THFCSPURS19
The Speaker of the Transfer Rumours Forum
- Jan 6, 2013
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He's not manly enough.
Ratings vs Arsenal
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Bus-Conductor
SC Supporter
- Oct 19, 2004
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Yeah good one, see what you did there MrP. Except it isn't conclusive. Rose isn't on the line or in the line of Welbeck's shot as he takes it.
I'm not looking to hang him out to try, as I said in my OP he was one of our better performers on the day, and this season generally he's doing OK. But I just don't think he made the right decision. I hadn't even thought about it until I was watching them analyse shit on MNF.
iluvsteffenfreund
Well-Known Member
- Nov 5, 2004
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Not strictly true, especially of the manager isn't happy you will be in the next day for sure! The day after the game is usually a warm down session so I think they would of had warm down session Sunday out on the piss Sunday night and day off Monday.
Mr Pink
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- Aug 25, 2010
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I know you're not trying to hang him out to dry. But most people can see what his intention was, an attempt to get back on the line to help cover that side of the goal. Nobody would of anticipated Welbeck doing what he did. Rose made the right move - its only wrong with hindsight because something so unlikely happened.
iluvsteffenfreund
Well-Known Member
- Nov 5, 2004
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If lamela was brave enough and clears the thing none of this happens. He was the source. Clear it ,head it, stick it in the stands just don't spoon it to them on our byline !
Yid
Well Endowed Member
- Jul 5, 2013
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We can speculate about this all day long, and Rose could've had the best intentions at heart when he abandoned his mark (O-C), but the fact remains Poch's system is partly based on positional discipline and on teammates executing the game-plan in sync (be it man-marking or zone).
Rose is not the only one to blame for the goal, but had he maintained his position & stood his ground, O-C would've had little to no scoring chance at all.
Those are just my onions.
It wasn't all pretty (we could've done a little better at the Hemorrhoids - and it could also have been much worse), but at the end of the day I'm sure we can all agree that the ultimate outcome exceeded our expectations.
Bus-Conductor
SC Supporter
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Maybe maybe not, I don't see how it can be the right thing if he can't actually physically block Welbeck's shot. It's just one of two viable options and hindsight doesn't change that. I think it's a mistake but an instinctive one.
Mr Pink
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Ok, lets call it an instinctive mistake - but that's still with hindsight and it all happens so quickly.
Why are you assuming he couldn't of blocked Welbeck's shot? For all we know he miss kicks it...one of those scruffy finishes that often finds the back of the net, and Rose manages to block it.
You have no way of knowing what would of happened if Welbeck had managed to get a shot off.
You see someone teeing up a shot like that, 99 times out of a 100, they'll strike it. He instinctively reacts to try and prevent a likely goal.
I don't blame him whatsoever.
Bus-Conductor
SC Supporter
- Oct 19, 2004
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We can speculate about this all day long, and Rose could've had the best intentions at heart when he abandoned his mark (O-C), but the fact remains Poch's system is partly based on positional discipline and on teammates executing the game-plan in sync (be it man-marking or zone).
Rose is not the only one to blame for the goal, but had he maintained his position & stood his ground, O-C would've had little to no scoring chance at all.
Those are just my onions.
It wasn't all pretty (we could've done a little better at the Hemorrhoids - and it could also have been much worse), but at the end of the day I'm sure we can all agree that the ultimate outcome exceeded our expectations.
Yeah, I'm genuinely not looking to scapegoat Rose, who was one of our better players, under testing circumstances. And it was a split second thing. I just don't really understand the logic, he wasn't in place to block the shot from Welbeck so what was he anticipating ?
Mr Pink
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But how do you know where Welbeck would of ended up placing the shot? I don't understand why you keep saying he wasn't in place to block the shot...
He's attempting to cover the open side of the goal.
Bus-Conductor
SC Supporter
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Because on MNF I froze the frame exactly as Welbeck tries to strike it. Rose is still 3 yards from the goal line. A second before Vertonghen actually points Rose to watch OC as well.
Personally I think it's forgivable but still a mistake.
Mr Pink
SC Supporter
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Yeah I had froze it to, from having sky plussed the game.
Rose is on his way to the line, well in motion, when Welbeck is attempting to strike it. Vertonghen does point before but that's before the chain of events unfold leading Rose to do what he does.
I don't think its even an issue in terms of forgiving. When things happen that quickly, instinctive reactions can pay off or not in this case. The intention was correct so I wouldn't hold it against him in this case.
Anyway, fuck it, we're splitting severe hairs here.
THFCSPURS19
The Speaker of the Transfer Rumours Forum
- Jan 6, 2013
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Has no one analysed the grass yet?
