Player Watch: Moussa Sissoko

gibbospurs · Feb 8, 2018

Just think how good we could be if we had a decent footballer taking his place in the team, it’s like a bloody handicap at times. Is Poch playing him because he doesn’t want to look a fool for agreeing to spend 30m on him?? It must stop. Would be more beneficial to put a youth player in his place. Don’t get it......

Nebby · Feb 8, 2018

coysjod said:
It's frankly astonishing how a premier league player can look so out of depth against league two opposition. Total lack of ball control and basic technique, starting to believe that we're witnessing something worse than even Zokora...

You could be talking about more than just Sissoko on last night's showing. Llorente and Aurier were terrible.

Tucker · Feb 8, 2018

bomberH said:
He gets abuse on here almost every game because he rarely has a good game. You’ve admitted he’s crap so you obviously agree with this.

I’ve said it a thousand times on here but every single week, the most positive comment I hear about him is ‘he wasn’t the worst player on the pitch’. Whoop-de-fucking-do.

You think he’s crap. You’ve admitted it. Which means you think he generally plays crap. You think it, others type it on here. There is no difference. They typed it on here during the match thread because they thought he didn’t have a good game. Then they mention it on this thread because it’s his thread. Apart from the odd individual comment slating him as a person or not knowing the rules re the Moura comment, I honestly can’t see the issue. As I said, would you want this thread closed?

I am not sure why you keep asking me that. It’s a complete straw man, I’ve not mentioned it once. Why the hell would I?

I can simultaneously think someone’s crap, while at the same time thinking that he gets far too much stick, and far too much of the blame when the team doesn’t live up to expectations. Listening to some on here you’d think we’d be top of the league if only Poch would realise he’d made a mistake in signing him and decided to play with ten men instead.

I’ve no problem with anyone thinking he’s shit, but constantly blaming him for poor team performances is getting very boring, and frankly doesn’t tell the full story. Most of the time when we’ve underperformed it’s because the manager has set the team up in a way that doesn’t suit, or because we’ve had injuries to key players like Eriksen (like against Southampton.)

There was even a thread created to give the guy stick after we’d won in a match he didn’t even play in!

Take last night as an example. We were terrible in the first 10-15 minutes, all the stick was directed at Llorente and Sissoko, when in reality it was our defenders playing slow sideways passes that were inviting interceptions in dangerous areas that was the issue. Neither play had any part in that.

bomberH · Feb 8, 2018

Tucker said:
I am not sure why you keep asking me that. It’s a complete straw man, I’ve not mentioned it once. Why the hell would I?

I can simultaneously think someone’s crap, while at the same time thinking that he gets far too much stick, and far too much of the blame when the team doesn’t live up to expectations. Listening to some on here you’d think we’d be top of the league if only Poch would realise he’d made a mistake in signing him and decided to play with ten men instead.

I’ve no problem with anyone thinking he’s shit, but constantly blaming him for poor team performances is getting very boring, and frankly doesn’t tell the full story. Most of the time when we’ve underperformed it’s because the manager has set the team up in a way that doesn’t suit, or because we’ve had injuries to key players like Eriksen (like against Southampton.)

There was even a thread created to give the guy stick after we’d won in a match he didn’t even play in!

Take last night as an example. We were terrible in the first 10-15 minutes, all the stick was directed at Llorente and Sissoko, when in reality it was our defenders playing slow sideways passes that were inviting interceptions in dangerous areas that was the issue. Neither play had any part in that.

That thread you mention almost proves that this isn’t about scapegoating. As i mentioned earlier, a scapegoat is generally someone who gets dogs abuse when the team has lost even though it wasn’t just their fault. The fact we won that game when Sissoko wasn’t even playing suggests that the OP wanted to make the point how much better/fluid we were without him in the team - and the issues he brings when he’s in the team. The only thing that OP did wrong was start a new thread about it, but he was new so it’s understandable.

For me personally, I don’t blame him for poor team performances. I just say what I see when he’s involved in the play. I see just as many people blaming Poch for playing him as I do people having a go at Sissoko directly, moreso in the last few weeks. Even if you’re correct about the way we set up last night, it doesn’t take away that, in my opinion, he continues to make too many mistakes when he’s involved in the action.

