I am a Spurs Fan! Get me outta here!

[Spurfection]

Deep breath, oooooh-aaah.

I have to admit, sitting here now trying to keep a level head is very hard, very challenging.

I've just seen my beloved team turn in a terrible performance. So bad in fact I was almost cheering on O'Shea's heroics in goal. I am gutted, disillusioned, heartbroken, lost and most of all in need of answers and guidance.

Sure this is Spurs worst performance in a very long time, am I right in saying since Newcastle whopped us by many goals a few moons ago? The difference and the problem is, this is not that same crap Spurs side since then or ever in the last 10 years! this is the strongest team since Gerry made a half decent go of things. We (Spurs) should not be this bad! We are not like some (I am not going to make the same mistake as Benitez) of the evidently 'smaller' teams in the Premiership, we are truly giants who have lost our way.

When I was sat in that bar in Egypt on the 5th of November I thought Levy's Spurs had come of age, my head was swimming and images of the glory glory days that had so often been recollected in front of me had started to appear. Then came the Reading game. Since then (apart from European games) Spurs are not the team I saw only just lose out on a Champions League place by malicious poisoning/sheer bad luck (delete as applicable).

What to do? what to say? How to feel? I need guidance. Please St Nicholson! Help me!

I've never been one for knee jerk reactions and I've always been a supporter not a critic. I was an Ericsson supporter for England and I felt dumping George Graham, Spurs most successful manager in 16 years (FACT), was very harsh and out of order. But I have looked at some of the 'Jol Out' posts that have popped up over the last 8 months and laughed them aside as some joke.

But as the old saying goes, every joke has a kernel of truth.

Something is very evidently wrong at the moment! I will try to be as straight forward as possible at the moment to avoid having my points of view dissected and disapproved of.

I see four reasons why my Lillywhites are not cutting it.

1. Jol, tactical naivety. This issue has popped up a lot recently.Spurs always seem to take the foot off the peddle when they don't need to! Spurs is a good team. A VERY GOOD TEAM! we should not be losing a 2-0 lead to a bunch of kids that to be honest have been losing to our kids for the last 2 years!!!! I get so incensed when I see Spurs sit back deep and defend when we should be pressing the advantage.

2. Ledley, Ledley IS our defence, since Ledley has been out our defence has suffered immensely. we have had 10 goals scored against us in the last 4 matches. Shocking when you take into account we never lost by more then 2 goals last season. Without his leadership, our back line has been all over the shop and field! We need solid stability.

3. Left sided player. No comment.

4. A special player. Or lack of. Apart from Jenas's contribution we don't have a player that can step up to the mark and make the difference when it counts, think Gascoigne, Ginola and such. We need that player who can polarise the team and help focus our goals on the pitch, the sort of person that is there for every spot kick and dead ball. Tottenham's legendary style dictates that need.

I am sad, and very angry. We should not be here at this point commenting on negative things but there are definitely issues and they need to be sorted before this entire season disappears without trace.

Please Spurs, sort it out.:-(


Glory Glory Tottenham Hotspur.

[bigspurs]

I didn't think that the team as a whole played that badly, considering the humiliating scoreline. Lee surprised me!

I am in complete agreement with you on every other point though!

Our painful inability this season to create anything from set pieces is really depressing.

[dontcallme]

This is the sort of post i really hate.

Berbatov missed 3 clear cut chances and Keane missed two one on ones. To be honest Man U didn't miss that many. The result was horrific the performance was far from it. We were playing the best team in the country at the moment who are desperately chasing their first title in four years, they were completely ruthless and a class act.

1. Jols tactical naivety is the same that won us our first league game against Chelsea and yesterday tactics had nothing to do with our defeat.

2. Ledley is hugely important, remember Man U falling apart when Rio was suspended and Chelsea have really struggled defensively without Terry. When you have a defensive master naturally you miss him when he is out

3. Left sided player, we tried to sign Downing but failed, Ziegler, Routledge and Davids haven't cut it this season. Malbranque was our best realistic option and while he's regaining fitness you could try supporting him.

4. While as a fan we love our special players, Jol is trying to build a team where everyone does their bit and give it time and we'll start to play as a team.

Remember we bought Zokora, Berbatov, Malbranque, Chimbonda and Ekotto this season and it's Huddlestones and Ghalys first season as a first team member of course the team will struggle to gel.

Sorry to be harsh with your post but not the kind of over the top nonsense I want to read on a MOnday morning

[RBlanch]

This is the sort of post i really hate.

Berbatov missed 3 clear cut chances and Keane missed two one on ones. To be honest Man U didn't miss that many. The result was horrific the performance was far from it. We were playing the best team in the country at the moment who are desperately chasing their first title in four years, they were completely ruthless and a class act.

1. Jols tactical naivety is the same that won us our first league game against Chelsea and yesterday tactics had nothing to do with our defeat.

2. Ledley is hugely important, remember Man U falling apart when Rio was suspended and Chelsea have really struggled defensively without Terry. When you have a defensive master naturally you miss him when he is out

3. Left sided player, we tried to sign Downing but failed, Ziegler, Routledge and Davids haven't cut it this season. Malbranque was our best realistic option and while he's regaining fitness you could try supporting him.

