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███████ Match Ratings vs Chelsea ███████

MOTM


  • Total voters
    226

gp13tot

Well-Known Member
Aug 25, 2011
1,759
1,278
Friedel 7
Walker 5
BAE 4 - disgrace
King 6
Gallas 7
Parker 6
Sandro 8
Modric 7
Bale 7
VDV 3 - didn't know he was playing at times
Ade 7

Pav 5
 

Spurs_Bear

Well-Known Member
Jan 7, 2009
17,094
22,286
Friedel 7
Walker 5
BAE 4 - disgrace
King 6
Gallas 7
Parker 6
Sandro 8
Modric 7
Bale 7
VDV 3 - didn't know he was playing at times
Ade 7

Pav 5


LOL at giving BAE and VDV 4 and 3 and then having the audacity to give Pav a 5 :lol:
 

sloth

Well-Known Member
Mar 7, 2005
9,018
6,900
Thought that was pretty good over all.

Redknapp's too conservative with his tactics.

Bale needs a rocket up the arse to get him to work more when we lose the ball - same goes for a few others too.

We need to rotate more. Sandro looked excellent, Parker jaded, but with proper rotation there's no reason both shouldn't have looked excellent at this stage of the season.
 

walworthyid

David Ginola
Oct 25, 2004
7,059
10,242
Thought that was pretty good over all.

Redknapp's too conservative with his tactics.

Bale needs a rocket up the arse to get him to work more when we lose the ball - same goes for a few others too.

We need to rotate more. Sandro looked excellent, Parker jaded, but with proper rotation there's no reason both shouldn't have looked excellent at this stage of the season.

I can see why Harry made the change he made last night. We really don't have a player to play on the right. He also didn't want to move Bale to the right probably because he wanted to keep Sturridge in check, which he was for most of the night. But it exposes a number of problems that we all know about.

Firstly, we are set up to rely on the pace of our wingers especially when VDV is not on the pitch. We really have to work hard to force something through the middle, as VDV did with the pass for Pav's goal against Sunderland. But against a team like Chelsea, that just isn't going to happen too often. So when Bale and/or Lennon are not playing we are in serious trouble. The only way to deal with that is to buy similar players in January.

The next thing is Harry's lack of imagination and flexibility in terms of formation. He knew we would have less of the ball if we went 4-4-2. He obviously hoped that we could force something, which we nearly did. But surely it would have made more sense to put Walker at right wing and Corluka behind him? That is not ideal but moving Modric out wide doesn't make our right much better than it wuld with Pienaar or Niko, and it certainly weakens our middle and makes it more difficult to retain the ball which is obviosly not what we want when switching from a 3 to a 2 against 3.

He also seems to not believe that Modric can play further forward. He could have pushed him forward and brought on Niko/Pienaar and kept us strong in the middle as well as strengthening our right.

Like you say, Harry really needs to be braver and believe in our squad players just like Fergie does. Decimated with injuries to key players, what do they do? Beat Fulham 5-0 at Craven Cottage. Sandro is another key issue. He needs to play. Not just because he can replace Parker, but because he can offer something that Parker doesn't. Parker covers the ground, but Sandro does it more dynamically. He has an eye for a forward move. He really could be the perfect midfielder.

I think last night showed that we are not quite there yet. However, watching last night's game I got to thinking about when I used to watch these cagey, well-balanced affairs among the top 4, I used to dream about us having them, so it isn't all bad.
 

ultimateloner

Well-Known Member
Jan 25, 2004
4,539
2,149
Sandro was amazing...covered alot of ground and makes good, accurate challenge. The one that led to to balés cross and finally the goal was superb.
 

double0

Well-Known Member
Aug 29, 2006
14,423
12,258
He is a very inconsistent player for me and the last few games,he has been poor.
£170,000 a week for him is a joke,I certainly wouldn't pay him more than £50,000.
Demba Ba is a far better striker.

Are you serious? fair due at times Adebayor doesnt always trap the ball like say Berbatov but more ofthen he does. Considering his alround play movement interchange and link up play I beg to differ.

Adebayor as an alround target man is up there on the elite table in EPL.
 

Marty

Audere est farce
Mar 10, 2005
39,884
62,541
Lol at demba ba being better than ade
Ba certainly strikes the ball better, just look at his two goals the other day, both phenomenal strikes. But Adebayor is still definitely the better target man/all-round footballer.
 

Wheeler Dealer

Well-Known Member
Jul 29, 2011
6,863
12,282
He is a very inconsistent player for me and the last few games,he has been poor.
£170,000 a week for him is a joke,I certainly wouldn't pay him more than £50,000.
Demba Ba is a far better striker.

