ENIC...

mkkid said:

you are running a 1.5 billion company , do you appoint the deputy manager of a regional store.

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If you're recruiting for the manager of a regional store, yes.

You're trying to twist some sort of metaphor to make it sound like he's running the entire company - not picking and coaching the side. Which he is.

Mourinho was 1st Team Coach - that's the position Ryan is handling.

shelfboy68 said:

We have had a lot more success er where?

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Are you arguing that Kenwright has had more success than Levy since he took over in chairman in 2004?

We’ve one a trophy in that time, they haven’t.
Our average league position has been higher.
Weve qualified fir the champions league more often.
We’ve reached more semi finals.
We’ve reached more finals.
We’ve completed an ambitious, long-running stadium project, they haven’t.

By what possible measure has Kenwright done a better job than Levy since 2004? Can you see why much of the levy criticism seems insane?

Saoirse said:

However, it doesn't excuse what's happened since 2016. In all that time, the only signing you could truly say was a success was Victor Wanyama. Everyone else has been somewhere between okay and terrible, or of course non-existent for 18 months. The squad has been allowed to stagnate badly, he didn't have the confidence to bring in second-choice targets Poch wasn't sure about, and the signings with have made are consistently poor.

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Not sure why uber-crocked Wanyama is a 'success' over Moura (single-handedly got us to the CL final, pretty much), or Llorente (who got us to the CL semis with his arse). Aurier has been pretty good on the whole, and many of the others are youth prospects who, to judge now, would be like judging Bale when he was a left back (e.g. Sess, Clarke, Etete).

Saoirse said:

We've abandoned our go-to of cheap, young, speculative talent for expensive failures like Janssen

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Or Sessegnon, Clarke, Etete, Foyth.

How do you judge 'expensive' over the 'going rate'? When was this our "go to"? Dele and Dier were cheap, but have certainly not been great for a long time. Historically, Bale wasn't any cheaper (taking inflation into account) than Sessegnon or Janssen, Bentley was expensive. I'm not sure what imaginary standard you're using as a comparator

Saoirse said:

experienced pros who lack the talent needed like Doherty and Sissoko, and overpriced prospects like Lo Celso and Ndombele.

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Which is just lovely to do in hindsight, but the first two were pulling up trees for the clubs we signed them from, and the latter come into the camp of "Levy doesn't back Poch with big money singings that are his first choice, but when he does, they're 'overpriced'".

I feel like a lot of the criticism I read of the board is that they aren't perfect - one minute they don't back the manager, the next they shouldn't have bought players Poch clearly wanted (Janssen, Ndombele, GLC), the next they don't pay people enough and DL's a cheapskate, to now reading that DL overpays managers, to being cheap with transfers, and now you're saying that we shouldn't be buying expensive, but instead the cheap players.


Don't get me wrong, I am all for the academy/grow-your-own model - it's what's worked well for us. I just can't follow the fickleness of people always choosing the option that we didn't take, even when it's a contradiction or hypocrisy.

sausage said:

Not sure why uber-crocked Wanyama is a 'success' over Moura (single-handedly got us to the CL final, pretty much), or Llorente (who got us to the CL semis with his arse). Aurier has been pretty good on the whole, and many of the others are youth prospects who, to judge now, would be like judging Bale when he was a left back (e.g. Sess, Clarke, Etete).



Or Sessegnon, Clarke, Etete, Foyth.

How do you judge 'expensive' over the 'going rate'? When was this our "go to"? Dele and Dier were cheap, but have certainly not been great for a long time. Historically, Bale wasn't any cheaper (taking inflation into account) than Sessegnon or Janssen, Bentley was expensive. I'm not sure what imaginary standard you're using as a comparator



Which is just lovely to do in hindsight, but the first two were pulling up trees for the clubs we signed them from, and the latter come into the camp of "Levy doesn't back Poch with big money singings that are his first choice, but when he does, they're 'overpriced'".