4. While as a fan we love our special players, Jol is trying to build a team where everyone does their bit and give it time and we'll start to play as a team.

Remember we bought Zokora, Berbatov, Malbranque, Chimbonda and Ekotto this season and it's Huddlestones and Ghalys first season as a first team member of course the team will struggle to gel.

Sorry to be harsh with your post but not the kind of over the top nonsense I want to read on a MOnday morning

For f*cks sake - what ever way you dress it up, we got spanked 4 - 0 at home. It was not a close game...it wasn't even a contest. We are shit.

And I can't believe any one can defend Jol's tactics...Lennon moved to the left for the second half for what must be the tenth time this season. So far it has worked once, against Southend. Everyone else can see it doesn't work, and yet that is his only tactical move...playing against us must be a walk in the park for oppostion managers. Everthing is so predictable.

[Wiener]

As you say, it is difficult to keep a level head given our run of results since the end of last year. Trying to do the same myself I find it difficult to agree with much of your analysis.

To address your points:

1. Sure Jol has made some mistakes. But overall he has still delivered the goods. We are a young inexperienced team and I think we need to wait to the end of the season, before we start to draw conclusions about Jol's "tactical naivety". I still believe we can finish top 6 but it will be hard. I think European football, and a respectable finish in the league are a minimum requirement.

2. I agree Ledley is key to our team, and his injuries have cost us dear. Additionally we have had injuries to key players throughout the season, and we simply don't have the depth in quality or experience to deal with these setbacks.

3. I don't see this as the most important issue. Yes it would be nice to have an out-and-out left-sided winger, but this is not the cause of our problems nor the solution to it.

4. I am not sure what you mean here.

Do you mean a "leader" type player, with mental strength. If this is what you mean, I agree that we lack someone like this. I would argue Carrick fulfilled this role for us last season, by always being composed, positionally aware and ready to take responsibility. We have been unable to find someone to do the same. Zokora, the so-called "maestro" has been disappointing.

If you mean flair players, whose individual brilliance can change a game, I would argue that is not what we are lacking. We do have special players. I rate Lennon and Berbatov very highly. They can make things happen. Additionally I would say Defoe, Malbranque, Huddlestone are special players of the type you mention. The type of players our tradition demands.


I would agree that we are in a rut right now, but I believe Jol has shown enough ability in the past to take us forward from here.

I believe our problems are as a result of:

- us having a young and inexperienced team, lacking leadership and grit in midfield (but not quality),

- the loss of key players, ie King, and to a lesser degree Jenas to injury.

Criticising Jol is pre-mature. I believe most of the pieces are in place. We need a couple of good results to get confidence up and turn this around.

[chico]

Fella, whilst getting stuffed 4-0 anytime is a stinker , whoever the oppo., we've been very unlucky with injuries throughout the season . It's a young and inexperienced side ,losing Ledley our Captain and arguably our best player , has been a major blow. At various times we've been without JJ , Lennon ,Berbatov , Keano , and Carrick departed . It's hard for Hudd, Zokora , Chimbo , Benoit etc to settle in to an ever-changing line-up and team lacking confidence . Stability is what is needed . I think Dawson's form has improved and he has been awesome in the last few games, which is a plus. This season we need to play through the disappointment of the league 9 (vs expectation) , try to do well in the FA and UEFA CUP'S, and build for next season. Dont panic and KEEP THE FAITH

[18Klinsmann]

The scoreline yesterday is one that will torment us for quite a while, but I really don't think the performance was that awful. For the first half we matched them well, although their class was beginning to drive us back. The penalty decision, and the relentless spell of pressure in the first 10 minutes of the second half, buried us completely. At 0-3 you rarely look good, but again we just missed out on a consolation goal and were left with what looked a more emphatic defeat than it really was. The scoreline flattered the reds and only Huddlestone and Defoe failed to show up in my opinion.

The current United team is very, very good. Naturally we should not be losing by four goals to any team in the world, but it can happen when you play a team of real winners that both influence the ref and really make the advantage count when they have mometum. Just think about how many times this season we have dominated teams for long spells without killing them off. Well, United kill you off when they get the chance.

Perspective: Since the Newcastle defeat it has ben obvious that our chances to finish 7th or higher were very slim indeed. The defeat yesterday was not unexpected, but finally made 7th look unlikely. We should now focus really hard on beating Fulham and progressing in the cup that remains the most obvious return ticket to Europe. The next three games will finally make or break our season, unless we pull off what currently looks like an unlikely UEFA Cup triumph. As an experienced supporter of the club I am beginning to brace myself for a possible dead end season with the potential sources of success gradually fading. However, in the unlikely event that we win the next two league games and make it past Fulham, the dreadful result of last night will be a distant memory.

[walworthyid]

I think you do have some valid points but as the previous poster said there are also some elements that are wide of the mark. We have only been diabolical twice this season and that was away at the scum and at home to everton. The rest of the time we have been either avarage away from home, great in patches at home or very very good.

The game yesterday hinged on the penalty, before that we gave as good as we got and should have been in front. Had we got the goal our play deserved it is a different game. It is difficult to fully understand the effects of losing that goal before half time, particularly after the dissappointment of wednesday night.

All of that aside man u were excellent in the second half and we simply had no answer and got caught chasing the game.

