New Stadium Details And Discussions

spursfan77 · Apr 19, 2015

I'd like us to build a stadium that is unique to us. No idea why anyone would be happy otherwise.

Obviously it has to be good and useable. With the whole area undergoing a change it should be feasible if it fits in.

yankspurs · Apr 19, 2015

worcestersauce said:
How on earth do you make a stadium "Spursy"/ How on earth do you make a stadium so Spurs that, with another badge, can't be just any other teams stadium? Do you make it look like a cockeral or something?
I am as optimistic as the next man but I'm not convinced that we'll be needing to increase our capacity much beyond 60,000 I'm afraid.

The stadium will be spursy when spurs step on the pitch and blow the entire season for the first time in it

JimmyG2 · Apr 19, 2015

E

spursfan77 said:
I'd like us to build a stadium that is unique to us. No idea why anyone would be happy otherwise.

Obviously it has to be good and useable. With the whole area undergoing a change it should be feasible if it fits in.

Easy peasy.
Everything blue and white.
No a sniff of red anywhere.
Meeters and greeters, stewards, all staff dressed in cockerel outfits.
Only chicken served at food outlets.
Everyone to receive a blue and white balloon on entry.
Released on first home goal.
More use of cockerel sound effects:
Entry of players, all home goals, free kicks to us, successful tackles, corners
It won't matter what the structure looks like
it'll be a sea of blue and white and cockerels everywhere.

Phischy · Apr 19, 2015

Achap said:
What leads you to the highlighted conclusion, out of interest?

Meeting with Daniel Levy back when we were doing the Stratford thing. I think he's shrewd and I think he is clever, I also think he does what he thinks is right. On the other hand I think he also has his own fortune in mind and 'what is right' might mean balancing what is right for Spurs and what is right for Daniel Levy (and ENIC). I think he achieves his goals by being economical with the truth which manifests itself as being economical with information in general, as his main aim is to minimise any fallout from his decisions, so they are often presented as the only option. He tried to present Stratford as the only viable option to Darren and I when we met and this was while he was still publicly suggesting and trying to make fans believe it was a backup. He manipulated that situation so well that he had some fans believing that Stratford would offer some financial miracle to the club and others believing it wasn't something the club was seriously considering. in the end, as we can see, not only was Stratford not the only option, but building in Tottenham is achievable and financially viable.

For these reasons I simply don't fully trust him. I think he's done more good than any chairman for 3 decades before him, but I also think that when he's gone he won't have left us in a position to move forward, I think he'll have built a club/business which is designed to stand still and be very good at generating a profit whilst it's doing so.

Phischy · Apr 19, 2015

davidmatzdorf said:
I agree with that. @Ionman34 may have something to say about this, but I don't reckon the imposed load of an extra 10k seats and bodies would make much difference to the foundation loading, compared to the dead load of the stadium itself.

My concern about a change in capacity (which I also agree might well be achieved without changing the external dimensions) is that it would require the design team to revisit the transport plan, fire escape issues (perhaps including the size of the plaza), the acoustics report and other issues that were crucial to Haringey granting the original planning consent. That would take time, incur risk and cost money.

There are also many internal-design issues that are knock-on effects of a change in capacity, such as the number of WCs, widths of gangways and vomitoria, size of entertainment and hospitality facilities, number of turnstiles ... pretty much everything.

Basically, I think nearly everyone here is underestimating the sheer amount of stuff that would have to be changed in order to raise the capacity, the time it would take, the delay it would cause and the money it would cost.

What I don't know is whether the club's business plan looks sufficiently better with (say) 61k seats to justify the work, delay, and cost. It is does, then the club might well to go for a redesign.

But in that case, I would have expected that we would have seen it already, not that we would still be speculating after they already have a contractor on board for the structure. I recall what I and others posted a few pages back about the cost of making changes after a contractor has won a contract. It's not a good idea.

its interesting that you disliked my earlier post, because this is pretty much the point I was making, I can't envisage major design or capacity revisions because doing either of those things would require such a large amount of work, changes to so many elements and would mean that we would need to suffer an entirely new planning process.

davidmatzdorf · Apr 19, 2015

worcestersauce said:
I am as optimistic as the next man but I'm not convinced that we'll be needing to increase our capacity much beyond 60,000 I'm afraid.

If there's one reason why we might need >56k in the future, it doesn't have much to do with Spurs. It has to do with the forecast population of London in a few years: 10m.

Unless watching live football, as an institution, declines in a major way, every club in London is going to need more capacity. That could be done by introducing 'safe standing' or by finding ways to squeeze in more seats, but one form of 'future-proofing' or another needs to be incorporated, just to cope with the demographics.

worcestersauce · Apr 19, 2015

davidmatzdorf said:
If there's one reason why we might need >56k in the future, it doesn't have much to do with Spurs. It has to do with the forecast population of London in a few years: 10m.

Unless watching live football, as an institution, declines in a major way, every club in London is going to need more capacity. That could be done by introducing 'safe standing' or by finding ways to squeeze in more seats, but one form of 'future-proofing' or another needs to be incorporated, just to cope with the demographics.

You may be right but I worry that the current forty, fifty and sixty year olds will tail off and the current ten, twenty and thirty year olds won't be regular stadium visiters, I hope you are right though.

