Do NONE of us remember last season? [Archive]

JonnySpurs

25-01-2007, 11:11 AM

We finished 5th last year.....5TH and we all know that should have been 4th! That was down to Martin Jol, do you not remember that? Last season was the best I've ever had as a Spurs fan because regardless of 91' and 99' cup wins, the league is what really counts and proves that you are the side that you are.

We did so well last year because our team chemistry and squad all just fell into place and worked at the right time, Carrick ran the show with Lennon coming through and our defence being solid and reliable.

This season, however, things are very different. We lost Carrick and even though that is not the only reason for not being as good as last season, it IS a factor. We have a LOT of new players that we are trying to fit into a system and we've been hit with some major injuries at key times, namely King and Jenas, with Berbs out early on. Martin Jol is the man to take us where we need to go so do we really have to do this same dance of ripping him to shreds when we don't win and then kissing his arse when we do. It's pathetic and needs to stop.

I truly believe that once this teams finds it's chemistry and all our players are fit, things will slot back into place and we will be back to where we were last season if not better than that team. It's a fact that we have MORE talent this season than we did have last and yet our results are not as good. For me it is obvious that this is down to not yet knowing our best lineup and even if we did we would not have been able to play it because of those key injuries and therefore not getting that consistency that comes hand in hand with playin that lineup.

Last night's game was classic Spurs from years gone by, right down to the excellent start followed by inevitable capitulation and the comeback that results. Zokora and Hudd were too flat in the middle and gave too much space and time to Fabregas. Robbo came out like an idiot for their 2nd goal and arguably would have calmly collected it had he stayed where he was. The loss of Berbs was key as for the 1st 20 mins it was simply all us and his ability to hold the ball up and link with JD is clear to see.

However, I though Ekotto had a great game for the most part, Gardner also did well aside from a shaky start. Huddlestone, to me, shows flashes of brilliance with flashes of inexperience leading to bad decisions and a lack of pace off the ball but I still believe he will be an outstanding player for us. Zokora was similar in that he clearly has the ability to hustle players and win the ball back but sometimes stands off (i.e. Arse's 2nd goal). Lennon was excellent I felt and put in 2 dynamite crosses in the 2nd half that Berbs would've more than likely been in place to tap in had he been on the pitch.

The point to be made here is get off the team's back. By the way some of our fans react you'd think we were as bad as Charlton and West Ham! Yes things are not ideal right now but they are most definitley not all bad either. The biggest problem we've had is that Ledders has been missing for far too much of the season (just look at Chelsea for an example of how losing ur captain and main centre half can affect ur form). Our defence looks nervous without King and lacks leadership, that has an affect on Robbo, hence his lack of confidence and form at the moment, which in a vicious cycle will then have a secondary detrimental effect on the back 4.

Lets open our eyes a bit fellas and stop mouthing off and looking stupid after every slightly disappointing result! Get behind the team and more importantly, get behind Martin Jol and remember how much we all used to constantly praise him and talk him up when things were going right last season.

COYS!

cwhite02

25-01-2007, 02:15 PM

Nice post.

It's certainly not all doom and gloom. We've still got a chance next week.

We still need the left winger sorted. Would be nice to see Steeeeeed moved into the centre behind the two strikers. I think he's good on the ball, doesnt lose it easily and could open more things up than zokopops.

COYS!!

Rooga

25-01-2007, 02:17 PM

Thanks. Nice to see someone with some sense and perspective.

YIDBOY

25-01-2007, 02:22 PM

DCSPUR

25-01-2007, 02:22 PM

thanks for the original post - Jol is doing fine - we are moving in the right direction COYS!:clap:

PS (c) In the Semi-Final ties, if the aggregate score is level at the end of the second game an extra half-hour shall be played. If the aggregate scores are still level at the end of extra time the tie shall be decided by goals scored away from home counting twice. If the teams remain equal after this procedure the tie shall be determined by the taking of kicks from the penalty mark in accordance with the Laws of Association Football.

Theo911

25-01-2007, 02:31 PM

wildheart

25-01-2007, 02:37 PM

:clap: Great post, well said.

I was disgusted with the Spurs 'fans' on 606 driving back from last night's game.

I was gutted, but please let's keep it in perspective.

stoddle

25-01-2007, 02:39 PM

great post

bigspurs

25-01-2007, 02:41 PM

Just keep deluding yourself...

stoddle

25-01-2007, 02:52 PM

about what?

Ryan

25-01-2007, 02:52 PM

We DO remember last season which is why we're so disappointed this season.

ollie_spurs

25-01-2007, 02:55 PM

YIDBOY

25-01-2007, 02:56 PM

well said bigspurs. so many people on here just dont see it. i swear, in a years time all this Jol lovers will be calling for his head coz we aint gonna progress under him.