I don't think that any of that was bmj's fault. What did he have on the bench?

We lack a player that can link play in the middle it is as simple as that. When we get the ball we do not use it well because we are forced wide because nobody wants it in the middle. Players are not encouraged to make runs, to move or to gamble. Thus we lack fluidity.

At the moment I am in a place that I do not like, I can bet you that many of the players and bmj in particular are in a place that is far worse. We can all go about our daily lives and hope that the next game will be better, they actually have to make that happen.

If we were to sack bmj now we would take 10 steps back, I believe that we are far better than we have been for years, results at the moment are not showing this, but they will.

[Hartfelt]

dontcallme, I agree with you about our performance against United...but.

When we lose against the top four I don't mind too much. When we lose or draw with poor sides, however, I mind a great deal. The failure of our young team to put sides away has cost us a lot of points. As much as Ledley is our rock, we shouldn't simply usher in oppositions without him. Daws has been tremendous, but he has far too little support from the midfield (yes, it is a Carrick-shaped hole I'm talking about). Robbo is still trying to find some form. There is no captain on the field. There is no belief despite all the talent we have.

Now it's not as if our gaps haven't been recognised, as you point out. We've pursued a left-sided player for over a season now. Still no result. Rocha was bought to bring in another quality CB. But let's just say we had a decent LW and that Rocha does step up to the mark. On paper that makes our team balanced. But here's where my concern kicks in.

Jol is not tactically innocent. What he is, is tactically cautious. Our defensive 'money in the bank' mentality, once we score, is strangling our results. Sit back city is where we are and it's not working because we simply don't possess the defensive strength to hold onto a lead. I suspect we've blown our chances of Euro-qualification via the league, and it has nothing to do with losses against better teams, one of which was yesterday's spanking.

I'd like to see Jol risk losing a lead by pressing up more. Those who say we lack creativity are wrong. Berbs, Lennon, Malbranque, Jenas, Keano and Hudd all have creative aspects to their game. In fact our creative ability is stronger than our defensive credetials. We should tear Sheffield apart. But we won't.

Yesterday, I sat in the stands listening to Utd singing to us, 'This is how it feels to be City.' Will the real Tottenham please stand up?

[YIDBOY]

We are shit and Jol is fucking useless. We are going backwards and he hasn't got a clue how to stop the rot. Surely even the "Jol can do no wrong" brigade can see that. Its all gone very horribly Pete Tong. Look at Uniteds passing and moving. They taught us a footballing lesson. We are so dull, negative and static, and we hoof it far too much. Its not the Spurs way and fucking pisses me off.

[amie278]

this is our best squad of players since i started supporting spurs yet we are below shit teams in the league like reading, newcastle, portsmouth and everton. if jol is not to blame i dont know who is. jol out.

[somersetyiddo]

we r shit time 4 jol to admit he's done all he can n fuck off b4 r total season is fcuked

[khop145]

Posted this earlier in another thread...

Hate it but must admit having a bad feeling... We might finish around 10th and loss in both cups run in later stage: QF, SF... Then no Europe football next season. We might hold on those good players (Berb, Chim etc.) for another season but likely not able to attract other good players to join. How do we get better of next season with only current group of players hang on? I don't know as I'm not a football manager nor know well in football management, but obviously something need to be done soon to rectify this bad situation where the morale is very low among the players and fans get frustrated... Anyone has better advice?

[khop145]

Ramon Vega under me?! Shit...

[mancman]

I agree with most of the comments but i would like to stress how football results (even 0-4) depend a great deal on luck. When Newcastle beat us 2-3 Newcastle were BLOODY lucky in fact some of the football we played that day was fantastic. The United game (whilst there is no denying United are a class act) could easily have gone our way. Conceding just before and after half time is always fatal but the times the ball was just inches off when we attacked suggested to me that on a 'lucky' day we could have scored SIX. If you don't believe me get a video of the game and just watch where the ball lands in the UNITED penalty area. On so many occasions UNITED were just plain lucky. I personally think that United have the best defence in the Premiership and it says a lot about SPURS wrt the possible number of goals we could have scored. Don't underplay the extent luck plays in a game. I guarantee some future matches will see us get our fair share of luck. Beating MAN U in the FA CUP final 1-0 scored by a deflection in the 90th min after United had hit the bar 7 times. Also Seville will rue their misfortune going down 3-4 to a 'lucky' Spurs in the EUFA cup final.

MANCMAN

[Moorechild]

Essentially, we are missing Carrick. Yes Huddlestone might one day be better than him but he blatantly isn't now. What Carrick gave us was an outlet. To use a rugby analogy, he was our fly-half. Every time we got the ball it got fed to him and he made the decision about whether to play long, short, through the middle, down the wings or go on a run. Huddlestone doesn't yet have the confidence/nous/training to do this and the other's in the team either aren't looking for him to do this or he isn't making himself available. Zokora is a headless chicken at times, and much as I rate Malbranque and Keane as individual talents, they aren't playing in a system that can hold it's shape when they go for a wander and so we are exposed by the holes they leave.

Jol should stay but I really think we need an arsehole in the back room staff or on the team to give them a bollocking when we go a goal down. Bring back Graham Roberts as Mr Motivator!