I feel like a lot of the criticism I read of the board is that they aren't perfect - one minute they don't back the manager, the next they shouldn't have bought players Poch clearly wanted (Janssen, Ndombele, GLC), the next they don't pay people enough and DL's a cheapskate, to now reading that DL overpays managers, to being cheap with transfers, and now you're saying that we shouldn't be buying expensive, but instead the cheap players.


Don't get me wrong, I am all for the academy/grow-your-own model - it's what's worked well for us. I just can't follow the fickleness of people always choosing the option that we didn't take, even when it's a contradiction or hypocrisy.

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Because there's absolutely nothing you can do about a player picking up an injury like he did. Lucas did have that one very good game to get us yet another batch of runners-up medals, but doesn't offer enough in general. He's a clear downgrade from when we used to have DESK as our front four. Aurier a clear downgrade on Walker. Over five years, every single position in our squad has either stayed the same or got worse. It's inexcusable.

As for the players we used to buy - Son, Dele, Dier, Hugo, Jan, Rose, Walker, Eriksen all joined us well before their prime. It's always going to be hit-and-miss. But five years without a hit isn't bad luck, it's bad judgement.

Saoirse said:

Because there's absolutely nothing you can do about a player picking up an injury like he did. Lucas did have that one very good game to get us yet another batch of runners-up medals, but doesn't offer enough in general. He's a clear downgrade from when we used to have DESK as our front four. Aurier a clear downgrade on Walker. Over five years, every single position in our squad has either stayed the same or got worse. It's inexcusable.

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We had less to spend for several years because of the stadium. We’ve spent a lot more since it opened. Financial prudence during a time of uncertainty is a good thing.

You damned Levy for buying expensive players like Lo Celso and Ndombele but also say he hasn’t spent enough. You might be frustrated but being a chairman is a thankless task and I am sure Levy shares your frustrations at times !

LeParisien said:

We had less to spend for several years because of the stadium. We’ve spent a lot more since it opened. Financial prudence during a time of uncertainty is a good thing.

You damned Levy for buying expensive players like Lo Celso and Ndombele but also say he hasn’t spent enough. You might be frustrated but being a chairman is a thankless task and I am sure Levy shares your frustrations at times !

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Financial prudence is one thing. 18 months of zero transfers is a disaster. He'd have been far better off selling someone to refresh the squad. And since the stadium opened you're right, he's spent a lot of money and not done very well at all with it.

Saoirse said:

Aurier a clear downgrade on Walker. Over five years, every single position in our squad has either stayed the same or got worse. It's inexcusable.

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So do we blame Poch or Levy for it? It doesn't even need evidence that Poch wanted Walker gone. Aurier is a blend of Walker and Trippier, and (I believe) has more assists and goals than either got for us, in less games too (again, I believe) so if that's what Poch wanted from that position, he got it.

I guess the question is, who should build the team? Should Levy had vetoed Poch's choices? Should Poch have had different ideas for what he wanted from his players? How about Mitchell, or Hitchen?

I personally think we should have a coach, and a bloke who is more responsible for obtaining and choosing the transfers in a Sporting Director/DoF model. There's nothing to say that they can't work with a coach and find middle ground, but 'managers' (or '1st Team Coaches') have no real stake or interest in 18 year olds who can't help the team now, as the know they won't be around for their fruition, and that's the problem that Levy really needs to address. Similarly, we should appreciate the value of older, short term transfers that can add value to the team.

Overall, that's the mistake - not this "back the manager" stuff, but failing to abstract the team building task away from the coaching staff and the bean counters.

LeParisien said:

Are you arguing that Kenwright has had more success than Levy since he took over in chairman in 2004?

We’ve one a trophy in that time, they haven’t.
Our average league position has been higher.
Weve qualified fir the champions league more often.
We’ve reached more semi finals.
We’ve reached more finals.
We’ve completed an ambitious, long-running stadium project, they haven’t.

By what possible measure has Kenwright done a better job than Levy since 2004? Can you see why much of the levy criticism seems insane?