I assume the reason you think he’s crap is because of the usual stuff mentioned in this thread, like his poor control, poor passing, poor end product, poor awareness etc. So then you must understand why people bring it up? He plays like this almost every game so people will mention it every game. People have slated Dele, Trippier, Dembele etc quite a bit this season, because they have been poor at times so their threads get brought back to the top of the page. Sissoko’s thread is constant because, in people’s opinions, he constantly has poor games. That’s all there is to it I think. If Sissoko starts on Saturday and we lose 3-0 and every single player is shit but only Sissoko is being abused on here and no other player’s thread is resurrected, then I’ll accept that as scapegoating. If you believe he gets too much criticism, that’s fair enough, but it’s not scapegoating. Not for me anyway. There will always be fans who do scapegoat but from what I read on this thread, the majority of it is just constructive criticism, sometimes with a dose of extreme frustration added. For every ‘fuck off Sissoko you ****’ post, there’s a good few who are much more constructive.

dontcallme · Feb 8, 2018

There are certain phrases that get thrown around a lot on this site even when they don’t fit.

The 3 most prominent are scapegoating, knee-jerk and agenda.

They are mostly used to shut down other people’s opinions without debating the point.

The Sissoko bashing is not scapegoating. It is boring, repetitive and boring again.

Tucker · Feb 8, 2018

dontcallme said:
There are certain phrases that get thrown around a lot on this site even when they don’t fit.

The 3 most prominent are scapegoating, knee-jerk and agenda.

They are mostly used to shut down other people’s opinions without debating the point.

The Sissoko bashing is not scapegoating. It is boring, repetitive and boring again.

Nah, he’s a scapegoat, and frankly your agenda driven attempts to shut down my disussion about him being a scapegoat, are knee jerk, and....agenda driven....and possibly have everything to do with the media conspiracy against Spurs.

Hush you :sneaky:

dontcallme · Feb 8, 2018

Tucker said:
Nah, he’s a scapegoat, and frankly your agenda driven attempts to shut down my disussion about him being a scapegoat, are knee jerk, and....agenda driven....and possibly have everything to do with the media conspiracy against Spurs.

Hush you

Conspiracy is another good one.

coys200 · Feb 8, 2018

Just so painful knowing if Lamela had started against West Ham and Southampton we’d probably have 4 more points. Thankfully with everyone fit and moura addition he shouldn’t get a look in. He’s now 5 th choice CM and 6th AM.

Tucker · Feb 8, 2018

bomberH said:
That thread you mention almost proves that this isn’t about scapegoating. As i mentioned earlier, a scapegoat is generally someone who gets dogs abuse when the team has lost even though it wasn’t just their fault. The fact we won that game when Sissoko wasn’t even playing suggests that the OP wanted to make the point how much better/fluid we were without him in the team - and the issues he brings when he’s in the team. The only thing that OP did wrong was start a new thread about it, but he was new so it’s understandable.

For me personally, I don’t blame him for poor team performances. I just say what I see when he’s involved in the play. I see just as many people blaming Poch for playing him as I do people having a go at Sissoko directly, moreso in the last few weeks. Even if you’re correct about the way we set up last night, it doesn’t take away that, in my opinion, he continues to make too many mistakes when he’s involved in the action.

I assume the reason you think he’s crap is because of the usual stuff mentioned in this thread, like his poor control, poor passing, poor end product, poor awareness etc. So then you must understand why people bring it up? He plays like this almost every game so people will mention it every game. People have slated Dele, Trippier, Dembele etc quite a bit this season, because they have been poor at times so their threads get brought back to the top of the page. Sissoko’s thread is constant because, in people’s opinions, he constantly has poor games. That’s all there is to it I think. If Sissoko starts on Saturday and we lose 3-0 and every single player is shit but only Sissoko is being abused on here and no other player’s thread is resurrected, then I’ll accept that as scapegoating. If you believe he gets too much criticism, that’s fair enough, but it’s not scapegoating. Not for me anyway. There will always be fans who do scapegoat but from what I read on this thread, the majority of it is just constructive criticism, sometimes with a dose of extreme frustration added. For every ‘fuck off Sissoko you ****’ post, there’s a good few who are much more constructive.

We are clearly not going to agree on this. But in a couple of seasons, when Sissoko is gone, I guarantee there will be another player in the squad who gets more abuse than any other. It’s the Spurs way.

dontcallme · Feb 8, 2018

coys200 said:
Just so painfu knowing if Lamela had started against West Ham and Southampton we’d probably have 4 more points. Thankfully with everyone fit and moura addition he shouldn’t get a look in. He’s now 5 th choice CM and 6th AM.

How do you think we would have lined up?