[N10toN17]

The problem I see with the side is a lack of balance and players playing out of position. Steed is never going to be truly effective on the left hand side, he's an attacking central midfielder who can get into the box score and create, or he should play in the hole in a 451 formation - this is what he did at Fulham and was arguably their best player. Too many players have played out of position for us this season - Ghaly and jj and Teemu on the right etc etc. While watching Manusa toy with us yesterday it was noticeable how well balanced they were Giggs and Evra down the left, Neville and Ronaldo down the right, Carrick sits and Scholes has licence to go forward support the strikers and get on the end of chances (which he did). We had Tom and Zokora basically doing a similar job, neither is going to hurt the oppo in the box. Comolli and Jol have to address having only one wide man on our books as this is hurting us badly. 2 lefties and a back up for Lennon must be the priority in the summer and getting the right combo in the centre of midfield and we will go places. For this season I'm still hoping we can do something in the Uefa. Coys

[Happy_Yid]

The scoreline yesterday is one that will torment us for quite a while, but I really don't think the performance was that awful. For the first half we matched them well, although their class was beginning to drive us back. The penalty decision, and the relentless spell of pressure in the first 10 minutes of the second half, buried us completely. At 0-3 you rarely look good, but again we just missed out on a consolation goal and were left with what looked a more emphatic defeat than it really was. The scoreline flattered the reds and only Huddlestone and Defoe failed to show up in my opinion.




I agree with the above statement and would like to add another. Does Wenger play Henry at right back? No. Does Fergie play Rooney in Goal? No. (a bit extreme I know) So why do we continue to play our best attacking midfielder Lennon on the left where his obvious skill and talent are only half as good. His best and by far most profitable place is on the right as we know. If Ghaly or anybody else cannot play on the left so be it,buy someone who can, but please leave our pocket sized dynamo in his best position.

[Insomnia]

We are shit and Jol is fucking useless. We are going backwards and he hasn't got a clue how to stop the rot. Surely even the "Jol can do no wrong" brigade can see that. Its all gone very horribly Pete Tong. Look at Uniteds passing and moving. They taught us a footballing lesson. We are so dull, negative and static, and we hoof it far too much. Its not the Spurs way and fucking pisses me off.

sir,you are a prick

[Freddiehotspur]

Now that's a word i haven't heard in a while. What we will hear before our next game is,

Keane: We haven't won there for a while, but we're full of confidence

Robinson: We didn't play too badly. It was just a bit of bad luck

Jol: Sometimes these things happen, and it might or might not happen again

Dawson: The boys are really feeling low at the moment.

Seriously, i can't see any of the players in our squad picking us up before our next game. What the hell is happening to our defence? Where is the pressure, tactical awareness, crossed runs, overlaps, dribbles, We are likely to let in 2-3 goals every single game, independent of opposition.

They are weak characters, the lot of them.

[YIDBOY]

Insomnia.......explain yourself, you ****. Go on, tell me Jol's a brilliant a manager and what we're watching every week is fucking amazing. Open your eyes you mug.

[infamousyiddo]

poor result to say the least!!!!!! We have to stop the rot and soon otherwise we will lose ground on the teams above us.

the thing that gets to me most is the lack of fight and desire when we go behind, no matter who we play once we go beind there seems to be an acceptance of defeat. We BADLY need a player on the pitch who demands the ball and takes the game by the scruff of the neck!!!

[marion52]

How long do we say Malbranque will be ok when he is back to full fitness level!! He's had long enough.
What we need is a player to take the team by the scruff of the neck and give it a go. We lost 4-0 it can't get any worse!
Just give it a go , our next game at Sheffield Utd is almost a six pointer lose that and we can be the team that drops like a stone into the relegation battle.
Fight Spurs -fight.

Is this the same team that went how many games unbeaten at home till a scrappy defensive error let 'pool have a lucky win.

Lets get behind them for the rest of the season then, and only then, will we know if Jol is the right man to take us forward.

COYS

[RickyVilla]

Insomnia.......explain yourself, you ****. Go on, tell me Jol's a brilliant a manager and what we're watching every week is fucking amazing. Open your eyes you mug.

I facking hate people like you who come out and say things like that after a defeat. Was he useless last season? Well was he? Try engaging your brain and looking at things rationally before posting such utter tripe.

[JKSpurs]

I thought we were unlucky yesterday. The penalty was a joke, albeit they should of had a earlier one as should of we. The ref was a crap, and if you looked at the stats after the game we had a good few chances and plenty of possesion. Man U broke down the game with lots of tactical fouling and could of had a number of players dismissed for 2 yellow's if the ref wasn't so Sh1t.

All the twats on here calling for Martin Jol to be sacked. So imagine he's does go, where then? Who would want to come to spurs that would do a better job ?

[RBlanch]

I facking hate people like you who come out and say things like that after a defeat. Was he useless last season? Well was he? Try engaging your brain and looking at things rationally before posting such utter tripe.

Unfortunately there are lots of opportunities to criticise Jol at the moment as every game is a defeat.....

And was he that great last season? Out in the 1st round in both cups?

Arguably he was still playing with a squad he inherited....he has now had a full opportunity to make his own signings and we have gone backwards.

[JKSpurs]

:clap: sir,you are a prick

[Wiener]

Man U broke down the game with lots of tactical fouling and could of had a number of players dismissed for 2 yellow's if the ref wasn't so Sh1t.

