Sherwood: Players telling me I'll be sacked

XSuicideBunnyX · May 9, 2014

absolute bobbins said:
Ajax inferior to Spurs, don't be silly! Do you think Tim's Spurs would defeat FdB's Ajax? Do you think Tim could win four titles on the spin in the Eredivisie?

What you don't get is that it is nothing to do with presentation, it is everything to do with substance.

I'd say we should beat Ajax - our players are just better than them.

I don't even want to imagine a scoreline with FdB's Spurs against Tim's Ajax! Stupid question anyway - Tim would get sacked halfway through the game for playing his demented 4-4-2, instead of Ajax's well-worked 4-3-3.

gregga · May 9, 2014

BringBack_leGin said:
What nobody is realising, in the press or amongst the fans, is that had Levy told Tim earlier that he was being sacked, Tim A) might have quit on the spot, leaving us in the lurch and embarassing the club, or B) might have taken his eye off the ball completely (Harry Style) leading to very poor results and league placement. Then there's option C) Tim actually then does very well and gets us into the CL while producing some great football (unlikely but always a possibility), leaving Levy to explain why he's sacked a huge success of a manager.

Like it or not, whether Tim is being sacked or not, this was the only way to do things.

I agree with the first paragraph but we really should have kept a lid on the rumours. How hard can it be?

rupsmith · May 9, 2014

absolute bobbins said:
Ajax inferior to Spurs, don't be silly! Do you think Tim's Spurs would defeat FdB's Ajax?

What you don't get is that it is nothing to do with presentation, it is everything to do with substance.

Why are you so sure that Ajax would beat us? After pretty much knowing that they would win the league title this was the result of their European adventure.

http://www1.skysports.com/football/live/match/306094/report

The Eredivisie is an inferior league. Im surprised you think otherwise.

What "substance" are you talking about?
Results? He has got that.
A better style than AVB almost overnight? He has got that
More goals than AVB? He has got that

What more could he have done without a preseason, and at least some time to determine a playing style and the type of players he needs.

As a (what seems to) caretaker manager, he has done an exceptional job and should be lauded.

Its a shame it has to end this way. If we don't get a proven manager, I'd much rather keep Tim than go by perception.

gregga · May 9, 2014

rupsmith said:
Why are you so sure that Ajax would beat us? After pretty much knowing that they would win the league title this was the result of their European adventure.

http://www1.skysports.com/football/live/match/306094/report

The Eredivisie is an inferior league. Im surprised you think otherwise.

What "substance" are you talking about?
Results? He has got that.
A better style than AVB almost overnight? He has got that
More goals than AVB? He has got that

What more could he have done without a preseason, and at least some time to determine a playing style and the type of players he needs.

As a (what seems to) caretaker manager, he has done an exceptional job and should be lauded.

Its a shame it has to end this way. If we don't get a proven manager, I'd much rather keep Tim than go by perception.

Our style is a total bag of shite. He is alienating key/expensive players. He got us scoring more goals and deserves credit for that but to say he has done an exceptional job is ridiculous. Benitez did an exceptional job for a caretakers - got the team playing better football and won a trophy.

Locotoro · May 9, 2014

BringBack_leGin said:
As opposed to pigeons that don't fly?

Have you never seen a walking pigeon

rupsmith · May 9, 2014

gregga said:
Our style is a total bag of shite. He is alienating key/expensive players. He got us scoring more goals and deserves credit for that but to say he has done an exceptional job is ridiculous. Benitez did an exceptional job for a caretakers - got the team playing better football and won a trophy.

Benitez was managing wChelsea. A team with experience and a team full of winners. Not a team full of newcomers from other leagues.

Im not saying we are Barcelona but we definitely started playing more of an attacking style than we did under AVB. Your assertion that he has alienated "key/expensive" players does not matter a jot since he has got us results that he could get with the squad he inherited and the injuries it had.

Ok - enough if you were to contend that it could have been better, he is not Rafa Benitez or some other "big name". He was our youth coach with very limited experience and to get us (hopefully) to a 6th place finish is, in my humble view, an exceptional performance.

And I have to say, maybe its the evolution of online communication, but no one seems to be backing up their "WTF" or "Doh!" with any analysis or counter arguments. Mildly annoying.

