Rating vs Liverpool

Coyboy · Sep 1, 2014

markdadude said:
Hah, Brad Friedel was excellent in his analysis on MOTD. And informative re. pochetino

What did he say?

Supersi32 · Sep 1, 2014

Bus-Conductor said:
No body's died.

I can just imagine all the blood letting that's going on above. Everyone will be getting 2's, the end will be nearing nigh, Inquests will be going on, spleens will be venting. And I'm equally sure those same spleens last week were probably insisting the revolution had arrived, fully formed, burping and wailing just because we happened to slab a very very shit QPR.

Here's the truth. That performance was not as bad as the score line suggests. Just as last weeks wasn't the miracle that some suggested.

And if Rodgers is claiming that performance was as good as Liverpool's last season he's lying through his teeth, and he knows it. That performance wasn't even as good as the 1-2 defeat he suffered here in his first season.

There were far more positives to take out of this game than West Ham for example. Yes Balotelli missed a great chance early on, and Little Richard scuffed his chance after a jinky run after the game was gone, but after settling down after their first goal it was a very even game, with us edging the ball and making two very good chances that if we'd buried could have made for a very different game.

Our approach play was very decent at times (we made almost twice as many passes Liverpool did) , we moved the ball well at times and created situations that floundered on the rocks of carelessness. We had twice as much ball in their third of the pitch. We also had 60% of the ball and completed 467 passes to their 280. Had 60% of the territory. Lots of approach, but just as we saw with previous regimes, lots of carelessness.

Adebayor had another one of those games where it looks like there is no signals being exchanged between his hard and legs. Eriksen was bitterly disappointing and his inability to impact these big games is a little worrying, Chadli was peripheral and Lamela never quite hit any rhythm. We need all of these guys firing in games like this, none of them really did. And that was the fundamental difference, even though Liverpool weren't at their best, their players were slicker in the moments that mattered. Their attackers were slicker and their defenders were slicker.

At least our midfielders and attacking midfielders aren't invisible or hiding. Even Eriksen and Chadli on a bad day were three times as involved as Lennon is on one of his bad ones.

Liverpool aren't at the embryonic stage we are. They are now into their third season of Rodgers, and their attacking players are a talented bunch who have now been playing together for a while and Balotelli has form in the league. They have also bought some very good defenders (Moreno looks the bollocks to me). Even fucking Lovren looked decent today, unlike his last two run outs against us. But most of all they just look like what they are, a team two years more evolved than we are. They worked much more cohesively off the ball, and were better organised defensively as a group. That is hardly surprising.

I spent all week discussing with @sloth my fear that we would lose this game in midfield. The truth was we lost everywhere but midfield, where Capoue (93/105) and Bentaleb were excellent in possession (not so out of possession but more about that later) with some very silly defending and some very careless play with the ball in the final third.

Despite scoring 4 goals, we failed to capitalise on several situations against a tragic QPR through stupid carelessness with the ball. This is a theme that has been endemic in this team for a long time, it won't be eradicated in a couple of weeks. LIverpool by contrast look much better drilled and the last thing you want is to concede first to this team.

First Bentaleb, then Capoue don't track Henderson's run past them, it was good quick football but we could and should have defended it better, I was even a bit disappointed with Lloris.

The second goal was a pure schoolboy error. I am very impressed with Dier, and believe he will be a very good CB, I would even consider throwing him in ahead of Kaboul right now, but he's 20, and will have plenty of learning to do. Today was a steep part of that curve. It was a terrible time to concede after fighting our way back into that game.

The third was a catastrophe. Townsend's started it by fucking around, Kaboul compounds it by not taking decisive action and coming across.

Liverpool thereafter just sat back and made it very difficult for us the penetrate them, the game petered out with a whimper. But for some really poor individual mistakes, I think it would have been a much closer game and we had enough of it to suggest that.

Individual stuff:

Lloris - A couple of good saves, but I was a little disappointed with the first and third goals.

Dier - Poor game. He's not a RB, and he's only 20 and both showed against a team as strong as Liverpool.

Kaboul - Poor game.

Vertonghen - Didn't really notice him in a good or bad way.

Rose - OK.

Capoue - Let Henderson run past him for the first, but contributed a hell of a lot in terms of his passing, seeing the ball nearly as much as Liverpool's entire 3 man midfield.

Bentaleb - He also lets Henderson run past him for the first but apart from that I though he was our best player in the first half. Played a lovely ball to put Adebayor clean through.He faded second half though.

Lamela - Saw plenty of the ball (38/49), just wasn't happening though. More composure needed at times.

Eriksen - Disappointing game, really didn't influence it enough.

Chadli - Wasted a great chance and din't really produce much quality end product. Most be more careful with the ball.

Adebayor - Very frustrating today. Wasted a great chance, and his general play was clumsy at times. Made poor decisions and was careless.