JonnySpurs

25-01-2007, 03:02 PM

Slightly dissapointing result.......thats an understatement! What you mean is ANOTHER very dissapointing result.

I'm telling you here and now that Martin Jol is a phony, he is DEFINATELY NOT the man to take us where we want to go and more and more people are realising this. This is HIS team, HIS tactics, HIS responsibility. We have a very talented squad and i know that someone else could get much more out of them. He is not bringing the best out of them. He cannot influence a game with tactical changes or subs.

Sorry guys, he isn't our saviour.

Who is then cos you clearly know better than the rest of the world does??

It was HIS TEAM, HIS tactics and HIS responsibility that got us to 4th/5th last season so forgive me if I don't sign up to your way of thinkin, all seems a bit too depressing for me!

YIDBOY

25-01-2007, 03:05 PM

too right mate it is fucking depressing! you keep smiling and telling yourself that spurs are the best team in the world!

Anyway, last season was last season, what good is that now????

JonnySpurs

25-01-2007, 03:12 PM

Good post, in that people have gone over the top but this reaction towards jol has been building all season. He has brought it on himself with the over-catious approach away from home. I wonder if he is aware of how his standing amongst some of us fans is beginning to be questionned.

A big miss from last season which has been largely overlooked in your column is Edgar Davids. Although out of position on the left, he brought a bit of experience to our midfield. Problem was, he only did it for half a season. After that, it was no coincidence that his loss of form coincided with the teams poor return in the second half of the season.

I defo agree with that actually and one thing that we didn't pay attention to last night was that even tho Arse had SOME inexperienced youth, the large majority of our side had never played in a semi-final before, Robbie Keane had once before when he was 18 for wolves and he was a sub! Keano is one of our most experienced players and even he would have found it all fairly new last night.

We do lack a leader and thats what Ledley is, one way or another he instills confidence in our entire side, can't wait til he's back! All the homes games we've had this season that we have lost have been without him, says a lot!

Meds

25-01-2007, 03:15 PM

I am just intrigued to find out who exactly the naysayers think would do a better job of rebuilding Spurs than BMJ?

We had a season full of promise last year, but let's not forget that success was on the basis of 40 games all season. Ipswich had a great season and then got relegated. Everton qualified for the Champions League, then got knocked out before it even started and are now back in mid table.

The point is - sometimes mid table teams over-achieve for a season, and sometimes they set in place foundations for future success. Are we the former or the latter? I like to think that last season was a stepping stone to a better things - and the next step is for us to undertake a full season (cup runs and all) and actually get some silverware. That has to be the obvious next step as we cannot challenge for the championship already, and that is what we're aiming for.

I just hope some of the 'Jol's a prick' brigade will be back on here the morning after we win the UEFA Cup to beg forgiveness.

Rooga

25-01-2007, 03:24 PM

Two of my best mates are Leeds and West Ham fans. I'm sure they'd give anything to be top half of the premiership, last 16 of the UEFA cup, semi-final of carling cup (scores level and second leg all to play for) and playing at home to Southend in the fourth round of the FA Cup.

Last season we overachieved in the league because that is all we had to play for. We had no chance of winning any Silverware from the begining of January 2006. Now it's almost the end of 2007 but still in with a shout in 3 cup competitions.

Some people seem to have short memories. Last season was our best EVER finish in the Premiership. We could still finish in the top 6 this season.

Yeah the team's not perfect, yes Jol does make tactical erorrs (find me a coach who doesn't), and yes we are very much still a work in progress. We're still a long way off the quality of the top 4 (don't be fooled by Arsenal's underachievement last year), but of the remaining 16 teams in the division, I'd say our future looks the brightest.

Rome wasn't built in a day, Alex Ferguson didn't have a great start at Man Utd but luckily for them the board stuck by him despite fans calling for his sacking. I'd rather we had now than the dross we had 2 or 3 years ago. People's expectations were raised after last season, we just need to be more realistic/patient.

mumbles

25-01-2007, 03:30 PM

It could be said we did rather well last season because we only played forty games, having been knocked out of both domestic cup competions in the first round. leaving us to concentrate solely on the Prem.

infamousyiddo

25-01-2007, 03:32 PM

smashing

25-01-2007, 03:33 PM

Lasagne........Dein.........Typhoid mary!

oh yes, we remember last season!

now lets take it to the Emirates and do unto them what they so richly did unto us last season.

