Day 7: England vs Wales, Ukraine vs Northern Ireland, Germany vs Poland

Phomesy · Jun 16, 2016

DEFchenkOE said:
He's just doing his trademark celebration, he's been injured most the season and hasn't had a chance to do it. I don't really see anything wrong with it, he still celebrated with the rest of the team.

a) I don't like the celebration. It's stupid and annoying. But that's just a personal gripe. He's free to do whatever the fuck he likes as a general "trademark" goal celebration.

More important is:

b) This was no general goal. It was a last minute winner in a major tournament against Home Nation rivals in a tight group. Yet Sturridge's first thought on scoring was to sprint to the nearest camera, shrugging off several team-mates, so he could perform his personal "trademark" celebration unhindered and uninterrupted.

In short he celebrated the exact same way as if he'd just put one past Boaz Myhill in the third round of the league Cup. Because it's all - and only - about him.

Again, contrast this with Vardy who sprinted to the England bench to embrace an equally joyous Harry Kane and share the moment as a team, with teammates. Because it's all - and only - about the team.

There's nothing "wrong" with what Sturridge did. But I sure as hell know who I'd prefer to have my back in the trenches etc etc...

DEFchenkOE said:
Have you seen when Ronaldo scores? Now that's a selfish player only worried about his own celebration and not bothered about the rest of his team at all.

Comparing Sturridge to the most selfish, vain and arrogant footballer the world has ever known hardly does Daniel any favours.

talkshowhost86 · Jun 16, 2016

Gassin's finest said:
Shite?

Sort of.

But technically they were quite good passes. It's just they were pointless.

It's like overhead kicking it back to your own keeper. Technically impressive. But largely pointless.

HildoSpur · Jun 16, 2016

DEFchenkOE said:
How come Wales have their own national anthem but N Ireland use God save the Queen?

Complicated... though I think most supporters would happily change it to a neutral song like Danny boy

werty · Jun 16, 2016

Bright start from Northern Ireland.

HildoSpur · Jun 16, 2016

Already much better than against Poland

BuryMeInEngland · Jun 16, 2016

Phomesy said:
a) I don't like the celebration. It's stupid and annoying. But that's just a personal gripe. He's free to do whatever the fuck he likes as a general "trademark" goal celebration.

I believe it's down to the "NFL syndrome". English players watch the overpaid 'athletes' of the NFL doing their well-rehearsed and choreographed dance celebrations in the end-zone. Each player (or group of players) trying to outdo the other.

It's just a by-product of their oversized egos.

BTW, I hate NFL football and don't watch it because it has ceased to be a sport and is now just a TV spectacle.

Phomesy · Jun 16, 2016

talkshowhost86 said:
Rooney in midfield reminds me of when Spurs used to play Huddlestone.

The fans would go oooh and aaah at his 'raking passes' but they were so un-incisive (what's the opposite of incisive) that they very very rarely actually led to us getting a shooting opportunity.

I dislike him, but Wilshere needs to be in the midfield to actually pass the ball forwards.

Think that's a bit unfair. Rooney's passing is one of the reasons Walker's been so involved and effective. Much harder for him to set Kane away as the formation effectively has Kane 3 Vs 1.

Also, Rooney's there because the team needs experience. Roy's done well to find a position that isn't detriment to the team and Rooney's done well to make the position his own. He and Wilshere are fighting for that spot. Which is right and good imo.

Sandros Shiny Head · Jun 16, 2016

talkshowhost86 said:
Hodgson simply doesn't have a clue what system to play, and it shows in that two players who have been excellent all season (Alli and Kane) looked out of sorts today.

Having said that, whilst Alli was genuinely a bit crap for the whole game, Kane simply didn't get the ball. We're using him as a target man which is not how he plays for Spurs, and as others have said if you play Vardy in that role we'll have the same problem.

For me the issue all stems from having Rooney in midfield. He plays these quarterback passes and the crowd and commentators coo and say 'wow' but they actually don't help at all. We need a midfielder who can get it into a striker's feet rather than simply at chest or head height.

For the next game I'd drop Alli for Wilshere or Henderson, push Rooney forwards and then drop Sterling for Vardy or Sturridge.

