ENIC...

Shadydan · Sep 3, 2021

Stuart Leathercock said:
Backup striker on loan…. Now gone (and not replaced)
‘World class forward’ on loan…. Now gone (and not replaced)

Mourinho paid £15m a year as he toldLevy we already had the squad and bringing him in was far cheaper than listening to Pochettino and going about the painful rebuild. Manager now sacked after Pochettino proved right and a cheaper one now brought in.

‘To dare is too dear’

All this sounds great but this is pretty irrelevant, please follow the debate, the poster said

I’m talking about adding strength on top of what we had, signing a top performing PL player, etc. We won’t do it.

When that proves we did and ultimately it failed. You can debate the mertis surrounding that all you want with how we got to that stage and what we, did/didn't do after but that totally contradicts his opinion and that was the point of bringing it up.

Shadydan · Sep 3, 2021

Stuart Leathercock said:
When you are a club that do not go out and buy better replacements then that is always likely to be the case.

Better replacements for who?

dudu · Sep 3, 2021

McFlash said:
The latest ITK is a bit of a concern, stating that once again, Levy couldn't help himself but get involved in the football matters again.
I know that ITK isn't gospel but this is coming from three different, reliable sources.

I had hoped, as I'm sure we all had, that hiring Paratici was a positive sign that Levy was stepping away from the team side of things but that appears not to be the case and he's stuck his oar in again at the first opportunity.

If it is indeed true that Levy has once again meddled in transfers, especially after hiring a well respected expert in the field, it's a worrying picture.

I have to agree that Levy is setting a precident here, perhaps where she shouldn't be and I could see why that may frustrate FP.

But the thing that doesn't sit right with me is people ignoring it was FPs job to find us a striker not DL. Most people, while frustrated with DL for what he allegedly did would agree Traore was not entirely what we needed in a player so where was the striker that we needed in our budget? I was under the impression FP would have a few irons in the fire but if what we hear is believed then Nuno had one target and one target only, for a player in a position we don't particularly need another player in.

If that is the case then I have to question their judgement too.

dudu · Sep 3, 2021

Stuart Leathercock said:
Backup striker on loan…. Now gone (and not replaced)
‘World class forward’ on loan…. Now gone (and not replaced)

Mourinho paid £15m a year as he toldLevy we already had the squad and bringing him in was far cheaper than listening to Pochettino and going about the painful rebuild. Manager now sacked after Pochettino proved right and a cheaper one now brought in.

‘To dare is too dear’

Dude, it was FPs job to fill those positions not DLs. DL vetod a move for a right wing forward that wouldn't have been a direct replacement for either of those players.

davidmatzdorf · Sep 3, 2021

Stuart Leathercock said:
Agreed other than the ‘invest’ part…. Our owners have made a (paper) profit of around £1.5b yet not invested a single penny of that back into the club via liquidity injection or diluting their equity.

They “invest” in the sense that they acquire an asset, raise its value over many years mainly through capital projects and then dispose of the asset for a capital gain. That’s investment in its purest sense.

Liquidity injection is not “investment” compared to building things, because it doesn’t raise the value of the asset, which is the whole point of investment.

wrd · Sep 3, 2021

Transfer window wrap - a special Q&A with Fabio Paratici | Tottenham Hotspur

The summer transfer window closed at 11pm on Tuesday evening. In this special Q&A, Fabio Paratici, our Managing Director, Football, talks about our business in the window, the balance of the squad, Nuno Espirito Santo - and his passion for football...

www.tottenhamhotspur.com

This is great, I know as always with any message from any director in a company there will always be a question of authenticity or whether he's saying how they really feel but I think this is a nice touch, just a little bit of connectivity with the fans and gives us some clarity on why they did the business we did. Maybe not the full story but as I've said before, I think this sort of stuff is endearing with the fans.

Lighty64 · Sep 3, 2021

SirNiNyHotspur said:
Nothing changes with you lighty, I was talking about the Leicester season, you’re right though the injuries weren’t that season, but Son missed a lot, was still establishing himself too, we were crying out for some big signings of intent in January this being our big chance with big clubs struggling, Kane overused, nothing happened, we lost to Leicester in January, the rest is history as they say...

When the rest of your post talks such nonsense that I wouldn't be content if we were winning trophies it barely merits a response, do you actually think about what you write? If I didn't give a crap about whether Spurs won trophies or not I wouldn't give a crap about ENIC either, also if we were winners under ENIC we wouldn’t be having this same debate, so idiotic moot points. Unlike you, I don’t believe we are unlucky to not win under ENIC, I believe it is a systemic issue due to how we are run whereby when they have had opportunities they have failed.

so if you think they haven’t tried to win trophies how the hell have we reached and failed to make numerous finals and semifinals? and I said if we started winning, thats not the same as "if we were WINNING".