COYS!:)

vigospur

25-01-2007, 03:41 PM

The hard truth is that even if things go well it is going to be at least another season (and probably another one after that) before this team is on the same planet as the "big four." Makes it even more frustrating that we have taken our eye off the ball in the Prem (e.g. resting Lennon last weekend). Just look at the record books and see which teams win the FA and Carling Cups. A top 6 Prem finish (and European football next season) should have been the priority this season and I don't think it has been and I think MJ must take some of the blame.
And I really worry that we don't appear to have one youngster who can freshen up the team. Villa, Blackburn and Newcastle have all done so recently. With mixed result I know but they are likely to be better players as a result. Spurs Acadamey results - zilch.

adamsilver

25-01-2007, 04:19 PM

Jol is excellent, most our players individually are excellent but sometimes Jol chooses the wrong tactic/player etc.

vietnam1973

25-01-2007, 04:20 PM

look its becoming a frustrating season but lets evaluate at the end of the season, im less than happy with the current form and im worried we wont end up with anything at the end of the season but lets not go over the top, i cant believe people are saying jols a phoney and they want him gone, fuckin hell hes only been in charge less than 2 full season i suppose, theyd be happy if we still had players like sinton, wilson and scott, fuckin get real fools!

walworthyid

25-01-2007, 04:51 PM

too right mate it is fucking depressing! you keep smiling and telling yourself that spurs are the best team in the world!

Anyway, last season was last season, what good is that now????

I thought that to be a FAN of a team you were supposed to think that your team was the greatest team in the world?

I have obviously got it all wrong!

There is not a manager who is perfect, bmj was brought in as a number 2 and since he has taken over we have had the best sequence of consistent results in almost 20 years. We are missing our most influential players and have been plagued by injury all season.

Regarding away games. The tone for the season was set at bolton. We conceded a goal from a corner when it was clear that davenport was held back, we then conceded another goal from a 35 yard strike that was unstoppable. This was followed by games at pool and man u as well as scumville and reading. While I agree that his tactics have been negative do you not think that this has something to do with injuries? The players lacking confidence? The players not being able to put his plans into action as they did at pompey? Or man city? Man u? Reading (for the first half)? The players must also take responsibility and there is no reason to believe that any other manager in the same circumstances could have made a significant difference.

Still in 3 cup competitions, in a decent position to challenge in the league, the best young squad we have had in years, I'll take that!

tommyt

25-01-2007, 04:57 PM

Just keep deluding yourself...
rcassit

YiddoJames

25-01-2007, 04:58 PM

:clap: Great post, well said.

I was disgusted with the Spurs 'fans' on 606 driving back from last night's game.

I was gutted, but please let's keep it in perspective.

I was also listening to 606 on the way back from the match last night and agree with you. Unbelievable nonsense some of them came out with! It's always the same on phone ins though. Clearly, Berbatov going off was disastrous. Once he had, we couldn't keep the ball up front. It's all very well saying Mido should have come on instead of Keane but he's not fit and has been generally ineffectual when he's played this season. When Jol played Keane on the left against Chelsea people were saying he was a tactical genius, now he's a fool. It wasn't the right move last night and arguably it hasn't worked in other games it's been used in, bar chelsea, but this kind of extreme switching of views is crazy. Like the article says, people need to find some balance in their opinions. It seems too often that people look at everything as black or white and ignore the shades of grey in between.

DoublePivot

25-01-2007, 05:02 PM

Yeah last season was great. But we might have been 3rd or higher if it wasn't for...

West Ham draw on 90th minute goal at home
Sunderland draw on 89th minute goal on the road
Fulham loss on 90th minute goal on the road
Arsenal draw on 84th minute goal (albeit sketchy) on the road
10 Points lost in the last 5 minutes of games
and lets not forget the FA shame of being up 2-0 to lost to Leicester.

And yesterday with a 2-0 lead we get drawn by the reserves of our most hated rival.

Shit ain't roses. And this is a disgraceful trend. I'm not saying fire Jol, he has his strengths and the team has done well, but I sure as hell ain't in the mood to give him the benefit of the doubt any longer. He has things to prove, that he didn't before, such as brass and tactics. So maybe it's time you Jol lovers get your head out of the clouds and start rightfully questioning what he's doing. He deserves the respect of a coach who has done the team proud, but he doesn't deserve the reverence of a legend.

alfiespurs

25-01-2007, 05:07 PM

To me it now is evident thsat it was a fluke we got 5th last season. Quite simply, lets get back to basics, we really lack a true leader on the field, as someone mentioned we have great players, but they lack the menatality of 'winning'. This will come through time and expereince. But yesterday, I have to compliment Wenger for his belief and tactics for the Game. Jol, great guy, excellent mana manager BUT do question his tactics and reading the game. Yesterday, illustrated the gap between a 'class side' and Spurs. We still have a long way to go ...

