rooney and Gerrard in the hope that they would regain their touch.

And I wasn't attacking you specifically, just making a point about we-the-fans, which is why I said that we can't have it both ways.

[mawspurs]

You missed my point. Either it's good to drop players in favour of other players based on current form or it isn't. Milner played better than Lennon and Walcott in the weeks leading up to the World Cup.

If it was bad to retain Rooney and Gerrard when their form deserted them, then it would have been similarly bad to stick with Walcott and then Lennon when they weren't playing as well as Milner. Conversely, if it would have been better to persevere with Lennon and ignore Milner's good form, then it makes sense to stick with Rooney and Gerrard in the hope that they would regain their touch.

And I wasn't attacking you specifically, just making a point about we-the-fans, which is why I said that we can't have it both ways.

The difference though David is that certain players are undroppable no matter how bad they play. As you said Walcott and Lennon lost their places, although I think Lennon took too much stick when the whole team was performing badly, because they weren't performing as they can yet Lampard, Rooney, and Terry can be invisible and still stay in the team.

I don't think Lennon did that badly against USA but had a poor game against Algeria, yet Rooney for example was awful in both games.

[Jules77]

Time to have a close look at Wayne Rooney's Big Match Record.


Rooney has now failed to score in any of his last nine England international matches (Ukraine, Brazil, Egypt, Mexico, Japan, United States, Algeria, Slovenia & Germany).




FIFA WORLD CUP FINALS
Matches: (5 in 2006, 4 in 2010) 9
Goals: 0




UEFA CHAMPIONS LEAGUE SEMI-FINALS
Matches: 4
Goals: 0




UEFA CHAMPIONS LEAGUE FINALS
Matches: 2
Goals: 0





So that's arguably the 15 biggest games Rooney has ever played in and not a single goal to show for it.

Fair point, but it would be interesting to know who well he played in those games.. He isn't solely a finisher.

[davidmatzdorf]

The difference though David is that certain players are undroppable no matter how bad they play. As you said Walcott and Lennon lost their places, although I think Lennon took too much stick when the whole team was performing badly, because they weren't performing as they can yet Lampard, Rooney, and Terry can be invisible and still stay in the team.

Surprisingly, you have also missed my point, or at least you are arguing with something I didn't say. It wasn't about the individual players and their performances. It was about being consistent: either you are in favour of playing men in form and dropping anyone who isn't playing well or you are not.

We have people here who are upset about Lennon being dropped for Milner, although Milner obviously worked better with Johnson (and who was the second choice right back?), but are also upset about Rooney not being dropped for, dunno, who, Crouch?

Forget about the individuals and whether we might have done better with X instead of Y. I'm neither defending nor attacking Capello's decisions, I'm talking about consistency and fan bias. Milner was in form and Lennon was a bit half-there. Rooney was plainly not getting it done. So it's not consistent to favour dropping Rooney and to oppose dropping Lennon.

[mawspurs]

Surprisingly, you have also missed my point, or at least you are arguing with something I didn't say. It wasn't about the individual players and their performances. It was about being consistent: either you are in favour of playing men in form and dropping anyone who isn't playing well or you are not.

We have people here who are upset about Lennon being dropped for Milner, although Milner obviously worked better with Johnson (and who was the second choice right back?), but are also upset about Rooney not being dropped for, dunno, who, Crouch?

Forget about the individuals and whether we might have done better with X instead of Y. I'm neither defending nor attacking Capello's decisions, I'm talking about consistency and fan bias. Milner was in form and Lennon was a bit half-there. Rooney was plainly not getting it done. So it's not consistent to favour dropping Rooney and to oppose dropping Lennon.

Yes I saw your point and agree with it. I was just making the observation that fans are getting frustrated because certain players are not being dropped when they should be.

I think the reasons for that are that most managers would want to keep the spine of their team intact irrespective of form because that is how they have built their team and to change that means making major adjustments that they don't feel able to risk. It is frustrating for fans though because we see a player on the bench who could make a difference and they don't get used.

[Leo]

It was about being consistent: either you are in favour of playing men in form and dropping anyone who isn't playing well or you are not.

kinda, but does it have to be as black and white as that. Would it have been that difficult to tinker with the starting 11, whist maintaing his core principles in relation to form. He had countless training sessions, a sports phycologist etc surely he could of seen some of those match performances coming?

Do you think capello will be sacked?