Andre Villas-Boas

idontgetit · Apr 20, 2014

Anyone who's getting teary eyed about AVB not being here, go back and watch us get demolished 3-0 by West Ham on our own turf. He wasn't a good tactician and will only ever win titles when he has a forward line full of world class talent playing in a weak league. Not unless he changes his philosophy anyway.

It doesn't have to be TS or AVB either. They're both really shit

nightgoat · Apr 20, 2014

FinnYid said:
What are you about - of course they were in the same game, I even quoted your comment on it. It's just that flukes and superb individual efforts seem more condemnable on your book pending on who is the manager.

You've pulled something out of thin air, there.

FinnYid said:
Yep, points are really irrelevant. Perhaps we should concentrate on relevant stats like possession?

Nope. Because like I said, stats are largely irrelevant and can be twisted to suit almost any argument (case in point, trying to suggest we haven't been dreadful under Sherwood.) Where's the stat to indicate we should have been 3-0 down at half time at home to Palace? Or you could look at the stats that show Tim's been riding on individual performances, initially from Adebayor, now Eriksen?

FinnYid said:
I've watched pretty much all of our games this season and I have zero problem admitting we've been at times absolute shambles under Sherwood. However you probably haven't watched us at all under AVB if you thought that was better.

At least we had a plan under AVB, at times looked like a coherent team and weren't opened up at will by every single opponent.

FinnYid said:
26 games - so we're yet again digging up Tbilisis and such to make AVB seem less like a failure? At PL Sherwoods had what 5 clean sheets and AVB had 7? Then again AVB had 0 goals in 6 of his games, Sherwood in 4. Anyway, our goals per game average on PL has been over 100% better under Tim than under AVB. And that reflects to the points, hence quite a gap in points per game too.

Obviously Sherwood hasn't had five PL clean sheets, as he's only had four in all competitions. What value AVB's clean sheets against Tbilisi, Anzhi, Tromso and Sheriff when Tim couldn't manage one against Dnipro?

nightgoat · Apr 20, 2014

beats1 said:
Because no one has heard of the others

Nah, because Zenit beat the team in sixth, which wouldn't fit his 'I hate AVB' drivel. Of course it's all stats, win percentages, points per game and any other figures he can pull out of his arse to big up Thee Almighty Tim Sherwood, yet when someone mentions AVB has a 100% start at Zenit all of a sudden it's 'oh, well, um, er... he hasn't beaten anyone good yet...'

Vulcan10 · Apr 20, 2014

idontgetit said:
Anyone who's getting teary eyed about AVB not being here, go back and watch us get demolished 3-0 by West Ham on our own turf. He wasn't a good tactician and will only ever win titles when he has a forward line full of world class talent playing in a weak league. Not unless he changes his philosophy anyway.

It doesn't have to be TS or AVB either. They're both really shit

I still can't decide if avb is a misunderstood genius or a complete fraud who blagged his way into two of the top premier league jobs. I certainly think you have a point about top talent in a weak league.
I'll probably never know for sure, the bore fests he dished up are offset some what by the lack of backing he got in bringing in the playmakers he wanted (although the requests to sign villa and hulk and to a degree Willian again suggest he's slightly off his rocker).
The one thing we can say for him is that he was professional and eloquent and represented the club well in public so I guess every time tim speaks it makes avb look good, that is probably where people are coming from when pining after him. It's more a case of tim's deficiencies highlighting avb's good points rather than a real desire to actually see him return.

FinnYid · Apr 20, 2014

nightgoat said:
Nope. Because like I said, stats are largely irrelevant and can be twisted to suit almost any argument (case in point, trying to suggest we haven't been dreadful under Sherwood.) Where's the stat to indicate we should have been 3-0 down at half time at home to Palace? Or you could look at the stats that show Tim's been riding on individual performances, initially from Adebayor, now Eriksen?

Yep, of course stats are irrelevant - especially those linked to points.

nightgoat said:
At least we had a plan under AVB, at times looked like a coherent team and weren't opened up at will by every single opponent.

And we didn't open up a single decent opponent - hence scoring on average under goal a game and getting points at worse rate than under Sherwood. If anything this season has proved that having no plan is better than having unbelievably bad plan.

nightgoat said:
Obviously Sherwood hasn't had five PL clean sheets, as he's only had four in all competitions. What value AVB's clean sheets against Tbilisi, Anzhi, Tromso and Sheriff when Tim couldn't manage one against Dnipro?

Are you really, seriously, comparing Dnipro - who were just moment ago on top of Ukrainian League before Shakhtar and Kiyv - with Tromsö, Sheriff and Tbilisi??

As for clean sheets at PL Stoke (3-0), Palace (2-0), Everton (1-0), Newcastle (4-0) and Cardiff (1-0). I honestly don't know where you altarboys come up with your stats.

Lifeson · Apr 20, 2014

FinnYid said:
Yep, of course stats are irrelevant - especially those linked to points.