I agree with the above. Scholes, Rooney, Neville and to a lesser degree Ferdinand were the main culprits. Virtually every time a decision went our way, 2 or 3 Man U players (Neville always in there) harassed the referee. These are extremely effective tactics employed by both Chelsea and Man U (clearly part of Mourinho's and Ferguson's plans) to intimidate referees. When you pit a bunch of mediocre and incompetent officials (the FA and referees) against a bunch of unscrupulous but successful pros (Mourinho, Ferguson and Kenyon) I guess there is no contest.

Having said that I was extremely disappointed by the way spurs dealt with the thuggery. Zokora in particular should hopefully will learn to deal with it. I don't mean retaliate. I mean simply to stand up to them and show no fear. These are classic bully boy tactics.

[YIDBOY]

I tell you what there are some seriously deluded idiots on here who think they're so fucking clever. I bet most of you sit at home watching the match in your armchair thinking "we are unlucky", and deluding yourselves into thinking that Jol will get it right in the end. Unlucky....... it was FOUR NIL ffs!! Add to that our pathetic away form, dull unadventurous football, tactical ineptitude, lack of bottle, and lack of fight.

I'm sure MOST of you are nice people but you have blind faith. You cant see whats really going on.

[RickyVilla]

So what is really going on Yidboy. Enlighten us

[RickyVilla]

Unfortunately there are lots of opportunities to criticise Jol at the moment as every game is a defeat.....

And was he that great last season? Out in the 1st round in both cups?

Arguably he was still playing with a squad he inherited....he has now had a full opportunity to make his own signings and we have gone backwards.

Having our most successful season in a while points to him being a decent manager. Nowhere have I said he is infallible but I think he is good and thats my opinion as yours is he ain't that great. Opinions are like arseholes mate. Everyone has one

[DCSPUR]

I'm glad that we have a lot of sensible posters to counter act the gloom brigade on the boards.
We weren't a disaster and those who think they do need to blooming well learn how to analyse a game before posting comments like "Jol out."
I think Fergie pregame got it right - patience will be rewarded for Spurs.
PS I'd love to see Spurs just once get a dodgy penalty and then have the ability to hack the crap out of the opposition all game with no sendings off and only a couple of yellows....

[YIDBOY]

If you cant see it for yourself Ricky, then as i say, you have blind faith and are deluded.

[roguepsi]

This 'article' is an embarrassment. I knew it was a load of shit as soon as a read that it was 'our worst for some while'. Clearly the author was busy doing some gardening and just saw the scoreline because this was the most even 4-0 I've ever seen. Had Spurs been favoured by Mr Battenberg and also been as efficient as Utd, we could've easily seen a 4-4 draw. As it happens, our lack of clinical finishing meant we scored none. That was the only difference between the two sides.

[RickyVilla]

Read my last thread YB. I see him as a good manager better than we have had in a long time. If he is sacked now we go through another 2 years of transition. All I am saying is give him a chance. I don't have blind faith I just believe he is a good manager. Why does it have to be you either hate him or love him. If things do not improve then yes I will want him out but we are still in the UEFA and FA cups so all is not lost. Try a bit of optimism. I know it is difficult after a result like yesterdays but put a bit of perspective into it. Anyway, who would you replace him with who would realistically come to the Lane?

[infamousyiddo]

Read my last thread YB. I see him as a good manager better than we have had in a long time. If he is sacked now we go through another 2 years of transition. All I am saying is give him a chance. I don't have blind faith I just believe he is a good manager. Why does it have to be you either hate him or love him. If things do not improve then yes I will want him out but we are still in the UEFA and FA cups so all is not lost. Try a bit of optimism. I know it is difficult after a result like yesterdays but put a bit of perspective into it. Anyway, who would you replace him with who would realistically come to the Lane?



great post villa, i have had a few debates with YB, stubborn guy lol.

but seriously!! last week i asked the "we want jol out" fan club who would REALISTICALLY replace jol and do a better job than what jol has supposedly failed to do......someone said get mourinho.....:roll: :rofl: ....NUFF SAID!!!!!!

[YIDBOY]

I'm sorry but he is not a good manager, a lovely bloke yes, a good manager no. The best we have had in along time? I disagree with that also (but lets be honest, we haven't had one top manager since TV). But Jol has got the best squad of players, he's spent the most amount of money, has been the best supported by the board but we are no better or worse than we were under GF or GG. Its the same story with Jol, a relatively good first season and then decline. I'm sure that by the end of this year the majority will want him out.
Tactically inept, cannot influence a game with subs/tactics, dull un-adventurous footy (esp away), very negative etc even against 10 men (3-4 occasions). How is he a good manager? I just dont understand how you can say that.

[YIDBOY]

i'm not stubborn, i'm just always right!!!

