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Sherwood: Players telling me I'll be sacked

Gaz_Gammon

Well-Known Member
Apr 16, 2005
16,047
18,013
I've read some tosh before but this takes the biscuit.

Plenty of people have posted coherent and reasoned arguments as to why they feel TS isn't the man to take spurs forward.
People have raised the following:
(1) lack of a discernible system
(2) lack of tactical awareness and the inability to tackle longstanding issues (such as our defensive frailty)
(3) public humiliation of players

And plenty more.

In this thread a mighty twenty different posters have voiced their opinion, hardly anything to suggest that you opinion is one hundred percent correct. Unless you have a straw poll of thirty five thousand others?

Over the past decade Spurs have finished higher in the PL than at any previous time in PL history.

Finishing fifth (or thereabouts) would suggest to anyone who knows the shape of a football that given that fact, that a lack of a system, tactical awareness has been evident throughout that period and not just over one half a season? Is that not the reason for why we finish lower than a team put together by billionaire owners?

Your point about "public humiliation of players" is indeed "tosh" as you put it. In fact i'd prefer the word crap to describe that point.
 

Gaz_Gammon

Well-Known Member
Apr 16, 2005
16,047
18,013
I think the last time was 96 and it would have made Ajax the only side to retain the Champions League ever.

Didn't Jol leave by mutual consent with Ajax in fifth or sixth and didn't Ajax go through a long barren spell without winning the league before de Boer took over?

No FDB took control of Ajax (from Jol) after (i think) seventeen games of 2010 and went on to win the league. Jol leaving the club five points off the lead (i think).
 

avonspurs

MoPo's lover
Apr 28, 2006
4,072
4,100
Kindly read my post on a lack of a "system" and "tactical awareness".

As for "the inability to tackle longstanding issues" what was he supposed to do when Kaboul and Verts and Daws and Chiriches were out due to injury and never able to get a decent partnership going ? Give birth to Rio Ferdinand?

Public humiliation of players? I fully can understand this point of view and can understand why you would not like his style. But he has never criticised individual players - even the Sandro one was not exactly a criticism of Sandro as a person, he just said that his form was not good enough. I have no issues him questioning the team's drive. After the Chelsea game, we have been a much much tougher team.

Seriously, if that post of yours is how you view TS's system then you and I are not watching the same matches.

In what games have we dominated possession? In what games have we had our wingers providing natural width? We have Lennon as Eriksen provides no width at all. Rose does his best, but by doing so leaves gaping holes on the left hand side.

Is this his system? Seriously? Honestly? Is this what you perceive his system to be? If it is, we are f**ked as we will never progress past beating the teams with slightly worse players than us because of the individual skills (ie Eriksen) of our players as opposd to the system working

As of for the injuries, if we are having problems in one area you don't just ignore them in the hope that it will sort itself out. If we have a lack of natural CB because of injuries, play a DM to provide solidity in front of them. Don't just ignore it and hope that Eriksen will score another free kick.

The insight from you was wonderful; it read like it was written by TS himself. Personally I think it's the Emperors new clothes: you think it sounds/looks good; in reality, there is nothing there.
 

CrazyHeart

Well-Known Member
Oct 26, 2013
3,702
4,288
Davidmatzdorf, forgive me but I will have to borrow your analysis from another post.

DM had posted this before the Stoke game

"The rewriting of facts and history, based on prejudice and anger, continues apace. Here are some statistics that demonstrate how Sherwood has 'fucked up our season' since AVB left:

AVB:
16 league games
8 wins, 3 draws, 5 losses
27 points
1.69 points/game (64.22 points over a 38 game season)
0.58 goals scored/game
0.81 goals conceded/game
-0.23 goal differential/game

Sherwood:
19 league games
11 wins, 3 draws, 5 losses
1.89 points/game (71.82 points over a 38 game season)
1.44 goals scored/game
1.12 goals conceded/game
+0.32 goal differential/game

Every performance indicator there except goals conceded favours Sherwood. It isn't even close on the most important measure, which is points/game.
"

As for style on the pitch, what exactly were you expecting? How could someone dismantle AVB's impotent approach overnight. Tim's philosophy is clearly possession based and quickly moving and - given the right players - is the best possible way forward. What else could he have done?

