Ex-Player Watch Player Watch: Kyle Walker

Disconosebleed · Jun 17, 2017

Bus-Conductor said:
I'm not dismissing it, I'm weighing it up and saying I don't think overall, when the strengths and weaknesses of both players are assessed that we are worse off with Trippier most days.

I think it's easier to train a clever player to compensate for physical deficiencies that it is to train a stupid one to compensate for mental deficiencies.

Lahm isn't as quick or strong as Walker, I know who I'd rather have.

Yes, but Lahm is a much better footballer than Trippier, so that isn't really relevant.

FWIW I don't disagree with you totally, I just think dismissing Walker's qualities because they are physical is silly, pace and strength are just as legitimate qualities in a defender as any other.

Your point above about training players to cover their weaknesses is fair, but ignores the fact that in this respect Walker has come on an astonishing rate in the past few years, for a long time he was nothing but pace and power, but has improved so much that we're now worried about losing him to an elite club for crazy money rather than wondering if we should fuck him off to a lower-level side.

What it comes down to IMO is this. We have three right backs at the moment: Walker, Trippier and KWP. One is a top class PL player, one is a good PL player who could reach that level if given the chance, and one is a talented youngster who could reach that level if given the chance. My issue isn't with KWP coming through - I agree with you that he's one of the most talented players I've seen at youth level, and I have higher hopes than any of the other kids in our setup - but getting rid of Walker to accommodate him is a huge issue, because then you're stuck with two maybes in that position, both of whom could match/better Walker but neither of whom are currently as good, or guaranteed to be as good. Getting rid of Trippier would be a more understandable choice, although I wouldn't be keen on binning him - then we have an elite level full back and a very talented youngster.

Personally I think the most logical choice - obviously assuming we're able to keep Walker - would be to have Walker and Trippier in the squad, and get KWP a Premier League loan. The problem there, of course, is that PL teams might not be willing to give a chance to a kid who has no competitive club football on his CV whatsoever.

If Walker does go, I think we have to sign a proper replacement if possible. I don't personally think Trippier is quite as good, nor do I think he will become as good, and I think it's too early for KWP as well. Having said that, if we need to make a big chunk of money to sort out wages for the rest of our top players. then getting £50m for Walker while having a backup as good as Trippier and a youngster as good as KWP might be the most painless route.

Whatever happens, it's a good problem to have when you're arguing about how best to accommodate three fantastic full backs at various stages of their career.

Krule · Jun 17, 2017

stevenurse said:
Whilst that's great to hear. He's not going to tell some random people on holiday he's not happy and wants to leave. He seems the type that would toe the party line until any deal is done, and no doubt will speak in glowing terms of the club when he does go (and rightly so)

I was just thinking the same thing. Could you imagine being Kyle on holiday and some drunken, muscle bound giant in a Spurs shirt walks up to you menacingly and says "So is it right you're going to City then ????"....you're hardly going to say yes are you ?

Markovan13 · Jun 18, 2017

City are signing Alves...

Bus-Conductor · Jun 18, 2017

Disconosebleed said:
Yes, but Lahm is a much better footballer than Trippier, so that isn't really relevant.

FWIW I don't disagree with you totally, I just think dismissing Walker's qualities because they are physical is silly, pace and strength are just as legitimate qualities in a defender as any other.

Your point above about training players to cover their weaknesses is fair, but ignores the fact that in this respect Walker has come on an astonishing rate in the past few years, for a long time he was nothing but pace and power, but has improved so much that we're now worried about losing him to an elite club for crazy money rather than wondering if we should fuck him off to a lower-level side.

What it comes down to IMO is this. We have three right backs at the moment: Walker, Trippier and KWP. One is a top class PL player, one is a good PL player who could reach that level if given the chance, and one is a talented youngster who could reach that level if given the chance. My issue isn't with KWP coming through - I agree with you that he's one of the most talented players I've seen at youth level, and I have higher hopes than any of the other kids in our setup - but getting rid of Walker to accommodate him is a huge issue, because then you're stuck with two maybes in that position, both of whom could match/better Walker but neither of whom are currently as good, or guaranteed to be as good. Getting rid of Trippier would be a more understandable choice, although I wouldn't be keen on binning him - then we have an elite level full back and a very talented youngster.

Personally I think the most logical choice - obviously assuming we're able to keep Walker - would be to have Walker and Trippier in the squad, and get KWP a Premier League loan. The problem there, of course, is that PL teams might not be willing to give a chance to a kid who has no competitive club football on his CV whatsoever.

If Walker does go, I think we have to sign a proper replacement if possible. I don't personally think Trippier is quite as good, nor do I think he will become as good, and I think it's too early for KWP as well. Having said that, if we need to make a big chunk of money to sort out wages for the rest of our top players. then getting £50m for Walker while having a backup as good as Trippier and a youngster as good as KWP might be the most painless route.

Whatever happens, it's a good problem to have when you're arguing about how best to accommodate three fantastic full backs at various stages of their career.