You're fucking disgraceful.
You're fucking disgraceful.
jonathanhotspur
Loose Cannon
- Jun 28, 2009
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I think he's fucking outstanding.Says the most stubborn member on SC ever
Let's face it BC, you think you're some sort of God of tactical knowledge, but you are really not that great...
THFCSPURS19
The Speaker of the Transfer Rumours Forum
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More fool you
Bus-Conductor
SC Supporter
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You keep saying the intention was correct, when it wasn't. It would only have been correct if some circumstances had contrived for a shot to be hit in that corner and him being in place when that happened. Neither of which happened or were very likely.
We are splitting hairs about the goal that cost us 2 points, that according to you our excellent game plan and superior chances had earned.
I hope he learns, because I think his instincts were wrong. And I don't think he's alone either, I think several times this season or defenders, particularly Dier and Kaboul have made some poor instinctive decisions under pressure that have cost us.
L-man
Misplaced pass from Dier
- Dec 31, 2008
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If you watch the Vine you can see that Rose is debating whether to run to the line as soon as the ball is laid back to whoever took the inital shot (Cazorla?) which is completely understandable considering Lloris is at his near post at the time of the shot and Cazorla(?) has time to pick out a shot.
The ball then takes two deflections off Ozil and Kaboul which causes Rose to get back to the line. I think he's right to do this because at that point no one can judge where it's going to end up as, imo, the ball is too awkwardly set up for Welbeck to get much clear contact on it. Even if Welbeck did make some sort of contact with it, I think it could either have gone in off Vertonghen or Welbeck gets some sort of clean contact which sends it on it's way to the far post so Rose has put himself in the best possible position to clear the ball if it somehow gets through. It's just an unfortunate turn of events which leads the ball to fall right at the feet of AOC
The ball then takes two deflections off Ozil and Kaboul which causes Rose to get back to the line. I think he's right to do this because at that point no one can judge where it's going to end up as, imo, the ball is too awkwardly set up for Welbeck to get much clear contact on it. Even if Welbeck did make some sort of contact with it, I think it could either have gone in off Vertonghen or Welbeck gets some sort of clean contact which sends it on it's way to the far post so Rose has put himself in the best possible position to clear the ball if it somehow gets through. It's just an unfortunate turn of events which leads the ball to fall right at the feet of AOC
spurs9
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- Aug 31, 2012
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I don't think you can blame any one player for the goal. There were different things several players could have done differently but ultimately, luck played a major part.
Lamela should have cleared better initially and marked the guy at the edge of the box instead of doubling up on the man with the ball, Kabould should have blocked better, Vert should have tried to block, what he though was going to be, Welbeck's shot with his chest instead of back as he would have had a better chance to block or put off AOC's shot.
I actually think Rose did the right thing, he (as the rest of the world) though Welbeck would connect and he covered the side Lloris left open.
Ironically Welbeck's complete joke of a mishit, is a huge factor, as if he connects, it 's probably going over judging by the height and if it doesn't, it would probably hit Verts or Rose or Lloris could save it. But not only does he miss, he doesn't even touch the ball in the slightest (chances of that happening?) and the ball falls perfectly for AOC, with Verts turning back round, Lloris re-positioning is body after stopping him self mid jump and Rose has gone to the line to make the target smaller for Welbeck.
Lamela should have cleared better initially and marked the guy at the edge of the box instead of doubling up on the man with the ball, Kabould should have blocked better, Vert should have tried to block, what he though was going to be, Welbeck's shot with his chest instead of back as he would have had a better chance to block or put off AOC's shot.
I actually think Rose did the right thing, he (as the rest of the world) though Welbeck would connect and he covered the side Lloris left open.
Ironically Welbeck's complete joke of a mishit, is a huge factor, as if he connects, it 's probably going over judging by the height and if it doesn't, it would probably hit Verts or Rose or Lloris could save it. But not only does he miss, he doesn't even touch the ball in the slightest (chances of that happening?) and the ball falls perfectly for AOC, with Verts turning back round, Lloris re-positioning is body after stopping him self mid jump and Rose has gone to the line to make the target smaller for Welbeck.
spurs9
Well-Known Member
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I disagree with this, look again when Verts turns his back and Welbeck swings for it, hitting it straight or to Lloris's right is almost impossible (probably Verts intention in placing his back in that spot), leaving the side Rose covers the most viable option, though this would take a lot more technique to wrap you foot around to do. I actually think this might be why Welbeck mi-kicks, as I think he is trying to wrap his foot around to get the ball to Lloris's left .
