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The stadium myth..

Sevens

Well-Known Member
Apr 23, 2014
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You might have a point, but is there really anything to excuse after all? We ended as 3rd with major competition from our best rivals, with moderate budget in maybe this worlds best or second best league. And after all we did play our home games away.

I can't help but think by saying we had 38 away games this year our Manager is already lining up an excuse in case we struggle at the new stadium next season. Next season is going to feel as alien to the players as Wembley did this year. If anything, it will feel more alien as at least we played a couple of CL games at Wembley before we moved there for a season.

If those saying that Wembley cost us points this year are right then what we are really saying is that our players do have a fragile mentality and struggle to adapt to change. And the move to a new stadium may prove to be just as costly.
 

Sevens

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Apr 23, 2014
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And, that is why playing at Wembley, was more than simply turning up and playing a match. Even playing there all season - it was never home. It was always the same as staying in a hotel. It was nice accommodations - but you always knew it was not yours to settle into and make your own.

More like a thrill. It's like living in a terraced house and then being allowed to live in a mansion for a year. If anything I'd say Wembley home games would have lifted our players.
 

Shadydan

Well-Known Member
Jul 7, 2012
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I think you're missing the point of statistical analysis. What the analysis shoes is that the 2016/17 season was not normal. Even if we had played at WHL this season it is highly unlikely we'd have got anywhere near those stats again.

So ultimately we don't know if Wembley had a positive or negative effect. What I do know is that it's a weak mentality to blame Wembley. If Wembley was such a disadvantage to us then by equal measures it should have been a big advantage for us in the FA Cup semi final.

The whole Wembley thing came from our poor CL showing last year. But that wasn't down to the pitch. That was down to horrific Pochettino tactics at the time. Then the media did their best to make out we had some kind of psychological complex about Wembley which was complete BS.

No I understand the point but I'm saying it's flawed, just because there may have been an anomaly last season doesn't make it any less relevant. Our form from 2 seasons ago going back to whenever isn't in any way mutually exclusive of this season because there's way too many factors at play, even a I said our away form at the start compared to our home form differs massively, how do you explain that?

This is naturally how people compare, you go by the most recent example like last year or last term because it's the most relevant, not just in football but in any walk of life.
 

Shadydan

Well-Known Member
Jul 7, 2012
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More like a thrill. It's like living in a terraced house and then being allowed to live in a mansion for a year. If anything I'd say Wembley home games would have lifted our players.

Would have lifted the opposition too then in that case.
 

Sevens

Well-Known Member
Apr 23, 2014
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No I understand the point but I'm saying it's flawed, just because there may have been an anomaly last season doesn't make it any less relevant. Our form from 2 seasons ago going back to whenever isn't in any way mutually exclusive of this season because there's way too many factors at play, even a I said our away form at the start compared to our home form differs massively, how do you explain that?

This is naturally how people compare, you go by the most recent example like last year or last term because it's the most relevant, not just in football but in any walk of life.

My point is, we don't know. What I do know is that when I was at Wembley this season and saw us struggle against Burnley, Swansea, Palace etc. that it was nothing to do with Wembley. It was our tactics and slow tempo.
 

alexis

Well-Known Member
Sep 1, 2012
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E-lab-o-rate please.

Yes, other teams improved but essentially we went from having the 5th best away form to the 2nd this season so I think it's pretty clear we suffered as a result of playing away from WHL.
Well that was better now you el Abo rated.
 

alexis

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Sep 1, 2012
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We took two points from our first nine at home, we didn't win until our fourth home game, that was because we were playing at Wembley and that was where we lost second place, after that we settled and started winning and that is testament to how good we are.
Perrenial poor starters been a problem beyond wembley
 

alexis

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Sep 1, 2012
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Which totally contradicts your theory so...
Not really it’s as if you were making wembley out to being the only contributing factor. My point is it isn’t as others with far more patience than me have pointed out as well as helping you to understand statistical analysis
 

worcestersauce

"I'm no optimist I'm just a prisoner of hope
Jan 23, 2006
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And what about the 16/17
I'm not convinced. Under Poch we've often start the season off unconvincingly regardless of how the results are going. We seem to hit our form between just before Xmas to April.

Take the 15/16 season. We drew three of our first five home games, including Stoke and Everton. In 14/15 we lost three of our first five home games, including WBA and Newcastle.

