ENIC...

So basically everyone is pissed off with levy but they know that he’s very good at his job compared to every other chairman.

What fans want is to win but I don’t think they acknowledge how difficult it is to win because everyone else wants the same thing and many others have more resources. Plus fans don’t acknowledge their own myriad mistakes and bad judgement calls and make loads of harsh judgements based on hindsight.

shelfboy68 said:

Groucho, Harpo and Chico Marx.

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Would they ask for a sanity clause?

yankspurs said:

He’s just been told to fuck off by 4 different managers. No one wants to manage us. One of the richest clubs in Europe with state of art facilities and the best striker in the world. That is down to one man. DOF or not, his position is untenable.

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Hilarious that you used Jesse Marsch as one of the guys that "turned us down". He was ALWAYS going to Leipzig once Nagelsmann left. What the fuck are you talking about?

LeParisien said:

So basically everyone is pissed off with levy but they know that he’s very good at his job compared to every other chairman.

What fans want is to win but I don’t think they acknowledge how difficult it is to win because everyone else wants the same thing and many others have more resources. Plus fans don’t acknowledge their own myriad mistakes and bad judgement calls and make loads of harsh judgements based on hindsight.

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Pretty much the nail on the head. Guys, we don't know anything about how our club is run, how the football transfer market runs and, well, pretty much anything. We just aren't privy to the information. Having big long arguments about team selections and tactics is fine, because it's all subjective. But when we're talking about the economics of the club and why we didn't sign Grealish, or whoever, we don't know shit.

So where do all these strongly-held, aggressive opinions come from? Everyone needs to wind their neck in about Levy and Enic and we all need to accept our ignorance.

TheBlueRooster said:

Would they ask for a sanity clause?

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Yes but levy would demand a higher fee.

LeParisien said:

So basically everyone is pissed off with levy but they know that he’s very good at his job compared to every other chairman.

What fans want is to win but I don’t think they acknowledge how difficult it is to win because everyone else wants the same thing and many others have more resources. Plus fans don’t acknowledge their own myriad mistakes and bad judgement calls and make loads of harsh judgements based on hindsight.

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I'm not sure I agree with your assertion that Danny boy would top a beauty pageant of Prem. league boss's,based on past or current form.
I agree with you the winners by and large come from a small cartel who have huge resources ,with which to effectively mop up the best players and managers ,leaving the rest of us to fight over the crumbs.

We obviously can't stand toe to toe against the top 4 ,they'll only ever be one outcome. And I may be mistaken but I don't believe it's all about silverware . ( don't smile) I'm sure most of the members on this forum would happily take style over sterility even if we are destined to remain bridesmaid, never the bride.What is missing is a clearly defined direction of travel,from our diminutive leader.
Unfortunately as we know to our cost following 20 years of his stewardship, Levy's vision is more to do with maximizing his investment than providing a memorable footballing legacy for us mugs....

Spirit of '61 said:

I'm not sure I agree with your assertion that Danny boy would top a beauty pageant of Prem. league boss's,based on past or current form.
I agree with you the winners by and large come from a small cartel who have huge resources ,with which to effectively mop up the best players and managers ,leaving the rest of us to fight over the crumbs.

We obviously can't stand toe to toe against the top 4 ,they'll only ever be one outcome. And I may be mistaken but I don't believe it's all about silverware . ( don't smile) I'm sure most of the members on this forum would happily take style over sterility even if we are destined to remain bridesmaid, never the bride.What is missing is a clearly defined direction of travel,from our diminutive leader.
Unfortunately as we know to our cost following 20 years of his stewardship, Levy's vision is more to do with maximizing his investment than providing a memorable footballing legacy for us mugs....

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My assertion is fair and based on the deafening silence to the following challenge:

Name 3 chairmen in the world you’d rather have than Daniel Levy.

You know that you may have criticisms but our guy is a world class chairman and we’re lucky to have him. You can disagree with that but I’d love to hear your reasoning.

Also you are making assertions which are at best uncharitable. Of course he wants to maximise his investment but he also wants to ensure long term improvement in the club. Sometimes his stance is more risk averse than some fans would like but that’s his prerogative. He’s far less likely to have made serious backwards steps than less risk averse people would ha e over 20 years.

LeParisien said:

My assertion is fair and based on the deafening silence to the following challenge:

Name 3 chairmen in the world you’d rather have than Daniel Levy.