This is probably the most realistic view of the game I watched too.

fedupyid · Sep 1, 2014

Lamela was fouled every time he touched the ball against Liverpool if the Allen pull was a penalty. Townsend just does not seem to get what he is meant to do and is over concerned about shooting. The defence was a shambles their is no defending their contribution to the match. The central midfielders allowed players to run at them with pace and we were not closing players down quick enough when the opposition had the ball. The passing was not quick and precise enough.

The team gets a 2 because it is a team game and an individuals performance effects the whole team we were bad and Liverpool deserved their victory. We are just scapegoating certain players and individual performances do not matter it is the teams performance that matters

Spurs_Bear · Sep 1, 2014

Supersi32 said:
This is probably the most realistic view of the game I watched too.

I think it errs slightly on the overly positive side of things, the game wasn't as even as that in terms of genuine goal threat. But I'm not shocked by his assertion seeing as had more possession, which is of course the main thing.

Balotelli has his shooting boots on, we're 4-0 down before we've even done our shorts up.

Supersi32 · Sep 1, 2014

Spurs_Bear said:
I think it errs slightly on the overly positive side of things, the game wasn't as even as that in terms of genuine goal threat. But I'm not shocked by his assertion seeing as had more possession, which is of course the main thing.

Balotelli has his shooting boots on, we're 4-0 down before we've even done our shorts up.

Livepool will create chances against every side in the PL, I agree with you that they were more of a goal threat, but I also don`t think we were as bad as some have made out and we were better than we have been against Liverpool recently.

Spurs_Bear · Sep 1, 2014

Supersi32 said:
Livepool will create chances against every side in the PL, I agree with you that they were more of a goal threat, but I also don`t think we were as bad as some have made out and we were better than we have been against Liverpool recently.

I don't think that bit is in doubt, but it's not going against much.

Supersi32 · Sep 1, 2014

Spurs_Bear said:
I don't think that bit is in doubt, but it's not going against much.

Fair point, but its Poch`s 3rd PL game in charge, his influence will take time to devlop onto the pitch but I`m certainly not overly disheartened by yesterday.

mpickard2087 · Sep 1, 2014

fedupyid said:
Lamela was fouled every time he touched the ball against Liverpool if the Allen pull was a penalty.

I keep seeing this said and people complaining, but as I said yesterday in my opinion half of the reason for this is that when he takes someone on he hasn't got the bit of explosiveness, nor strength, to get away from someone and so most of the time he is half looking back over his shoulder to fend someone off or to wait to win a freekick rather than accelerate away into the space. Sometimes he does win the freekick, other times the opposition player will come round the side and muscle him out of it. I think he brings some of the problems on himself, if you cant dribble/take-on successfully, then stop doing it.

double0 · Sep 1, 2014

When you watch the game again with out emotion Tottenham were a match in terms of poccession football but you clearly felt our attacks were not as swift...Liverpool counter punched with much more intent and end product ie shot on/off target also whenever they applied pressure on us our defending just crumbled like a pack of cards.

IMO our central defenders including the great Vertonghen are for to light weight. I hope Fazio really is an improvement and not just another squad number.

Spurs_Bear · Sep 1, 2014

Supersi32 said:
Fair point, but its Poch`s 3rd PL game in charge, his influence will take time to devlop onto the pitch but I`m certainly not overly disheartened by yesterday.

Me neither, I'm exceptionally disappointed though in our performance, having played so well against QPR, yes QPR were gash, but the basics were non existent yesterday from the off, we were just so sloppy and slow in possession. Lost count of the times we brought the ball out from the back and found one of them instead of us. Lloris had a shocker with his distribution but in front of him our team were impersonating dead ants.

I'm hoping we just caught on the hop and we'll see a lot more of the promising stuff we saw against QPR and to a lesser degree Limassol.

worcestersauce · Sep 1, 2014

Seemed pretty clear to me that it was a team supremely confident in its way of playing that it has had two years to perfect and another just starting out on its journey, enough said. ooh except for one question, as defensive midfielder its Capoue's job to help cover the defenders, right?

ebzrascal · Sep 1, 2014

Supersi32 said:
Livepool will create chances against every side in the PL, I agree with you that they were more of a goal threat, but I also don`t think we were as bad as some have made out and we were better than we have been against Liverpool recently.

But that is not good enough most of their players are no better than ours!! we cannot be arrogent and not change our system when we play against the stronger teams and think we can just do our own thing!!

With Mourinho in charge and same players we would not lose that game 3-0... I was disappointed with Pochettino I must say. Liverpool are not a surprise everyone knows how they play we should have done a better job of winning the battle in midfield. Also what happened to the high press????????

ebzrascal · Sep 1, 2014

worcestersauce said:
Seemed pretty clear to me that it was a team supremely confident in its way of playing that it has had two years to perfect and another just starting out on its journey, enough said. oo except for one question, as defensive midfielder its Capoue's job to help cover the defenders, right?