Locotoro · May 9, 2014

rupsmith said:
Why are you so sure that Ajax would beat us? After pretty much knowing that they would win the league title this was the result of their European adventure.

http://www1.skysports.com/football/live/match/306094/report

The Eredivisie is an inferior league. Im surprised you think otherwise.

What "substance" are you talking about?
Results? He has got that.
A better style than AVB almost overnight? He has got that
More goals than AVB? He has got that

What more could he have done without a preseason, and at least some time to determine a playing style and the type of players he needs.

As a (what seems to) caretaker manager, he has done an exceptional job and should be lauded.

Its a shame it has to end this way. If we don't get a proven manager, I'd much rather keep Tim than go by perception.

Results? He has got that. - No, actually he has done only nominally better than his predecessor and still failed to achieve his self-confessed top 4 target.

A better style than AVB almost overnight? He has got that. - Sorry, but the disorganised mess that we see on the pitch is not a style, its an abomination!

More goals than AVB? He has got that - Yes, more goals at both ends. Less clean sheets and more high scoring thrashings. You win football matches not only by scoring goals but by not conceding.

I have nothing against Sherwood and I was willing to give him a chance but he is very much the mini-Harry in that everything is about him. He should have kept his mouth shut and got on with the job. His constant soundbites have done more to fuel speculation than anything the club have done over the last 6 or 7 months.

Unfortunately, I would much rather go with an unknown option than stick with Tim as he seems to be operating a scorched earth policy with the players and with the media.

Lufti · May 9, 2014

"I have to wait to see the chairman and see what the future holds. We have already discussed pre-season and I gave a list of players to the chairman and to [sporting director] Franco Baldini of who I recommend we keep, who I recommend leave and who I recommend come in. They haven't given me an indication how they are moving forward with that."

This part made me chuckle, yeah I wonder why they haven't got back to you on that list?

Jamturk · May 9, 2014

I don't have any sympathy for Tim Sherwood.

He came with arrogance

No empathy for players new to the league and country

You live by the sword you die by.....

Ian Kane · May 9, 2014

Tim Sherwood: Position untenable. It's obvious this has been coming for at least the last month. He should have been put on gardening leave and moved as far away from the first team as possible to limit the damage he's already done. I'm sure between Steffen and Ramsey we could have coped easily.

It would have stopped this circus dead.

absolute bobbins · May 9, 2014

XSuicideBunnyX said:
I'd say we should beat Ajax - our players are just better than them.

I don't even want to imagine a scoreline with FdB's Spurs against Tim's Ajax! Stupid question anyway - Tim would get sacked halfway through the game for playing his demented 4-4-2, instead of Ajax's well-worked 4-3-3.

That's the thing, I said Tim's Spurs...He'd get a lesson from De Boer because a well trained team of average players will always beat an indisciplined rabble of good players.

rupsmith · May 9, 2014

Locotoro said:
Results? He has got that. - No, actually he has done only nominally better than his predecessor and still failed to achieve his self-confessed top 4 target.

A better style than AVB almost overnight? He has got that. - Sorry, but the disorganised mess that we see on the pitch is not a style, its an abomination!

More goals than AVB? He has got that - Yes, more goals at both ends. Less clean sheets and more high scoring thrashings. You win football matches not only by scoring goals but by not conceding.

I have nothing against Sherwood and I was willing to give him a chance but he is very much the mini-Harry in that everything is about him. He should have kept his mouth shut and got on with the job. His constant soundbites have done more to fuel speculation than anything the club have done over the last 6 or 7 months.

Unfortunately, I would much rather go with an unknown option than stick with Tim as he seems to be operating a scorched earth policy with the players and with the media.

Davidmatzdorf, forgive me but I will have to borrow your analysis from another post.

DM had posted this before the Stoke game

"The rewriting of facts and history, based on prejudice and anger, continues apace. Here are some statistics that demonstrate how Sherwood has 'fucked up our season' since AVB left:

AVB:
16 league games
8 wins, 3 draws, 5 losses
27 points
1.69 points/game (64.22 points over a 38 game season)
0.58 goals scored/game
0.81 goals conceded/game
-0.23 goal differential/game

Sherwood:
19 league games
11 wins, 3 draws, 5 losses
1.89 points/game (71.82 points over a 38 game season)
1.44 goals scored/game
1.12 goals conceded/game
+0.32 goal differential/game

Every performance indicator there except goals conceded favours Sherwood. It isn't even close on the most important measure, which is points/game."

