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Clucas, simply loveleh.

Lilbaz

Just call me Baz
Apr 1, 2005
41,363
74,893
I don't think this has much to do with political correctness. Swansea are a business with sponsors and commercial partners etc all of whom will be sensitive about their brands being damaged by association with a porn show.

Same reason rob wont let us post the videos. The sponsors will stop wanting to be associated with the site.
 

WalkerboyUK

Well-Known Member
Jun 8, 2009
21,658
23,476
There will always be a handful of people like Walkerboy who thinks everything is PC gone mad most know there is a line and a debate to be had on what is acceptable.

Never heard of this porn site or gesture so no idea if it has gone over the line.

Oh do fuck off.
I have an opinion, you have an opinion... Doesn't mean yours is always right (though that's clearly how you think).

The problem nowadays is that nothing is acceptable, because every little thing in life could offend one single person.
Lets remove the darts walk on girls, who are actually modestly dressed 99% of the time, because it's "not family friendly", yet as per last night, the semi naked cheerleaders on stage aren't an issue. No-one is stopping the women in music videos parade around 75% naked, cavorting with multiple men, yet way more kids watch that than darts.
 

Led's Zeppelin

Can't Re Member
May 28, 2013
7,333
20,178
Oh do fuck off.
I have an opinion, you have an opinion... Doesn't mean yours is always right (though that's clearly how you think).

The problem nowadays is that nothing is acceptable, because every little thing in life could offend one single person.
Lets remove the darts walk on girls, who are actually modestly dressed 99% of the time, because it's "not family friendly", yet as per last night, the semi naked cheerleaders on stage aren't an issue and neither is something like this

It's not about offending people.
 

Lilbaz

Just call me Baz
Apr 1, 2005
41,363
74,893
Oh do fuck off.
I have an opinion, you have an opinion... Doesn't mean yours is always right (though that's clearly how you think).

The problem nowadays is that nothing is acceptable, because every little thing in life could offend one single person.
Lets remove the darts walk on girls, who are actually modestly dressed 99% of the time, because it's "not family friendly", yet as per last night, the semi naked cheerleaders on stage aren't an issue and neither is something like this

Think it's more what sort of image do the club want to convey. Do they want to be considered a lads club or family friendly? If they want to be family friendly they don't want their employees refferencing porn in front of millions of people including children.
Nobody is banning the site. Nobody is saying you can't watch it.
 

dontcallme

SC Supporter
Mar 18, 2005
33,987
81,924
Oh do fuck off.
I have an opinion, you have an opinion... Doesn't mean yours is always right (though that's clearly how you think).

The problem nowadays is that nothing is acceptable, because every little thing in life could offend one single person.
Lets remove the darts walk on girls, who are actually modestly dressed 99% of the time, because it's "not family friendly", yet as per last night, the semi naked cheerleaders on stage aren't an issue... And neither is the front page of the times today showing a woman in a bikini, advertising how to get the perfect summer body. The problem is double standards.

I didn't say I was right. I expressed my opinion and said I didn't know enough about the site Clucas is apparently nodding to have one.

You talk about the darts walk on girls being removed like they have been banned. The PDC received complaints from viewers and opinions that they weren't needed. It was a business decision to remove them. Not PC gone mad or pandering to the left.

The Times is a separate entity and have decided agirl in a bikini is acceptable for their front page.

This is not double standards, they are two different companies with different situations and have taken action in the way they see it.

If The Times received a high number of complaints from their own readers they might make the business decision to remove it. The fact they haven't removed it suggests the world is no way as PC mad or pandering to the feminist agenda as you believe.

And I won't tell you to fuck off because I have basic manners. I also won't move to ban your right to tell me to fuck off despite in my opinion it being completely unnecessary.
 

WalkerboyUK

Well-Known Member
Jun 8, 2009
21,658
23,476
It's not about offending people.