It's Man City who were prepared to pay him £170k a week, so you can't blame him for taking it. The problem is, no one else can afford to pay this type of money, which considering Adebayor is reluctant to take a drop in wages will probably see him at the golf range and training with kids with Wayne Bridge next season.

If he does comes here permantly, I'm sure that it will be on Levy's terms only.
 

Spurs_Bear

Well-Known Member
Jan 7, 2009
17,094
22,286
Demba Ba better than Adebayor. Fuck my old boots.

I've literally heard everything now.

Ba is a striker on form, nothing more. I literally can't believe someone suggested that.
 

sweyid

Well-Known Member
Jun 25, 2011
2,963
3,854
Ba and Ade are completely different players. Ba is more like Defoe than Ade. I reckon Ba is a better finisher, but that's it. All-round, Ade is better than Ba.

Then again, we haven't seen that much of Ba in the PL. He might just be in form right now and in a couple of weeks he'll be completely pants. Adebayor has been great in PL for years, both in Arsenal, the few games he played for City and at Spurs he's been great too. Heck, he even looked good in Real, I very much doubt Ba would.
 

jamesc0le

SISS:LOKO:plays/thinks/eats chicken like sissoko!
Jun 17, 2008
4,974
944
ba = STRIKER ade=CF

ba is fucking immense in the box. him n ade would be one hell of a party upfront.
 

jamesc0le

SISS:LOKO:plays/thinks/eats chicken like sissoko!
Jun 17, 2008
4,974
944
it dont matter though. cos we gonna sign berbatov OH YES SIR
 

ShelfSide18

Well-Known Member
Aug 23, 2006
8,386
3,122
This was a really interesting game, classic premiership but also quite a tactical affair too - both Redknapp and AVB changed things around and both were nearly vindicated, a draw was a fair result.

It was obvious AVB would go with his recent formula of sitting deeper, less possession and playing more reactively on the counter attack, see here...

http://www.zonalmarking.net/2011/12/19/andre-villas-boas-chelsea-possession/

With this in mind the obligation was for us to take the initiative, play high up, move the ball around and dominate the game and that's exactly what we did early on and got a well deserved goal, but unlike most teams who come and play deep and on the counter at WHL who will continue to do that and try and nick a late goal etc, Chelsea immediately came out, played higher up and got more of a grip on the ball. I guess with all the mixed messages coming from us this week about who was fit/unfit AVB had them drilled to play high and deep at the click of the fingers. As soon as they got the equaliser where Walker and BAE were horribly exposed, they dropped deeper again and we once more got a grip on the ball.

Redknapps half time switch will get criticised, but there was a real logic to it - it's just a shame that Pav didn't realise this either. Mikel went off just before half time for them and he is excellent at sitting between the lines suffocating the space, this is why VDV was playing from the right which I was happy with, there would have been no space for him to operate in had he played off Ade. Romeu is more of a deep lying passer who will step into the midfield and play more fluidly meaning there would be more space in the hole, and with VDV injured Pav was a decent choice to operate their and also pick up Romeu off the ball so we weren't outnumbered in the centre, which Pav did very poorly. It was a brave move, and didn't quite work out, but I won't criticise Harry for that move. With a 4-4-2 in place we were naturally going to play more directly, quicker balls forward to try and test a slow makeshift defence and also lure Chelsea out to play higher up and more proactively where they have well documented failings this season. Redknapp was John Terry's arse away from being vindicated, but they had some great chances too which was always going to happen as we deliberately opened the game up. I criticised that move against Arsenal, but here I think it was just about justified.

It was an entertaining game, and I can't be disappointed with our performance or Harry's tactics at all. We go into Christmas as London's top club, and I for one am delighted with the way this season is going so far. We're still not there yet, but we are improving, have a great team spirit and I think Redknapp is getting a lot more right than wrong than he was last season.

Friedel 6 Enough has been said about him staying on his line, but I was most disappointed with him nearly gifting Sturridge a goal by parrying the ball straight into a danger area in the first half.
Walker 5 AWOL for the goal, and whilst you can't fault his willingness to get forward and attack he didn't have much joy there.
BAE 4 Poorest game for a while, joined Walker in the AWOL department for their goal, and his passing was very poor. Sturridge gave him a torrid time.
King 6 Not his best, and finally lost his 100% win ratio this season.
Gallas 8 Big game player, didn't disappoint.
Bale 7.5 Devastating going forward, must work harder. The ball for Ade was sickeningly good.
VDV 7 Got involved, rarely loses the ball and had he not got injured would have had more joy in the second half where I'm sure Harry would have brought him central.
Modric 7 Decent enough, was obviously best early on when we dominated the ball.
Sandro 8.5 Absolute machine, him and Parker together are like 2 supercarged Pacmen munching anything in their path.
Parker 7.5 Looking a little tired now, but still more than decent.
Ade 7.5 Good performance, so involved in our play - when his first touch recovers a little these will be 9s.