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I never said anything about Everton did I? What I questioned was this success you infered or lack of it.
The fanbase is divided no question because you keep banging on to name better owners than levy.
This is all subjective because that is in the eye of the beholder, some could argue that city, Chelsea, Liverpool etc are just as good if not better because they are successful where it counts on the pitch which we are clearly not.
Yes levy does well getting financial deals done but fails in the core element of the business which is the playing side, you and some others feel that he is untouchable and should not be questioned or held accountable.
It's a pointless argument because none of us are going to change our stance we have entrenched views based on what they see, meanwhile the football club remains shit and lacking a winning culture from top to bottom.

TheBlueRooster said:

Would they ask for a sanity clause?

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Ha, you can't fool us...

... Sanity Claus isn't real.

shelfboy68 said:

I never said anything about Everton did I? What I questioned was this success you infered or lack of it.
The fanbase is divided no question because you keep banging on to name better owners than levy.
This is all subjective because that is in the eye of the beholder, some could argue that city, Chelsea, Liverpool etc are just as good if not better because they are successful where it counts on the pitch which we are clearly not.
Yes levy does well getting financial deals done but fails in the core element of the business which is the playing side, you and some others feel that he is untouchable and should not be questioned or held accountable.
It's a pointless argument because none of us are going to change our stance we have entrenched views based on what they see, meanwhile the football club remains shit and lacking a winning culture from top to bottom.

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The fan base is divided because Im expecting people to relativise our performance? Sure.

If people think the Chelsea or Man City model is something to be envious of then I guess you’re right - we won’t agree.

LeParisien said:

The fan base is divided because Im expecting people to relativise our performance? Sure.

If people think the Chelsea or Man City model is something to be envious of then I guess you’re right - we won’t agree.

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Then I bid you good day my man.

shelfboy68 said:

I never said anything about Everton did I? What I questioned was this success you infered or lack of it.
The fanbase is divided no question because you keep banging on to name better owners than levy.
This is all subjective because that is in the eye of the beholder, some could argue that city, Chelsea, Liverpool etc are just as good if not better because they are successful where it counts on the pitch which we are clearly not.
Yes levy does well getting financial deals done but fails in the core element of the business which is the playing side, you and some others feel that he is untouchable and should not be questioned or held accountable.
It's a pointless argument because none of us are going to change our stance we have entrenched views based on what they see, meanwhile the football club remains shit and lacking a winning culture from top to bottom.

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What utter Neanderthal drivel.

If you think our football club "remains shit" you should simply go support another. Perhaps you'd prefer a club owned by a murderous regime? Or a money laundering Russian oligarch? Or a bunch of distant Americans who care nothing for football and lumber your club with mountains of debt.

Those clubs are rolling in cash and as a result silverware - and if that's all football is you then please disappear.

We've had a poor (ish) season. Deal with it. You don't have to go all drama-llama about it. Roll on next season.

HodisGawd said:

What utter Neanderthal drivel.

If you think our football club "remains shit" you should simply go support another. Perhaps you'd prefer a club owned by a murderous regime? Or a money laundering Russian oligarch? Or a bunch of distant Americans who care nothing for football and lumber your club with mountains of debt.

Those clubs are rolling in cash and as a result silverware - and if that's all football is you then please disappear.

We've had a poor (ish) season. Deal with it. You don't have to go all drama-llama about it. Roll on next season.

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What a fucking drama queen you are jog on mate jog on.

Saoirse said:

Because there's absolutely nothing you can do about a player picking up an injury like he did. Lucas did have that one very good game to get us yet another batch of runners-up medals, but doesn't offer enough in general. He's a clear downgrade from when we used to have DESK as our front four. Aurier a clear downgrade on Walker. Over five years, every single position in our squad has either stayed the same or got worse. It's inexcusable.

As for the players we used to buy - Son, Dele, Dier, Hugo, Jan, Rose, Walker, Eriksen all joined us well before their prime. It's always going to be hit-and-miss. But five years without a hit isn't bad luck, it's bad judgement.