At it's true core it's very much about offending people.
Someone had to complain to Swansea and the FA about it, because they found it offensive.
Personally I don't think it's any worse than a player being caught on camera drunk.
If these clubs want to be family friendly, stop paying their players such obscene money for starters.
Ban any form of celebration and you can't cause anyone to be upset then.
 

WalkerboyUK

Well-Known Member
Jun 8, 2009
21,658
23,476
You talk about the darts walk on girls being removed like they have been banned. The PDC received complaints from viewers and opinions that they weren't needed. It was a business decision to remove them. Not PC gone mad or pandering to the left.

.

They removed them because of a handful of complaints - therefore they did pander...
I still don't understand why people complained, seeing as every time I've watched darts they've been wearing dresses etc.
Maybe I don't just walk around with a chip on my shoulder or looking to be offended by everything.
Someone calls me a **** so f'ing what?!?
Life's too short...
 

Lilbaz

Just call me Baz
Apr 1, 2005
41,363
74,893
They removed them because of a handful of complaints - therefore they did pander...
I still don't understand why people complained, seeing as every time I've watched darts they've been wearing dresses etc.
Maybe I don't just walk around with a chip on my shoulder or looking to be offended by everything.
Someone calls me a **** so f'ing what?!?
Life's too short...

You seem upset about this though.
 

WalkerboyUK

Well-Known Member
Jun 8, 2009
21,658
23,476
You seem upset about this though.

I'm sick of the fact that my kids are going to be growing up where every bit of free speech/opinion is taken away.
Everyone's being turned into a fucking robot - "YOU MUST THINK AND BEHAVE THIS WAY".

No wonder we have a generation of softies who can't hack it when something challenging comes along.
 

Led's Zeppelin

Can't Re Member
May 28, 2013
7,333
20,178
At it's true core it's very much about offending people.
Someone had to complain to Swansea and the FA about it, because they found it offensive.
Personally I don't think it's any worse than a player being caught on camera drunk.
If these clubs want to be family friendly, stop paying their players such obscene money for starters.
Ban any form of celebration and you can't cause anyone to be upset then.

No, it's not about offending people. It's about consequences.

Think about the statistics for adolescent suicide. Think about the mental disorders that young people are increasingly suffering from, including self-harming, eating disorders such as bulimia and anorexia; there's very little disagreement (is there?) that a lot of misery is caused to young girls in particular feeling that they have to live up to unrealistic standards of physical appearance.

Increasingly it's also about unrealistic sexual aspirations too, with girls (maybe some boys too, butI'd bet it's mainly girls) being made to believe that all sorts of things are expected of them that they may not actually want to do, or be ready to even think about doing. Obviously not all suicides and other awful problems are due to this sort of pressure , but some are, and that is bad, and it some of it could be prevented.

I'm not suggesting Clucas knew or thought about any of this but I'm glad that his club don't take the attitude that ignorance makes things OK. Ignorance may occasionally be an excuse, depending on circumstances, but it doesn't mean it should be treated as normal responsible behaviour, or that we should make excuses for it.
 

dontcallme

SC Supporter
Mar 18, 2005
33,987
81,924
They removed them because of a handful of complaints - therefore they did pander...
I still don't understand why people complained, seeing as every time I've watched darts they've been wearing dresses etc.
Maybe I don't just walk around with a chip on my shoulder or looking to be offended by everything.
Someone calls me a **** so f'ing what?!?
Life's too short...

Like I say it was a business decision.

It is generally accepted that TV during peak tmes shouldn't have swearing, nudity etc. If a young child wakes up at 6am before the parents and watches TV it is expected that the content will be accpetable for a child of that age.

Swansea have spoken out not becasue of people being offended. They have deemed the actions as not in line with their club as they don;'t want their young fans exposed to what Clucas was referring to.

The point is there is always a line of what is acceptable. This has always been true to TV, films, newspapers. Now football clubs are starting to draw harsher lines on accpetable chants and actions in football stadiums.

You constantly making out everything is PC gone mad, pandering to the left and whatever phrases the Daily Mail throw out like they mean something is intentionally dumbing down the debate and ignoring the actual point.
 