[infamousyiddo]

I'm sorry but he is not a good manager, a lovely bloke yes, a good manager no. The best we have had in along time? I disagree with that also (but lets be honest, we haven't had one top manager since TV). But Jol has got the best squad of players, he's spent the most amount of money, has been the best supported by the board but we are no better or worse than we were under GF or GG. Its the same story with Jol, a relatively good first season and then decline. I'm sure that by the end of this year the majority will want him out.
Tactically inept, cannot influence a game with subs/tactics, dull un-adventurous footy (esp away), very negative etc even against 10 men (3-4 occasions). How is he a good manager? I just dont understand how you can say that.


knee jerk fan!!! how many times last season did u come on here and say "well he's a good bloke, but a shit manager".....i bet NONE. now im not saying that certain results this season has nothing to do with jol because they have, and sometimes his tactics have been negative, but that doesn't make him a shite manager over night. this season we have had no luck with injuries with King, Berbatov, Keane, Lennon, Jenas, Tainio, Zokora,Malbranque all missing for a period. How many times have we played our strongest 11 this season??????Robbo loss of form has also dented team confidence this season IMO. Taking all these factors into account, coupled with the fact again IMO we over achieved last season (which raises fans' expectaion) is no reason to say get rid of jol because if we do it will set us back further.

ROME WASNT (WASN@T) BUILT IN A DAY YIDDOS. PATIENCE IS A VIRTUE

[easiman]

I love you guys - a well balanced view - a big chip on both shoulders.
Actually I can understand both extremes, and the grey in the middle. I guess its better to have a view, and be prepared to share it, than not.
Me - well I don't think we were unlucky, we were well beaten over the 90 minutes. Equally, as hard as it is at the moment, we have to back MJ and give the whole team more time to settle / heal. I don't think wholesale changes are the answer, sure we need to strengthen. I guess what worries me the most, is no European Football next season, financially and for the attraction of players.
Let's win a few, then consider what next.........

[t-baggins]

Simple... Jol has the best squad at his disposal, and has been shite recently! Imagine Hoddle with this lot? How can one say so often he doesn't rate Defoe and Keane then play them in our most important match to date?
In fact how can anyone rate Defoe full-stop. He is wank! Lazy, weak selfish striker... who can do a job for a team with decent wingers, but for spurs if a f *cking liability! Lee was wank yesterday too. Only due to luck not skill did Ronaldo not take the piss anymore, and their 3rd goal oozed class/ and Lee was at fault!
Nothing wrong with Malbranque... he would make most squads so no need to slate him, as our retarded coach plays him out of position, and he does plenty of work defensively... in fact I think I saw him put more tackles in yesterday than Huddlestone has all season! Huddlestone good player but too young, and proved this yesterday! Never turned up and subsequently spurs mudfield never took control! Lennon on the left??? Madness! Berbatov looked lively and was guilty of suffering from just one of those days! Battled hard right till the end, and I was impressed... as I was with Ghaly! Not sure why you fans dont rate him... came on and setup a gift straightaway for Berbatov... When did Lennon, Lee, Chimbonda cross the ball in like that yesterday? Get off his back and let him do his thing... its his first season and has been one of our standouts in my opinion. I wouldn't like to see Jol out yet as theres noone to replace him... but would have liked O'Neill... Oh well cant win them all!!!

COYS

[RickyVilla]

I have to say it has been a pleasure in this thread to have a debate without people getting personal and throwing insults(except Insomnia but we know he likes to wind people up ;-)) If only this could happen in more of the threads. Good work fellas!

[db1]

I don't care if we lose all our games- I still love the club. Even if I am one of those negative posters at times like before the game where I predicted a 4-1 loss which ended up generous. Being negative doesn't mean I don't love being spurs. Prefer it any day to being one of the glory hunting little buggers all over the country supporting teams in cities they've never been to. (that means you all you 'ive supported manu/ liverpool all my life brigade)

on another note- anyone fancy us getting some grit from Gravesen??? (if he wanted to come here)

[Dezzydez]

Can everyone take time to read the translated Jol interview on the front page, it will throw some perspective on all the Jol bashing on here. The team is not performing too well at the mo, but there are so many factors and variables to consider.

We miss a leader, another proven creative player, at least one potent striker and our new/young players still have alot to learn. Extra games

However painful I am still keeping the faith until next season.

[Jonesey]

I agree with most of the comments but i would like to stress how football results (even 0-4) depend a great deal on luck. When Newcastle beat us 2-3 Newcastle were BLOODY lucky in fact some of the football we played that day was fantastic. The United game (whilst there is no denying United are a class act) could easily have gone our way. Conceding just before and after half time is always fatal but the times the ball was just inches off when we attacked suggested to me that on a 'lucky' day we could have scored SIX.
MANCMAN


I can't remember the last "lucky day" we had. Winners create their own luck; we are not a team of winners yet and until we are we will struggle with our consistency.

Our best hope is in the UEFA Cup as the European game seems to suit our style of play. If we go out of that competition and lose to Fulham away in the F.A. Cup we should really start worrying because I can't see us picking up many points in our next 3 Premiership games.

Then it will really feel like we've gone backwards this season.

[Jonesey]

Having our most successful season in a while points to him being a decent manager. Nowhere have I said he is infallible but I think he is good and thats my opinion as yours is he ain't that great. Opinions are like arseholes mate. Everyone has one


Let's take a reality check here though ... we clearly punched above our weight last season and lost quite a few games we should not have.

We didn't beat any of the 'big 4'. We went out of both cups in round 1 to lower league opposition. We were relatively lucky with injuries. Bolton and West Ham played better football than us for most of the season while we adopted the long-ball game for much of it.