Yidatron

25-01-2007, 05:25 PM

All this jol bashing is over the top. We all want to make the step up to becoming at CL team, but, can any of you honestly say that, player for player, we are better than manu, arsenal, chelsea or liverpool? It will take time to bridge this gap and I really can't see how changing coaches is going to make any difference. As Jol repeatedly says, we dont have the clout to buy the 26 y/o gerrards of this world, so we have to try and pick them up earlier in their careers. This need to develop youngsters inevitably means that we are not yet the finished product, and wont be for some time. But we will never get there if we get frustrated after a few years and decide to change horse mid-stream.

ziggy

25-01-2007, 05:38 PM

Nice post, Jol IS the man to take us onwards and upwards, christ with the rubbish we've had to put up with over the years you'd think we'd have a bit more patience. Some would have us sack him and get back on the new manager every 2 years merry go round. Stability is very important, just look at the shakey start Fergie had at UTD what would have happened to them if he'd been sacked ?

JKSpurs

25-01-2007, 05:47 PM

I get pissed off with my football team from time to time when result don't go my way, but what frustrates me even more than the odd poor performance is the attitude of some fans.. Some people are just so negitive and i get the impression there the sort of people if we were winning prem and champ lge titles, they would be the ones saying that its not good enough we are not playing the spurs way !!

people moan about the fact that the team backed off last night and looked shaky... I'm not surprised, can you imagine being in a ground with 30 thousand spurs fans going mad singing dancing for 35 mins then when it looks like we are under pressure they go quite and obviously worried about conceding before half time. Then they come out a half time and the fans are going mad again making loads of noise then all of a sudden there is a little bit of pressure and they score the fans go quite and all of a sudden people are think please do throw this away, i know whats going to happen, etc etc. That must feed down to the players and make then jumpy and nervious..... The point i'm trying to make is if you want perfect performance from every player every game we need perfect performance from the fans every game. That means signing your hearts out and making as much noise as possible for 90 mins come what may.

COYS

UncleBuck

25-01-2007, 05:54 PM

Last season was a strange one! Ok, so we achieved our highest finish in the league for ages BUT our bread & butter, the cup competitions, we were an embarrassment!

In the league we started to faulter towards the end of the season and no one capitalised on that, well, until the final game of the season. If arsenal had put a run together they would have probably finished 8 points clear of us.

Last season we only had to play 40 games, even Charlton & Watfor will surpass that this season! This season we've already played 36, are still in all the cup comps, and althought not in the European places in the League at the moment we are only 3 points off them, having been rather indifferent with our form.

Our most important player, Ledley King, has been missing on and off for nearly half the games we have played this season, and therein lies our problem....

Taking all the above into consideration we are currently experiencing a better season than last year, although it doesn't seem like it!

Every manager makes a balls up from time to time, they are only human after all, what makes a manager is how he reacts to it and LEARNS from it!

Going back to last night I am sick & tired about hearing how good the arsenal "kids" are so I decided to do some math......last night we had an average age throughout our 16 man squad of 24.87 with a total average of appearances of 56.75. The goons had an average age of 22.43 with a total average of appearances of 38.34. Not much higher are we?

I then decided to do the same thing with the Liverpool squad that got thumped by them a couple of weeks ago and they had an average age of 25.81 with total average appearances at 144.62.

The future is bright for the club, make no bones about it but what us supporters want is a bit of consistency, this will only come with experience and as the above stats show that is something we are lacking in!!!

onthetwo

25-01-2007, 05:57 PM

Look at the following list....
Zokora, Hudd, Davids, Murphy, Jenas, Tainio, Ghaly.

I think we all agree that Hudd and Jenas have potential, but after that, I'm not sure that the rest are good enough to get us into the Champions League. Steed looked good first half last night, and if Ledders is fit, we should be better at the back. We need a leader in the middle of the park stop us getting overrun, particularlt away from home.

BigAl

25-01-2007, 06:00 PM

Hit the nail on the head Jonny. King and to a lesser extent Jenas have been sorely missed. I think we have enough talent to break the top four it just a matter of staying fit.

How many games have we lost were the lineup was as follows=

Robo
chimbo king dawson ekotto
lennon hudd/zokora jenas malbranque
defoe berbatov

I am hard pressed to find one.

Are you for real?

Name one game where this has been the starting line up..... bare in mind Malbranque only started playing this year, Ekotto was dropped after the Arsenal shambles, Jenas has been injured for months and Hudd only started playing when Jenas was injured.....

THFC53

25-01-2007, 06:01 PM

Good post?? Yes we had a good season last year, but you can hardly say that he doesnt diserve criticism because of that.

Sir Alex Ferguson's position was in question a couple of years ago despite his great success. Arsene Wenger has been questioned on occasions by ARSEnal fans.

Jol got us 5th. Doesnt mean he's immune. Personally, i think the weaknesses in our team, ie our vulnrebility away from home, traditional crap 2nd half performances, are infact down to the manager. If this was the first time that we said we fel apart in the 2nd half, or our toothless away performances happened once in a blue moon, then i'd be the first to tell any people criticising to fuck off, i love Jol and i wouldnt want anyone else at the helm. I desperately want us to succeed with him in charge. He's made to be a Spurs legend.