Led's Zeppelin

Can't Re Member
May 28, 2013
7,333
20,178
Anyone with young children should be pleased that we're finally starting to understand the sort of pressures they're often under during the time of their lives when they should enjoy themselves without being judged the whole time, and shouldn't be worrying about shit like what their hair looks like, whether they'll have figures like a cheer-leader and all the other bollocks that our marvellous media push incessantly at them.

Why shouldn't people express their concerns? Why shouldn't they care about the effects this crap can have on people too young to know what's going on and often too vulnerable and easily lead to stand up to it even if they do get that it's not right for them?

Please don't dismiss it as people simply looking for things to be offended about. It's really not about that at all.
 

WalkerboyUK

Well-Known Member
Jun 8, 2009
21,658
23,476
No, it's not about offending people. It's about consequences.

Think about the statistics for adolescent suicide. Think about the mental disorders that young people are increasingly suffering from, including self-harming, eating disorders such as bulimia and anorexia; there's very little disagreement (is there?) that a lot of misery is caused to young girls in particular feeling that they have to live up to unrealistic standards of physical appearance.

Increasingly it's also about unrealistic sexual aspirations too, with girls (maybe some boys too, butI'd bet it's mainly girls) being made to believe that all sorts of things are expected of them that they may not actually want to do, or be ready to even think about doing. Obviously not all suicides and other awful problems are due to this sort of pressure , but some are, and that is bad, and it some of it could be prevented.

I'm not suggesting Clucas knew or thought about any of this but I'm glad that his club don't take the attitude that ignorance makes things OK. Ignorance may occasionally be an excuse, depending on circumstances, but it doesn't mean it should be treated as normal responsible behaviour, or that we should make excuses for it.

I totally get that, but using the examples of F1 & darts, that's not where the issue lies. What's effectively being said by their removal is that good looking women cannot have jobs that make use of their looks. A lot of people have suggested that maybe those women should go do other modelling - not that easy. It's a cut-throat industry as it is, and having even more pushing for a limited number of spots increases the pressure on those very same models to look a certain way.
Other suggestions are that they're just thickos who should have done better at school.

The issue is mainly with social media and music.
I have a 14 yr old daughter - she doesn't watch F1, darts etc. but she watches a lot of music videos and Youtube.
No-one bats an eyelid at female pop-stars being semi-naked because "that's empowering" and obviously there's way too much money involved in the industry for the girls to be told to cover up. Oh and while we're at it - the blokes should cover up as well.
Thankfully she's also incredibly mentally strong and self willed (has to be with me as a dad :D) and doesn't fall for any of the trappings. It's also why she's already at GCSE level B in all her subjects two years before she even get's to the exams.

I personally don't have an issue with this specific goal celebration. If my 11 yr old son mimics it up the park, so what. He doesn't know the (potential) meaning behind it and as long as it stays that way it's inoffensive.
Likewise, I've clamped down on what he can watch on YouTube.
However, I hate the attitude and language he has picked up by watching the likes of KSI & Sidemen. I can police that - and as a responsible parent that's what I should be allowed to do. I shouldn't have someone else somewhere decide for me.
 

Lilbaz

Just call me Baz
Apr 1, 2005
41,363
74,893
I'm sick of the fact that my kids are going to be growing up where every bit of free speech/opinion is taken away.
Everyone's being turned into a fucking robot - "YOU MUST THINK AND BEHAVE THIS WAY".

No wonder we have a generation of softies who can't hack it when something challenging comes along.

Can you tell me a time when it would have been acceptable for a footballer to reference porn/ in a goal celebration? Do you think bill nick would have been ok with it?
 

WalkerboyUK

Well-Known Member
Jun 8, 2009
21,658
23,476
Can you tell me a time when it would have been acceptable for a footballer to reference porn/ in a goal celebration? Do you think bill nick would have been ok with it?

Bill Nick wouldn't have been happy with anything other than a standard hand-shake.
Ban all the goal celebrations - sorted.
 