Pav 5 Blown off the ball by a moderate gust of wind.

Merry Christmas SC.
 

sloth

Well-Known Member
Mar 7, 2005
9,018
6,900
I can see why Harry made the change he made last night. We really don't have a player to play on the right. He also didn't want to move Bale to the right probably because he wanted to keep Sturridge in check, which he was for most of the night. But it exposes a number of problems that we all know about.

Firstly, we are set up to rely on the pace of our wingers especially when VDV is not on the pitch. We really have to work hard to force something through the middle, as VDV did with the pass for Pav's goal against Sunderland. But against a team like Chelsea, that just isn't going to happen too often. So when Bale and/or Lennon are not playing we are in serious trouble. The only way to deal with that is to buy similar players in January.

The next thing is Harry's lack of imagination and flexibility in terms of formation. He knew we would have less of the ball if we went 4-4-2. He obviously hoped that we could force something, which we nearly did. But surely it would have made more sense to put Walker at right wing and Corluka behind him? That is not ideal but moving Modric out wide doesn't make our right much better than it wuld with Pienaar or Niko, and it certainly weakens our middle and makes it more difficult to retain the ball which is obviosly not what we want when switching from a 3 to a 2 against 3.

He also seems to not believe that Modric can play further forward. He could have pushed him forward and brought on Niko/Pienaar and kept us strong in the middle as well as strengthening our right.

Like you say, Harry really needs to be braver and believe in our squad players just like Fergie does. Decimated with injuries to key players, what do they do? Beat Fulham 5-0 at Craven Cottage. Sandro is another key issue. He needs to play. Not just because he can replace Parker, but because he can offer something that Parker doesn't. Parker covers the ground, but Sandro does it more dynamically. He has an eye for a forward move. He really could be the perfect midfielder.

I think last night showed that we are not quite there yet. However, watching last night's game I got to thinking about when I used to watch these cagey, well-balanced affairs among the top 4, I used to dream about us having them, so it isn't all bad.

I think the rotation thing and also getting that work ethic into our players when we don't have the ball are two things we can legitimately say are pretty obvious things Harry hasn't or hasn't managed to do.

With the rotation, it's not only, as you suggest, that Sandro offers something unique to the team, but that a fit Parker does too. I want the option of playing either or both at or nearly at their optimum level. Instead we run one into the ground and then the other takes over and is rusty for a couple of games while he gets up to speed.

The work ethic is tougher because some players are simply a bit lazy and if they happen to be your best players it's hard to make them be less lazy. Competition for places really does it, or an amazing motivator like SAF or Mourinho.

I think the problem with criticising the tactics is we can all agree with what was basically wrong, but we have different ideas of how to put it right.

For instance I read BC's long post earlier and couldn't agree with his specific analysis at all, even while I could agree that brining Pav on and going two in the middle was a terrible idea. For this thread then, I'll reserve my comments to this: Harry's a conservative tactician by instinct; if in doubt he reverts to his tried and tested.

Against Chelsea he'd diagnosed a weakness in matching our two CMs against their three - he came out and said as much after the game - ad yet he sacrificed that for the increased goal threat of Pav in a 4-4-2. This, I believe is because his default is 4-4-2 and against trying anything more imaginative, the reassurance he felt in playing something he trusted allowed him to overlook the logic of his thinking and the uncertainty he felt there.

Were he to have tried to maintain our three against their's he would have been required to do something imaginative to also maintain a goal threat (we can argue to the cows come home about what that should have been). He rarely has it in him to do that and so we got a second half performance which handed the initiative to Chelsea.
 

Mr Pink

SC Supporter
Aug 25, 2010
54,770
99,327
This was a really interesting game, classic premiership but also quite a tactical affair too - both Redknapp and AVB changed things around and both were nearly vindicated, a draw was a fair result.

It was obvious AVB would go with his recent formula of sitting deeper, less possession and playing more reactively on the counter attack, see here...

http://www.zonalmarking.net/2011/12/19/andre-villas-boas-chelsea-possession/

With this in mind the obligation was for us to take the initiative, play high up, move the ball around and dominate the game and that's exactly what we did early on and got a well deserved goal, but unlike most teams who come and play deep and on the counter at WHL who will continue to do that and try and nick a late goal etc, Chelsea immediately came out, played higher up and got more of a grip on the ball. I guess with all the mixed messages coming from us this week about who was fit/unfit AVB had them drilled to play high and deep at the click of the fingers. As soon as they got the equaliser where Walker and BAE were horribly exposed, they dropped deeper again and we once more got a grip on the ball.

