Ratings Vs West Ham

THFCSPURS19 said:

And I'm just sitting here waiting for @Bus-Conductor .



And hopefully an argument between him and @Mr Pink

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This is where I miss Spurs Bear!

Bulletspur said:

This is where I miss Spurs Bear!

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Spurs Bear returned...

yankspurs said:

Lloris - 8 (his usual good self)
Naughton - 4(was meh then was sent off on the penalty. Automatic deduction)
Dier - 9(soooooo tempted to go 10 here. What a debut. Great in the shalke friendly. Fantastic today then scored the winner. Nothing bad to say. MOTM)
Kaboul - 5(not a good game at all. A few stupid mistakes.)
Rose - 5.5(how many more crosses you gonna give up?)
Capoue - 7(good at CM. Did well at center half too)
Bentaleb - 5(gave the ball away way too often. Passing wasnt great. Not his best game. I know he could do alot better. Alot of potential here, IMO)
Lennon - 4(same as always. Runs and tracks back somewhat. Shit in every other regard. Get rid already.)
Eriksen - 6(not his best)
Lamela - 6(tried to do too much but looked to be the only player trying to create something out there)
Ade - 3(terrible. Not fit at all. Cant head the ball. Awful touches, bad hold up. Bad vision.)

Subs
Holtby - 6(energetic. Game changed when he came on)
Townsend - 6(game changed when he came on. actually getting his shots on target for a change. Still needs to learn to be a teammate and run with his head up)
Kane - NET (was poor until that pass, really. But 10 min isnt enough time to give a rating)

Poch - 6(Didnt like the CM pairing from the start. Holtby or Mason should have started over Bentaleb. Should've subbed Holtby for Bentaleb instead of Lamela when he came on. Left Ade on wayyyy to long. You could see early on in the first half he wasnt fit at all. Should've gone off at half. Poor man management, IMO. But Holtby and Townsend changed the game. Thought he made the right call to shift Capoue to center back when Naughton was sent off. Would have lost if we sticked with 3 at the back, IMO.)

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Better get used to watching Bentaleb playing in our midfield the rest of the season because he will.

lloris 7
naughton 5
rose 6
kaboul 5
capoue 6
dier 8
bentaleb 6
eriksen 6
lamela 5
Lennon 5
ade 6

holtby 5
Townsend 7
Kane 6

stemark44 said:

Better get used to watching Bentaleb playing in our midfield the rest of the season because he will.

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I think you could be right, he has the ability to provide incisive forward passes even if they don't always reach the intended target; the vision and mentality is certainly there. It will be interesting to see who holds down the 2 midfield spots when Sandro, Paulinho & Dembele are all at full fitness.

Ben taleb was the best player on the park today and has one hell of a future ahead of him.

Mornstar said:

Ben taleb was the best player on the park today and has one hell of a future ahead of him.

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Got terrorised according to some lol

Lloris 8 would of been a 10 only for 1 cross in the first half where he misjudged the flight of the ball + 2 bad kicks in first half otherwise flawless
Naughton 6 really up for it until sending off.. unlucky
Kaboul 6 in first challenge with Cole got bullied the next 4 challenges made sure it didn't happen again & set the tone for a fighting spirit.. caught a yard short in his first few steps... the mind was willing was the body?
Dier 9 Took 20 mins or so to get the pace of PL otherwise positioning & decision making really impressive, looks a proper defender... at 4 ml a steal
Rose 7 loads of heart & determination, was having a blinder until we went down to 10, forced to tuck in to CH's after that which resulted in cross's coming in from his wing.. a re-adjustment at half time solved that.. showing promising signs
Eriksen 6 far from his greatest game & it looks like attack still has to gel,, still showed moments of quality at times,
Lamela 6 mixed bag.. some encouraging signs.. sometimes trying to overplay in areas he shouldn't... has to get a period of consecutive games (10) for attack to get an understanding .... ignore Gullit & the BBC Producers pre-agenda
Capoue 7 showing why he was signed when in midfield.. still trying to get to grips with what is allowed & not when in defence which was a telling factor in his 1 big mistake in defence, luckily it only cost us a corner.. was up for the fight.. would he of been last year under Sherwood?
Bentaleb 6 not up to speed of game first half.. far more progressive in 2nd half not a performance without fault, however I'm a massive fan of his having seen what he is capable of at underage level.. remember he's only 19. fans need to support him rather than criticise at his age
Lennon 6 Work ethic fine.. we need more quality though.. the transfer window door is still open ..
I'd cash in
Adebayor 5 not up to speed regarding fitness & was the main cause of West Ham getting a grip of the game after 20mins
Kane ok
Townsend 6 looked like he had something to prove when he came on.. has he the work ethic to survive under Pochetttino remains to be seen

