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What the pundits & media are saying about us

ralvy

AVB my love
Jun 26, 2012
2,505
4,603
Actually I just saw a report which says the 4th official didn't give any decision but the ref gave it anyway. In which case the ref was wrong to 'guess' that Lovren touched the ball but got 'lucky' in that it was the correct decision. He probably shouldn't make that decision given he wasn't sure as you say. If he didn't give the penalty we would have continued to dominate and likely to go on and win the game. The decision probably cost us in the end. We were robbed!

Why is he wrong for guessing? Whatever decision he could have ended up giving, it would have been a guess one way or another. So why is giving the pen, which was his original call, worse than not giving it if the ref just doesn't know for sure either way? He had to make a call.
 

worcestersauce

"I'm no optimist I'm just a prisoner of hope
Jan 23, 2006
26,895
45,043
.
Actually I just saw a report which says the 4th official didn't give any decision but the ref gave it anyway. In which case the ref was wrong to 'guess' that Lovren touched the ball but got 'lucky' in that it was the correct decision. He probably shouldn't make that decision given he wasn't sure as you say. If he didn't give the penalty we would have continued to dominate and likely to go on and win the game. The decision probably cost us in the end. We were robbed!
He didn't give the decision anyway though, he had already given the decision and the only reason to change it was if the linesman confirmed it was offside which he didn't and couldn't do in which case he could not change his decision.
He didn't guess at anything he played it by the book.
Personally I think our own Christian Eriksen played a blinder when he told them Lovren did touch it and when Can said he didn't, laughed at him, it was clear he was telling the truth and Can was lying.
I look at it from the other direction, what if Moss had changed his mind and given offside, all the talk would be about a miscarriage of justice and that Lovren deliberately kicked the ball so it wasn't offside and we were robbed of a penalty and the win.
 

VegasII

Well-Known Member
May 14, 2008
9,750
16,670
Pundits...

upload_2018-2-6_19-21-54.jpeg
 

mil1lion

This is the place to be
May 7, 2004
42,344
77,598
Why is he wrong for guessing? Whatever decision he could have ended up giving, it would have been a guess one way or another. So why is giving the pen, which was his original call, worse than not giving it if the ref just doesn't know for sure either way? He had to make a call.
Because he didn't see the touch by Lovren and didn't know the player was offside when he gave the penalty. The linesman said he was onside only if Lovren touches the ball. The ref admitted he didn't know if Lovren touched it but stuck with the decision. So yes he is wrong for guessing. In reality if he doesn't know if Lovren touched the ball he can't give the decision. His initial decision to give a penalty wasn't a guess because he didn't know the player was offside until he spoke to the lineman.
 

Spurs 1961

Well-Known Member
Aug 31, 2012
6,665
8,739
I think you are right, in the sense that refs should totally be encouraged to assess the decision with a linesman, etc... the criticism Moss is getting (from non Liverpool fans) is his asking for "anything on the TV", which i a bizarre question to ask as VAR or any other tech is not permissible as of yet.

And my personal criticism was more related to the fact that he suggests in the conversation to not know for sure that it hit Lovren and if it hasn't, then said consulted linesman said "then its offside." As I said, would have had (begrudgingly) more respect if he said, don't know and the lino said, then we can't award the Pen and Moss says, true, overturned.

Sure I hear what you are saying but suspect he had a gut instinct that thee had been a touch and without the benefit of replays ... like we had ... had to decide whether to back his instinct. I don't think being overruled by the assistant was a problem to hi since that is what happened later.

I agree that rules say they can't use video but that is one of the things I think is so annoying at Premier League games which are all televised. Going forward it would make sense to use all eyes including the technology that is readily available.

However this situation remains unclear but at least the right result was achieved. For me that is way better than being at Wembley, watching clear fouls unpunished and a blatant penalty not given. That to me is poor officiating
 

ralvy

AVB my love
Jun 26, 2012
2,505
4,603
Because he didn't see the touch by Lovren and didn't know the player was offside when he gave the penalty. The linesman said he was onside only if Lovren touches the ball. The ref admitted he didn't know if Lovren touched it but stuck with the decision. So yes he is wrong for guessing. In reality if he doesn't know if Lovren touched the ball he can't give the decision. His initial decision to give a penalty wasn't a guess because he didn't know the player was offside until he spoke to the lineman.

What you're saying would be correct had the linesman not made the original call of not waving the flag. Non of them knew for sure whether Lovren played the ball or not, hence they had no choice but to go with their original call. The real mistake would have been overturning their original calls with no real evidence to back it up.
 

Jody

SC Supporter
Sep 11, 2004
7,005
5,825
Funny how people have complained / discussed so much about a pen that didn't end up in a goal. I'd understand if he'd put it away and it made a difference to the outcome.
 

isaac94

Well-Known Member
Jan 5, 2017
2,921
9,733
Paul Merson said: "Spurs' defenders won't have seen a lot of Aubameyang, they won't know his movements." Spurs have faced Aubameyang four times in the last two years, in which time the striker has scored four goals against them. Even by Merson's standards, that comment is pathetic.
 

ryantegan

Block 33 Season Ticket holder :)
Jun 28, 2009
6,014
17,841
The conversation in full:

Smart
: ‘All I need to know is, did Lovren touch the ball?’
Moss: ‘I don’t know.’
Smart: ‘If he’s not touched the ball, it is offside, so you’re chalking off the penalty. It has to be offside if Lovren has not touched the ball.’
Christian Eriksen: ‘He did touch the ball.’
Emre Can: ‘He didn’t touch the ball.’
Moss: ‘Just talk to me again.’
Smart: ‘You know what I’m asking; I need to clarify, has Lovren touched the ball? If he has, it’s a deliberate action and, therefore, it’s a penalty. If he has not, it is offside.’
Moss: ‘I have no idea whether Lovren touched the ball to be honest with you. Martin, have you got anything from TV? I’m giving the penalty.’