Capoue and Benteleb were out numbered and thats the managers fault he should have seen this... we need a threat with pace up front to pull Henderson and Gerrand deeper to help the defenders... Lamela and Chadli should have been running the flanks to keep the Liverpool LB and RB defending also.. Have to say Adebayor looks knackered doing all that running...

worcestersauce · Sep 1, 2014

ebzrascal said:
Capoue and Benteleb were out numbered and thats the managers fault he should have seen this... we need a threat with pace up front to pull Henderson and Gerrand deeper to help the defenders... Lamela and Chadli should have been running the flanks to keep the Liverpool LB and RB defending also.. Have to say Adebayor looks knackered doing all that running...

Who would that be then?

jonathanhotspur · Sep 1, 2014

Spurs_Bear said:
I think it errs slightly on the overly positive side of things, the game wasn't as even as that in terms of genuine goal threat. But I'm not shocked by his assertion seeing as had more possession, which is of course the main thing.

Balotelli has his shooting boots on, we're 4-0 down before we've even done our shorts up.

Sterile possession doing for BC what nude selfies of Jennifer Lawrence are doing for the rest of us.

Spurs_Bear · Sep 1, 2014

jonathanhotspur said:
Sterile possession doing for BC what nude selfies of Jennifer Lawrence are doing for the rest of us.

I was too slow onto this and now have no idea if I can still see them. I'm having to make do with winning the passing.

Everlasting Seconds · Sep 1, 2014

I was present, I was seated behind the goal, in the middle of South Stand, so take that into account when reading (I might have missed important things on the oposite final 3rd).

Lloris: 5-ish. This is not due to the goals at all. But if we look aside from the goals conceded, he had a poor performance. His distribution was nigh useless, he miss-calculated risk and did not really contribute in organizing the defence.
Dier: 4-ish. He looked to me to have a slight dip in form after being hit by the intensity of the PL, and was found out constantly. From where I sat, the penalty was perhaps harsh, but strictly speaking not a wrong one.
Kaboul: 5-ish. There is a lot of will and good intention in him
Vertonghen: 6-ish. Didn't notice him, yet he was constantly present, if that makes sense.
Rose: 6-ish. Rose was OK.
Capoue: Slgihtly above 6. For me, this was Spurs' best player, and I mean that with all my heart.
Bentaleb: 5. In hindsight, maybe he shouldn't have started.
Lamela, Chadli, Eriksen. They can share one 6 between them.
No, I'm slightly kidding.
Lamela: 6. Before the first goal, I thought Lamela was going to score yesterday. He really looked up for it. Late on, he never really gave up, but never really succeeded either.
Chadli: 5. He should have scored. Simple as that. However, his passing was most of the time quite good.
Eriksen: 5. I think Eriksen is starting his season on the slow side of things, ending in this performance with was slightly passionless.
Adebayor: Oh dearest. Adebayor's game-plan evolves around exploiting errors in the opponents defence. When a defender does not do his job, Ade is there to benefit, all day long. Bless him. When up against a rock solid defence who simply do their job spotless, there is nothing for Adebayor to do. He awaits errors, and yesterday, they just didn't happen.

InOffMeLeftShin · Sep 1, 2014

worcestersauce said:
Seemed pretty clear to me that it was a team supremely confident in its way of playing that it has had two years to perfect and another just starting out on its journey, enough said. ooh except for one question, as defensive midfielder its Capoue's job to help cover the defenders, right?

Is Capoue a true DM though?

Bus-Conductor · Sep 1, 2014

InOffMeLeftShin said:
Is Capoue a true DM though?

Not pure DM like Sandro. If you had to pigeonhole him I'd say he's of the Alonso genre. He'll sit deep, he'll tackle, he'll intercept, he'll - usually - track a man, but he also has a good passing range with both feet and can move forward with the ball. Not as good as primo Alonso obviously but more that type.

InOffMeLeftShin · Sep 1, 2014

Bus-Conductor said:
Not pure DM like Sandro. If you had to pigeonhole him I'd say he's of the Alonso genre. He'll sit deep, he'll tackle, he'll intercept, he'll - usually - track a man, but he also has a good passing range with both feet and can move forward with the ball. Not as good as primo Alonso obviously but more that type.

Not a patch on a prime Alonso and that is no slight on Capoue but Alonso was brilliant at his best. I wouldn't class Capoue as a DM either, he is much more of an all rounder, moves the ball well and does a bit of everything. If people are expecting him to plug every gap and dominate defensively they aren't really being fair to Capoue. I do worry we'll allow too much play in front of our defence this year and teams that can move the ball quickly and play in and out of the zone in front of our defence will expose us. It especially concerns me when we press so much and our full backs push forward. Teams on the counter are going to love that without a player being dedicated to own that area in front of the CB's. Doesn't surprise me we got caught out against quality opposition.

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