That said, we're still in Europe and the F.A. Cup so let's hope the lads can do something in either of those two competitions because it ain't happening in the Premiership with a record of 2 point from the last 5 matches and two away matches in a row coming up against Sheffield United and Everton.

[RickyVilla]

Punching above our weight or not we had a good season and part of this leads back to our manager. Anyway we could go round in circles all day debating about this so lets just beg to differ mate. COYS

[Corfe_Yid]

I agree with the above statement and would like to add another. Does Wenger play Henry at right back? No. Does Fergie play Rooney in Goal? No. (a bit extreme I know) So why do we continue to play our best attacking midfielder Lennon on the left where his obvious skill and talent are only half as good. His best and by far most profitable place is on the right as we know. If Ghaly or anybody else cannot play on the left so be it,buy someone who can, but please leave our pocket sized dynamo in his best position.[/quote]


Fergie has played rooney on the left on a number of occasions as has henry (I think) for the scum. I dont think BMJ has many options who plays on the left its either Steed or Lennon. So he decided to change them over for the 2nd half.

There should have been 4 pens in the game yesterday and only one was given. Gardner got away with the one on Larsson and I know the other was a dive but remember Zokora against Pompey. Not much went our way yesterday luck wise and ref wise (still trying to work out how Scholes was on the pitch after 4 of the most blatent yellow card tackles I've ever seen) and we played against the team (I think) who will win the league.

Look at the chances we missed and the score line could have been a lot different.

We're lacking in confidence at the moment and need a result to kick start our season again and soon.

[Insomnia]

Insomnia.......explain yourself, you ****. Go on, tell me Jol's a brilliant a manager and what we're watching every week is fucking amazing. Open your eyes you mug.
well you proved me wrong there didnt you,you prick

[hellava_tough]

Let's face it, taking the last 15 years, if we were a retail company we'd have gone out of business a long time ago. The amount of money spent compared to the success is laughable. In the private sector if you're a manager for a leading company you've got in the region of 6 months to proove yourself. Too be fair to Jol he proved himself last year, but seems to have slipped somewhat this year. Again, in the private sector if you start well, but a year later are not cutting the mustard you're out. i'm not saying that Jol should be sacked instantly, but come the end of the season I'd like him to have achieved the same results as last year, or better.

I'm sure that everyone on this forum would expect an employee to maintain, or else improve, on their standard of work.

[yiddopaul]

Read my last thread YB. I see him as a good manager better than we have had in a long time. If he is sacked now we go through another 2 years of transition. All I am saying is give him a chance. I don't have blind faith I just believe he is a good manager. Why does it have to be you either hate him or love him. If things do not improve then yes I will want him out but we are still in the UEFA and FA cups so all is not lost. Try a bit of optimism. I know it is difficult after a result like yesterdays but put a bit of perspective into it. Anyway, who would you replace him with who would realistically come to the Lane?
I agree, Jol without doubt is a good manager and even has the praises of sir alex (or do some of our fans presume to know more) Once the players are picked and on the field then its down to them to give 200% every game, and i'm pretty sure he tells them that.

I actually think that this year is going to be extremly important in our future success, not if we get into europe or win this cup or that cup, but actually seeing out this tough period and KEEPING our manager, something we have not done in 2 decades. What we are going through now I believe WILL make us a stronger team. After all, you gain experience not just by winning things and playing nice football, but (and IMO more importantly) in adversity, as that is what builds character.

But the above will only apply if we keep faith with our manager. Undoubtedly we have a squad of very talented individuals who haven't suddenly become bad players, and will get it right

[ultimateloner]

I don't understand the disappointment.

In the last week we lost against 2 of the strongest teams in the world.

Our team is good but consider how many of our players could start for the top 3 teams - only Berbs, Lennon, King and Robbo.

Our buying policy has been to plug decent players from weaker teams. It makes sense that they would take time to adjust to the higher demands of Prem fball.

[gloryglory]

I do think Yidboy has some good points. Jol has not covered himself in glory recently. There have been tactical errors in recent games (especially Arsenal at home). Our away performances have been fairly inexcusable, and it's easy for him to comment that we lack leaders, but that's actually mostly his fault.

We were actually very lucky last season a number of times (and with injuries). This season, apart from having a LOT of luck against Chelsea, we've been unlucky in a lot of games. Newcastle at home was insane.

But every team has its slumps. We're playing a lot more football than we're used to, we're missing big players quite frequently, and it's showing. Robinson's crisis of confidence is a major problem. Huddlestone and Zokora need time to get used to the Premiership, and they aren't getting it because Jenas keeps being out.

But with all that said, we showed last season (with a much weaker squad) that we are capable of putting together very good runs of results. We did it around October/November as well. Robbo aside, our defence is improving, and we always look like scoring. We've still won every game in Europe.

Even if this season ends in disappointment, Jol deserves next season to do better. But there's no need to write this one off just yet.