Lilbaz

Just call me Baz
Apr 1, 2005
41,363
74,893
I totally get that, but using the examples of F1 & darts, that's not where the issue lies. What's effectively being said by their removal is that good looking women cannot have jobs that make use of their looks. A lot of people have suggested that maybe those women should go do other modelling - not that easy. It's a cut-throat industry as it is, and having even more pushing for a limited number of spots increases the pressure on those very same models to look a certain way.
Other suggestions are that they're just thickos who should have done better at school.

The issue is mainly with social media and music.
I have a 14 yr old daughter - she doesn't watch F1, darts etc. but she watches a lot of music videos and Youtube.
No-one bats an eyelid at female pop-stars being semi-naked because "that's empowering" and obviously there's way too much money involved in the industry for the girls to be told to cover up. Oh and while we're at it - the blokes should cover up as well.
Thankfully she's also incredibly mentally strong and self willed (has to be with me as a dad :D) and doesn't fall for any of the trappings. It's also why she's already at GCSE level B in all her subjects two years before she even get's to the exams.

I personally don't have an issue with this specific goal celebration. If my 11 yr old son mimics it up the park, so what. He doesn't know the (potential) meaning behind it and as long as it stays that way it's inoffensive.
Likewise, I've clamped down on what he can watch on YouTube.
However, I hate the attitude and language he has picked up by watching the likes of KSI & Sidemen. I can police that - and as a responsible parent that's what I should be allowed to do. I shouldn't have someone else somewhere decide for me.

So will you show your daughter the site in question and tell her that it's ok for her to do those things as they are not degrading to women?
 

WalkerboyUK

Well-Known Member
Jun 8, 2009
21,658
23,476
So will you show your daughter the site in question and tell her that it's ok for her to do those things as they are not degrading to women?

She's 14 - she cringes at even the merest mention of me and my wife having sex and tells us to shut up.
Why on earth, at that age, would I show her that site??
I haven't even looked at the site, and have no intention of doing so.
From what I read, if those women are choosing to do things, of their own free will, that's their choice.
 

Led's Zeppelin

Can't Re Member
May 28, 2013
7,333
20,178
I totally get that, but using the examples of F1 & darts, that's not where the issue lies. What's effectively being said by their removal is that good looking women cannot have jobs that make use of their looks. A lot of people have suggested that maybe those women should go do other modelling - not that easy. It's a cut-throat industry as it is, and having even more pushing for a limited number of spots increases the pressure on those very same models to look a certain way.
Other suggestions are that they're just thickos who should have done better at school.

The issue there is mainly with social media and music.
I have a 14 yr old daughter - she doesn't watch F1, darts etc. but she watches a lot of music videos.
No-one bats an eyelid at female pop-stars being semi-naked because "that's empowering" and obviously there's way too much money involved in the industry for the girls to be told to cover up. Oh and while we're at it - the blokes should cover up as well.
Thankfully she's also incredibly mentally strong and self willed (has to be with me as a dad :D) and doesn't fall for any of the trappings.

I personally don't have an issue with this specific goal celebration. If my 11 yr old son mimics it up the park, so what. He doesn't know the (potential) meaning behind it and as long as it stays that way it's inoffensive.
Likewise, I've clamped down on what he can watch on YouTube.
However, I hate the attitude and language he has picked up by watching the likes of KSI & Sidemen. I can police that - and as a responsible parent that's what I should be allowed to do. I shouldn't have someone else somewhere decide for me.

No one is deciding for you.

You are free, within the law, to do as you like.

But we are talking about the effects that behaviour has on other people, who are often unable to look after themselves for whatever reason, youth often being one of them.

There has to be a balance between freedom and responsibility, and while every individual case, like Clucas and Weinstein might open a separate debate, and you are free to bring up your kids in the way you see fit, the overall principle, that we should be a bit more sensitive to these issues, is surely a good thing and not the tyranny of PC in the way that you're characterising it, isn't it?
 
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