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Why we play 4-5-1 or "You don't know what you're doing"

Jan 27, 2007
167
4
I have to say first off that I am a huge fan of Gomes. That goal today was hit ferociously with swerve and any keeper would have done well to keep it out. To me (bar one mistake) he has been virtually faultless all season and has commanded his box superbly. I no longer feel the jitters every corner/free kick like I did with Robbo in goal.

I shook my head today when Gilberto was announced in the squad. How/why.... it seems that the fans have a pretty good consensus of what they reckon is the best team (basically agree with Rob)...why do we keep selecting the wrong people game after game.

Ekotto does not look like anything more than a squad player to me. Manages to pass to no one on a regular basis rather than play it out patiently.

Finally I think a significant amount of blame should be laid at the feet of Jenas today. The handball in the area was unexcusable...at that distance out there was no harm in letting the ball fly by if he couldn't make it there... and to think he's captain... I've seen more passion from my local third eleven village cricketers.
 

THX2208

Ubisoft Goes Steamworks Bye Bye; Always On DRM
Dec 6, 2006
2,921
4,774
My team for Thursday nights game in Poland would be:
....................Gomes..................

Gunter.....Woodgate.....King.....Bale

Lennon.....Jenas.....Zorkora.....Santos

...............Bent......Campbell.............


3-1 Victory for us. COYS
 

ripley

Well-Known Member
Jan 7, 2005
640
285
Excellent post Rob and it brings up an interesting question: Are we playing 4-5-1 because Commoli has been unable to supply the players that Ramos needs to play a formation he prefers better...or have we acquired the players that Ramos wanted for this formation?
 

superspurs

Member
Jun 10, 2003
60
0
The way I see it there are two types of teams who play 4-5-1 - the teams looking to battle for a point/play a very direct style of play, and then the teams with enough attacking power and flair play proper football with it.

Assuming we employ the system in an attempt to play like the latter, i cant see how we have the personel for it no matter who you put in the starting lineup from the squad we have availible.
 

samriggtheyid

New Member
Sep 28, 2008
4
0
i'm so pissed off atm y does he not play 2 upfront instead of having pavlyuchenko ,who's slower thn berba was, upfront on his own. bent aint brilliant but when we played krakow or watever ramos put bent up with campbell and it worked.
 

Krafty

Well-Known Member
May 26, 2004
4,768
2,099
I am a little bit concerned by some of Ramos' selections - Gilberto comes in from nowhere?? - I'd like us to play a more consistent lineup for the time being until the team has gelled and they all know each other a bit more.

I think our big problem was and is midfield. None of them are really good enough to play in 2 right now (I think Modric will become good enough to run games in the Prem but he is not quite ready yet) and yet none of them are good enough to play with only one striker who doesnt do all the creating (again Modric seems the one able to do this, given time).

For me, midfield is the problem. Not only are they not helping out the attack or the defence, they are not even winning their own battle in the middle of the park
 

DC_Boy

New Member
May 20, 2005
17,608
5
I'm a big defender of JJ - but if he was to be dropped for Thursday I couldn't argue - however I think it'll be a mistake cos I still think he's better than any of our other mids - I certainly can't think of a better one on current form that we have

but by all means give someone else a go

however I've read a few people having ago at him cos he's captain - that's ridiculous - it is not his fault JR has made him captain

I think it's the wrong choice and should be Woody, but what's JJ supposed to say - no thank you
 

autolycus

New Member
Nov 13, 2006
4
0
Interesting, serious discussion.

What's the logic of having one up front against defences of 4? Perhaps a more trivial thought compared to the serious careful analyses above - just wondered.
 

gusrowe

Well-Known Member
Feb 20, 2005
836
809
I thought everyone in the team played well..but not as a team. Corluka was my Spurs MOM amd Zokora played well before being taken off......I thought that a strange decision. Even Dawson had a good game. Tactics were woeful and confusing and I feel that Ramos needs to let this team play naturally rather than to strict instructions on formation. Give them there heads and let them free.
 

parj

NDombelly ate all the pies
Jul 27, 2003
3,586
5,861
Have we played a 3 man midfield that didn't include Jenas? The issue isn't Jenas missing, it's that in a 2-man midfield Zokora is a liability (as is Huddlestone and most of our midfielders).

My opinion is that we need to persist with 4-5-1 and we need to drop Jenas but to prevent Pav being isolated from the midfield it's got to be Modric who really steps up. Our season hinges on him staying fit and playing as well as we know he can.

i believe a lot of fans seem to forget what jenas offers and that is an engine to keep going up and down. does anyone honestly think a midfield of ohara, modric and zokora will win games in the same line up as today? modric and ohara do not have the strength or pace that jenas has (yes jenas is not a powerhouse but he is stronger).

same formation, same personnel and any central midfielder will struggle. no doubt modric will perform on wednesday but because he wont have gilberto down the left and will have gunter busting a gut at right back to support Bentley.

i remember a time on SC when many bashed Robbie Keane, much like jenas, too until he became the super yiddo of the last 2 years

im sorry to say, but Ramos is paid to do this job and if he has seen something in jenas to pick him every game and make him vice captain, as well as managers before ramos who also saw more to his game then any of us.
 

cuba montana

New Member
Sep 28, 2008
1
0
We've exchanged a charismatic consistent manager who got us back to back 5th place finishes but won us nothing with a big game/cup specialist manager, who has little time for man management and believes everything can be achieved through hard training.