But i do think that he needs to wake up a bit. I mean, bringing on KEane for Berbatov and changing the system to the one we lost 3-0 with at the Immigrants is plain ignorance. A quarter of the gfam in and Jol and his players had setteld. And if the players sat back with their own initiative, then as a manager, he ought to have brought the likes of Ghaly on to show he's not to be fucked with. But the fact that he didnt do so, proves that yes, Mr Jol was happy for his team to try and keep the game at 2-0 and try and sit back against a deadly side (who werent youngsters ffs) with our dodgy back 4 and questionable keeper.

Just consider a few things before posting a post criticising poeple who are questioning Jol's management. It's their right since Jol has made MANY tactical misjudgements that have cost us dear this season. . .

YIDBOY

25-01-2007, 06:04 PM

thought that to be a FAN of a team you were supposed to think that your team was the greatest team in the world?

I have obviously got it all wrong!

You have got it wrong. I'm the biggest fan there is and i want Spurs to be the best so i dont delude myself into thinking they are. If everyone thought like you we'd be mediocre forever!!!

badders

25-01-2007, 06:08 PM

To me it now is evident thsat it was a fluke we got 5th last season.

Wrong. No such thing as a 38 game fluke mate, we were by far and away the 5th best team in the league last year. The table doesn't lie after a full season, and the team in 5th deserves to be there.
Unfortunately though, these things are all reset for the next season and you are only as good as your last result/performance.

Sure I'm a little dissapointed by yesterdays result and the season so far in general, but I'm also not one of the morons proving once again how fickle a bunch of supporters we truly are.
Lets look at our position.
Uefa cup - Last 32 at an absolute canter. This has been the platform for some of our better performances this season, perhaps proving that the foreign lads in the team are not quite up to speed yet with the frenetic pace of the prem.

League 9th I believe, and after Man Utd next weekend we have a run of 5 games which include Reading, Sheff utd and Watford which are all winnable and could put us up in the mix again.

League cup and Fa Cup, still in there and fighting, very very fortunate draws so far, but we beat the teams in front of us didnt we?

Jol a legend? No, not yet. Jol make errors? Yep, just like they all do. Sack Jol and bring in someone else? First of all, who?? Second of all, why? Because we're not 1st/2nd/3rd/4th? Because we didnt smash Arsenal last night? Because we've had a few indifferent results/performances? Someone said that Jol was perceived as a genius when we switched to 4-5-1 and beat Chelsea and then perceived as the opposite when we switched to the same and had one against the Arsenal last night. Get real. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesnt. He could have bought on Mido, but he has proven that he simply isnt upto it at the minute, and then if he had bought on Mido and we had lost, surprise, surprise, the moron brigade would be questioning why we didnt bring Keane on and switch to 4-5-1 like "that time when it worked vs chelsea".

Can I also point out one more thing. Yes, we played Arsenals "reserves", but Arsenals' "reserves" are a team that have bonded together in this tournament, smashed Liverpool last time out and are labelled as the future of Arsenal for a reason. Included in the team where these "deadweights"

Almunia - Blinder in the Champions League final
Hoyte - Decent right back
Traore - A very promising left-back, looks like he will be as good as Cole & Clichy. Not sure where Arsenal keep finding them.
Toure - One of Arsenals first choice CB's
Senderos - Mostly average IMO
Fabregas - One of the best footballers in the world
Denilson - No mug, 3.5M for a kid means he is something special, and last night he showed glimpses
Walcott - Another very promising young player. 6-10M wasnt it?
Diaby - Decent CM
Aliadiare - Average
Baptista - Cost Real Madrid upwards of 12M little over a year ago.

Lets make one thing perfectly clear. Arsenal are better than Tottenham. By an absolute mile. I don't like it. You don't like it. But its the truth. For twenty minutes, our near enough first team (missing King & Jenas) were 2-0 up playing some sexy stuff. They deservedly clawed it back, and hopefully it is something we will learn from.

All in all though, some of you guys need to get real, I don't know why I constantly come on this board cos some of the comments embarrass me.

(Oh and alfiespurs this post wasnt a pop at you mate, even though I quoted you at the beginning!)

paxton_soul

25-01-2007, 06:11 PM

The dissatisfaction with Jol is premature:

-We are playing infinitely more attractive and skilful football than we have done for a decade.

-All management teams require time and perseverence to get things right - there are so many variables that are out of a managers control that performance can suffer, but over the long term a consistent coaching model from a manager who has a willing motivated squad will start to show results.

-Who, oh wise ones, is a available who would be better than Jol?

-A new manager means turmoil - inevitably he will want to bring in players he trusts (great - more new faces!) and disenchantment from currently committed players - so bye bye Lennon, King et al.

-We are still in a solid league position - AND WE ARE STILL IN THIS FECKING CUP TIE!!!!