Tripper is already better than Walker in the opponents half. We beat everyone we played with Trippier instead of Walker at the back end including Arsenal and ManU. The only game we lost was the West Ham game where Walker was poor (as he was against Palace). And even the Chelsea cup game (the only game we lost with Trippier in the back end of the season) Trippier was fine and we outplayed them for big chunks, they scored two of their goals with Walker on the pitch.

I think at the very worst Trippier's defensive inferiority isn't going to cost us what his offensive superiority will gain us, especially if we continue to play 3CB's.

And that's assuming Poch can't improve Trippier defensively the way he improved Walker (and fuck me did he need improving). Why wouldn't he?

I'm really not feeling the panic. Sorry. And I'm also not panicked in the slightest by KWP, in fact the thought of him playing excites me. He may not succeed, but he's sure as shit ready to try and I'd put money on him not being the catastrophe some think.

spurs9 · Jun 18, 2017

Bus-Conductor said:
Deemed him ready to be part of the first team squad though, and you would hope that's because he believes he's not going to be a disaster if he has to play.

Either way I stand by my point, he's been playing against the best attack in the league for a year, you would hope that would have helped prepare him wouldn't you?

I think the fact that we are looking at other RBs for if/when Walker leaves speaks volumes about how ready Poch feels KWP is.

Maybe playing against the best attack in training has helped but if it has it hasn't helped enough yet or maybe it's demonstrated a big gap(s) that needs working on, which could be something physical like strength or perhaps we are working on something tactical that hasn't Stuck yet, whatever it is Poch has deemed him not yet ready.

Bus-Conductor · Jun 18, 2017

spurs9 said:
I think the fact that we are looking at other RBs for if/when Walker leaves speaks volumes about how ready Poch feels KWP is.

Maybe playing against the best attack in training has helped but if it has it hasn't helped enough yet or maybe it's demonstrated a big gap(s) that needs working on, which could be something physical like strength or perhaps we are working on something tactical that hasn't Stuck yet, whatever it is Poch has deemed him not yet ready.

Poch thought Son could play LWB in a cup semi final. he also thought Onomah was only ready for 18 minutes of wide forward play in the league last year. He's not right about everything.

DCSPUR · Jun 18, 2017

The Citeh news is brilliant for us....signing Alves --- not way Kyle goes there now in a WC year
Had been getting prepared for life without KW and playing around with different scenerios had almost convinced myself we were going to be in better shape....then when I factored keeping him it became clear we are going to be so much better with KW and KT.

Still can make some cash from selling MoSi (24 mill), GKN (8m), Fazio (7m), Clinton (5), Wimmer (12m) which should cover:
Pau, Sessengnon and Barkley

EQP · Jun 18, 2017

DCSPUR said:
The Citeh news is brilliant for us....signing Alves --- not way Kyle goes there now in a WC year
Had been getting prepared for life without KW and playing around with different scenerios had almost convinced myself we were going to be in better shape....then when I factored keeping him it became clear we are going to be so much better with KW and KT.

Still can make some cash from selling MoSi (24 mill), GKN (8m), Fazio (7m), Clinton (5), Wimmer (12m) which should cover:
Pau, Sessengnon and Barkley

We owe Newcastle 30 mill, we aren't making any profit or our money back from Sissoko unless we sell him for more thank 30 mill.

Clark28 · Jun 18, 2017

Walker staying would be good, KWP will have no pressure to immediately make the step up.

He can be integrated into the first team over the season, and if he holds his own, then one of KW or KT could go this time next year.

EastLondonYid · Jun 18, 2017

Blake Griffin said:
did winks go from being a kid who had never played a first team game anywhere to being our main backup to dembele and one of the first players we call upon outside of the starting 11 in a matter of months or not? i don't really see who all these other options at cm are either but enjoy your drinks

Winks was slowly eased into a winning team where we did have other CM options and no one was sold for him to replace and he had less pressure...he took his chance and i think thats the way forward for KWP, let the kid grow into the first team..
KWP would in essence replace Walker and be our only RB if Trippier was out.that may make or break him, but its a huge risk not to buy another established RB.

Funny how probably the best manger of the modern era wants Walker....yet alot of experts on here don't.

razzmaster · Jun 18, 2017

EastLondonYid said:
Winks was slowly eased into a winning team where we did have other CM options and no one was sold for him to replace and he had less pressure...he took his chance and i think thats the way forward for KWP, let the kid grow into the first team..
KWP would in essence replace Walker and be our only RB if Trippier was out.that may make or break him, but its a huge risk not to buy another established RB.

Funny how probably the best manger of the modern era wants Walker....yet alot of experts on here don't.

He also wanted Bravo and Stones. No manager is always 100% right. Apparently Poch is happy for Walker to go so is he in the same bracket as those 'experts' on here?

How did the best manager of the modern era not win anything last season despite a huge transfer budget and an expensively assembled squad at his disposal?

EastLondonYid · Jun 18, 2017

razzmaster said:
He also wanted Bravo and Stones. No manager is always 100% right. Apparently Poch is happy for Walker to go so is he in the same bracket as those 'experts' on here?

