Marty
Audere est farce
- Mar 10, 2005
- 40,126
- 63,608
Above the goons on merit despite a (marginally) harder start, get in.
Great table, tbf. Proves what we've all been saying.
Race for the Top 4 - 2017/18
- Thread starter am_yisrael_chai
- Start date
Great table, tbf. Proves what we've all been saying.
StartingPrice
Chief Sardonicus Hyperlip
- Feb 13, 2004
- 32,568
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Sperrs av gorall arrrr foe'kin dochtears! Find yer own foe'kin dochtears Sperrs! Thev ownly gor'arrrr foe'kin dochtears coz they pay maw waygis...foecoff Sperrrs!
archiewasking
Waiting for silverware..........
- Jul 5, 2004
- 7,861
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Where is Google translate when you need it?
Gbspurs
Gatekeeper for debates, King of the plonkers
- Jan 27, 2011
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Tottenham Hotspur Football Club have obtained all of our expletive medical practitioners. Acquire your own expletive medical practitioners Tottenham Hotspur Football Club! They only have all of our expletive medical practitioners because they return a more substantial remuneration agreement. Depart immediately Tottenham Hotspur Football Club.
Shadydan
Well-Known Member
- Jul 7, 2012
- 38,247
- 104,143
Aguero's back in training
StartingPrice
Chief Sardonicus Hyperlip
- Feb 13, 2004
- 32,568
- 10,280
Meanwhile, back in On Topic Land - where talking about Liverpewel is never on topic because they aren't title contenders:
I still believe we are being hugely underestimated (not that I'm unhappy with that). United and City have had the two easiest starts in the division, according to the table (above). I wouldn't say we are favourites for the league, but I believe we can finish anywhere in the top four, including first.
I saw an article a few days ago - I've trawled back pages on NewsNow but just can't find it, but think it was The Mail. It examined the depth of the top six's attacking options. It went into extreme loving detail over the other five. Did us last, I suppose that was alphabetical. And the analysis consisted of going on and on about how brilliants Kane/Dele/Eriksen are, and then said, basically, Llorente and Son aren't good enough as back ups. That was it, no further analysis required, just a dismissal based on an unqualified assertion.
It is not how I see it at all: Last season we had the joint best attack in the division, I think, and all with a misfiring Janssen and a completely absent Lamela. The analysis of Llorente, if you could call it that, was in stark contrast to that of United/Ibrahimovich. Llorente is 32, has scored goals everywhere he went and scored 15 last season playing for Swansea. I know he hasn't scored in his brief outings this season, but he is recovering from injury. Ibrahimovich is, like 97 years old or something and out injured - and the author of the article was almost literally fapping about how deep he would make United's squad when he returned. We had the best attack last season and were the only club to have three players score over twenty goals, Last season our attack was
Kane Eriksen Dele
Son Janssen
This season it is (or soon will be)
Kane Erisken Dele (plus one year experience,maturity and cohesion)
Son Llorente Lamela
Personally, I think that is pretty damned impressive and can't imagine why an article discussing attacking depth should dismiss it as Son and Llorente (no mention of Lamela) - not good enough. With no debate about the goal-scoring exploits of last season, how our young players are still maturing and improving, the return of Lamela or even the qualities Llorente brings, or that Son can play up front too.
This is backed up by the best defence in the division, that has improved. I can't believe you can't still get 14 - 1 (plus) on us winning the league.
I still believe we are being hugely underestimated (not that I'm unhappy with that). United and City have had the two easiest starts in the division, according to the table (above). I wouldn't say we are favourites for the league, but I believe we can finish anywhere in the top four, including first.
I saw an article a few days ago - I've trawled back pages on NewsNow but just can't find it, but think it was The Mail. It examined the depth of the top six's attacking options. It went into extreme loving detail over the other five. Did us last, I suppose that was alphabetical. And the analysis consisted of going on and on about how brilliants Kane/Dele/Eriksen are, and then said, basically, Llorente and Son aren't good enough as back ups. That was it, no further analysis required, just a dismissal based on an unqualified assertion.
