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The Rugby Thread

E17yid

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Jan 21, 2013
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I didn't actually see what he said about Gregor Townsend. But I don't think anyone is under any illusion as to what sort of character Eddie is.

I actually mean the public more than the squad. Maybe it's just my experience, but I've always found the Welsh public generally to me much more chippy about England than anyone else, and often are unable to separate any rugby criticism from a lifelong hatred of the English brought about by things that happened quite a while ago.

I'm sure some of the squad feel that way as well, but you'd trust Gatland to be able to focus that properly so not really sure Eddie gains much by it. As you say, the way to take it is all in good jest and concentrate on the rugby itself.

You’re not far wrong, tbf. I’ve said before when we’ve touched on this subject that some of it is generational. I go into my old mans local and most blokes over 50 still have the mentality that as long as we beat England they’ll be happy with the wodden spoon.

That kind of mindset has been standard for decades but I think that is subsiding, largely due to the success we’ve had in the 6N over the last decade.

I’m glad you’re speaking in a rugby context as this is what it comes down to. We’re different in that Rugby is a massive part of our modern, cultural identity. It means a lot. In Scotland, England etc it’s not as important so I think that’s another reason why we can get a bit more heated than say your average Scot. There’s no doubt that the Welsh/English rivalry is the most fierce.

No doubt it’s not just rugby as there’s other historical things at play here but the 70s/80s was a long time ago now.

Who knows, though. These things are complex and you can’t put 3 million people into the same box (not saying you’re doing that by the way) and like you I can only speak of my experience (which is pretty limited as I only manage to get up to Wales 2 maybe 3 times a year)

It’s also worth mentioning, like Gatland said the other day, that Wales is extremely tribal and we’re no different to any other place in that sense as local rivalries can be more important than national ones. My dad, for example, is pretty old school, votes Plaid, just wants to beat England, can be very petty but would rather lose to England if it meant Neath beating Llanelli.

Having said all that, if Jones is trying to wind up the public I don’t know why as I can’t really see it having an effect on the game. Surely even he doesn’t want an extra intimidating atmosphere (not that a wales England games needs it)
 

E17yid

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Jan 21, 2013
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Was convinced he’d play North instead of Adams and have Williams on the bench to cover wing and FB but maybe Liam ain’t ready. North on the bench.
 

talkshowhost86

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Oct 2, 2004
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You’re not far wrong, tbf. I’ve said before when we’ve touched on this subject that some of it is generational. I go into my old mans local and most blokes over 50 still have the mentality that as long as we beat England they’ll be happy with the wodden spoon.

That kind of mindset has been standard for decades but I think that is subsiding, largely due to the success we’ve had in the 6N over the last decade.

I’m glad you’re speaking in a rugby context as this is what it comes down to. We’re different in that Rugby is a massive part of our modern, cultural identity. It means a lot. In Scotland, England etc it’s not as important so I think that’s another reason why we can get a bit more heated than say your average Scot. There’s no doubt that the Welsh/English rivalry is the most fierce.

No doubt it’s not just rugby as there’s other historical things at play here but the 70s/80s was a long time ago now.

Who knows, though. These things are complex and you can’t put 3 million people into the same box (not saying you’re doing that by the way) and like you I can only speak of my experience (which is pretty limited as I only manage to get up to Wales 2 maybe 3 times a year)

It’s also worth mentioning, like Gatland said the other day, that Wales is extremely tribal and we’re no different to any other place in that sense as local rivalries can be more important than national ones. My dad, for example, is pretty old school, votes Plaid, just wants to beat England, can be very petty but would rather lose to England if it meant Neath beating Llanelli.

Having said all that, if Jones is trying to wind up the public I don’t know why as I can’t really see it having an effect on the game. Surely even he doesn’t want an extra intimidating atmosphere (not that a wales England games needs it)

I think you're right that Wales takes rugby much more to heart because it's a more important part of the culture there.

I do wish though that more Welsh rugby fans could celebrate a win over the English without treating it like a war victory, or be able to take criticism of some aspects of Welsh rugby without seeing it as a sign that we want to burn all Welsh people's land.

Perhaps it's harder to understand for us in England because, and I mean this in as respectful a way as possible, we don't really care that much about the rivalry with Wales. Certainly not more than the rivalry we have with Ireland/Scotland/France, whereas as you say it's the most important rivalry in the World for quite a few Welsh rugby fans. I was about to make a very unflattering football comparison, but I won't because I respect you too much E17 :)

As you rightly say though it isn't everyone (my experiences come from my grandparents living in North Wales...so maybe they're just all mental up there) and I do hope it becomes slightly less of a nationalistic battle in the future.

Mind you...where would the fun in that be?
 

talkshowhost86

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Oct 2, 2004
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Was convinced he’d play North instead of Adams and have Williams on the bench to cover wing and FB but maybe Liam ain’t ready. North on the bench.

Think it would have sent a pretty poor message out to the squad if he'd dumped any of them following the result last week, plus whilst people are getting very excited about North's performance against Quins, it was only in the Ango-Welsh cup...and perhaps more importantly it was against Quins who have defended like a sieve for most of the season.

Is Anscombe basically covering the entirety of the Welsh back line, or would they potentially put North on at full-back/centre if needed?
 