You know that you may have criticisms but our guy is a world class chairman and we’re lucky to have him. You can disagree with that but I’d love to hear your reasoning.

Also you are making assertions which are at best uncharitable. Of course he wants to maximise his investment but he also wants to ensure long term improvement in the club. Sometimes his stance is more risk averse than some fans would like but that’s his prerogative. He’s far less likely to have made serious backwards steps than less risk averse people would ha e over 20 years.

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I think Levy flatters to deceive, we have been mesmerized by the stadium. His long term goals which involve huge capital investments and grandiose NFL plans,will ultimately benefit the saleability of his asset than making us more happy when watching the latest iteration of our team's performance on the pitch.
Maybe your right ,he's not the worst owner out there, but I think we deserve a whole lot better.

Spirit of '61 said:

I think Levy flatters to deceive, we have been mesmerized by the stadium. His long term goals which involve huge capital investments and grandiose NFL plans,will ultimately benefit the saleability of his asset than making us more happy when watching the latest iteration of our team's performance on the pitch.
Maybe your right ,he's not the worst owner out there, but I think we deserve a whole lot better.

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The stadium benefits the club. The NFL plans will benefit the club. Revenue streams are being sunk back into the team or invested to further increase revenue. You keep creating a false dichotomy. These things increase the value of the business but also benefit THFC.

I think the fact it’s so difficult to point to better owners/chairmen is testament to what a good job he’s done.

LeParisien said:

The stadium benefits the club. The NFL plans will benefit the club. Revenue streams are being sunk back into the team or invested to further increase revenue. You keep creating a false dichotomy. These things increase the value of the business but also benefit THFC.

I think the fact it’s so difficult to point to better owners/chairmen is testament to what a good job he’s done.

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With the greatest of respect the stadium on it's own could just as well act as a millstone around the neck of this club as a magic ticket to dine with the big boys.
I understand the business model /rational behind these developments, I just disagree with you that the end point will ultimately satisfy Levy more than you or me.

buckley said:

Billionaires who want to buy into football are rare things . The money People at Chelsea and City are using their club to clean their image which to be fair is pretty awful . The owners off Arsenal and United are using their clubs to help fund their Business interests in America .
So I wont be holding my breath for an owner that would be rich enough and moral enough for us to want them .
The obvious ones are in technology and computer gaming and do not show any inclination to get involved with " Soccer "
If anybody has got suitable and sensible names I would really like to hear them .

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The Spotify guy but being that he's an arsenal fan, we don't stand a chance. Apart from that - fantastic point.

Metalhead said:

The Spotify guy but being that he's an arsenal fan, we don't stand a chance. Apart from that - fantastic point.

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1.i dont think that he has enough money.
2.I would expect gender pronouns added to players bio if he takes over.

MassadaTom said:

1.i dont think that he has enough money.
2.I would expect gender pronouns added to players bio if he takes over.

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I thought that but I'm sure that I read that he offered 1.8 billion for arsenal.

HodisGawd said:

Pretty much the nail on the head. Guys, we don't know anything about how our club is run, how the football transfer market runs and, well, pretty much anything. We just aren't privy to the information. Having big long arguments about team selections and tactics is fine, because it's all subjective. But when we're talking about the economics of the club and why we didn't sign Grealish, or whoever, we don't know shit.

So where do all these strongly-held, aggressive opinions come from? Everyone needs to wind their neck in about Levy and Enic and we all need to accept our ignorance.

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I think it fair to measure Levy by what he said would happen, to what did happen.
Like the stadium sponsor who would supposedly pay most the cost of building the thing. Normally announced in the early stages of a build, it still hasn't happened. Remember this was one of the reasons the club didn't just beef up some of the existing stands, like liverpool did.

How about the idea that stadium expenses would be totally isolated from our transfer budget?

How about this new way of doing things with the world class academy? Where are all these eager talents? It has produced just Harry Winks so far.

Then we have the continual sacking of managers. Some certainly didn't deserve it. And at peculiar times like in the middle of a game or a week before a final. Doesn't seem that the selection process is too thorough and the sackings seem more in rage at times.

This is before we consider him nearly throwing our premiership membership away with the superleague.

I've probably forgotten half of it, but there certainly is a case to answer.

LeParisien said:

So basically everyone is pissed off with levy but they know that he’s very good at his job compared to every other chairman.

