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Ratings vs Chelsea

MOTM

  • Lloris

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Walker

    Votes: 1 0.2%
  • Toby

    Votes: 5 1.0%
  • Verts

    Votes: 7 1.5%
  • Dier

    Votes: 1 0.2%
  • Rose

    Votes: 8 1.7%
  • Wanyama

    Votes: 240 50.2%
  • Dembele

    Votes: 2 0.4%
  • Eriksen

    Votes: 70 14.6%
  • Dele

    Votes: 98 20.5%
  • Kane

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Winks

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Sissoko

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Son

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • All Deserved

    Votes: 46 9.6%
  • None Deserved

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Undecided

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    478

Archibald&Crooks

Aegina Expat
Admin
Feb 1, 2005
55,533
204,721
At some point the penny will drop for the pundits that it isn't coincidence that every team we play is deemed to play badly. We aren't just having a great run of luck where teams play badly against us in the midst of playing well. We are making teams look bad. Annoys the hell out of me that supposed experts can't see this.
After the game Cahill gave an interview where he said chelsea weren't quite at it or something after which Souness responded along the lines of that it was because we didn't allow them to be.

Put your annoyance away :p
 

Bus-Conductor

SC Supporter
Oct 19, 2004
39,837
50,713
Lovely stuff this week BC.

As others have said, I'd have been kinder to Dembele and Kane. @THFCSPURS19 has nailed it in regards to Dembele and how he impacted upon Kante's performance.

As far as Kane goes I'd argue that he worked his ass off and whilst I agree that his touch wasn't really there tonight, he still had some nice hold up play and made sure he occupied Cahill and Luiz a great deal which one could argue helped to free Alli to ghost into the box to get his two goals with only Moses & Azpilicueta for company.

All in all though your review is bang on and exactly how I saw the game so there's no need for me to chip in any more than the above.

Wanyama MOTM for me, one of the absolute best, most dominant performances I've ever seen from a Spurs CM.

EDIT: re. Dembele, just saw this in the F365 article - "From there, Dembele would dominate the midfield. He made three tackles, misplaced just one of his 33 passes, and won all but two of his duels. It was a wonderful performance."

And @THFCSPURS19

I think there's a tendency after a game like this to want to see positives everywhere, but if you want to know why Kanté had a poor game you should be watching Wanyama not Dembele. Dembele did not dominate that midfield, Wanyama and Eriksen did. If you're going to chuck numbers at me, then Wanyama made 9 ball recoveries to Dembele's 5, 5 tackles to Dembele's 3, 2 interceptions to Dembele's 0 and received the ball 36 times and passed it 44 to Dembele's 30 and 31. And Dembele noticeably faded and was labouring second half (12 passes and 0 tackles). Wanyama was relentless and when Chelsea did have more of the ball second half he didn't fade.

Wanyama gave Dembele the platform to actually do more than he did, but Dembele didn't grasp the nettle, instead played largely safe and within himself. Not terrible but not wonderful and certainly not dominant and not influential with the ball either.
 

Bus-Conductor

SC Supporter
Oct 19, 2004
39,837
50,713
After the game Cahill gave an interview where he said chelsea weren't quite at it or something after which Souness responded along the lines of that it was because we didn't allow them to be.

Put your annoyance away :p

Post match interviewers are so insipid though, It was begging for the guy holding the mic under Cahill's nose to say "was that because Spurs didn't let you be at your best" and asked him why. It would have made for better TV and would have been the truth. Instead they constantly let them off the hook and go for the cliched platitudes. Post match interviews are virtually pointless unless it's Klopp or Guardiola.

We learn nothing, get no insight because of the incompetence of the interviewers.
 

Gilzeanking

Well-Known Member
May 7, 2005
6,093
5,019
After the game Cahill gave an interview where he said chelsea weren't quite at it or something after which Souness responded along the lines of that it was because we didn't allow them to be.

Put your annoyance away :p

Not a fan of Souness generally , but I thought he made a couple of good points . This was a very evenly balanced match in which the margins were tiny as he said . We should also remember that we had no other attempts on target other than Dele's two headers.