E17yid

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Jan 21, 2013
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Wales team: Halfpenny (Scarlets); Adams (Worcester), S Williams (Scarlets), Parkes (Scarlets), S Evans (Scarlets); Rhys Patchell (Scarlets), G Davies (Scarlets); R Evans (Scarlets), Owens (Scarlets), Lee (Scarlets), Hill (Dragons), AW Jones (Ospreys capt), Shingler (Scarlets), Navidi (Cardiff Blues), Moriarty (Gloucester).

Replacements: Dee (Dragons), W Jones (Scarlets), Francis (Exeter Chiefs), B Davies (Ospreys), Tipuric (Ospreys), A Davies (Scarlets), Anscombe (Cardiff Blues), North (Northampton).
 

E17yid

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Jan 21, 2013
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Feel sorry for Watkin but Gatland doesn’t mind putting North in the center, to answer your earlier question TSH.
 

E17yid

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Jan 21, 2013
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Think it would have sent a pretty poor message out to the squad if he'd dumped any of them following the result last week, plus whilst people are getting very excited about North's performance against Quins, it was only in the Ango-Welsh cup...and perhaps more importantly it was against Quins who have defended like a sieve for most of the season.

Is Anscombe basically covering the entirety of the Welsh back line, or would they potentially put North on at full-back/centre if needed?

I’m not sure relegating Adams to the bench would’ve sent out that message but could be wrong. Either way happy enough but like you’ve all said on here not reading to much into that Scotland performance. No doubt I’m a lot more optimistic about making Saturday a contest but I can’t see past a relatively comfortable England win by 14-20 points.
 

'O Zio

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Dec 27, 2014
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HIA protocols need to be looked at after the way the French abused the rules.

Agree. That was absolutely ridiculous. It was quite clearly his knee he'd hurt not his head and I'm pretty sure the ref knew it. He asked the assisstant about 50 times if he was absolutely sure, giving him every opportunity to get out of it but the idiot still kept saying "yep it's come straight from teh doctor, it's definitely a head injury" like an idiot.
 

Japhet

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Aug 30, 2010
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Agree. That was absolutely ridiculous. It was quite clearly his knee he'd hurt not his head and I'm pretty sure the ref knew it. He asked the assisstant about 50 times if he was absolutely sure, giving him every opportunity to get out of it but the idiot still kept saying "yep it's come straight from teh doctor, it's definitely a head injury" like an idiot.

You could tell that Nigel Owens and the assistant were both unhappy about it but they had to go with the information they were given (which was obviously false). They can't take any chances with a head injury so their hands are tied but I think they should make absolutely certain that the player doesn't receive any other sort of treatment while they're off the pitch. They could also review the incident where the HIA was meant to have happened but they are still in a very difficult situation.
 

talkshowhost86

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Oct 2, 2004
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Why do Wales announce their squad so early incidentally?

I think they've been first of the 6 teams both times now.

In the Premiership games it's always announced at 12pm the day before the game, but there doesn't appear to be any standard with the international announcements.
 

E17yid

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Jan 21, 2013
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Why do Wales announce their squad so early incidentally?

I think they've been first of the 6 teams both times now.

In the Premiership games it's always announced at 12pm the day before the game, but there doesn't appear to be any standard with the international announcements.

I was thinking about this and all I could think of was we played Saturday and you played Sunday so you’ll be a day later but not sure, tbh.

There’s a fucking interview with Ken Owens on BBC where he goes into great detail about how we’re going to approach the game. A lot of it is pretty generic but I thought don’t give away the whole game plan ken.
 

talkshowhost86

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Oct 2, 2004
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The England team is in:

England team to face Wales: Brown; Watson, Joseph, Farrell, May; Ford, Care; M Vunipola, Hartley, Cole, Launchbury, Itoje, Lawes, Robshaw, Simmonds.

Replacements: George, Hepburn, Williams, Kruis, Underhill, Wigglesworth, Te'o, Nowell


So JJ is in for Te'o which I suppose makes sense as that experiment wasn't a massive success last week and JJ came on and did well.

Still looks a potentially lightweight England team though, and removing Te'o arguably weakens a defence that already looked a bit wobbly at times against Italy.

That said, it makes our backs even more mobile, and if England can punch the holes that Scotland did in the first half against Wales, I think we've got the composure to make the most of that.

Glad to see Care starting. Whilst I do like his impact off the bench, he absolutely deserves to start, and whilst Wigglesworth won't be making many line breaks if and when he comes on, he's more than capable of getting the ball to our other backs in dangerous positions.

I think the game will be very open, and I think both teams will score a few tries, but hopefully with home advantage England will nick it.
 

talkshowhost86

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Oct 2, 2004
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In other questions...who on earth is going to win Scotland v France?

Really not sure which side to favour when picking my fantasy rugby team.
 

E17yid

Well-Known Member
Jan 21, 2013
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Joseph normally causes us problems and Te’o is a great option off the bench so good call from Jones IMO.

I know Ford is playing well but you have the option to take him off and move Farrel to 10 with Te’o coming on in his preferred 12 position.

Reckon we can get at that front row, though. Especially the scrum. That pack in general though is a very well oiled machine.

England are a bitch as they can play a nitty gritty dirty game and win but they can throw it about and cause any team problems and win that way. Part of the reason why they’re the 2nd best in the world at the moment. Going to be an interesting game.
 
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