Capoue was my MOM.

Citizen Poch & The Glorious Revolution

I think it's safe to say the revolution is still at the plotting stage. Ché Poch and Fidel Freund must still be at the clandestine meeting at apartments of sympathetic of fellow conspirators Freund's cone shed stage. Huddled round kitchen tables, smoking gitanes and swilling revolutionary vodka, figuring out which music tactics will be deemed anti regime and banned, which members of the party players will be more equal amongst equals. Because they sure as shit haven't stormed the presidential palace, they haven't even managed any civil disobedience yet.

Revolution takes time. And Citizen Poch must be given time. He's had a month with some and a week or two with others. We are never going to see a drastic difference. But we must be honest too. And if we are we have to say, this was a pretty poor performance with all the old familiar weaknesses to the fore, in fact spells of that game were worse than some spells we saw last year form both managers.

Passing and movement was as stultified and unimaginative as it was under AVB and, most disappointingly, pressing and work off the ball was as bad as it ever was under Sherwood. Frankly that game was a mess. Continually the wide players allowed balls into to box unpressed, there was zero pressing from the front as Adebayor had one of those days when he swans around looking regally put out.

Worst of all was our abject fucking carelessness with the ball. Time and time and time again stupid sloppy passes were made, particularly in the final third.

We were allowing West Ham to dictate the tempo and do exactly what Allardyce teams want to do, which is rattle you. We were allowing pressure to build and something was going to give. What did give was a pretty harsh penalty, followed by the most ridiculous red card I've seen for quite a while. I am completely at a loss to explain. Even the second biggest wanker in football commentary world said it was harsh, and he's a spurs hating cocknocker.

I didn't and still don't agree with Pochettino's re-organisation post red. Putting Capoue back to CB drastically weakened the midfield, where Bentaleb and Eriksen wouldn't have been strong enough in normal circumstances, let alone when outnumbered. This is a pretty shit West Ham team, and that was our one saving grace. Because a half decent side would have punished us for our mistakes.

I have no problem with swapping Lennon for Townsend. Fresh legs on the break and a player who has more chutzpah than Lennon is OK with me. I personally would have swapped Eriksen for Holtby and left Lamela on. Eriksen was looking a bit lost. Nobody looked good when it was 10 v 11 but Lamela was at least looking like he wanted to be out there. I accept Pochettino didn't know West ham were about to even the numbers. I'm pretty sure if he'd waited until after he'd have left Lamela on the pitch.

I did completely agree with the Kane/Adebayor swap. I wouldn't have cared if it was Soldado/Adebayor either, we just needed to get Adebayor off.

The 10 v 10 phase was just a scrappy free for all really.

I certainly didn't see the winner coming, but as someone who hates those wankers with a passion, it was very welcome, regardless of the performance.

Bentaleb to Kane to Dier. Youth revolution ?


Individual scapegoating:

Lloris - One world class save that undoubtedly earned us the points we ended up with.

Naughton - Was OK until his ludicrous sending off.

Kaboul - Wasn't as bad as some were saying in the Match thread, wastn't great either though, was also caught dithering in possession badly once.

