ENIC...

Metalhead · Apr 8, 2021

HodisGawd said:
That is the point Enic-outters fail to grasp. Or deliberately ignore.

We are a club that is building for sustainable success. What they have done is nothing short of amazing.

It is - I do understand that people get frustrated and although there are people that seem to have an almost pathological hatred of Daniel Levy and ENIC, there are plenty who acknowledge what they've done but point out errors that have been made and that's fine - excuses don't need to be made for the cock ups. It's just that overall, the vision that ENIC and more specifically Daniel Levy has had is absolutely amazing.

Shadydan · Apr 8, 2021

beats1 said:
I think there are so many deluded people when people say ENIC OUT

We should sell the club? WHO TO?

How many big takeovers have there been in the Premier League? or Even Europe's Elite clubs?
Man Utd - Brought by the Glazers, mortgaged the club with high interest rates, they invested no money, and used their high revenue to cover interest payments and outspend the league!
Chelsea - Brought By Abramovich over 17 years ago. Actually RICH, but brought the club for £140m
Liverpool - Brought by Americans, sold to Americans who run their club the same way as us and United, spending what they make
Man City - Brought by Abu Dhabi Group for £240m, Actually spend money
Arsenal - Brought by Stan Kroenke - Doesn't spend shit
Tottenham - Brought by ENIC, run like Kroenke, Liverpool & United
PSG - Brought by Qatari's when it was valued at $100m, Spent a billion
Monaco - Brought by Russian Billionaire for €1 but promised to invest €100m before getting divorced
Inter - Brought by Chinese off another Chinese firm for €270m

Now in the last 20 years we are talking about 3 rich owners coming in and spending a billion on clubs that were struggling financially

The rest are arguably worse than ENIC, the advantage the us owned clubs have, is they are all historic clubs who have a higher revenue and all have better connections to the commercial world since their owners come in.

We are a top 6 team and whoever comes in would have to pay a billion to get us and no one is doing that. US billionaires rather spend that on an American sports team that is a franchise, so won't get relegated and wages are heavily regulated and can't make signings (therefore won't need investment)

Buying Tottenham is a risk, 4 years of poor performance means you could lose a large portion of your investment

This is as good as it gets in terms of owners, our only hope is a rich Investment group comes in and pays off our stadium debt and increase our commercial standing and frankly that would require ENIC to take a small fee for the club(less than half a billion), which isn't going to happen imo

Good post this, no-one's rebutted it funnily enough...

JUSTINSIGNAL · Apr 8, 2021

HodisGawd said:
That is the point Enic-outters fail to grasp. Or deliberately ignore.

We are a club that is building for sustainable success. What they have done is nothing short of amazing.

Agree.

It's mostly because supporters are only interested in short term success. They want club to sell deadwood cheap and sign superstars for wahtever the selling club demand. They simply don't care about (or in many cases understand) how football finances work. If we're not signing every player they have on their FIFA career mode then there is obviously some conspiracy by the club to not spend money and make us fail.

Levy is always going to think long term. Players and managers come and go but the club will always remain. It's his job to improve the infrastructure to keep us competing at a high level throughout his tenure and beyond.

I understand the frustration from fans as we all want out team to be the best and have the best players, but what I don't get is the insistence on ignoring basic facts and logic in favour of baseless conspiracies because ultimately you're just pissed off that we're not owned by an oligarch or middle eastern regime who want to chuck money at the club.

RichieS · Apr 8, 2021

JUSTINSIGNAL said:
Agree.

It's mostly because supporters are only interested in short term success. They want club to sell deadwood cheap and sign superstars for wahtever the selling club demand. They simply don't care about (or in many cases understand) how football finances work. If we're not signing every player they have on their FIFA career mode then there is obviously some conspiracy by the club to not spend money and make us fail.

Levy is always going to think long term. Players and managers come and go but the club will always remain. It's his job to improve the infrastructure to keep us competing at a high level throughout his tenure and beyond.

I understand the frustration from fans as we all want out team to be the best and have the best players, but what I don't get is the insistence on ignoring basic facts and logic in favour of baseless conspiracies because ultimately you're just pissed off that we're not owned by an oligarch or middle eastern regime who want to chuck money at the club.

"But Liverpool...".

Stamford · Apr 8, 2021

JUSTINSIGNAL said:
It's mostly because supporters are only interested in short term success. They want club to sell deadwood cheap and sign superstars for wahtever the selling club demand.

I really disagree with this. I actually find people to be very realistic on this, no one on here is expecting Haaland or Mbappe or even Dybala when it was mooted. We expect/want the Ndombele's and players in that bracket that could become top draw. Also on the subject of selling deadwood cheap - Levy has done a shocking job of selling players recently. The club have handled the situations with Vertonghen/Eriksen really poorly and let players run down their contracts. With slightly better recruitment we would comfortably be in the top four imo.