How did the best manager of the modern era not win anything last season despite a huge transfer budget and an expensively assembled squad at his disposal?

So lets get this straight....you don't rate Pep?

Did Poch tell you he is ''happy'' to let him go...you can let someone go for a number of reasons

And i agree all managers get things wrong, Sissoko Janssen.

razzmaster · Jun 18, 2017

EastLondonYid said:
So lets get this straight....you don't rate Pep?

Did Poch tell you he is ''happy'' to let him go...you can let someone go for a number of reasons

And i agree all managers get things wrong, Sissoko Janssen.

I do rate Pep but I don't agree that just because he wants Walker then others can't have a different opinion. I also think Pep has a lot to prove after a very poor season.

Poch has stated that the only players who will leave are ones we don't want to keep. So if Walker goes then it is with Pochs blessing. In which case it appears that Poch has the same opinion as a lot of 'experts' on here.

Poch didn't tell me he was happy to let Walker go, it's just an assumption. Did Pep tell you that he 'wants' Walker?

EastLondonYid · Jun 18, 2017

razzmaster said:
I do rate Pep but I don't agree that just because he wants Walker then others can't have a different opinion. I also think Pep has a lot to prove after a very poor season.

Poch has stated that the only players who will leave are ones we don't want to keep. So if Walker goes then it is with Pochs blessing. In which case it appears that Poch has the same opinion as a lot of 'experts' on here.

Poch didn't tell me he was happy to let Walker go, it's just an assumption. Did Pep tell you that he 'wants' Walker?

Your abit naive if you think Poch would keep a player worth 50m if the player said he really wanted out.

My original point wasn't about whether Poch or Pep wants walker or if walker will stay or go.....my whole point was that we shouldn't start the season with only Trippier and KWP

DCSPUR · Jun 18, 2017

SlumDilla said:
We owe Newcastle 30 mill, we aren't making any profit or our money back from Sissoko unless we sell him for more thank 30 mill.

Not how it works. The pot of money for transfers is separate from stadium money but data and comments from those in the know show a strong desire on Levy's part to keep that as a neutral spend (and you could easily imagine a business decision to do that with the stadium build). Over the last 5 years excluding the Jan transfer window we are at 1 mill net. Not a coincidence. And while it does not take into acc amortization/ staggered payments, that cuts both ways.
Reasonable therefore to anticipate a continuation of that trend.
Now, I calculated those numbers including 24 for MoSi after also calculating the full 30 against last seasons records (the same measure as transfer league). What I had not done was calculate in the money for Tommy Carroll and Nabil, which would increase the net spend pot by 24-25 million.

mano-obe · Jun 19, 2017

Alves has apparently been released. Not sure if that's good or bad unless Kyle is gonna knuckle down and Ponch is happy

tiger666 · Jun 20, 2017

mano-obe said:
Alves has apparently been released. Not sure if that's good or bad unless Kyle is gonna knuckle down and Ponch is happy

Why would they release him? He's under contract.

WalkerboyUK · Jun 21, 2017

Just thinking about the Walker situation towards the end of the season.
Wasn't it last year that Trippier couldn't even get in the squad, and Poch revealed that it was because his wife had given birth and that led to sleepless nights, lack of focus etc?
If so, is it not also possible that Walker has been going through similar over the last few months, following the birth of his kid?
Would possibly explain why he wasn't playing when we all expected him to.

Anyway, good luck to him if he goes to City, and Alves does as well. Massive risk to his starting role for England, in a WC season.

mano-obe · Jun 30, 2017

Manchester City have opened talks with Tottenham about the potential signing of defender Kyle Walker.

Negotiations for the England international are at an early stage, and no fee has been agreed.

Fellow full-back Kieran Tripper is reportedly set to sign a new five-year deal with Spurs, which could pave the way for Walker to move to City.

Walker, 27, has made 183 Premier League appearances since joining Spurs from Sheffield United in 2009.

He was also picked in the 2016-17 Premier League team of the year.

City boss Pep Guardiola released three full-backs at the end of last season, including both right-sided players - Pablo Zabaleta and Bacary Sagna.

He is yet to bring in a replacement, though he is keen to sign Dani Alves, whose exit from Juventus was officially confirmed by the Serie A champions on Thursday.

It is understood Sheffield United have a sell-on clause of 10% of any fee above the estimated £3m they sold Walker for eight years ago.

SugarRay · Jun 30, 2017

EastLondonYid said:
Winks was slowly eased into a winning team where we did have other CM options and no one was sold for him to replace and he had less pressure...he took his chance and i think thats the way forward for KWP, let the kid grow into the first team..
KWP would in essence replace Walker and be our only RB if Trippier was out.that may make or break him, but its a huge risk not to buy another established RB.

Funny how probably the best manger of the modern era wants Walker....yet alot of experts on here don't.

His stats are flawed. Managing two freakishly great sides, with very little competition in their domestic league.

I'm not a believer that he can set up sides well enough defensively.

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