Dier - Was doing OK as a CB. Ho hum as a RB. But took his goal brilliantly. Well done kid.

Capoue - Was doing well enough until the team seemed to down tools after the first 10 minutes. Leaving only him and Lamela that seemed to want to press or tackle anyone. Did OK at CB.

Bentaleb - Pochettino really needs to work on what he does when he doesn't have the ball but nobody (on either side) saw more of the football than him. He's a good water carrier (and I don't mean that as any kind of slight - football needs them) and had a hand in the goal. But he struggled defensively at times, particularly when he'd lost Capoue as a partner. Decent enough game though.

Lamela - Some bright moments, but found it hard to flourish once we as a team stopped playing collectively. I like that he goes after the ball if he loses it and tries to get it back and presses opponents with intent. he also has a bit of a swagger when on the ball (the swagger doesn't always deliver on the promise but at least he exudes a bit of confidence, unlike some).

Eriksen - Pretty disappointing game really. Particularly by his own standards.

Lennon - Saw less ball than anyone. Offers less than anyone, including Townsend. And I say that as someone who doesn't think Townsend actually offers much of a tangible nature. He has mastered the art of whizzing around looking like he's working but he rarely ever actually makes contact with an opponent. It's all shadow pressing.

Holtby - Did OK.

Townsend - Right to swap him for Lennon, his head rarely cashes the cheques his ability writes, but, like Lamela, at least he offers some chutzpah.

I been saying all preseason soldado has been our best player and I think we saw that, fair enough he has been poor in front of goal but him with that AM 3 is a game changer.

The play, passing, tempo and performance of the AM 3 drastically improves when soldado is in there. Was shocked he didnt play.

Mornstar said:

Ben taleb was the best player on the park today and has one hell of a future ahead of him.

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Hi
What's your name/avatar from?
It looks vaguely familiar, like I saw it while flicking channels once. Ta

Townsend was bloody brilliant when he came on.

He gave us an impetus and a belief putting West Ham on the back foot.

I'm finding it really comical reading through comments on this game, especially on the match thread. The blistering rage vented at half time when we were a man down, followed by the resignation and bitterness throughout the second half, miraculously transformed into admiration for everyone as a result of a winner crafted by a substitute and scored by a defender.

Everyone seems to be getting an extra 1.5 points because we won. It's all absolute bullshit. We were very, very bad. It was the antithesis of everything that Pochettino is supposedly instilling in the team, from about the 14th minute right through to the point at which Collins got sent off, and it improved only slightly thereafter.

Unlike most people here, a shit performance doesn't transform itself in my memory into a good performance just because we won. I recall what I actually saw, not how I felt when Dier's goal went in.

It was garbage. The main issue was the fabled pressing high up the pitch: no one did it. Just no one. It never happened. The whole strategy depends on winning the ball high up the pitch and no one even tried.

The second issue was the way in which our attacking play closely resembled everything that was sterile and grim about our play under AVB. Lots of precise passing with no great attacking intent, followed by a vertical pass to a man who loses the ball. Last season we would have advanced to the edge of the penalty area and pissed around making horizontal passes for 45 seconds before losing the ball. Today we never got as far as the edge of the box.

The defence wasn't actually that bad, despite Naughton's attempt to wave at the crowd. Dier looked mature and composed. Kaboul combined generally good play with several specific incidents when he lost concentration and got the wrong side of his man or lost the ball in a sensitive area - it was a classic fan-adverse display, combining inconspicuous good play with highly visible howlers. Rose was facing a fired-up Downing and got fried quite often in the first 30 minutes, but still managed to prevent Downing from actually producing anything most of the time.

But if this season is going to be 'we've got our Tottenham back', then it isn't going to look anything like today. Today's football was just as congested, inhibited and unfocused as the worst of what we saw under AVB last autumn. And, like AVB's team last autumn, we squeaked a narrow win against an inferior team.