What fans want is to win but I don’t think they acknowledge how difficult it is to win because everyone else wants the same thing and many others have more resources. Plus fans don’t acknowledge their own myriad mistakes and bad judgement calls and make loads of harsh judgements based on hindsight.

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Sorry to be a contrarian again, but I think there is a remote possibility that there are two aspects of being a chairman that is being conflated. There is what he does to run the club as a business. In that sense, given everything he has achieved, and in context of how other clubs are run, how other clubs have relied on crazy rich owners, he has done a brilliant job. Truly has set up Tottenham Hotspur to be fiscal juggernauts in the future. And it shall be achieved the right way, and without having to rely on financially risky/foolhardy decision making. It has taken a long time to get to where we are now, and if not for the Covid situation, I think we would see the full benefits of what the commercial side of the business can hopefully bring to the footballing side.

You are correct. It is very hard to win. Especially in a league where some clubs have bottomless pockets, while others are already well established powerhouses who are flush with cash, due to the size of their stadium, merchandising and branding.

Go through my post history since 2011. You'll see, by and large, I've mostly been positive about Daniel. Yes, frustrated from time to time. But also tip my hat at what he has achieved, that few would dare even consider, let alone take on and see through to fruition.

Then there is the other side of what a football team does... playing football.

We are an elite set of teams, that have been in Division 1, until it was the Premier League, from the late 1970s, until now. The others I believe are: Man U, Liverpool, Arsenal, Everton. Even the almighty Chelsea were relegated in 1987.

Let's look at what each of the four above have achieved since 1980:

Everton - 2 FA Cups, 2 Div 1 titles, 1 UEFA Cup
Liverpool -5 FA Cups, 7 Div1/PL titles, 4 European/CL Cups, 8 League Cups, 3 UEFA cups
Man U - 7 FA Cups, 13 PL titles, 5 league cups, 3 European/CL Cups
Tottenham - 3 FA Cups, 2 League Cups, 1 UEFA cup

For Tottenham, since 1991 we have one a grand total of two honors: trophies were League Cups (1999, 2008). Highest Div 1/PL position in since 1980: Second x1.

ENIC took control of Spurs in 2001.
Since then, we have one league cup.
Runners up in a CL.
Runners up in 9 millions FA cup semi finals
Runners up in a few League Cups
Highest league finish is 2nd.
Qualified for the CL 4 times.

So, in 20 years, on the footballing side, yes it is very clear we have struggled.
Yes, it is difficult to win. Everyone understands that.

But you can't cast aspersions at Spurs fans for feeling frustrated that we haven't achieved more in terms of honors, since Daniel took charge. It's only natural. It's why we support a team. To see us winning things.

I've supported Spurs since 1980. First, it was as matter of survival (story for another time)... and then eventually I fell in love.

I was in Wembley in 1991 when we won the FA Cup. It was a beautiful thing to behold.

So, yeah... given we are one of four teams to be good enough to be in the England's top division since 1980... it goes without saying that there is going to be annoyance and lack of patience. We are supposedly a big club. Yet... fucking Leeds and Blackburn and Leicester and Everton have won the league during that time. And the best we could do is finish 2nd... once.

Don't patronize fans for simply wanting to win. Don't conflate business of a football club with the footballing of a football club. These are two very different things. One of which Daniel has handled better than anyone else out there. The other... well, the results speak for themselves.

Whether right or wrong many feel the Chairman could have delivered more on the Footballing side since 2001.

We are fed up with be also-rans. Fed up with occasionally getting close enough to touch the stars, only for it be snatched away.

There is no sensibility or sanity or rationality when it comes to being a dyed-in-the-wool football fan. It's emotional. Irrational. Idiotic even. And when emotions run high, people lash out. And I think if there are any fans in the PL who are more than entitled to have nonsensical pity parties and riotous rage, it's those of Tottenham Hotspur. Logic has nothing to do with it. Practicality and reality have nothing to do with it. As those are not steady-state traits of ardent sports fans. Especially those of this club.

You wanna see some real fucking capricious crankiness and absurd irrationality - try spending a day in Philly, talking to an Eagles fan.

Sorry if it annoys you that some fans get a pissy with Levy. Sorry it prompts you to tell other fans that they are not being realistic. But, can you blame us? We're fucking Spurs fans, for crying out loud. What do you expect?