Redknapps half time switch will get criticised, but there was a real logic to it - it's just a shame that Pav didn't realise this either. Mikel went off just before half time for them and he is excellent at sitting between the lines suffocating the space, this is why VDV was playing from the right which I was happy with, there would have been no space for him to operate in had he played off Ade. Romeu is more of a deep lying passer who will step into the midfield and play more fluidly meaning there would be more space in the hole, and with VDV injured Pav was a decent choice to operate their and also pick up Romeu off the ball so we weren't outnumbered in the centre, which Pav did very poorly. It was a brave move, and didn't quite work out, but I won't criticise Harry for that move. With a 4-4-2 in place we were naturally going to play more directly, quicker balls forward to try and test a slow makeshift defence and also lure Chelsea out to play higher up and more proactively where they have well documented failings this season. Redknapp was John Terry's arse away from being vindicated, but they had some great chances too which was always going to happen as we deliberately opened the game up. I criticised that move against Arsenal, but here I think it was just about justified.

It was an entertaining game, and I can't be disappointed with our performance or Harry's tactics at all. We go into Christmas as London's top club, and I for one am delighted with the way this season is going so far. We're still not there yet, but we are improving, have a great team spirit and I think Redknapp is getting a lot more right than wrong than he was last season.

Friedel 6 Enough has been said about him staying on his line, but I was most disappointed with him nearly gifting Sturridge a goal by parrying the ball straight into a danger area in the first half.
Walker 5 AWOL for the goal, and whilst you can't fault his willingness to get forward and attack he didn't have much joy there.
BAE 4 Poorest game for a while, joined Walker in the AWOL department for their goal, and his passing was very poor. Sturridge gave him a torrid time.
King 6 Not his best, and finally lost his 100% win ratio this season.
Gallas 8 Big game player, didn't disappoint.
Bale 7.5 Devastating going forward, must work harder. The ball for Ade was sickeningly good.
VDV 7 Got involved, rarely loses the ball and had he not got injured would have had more joy in the second half where I'm sure Harry would have brought him central.
Modric 7 Decent enough, was obviously best early on when we dominated the ball.
Sandro 8.5 Absolute machine, him and Parker together are like 2 supercarged Pacmen munching anything in their path.
Parker 7.5 Looking a little tired now, but still more than decent.
Ade 7.5 Good performance, so involved in our play - when his first touch recovers a little these will be 9s.

Pav 5 Blown off the ball by a moderate gust of wind.

Merry Christmas SC.

I said myself that I could see the logic in the change as he was trying to kill two birds with one stone, ie exploit the change of Mikel and test their vulnerable back line but I still think the canny move would of been Kranjcar....who is the closest thing to VDV, you said it yourself - had VDV been on the field second half Harry would of brought him central.
 

Mr Pink

SC Supporter
Aug 25, 2010
54,770
99,327
I think the rotation thing and also getting that work ethic into our players when we don't have the ball are two things we can legitimately say are pretty obvious things Harry hasn't or hasn't managed to do.

With the rotation, it's not only, as you suggest, that Sandro offers something unique to the team, but that a fit Parker does too. I want the option of playing either or both at or nearly at their optimum level. Instead we run one into the ground and then the other takes over and is rusty for a couple of games while he gets up to speed.

The work ethic is tougher because some players are simply a bit lazy and if they happen to be your best players it's hard to make them be less lazy. Competition for places really does it, or an amazing motivator like SAF or Mourinho.

I think the problem with criticising the tactics is we can all agree with what was basically wrong, but we have different ideas of how to put it right.

For instance I read BC's long post earlier and couldn't agree with his specific analysis at all, even while I could agree that brining Pav on and going two in the middle was a terrible idea. For this thread then, I'll reserve my comments to this: Harry's a conservative tactician by instinct; if in doubt he reverts to his tried and tested.

Against Chelsea he'd diagnosed a weakness in matching our two CMs against their three - he came out and said as much after the game - ad yet he sacrificed that for the increased goal threat of Pav in a 4-4-2. This, I believe is because his default is 4-4-2 and against trying anything more imaginative, the reassurance he felt in playing something he trusted allowed him to overlook the logic of his thinking and the uncertainty he felt there.

Were he to have tried to maintain our three against their's he would have been required to do something imaginative to also maintain a goal threat (we can argue to the cows come home about what that should have been
). He rarely has it in him to do that and so we got a second half performance which handed the initiative to Chelsea.

One answer...Kranjcar, he's proved time and time again that he's a goal threat and it would of been the closet thing to matching up our first half set up. Just totally bewildered as to why Harry constantly over looks this.
 
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