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Blake Griffin

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Oct 3, 2011
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Yes because Modric played a more deeper role, and was often referred to as the assist maker. It's where your making those passes from that determines your passing ability imo.

no need to watch them mate, pass completion % tells you all you need to know. the best passer in the league is flamini, i'm sure everyone would agree.
 

scat1620

L'espion mal fait
May 11, 2008
16,285
52,506
(1) Well you tell me what the difference is then, because other than goals (Which is undoubtedly Eriksen's domain), from an attacking pov there is not that much between them. Key passes from Eriksen are 2.2pg and Lamela is 1pg. Given that Eriksen is probably our focal point, thats not great margins. (2) Generally the stats tell me the whole picture, and not the fact that Eriksen is easier on the eye. Both of them can and need to massively improve and overall our creativity is not that great. In all competitions our total assists from our regular creative 3 is poor when relative to teams around us, a grand total of 11, Cesc fabragas has 18 on his own and Tadic and ward-prowse have 13 between them.
My answer to question (1) is neatly summed up by the differences between our views on point (2). Statistics clearly inform your opinion more than they do my own. I'm not anti-statistics in football, but from what you're saying then in that sentence (2) I'd guess I place more reliance on what I see with my eyes than you do through your own eyes. And watching their performances since they both joined (even just this season if you prefer, allowing Lamela the 'clean slate' of ignoring a debut season that never really got started), my eyes tell me that Eriksen is a more clever, more skillful player who keeps our attacking momentum going much more than Lamela does when in possession of the ball. Forget the goals: as I see it Eriksen is just a far better and more naturally gifted footballer. You're of course free to disagree with that, but that's how I see it.
 

Spurs_Bear

Well-Known Member
Jan 7, 2009
17,094
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So you're saying Lamela's movement and vision is better than Soldado's? If so I find that amazing.

I used that as an example to set them apart but in reality neither of them have got much going for them at the minute.

It was the bit about Soldado that made my blood boil, there isn't a player we've had in 20 years that is worth persevering with less than that ****.

The Lamela bit I can take or leave, I'm still massively underwhelmed with him to be honest, the truest thing said about him is what @jezz said in another thread, the fact that he cost what he did shouldn't really come into it as £30m doesn't get you a world class player nowadays. What worries me about Lamela is he doesn't have any 'explosiveness' to beat a player, he's basically a striker, out and out and we're trying to make him this fancy inside forward/AM hybrid and he hasnt got the skill set for it.
 

mrlilywhite

Well-Known Member
Sep 1, 2008
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Problem is you can't take 'assists' as an accurate account of indication, as it's totally dependant on the person on the other end of it. Only way to compare is with 'chances created', that way you will see who is making more/same as previous seasons.

Pass completion is also a load of arse as well, one of the most pointless there is,

Perhaps, but it is by no means coincidence that most assists come from players with technical ability in which to do so. Eriksen has the ability but is not creating no where near enough given his prime positions on the pitch compared to his contemporaries in similar positions in the upper part of the EPL. Granted assists can be circumstantial, but you still, of the majority time have to be in advantageous positions.

Passing % stat is again not really pointless if you understand the context of where the passing is being made. Sure a defender playing short, simple passes will likely have a higher %, but in the upper part of the pitch, passes tend to become more technical and complex, so naturally, even gifted passers of the ball might struggle to have the same % ratio of their defensive team mate. The only way to compare the passing % is to compare with players playing similar passing roles. All 3 of our creative players have similar passing %.
 

SteveH

BSoDL candidate for SW London
Jul 21, 2003
8,642
9,313
tonight Soldado, Townsend and Eric L. would be on the very naughty step and I'd be looking get rid.

Ive had enough of all if and maybe's, they are tripe!
 

tooey

60% banana
Apr 22, 2005
5,228
7,948
deceptively slow...poor decisions when on the ball and something that really bothers me, something that I haven't seen people comment on is his pressing. Whilst he presses at the right times and busts a gut to get to his man, when he gets there he his nowhere near close enough to man or ball to force them into an error.
 

mpickard2087

Patient Zero
Jun 13, 2008
21,886
32,513
It was the bit about Soldado that made my blood boil, there isn't a player we've had in 20 years that is worth persevering with less than that ****.

The Lamela bit I can take or leave, I'm still massively underwhelmed with him to be honest, the truest thing said about him is what @jezz said in another thread, the fact that he cost what he did shouldn't really come into it as £30m doesn't get you a world class player nowadays. What worries me about Lamela is he doesn't have any 'explosiveness' to beat a player, he's basically a striker, out and out and we're trying to make him this fancy inside forward/AM hybrid and he hasnt got the skill set for it.

You stole that wording off me, I'm sure...

Totally agree though, was saying this in Autumn 2013. He's a rubbish dribbler and just needs to stop. Movement isn't bad, and he looks a much better player when he plays give and go's and makes quick interchanges, but running with the ball needed to be knocked on the head about 18 months back.
 

mrlilywhite

Well-Known Member
Sep 1, 2008
3,174
4,992
My answer to question (1) is neatly summed up by the differences between our views on point (2). Statistics clearly inform your opinion more than they do my own. I'm not anti-statistics in football, but from what you're saying then in that sentence (2) I'd guess I place more reliance on what I see with my eyes than you do through your own eyes. And watching their performances since they both joined (even just this season if you prefer, allowing Lamela the 'clean slate' of ignoring a debut season that never really got started), my eyes tell me that Eriksen is a more clever, more skillful player who keeps our attacking momentum going much more than Lamela does when in possession of the ball. Forget the goals: as I see it Eriksen is just a far better and more naturally gifted footballer. You're of course free to disagree with that, but that's how I see it.