-This team definitely needs a strong leadership personality to maintain momentum and instil belief on the pitch. Ledders ain't that man.

DC_Boy

25-01-2007, 06:18 PM

Of course I remember last season - I remember us winning the double, so last year's not much of a problem :-)

I would say we are doing roughly as well as last season at the moment - if we win a trophy we'll have performed better than last season - if, as is likely, we win nowt - then probably this season will be a little worse, but I doubt by much

UEFA Cup has been great, but I don't care if we don't qualify for it by the League next season, it gives us more ability to deal with the domestic trophies.

Yes, I want us to finish as high in Lge as possible - but if it's 7th or 8th, UEFA/no Uefa - i'm not going to lose sleep over it

If I sincerely thought good players would turn us down because we're not in next season's UEFA, I would change my mind - but I doubt it's the case.

StokeSpur

25-01-2007, 06:24 PM

It was HIS TEAM, HIS tactics and HIS responsibility that got us to 4th/5th last season so forgive me if I don't sign up to your way of thinkin, all seems a bit too depressing for me!

It was also his team and his tactics that got us humiliated v Leicester and Grimsby which left us out of the cups with less chance of injury and fatigue, which could also explain our good run and league possition last season.

I am not anti Jol and i dont want him out but i will question his tactics some times, people like you who wear rose tinted glasses and constantly cover up the cracks would cheer us all the way down to the conference but i like to look at the bigger picture.

calv

25-01-2007, 06:27 PM

Good article.

This is all a load of b*llox. If we had hung on (ie. the ball didn't drop kindly to Baptista or Robbo didn't make an error in judgement), no one would be mentioning how sh*t we are. Even though I admit the 2nd half performance was dissapointing and in the end we didn't deserve the win. But the scum did play out of their skins and I don't expect them to match that level of performance next week. We should have King, Rocha, Berbatov (for a full 90 mins), Jenas & Davids to choose from by then. It's all level, we've still got an awesome chance to get to the final.

We are currently a top six side (hopefully better in a couple years), which means one season we could scrape 4th (or 5th like last season) and the next finish 8th or 10th. It doesn't necessary mean we are getting worse. Last season we got off to a good start and confidence was high, that coupled with an easy fixture list of 40 games meant we exceled. We've done incredibly well in all the cup competitions this year and I still think we are very capable of finishing 6th in the league.

BRING ON THE 2ND LEG!!!

In Jol we trust.

SMW1985

25-01-2007, 06:39 PM

There are some people on this site who just need to get real. Never in the past 15 years has our squad been so good. Never in the past 15 years have we played such good football. I struggle to believe that BMJ is coming in for it from some fans. I believe these fans are determined to undermine our chances of ever achieving success. It seems that way anyway. Do we really think that bringing in a new manager is gunna be the solution? If you do then you obviosuly don´t know very much about our recent history. It doesnt work. Now if those of you who constantly criticise are in fact fans of this great team, then damn well get behind them for a change FFS.

paxton_soul

25-01-2007, 07:18 PM

[quote=THFC53;266513]

Sir Alex Ferguson's position was in question a couple of years ago despite his great success. Arsene Wenger has been questioned on occasions by ARSEnal fans.
quote]

Yeah - and they were idiots too....No one is saying Jol is above reproach. What we are saying is that he has got to really screw up before he should be booted out.

A new manager will emphatically NOT sort us out and would cause a massive setback...and no doubt yet more whinging.

Look at David Moyes - one great season was followed by a disaster and the board kept faith and now they are starting to come back again and Moyes is proving why they appointed him in the first place.

Overall direction at Spurs remains on the upward...all that is required is for players and fans a like to grow some fucking balls, stop crying and get on with things - because this spurs team are very capable indeed, they just need to grit their teeth a bit more.

That means matching the physical challenge of teams that want to unsettle us and realising that holding a lead means stopping the other team from playing and not dropping off

dirtydave

25-01-2007, 07:27 PM

am i the only person who thinks we look better than last season.
we did not deserve 4th or 5th last season-no one did, we had a so many, by the odd-goal, dodgy wins, great luck with injuries and the rest of the league was terrible last season too.

at least this year there is some competition between portsmouth, everton, villa, bolton, blackburn, newcastle even reading.

the football we play is better, i see most games and we definately pass it better, we are getting better and better.
i do acknowledge the need for strength on the left, but other than that, we are a faster, quicker, more intelligent unit everywhere else.
which is why i genuinely believe we will win some silverware this season, because we are getting better as the season goes on.

just give it time, our luck has dried up at the moment but there is more to this team than last seasons.

tomo

25-01-2007, 08:24 PM

Well i've sobered up now from last night when in a mini fit of rage I gave Jol grief. I still stand by what I said.