Individuals:

Lloris 7 Excellent when called upon as usual.

Naughton 5 Not bad until the incident, which deserved a penalty, but not a sending off.

Dier 8 Was going to get a 7 anyway for being mature and commanding, then gets an extra point as a result of the goal. Classy debut in every way.

Kaboul 5.5 Generally good work, let down by several serious lapses of concentration, strength and technique.

Rose 6 Given a very hard time by Downing in the first half, got a grip after half time and looked good going forward.

Capoue 6 Started well, but let West Ham, especially Noble, progrssively get control of midfield as the game proceeded. Stuck in defence for much of the game, where he acquitted himself without embarrassment.

Bentaleb 6 The opposite of Capoue: relatively un-influential until Collins was sent off, then took up a more advanced role and looked a good player.

Lamela 5 Just like last season: ineffective and easily bullied; disappointing. He tried, but nothing came off.

Eriksen 5 Uninfluential and pallid.

Lennon 5.5 Worked hard, but stuck tracking back for the central hour of the game, until after Collins was sent off. One good attacking move and a shot.

Adebayor 5.5 Lumbering performance. Always available for the ball, but nothing came off whenever he got it.


Holtby 6 Bustled about effectively, but no creativity.

Kane 7 A footballer with a brain who understands how to weight a through pass.

Townsend 6.5 Looked way more threatening than Lennon and, although I was concerned about his lack of defensive cover, it didn't prove to be a problem.

Must admit, we made Downing look like a world beater today.

I was disappointed that we didn't show more, like we've shown in some of pre season but I'm ecstatic with the result obviously.

Disappointed we didn't see more pressing and better movement but still think its important to remember that this was West Ham, who bloody love to rough you up and turn the game into a scrap. On top of that we had to endure over 35 minutes against them a man light.

Its Poch's first game and that wasn't our strongest and most experienced eleven. Expect our movement to be much sharper against QPR on Sunday and I'm certain he'll be left feeling a bit perplexed as to why we didn't see more pressing. I noticed Lamela trying to press but nobody else. Eriksen worries me a bit in this style..he's going to need to step it up.

All about the result today after going down to ten so early.

Lloris 7.5 one world class save that earned us the points

Naughton 6 half a mark off for decent performance prior to pen/sending off

Kaboul 5.5 just not the commanding presence he once was...Cole had the better of him a few times

Dier 8 great at CB I thought, and to score the winner in injury time, in style like that, on your debut

Rose 7 thought he had a good game even though Downing constantly tested him, but one great recovery challenge on him first half

Capoue 6.5 very good in the early stages of the game but then faded a bit, ok at CB

Bentaleb 6 decent, got stronger as the game wore on but was a bit overwhelmed at times

Lamela 6.5 to me he was the only one really trying to spark something and the only one of the front four looking to press...

Eriksen 5 thought he was poor, gave the ball away too cheaply at times and offered very little in terms of work rate and pressing

Lennon 5.5 pretty poor to, looked busy in stages in terms of defensive contribution but offered very little threat

Adebayor 5 just doesn't look fit at all, absolutely stunned that Soldado didn't start - had a good pre season and the first half against Toronto he showed great link up with the three AMs who started today.


Townsend did well in his wee cameo, Holtby ok.

davidmatzdorf said:

I'm finding it really comical reading through comments on this game, especially on the match thread. The blistering rage vented at half time when we were a man down, followed by the resignation and bitterness throughout the second half, miraculously transformed into admiration for everyone as a result of a winner crafted by a substitute and scored by a defender.

Everyone seems to be getting an extra 1.5 points because we won. It's all absolute bullshit. We were very, very bad. It was the antithesis of everything that Pochettino is supposedly instilling in the team, from about the 14th minute right through to the point at which Collins got sent off, and it improved only slightly thereafter.

Unlike most people here, a shit performance doesn't transform itself in my memory into a good performance just because we won. I recall what I actually saw, not how I felt when Dier's goal went in.