DiVaio · Apr 8, 2021

Stamford said:
Also on the subject of selling deadwood cheap - Levy has done a shocking job of selling players recently. The club have handled the situations with Vertonghen/Eriksen really poorly and let players run down their contracts.

You can't sell players if they don't want to leave

dontcallme · Apr 8, 2021

DiVaio said:
You can't sell players if they don't want to leave

This is what I find strange about the Levy refuses to sell argument.

When our wage bill was considerably lower we used to sell our squad players to the likes of Portsmouth, Sunderland, West Ham etc with no problem at all.

Then we increased our wage bill so the likes of Rose, Winks etc are on considerably higher salaries than the clubs who would be interested in them usually pay.

Eriksen has been well enough documented that we know he wanted to go to a bigger club but none came in for him after his form went downhill.

But out of this a bizarre narrative got created that we don't sell these players because of the transfer fee.

SecretLemonadeDrinker · Apr 8, 2021

Stamford said:
I really disagree with this. I actually find people to be very realistic on this, no one on here is expecting Haaland or Mbappe or even Dybala when it was mooted. We expect/want the Ndombele's and players in that bracket that could become top draw. Also on the subject of selling deadwood cheap - Levy has done a shocking job of selling players recently. The club have handled the situations with Vertonghen/Eriksen really poorly and let players run down their contracts. With slightly better recruitment we would comfortably be in the top four imo.

I don't disagree that Levy has mismanaged player sales of late. But I don't agree with the examples given.

Though clearly on the wane, Jan had a part to play at Spurs until the day that he left. That he left on a free was fine by me. Reward for loyal service and for giving the best years of his career to our cause.

As to Eriksen, Levy was damned if he did, damned if he didn't. Sell with more than two years remaining on Christian's contract and the fans would have been spitting blood. Keep him in the hope that he will eventually sign and risk losing him for a fraction of his former worth.

As it is, all parties have been losers - Eriksen probably the biggest of them.

yankspurs · Apr 8, 2021

Ugh to break up this disgustingly absurd ENIC love session going on in here, they have got to go. If we are going to move forward as a club, they need to leave. That is the bottom line. They’ve proven to be averse to investment. We’ve had chance after chance after chance after chance to finally take that next step and all that was needed was a little bit of investment. They failed to do it. They either decided to play games with our main targets and buy cheap or didnt buy at all. Now they’ve got us into a massive pickle with Jose’s contract which is bound to set us back another few years thanks to our continuously rising debt and very little income coming in.

We are to be self sustainable but sometimes, investment in self sustainable companies is needed to keep it going when times are tough and expenditures massively outweigh income. In the transfer window, we find ourselves desperately needing a splash or 2 to bring some life, excitement & hope back into the club which Jose has oh so obviously ripped out of it. Only we cant because the club desprately needs to take whatever profit we can from the window to pay down debt to the banks and England since ownership certainly wont help us out. We need to improve. If you dont improve you’re moving backward. There is no staying stagnant in the Premier League. To stay stagnant in the table, you still need to inprove on the year before. We’re moving backward at the moment. We have been the last few years and with finances the way they are thanks to Covid and an owner that doesnt care enough to help, it probably wont get much better any time soon. We need new owners.

funkycoldmedina · Apr 8, 2021

dontcallme said:
This is what I find strange about the Levy refuses to sell argument.

When our wage bill was considerably lower we used to sell our squad players to the likes of Portsmouth, Sunderland, West Ham etc with no problem at all.

Then we increased our wage bill so the likes of Rose, Winks etc are on considerably higher salaries than the clubs who would be interested in them usually pay.

Eriksen has been well enough documented that we know he wanted to go to a bigger club but none came in for him after his form went downhill.

But out of this a bizarre narrative got created that we don't sell these players because of the transfer fee.

It was the same with Jansenn. He was a perfect fit for a club like Celtic and when I said this to a Celtic supporting mate he said he's on over £35K a week he's way out of a club like Celtic's wages budget. We've been a victim of our financial success.

dontcallme · Apr 8, 2021

funkycoldmedina said:
It was the same with Jansenn. He was a perfect fit for a club like Celtic and when I said this to a Celtic supporting mate he said he's on over £35K a week he's way out of a club like Celtic's wages budget. We've been a victim of our financial success.

Why do people think Arsenal have been stuck so many times with underperforming players or losing them on a free? It's because they're underperforming players on high salaries.

It's not because their board wants too much money for them.

HodisGawd · Apr 8, 2021

We saw in full, hilarious, technicolor on the Amazon doc how moving on players isn't easy and isn't always within the club's power while a contract is valid. "Anything from Milan?" err, no Danny.

Trix · Apr 8, 2021

To be fair Levy has always said the stadium would be the game changer. It's not his fault after years of planning and building a global pandemic hits making it currently useless.

