Ratings vs Chelsea

Bus-Conductor · Dec 5, 2014

Spursidol said:
Unfortunately, if you had read my earlier posts, and virtually every post on SC, someone decided to bet the whole £80m (or is it £100m) we received for Bale on players - all with one common risk. no PL experience. And surely even you will not try to convince Sc that we got good value after the start we have had this season (or the whole of last season) ?

I'm not sure which earlier posts you are talking about, and what they said.

I think some were value some weren't great value. But I think that about many signings we make. Eriksen was great value, so was Chadli and Capoue. Soldado's fee was - according to the owner of this site - vastly over stated by the selling club.

Liverpool went and bought quite a few players with EPL experience, and that worked worse than the start AVB made with the non EPL bunch.

More of an issue for me is when we spend money on ordinary players when we have similar types in our development group.

We still finished 6th, despite this gamble and changing managers. I believe swapping managers twice is more to blame for our start to this season. If we weren't such a bunch of whiners as fans and had accepted a coach who was piling up points at a very reasonable rate - with all these new non EPL players - I think we wouldn't be going through another transitional season now.

Bus-Conductor · Dec 5, 2014

Spursidol said:
I'd prefer to watch a player worth the £25m...or £30m we paid for Lamela ...rather than one requiring extensive coaching.

That's not the question I asked. I didn't ask weather you thought Lamela was over valued, I asked who you'd rather be watching ? The one who has actually produced the most in terms of end product and football or the ones who haven't ?

Spursidol · Dec 5, 2014

Bus-Conductor said:
That's not the question I asked. I didn't ask weather you thought Lamela was over valued, I asked who you'd rather be watching ? The one who has actually produced the most in terms of end product and football or the ones who haven't ?

It absolutely is the question.

Would you rather have a player who can play at a high level in the Pl or a player who is clearly struggling to get it togetyher - yes some glimpses of what a player at a hugh level should be producing, but simply not emough consistent good play at Pl level..

Spursidol · Dec 5, 2014

Bus-Conductor said:
I'm not sure which earlier posts you are talking about, and what they said.

I think some were value some weren't great value. But I think that about many signings we make. Eriksen was great value, so was Chadli and Capoue. Soldado's fee was - according to the owner of this site - vastly over stated by the selling club.

Liverpool went and bought quite a few players with EPL experience, and that worked worse than the start AVB made with the non EPL bunch.

More of an issue for me is when we spend money on ordinary players when we have similar types in our development group.

We still finished 6th, despite this gamble and changing managers. I believe swapping managers twice is more to blame for our start to this season. If we weren't such a bunch of whiners as fans and had accepted a coach who was piling up points at a very reasonable rate - with all these new non EPL players - I think we wouldn't be going through another transitional season now.

So are you saying that the 7 players bought were (in aggregate) a good investment - yes Eriksen was (he had a year left on his contract), Chadli scores goals but maybe overall play not that good. But have Paulhino, Soldado and Lamela really lived up to the £70 odd million invested in them ? (and I'll avoid comments on your favourite Capoue)

Wouldn't we expect more PL goals (not EL goals) from that investment in attacking players ?

If you don't, I'll call the men in white coats !

stevenqoz · Dec 5, 2014

Lloris 6.5
Vlad 6
Fazio 7
Vert 6
Davies 6.5
Mason 6
Bentaleb 7.5
Eriksen 6
Lennon 5.5
Kane 7.5
Lamela 5
Soldado 5
Chadli 5
Paulhino 6
First time I've been on since the game so don't really know what has been said. For my part I thought we generally played quite well. We fell down in two main areas. First we tended to overelaborate with one touch too many around their final third....not enough shots. Second we made a few errors in key places on the field against a very good Chelsea side and were made to pay for it. Pluses included the continued the growing stature of Harry Kane, the experienced beyond his years look of a still less than match fit Bentaleb and Fazio looking like an almost accomplished centre back. Lets move on with a few positives, we don't play Chelsea every week. BC and I were actually suggesting the Mason / Bentaleb link up the other week.......

jezz · Dec 5, 2014

Spursidol said:
It absolutely is the question.

Would you rather have a player who can play at a high level in the Pl or a player who is clearly struggling to get it togetyher - yes some glimpses of what a player at a hugh level should be producing, but simply not emough consistent good play at Pl level..

Adam Lallana who cost the same with proven EPL experience.
Struggling to adapt to a new EPL team.

felmani26 · Dec 5, 2014

Spursidol said:
But I think lamela can take bits of each of them into his game - Lamela can go round outside his man to deliver a cross to vary his game, rather than always doing the 'inverted winger' thing and going into the centre - joining Soldado, Eriksen, Kane, Chadli and Uncle Tom Cobbley in an over congested central area. And that congestion is one reason why he's not scored in PL.

Needs coaching to cure that trait.

I don't think he's a particularly bright footballer and thus, joins the ranks of Lennon and Townsend as wide players who gift possession away so needlessly.

felmani26 · Dec 5, 2014

@Bus-Conductor
If a club offered £15-£20million in January for Lamela would you sell?

HoltbiusMac · Dec 5, 2014

felmani26 said:
I don't think he's a particularly bright footballer and thus, joins the ranks of Lennon and Townsend as wide players who gift possession away so needlessly.