Lallana did okay in the first half, and I'm not sure if it would work playing Kane, Vardy and Sturridge, so I'd go:

Hart

Walker Cahill Smalling Rose

Dier Wilshere

Lallana Rooney Sturridge

Kane

We won't do that though. Roy will pander to the papers, drop Kane, and we'll watch either Vardy or Sturridge trying to play upfront on their own to little effect.

The problem when Rooney plays further forward is that he then puts the blinkers on and thinks either he scores the goals or noboy does. Just like when he stunk the place up against Portugal trying to take over the show.

Phomesy · Jun 16, 2016

DEFchenkOE said:
How come Wales have their own national anthem but N Ireland use God save the Queen?

Because Northern Ireland are loyal, trustworthy patriots unlike the heathen Celt scum?

*am Australian so no dog in this fight. Just japing!

talkshowhost86 · Jun 16, 2016

Phomesy said:
Think that's a bit unfair. Rooney's passing is one of the reasons Walker's been so involved and effective. Much harder for him to set Kane away as the formation effectively has Kane 3 Vs 1.

Also, Rooney's there because the team needs experience. Roy's done well to find a position that isn't detriment to the team and Rooney's done well to make the position his own. He and Wilshere are fighting for that spot. Which is right and good imo.

He's not setting Walker free down the right though. Walker is doing most of it on his own, and I don't think it takes a world beater to make those passes. Plus if all we are doing is passing it down the right, that's no use to anyone.

And as for him not being a detriment to the team...who gave away the free-kick for the goal? And we haven't played anyone good yet. Against an actual midfield he'll get swamped immediately.

Sandros Shiny Head said:
The problem when Rooney plays further forward is that he then puts the blinkers on and thinks either he scores the goals or noboy does. Just like when he stunk the place up against Portugal trying to take over the show.

I agree, and it would take some actual coaching from Hodgson to tell him to actually play off Kane rather than alongside him, but I don't know how likely that is.

As I said I'd rather drop Rooney altogether and play Wilshere and Alli, but Rooney is in the team whether we like it or not.

kr1978 · Jun 16, 2016

yankspurs said:
Uhh, Dier's winner over Germany? I even celebrated that like a mad man and Im not even English.

Nah-liked the Spurs and German side of it but ultimately it was still only a friendly

worcestersauce · Jun 16, 2016

Don't people realise that Roy took Harry off to save him for the final stages of the tournament.

Shadydan · Jun 16, 2016

Having a go at a player over the way they celebrated...Fucking hell

I know we're in a hipster era where everyone shows faux outrage but seriously lol

talkshowhost86 · Jun 16, 2016

Shadydan said:
Having a go at a player over the way they celebrated...Fucking hell

I know we're in a hipster era where everyone shows faux outrage but seriously lol

Boooooo to your opinion.

easley91 · Jun 16, 2016

He can celebrate how he likes he scored the last minute sodding winner! Couldn't care less who scored or how it went in, all that matters is that it did and we won and now top the group. I would've celebrated the same had it been a Davies own goal.

Just enjoy the fucking moment, seriously.

werty · Jun 16, 2016

A bit more belief in themselves and Northern Ireland will win this.

werty · Jun 16, 2016

They like that free-kick down the side.

diamondlight · Jun 16, 2016

NEVILLEB said:
Alli and Kane both look tired.

The club have put Kane's long term future in doubt by putting far too much work on his shoulders last season.

One of the reason are strikers are burned out by their late twenties are the demands of premier league football and on top of that Kane has played lone striker with no back up.

This was always going to happen.

A bit overboard. He's battled well as a lone striker against two defences determined to sit deep and flood the box with defenders. And alongside him he's had appalling - pretty much non-existent - support from Sterling.

Subs are there to mix things up and inject some energy - and the team benefitted from that. Just because Sturridge and Vardy won us the game doesn't mean Kane is burning out.

tiger666 · Jun 16, 2016

diamondlight said:
A bit overboard. He's battled well as a lone striker against two defences determined to sit deep and flood the box with defenders. And alongside him he's had appalling - pretty much non-existent - support from Sterling.

Subs are there to mix things up and inject some energy - and the team benefitted from that. Just because Sturridge and Vardy won us the game doesn't mean Kane is burned out.

That doesn't fit Neville's agenda.

HildoSpur · Jun 16, 2016

Great first half from NI let's hope we can get a goal

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