I can't see much any progress from last season.
We are far too inconsistent.
Our league form is shocking considering the money we've spent. Too Negative.
Cup's are Jol saving grace this season. In the UEFA we look fantastic. However, I'd rather be challenging for fourth in the league than Carling cup semi's.

I love Jol as a bloke and still think he can turn around. I having my first doubts about him though

Spursfect

25-01-2007, 08:43 PM

Last season we did over achieve, I have no doubts about that. However, having achieved this in his first full season we as fans, rightly so, expect more and this hasn't happened.

I would never advocate getting rid of BMJ cos he is, arguably the best manager since El Tel but tactically El Tel he is not. Who do we suggest comes in if we get rid of him? Whoever he is will have his own ideas which means more squads ins and outs, which in turn means more transition.

Believe it or not fellow fans we are STILL IN TRANSITION.

The side that played yesterday: Chimbonda, Malbranque, BAE, Thudd, Berbatov, Zokora - All new regulars.

Big Tony - bit part player, will never be a regular

Lennon - still 19 yet we are relying heavily on him as our star player

Robbo - not up to his normal standard (7 yr contract - is he still hungry????)

Dawson - is it me or is he beginning to look jaded?

No Ledley - Our best defender, who when playings brings confidence and stability to our team. May not be the most vocal of captains but is definitely our LEADER.

Defoe - No service no player. He cannot play upfront on his own and never will be able to.

Keano - First long game back since injury and looked like it.

Berbatov - our catalyst.....when he went off any potential chemical explosions became failed experiments (did sound good in my head, not so good on the screen).

Last season we were not as badly disrupted by injuries as we are now.

Taking all of that into consideration I am very happy with our season. We still have weak areas not only in the team but also in our squad, which I am sure will be addressed.

BMJ is still learning how to manage a BIG club, who has he managed before???? I for one think we have the best man for the job, he just has to learn from his mistakes and ensure that our young team continues to learn also.

Last season we were a dour side now we are a little more like the Spurs of old. But like the Spurs sides of the recent past we have a soft mentality that needs to be hardened and that comes with experience.

Lets not be fickle fans, criticise by all means, express your feelings, but never be a 'booer' be a SUPPORTER.

Let's cheer our boys onto SPURFERCTION!!!!

COYS

WorcesterSpur

25-01-2007, 08:51 PM

At half time yesterday, I bet the Jol bashers wouldn't have said what they're saying above. The Ars**** fans were sending messages to Five Live saying things about Wenger which are appearing here about Jol. A couple of mistakes is not a disaster, just very frustrating.

I totally agree with the original post. We are heading in the right direction and we all want success. The problem is that some of us aren't willing to wait. I've waited a long time and if it takes another year or two, I don't care. We're on the way up and as long as that continues, I'm happy.

Still annoyed about last night, but I'll get over it. Remember, we can still win - It ain't over yet.

JoeT

25-01-2007, 08:52 PM

Walworthyid: I beg to differ with your definition of a fan as being someone who thinks that their team is the greatest in the world. That just dosen't hold water, and if you truly believe that you will always be disappointed. A fan - in my opinion - is someone who sees the faults in their team....and criticises some aspects of their team if necessary (it's their right to do this if they are financially suppoorting them). But the bottom line is that they support the team through thick and thin.
And I have to tell many of you on this site that I found some of your posts yesterday to be so vicious and personal - towards each other - that I was truly shocked. With so many terrible things going on in this world, how can someone justify wishing that somebody else would be dead?....over a game of football!
Yesterday's game made me disappointed, just like many of you, but hey let's keep things in a little perspective please.

tomo

25-01-2007, 09:20 PM

The problem is that some of us aren't willing to wait.

Still annoyed about last night, but I'll get over it. Remember, we can still win - It ain't over yet.

Most of us have been waiting all our Spurs supporting lives.
Yeah but we probably won't win it. Seen it too many times before. Valiant defeat gets you nowhere

somersetyiddo

25-01-2007, 09:30 PM

cant believe some of u r saying jols not at fault he's the toss pot that says keano n defoe cant play together so wots the dick do brings on keano yeah mido's been injured but he wuda had his big/small man partnership that he loves better to keep that he cuda changed it if not workin thats wot subs are 4...!

Y o y r some of u sayin we're still in 4 comps best make that 2 we're fcuked in lge til we can win away n no way we'll do the filth at cash burden!!

davidmatzdorf

25-01-2007, 11:02 PM

dcarney75

25-01-2007, 11:07 PM

Perspective needed I think...

Jermain Defoe
Dimitar Berbatov
Aaron Lennon
Ledley King
Michael Dawson
Tom Huddlestone
Steed Malbranque

Vs...