Fuckin' superb we stopped their run n'all ,but its important not to get carried away like mebbe we did after the City game .
 

theShiznit

Well-Known Member
Jul 26, 2004
17,800
23,813
Not a fan of Souness generally , but I thought he made a couple of good points . This was a very evenly balanced match in which the margins were tiny as he said . We should also remember that we had no other attempts on target other than Dele's two headers.

Fuckin' superb we stopped their run n'all ,but its important not to get carried away like mebbe we did after the City game .
We did what we had to do to win, it was by no means a top attacking display, but was an effective team effort, against the runaway leaders going for a record (and with a day extra rest over a busy period) Must've been one of Lloris' quietest games.
We didn't have the verve of the City game but that was a totally different match for many reasons.
 

hughy

I'm SUPER cereal.
Nov 18, 2007
31,842
56,935
Not a fan of Souness generally , but I thought he made a couple of good points . This was a very evenly balanced match in which the margins were tiny as he said . We should also remember that we had no other attempts on target other than Dele's two headers.

Fuckin' superb we stopped their run n'all ,but its important not to get carried away like mebbe we did after the City game .

We didn't need to. As far as we were concerned, at 2-0 up in the 54th minute that's our attacking work done. The fact that they were chasing the game for 45 minutes and also only had 2 shots on target shows just how good we were. Not even allowing the best team in the league a sniff of a chance to get back in to the game.

In my opinion, that's where the margins weren't that "fine". We took our chances and defended superbly. They didn't.
 

phil

Well-Known Member
Oct 25, 2004
2,038
1,239
Still buzzing after last night. Even approaching my 70th birthday, I can still get excited by performances like that. The atmosphere in the ground was tremendous - the crowd were really up for it. Nights like that justify the cost of the season ticket.

Lloris 7 - Very quiet game

Dier 8 - Solid

Alderweireld 8.5 - Best CB in the Premiership

Vertonghen 8.5 - Excellent

Walker 7.5 - Didn't offer a lot going forward but was involved in both goals.

Dembele 8 - Great first half but tired badly

Wanyama 9 - Dominated midfield. His best performance in a Spurs shirt.

Rose 8.5 - Typical aggressive performance. Best LB in the Premiership since Ashley Cole.

Eriksen 8.5 - Clearly didn't relish the physical battle last night but he is the heart-beat of the side. Goals win matches and his two assists were surblime.

Dele 9 (MoM) - Yes he had a quieter game than Wanyama but the quality of his goals sways it for me. He is a very intelligent player who is always making runs into space. Most of the time this goes unnoticed (both by his colleagues and the crowd). Last night was a very mature performance from him.

Kane 7 - Very well policed.

Winks 6 - Anonymous

Sissoko - NET

Son - NET

Crowd 9.5
 

am_yisrael_chai

Well-Known Member
Feb 18, 2006
6,409
10,931
After the game Cahill gave an interview where he said chelsea weren't quite at it or something after which Souness responded along the lines of that it was because we didn't allow them to be.

Put your annoyance away :p
I'm sorry but I can't, it was then topped off by finishing the programme by showing a full run of Chelski's 13 game run. Who gives a monkeys after they've been beaten ?

Sky are better than BT but seriously how does Alan Smith get a job anywhere in the media ?
 

danielneeds

Kick-Ass
May 5, 2004
24,179
48,764
I'm sorry but I can't, it was then topped off by finishing the programme by showing a full run of Chelski's 13 game run. Who gives a monkeys after they've been beaten ?

Sky are better than BT but seriously how does Alan Smith get a job anywhere in the media ?
I think it's harsh to criticise them for going with that 13 game run. Obviously they had to prepare the VT in case they won, it would be a momentous moment in English football.

The unbeaten run was the narrative from a journalistic point of view. And putting aside my loathing of Chelsea it deserved recognition too.
 

dudu

Well-Known Member
Jan 28, 2011
5,314
11,048
And @THFCSPURS19

I think there's a tendency after a game like this to want to see positives everywhere, but if you want to know why Kanté had a poor game you should be watching Wanyama not Dembele. Dembele did not dominate that midfield, Wanyama and Eriksen did. If you're going to chuck numbers at me, then Wanyama made 9 ball recoveries to Dembele's 5, 5 tackles to Dembele's 3, 2 interceptions to Dembele's 0 and received the ball 36 times and passed it 44 to Dembele's 30 and 31. And Dembele noticeably faded and was labouring second half (12 passes and 0 tackles). Wanyama was relentless and when Chelsea did have more of the ball second half he didn't fade.