Sissoko played deeper so can’t see how lamela or Moura takes his place.

Shadydan · Feb 8, 2018

Tucker said:
We are clearly not going to agree on this. But in a couple of seasons, when Sissoko is gone, I guarantee there will be another player in the squad who gets more abuse than any other. It’s the Spurs way.

Yup, always a scapegoat.

thebenjamin · Feb 8, 2018

Tucker said:
We are clearly not going to agree on this. But in a couple of seasons, when Sissoko is gone, I guarantee there will be another player in the squad who gets more abuse than any other. It’s the Spurs way.

You mean some players in our squad will be our best players, and some will be our worst. And when people discuss Tottenham's performances, the best players will receive the most praise while the worst will receive the most criticism..?

Kind of like every set of fans discussing the merits of every set of players, ever.

Eric_s · Feb 8, 2018

thebenjamin said:
You mean some players in our squad will be our best players, and some will be our worst. And when people discuss Tottenham's performances, the best players will receive the most praise while the worst will receive the most criticism..?

Kind of like every set of fans discussing the merits of every set of players, ever.

The fact that Dawson, Mason have been fans favourite while Lamela, Vertonghen and Rose were all once been bashed frequently, demonstrate that praise or bashing of players are not always related to football abilities of the players.

E17yid · Feb 8, 2018

Eric_s said:
The fact that Dawson, Mason have been fans favourite while Lamela, Vertonghen and Rose were all once been bashed frequently, demonstrate that praise or bashing of players are not always related to football abilities of the players.

Mason, Dawson and Townsend got done constantly on here (Townsend still does) so I don’t know where you’re getting fan favourites from although I personally loved All 3 as they were proper Spurs boys (I know Daws wasn’t technically but he was with us for a decade and was great for us on the whole)

Lamela only gets slated by a handful of posters (at best) and has generally received a lot of patience but that’s just the way I see it.

bomberH · Feb 8, 2018

Eric_s said:
The fact that Dawson, Mason have been fans favourite while Lamela, Vertonghen and Rose were all once been bashed frequently, demonstrate that praise or bashing of players are not always related to football abilities of the players.

So what are you saying? If it’s not for ability reasons, then why are they being bashed? Not that I agree with the post but I’m interested to see what you’re getting at.

thebenjamin · Feb 8, 2018

Eric_s said:
The fact that Dawson, Mason have been fans favourite while Lamela, Vertonghen and Rose were all once been bashed frequently, demonstrate that praise or bashing of players are not always related to football abilities of the players.

Do you think people would still criticise Sissoko if he had 10 goals and 10 assists so far this season?

NinjaTuna · Feb 8, 2018

Quite a few of our players were making misplaced passes last night, especially in the first 20mins. Sissoko and Llorente were the only two receiving particularly audible groans whenever they did. I agree, they haven't been that impressive this season, however the way the fans get on their backs during matches is quite frankly embarrassing, as a fellow spurs fans, to listen to

Nebby · Feb 8, 2018

thebenjamin said:
Do you think people would still criticise Sissoko if he had 10 goals and 10 assists so far this season?

The problem here is that none of us know what role Sissoko is being asked to perform. I don't get the feeling that Poch is overly forgiving, so his continued selection suggests that he's doing what he's asked to do.

What's clearly noticeable, certainly when he plays on the right of midfield, is that he plays deeper than his opposite number (e.g. Son). If you look at his heat maps, he'll have most of his touches around the half-way line, whereas Son's involvement will be higher up the pitch around the penalty box. That seems perfectly understandable given Son's dribbling ability and goal threat. Maybe Poch instructs Sissoko to sit deeper, so we are more compact when possession is lost?

E17yid · Feb 8, 2018

Games like yesterday are exactly the games he should be involved in. As long as he plays against the Newport’s and Rochdale’s I’ll have no problems. Then get rid in the summer, if we can.

What will be interesting between now and the end of season now that we have a fully fit squad is who misses out on a bench spot, especially if we play 3 at the back as you can’t have Son, Lamela, Moura and Sissoko on the bench. Even with 4-2-3-1 someone’s not making the match day squad. Would hate to see Sissoko on the bench and not Lamela but don’t think Poch will.

Mullers · Feb 8, 2018

thebenjamin said:
Do you think people would still criticise Sissoko if he had 10 goals and 10 assists so far this season?

Yes.
Alli has 9 goals and 10 assists and he get criticised to the extent that some people say he should be sold to Madrid.

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