Moussa Saib
Paolo Tramezzani
Ramon Vega
Chris Armstrong
Jose Dominguez
Helder Postiga
Toda

Yes, there has been the odd Rasiak, and the Carrick offer was simply too good to turn down, but it really doesn't take MI5 to work out that there has been progress made. Yes, last night was annoying and no, we're not Champions' League standard, but the time to judge Jol is in 2/3 years, not in January of his second full season in charge. What we need now is stability, a keen eye for emerging young talent (which I believe we have - would Hoddle/Graham/Francis have got Lennon and Hudd?), and patience on the fans' behalf, although I acknowledge the last of these can be difficult sometimes.

But building a successful football club with genuine, sustainable talent at all levels and flicking a switch are, and will continue to be, two very different things.

COYS!!

hongkongyid

26-01-2007, 05:18 AM

Best post by a country mile, well said.

Wrong. No such thing as a 38 game fluke mate, we were by far and away the 5th best team in the league last year. The table doesn't lie after a full season, and the team in 5th deserves to be there.
Unfortunately though, these things are all reset for the next season and you are only as good as your last result/performance.

Sure I'm a little dissapointed by yesterdays result and the season so far in general, but I'm also not one of the morons proving once again how fickle a bunch of supporters we truly are.
Lets look at our position.
Uefa cup - Last 32 at an absolute canter. This has been the platform for some of our better performances this season, perhaps proving that the foreign lads in the team are not quite up to speed yet with the frenetic pace of the prem.

League 9th I believe, and after Man Utd next weekend we have a run of 5 games which include Reading, Sheff utd and Watford which are all winnable and could put us up in the mix again.

League cup and Fa Cup, still in there and fighting, very very fortunate draws so far, but we beat the teams in front of us didnt we?

Jol a legend? No, not yet. Jol make errors? Yep, just like they all do. Sack Jol and bring in someone else? First of all, who?? Second of all, why? Because we're not 1st/2nd/3rd/4th? Because we didnt smash Arsenal last night? Because we've had a few indifferent results/performances? Someone said that Jol was perceived as a genius when we switched to 4-5-1 and beat Chelsea and then perceived as the opposite when we switched to the same and had one against the Arsenal last night. Get real. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesnt. He could have bought on Mido, but he has proven that he simply isnt upto it at the minute, and then if he had bought on Mido and we had lost, surprise, surprise, the moron brigade would be questioning why we didnt bring Keane on and switch to 4-5-1 like "that time when it worked vs chelsea".

Can I also point out one more thing. Yes, we played Arsenals "reserves", but Arsenals' "reserves" are a team that have bonded together in this tournament, smashed Liverpool last time out and are labelled as the future of Arsenal for a reason. Included in the team where these "deadweights"

Almunia - Blinder in the Champions League final
Hoyte - Decent right back
Traore - A very promising left-back, looks like he will be as good as Cole & Clichy. Not sure where Arsenal keep finding them.
Toure - One of Arsenals first choice CB's
Senderos - Mostly average IMO
Fabregas - One of the best footballers in the world
Denilson - No mug, 3.5M for a kid means he is something special, and last night he showed glimpses
Walcott - Another very promising young player. 6-10M wasnt it?
Diaby - Decent CM
Aliadiare - Average
Baptista - Cost Real Madrid upwards of 12M little over a year ago.

Lets make one thing perfectly clear. Arsenal are better than Tottenham. By an absolute mile. I don't like it. You don't like it. But its the truth. For twenty minutes, our near enough first team (missing King & Jenas) were 2-0 up playing some sexy stuff. They deservedly clawed it back, and hopefully it is something we will learn from.

All in all though, some of you guys need to get real, I don't know why I constantly come on this board cos some of the comments embarrass me.

(Oh and alfiespurs this post wasnt a pop at you mate, even though I quoted you at the beginning!)

hongkongyid

26-01-2007, 05:23 AM

.................and when will people learn to type properly instead of all this 'text messaging' type shit.

I can recommend a good football team for you - and people like you - to support.

Millwall.

I wonder what it's like being inside the head of someone like you.

YIDBOY

26-01-2007, 11:30 AM

Somersetyiddo might not have put his point over too eliquently but he's spot on with his comments.

worcestersauce

26-01-2007, 02:15 PM

I rememer a thread probably a couple of years ago which said that while we were mediocre we at least knew what to expect and we adjusted our expectations accordingly, that way bad results, and there were loads, never quite devastated us. It then gave us a warning that we were getting better and so we'd start hoping for more and the better we got the more we'd want and when that happened it would be a whole nother roller coaster and that we'd better get used to the greater pain that comes with greater success they go hand in hand.
Well it's here now and that thread was right! this is what it's like folks and we'd better get used to it again, just think how much better it will be if we can win the 2nd leg.
Someone earlier said we're not as good as the big four and won't be for another 2 years, well, put another way that's like saying that we'll be as good as the big four in two years time which I think is realistic but we will get these knock backs along the way. Just Keep the Faith!!