It was garbage. The main issue was the fabled pressing high up the pitch: no one did it. Just no one. It never happened. The whole strategy depends on winning the ball high up the pitch and no one even tried.

The second issue was the way in which our attacking play closely resembled everything that was sterile and grim about our play under AVB. Lots of precise passing with no great attacking intent, followed by a vertical pass to a man who loses the ball. Last season we would have advanced to the edge of the penalty area and pissed around making horizontal passes for 45 seconds before losing the ball. Today we never got as far as the edge of the box.

The defence wasn't actually that bad, despite Naughton's attempt to wave at the crowd. Dier looked mature and composed. Kaboul combined generally good play with several specific incidents when he lost concentration and got the wrong side of his man or lost the ball in a sensitive area - it was a classic fan-adverse display, combining inconspicuous good play with highly visible howlers. Rose was facing a fired-up Downing and got fried quite often in the first 30 minutes, but still managed to prevent Downing from actually producing anything most of the time.

But if this season is going to be 'we've got our Tottenham back', then it isn't going to look anything like today. Today's football was just as congested, inhibited and unfocused as the worst of what we saw under AVB last autumn. And, like AVB's team last autumn, we squeaked a narrow win against an inferior team.

Individuals:

Lloris 7 Excellent when called upon as usual.

Naughton 5 Not bad until the incident, which deserved a penalty, but not a sending off.

Dier 8 Was going to get a 7 anyway for being mature and commanding, then gets an extra point as a result of the goal. Classy debut in every way.

Kaboul 5.5 Generally good work, let down by several serious lapses of concentration, strength and technique.

Rose 6 Given a very hard time by Downing in the first half, got a grip after half time and looked good going forward.

Capoue 6 Started well, but let West Ham, especially Noble, progrssively get control of midfield as the game proceeded. Stuck in defence for much of the game, where he acquitted himself without embarrassment.

Bentaleb 6 The opposite of Capoue: relatively un-influential until Collins was sent off, then took up a more advanced role and looked a good player.

Lamela 5 Just like last season: ineffective and easily bullied; disappointing. He tried, but nothing came off.

Eriksen 5 Uninfluential and pallid.

Lennon 5.5 Worked hard, but stuck tracking back for the central hour of the game, until after Collins was sent off. One good attacking move and a shot.

Adebayor 5.5 Lumbering performance. Always available for the ball, but nothing came off whenever he got it.


Holtby 6 Bustled about effectively, but no creativity.

Kane 7 A footballer with a brain who understands how to weight a through pass.

Townsend 6.5 Looked way more threatening than Lennon and, although I was concerned about his lack of defensive cover, it didn't prove to be a problem.

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As much as you're right to point out fault when everyone is elated by the manner in which we took the points, lets remember that it was the first game and we went down to ten men after 27 minutes - which kind of throws you're preparation sideways a bit.

I do, however, expect to see quick improvement. We saw much more in pre season etc.

Hard to know what to write about that game. A comfortable first 10-15 mins where we had a lot of possession, but it was disappointing to see everything that we assume Poch is trying to drum into them, and has been evident at times in pre-season, be forgotten when it counts. Right from the start we were wasteful in the final third, that then spread to keeping possession as a whole, and it allowed West Ham into the game. I was quite disappointed with our pressing efforts, I thought we would come out and make that effort but we were very poor in this regard. I'd say a team like West Ham its ideal to press them high and not allow them up the pitch and to play long ball stuff.

I blame first day nerves for a tentative start.

The sending off was harsh in my opinion, and I' ll skip over that part of the game as we reorganised. When numbers were evened up we did battle away, finish strong and eventually created a decent chance. I thought all three subs, despite not being outstanding, did provide a shot in the arm for what was looking a pretty weary team that was struggling to create anything of note. So credit to Poch for that.

A long way to go... A good battling three points to start things off though.

Lloris - Crucial save at the end. Amazed he is still with us to be honest.