Stamford · Apr 8, 2021

SecretLemonadeDrinker said:
I don't disagree that Levy has mismanaged player sales of late. But I don't agree with the examples given.

Though clearly on the wane, Jan had a part to play at Spurs until the day that he left. That he left on a free was fine by me. Reward for loyal service and for giving the best years of his career to our cause.

As to Eriksen, Levy was damned if he did, damned if he didn't. Sell with more than two years remaining on Christian's contract and the fans would have been spitting blood. Keep him in the hope that he will eventually sign and risk losing him for a fraction of his former worth.

As it is, all parties have been losers - Eriksen probably the biggest of them.

Yep maybe I used bad examples. Yes we would have been angry about losing Eriksen but if we had reinvested that money wisely we would have quickly gotten over it. The main point I was making though in response to the original post was that there is a demand for superstars which there definitely isnt.

Marty · Apr 8, 2021

Trix said:
To be fair Levy has always said the stadium would be the game changer. It's not his fault after years of planning and building a global pandemic hits making it currently useless.

And it's not his fault that his job to take us back to the top table was made so much harder by Roman and the Sheiks (great band name) and the influx of stupid money into the game.

SecretLemonadeDrinker · Apr 8, 2021

yankspurs said:
Ugh to break up this disgustingly absurd jack off session to ENIC going on in here, they have got to go. If we are going to move forward as a club, they need to leave. That is the bottom line. They’ve proven to be averse to investment. We’ve had chance after chance after chance after chance to finally take that next step and all that was needed was a little bit of investment. They failed to do it. They either decided to play games with our main targets and buy cheap or didnt buy at all. Now they’ve got us into a massive pickle with Jose’s contract which is bound to set us back another few years thanks to our continuously rising debt and very little income coming in.

We are to be self sustainable but sometimes, investment in self sustainable companies is needed to keep it going when times are tough and expenditures massively outweigh income. In the transfer window, we find ourselves desperately needing a splash or 2 to bring some life, excitement & hope back into the club which Jose has oh so obviously ripped out of it. Only we cant because the club desprately needs to take whatever profit we can from the window to pay down debt to the banks and England since ownership certainly wont help us out. We need to improve. If you dont improve you’re moving backward. There is no staying stagnant in the Premier League. To stay stagnant in the table, you still need to inprove on the year before. We’re moving backward at the moment. We have been the last few years and with finances the way they are thanks to Covid and an owner that doesnt care enough to help, it probably wont get much better any time soon. We need new owners.

And breathe.......

Our financial plight isn't nearly as dire as you imagine it to be. Yes, we have the stadium debt. But it is comparatively easily manageable. Yes, we have a £175m loan from the Bank of England. But it is at a ridiculously low rate of 0.5% per annum. And, should we need to pay it back this summer, we have a cash balance in excess of £200m.

Will we have to be creative in the transfer market during the coming summer window? Almost certainly. But we are no different in that respect to all but two or three clubs in all of Europe. And we managed reasonably well - better than most - in near identical circumstances last summer.

That we have failed in many respects this season can, to a significant extent, be blamed on the manager (and a cabal of players who clearly dislike the manager). If, as seems likely, we bring in a new manager for next season, there is every chance that we could improve significantly.

carpediem991 · Apr 8, 2021

We should feel very lucky to have someone like Levy and Enic who would never put the financial stability of the club at risk or toying around carelessly with it. Surely some decisions in terms of coaches and transfers have been questionable and frustrating but overall we could be off far worse. Look at West Ham, Newcastle, Sunderland or others.

RichieS · Apr 8, 2021

carpediem991 said:
We should feel very lucky to have someone like Levy and Enic who would never put the financial stability of the club at risk or toying around carelessly with it. Surely some decisions in terms of coaches and transfers have been questionable and frustrating but overall we could be off far worse. Look at West Ham, Newcastle, Sunderland or others.

"But West Ham are above us in the league..."

dontcallme · Apr 8, 2021

RichieS said:
"But West Ham are above us in the league..."

Right now but it's only temporary. In the time that ENIC have been in charge West Ham have been relegated twice, won nothing nor been in the CL.

JUSTINSIGNAL · Apr 8, 2021

Stamford said:
The main point I was making though in response to the original post was that there is a demand for superstars which there definitely isnt.

Maybe not on this board as such but among the wider fanbase there are definitely unrealistic targets. Last summer I was seeing people suggest we sign Haaland as back up striker to Harry Kane and nonsense like that. Fact is much of this kind of talk just demonstrates ignorance, or general lack of understanding of the clubs financial position. And my overall point was that if fans bothered to actually try and understand our financial position and strategy - rather than just let frustration boil over because that they can't take bantering from rival fans - then it would be easier for them to support the club rather than just live in perpetual outrage.

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