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Spurs U21’s, U18’s and other youth news – 2015/16 Edition

Spursidol

Well-Known Member
Sep 15, 2007
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15,834
i don't understand the double standards fans seem to have;

- youth player wants what he's worth = twat, tosser, fuck off to chelsea

- potential signing wants what he's worth = just fucking pay it levy you cheapskate

for me the two are the same and i don't see any logical reason as to why the two scenarios should provoke polar opposite reactions from the same fans. i think we have to bet on potential and just pay the kid, preventing the nauseating possibility of a genuine spurs academy product leaving the club after 10 years of training to go and become a star for one of our rivals is more than worth what is ultimately loose change to a club of our size. that's one half of the hold up, i imagine the other is seeking assurances that there is a route into the first team for him as long as he continues to knuckle down and develop.

Think the problem with the 'just pay up' approach to the academy kid is that its only ManCity and Chelsea who are currently paying silly money - and the disparity is that some of their stars are on say £30k/£50k a week (as much or more than many of our first team) whereas we are currently paying closer to £5k pw stretching to maybe £10k pw (iie £500,000 pa) for a real star - and our academy wages are pretty much in line with most other academies.

So changing our pay structure to match Chelsea and ManCity is a pretty mega change - and we also can't hope to match ManCity and Chelsea in a 'nuclear' wage race.

Somewhere there is a middle ground, not sure where it is, whereby we might make a top star like Edwards our highest paid academy lad - but we then face the problem of others asking for some sort of 'parity' - whilst probably still being below the wages ManCity/Chelsea pay. And we say that if he stays at Spurs he's more likely to play as neither Chelsea or ManCity have that good a track record ion playing thei youngsters much. So its a straight choice - 'You want more then leave but don't expect to play PL football' or you stay but earn maybe £0.5m - £1m a year (which in any language is good for a 17 year old and over a 2 or 3 year contract builds up a large savings pot, more than many UK people save in their working lifetime) and if you are good enough you may play PL football at Spurs on even bigger salaries.
 

WindyCOYS

Well-Known Member
Feb 24, 2016
479
1,588
Think the problem with the 'just pay up' approach to the academy kid is that its only ManCity and Chelsea who are currently paying silly money - and the disparity is that some of their stars are on say £30k/£50k a week (as much or more than many of our first team) whereas we are currently paying closer to £5k pw stretching to maybe £10k pw (iie £500,000 pa) for a real star - and our academy wages are pretty much in line with most other academies.

So changing our pay structure to match Chelsea and ManCity is a pretty mega change - and we also can't hope to match ManCity and Chelsea in a 'nuclear' wage race.

Somewhere there is a middle ground, not sure where it is, whereby we might make a top star like Edwards our highest paid academy lad - but we then face the problem of others asking for some sort of 'parity' - whilst probably still being below the wages ManCity/Chelsea pay. And we say that if he stays at Spurs he's more likely to play as neither Chelsea or ManCity have that good a track record ion playing thei youngsters much. So its a straight choice - 'You want more then leave but don't expect to play PL football' or you stay but earn maybe £0.5m - £1m a year (which in any language is good for a 17 year old and over a 2 or 3 year contract builds up a large savings pot, more than many UK people save in their working lifetime) and if you are good enough you may play PL football at Spurs on even bigger salaries.

I totally agree with this, and was going to post something similar.

It's such a short-term approach for a young player.. and I know that a career-ending injury could happen at any time, etc, etc, but honestly - by staying at Spurs now for less money, he'll end up making a lot more money in the future IMO.
 

Blake Griffin

Well-Known Member
Oct 3, 2011
14,133
38,225
I totally agree with this, and was going to post something similar.

It's such a short-term approach for a young player.. and I know that a career-ending injury could happen at any time, etc, etc, but honestly - by staying at Spurs now for less money, he'll end up making a lot more money in the future IMO.

i think the mantra - don't hate the player, hate the game - fits well here.

i'd say edwards would be just as if not more likely to see first team action for the likes of liverpool/arsenal in the not too distant future than he would here, all whilst being paid a lot more right off the bat and probably in the future too. the clubs we call our rivals pay a lot more so if we want to keep talent like him then more often than not we'll either have to pay up or watch them leave. i also think spurs fans overplay the we're the best place for youngsters to break through card. it's easier to bring through the likes of bentaleb, mason and kane when you're an upper mid table club with underperforming first teamers than it is for a champions league club aiming to win trophies - which is where we now find ourselves.

i don't know how spurs view edwards with regards to what he can become but if they think he's another harry kane level commodity in the making then you have to play the game and pay what he's potentially worth to the club. letting that kind of asset go to one of your rivals because you view it as being morally wrong to pay them above an arbitrarily decided figure would be a pretty wreckless business decision.
 

eddiebailey

Well-Known Member
Oct 12, 2004
7,452
6,672
I totally agree with this, and was going to post something similar.