It is not how I see it at all: Last season we had the joint best attack in the division, I think, and all with a misfiring Janssen and a completely absent Lamela. The analysis of Llorente, if you could call it that, was in stark contrast to that of United/Ibrahimovich. Llorente is 32, has scored goals everywhere he went and scored 15 last season playing for Swansea. I know he hasn't scored in his brief outings this season, but he is recovering from injury. Ibrahimovich is, like 97 years old or something and out injured - and the author of the article was almost literally fapping about how deep he would make United's squad when he returned. We had the best attack last season and were the only club to have three players score over twenty goals, Last season our attack was
Kane Eriksen Dele
Son Janssen
This season it is (or soon will be)
Kane Erisken Dele (plus one year experience,maturity and cohesion)
Son Llorente Lamela
Personally, I think that is pretty damned impressive and can't imagine why an article discussing attacking depth should dismiss it as Son and Llorente (no mention of Lamela) - not good enough. With no debate about the goal-scoring exploits of last season, how our young players are still maturing and improving, the return of Lamela or even the qualities Llorente brings, or that Son can play up front too.
This is backed up by the best defence in the division, that has improved. I can't believe you can't still get 14 - 1 (plus) on us winning the league.
- Oct 2, 2004
- 48,185
- 47,185
- Staff
- #191
I agree that to dismiss Son and Llorente is ridiculous, particularly considering the number of goals each have scored in recent seasons.
Lamela though is practically an unknown quantity at this stage and until we see him actually perform well I don't think we can consider him as a certain positive in our season.
I think City's attacking options are frightening and that puts them as favourites for this season, but I think we stack up fairly favourably against everyone else.
If Lukaku gets injured, for example, United's entire strategy is fucked, whereas if Kane gets injured I'd be confidend Llorente would allow us to continue doing what we're doing, albeit perhaps not as effectively.
I think the real fear factor with City is their midfield. Their attack is scary, but the midfield is technically the best in the league by some margin. Silva, Silva, De Bruyne and then pacy runners off them, with strong full backs now (and Mendy looks particularly good). They look the real deal. Guardiola seems to have them all on board, and his tactics are working well. Moving the fullbacks inside to dominate the midfield against Chelsea for example was a very impressive move*
I'm also not sure about their strong start being down to fixtures. Utd have had no difficult games, but City have already beaten Liverpool at home and Chelsea away.
*I still rate Poch more highly as he's far better at developing players and manages to get teams playing without just buying whoever he wants. Guardiola has only ever had great players to work with, or an endless pit of cash, or both.
- May 8, 2005
- 41,857
- 25,920
- Admin
- #193
Sure I saw a list where someone calculated the difficulty of games based on performance so far this season, and City had the second easiest fixtures after United.
Luka Van der Bale
Well-Known Member
- Jan 29, 2011
- 6,041
- 13,611
Yes but they won at Stamford Bridge and beat Liverpool 5-0. Average position isn’t the only way to measure the difficulty of matches. Those two results have laid down a marker to the rest of the league imo.
- Oct 2, 2004
- 48,185
- 47,185
- Staff
- #195
Whichever way you look at it City have looked very good...and better than us.
As others have said they slapped Liverpool and beat Chelsea whilst we're still yet to win at home.
None of this means they'll definitely win the title or that we definitely won't (you just have to look at City's start last year to realise that) but their start has been by far the most impressive, and together with the fact that on paper they have the strongest squad, that's why they are justified favourites at this stage.
There would certainly be no shame in not beating the two Manchester clubs to the title considering the ludicrous amount of money they've spent and I think we all need to remember that.
StartingPrice
Chief Sardonicus Hyperlip
- Feb 13, 2004
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Regarding Lamela: I agree. We don't know how well he will reintegrate. But my primary purpose was to highlight the ridiculously lop-sided way the article (and the footballing world in general IMHO) assess us compared to the other five of the 'Top Six Teams' (it suddenly became a Big Six when we were consistently finishing fifth or higher and Liverpool seventh or lower). So, Ibrahimovich is injured and 37 (is it?), but when he returns from injury he is going to give United such amazing back up to Lukaku. But Lamela isn't even mentioned and Son/Llorente dismissed out of hand. If we apply the same criteria to Lamela as the author did to Ibrahimovich, we are talking about a former child prodigy, our record signing at the time, and a player who most Spurs fans could see was dictating our tempo and improving very rapidly. On that basis, Son Llorente Lamela is potentially a pretty impressive second string front three. But the only assessment was Son, Llorente, no mention of Lamela - not good enough.