Greenspur · Apr 20, 2015

davidmatzdorf said:
If there's one reason why we might need >56k in the future, it doesn't have much to do with Spurs. It has to do with the forecast population of London in a few years: 10m.

Unless watching live football, as an institution, declines in a major way, every club in London is going to need more capacity. That could be done by introducing 'safe standing' or by finding ways to squeeze in more seats, but one form of 'future-proofing' or another needs to be incorporated, just to cope with the demographics.

I expect that this might well be the case. Everything has its boom and decline. I remember snooker in the 70s and 80s being massive. It's nowhere near as big now. I could easily see the 'Sky' money peaking and then diminishing, and people becoming disillusioned with football, and seeking other forms of live entertainment. I am not certain of any of this (obviously) but I get a feeling.

Lilbaz · Apr 20, 2015

Greenspur said:
I expect that this might well be the case. Everything has its boom and decline. I remember snooker in the 70s and 80s being massive. It's nowhere near as big now. I could easily see the 'Sky' money peaking and then diminishing, and people becoming disillusioned with football, and seeking other forms of live entertainment. I am not certain of any of this (obviously) but I get a feeling.

All the more reason to not rely on Tv money.

Hoopspur · Apr 20, 2015

Greenspur said:
I expect that this might well be the case. Everything has its boom and decline. I remember snooker in the 70s and 80s being massive. It's nowhere near as big now. I could easily see the 'Sky' money peaking and then diminishing, and people becoming disillusioned with football, and seeking other forms of live entertainment. I am not certain of any of this (obviously) but I get a feeling.

I think you will be correct if the admission money keeps on escalating in the way it does. The admission is still on an upward trend despite the freeze at Spurs for 2 seasons. I'm not sure the TV audiences will go down though - especially when the broadcasters, league and clubs do find a way to protect their product which they surely ultimately will.

It could well end up in a Sugar predicted type scenario where the fans are charged relatively little to attend but the stadia will be full.

Lighty64 · Apr 20, 2015

just went to view that pic of the stadium design and it's gone. I was going to have a proper look to see if it stated where the away fans will be.

i'm really hoping they are not given the same end as now, as when we have the kop end, I really believe and hope that will be our main stand. i'm kind of hoping they stick the away fans up in a corner like a lot of opponents grounds do now days and perhaps on the west and south stand. only worry would be when playing wet spam would items be hitting supporters below

HotspurSam · Apr 21, 2015

The away fans are to be located in the NE Corner where the police are to be based and are to be directed to travel to/from Northumberland Park Station. This is a Police requirement as part of the Increased capacity to 56K. Their entrance is via a dedicated stairway to the NE corner podium. Was all explained to the Design Statement and Transport Strategy PDFs to the successful planning application. They are to be situated mainly above the access tunnel and the concourse is to be designed to allow for flexible containment/separation depending on competition being played when different percentages of stadium capacity is permitted for the competition eg PL/FA Cup/CL/EL/LgeCup (unless your from N5 and they do as they like).

Lighty64 · Apr 22, 2015

HotspurSam said:
The away fans are to be located in the NE Corner where the police are to be based and are to be directed to travel to/from Northumberland Park Station. This is a Police requirement as part of the Increased capacity to 56K. Their entrance is via a dedicated stairway to the NE corner podium. Was all explained to the Design Statement and Transport Strategy PDFs to the successful planning application. They are to be situated mainly above the access tunnel and the concourse is to be designed to allow for flexible containment/separation depending on competition being played when different percentages of stadium capacity is permitted for the competition eg PL/FA Cup/CL/EL/LgeCup (unless your from N5 and they do as they like).

so in other words if we were just expanding WHL they are to be in the corner that makes all the noise for us at the moment. seems so weird other clubs do not accommodate away fans the same end as there main support is. on this news wished they put the kop in the south stand

HotspurSam · Apr 22, 2015

The Kop is to be in South (Park Lane) end and the away fans at the corner of what is now the Paxton and East stand, directly opposite to where they are now, in relation.

E17yid · Apr 22, 2015

That's a shame, I like being near the away fans when I go to games.

shelfmonkey · Apr 22, 2015

E17yid said:
That's a shame, I like being near the away fans when I go to games.

The away fans being up in the NE corner might liven up the other end of the ground, it's been a looooong time since the Paxton Rd made any noise!!

E17yid · Apr 22, 2015

shelfmonkey said:
The away fans being up in the NE corner might liven up the other end of the ground, it's been a looooong time since the Paxton Rd made any noise!!

I like your optimism. They'll probably just ask them to keep it down.

shelfmonkey · Apr 22, 2015

E17yid said:
I like your optimism. They'll probably just ask them to keep it down.

Crikey!! Someone thinking I'm optimistic!! That's a first!!

acky99 · Apr 22, 2015

HotspurSam said:
The Kop is to be in South (Park Lane) end and the away fans at the corner of what is now the Paxton and East stand, directly opposite to where they are now, in relation.

Looking at all the old pictures of the stadium shows that the Kop will be in the Paxton!

Lilbaz · Apr 22, 2015

acky99 said:
Looking at all the old pictures of the stadium shows that the Kop will be in the Paxton!

How can you possibly tell from the pictures? You have no idea where the artist pictures himself taking it from. (Picture it from the east stand rather than the west).
As far as I'm aware the kop is the park lane.

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