And we didn't open up a single decent opponent - hence scoring on average under goal a game and getting points at worse rate than under Sherwood. If anything this season has proved that having no plan is better than having unbelievably bad plan.

Are you really, seriously, comparing Dnipro - who were just moment ago on top of Ukrainian League before Shakhtar and Kiyv - with Tromsö, Sheriff and Tbilisi??

As for clean sheets at PL Stoke (3-0), Palace (2-0), Everton (1-0), Newcastle (4-0) and Cardiff (1-0). I honestly don't know where you altarboys come up with your stats.

AVB: 55% win rate W44 D20 L16
TS: 48% win rate W12 D4 L9

I know you like stats so here's some for you. After the initial boost of changing managers we have been a total shambles, TS almost loses as much as he wins.

FinnYid · Apr 20, 2014

Lifeson said:
AVB: 55% win rate W44 D20 L16
TS: 48% win rate W12 D4 L9

I know you like stats so here's some for you. After the initial boost of changing managers we have been a total shambles, TS almost loses as much as he wins.

While you naturally boost your winning percentages playing Tbilisis, Tromsös, Sheriffs and Anzhis of this world, twice and you have less shot of improving those by playing Benficas and Arsenals, I'd rather stick to PL comparison. Some might call it "suiting my agenda", but I really think deep down even such know that Sherwood would've gotten us through UEL qualifications and UEL group stage while AVB would have stood no chance against Arsenal away or Benfica.

SpursManChris · Apr 20, 2014

0-Tibsy-0 said:
http://en.fc-zenit.ru/main/video/gl4029/

What a man...

What the hell is the man doing in that video? He looks a right nob.

hakano · Apr 20, 2014

Can't believe all these AVB and TS stats. They are both shit! There's my comparison.

TottenhamMattSpur · Apr 20, 2014

carpediem991 said:
I am really sorry, but I can't remember us playing any good since he is here. Now we have as excuse a lot of new players who have to settle. AVB takes the confidence out of Lamela and Chad by not picking them. His team selection isn't that bad. He rewards good efforts in the cups and Europa League with league appearances.

But the whole season we create nearly nothing. And last season it was nearly the same. We grabbed up a lot of dirty wins which is good for mentality but you can't get lucky every time.

Yes stats says we have a lot of shots on goal. But hell a lot of useless 30 metres wonder shots.

I feel sorry for some players like Soldado.

I think we have the players to feed him and to create, but we don't do it because of lack of movement.

For now there isn't a reason to think of sacking AVB because we are fourth with good 19 points after 9 games.... but we look so clueless it hurts at times...

Way ahead of your time.
Although it transpired that soldado just isn't good enough.

TottenhamMattSpur · Apr 20, 2014

At least we're fun to watch under Dim.

I'd rather be fun to watch than super duper cautious.

Metalhead · Apr 20, 2014

Vulcan10 said:
I still can't decide if avb is a misunderstood genius or a complete fraud who blagged his way into two of the top premier league jobs. I certainly think you have a point about top talent in a weak league.
I'll probably never know for sure, the bore fests he dished up are offset some what by the lack of backing he got in bringing in the playmakers he wanted (although the requests to sign villa and hulk and to a degree Willian again suggest he's slightly off his rocker).
The one thing we can say for him is that he was professional and eloquent and represented the club well in public so I guess every time tim speaks it makes avb look good, that is probably where people are coming from when pining after him. It's more a case of tim's deficiencies highlighting avb's good points rather than a real desire to actually see him return.

I don't think that he was a fraud in that it would imply that he had a deliberate intent to mislead. I think he was a bit one dimensional and seemed unwilling to be flexible in terms of his tactics or player selections but I think perhaps some are being a bit revisionist in getting rose tinted spectacles about him. Plenty of fans wanted him to stick his computer print outs and inverted winger systems where the sun fails to shine.

weststandvoice · Apr 20, 2014

FinnYid said:
While you naturally boost your winning percentages playing Tbilisis, Tromsös, Sheriffs and Anzhis of this world, twice and you have less shot of improving those by playing Benficas and Arsenals, I'd rather stick to PL comparison. Some might call it "suiting my agenda", but I really think deep down even such know that Sherwood would've gotten us through UEL qualifications and UEL group stage while AVB would have stood no chance against Arsenal away or Benfica.

Ring fencing EPL stats is only ever misleading. The sample groups need to be comparable.

If team A only play 32 games in total, and team B play 52 games in total, team B are disadvantaged because of the additional fatigue they face. To suggest that you boost your win rate by playing Eurotrash is so dishonest it's laughable.

You aren't comparing like with like.

Also, it is tougher to sustain a win percentage over time. If the manager of team A has a win% of 53 and the manager of team B a win% of 46, is it unfair to suggest that if he had not be burdened with 20 additional cup games, that he may have fared better?