It's such a short-term approach for a young player.. and I know that a career-ending injury could happen at any time, etc, etc, but honestly - by staying at Spurs now for less money, he'll end up making a lot more money in the future IMO.

Think it has been club policy (since Harry's time?) to treat low wages as a test of character. Are you in it so you can splash the cash and impress your mates? Or because you want to keep learning and improving?
 

Blake Griffin

Well-Known Member
Oct 3, 2011
14,133
38,225
Think it has been club policy (since Harry's time?) to treat low wages as a test of character. Are you in it so you can splash the cash and impress your mates? Or because you want to keep learning and improving?

how would you feel if edwards left for nothing and went on to become a harry kane level player for another club? would you reevaluate your strategy or would you stick by it and just hope the same doesn't happen again?
 

Hercules

Well-Known Member
Jul 23, 2014
5,694
156,565
how would you feel if edwards left for nothing and went on to become a harry kane level player for another club? would you reevaluate your strategy or would you stick by it and just hope the same doesn't happen again?

I honestly think bring draconian in our policy has to have exceptions. The world is changing, football is changing. Like it or not money is speaking louder than ever. When you have great talents in your ranks and they are mixing with similar, and in many cases lesser talents on more money at other clubs; may I add academy football is my focus, you cannot just say 'we need them to have the right character'.

There are many great talents who have gone out of the game due to serious injuries. If the club believes so munching one of its own they have to evaluate many things. How can you pay for example 30-40k pa, against 80k+ plus pa at other clubs, even if it is the obvious ones we can mention. I am sorry, but for me we should do better than that and find a middle ground somewhere.
 

Blake Griffin

Well-Known Member
Oct 3, 2011
14,133
38,225
commentator in the wales game said the grandson of the slovakia coach is in our academy, not heard him mentioned before so guessing he's very young. pretty random.
 

Saoirse

Well-Known Member
Aug 20, 2013
6,143
15,550
As it turns out, Lesniak's father is also in a director of football type role at a second-division club in Slovakia, and his uncle is Jan Kozak Junior - a son of the Jan Kozac managing Slovakia who was part of a club side there who once famously beat Porto in the Champions League and also played a few times in the Premier League for West Brom a decade or so back. So if Lesniak's career ever comes to a halt over here it sounds like he should at least have the connections to get back into the game over there!
 

Spursidol

Well-Known Member
Sep 15, 2007
12,636
15,834
http://www.premierleague.com/conten...ns/other/2015-16-professional-retain-list.pdf

Not much that we didn't already know from the PL retained list.

Sonupe was the only development squad member released (a surprise to many of us) with a number of others such as Georgious and Voss having their contracts extended.

3 of the former Academy year 2 were released with Loft, McDermott, Muscatt, Owens and Styliandes getting 3rd year Scholarships, the others got pro contracts (or already had been given them).

So we are going to have a very large development group next season (3rd year Academy scholars usually play as part of the development squad.

I can only assume that part of the reasoning will be that in addition to the u18 and u21 league that the addition of the UEFA u19 league and former Johnson's Paint Trophy u23 side (not confirmed as only 16 of the 24 Category 1 Academies will be allowed to participate ), means that we've decided to increase playing staff.

But even with those extra matches (which should be used to develop our better youngsters) I'd assume a lot of youngsters will be loaned out this season.
 

newbie

Well-Known Member
Jul 16, 2004
6,052
6,343
Spoke to Joy Mcenna Saturday he said he was staying (second year) seemed a nice lad there was another spurs lad with him who i didnt recognise.
 

IGSpur

Well-Known Member
Jan 11, 2013
7,939
13,758
http://www.premierleague.com/conten...ns/other/2015-16-professional-retain-list.pdf

Not much that we didn't already know from the PL retained list.

Sonupe was the only development squad member released (a surprise to many of us) with a number of others such as Georgious and Voss having their contracts extended.

3 of the former Academy year 2 were released with Loft, McDermott, Muscatt, Owens and Styliandes getting 3rd year Scholarships, the others got pro contracts (or already had been given them).