Listen Ramos, learn to speak English properly and not like the Spanish Popeye, speak to your players and put your arms around them from time to time and maybe the boys will understand your confusing tactics!

We've gone from being a fluid side into a side who look lost. We haven't even looked like scoring or creating opportunities and there's something seriously wrong at Spurs, players like Lennon are being sacrificed because of illogical tactics.

KEEP IT SIMPLE, that's what Jol did and although we always came up short against the top 4 sides, it's better than being last in the league!

Oh and sack Commolli!
 

DC_Boy

New Member
May 20, 2005
17,608
5
well said parj

I want spurs to do well and honestly think we'll do worse without jj - but in ways i'd quite happily see us take the risk for a few games

maybe we will improve without him

maybe we won't

it's probably time to find out

oh and interesting points gusrowe :)
 

asher

Member
Dec 7, 2006
352
28
In my mind there are several problems. Firstly some of the players are just not good enough, average at best. The likes of Ekotto, Gilberto, Dawson and O'Hara just dont cut it although I do think that O'Hara has a bit of heart. The likes of JJ, Zokora, and Bent are to in and out. One day they are great, next day awful. We have no leaders in the team therefore no cohesion.
Regards Ramos I think the guy is proven but why he changes the team every game is bizarre. Look at Chelsea and dare I say Villa. There teams hardly change only to accomodate injuries & suspensions. Therefore you get cohesion and players get used to plaing together and thus become a unit and team. I'm truly worried, if we lose 2/3 more EPL games I would call for Harry, big time.
 

waresy

Well-Known Member
Mar 22, 2004
2,421
1,569
I thought everyone in the team played well..but not as a team. Corluka was my Spurs MOM

Interesting thought. Cant say I have been very impressed with Corluka at all yet other than a bit of composed bring out of the ball. Would have prefered Gunter in there today for a bit of fight and pace.

O'hara was the only one that made any impression on me today and a couple of other players that didnt do anything 'wrong'
 

Paxtonite

Active Member
Nov 28, 2004
1,956
32
4-5-1 is not a negative system. We must understand this before it is debated.

If played properly 4-5-1 can become 4-3-3 when we have posession. The last time our club played this system successfuly was in 1987 under Pleat and it worked a treat but we had the personnel from midfield that made it work (Hoddle, Hodge, Ardiles, P.Allen and Waddle). That system offered width, a range of passing and good breaking from midfield as well as a screen in front of the back four when we were defending.

Our system at the moment is a bit of a mish mash that is not helped by the constant changes to the starting 11 as well as the lack of confidence through not winning games.

I accept much of Rob's very detailed analysis, to which i agree in the main. I have never been a fan of Jenas, but recently i have noticed that we miss him when he is not playing. I'm not sure how good a thing that is, in fact it is probably more of a worry given how he rarely takes a game by the scruff of the neck or imposes himself on a match. Think about it. The last time he played REALLY well was in both legs of the carling cup against arsenal and he was very effective. So what is stopping him doing that in every game?

We have a plethora of midfielders but we have no blend presently. In addition our striking options have been severely dented with the departure of Keane or Berbatov. With the latter pair we at least had a potency in our attack, regardless of how well we were playing. This season we have plenty of posession, but i'd be interested to see how many shots we have had in our first six games?? Therein lies the problem, a severe lack of chances created. When a team creates chances, the players are up, the fans are up, it is a question of time before "something" happens.

Today's game was always going to be difficult regardless of what form we were in. The defeats against Boro, Sunderland (possibly Villa as it was a home game) and the draw against Wigan have set us back so much (and yes i know that hindsight is an easy thing).

We now have a crucial game coming up in Europe, as well as Hull at home. BOTH are must win. Then an international break and a game against Stoke away. Its all very well churning out the "we must fight as a team" spiel, but the players and the manager need to start earning their wages.

It won't be long before we are playing Arsenal away and then Liverpool at home. The games won't be getting any easier!!
 

hotteamtn

Member
Apr 14, 2004
37
1
Sorry to say this but Ramos days are numbered, not all his fault but we are heading for relegation. I suggest getting Venables to save the situation.
 

nav007_2000

Well-Known Member
Sep 28, 2006
2,155
2,609
The first person out of the door has to be Camolli. His signings have been utter rubbish. Levy should be second as the transfers of Keane abd berbatov were not handled properly. We have two strikers worth a combined £30million. Both Useless. Camolli to blame. get rid of him before its too late
 

Thesoccershrink

Active Member
Nov 17, 2004
740
62
If you play a 4-5-1 the lone striker has to have the ability to hold the ball up for the support to arrive. Neither Bent or Pav seem particularly suited to it. Kanoute did it and of course (hate to mention his name) but a certain Bulgarian did it, too. (Who can forget his masterful performance spearheading a 4-4-1 when reduced to ten men vs Bolton a couple of seasons ago?).

Because neither Pav or Bent do this very well the whole shape of the team going forward is awful. If we continue playing this system with this personnel, we'll struggle horribly all season. It's hard to see where the goals will come from. Right now, we're working hard to grind out defeats.
 
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