[Boaman]

We were actually very lucky last season a number of times


I agree with every word you said apart from the above sentence. I don't think we were lucky at all last season, maybe going out of both cups was a little bit of luck but in games I thought the luck was against us. We didn't have any penalties like Utd got yesterday, or goals that never were, or offsides that returned goals. I can only think of situations when we were unlucky:

- Bolton away, Defoes goal
- Lasagnagate
- Fulham away, late goal
- Sunderland away, late goal
- Arsenal both home and away we outplayed them
- Man Utd at home, LYP mistake
- Chelsea away, late goal
- Villa home, Sorensen great display had 20 shots

Now we were probably lucky at home to Portsmouth, Blackburn & to a degree Charlton away.

I don't go by the notion that we were batting above our weight last season, we were easily the 5th best team in the league and very close to being 4th best team. I think last season we were consistent without being spectactular which is the opposite this season.

[Rufusman]

O.K. Yidboy lets say we sack Jol, who would you bring in. All the best managers are in jobs. So that leaves those out of work, why are they out of work? Then we find someone and its back to the drawing board AGAIN! Out go Jols players and we sign players the new man likes. More bloody years of transistion, I reckon we cant ditch him yet and should give him more time.

[JoeT]

I like you style Yidboy. If someone could possibly arrange it, would you have a word with Messrs. Defoe and Keane before next Saturday please?

[jackhealy]

I agree with most of the comments but i would like to stress how football results (even 0-4) depend a great deal on luck. When Newcastle beat us 2-3 Newcastle were BLOODY lucky in fact some of the football we played that day was fantastic. The United game (whilst there is no denying United are a class act) could easily have gone our way. Conceding just before and after half time is always fatal but the times the ball was just inches off when we attacked suggested to me that on a 'lucky' day we could have scored SIX. If you don't believe me get a video of the game and just watch where the ball lands in the UNITED penalty area. On so many occasions UNITED were just plain lucky. I personally think that United have the best defence in the Premiership and it says a lot about SPURS wrt the possible number of goals we could have scored. Don't underplay the extent luck plays in a game. I guarantee some future matches will see us get our fair share of luck. Beating MAN U in the FA CUP final 1-0 scored by a deflection in the 90th min after United had hit the bar 7 times. Also Seville will rue their misfortune going down 3-4 to a 'lucky' Spurs in the EUFA cup final.

MANCMAN
I agree with much of this but I recall what Brian Robson said when West Brom got relegated: over a season the table doesn't lie. We can talk about luck in this or that game, though nobody wants to recall the games we were lucky to win; but where we are at the end of the season will not be a matter of luck but a measure of how good we are. The most conspicuous thing about us is the goals against column. We need to defend better.

[jackhealy]

O.K. Yidboy lets say we sack Jol, who would you bring in. All the best managers are in jobs. So that leaves those out of work, why are they out of work? Then we find someone and its back to the drawing board AGAIN! Out go Jols players and we sign players the new man likes. More bloody years of transistion, I reckon we cant ditch him yet and should give him more time.
Argree totally. The idea of having a director of football was to have some continuity and stop buying expensive players who then get sold on cheaply because a new manager doesn't rate them, and as you say, there are no good managers on the dole queue. If Newcastle are reduced to taking Roeder, that indicates a shortage of good mamagers, and if Martin Jol goes, there would be plenty of clubs ready to take him.

[YIDBOY]

Insomnia......read my other comments. That'll prove you wrong. Have you not got anything interesting to say other than calling people a prick......you brainless prick

[davidmatzdorf]

Insomnia......read my other comments. That'll prove you wrong. Have you not got anything interesting to say other than calling people a prick......you brainless prick

Well I'm not brainless and I also think you're a prick.

You rarely have anything constructive to say and you express all of your negative thoughts in this angry, spluttering, squawking writing style that just makes you sound like a really obnoxious character.

And incidentally, you have said nothing that "proves" anyone wrong. You've just sprayed your own opinions around, generally unsupported by evidence.

[YIDBOY]

Oh look, another one who thinks he's really clever! I thought that the idead of this sight was debate. You cant say the truth or even how you feel on this sight without getting slated. Its bollocks. This isn't an official Spurs propaganda sight, its a website for fans to discuss their views or vent their anger. Yeah i'm angry with how things or going, but there's no way i'm obnoxious. I'm a damn good supporter whos been there through thick and thin. I wont accept mediocrity as some of you seem happy with. I can take the insults on the chin but some of you numptys dont like it up ya! The truth hurts..........

[Insomnia]

Insomnia......read my other comments. That'll prove you wrong. Have you not got anything interesting to say other than calling people a prick......you brainless prick
well you're a cock as well,may i suggest you go follow the arsenal,they'll love you there,prick

[YIDBOY]

You're obsessed with cocks and pricks ya big gay boy!

[Insomnia]

stop chatting me up and get back to being an obnoxious prick sir

[YIDBOY]

You wish nancy boy. You haven't mentioned dick yet, you dick.

[Insomnia]

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz,time you pissed off to the effeminates stadium,leave the real fans here,saddo

[YIDBOY]

Blimey you never mentioned your fave obsession, male genitalia! How's school going anyway ya big poof?

[Insomnia]

well you've put me in my place and proved my original conceptions about you,you sir are in fact not a prick at all,as you have so elequently proven to me with your previous,well debated posts,you have proven to be,without any shadow of doubt a retarded wanker who licks the windows on the sunshine bus everyday,but you are "special",just like mummy says,i am bored with you now,see ya

[YIDBOY]

Laters, have a nice day at school rent boy