As for style on the pitch, what exactly were you expecting? How could someone dismantle AVB's impotent approach overnight. Tim's philosophy is clearly possession based and quickly moving and - given the right players - is the best possible way forward. What else could he have done?

This isn't Football Manager

Roynie · May 9, 2014

Jamturk said:
I don't have any sympathy for Tim Sherwood.

He came with arrogance

No empathy for players new to the league and country

You live by the sword you die by.....

To be fair we don't know how he actually dealt with the players in training. Some of them were not playing well and certainly when they capitulate in the games against the top 4 they needed a bollocking and they got it but he shouldn't have done it publicly. He did get Ade's respect although he has evidently upset others but, as TS said, he is not a baby-sitter and they deserve to be told how it is after all they are on huge wages. All that said, certainly his media skills are woefully lacking, but that can taught.

I just hope his replacement is appointed sooner rather than later.

Donki · May 9, 2014

I'm not his biggest fan but this makes us look like a complete farce, it's embarrassing.

Roynie · May 9, 2014

Donki said:
I'm not his biggest fan but this makes us look like a complete farce, it's embarrassing.

AGAIN!

avonspurs · May 9, 2014

rupsmith said:
And I have to say, maybe its the evolution of online communication, but no one seems to be backing up their "WTF" or "Doh!" with any analysis or counter arguments. Mildly annoying.

I've read some tosh before but this takes the biscuit.

Plenty of people have posted coherent and reasoned arguments as to why they feel TS isn't the man to take spurs forward. However, you - and others like you - continue to start their counter-arguments with this whole media perception and how he comes across in interviews as being the SOLE reason people don't want him - indeed, your first post in this thread was about TS and his media image.

People have raised the following:
(1) lack of a discernible system
(2) lack of tactical awareness and the inability to tackle longstanding issues (such as our defensive frailty)
(3) public humiliation of players

And plenty more.

avonspurs · May 9, 2014

Donki said:
I'm not his biggest fan but this makes us look like a complete farce, it's embarrassing.

How? TS himself, previously, has come out and said that him and Levy will be sitting down at the end of the season. Just because the media are running with stories doesn't embarrass me as a spurs fan.

Geyzer Soze · May 9, 2014

rupsmith said:
Davidmatzdorf, forgive me but I will have to borrow your analysis from another post.

DM had posted this before the Stoke game

"The rewriting of facts and history, based on prejudice and anger, continues apace. Here are some statistics that demonstrate how Sherwood has 'fucked up our season' since AVB left:

AVB:
16 league games
8 wins, 3 draws, 5 losses
27 points
1.69 points/game (64.22 points over a 38 game season)
0.58 goals scored/game
0.81 goals conceded/game
-0.23 goal differential/game

Sherwood:
19 league games
11 wins, 3 draws, 5 losses
1.89 points/game (71.82 points over a 38 game season)
1.44 goals scored/game
1.12 goals conceded/game
+0.32 goal differential/game

Every performance indicator there except goals conceded favours Sherwood. It isn't even close on the most important measure, which is points/game."

As for style on the pitch, what exactly were you expecting? How could someone dismantle AVB's impotent approach overnight. Tim's philosophy is clearly possession based and quickly moving and - given the right players - is the best possible way forward. What else could he have done?

This isn't Football Manager

Adebayor says you're welcome

absolute bobbins · May 9, 2014

rupsmith said:
As for style on the pitch, what exactly were you expecting? How could someone dismantle AVB's impotent approach overnight. Tim's philosophy is clearly possession based and quickly moving and - given the right players - is the best possible way forward. What else could he have done?

This isn't Football Manager

You do know Spurs play in White, right? We play slow, turgid, long ball football under Tim. Under AVB it was too slow at the end but the opposition never had the ball, Tim would have won the fans over if he stuck to AVB's blue print but upped the tempo. He would have even had reason for some of the swagger and we could have forgiven some of the lies.

I'm surprised you didn't know Spurs play in white because you do seem to be very observant when you mention that this isn't Football Manager, you're right it isn't. it's just a shame that Tim hasn't realised it.
He seems not to have noticed that he has to manage people and that can treat seasoned pro's like some under 18's desperate for a contract.

The sooner you realise that what you think is passion and forthrightness is little more than crass, brainless bravado the better.

chinaman · May 9, 2014

That's the divisive nature of Dim. See he doesn't only cause division within the club, he's also causing division among the fans.

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