Taking the ESL out of the equation (it was a massive misjudgement) I always found the venom against Levy slightly odd. We have had it pretty good in the last 15 years. It’s been slow progress but we have had regular champions league nights, title chases, beating the best teams in Europe and a final on the biggest stage of league football. But throughout, and it’s important to stress that, throughout there as been a really stringent anti levy and Enic segment to our fan base that is often quite toxic. In comparison to clubs of our stature (Everton, Villa, Newcastle, etc) we’ve out performed the lot, havn’t been drawn into relegation fights ( or relegated) and caught up and overtook Arsenal on the field (as well as off) and have regularly finished above Liverpool for long periods. We established ourselves as a top 4/6 club. I think as fans we forget how hard it was to get there. Top four at one point seemed insurmountable. Now we are expected to qualify each season. Beating Arsenal seemed miles away. We do it regularly now. There are fair reasons to criticise - getting some transfers over the line and high season ticket prices for example but nothing that warrants the more nasty elements of the Levy abuse. And some of it does go way over the top. It sometimes feels as though there are other motives at hand. It gets that toxic. It is behaviour you would expect at Newcastle or West Ham when they are about to get relegated or a club that has been properly ruined by owners who now find themselves in league 2 or out of the football league altogether. Not a side regularly competing at the top end of the league.

I don’t know whether what we see on here or Twitter is just a small microcosm of opinion that isn’t really reflected amongst our fanbase (hence why we see little or no protests against them) or its just how football fans behave these days (manager out after a loss etc) but yeah, always found the abuse odd.

Unfortunately for Levy he has scored a spectacular own goal that gives his detractors proper ammunition to work with as well making people on the fence further question him. I don’t know if he will ever recover from that and we could be at the beginning of the end of his and/or Enic departure.

jeremystorey said:

So, yeah... given we are one of four teams to be good enough to be in the England's top division since 1980... it goes without saying that there is going to be annoyance and lack of patience. We are supposedly a big club. Yet... fucking Leeds and Blackburn and Leicester and Everton have won the league during that time. And the best we could do is finish 2nd... once.

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I think you're cherry picking to suit an agenda. Everton won the league 35 years ago - the game has changed a lot since.

In bigger contexts, we've won the (top) league only twice in 138 years. Up until ENIC's takeover, it had been some 40 years. What right does that actually give us to win it again within the last 20 years, when our average was once every 60?

Furthermore, they/we were unlucky enough to see Super-wealth coming in at both Chelsea and City. They are pretty much the two most dominant teams of this century so far. So that's where our part of a 'top 4' makes us the 'top 6'.

Even now, you have (basically) mega wealth behind Utd, Arsenal, Chelsea, City, Liverpool, Everton, Leicester. Even Brighton and WBA have a Billionaire owner. Southampton (Jisheng) and Palace (Harris) also have 3bn in wealth. Guangchang at Wolves is wealthier than Lewis. Sawiris at Villa even more again. Khan at Fulham is worth around 6bn.

I don't understand what 'right' we have to be doing any better than we have been, to be honest. We've been close, and the difference in finals and semis hasn't really been down to anything other than tactics or mentality.

LeParisien said:

The stadium benefits the club. The NFL plans will benefit the club. Revenue streams are being sunk back into the team or invested to further increase revenue. You keep creating a false dichotomy. These things increase the value of the business but also benefit THFC.

I think the fact it’s so difficult to point to better owners/chairmen is testament to what a good job he’s done.

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im amazed people still can’t see through Enic..If it’s a building project they are interested.
we literally have a cone man as manager..

LeParisien said:

I’m genuinely curious - those who want levy gone, can you make 3 other chairman in world football you’d prefer?

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im curious, where is your line in the sand with Levy.

LeParisien said:

My assertion is fair and based on the deafening silence to the following challenge:

Name 3 chairmen in the world you’d rather have than Daniel Levy.

You know that you may have criticisms but our guy is a world class chairman and we’re lucky to have him. You can disagree with that but I’d love to hear your reasoning.

Also you are making assertions which are at best uncharitable. Of course he wants to maximise his investment but he also wants to ensure long term improvement in the club. Sometimes his stance is more risk averse than some fans would like but that’s his prerogative. He’s far less likely to have made serious backwards steps than less risk averse people would ha e over 20 years.

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Are you his love child?