Naughton - No real comment to make before his sending off. Harsh decision.

Kaboul - For me, his problem is that since his injury comeback he is more tentative. He doesn't commit himself fully to running, jumping, tackling etc. and so this slight hesitancy allows opposition players a sniff against him and he can lose out in situations where he should be just cutting out danger easily. Will he ever get back to his best...?

Dier - To be honest I didn't really notice him much during the game. Wonderfully composed finish at the end to introduce himself which is all that matters for now.

Rose - Some crosses he should have cut out. Other times he was overloaded on that flank and needed some help. Was also in the right position two or three times in the first half to mop up danger. Couple of times got forward well as the match went on. Did ok.

Capoue - Looked tidy at centre mid to begin with, then filled in ably at centre back when needed. Bit of a powderpuff tackle on Downing though which should really have been a goal...

Bentaleb - Started a bit slowly, and as we all know his work off the ball needs to improve. That wont happen overnight though. He got better as the match went on though I thought and I was impressed with him purely for the fact that as the match went on he as much as anyone tried to step up to the plate and get us playing. He had Eriksen next to him who was exhausted for the last 20 mins and he compensated for this somewhat by seeing a lot of ball and trying to get our play going.

Eriksen - Below par. Did fill in at centre mid for large parts of the game but wasn't involved enough for me. And he spent the last 20 mins looking like he was about to collapse on the pitch at any moment so was just a passenger.

Lamela - He always looks to get on the ball, he works hard, he's trying... All admirable but we cant ignore that he is still coughing up the ball needlessly far too often, often doing simple things as well. I like the guy, but I think its going to be a case of him taking a while yet to adapt to the English game and we will have to be patient.

Lennon - Just looks massively uncomfortable in the role asked of him.

Adebayor - Not a good day at the office, chiefly culpable for the lack of pressing from the front. Kane must be close to nabbing that starting spot.

Subs:

Holtby - Was ok. Added a bit more energy.

Townsend - Also just seemed to add a bit more spark to the team. Doesn't always come off but he forced one good save and we had a different threat running at them all of a sudden.

Kane - He isn't the quickest, he isn't the strongest. He doesn't have the track record nor is he a household name. He made a bad decision prior to the goal where Rose was steaming up on the left to be played in and he shot himself... What I like about him though is that when he plays he makes something happen, and he gets himself into good positions even if he isn't finishing them off yet. A nice through ball for the goal and he has shown that he offers a balance in being a scorer and a creator. I think he should be close to getting that starting spot.

Re watched it a second time and I have to say Kaboul made so many errors I actually lost count.

Feel for the big man - going to be tough to get back now I feel.

And this isn't a knee jerk, he was poor last season to.

Lloris 7 - Everything that was asked of him he did well.

Naughton 5 - don't blame him for the sending off

Kaboul 4 - was bullied from the first minute and has definitely lost a yard of pace.

Dier 7 - saved the day and had a really steady game as CB and RB.

Rose 6 - had an ok game ,cleared the ball from a few dangerous positions but I thought we made Downing look like a very good player so he wasn't really doing his job that well.

Capoue 5 - ok in the early stages of the game but really poor when moved to CB.

Bentaleb 8 - thought he was our best player and especially in the last 30 minutes when along with Holtby and Townsend he drove us forward.

Lamela 4 - tried hard but with very little success....looks the part with his poise and foot on the ball but delivers very little.

Eriksen 5 - quiet enough game and really expected him to do better from the free -kick

Lennon 5 - did very little.

Adebayor 5 - poor effort and a really inconsistent performer.Some will say that he is still suffering from the effects of malaria but I have seen him play like this many times when fully fit.

The Townsend and Holtby substitutions really should have been made at half-time and until we buy another striker, I would start Kane over Adebayor and Soldado.

Mornstar said:

Ben taleb was the best player on the park today and has one hell of a future ahead of him.

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Hahaha wow! You definitely were not at the game !!!