Dumb footballers don't do some of the link play and have the vision for some of the throughballs he's played.
Not saying he's not been wasteful but it's almost as if he's trying to overthink most the time rather than being thick.

jezz · Dec 5, 2014

felmani26 said:
I don't think he's a particularly bright footballer and thus, joins the ranks of Lennon and Townsend as wide players who gift possession away so needlessly.

Ok and no we won't sell.
Some fans have memories of goldfish.
2 of the best players we've seen at our club in recent times have taken time to blossom and show there true worth.
Here we are 14 games in and quite frankly some laughable questions being asked.

SpurSince57 · Dec 5, 2014

Bus-Conductor said:
I think he was absolutely (ex-Roma DOF) Baldini's baby. I know we've been told by Burt that AVB approved him, but I reckon Baldini was the one pushing Lamela, maybe even at his interview with Levy for the job.

More than 'approved'. Burt's actual words are: 'Erik Lamela… was wanted by both Baldini and Villas-Boas.' I really don't see how that can be interpreted any other way. It's actually stronger than, ' Villas-Boas [was] happy with the pursuit of Paulinho, Roberto Soldado and Etienne Capoue'.

felmani26 · Dec 5, 2014

HoltbiusMac said:
Dumb footballers don't do some of the link play and have the vision for some of the throughballs he's played.
Not saying he's not been wasteful but it's almost as if he's trying to overthink most the time rather than being thick.

I will clarify, I think he's a notch above Messrs Lennon and Townsend in the 'footballing brain' stakes but it's not by much.

It's hugely frustrating to see him underhit/overhit passes which are relatively simple in the final third and generally speaking, if question's are being asked of him with a bit of pressure from the opposition then he's pretty much failed at every time of asking.

If it seems like i'm being overly critical of him it's purely because the standards he should aspire to are greater than most.

felmani26 · Dec 5, 2014

jezz said:
Ok and no we won't sell.
Some fans have memories of goldfish.
2 of the best players we've seen at our club in recent times have taken time to blossom and show there true worth.
Here we are 14 games in and quite frankly some laughable questions being asked.

Lamela and indeed, dear ol' Bobby are not above criticism.

alfie103 · Dec 5, 2014

Bus-Conductor said:
Do you regret we signed Bale ?

When bale first started playing, i remember thinking he was very good until he was on the end of a nasty challenge which kept him out for a while.

He had good technique as he came to spurs as something as a free kick specialist and had already played in english football. He was also fairly pacey as well.

Bus-Conductor · Dec 5, 2014

Spursidol said:
It absolutely is the question.

Would you rather have a player who can play at a high level in the Pl or a player who is clearly struggling to get it togetyher - yes some glimpses of what a player at a hugh level should be producing, but simply not emough consistent good play at Pl level..

No, it's absolutely not the question I asked. For a player who's struggling to get it together, in he's still producing more end product than one (Lennon) who's had 9 years (and 300 games) in this league, and another (Townsend) who's spent his life in English football, started his EPL career a year earlier, has had more starts and is a year older.

So, I ask again, who would you prefer, in our team, playing football ?

Time for Heroes · Dec 5, 2014

Bus-Conductor said:
No, it's absolutely not the question I asked. For a player who's struggling to get it together, in he's still producing more end product than one (Lennon) who's had 9 years (and 300 games) in this league, and another (Townsend) who's spent his life in English football, started his EPL career a year earlier, has had more starts and is a year older.

So, I ask again, who would you prefer, in our team, playing football ?

Lennon, every day of the week.

Bus-Conductor · Dec 5, 2014

felmani26 said:
@Bus-Conductor
If a club offered £15-£20million in January for Lamela would you sell?

There's only 2 normal reasons for selling a player. If you are going to make a big profit or if you have an upgrade making the player surplus.

At this moment in time I can't see either of those scenarios materialising. Can you ?

Blake Griffin · Dec 5, 2014

Bus-Conductor said:
We'd be fucked if I thought he wasn't better than those two. You're really riding the buggery out of this one JH.

Bus-Conductor said:
£25m.
Are you telling me you'd rather be watching Lennon or Townsend ?

you seem to be missing the point here. i'm quite sure jh is asking why you're always bringing up lennon and townsend as a comparison to lamela when you constantly slate both. saying lamela is better than two players you think are crap isn't the basis of a strong defence.

p.s. it was £26m if you insist on being pedantic.

Blake Griffin · Dec 5, 2014

SpurSince57 said:
Clearly better than Townsend, unless you're into head-down runs in the general direction of the corner flag and 25-yarders from Didier Zokora's 'Goalscoring My Way'. Lennon I have mixed feelings about: he's had a poor couple of seasons and simply hasn't lived up to his original promise, but still has a good deal to offer as a conventional winger. Lamela is, however, far more gifted technically.

well right now the net result of townsend's shots(which i think he has massively cut down on by the way) and lamela's running into players/dead ends is the same isn't it?

jonathanhotspur · Dec 5, 2014

Bus-Conductor said:
There's only 2 normal reasons for selling a player. If you are going to make a big profit or if you have an upgrade making the player surplus.

At this moment in time I can't see either of those scenarios materialising. Can you ?

Do you think it would be difficult to upgrade on Lamela?

Or do you think he is nailed on to terrorise the PL in the same way that Bale did?

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