This isn't Football Manager

Actually what I saw was Tim capitalising on the work AVB put into the team's morale while lacking any longevity to see it through. Cup disasters and tactical naivety soon preceded player unrest and it came finally crashing down when he felt the need to insult a senior player publicly. I'm glad he's leaving.
 

Gaz_Gammon

Well-Known Member
Apr 16, 2005
16,047
18,013
Actually what I saw was Tim capitalising on the work AVB put into the team's morale while lacking any longevity to see it through. Cup disasters and tactical naivety soon preceded player unrest and it came finally crashing down when he felt the need to insult a senior player publicly. I'm glad he's leaving.


Are you including the recall to the first team of Ade or would you have willingly have foregone his 15 goals this season?

Morale':
"the confidence, enthusiasm, and discipline of a person or group at a particular time"


He certainly had the above in spades didn't he.
 

bigspurs

Well-Known Member
Aug 9, 2005
3,193
2,419
I honestly can't remember a more humiliating season in the last 30 years of supporting this club. I think it has been compounded by high expectations, but fucking hell...
 

Gaz_Gammon

Well-Known Member
Apr 16, 2005
16,047
18,013
I honestly can't remember a more humiliating season in the last 30 years of supporting this club. I think it has been compounded by high expectations, but fucking hell...


Then you are either too young to remember when we were relegated or have selective memory. I was there that day and believe me this season has been an absolute blast compared that fucking journey!
 

UbeAstard

Well-Known Member
May 31, 2005
3,354
2,413
Tim's philosophy is clearly possession based and quickly moving and - given the right players - is the best possible way forward. What else could he have done?

This isn't Football Manager

You can have whatever possession base philosophy you want but you MUST have some idea of what you do when you don't have that possession or you come across a team with identical idea.
 

Hot$pur4Life

Active Member
Jul 4, 2012
298
300
It's an ABSOLUTE disgrace to disprect your coach like that. Wouldn't dream of talking to my boss in that fashion. I'd rather sell all of the incompetent twats who don't know their place;would you see this behavior out of Ledley, keano?
 

will8587

Well-Known Member
Jul 17, 2006
1,342
419
Then you are either too young to remember when we were relegated or have selective memory. I was there that day and believe me this season has been an absolute blast compared that fucking journey!

You forgot the third option- you're shit at maths.

CrazyHeart has been following Spurs for 30 years, which goes back to 1984. Spurs were relegated in 1977 (37 years ago).
 

newbie

Well-Known Member
Jul 16, 2004
6,052
6,343
Love or hate Tim, the conduct of our club is shameful and why (money and prestige a side) would you want to manage spurs. Not saying I would not have sacked all our managers jol a side, but I think they way we conduct our selves is terrible.
 
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Yid

Well Endowed Member
Jul 5, 2013
1,254
1,366
Its clear that you haven't played much of the game before - I mean on a football field and not on your PC...................................................
..........................................................................................
It obviously looks brilliant on a fcking presentation in a corporate board room as well because AVB convinced both Chelsea and Dan Levy that he was the man to give money to buy the players to perform those roles.
..............................................................................................
Levy realised AVB was a smooth talking mistake and hired Tim because he had a lot of respect for him and wanted to get the next decision right - so needed a decent caretaker
.......................................................................................................
Tim quickly realised that the rotation philosophy could not be incorporated without the right ingredients and time. .............................................................................................
- Give the creative players the ball ASAP (Benteleb performed this role very very well indeed) - Sandro, Dembele, Paulinho and Capoue (the 'much the muchness') did not. ......................................................................................................

With the change in philosophy (which AVB failed to implement over 1.5 years), Tim managed to get the team going and will hopefully get us to 6th spot.

In my view, Tim has done very well indeed and deserves our utmost respect. If we don't get a genuine genuine upgrade, I would much rather keep him than go in for some person who is unaware of the competitiveness of the premier league.

o_O Wow, just wow, brother.
I've heard some ridiculous things on this topic, but your hyperbole is right up there with some of the most amusing posts so far, m8. :LOL:

I'd like to address each one of your posts, but there is neither time nor space to do so adequately.
Thus I'll just briefly touch upon a couple of things (primarily emphasized above in bold font), as follows:

First of all (not that I haven't played football), but what does playing football have to do with comprehending football? I'll tell you what, more often than not - it means absolutely "jack" and "shit".