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Our recruitment is garbage. Under Poch, it was a combination of Poch rejecting some of Daniel’s plan z targets, Levy refusing to spend on Poch’s targets, and our head of recruitment, mr i hate transfer windows, just not being particularly good at his job. No with Poch gone, it was just Levy still not opening up the purse strings much as Mourinho accepted whoever he got offered.

This wont get much better until Levy goes. Anyone a manager wants, levy will say no unless they cost 10m. And that is why no manager wants to come here.

HodisGawd said:

What utter Neanderthal drivel.

If you think our football club "remains shit" you should simply go support another. Perhaps you'd prefer a club owned by a murderous regime? Or a money laundering Russian oligarch? Or a bunch of distant Americans who care nothing for football and lumber your club with mountains of debt.

Those clubs are rolling in cash and as a result silverware - and if that's all football is you then please disappear.

We've had a poor (ish) season. Deal with it. You don't have to go all drama-llama about it. Roll on next season.

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You know, some of your posts are somewhat overly aggressive & disrespectful.

Not having a pop. I just think that you're clearly not lacking intelligence, so it's a shame you (sometimes) post so aggressively.

It's ironic that you started the quoted response with, "what utter Neanderthal drivel", as that's a somewhat Neanderthalic (I think I just made that word up) way to communicate with someone else.

I just have a feeling you're better than that.

I hear there’s sales on honeymoon suites in resorts right now. Might want to look into that @HodisGawd & @shelfboy68

shelfboy68 said:

What a fucking drama queen you are jog on mate jog on.

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I wasn't the one who said we are "shit and lacking a winning culture from top to bottom".

That is the kind of cringe hyperbole you'd expect of a teenager. We are fine. We just need a new manager. Now stop shitting the bed.

Drink!Drink! said:

Said before will do so again, no fans don’t need to provide an executive head hunt short list of replacements before they are allowed to come to a view that Levy needs replacing.

being that THFC is a global company, thinking globally I’d say there are easily over a 100 people out there, maybe more , who could do his job, from football and other related industries especially if we appoint a proper DoF. Don’t agree with applying the “proper football man” test to who can do the job, and a bit weird to think Levy would pass any such test.

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Exactly this.

@LeParisien keeps droning on about naming Levy replacements who would be better. That argument is so fundamentally flawed because football executives aren’t like managers or players. There isn’t a pool of known quantities. We’re not going to replace Levy with another PL executive. Asking fans to name Levy replacements is futile because in the same way we didn’t know who Daniel Levy was before he took over at Spurs, we likely won’t know anything about who any hypothetical replacement is.

I’ve always given Levy his credit. When the stadium opened I posted here that it will forever be his legacy and I still believe that. I actually don’t think he should be replaced because he’s doing a great job on the business side.

The football side is a whole different matter. On that side, he’s failing. He has been for at a minimum the last three years.

I want Levy to step away from the football side. He can continue to run Tottenham Hotspur the company. But he needs to allow someone to come in and run the football side. Given them a budget to work with and let the manager, DoF, youth coaches, recruitment staff etc work within that budget to achieve best results on the pitch.

Levy is not a football man. He may be a football fan but he’s not a football man in the way that Rangnick, Campos, Orta, Paul Mitchell, Michael Edwards, Monchi etc are.

We need a DoF to give the football side some direction. To decide on a philosophy for success that this club is going to pursue and decide on managers, and players to fit within that philosophy. To put a robust recruitment and scouting system in place so that we’re always tracking players that fit within our model. We need a DoF and a manager to manage the squad and identify when players need to move on - an area that we’ve been poor in. Levy cannot do this role because he’s not capable. Not because he’s incompetent but because it’s not his skill set.

Let the DoF run the playing side and Levy can continue do what he does best to grow the company and the brand, secure sponsorships to increase revenue etc etc.

HodisGawd said:

I wasn't the one who said we are "shit and lacking a winning culture from top to bottom".

That is the kind of cringe hyperbole you'd expect of a teenager. We are fine. We just need a new manager. Now stop shitting the bed.

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We have been shit and we lack a winning culture it isn't up for an argument now take your tampon out and calm down.

There is some serious sexual tension on some of these threads today.