I have no doubt that Eriksen is the better footballer, I just don't think that Lamela is that bad either (not making a reference to you btw).
 

mrlilywhite

Well-Known Member
Sep 1, 2008
3,174
4,992
It was the bit about Soldado that made my blood boil, there isn't a player we've had in 20 years that is worth persevering with less than that ****.

The Lamela bit I can take or leave, I'm still massively underwhelmed with him to be honest, the truest thing said about him is what @jezz said in another thread, the fact that he cost what he did shouldn't really come into it as £30m doesn't get you a world class player nowadays. What worries me about Lamela is he doesn't have any 'explosiveness' to beat a player, he's basically a striker, out and out and we're trying to make him this fancy inside forward/AM hybrid and he hasnt got the skill set for it.

And you could be talking about Chadli there too, yet not too many people giving him such a hard time!?
 

Blake Griffin

Well-Known Member
Oct 3, 2011
14,133
38,225
It was the bit about Soldado that made my blood boil, there isn't a player we've had in 20 years that is worth persevering with less than that ****.

The Lamela bit I can take or leave, I'm still massively underwhelmed with him to be honest, the truest thing said about him is what @jezz said in another thread, the fact that he cost what he did shouldn't really come into it as £30m doesn't get you a world class player nowadays. What worries me about Lamela is he doesn't have any 'explosiveness' to beat a player, he's basically a striker, out and out and we're trying to make him this fancy inside forward/AM hybrid and he hasnt got the skill set for it.

this is what i've said as well bear, that if i were in charge and had to try and make lamela work then it would be up top alongside kane, or just off him. not a #10 though, he doesn't think or act quickly enough for that role. he's just so physically underwhelming, he dribbles with little purpose and it's like watching a piece of paper run with the ball, he has no core power and can't sprint. even his dribbling to me doesn't look very smooth, it's like he's dragging the ball along with him. reading that back sounds really bad but it's just what i see, i did like him in pre season playing higher up and although those games were friendlies, the opposition were as good if not better than those he's gotten the majority of his 8 assists and 4 goals against, i think he could be a decent finisher in and around the box but he's just never there.
 

Spurs_Bear

Well-Known Member
Jan 7, 2009
17,094
22,286
And you could be talking about Chadli there too, yet not too many people giving him such a hard time!?

They would be taking a thread called 'Lamela' off topic if they did?

I don't see Chadli dribble into/down as many blind alleys as Lamela, but if I'm honest I'm not Chadli's biggest fan either, what Chadli does is utilise what he has, power and general strength to hold off players, and he gets himself in the box too, I'd like to see Lamela do this too and be there when the crosses come in etc
 

mrlilywhite

Well-Known Member
Sep 1, 2008
3,174
4,992
Oh dear your clutching tonight aren't you

But @jezz point is a valid one. Too many of our players are not performing at the expected level they should be. I could name 2 and at a push 3 that have been performing consistently. Lamlea gets it though because they think you should be getting more than what they are currently getting from him. Granted he is not putting in MOM performances, but bar Kane and Lloris, who is?
 

haydsmith

Well-Known Member
May 11, 2005
306
403
Is there really still a debate on Lamela? After all this time and all these performances ranging from ineffectual to diabolical? The jury is not out, it's back and the verdict is unanimous. I just hope the club know that.
 

jezz

Well-Known Member
Aug 21, 2013
5,650
8,650
Oh dear your clutching tonight aren't you
Nope, you just can't answer.
The post was directed a you.
I Don't knee jerk and post he shouldn't wear the shirt again, remember that?
It was only a game ago, I understand players will have bad games.
You just slate players and vanish.
You know like the last game, ring any bells?
 

Spurs_Bear

Well-Known Member
Jan 7, 2009
17,094
22,286
Perhaps, but it is by no means coincidence that most assists come from players with technical ability in which to do so. Eriksen has the ability but is not creating no where near enough given his prime positions on the pitch compared to his contemporaries in similar positions in the upper part of the EPL. Granted assists can be circumstantial, but you still, of the majority time have to be in advantageous positions.

Passing % stat is again not really pointless if you understand the context of where the passing is being made. Sure a defender playing short, simple passes will likely have a higher %, but in the upper part of the pitch, passes tend to become more technical and complex, so naturally, even gifted passers of the ball might struggle to have the same % ratio of their defensive team mate. The only way to compare the passing % is to compare with players playing similar passing roles. All 3 of our creative players have similar passing %.

It's more to do with how they qualify a 'completed pass' that renders them pretty useless.

Do corners count as an 'attempted pass'...? And free kicks? If they do then whoever is crossing the ball from them is at a disadvantage.

Go back a few years, Tom Huddlestone used to attempt floaty passes to Aaron Lennon down the right wing that the opposition left back would jump to head out of play which meant we gained possession higher up the pitch, his CM partner Wilson Palacios used to smash the ball at his teammates shins from 2 yards away, which would hit them and bounce away to a member of the opposition. Only one of those instances was a positive regarding a 'completed pass'.

I'm over exaggerating the TM/WP example but it still stands, my issue isn't particularly the use of stats, it's just that most of them are a load of nonsense in the first place.
 

iluvsteffenfreund

Well-Known Member
Nov 5, 2004
2,078
2,465
Nope, you just can't answer.
The post was directed a you.
I Don't knee jerk and post he shouldn't wear the shirt again, remember that?
It was only a game ago, I understand players will have bad games.
You just slate players and vanish.
You know like the last game, ring any bells?
He's not good enough face it. He's had over a year now to prove most of us wrong and has failed miserabley. Not cut out for the top league I'm Afraid ship him back to Italy,although speaking to fiorentina fans last night they said they wouldn't touch him with a barge pole. Salah is twice the player lamela is.
 
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