As for "I really think deep down even such know that Sherwood would've gotten us through UEL qualifications and UEL group stage" this is you guessing.

The facts are, that we were projectile vomited out of all 3 cup competitions in double time under Tim. His significant contributions in Europe were to get into a row with an official over using the multi-ball system and of course, to have his pants pulled down by the Benfica coach.

The bottom line is that there is no perfect means of comparision, other than for people to decide by the most accurate method... which is which one is the biggest ****, in their opinion?

I'm not sure a poll is required and I don't know how to add one, but Tim gets my vote.

FinnYid · Apr 20, 2014

weststandvoice said:
Ring fencing EPL stats is only ever misleading. The sample groups need to be comparable.

If team A only play 32 games in total, and team B play 52 games in total, team B are disadvantaged because of the additional fatigue they face.

You aren't comparing like with like.

True, however it's much more comparing like for like than with cup competitions for reasons mentioned on various posts.

Anyway as for heavy schedule, I posted comparisons on schedules too at one point and then there was hardly difference, yet league results were still clearly better. Naturally now it has been easier on that front.

weststandvoice said:
As for "I really think deep down even such know that Sherwood would've gotten us through UEL qualifications and UEL group stage" this is you guessing.

Well, of course - but I'd say likelihood of us getting past Tbilisi, Tromsö, Anzhi and Sheriff would've been rather good under Tim.

weststandvoice said:
The facts are, that we were projectile vomited out of all 3 cup competitions in double time under Tim.

We went out against Spammers, Arsenal and Benfica, last season AVB was kicked out by Leeds, Norwich and Basle. Big difference there?

THFCSPURS19 · Apr 20, 2014

weststandvoice said:
I'm not sure a poll is required and I don't know how to add one, but Tim gets my vote.

A poll did you say?- http://www.spurscommunity.co.uk/index.php?threads/avb-vs-sherwood-the-ultimate-showdown.107950/

CrazyHeart · Apr 20, 2014

Make that 5 wins out of 5 for AVB this weekend at Zenit...

idontgetit · Apr 20, 2014

I think the record of Russian footballers in England says enough about the absurdity of drawing comparisons between the Prem and Russian league

CrazyHeart · Apr 20, 2014

idontgetit said:
I think the record of Russian footballers in England says enough about the absurdity of drawing comparisons between the Prem and Russian league

That's ridiculous. Your statement implies that he's in charge of a top Premiership team playing in a Russian league. It's all relative and whatever deficiencies you think you recognise in Russian football doesn't somehow make Zenit immune to them. He walked into a high-pressured job with sky high expectations and he's meeting them. Now, if only our board gave him the players he wanted, the latitude to do his job and not undermine him at every turn things would've been different. And since this is an AVB thread, his continued 100% record where others have failed is very relevant.

weststandvoice · Apr 20, 2014

FinnYid said:
True, however it's much more comparing like for like than with cup competitions for reasons mentioned on various posts.

Nicely sidestepped.

Anyway as for heavy schedule, I posted comparisons on schedules too at one point and then there was hardly difference, yet league results were still clearly better. Naturally now it has been easier on that front.

So you do agree that the cumulative number of games is pivotal, or somehow, not pivotal?

Well, of course - but I'd say likelihood of us getting past Tbilisi, Tromsö, Anzhi and Sheriff would've been rather good under Tim.

Struggling to see what this means, we're comparing the what actually occurred.

We went out against Spammers, Arsenal and Benfica, last season AVB was kicked out by Leeds, Norwich and Basle. Big difference there?

I don't disagree, but then I don't see what relevance that has either.

idontgetit · Apr 20, 2014

CrazyHeart said:
That's ridiculous. Your statement implies that he's in charge of a top Premiership team playing in a Russian league. It's all relative and whatever deficiencies you think you recognise in Russian football doesn't somehow make Zenit immune to them. He walked into a high-pressured job with sky high expectations and he's meeting them. Now, if only our board gave him the players he wanted, the latitude to do his job and not undermine him at every turn things would've been different. And since this is an AVB thread, his continued 100% record where others have failed is very relevant.

Yeah if only that bellend Dany Boy had gone out and fetched Hulk, Moutinho, Bale, Falcao, Messi, Ronaldo, Xavi, Pele etc this summer then poor old victimised AVB would have had an easier time of things. Instead he had to make do with a top4 squad and only £100m worth of investment (I blame Tory cuts to be honest, the bastards).

I mean he only had like what.....18 whole months in the prem anyway to instigate some semblance of team attacking football and the fact it was getting progressively worse was totally misleading. I'm sure he would have turned it around once Aaron Lennon hit a purple patch and Robert Soldado learned to play up front on his own in front of a midfield that pass the ball like a fat kid passes cake.

I think the worst people in this whole saga are actually Adebayor and BAE for not being available for selection very often and that jocking showpony Lamela who thinks he flounce around on the bench all year despite costing us 30m smackers

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