So we are going to have a very large development group next season (3rd year Academy scholars usually play as part of the development squad.

I can only assume that part of the reasoning will be that in addition to the u18 and u21 league that the addition of the UEFA u19 league and former Johnson's Paint Trophy u23 side (not confirmed as only 16 of the 24 Category 1 Academies will be allowed to participate ), means that we've decided to increase playing staff.

But even with those extra matches (which should be used to develop our better youngsters) I'd assume a lot of youngsters will be loaned out this season.

I actually asked my mate and he said he was talking with a few of the other coaches, and I don't know if they were speculating or not but he was convinced that the reason we have retained so many was due to so many of our players being at the Euros and so needing a lot of the u21s to step up and cover at preseason...not so sure about that myself as I said just use the 2nd years and he said they're not ready. Don't really rate his football knowledge btw, but he has his info
 

Spursidol

Well-Known Member
Sep 15, 2007
12,636
15,834
I actually asked my mate and he said he was talking with a few of the other coaches, and I don't know if they were speculating or not but he was convinced that the reason we have retained so many was due to so many of our players being at the Euros and so needing a lot of the u21s to step up and cover at preseason...not so sure about that myself as I said just use the 2nd years and he said they're not ready. Don't really rate his football knowledge btw, but he has his info

Anything is possible, but :

First team players not at the Euros :
Vorm, Trippier, Eriksen, Mason, Carroll, Bentaleb, Onomah, Chadli, Clinton - 9 players

To which I would have thought these are the first choice to step up in pre-season :
McGee, Walker-Peters, Carter Vickers, Ball, Ward, Winks , A. Pritchard, Oduwa, Harrison and possibly Ogilvie if he’s back from injury - total 9 or 10 players.

Ok it's a little thin in numbers, but that's 18 or 19 players (providing none are sold), and we may need a few extra bodies (maybe Maghoma, Lesniak and Amos are the next 3 in line), but would we keep all of Voss, Pritchard J, Walkes, Miller, Goddard et al as well to cover pre-season ?
 

Blake Griffin

Well-Known Member
Oct 3, 2011
14,133
38,225
Anything is possible, but :

First team players not at the Euros :
Vorm, Trippier, Eriksen, Mason, Carroll, Bentaleb, Onomah, Chadli, Clinton - 9 players

To which I would have thought these are the first choice to step up in pre-season :
McGee, Walker-Peters, Carter Vickers, Ball, Ward, Winks , A. Pritchard, Oduwa, Harrison and possibly Ogilvie if he’s back from injury - total 9 or 10 players.

Ok it's a little thin in numbers, but that's 18 or 19 players (providing none are sold), and we may need a few extra bodies (maybe Maghoma, Lesniak and Amos are the next 3 in line), but would we keep all of Voss, Pritchard J, Walkes, Miller, Goddard et al as well to cover pre-season ?

onomah and kwp will be at the u19 euros so will miss most of pre season.
 

BC11

Well-Known Member
Jul 2, 2012
100
260
Anything is possible, but :

First team players not at the Euros :
Vorm, Trippier, Eriksen, Mason, Carroll, Bentaleb, Onomah, Chadli, Clinton - 9 players

To which I would have thought these are the first choice to step up in pre-season :
McGee, Walker-Peters, Carter Vickers, Ball, Ward, Winks , A. Pritchard, Oduwa, Harrison and possibly Ogilvie if he’s back from injury - total 9 or 10 players.

Ok it's a little thin in numbers, but that's 18 or 19 players (providing none are sold), and we may need a few extra bodies (maybe Maghoma, Lesniak and Amos are the next 3 in line), but would we keep all of Voss, Pritchard J, Walkes, Miller, Goddard et al as well to cover pre-season ?
Guy I spoke to who should know thought Edwards, Amos, Sterling, Carter-Vickers and Harrison will definitely be involved.
 

IGSpur

Well-Known Member
Jan 11, 2013
7,939
13,758
ok but can you see the likes of Voss and Goddard playing in first team pre-season ?

No but then remember the u21s have games, don't they? So they will need to fill those teams with another 18. Don't get me wrong I would like to have got rid of quite a few too, but just passing on something that, as far as I can tell, was being discussed at the training ground, that is quite plausible and could explain something that seems so confusing? Again in this case I don't know if he was passing on what was known or what coaches(not sure how high up) and others thought

Could some not be sold after preseason still or released just to give them an extended chance while players are away. Or maybe the young players who then feature in preseason could advertise themselves better for loans.
 
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