Wanyama gave Dembele the platform to actually do more than he did, but Dembele didn't grasp the nettle, instead played largely safe and within himself. Not terrible but not wonderful and certainly not dominant and not influential with the ball either.
Except when he beat 4 men and nearly assisted kane with a little dink.

Very within himself..... Apart from when he wasn't
 

JonnySpurs

SC Veteran
Jun 4, 2004
5,345
12,398
And @THFCSPURS19

I think there's a tendency after a game like this to want to see positives everywhere, but if you want to know why Kanté had a poor game you should be watching Wanyama not Dembele. Dembele did not dominate that midfield, Wanyama and Eriksen did. If you're going to chuck numbers at me, then Wanyama made 9 ball recoveries to Dembele's 5, 5 tackles to Dembele's 3, 2 interceptions to Dembele's 0 and received the ball 36 times and passed it 44 to Dembele's 30 and 31. And Dembele noticeably faded and was labouring second half (12 passes and 0 tackles). Wanyama was relentless and when Chelsea did have more of the ball second half he didn't fade.

Wanyama gave Dembele the platform to actually do more than he did, but Dembele didn't grasp the nettle, instead played largely safe and within himself. Not terrible but not wonderful and certainly not dominant and not influential with the ball either.

Easy there BC, I'm not "chucking numbers at you" and I wouldn't have gone as far as to say that Dembele dominated the midfield, that was the F365 article and I thought it was worth mentioning his stats. I would also certainly agree that Wanyama was the main driving force in our midfield. I merely said that I'd have been kinder to Dembele than you were and I feel that his efficient passing, ball recovery and usual masterful dribbling ability all contributed to the victory. I'm not really interested in how many interceptions he had, that's not really his role.

Don't get me wrong, I agree that he could have done more but maybe his fitness is still an issue. I just feel that he deserves some credit for what he did well as part of an overall brilliant team performance, as does Kane.
 

JonnySpurs

SC Veteran
Jun 4, 2004
5,345
12,398
Except when he beat 4 men and nearly assisted kane with a little dink.

Very within himself..... Apart from when he wasn't

Indeed, that started with a stiff arm to Kante's chest as well if I recall. Not many have been able to do that to him this season.

Clearly Dembele wasn't the key man but he still played an important role IMO.
 

Phomesy

Well-Known Member
Aug 20, 2013
9,188
14,102
Wanyama - 9.5 - He was everywhere fantastic performance, would've given a 10 if he wasn't booked

Harsh imo. He had to take that card for the team otherwise Hazard was away. Good play I thought.
 

Bus-Conductor

SC Supporter
Oct 19, 2004
39,837
50,713
Except when he beat 4 men and nearly assisted kane with a little dink.

Very within himself..... Apart from when he wasn't

Yeah, nearly....Which I alluded to in my original post, a couple of good moments...
 

JimmyG2

SC Supporter
Dec 7, 2006
15,014
20,779
O Happy Day.
Their parade was an absolute washout.
Mrs JimmyG2 often asks what I see in football
and occasionally after certain matches
I am stumped for an answer.
Not today though.
Controlled performance especially of our own selves.
Should have been the same score last season but..
we seemed to have learned our lesson.well
Wanyama .....Beastly. Getting to quite like him, a lot
Eriksen..........Saintly. What have I been telling you.
Dele...............Heavenly. Not so much as a glimpse of a nutmeg
Or a hint of petulance from my MOM. But that's because goals win games
and the boy is red hot at the moment.
All 9's
Others played their parts well. All 8's
Enjoy it while you can boys
I'm not usually as generous

Loved the way Mauricio put another 20 yr.old on
just to rub it in their faces.
 

Mr Pink

SC Supporter
Aug 25, 2010
54,776
99,338
Maturing Nicely

I said at half time that was a really good half of football. Two well balanced teams, tactically proficient and well set up, making for a really tight tussle, no quarter given, but not in a reckless hell for leather way, more like watching speed chess, or an Italian league game from about 25 years ago. We were the team taking the initiative, moving the ball better, constantly probing but Chelsea were that well drilled machine who always carried menace, not allowing us to get carried away, and to our credit we never did, it was tactically a superb and mature performance. And that's the most pleasing aspect, as it was immaturity and naivety that saw us come unstuck the last two times we played them, at heavy cost.