Regarding Citeh's attack: I agree. We all know that their attack is what it is - hugely expensive (City, innit). But the article went into the details of it in unctious detail, awarding them 9.5 - and then dismissed our second string of Son Llorente Lamela out of hand, awarding us 7.5. If you want to expand the debate, I would say, the fact that our attacking options were joint highest scorers last season, we had three players who scored more than twenty goals (the only top flight side to do so), and our options are improved, means we shouldn't be so intimidated by their front line. Ours is pretty damned impressive too. Besides which, in my OP I mentioned that it is about consistency and team balance, not about holding two sets of attackers names up against the light and saying one looks more impressive. We only play City twice - and there is no guarantee that they are going to wipe the floor with us. And, IMHO, our side is the best balanced in the division. We were joint top scorers last season...but also had the best defence. We don't know yet how good City's defence is but we know how good ours is, and it is improving. We know that their midfield is pretty strong, but ours is pretty damned impressive, both in going forward and in shielding the defence. But the article was about comparing attacks, and the author fapped over each and every one of City's attacking options, and then dismissed Son Llorente Lamela (who wasn't even mentioned) out of hand.
As said in OP, I am not saying we are favourites but I do think we are being written off again way too easily. I think we could finish in any position from one to four (hell, the wheels could fall off, and we could finish outside the top ten for all any of us know - but I don't think so). We need to sort Wembley out. But City can't do much about us if we are consistent, other than in the two games we play one another - aside from be more consistent. Just highlighting the way media analysis is so lopsided is all.
- Oct 2, 2004
- 48,185
- 47,185
- Staff
- #197
You're right certainly about the media being lopsided.
The media automatically tend to focus on those who have won before, and those who have spent boat loads of cash, and that doesn't cover us in either situation.
Let's ignore the fact that we've finished above Liverpool and Man United for the majority of the last few seasons...because they've spent a bit of cash or both have a gobby manager they're definitely in the title hunt instead of Spurs. Hell I saw some papers suggest Everton would be looking to take our spot in the top 4 this year (errr...it's actually our spot in the top 2 knobheads).
But whilst it may be frustrating from a fan perspective, I think it plays into our hands to be overlooked in these discussions.
We seem to be at our best when we're not expected to do well. Just look at the Chelsea game earlier this season where for once we were favourites and we played pretty terribly.
So as you hinted at in your OP, let's be happy we're being ignored in the discussions. That way it won't be considered a disappointment if we don't win the league, and it will make a lot of pundits look incredibly stupid if we do.
StartingPrice
Chief Sardonicus Hyperlip
- Feb 13, 2004
- 32,568
- 10,280
Absolutely. Keep under the radar. Discombobulate the feckers
You are right about the Chelsea game, too. I had a bad feeling about it leading up to the game. That is what makes them (scumbags that they are) a side that wins titles - even with a poor transfer window, things not right between management and board, injuries and a poor start, they could come to our place (it's not) and weather it. With us, on the other hand, it shows that at that precise moment, we still lacked that something to actually perform when we are expected to perform. I should qualify that, however, by noting that things may have been very different if Harry Kane didn't have that ludicrous August thing goin' on. He hit the woodwork three times in that dreadful bloody month - you can't make that shit up! If he was firing on all cylinders as he does every other month of the year we may well have done was was expected of us - put the Chavs to the sword. We would probably also sitting up with City and United on points and goals scored. So let's hope that is our blip for the season - and we can put the Chelsea game to rights by going to their place and taking three points when we aren't expected to win, to restore that particular piece of equilibrium.
StartingPrice
Chief Sardonicus Hyperlip
- Feb 13, 2004
- 32,568
- 10,280
I agree...so I hope you don't mean us
I have a pretty good idea of how the media works. I'm happy for us to go under the radar. And I take hours of amusement at the way they just can't (or won't) adjust their thinking on Liverpewel
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