In fact, the man you bring up (AVB) as an example of supposed failure (in terms of coaching football) is the ultimate proof of that. He played no football, yet his insight into tactics and strategy helped him to win a "quadruple" in one of the top 5 UEFA leagues (in 1 season).
The same AVB whose understanding of football (as a child) has left quite an impression on the great Bobby Robson. I'll just leave it at that for now.

You claim AVB convinced Levy to buy the players he wanted (to implement your so-called "corporate boardroom presentation"), yet (according to many sources) AVB didn't end up with those players (Hulk, Moutinho, David Villa, etc).

As far as Tim is concerned, the proverbial horse has been beaten to death, but the following absolutely take the cake -->>

"Levy realised AVB was a smooth talking mistake and hired Tim because he had a lot of respect for him"

Just :ROFLMAO: ...

"Tim quickly realised that the rotation philosophy could not be incorporated without the right ingredients and time."

I'm sorry m8, but quick lateral thinking is not one of Tim's qualities...It just isn't.

"Sandro, Dembele, Paulinho and Capoue (the 'much the muchness')"

Really now? :facepalm:

"With the change in philosophy (which AVB failed to implement over 1.5 years), Tim managed to get the team going and will hopefully get us to 6th spot."

"Tim managed to get the team going backwards, and will hopefully get the heck out of our club in a timely manner". :angelic:

"Tim has done very well indeed and deserves our utmost respect."

No, no, and no! Tim is simply :notworthy: of our great Spurs!

COYS!
 

UbeAstard

Well-Known Member
May 31, 2005
3,354
2,413
He should have been appointed as a caretaker and if he didn't want that the off you go mate. He deserves to be told that he's gone (if he hasn't already) and the players should just wait patiently for that moment. I mean come on it's only a couple days!! what more can he do??

The 18 month contract when it was announced told me he was a caretaker, how can an intentions of an 18 month contract be ambiguous?
Tim must have known he needed to perform exceptionally well for anything thing else. Results in general have been good, results against competitors -very poor, media interviews which reflect on the club and manager -poor in my opinion, relationships with players -shows signs of irritation which will eventually escalate into club disaster.
All these need to be considered.
 

UbeAstard

Well-Known Member
May 31, 2005
3,354
2,413
Are you including the recall to the first team of Ade or would you have willingly have foregone his 15 goals this season?

Morale':
"the confidence, enthusiasm, and discipline of a person or group at a particular time"


He certainly had the above in spades didn't he.

I have already said I would willingly fore go his goals. Anyone who undermines the manager as he has done then comes out and glorifies the event to the media would/should be gone from most clubs.
 

striebs

Well-Known Member
Mar 18, 2004
4,504
667
This is symptomatic of the board of directors undermining the head coaches authority .
 

goughie1966

Well-Known Member
Aug 28, 2008
5,150
17,874
Its clear that you haven't played much of the game before - I mean on a football field and not on your PC.

AVB had a rotation philosophy - the objective of the philosophy is keep possession of the ball, to rotate the ball across the field from left to right - (Dembele, Chadli, Paulinho, Lennon, Walker, Rose) and as the opposition re-adjusts, your creative players (Eriksen, Siggy, Lamela) thread the ball through to razor sharp finishers (Soldado) who can finish with one touch. If the ball is lost then your defensive midfielders (Sandro, Etienne) snap in to recover it and the rotation commences again.

It is brilliant to aspire to and only two teams in the world play it successfully - Barcelona as a general philosophy and Bayern Munich. The downside of the philosophy firstly is that it has not been played successfully in the UK before. Secondly, the players who can perform those roles are some of the best players in the world - Xavi, Iniesta, Busquests and Messi. Even Fabregas hasnt fully adjusted to it.

This tikka takka football is already dead. It's been found out. This style of football worked very well for Barcelona for a couple of years and Pep took it to Bayern this year. But Bayern were destroyed by Real Madrid despite their dominance of possession and number of passes they had compared to RM.

Barcelona have been found out this year in Spain. Teams park the bus and pick them off on the counter. Sides at the bottom they would have hammered a few years ago they have struggled against this season.

If Barcelona and Bayern are starting to fail with this system I've no idea how we could even consider playing this way.
 
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