I guess this would be called a 3421 in the playbook, but watching it and looking at the position matrix, I'd call it more a 313111 that played out more like this:

Dier-------TA--------JV
Wanyama-----
Walker-------Dembele-----Rose
Eriksen---------------
----------------Alli
Kane
And it was tactically superb, Chelsea never got to grips with it. Our young coach went toe to toe with one of the best coaches in Europe, and came out on top.

Considering who we were playing, how strong they are tactically and what was at stake, the tensions this fixture carried, that first 45 minutes has to rank very, very highly in the Pochettino Oeuvre. This isn't a side that allows you to tear them apart, to try and do so would have been folly, they are designed for anything but that to happen, but what we did do in that first half was suffocate, play and probe, we showed patience; it was a grown up performance that despite not having much goal mouth action was hugely impressive and was thoroughly gripping throughout.

Also impressive was the phase after we scored our second goal, where instead of thinking "oh fuck we're two up, lets shell" Wanyama and Eriksen just kept us playing football and we just smothered any come back momentum at the embryonic stage.

I have to doff my cap to Poch, for much of last and the start of this season I was saying that he has to be more flexible tactically. After a couple of games of watching Wanyama, I said he was a player who could facilitate this, and tonight was the best evidence of that against the best possible test. He was fucking outstanding tonight, he was a voracious animal, hunting, gathering with a dynamism that none of our other CM's can match. The first half his tenacity was always initiating offensive actions, the second half it was breaking up Chelsea's momentum, unflustered, he also footballed his (and our) way cooly out of trouble at times with a panache under pressure that was a joy to watch.

Eriksen is so under rated, not just by some spurs fans, but by football's fanfare machine too. This guy is only bettered creatively over the last couple of years by players like Hazard and Ozil (and Payet last year), but none of those come anywhere close to having the metronomic influence that he has on team performances. None of the other players of his ilk in this league get through so much of the ball, work all over the pitch, like a CM/AM hybrid. This was another masterclass from Eriksen, and he's not a flat track bully either, he does it in the big games too, none bigger than tonight, and he delivered, the industry, conducting play then providing the two moments of precision that put the opposition to the sword.

I thought Vertonghen was also superb tonight, and is having a really good season, probably his best (he's always been a bit under rated too IMO) in his Spurs career. He set the tempo early on with a steaming interception and then carrying the ball forward and was authoritative throughout. He's been our best CB all season, even when TA has been playing.

Pochettino deserves the biggest credit though. This was yet another feather in his managerial cap. Few coaches manage to combine being good coaches and tactically proficient. We've seen the evidence of Poch's coaching ability. I've been watching Spurs for nearly 50 years and he's the first coach we've had (maybe bar Pleaty for a year) who has this team consistently and habitually doing the ugly stuff, and doing it cohesively, playing like a team without the ball as well as with it. But this season he's adding tactical variety to that coached ethos and has now added the scalp of Conte to Guardiola's. This is my favourite Spurs side of any I've watched, and we are what we are entirely because of him. And despite calling the flaws and errors (as I see them) let me make this clear, he is the best coach I've seen at this club.

Individual

Lloris - Not loads to do. Still wish he wouldn't scare us every game with at least one or two dodgy kick outs.

Walker - Not so great first half, coughed up the ball a couple of times sloppily, but got better and had a decent game defensively.

Dier - Good game.

TA - Good game.

Vertonghen - Excellent game, best CB on the pitch tonight.

Rose - He didn't deliver much in terms of actual attacking quality or product but nights like tonight you just love his feistyness and dynamism, it sets a tempo, adds a delicious friction that unsettles the opposition, gets the crowd going, and you know he's fucking up for it and it makes the night crackle. Good game.

Wanyama - Fucking marvellous. 90 minutes of cool headed rapacity. MOTM 1

Dembele - He had a couple of moments but was a little bit disappointing. This was a tough game to come back to, and I think he just always seemed a little bit off the pace, still did a couple of decent things and was generally robust defensively but second half seemed to be reduced to a slow amble in deeper areas.