That last line in italics just makes me cringe. Replays suggest the ball did come off a Liverpool player, but to not be sure and still award the penalty??? To me, I would have been annoyed if he hadn't have given it, BUT based on that conversation, I think it's dangerous from a netral perspective to argue the Ref made the informed decision!

The italic part, despite denials from the referees association, suggests to me that Martin in the earpiece said "yes, Lovren touched the ball"
 

Basil Brush

Well-Known Member
Aug 20, 2013
1,691
3,080
Paul Merson said: "Spurs' defenders won't have seen a lot of Aubameyang, they won't know his movements." Spurs have faced Aubameyang four times in the last two years, in which time the striker has scored four goals against them. Even by Merson's standards, that comment is pathetic.
Merson is an idiot, and that is offensive to idiots.
 

Gb160

Well done boys. Good process
Jun 20, 2012
23,646
93,315
The italic part, despite denials from the referees association, suggests to me that Martin in the earpiece said "yes, Lovren touched the ball"
Exactly, there's a pause when he asks the 4th official, Before he says he's giving the pen...I'm pretty sure it was at this point the Lino done his fist pump thing.
 

dricha1

Well-Known Member
Jul 26, 2005
1,311
2,579
Can’t be believe we’re still banging on about this. Both decisions were correct, in fact the first penalty should have been retaken for encroachment.

I doubt there would have been all this fury if it was Southampton v Stoke, but cos Liverpool are involved......

I work in Liverpool and pretty much every Liverpool fan has avoided me until today when one said “you’ve been keeping a low profile this week!”....the cheek!....as if I should be embarrassed!

I think all this over reaction is what Poch was trying to get at in his press conference earlier in the week..
 

Rocksuperstar

Isn't this fun? Isn't fun the best thing to have?
Jun 6, 2005
53,290
66,758
EA Premier League team of the month includes both Vertonghen and Eriksen

https://potm.easports.com/

Jan has been a class act these last few games, and while Eriksen has been on top form too, I couldn't take it away from Jan. Against United he was a monster, absolutely bossed them.
 

Danny1

Well-Known Member
Dec 6, 2006
5,622
17,172
So Garth Crooks weird all of a sudden dislike of us continues in his Team of the Week comments.

1 - He says Vertonghen was great but then ends his discussion on Verts by saying that Arsenal had enough chances to get a draw and blew it......what about the 8 chances we had......? Strange comment!
2 - He says Kane is great, but he deserves trophies and unless we win them he should leave.......

Think its time this moronic individual was taken off air. He was no doubt a good player, but as a pundit he has always been a strange guy who comes out with such utter tripe (not just about Spurs).
 

SugarRay

Well-Known Member
Jul 6, 2011
7,984
11,110
So Garth Crooks weird all of a sudden dislike of us continues in his Team of the Week comments.

1 - He says Vertonghen was great but then ends his discussion on Verts by saying that Arsenal had enough chances to get a draw and blew it......what about the 8 chances we had......? Strange comment!
2 - He says Kane is great, but he deserves trophies and unless we win them he should leave.......

Think its time this moronic individual was taken off air. He was no doubt a good player, but as a pundit he has always been a strange guy who comes out with such utter tripe (not just about Spurs).

I think he compared Raheem Sterling to Eusebio the other week. He’s on the gear 100%

Anytime he speaks about Kane he ends up saying he needs to leave. Some serious bitterness there for some reason
 

ExpatFan

Well-Known Member
May 11, 2005
1,873
1,664
So Garth Crooks weird all of a sudden dislike of us continues in his Team of the Week comments.

1 - He says Vertonghen was great but then ends his discussion on Verts by saying that Arsenal had enough chances to get a draw and blew it......what about the 8 chances we had......? Strange comment!
2 - He says Kane is great, but he deserves trophies and unless we win them he should leave.......

Think its time this moronic individual was taken off air. He was no doubt a good player, but as a pundit he has always been a strange guy who comes out with such utter tripe (not just about Spurs).
Yes, noticed that myself this morning. Used his so-called "Team of the Week" column to keep pushing the media-driven agenda about Kane "having to leave to win things".... even threw ManUre into the mix. No mention of any Liverpool players having to do the same, of course.
 

Danny1

Well-Known Member
Dec 6, 2006
5,622
17,172
I think he compared Raheem Sterling to Eusebio the other week. He’s on the gear 100%

Anytime he speaks about Kane he ends up saying he needs to leave. Some serious bitterness there for some reason

Ha I had forgotten about that. Eusebio, one of footballs greats ever and Raheem Sterling, scores a few goals and runs into people a lot.
 

Insomnia

Twisted Firestarter
Jan 18, 2006
20,199
55,544
Can you wank puffins talking about them deluded scouse fuckwits & the penalties fuck off somewhere else, maybe talk about it in the picture thread
 

rossdapep

Well-Known Member
Aug 25, 2011
21,907
78,649
I think he compared Raheem Sterling to Eusebio the other week. He’s on the gear 100%

Anytime he speaks about Kane he ends up saying he needs to leave. Some serious bitterness there for some reason
Was he invited to The Lane Farewell party? I don't recall him being there? Perhaps it's something to do with that. Or perhaps he just gets weirder and weirder.

I'll let Garth decide.......

https://twitter.com/JJHughes_/status/960493253127737344
 
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