I don't think there is enough data either way to confirm either way what effect, if any, Wembley had on us.
And what about the 16/17 season.
 

alexis

Well-Known Member
Sep 1, 2012
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You might have a point, but is there really anything to excuse after all? We ended as 3rd with major competition from our best rivals, with moderate budget in maybe this worlds best or second best league. And after all we did play our home games away.
Although we may have got 2nd as it was there for the taking. Don’t think Man U ness played that much better than the top 3 others just nicked the points when it mattered
 

Shadydan

Well-Known Member
Jul 7, 2012
38,247
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Not really it’s as if you were making wembley out to being the only contributing factor. My point is it isn’t as others with far more patience than me have pointed out as well as helping you to understand statistical analysis

I'm not and I'm saying that the statistical analysis is flawed as I've already explained.

You said yourself
I don’t really get the 38 away games bit. Don’t get why it’s so difficult for a group of professionals to play on a different piece of grass for one season. For opposing teams I’m sure it also became just another ground. Bit weak this wembley pat on the back/excuse of ours

^ The fact that you've put it down to playing on a different piece of grass (lol) and only taking that into account tells me more a lot about your argument.
 

Sevens

Well-Known Member
Apr 23, 2014
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And what about the 16/17
And what about the 16/17 season.

Already dealt with elsewhere in the thread. Result wise we were magnificent at home that season but recent history suggests it is more likely to be an outlier than a realistic representation of our standard state.
 

alexis

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Sep 1, 2012
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I'm not and I'm saying that the statistical analysis is flawed as I've already explained.

You said yourself

^ The fact that you've put it down to playing on a different piece of grass (lol) and only taking that into account tells me more a lot about your argument.
No I was saying I didn’t understand the amount of people rolling out this out as an excuse. Piece of grass was my way of belittling it as professionals should be that and be able to play to a standard wherever.
 

Shadydan

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Jul 7, 2012
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No I was saying I didn’t understand the amount of people rolling out this out as an excuse. Piece of grass was my way of belittling it as professionals should be that and be able to play to a standard wherever.

It's an excuse if you want to look at it that way, it's more of a reason as to why we initially struggled at the stadium.

Facts are there if you want to believe it, it's up to you...
 

alexis

Well-Known Member
Sep 1, 2012
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I'm not and I'm saying that the statistical analysis is flawed as I've already explained.

You said yourself

^ The fact that you've put it down to playing on a different piece of grass (lol) and only taking that into account tells me more a lot about your argument.
I think this sums up how I feel about it - So ultimately we don't know if Wembley had a positive or negative effect. What I do know is that it's a weak mentality to blame Wembley. If Wembley was such a disadvantage to us then by equal measures it should have been a big advantage for us in the FA Cup semi final.
 

Shadydan

Well-Known Member
Jul 7, 2012
38,247
104,143
I think this sums up how I feel about it - So ultimately we don't know if Wembley had a positive or negative effect. What I do know is that it's a weak mentality to blame Wembley. If Wembley was such a disadvantage to us then by equal measures it should have been a big advantage for us in the FA Cup semi final.

Maybe it was an advantage for us or maybe we just got beaten by a better side on the day...
 

worcestersauce

"I'm no optimist I'm just a prisoner of hope
Jan 23, 2006
26,894
45,042
My point is, we don't know. What I do know is that when I was at Wembley this season and saw us struggle against Burnley, Swansea, Palace etc. that it was nothing to do with Wembley. It was our tactics and slow tempo.
Nonsense, I saw the games against Burnley and Swansea and they were our second and third home games of the season and I know that it was to do with Wembley, we battered them but were missing that extra few percent to get us the winner, against Palace we weren't at our best but we won because we had found our feet, however I still wonder if we'd have won more easily at White Hart Lane.
Already dealt with elsewhere in the thread. Result wise we were magnificent at home that season but recent history suggests it is more likely to be an outlier than a realistic representation of our standard state.
I don't accept that at all and there is no evidence to suggest it, there is just as much evidence that this team under Pochottino reached a level that reflected it's potential last season and that would have been matched this season had we been playing at White Hart Lane, if that wasn't the conclusion elsewhere in this thread then it wasn't dealt with at all.

Some people think this is all an excuse, it isn't it is an explanation that does excuse to some extent but anybody that thinks home advantage isn't a real thing because its still just a patch of grass really ought to explain why year in year out since football began teams do better at home than away, Wembley made a difference, that difference reduced as the season went on but having dropped seven points from nine in the first three games the die was cast. There will also be a bedding in period at our new stadium so be prepared for that but it won't be anything like as damaging as playing at wembley, the pitch dimensions will be familiar to us and other clubs won't be playing at the national stadium so it will just be finding our feet.
 
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