Eriksen - He did bottle a challenge early on, but after that was outstanding, like a little maestro, popping up wherever a pocket of oxygen appeared, always available, deep areas, middle of the pitch and forward areas. Two delicious balls for the goals. MOTM 2

Alli - I thought this was his best game of the season. Not because he contributed loads and loads all over the pitch, he didn't, and he's not going to, but he was efficient tonight, much less of the silly bollocks and more concentration on doing what he's best at, which is keeping it simple and ghosting into the box from hard to pick up positions, and he finished his chances with aplomb. That first goal was real class, harder than whacking a volley from 20 yards. He also worked better without the ball tonight as well. Good game.

Kane - Got to be honest, he wasn't wanting for effort but, footballing wise, he was really poor tonight. Like he was playing in flippers.

Enjoyed reading every bit of that, largely though because I agree wholeheartedly with all of it, but also enjoy your ability to describe things so succinctly at times.

On the moment Eriksen bottled that challenge, was that right on the edge of their box?

Also, did you not think Moses got away with multiple booking offences?
 

Shea

Well-Known Member
Apr 5, 2013
7,711
10,930
Lloris 7 - Very little to do but didn't put a foot wrong whenever called upon

Dier 8 - Played very well, looked solid as well as comfortable on the ball and shouting to orgainse team mates

Alderweireld 9 - Outstanding, rock, never looked like letting anything pass by him

Vertonghen 9 - Excellent, solid like Dier and Toby and went on a great run forward or two

Walker 7 - Seemed less of an attacking force today yet still managed to provide the ball to the man making the assists twice

Dembele 7 - A couple of excellent eye catching runs and plays but I actually felt he slowed our attacks down

Wanyama 9 - Could easily be the MOTM imo, bossed the midfield and Chelsea couldn't deal with him. Even used the ball well

Rose 8 - Played well as always in both attack and defense

Eriksen 9 - I watched the game with my dad who kept complaining how weak and what a pussy he was and was calling for him to be taken off before half time. For me though he ran the show and was pretty much behind or at least involved in everything we did as an attacking force. 2 top quality assists which won us the game, say no more

Dele 9 - There was little to no space for him in the areas of the pitch he likes to do his thing, Chelsea had those zones on lock down for much of the match and he struggled to really get involved as a result. Big time players do big time things though, the boy showed great movement to get in to space in the box and meet the deliveries twice and his headers were both superb, The match winner, the MOTM

Kane 7 - Worked hard, had very little to work with, was a little sloppy with some of his passes but make no mistake he put in a valuable shift for the team and deserves credit for the work he produced

Winks, Sissoko and Son all came on and did what they needed to do without having time or opportunties to be that relevant in the over all picture of the match. They helped rest and rotate and they all showed they can be counted on
 

dudu

Well-Known Member
Jan 28, 2011
5,314
11,048
Yeah, nearly....Which I alluded to in my original post, a couple of good moments...

Yeah, i saw. It was a great write up mate!!

Just think that Dembele contributed well to the overall performance by not giving the ball away - be it him being safe or playing within himself...whatever you want to call it - in the first half we gave the ball away a lot - more so in the second half. I know this game wasn't about possession and im not taking anything away for our performance but we gave the ball away a lot..... sometimes in dangerous areas. Both he and Wanyama deserve credit for retaining possession when other weren't so much and being there to get possession back at important times. Also only one DM can tackle a player at a time at - neither failed an attempted one which is the stat that counts for me last night.

Wanyama was the more dynamic and more involved but I think Dembele's performance was worthy of applause.
 

southlondonyiddo

My eyes have seen some of the glory..
Nov 8, 2004
12,599
15,012
Enjoyed reading every bit of that, largely though because I agree wholeheartedly with all of it, but also enjoy your ability to describe things so succinctly at times.

On the moment Eriksen bottled that challenge, was that right on the edge of their box?

Also, did you not think Moses got away with multiple booking offences?


Moses should have been sent off. Fouled Kane from behind but the ref bottled it and played the advantage. His 5th foul at least and in these crazy modern times of a non contact sport he should have gone

They took him off less than 5mins later but due to the refs incompetence he should already have been having an early bath
 
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