So if we win the CoC this season and again in 25, are you actually going to say thanks ENIC you have finally made us successful. Well I'll answer that for you, your still be moaning we are not successful enough, big enough and didn't spend money 10 years earlier, and you would put the success down to anyone other than ENIC.

the Leicester season was a freak, and we actually lost it at the start (3pts from 4 games) and a bit of a rocky October. at the end of January that season I think we were 5 pts behind Arsenal, and that game v Leicester we pretty much dominated but got undone by a corner right at the end.

That season Kane never missed a single PL match, and Son did miss 10 games, but he wasn't injured in January. so perhaps you might want to do a little homework before posting crap. the only thing you post that is true is we don't spend enough, but you can't spend what you haven't got at the time. Yes blah blah blah fast forward to 2018, we never bought anyone, the ENIC haters will always blame Levy, the ones that listen to what happened after have the understanding Poch didn't want any other players than what he asked for.

very few big transfers are ever made in January anyway, and it's only the BIG clubs that have the money (which due to a small stadium, which was being upgraded). in Pochettino's 5 seasons with us we made a total of 3 January transfers, Dele who went back on loan, DeYedin who never really broke into the 1st team, and Moura who only played a handful of games which were in the Cups.

Lighty64 · Sep 3, 2021

Stuart Leathercock said:
Agreed other than the ‘invest’ part…. Our owners have made a (paper) profit of around £1.5b yet not invested a single penny of that back into the club via liquidity injection or diluting their equity.

If they fail to sell in the rest of their lives they won’t make a silly profit

sly1 · Sep 3, 2021

spurs mental said:
...

I appreciate the good hes done for the club, but know that he's severely been lacking on the playing side. The ESL and manager debacle were embarrassing for him, and he earned some respect back with how he and the club handled Kane.

But IF this is true and he's vetoed moving for Traore because "Bergwijn is better/we create enough chances/other reasons" then he's going to lose some of that respect already. I find it difficult to believe he has done it like this, but I also don't find it difficult to believe he vetoed it because of the money. On the side of the BSODL Levy did this for the good of the club, on the side of the Levy outers he did this because of his ego or he's tight with our money.

...

I find it funny how the same posters who claim to be outraged by the idea that Levy made a "footballing decision" regarding not buying Traore are glad that Levy decided not to sell Kane, despite Paratici and Nuno apparently being for it.

99% of discussion of ENIC and Levy on this site comes down to more or less sophisticated versions of "I want lots of new signings".

Lighty64 · Sep 3, 2021

Stuart Leathercock said:
When you are a club that do not go out and buy better replacements then that is always likely to be the case.

when you’re a club of our size and stature especially since we started and what’s happened since we moved it’s very hard buying better replacements, because there are a lot of bigger clubs above us that have either overall history or just recent history and a lot more money.

not being funny but Ronaldo going to Man U will be paid in shirt sales. If he decided he would have loved a stint in London and he chose us, no way do we even sell a percentage of shirts with his name on the back

spurs mental · Sep 3, 2021

sly1 said:
I find it funny how the same posters who claim to be outraged by the idea that Levy made a "footballing decision" regarding not buying Traore are glad that Levy decided not to sell Kane, despite Paratici and Nuno apparently being for it.

99% of discussion of ENIC and Levy on this site comes down to more or less sophisticated versions of "I want lots of new signings".

You really haven't understood my post if that's what you think is happening.

SirNiNyHotspur · Sep 3, 2021

Lighty a lot of nonsense how you perceive I would be if we became successful, the fundamental point is I don’t believe we will be successful how we are run, so if we ever do become successful (not talking nearly men or best of the rest) then I give you permission to beat me down from your high horse. Now give yourself a break mate, if only Daniel cared as much about you as you him…

sly1 · Sep 3, 2021

spurs mental said:
You really haven't understood my post if that's what you think is happening.

I don’t think so.

The received wisdom on this site currently seems to be that Levy should stay out of “footballing decisions” and focus only on business and financial decisions. Yet I’m not convinced that there is such a clear distinction between these decisions as people make out. Instead, I think people have just started deciding that the things they like are Levy making good business decisions whereas things that they don’t like are Levy getting involved in footballing decisions.

Hence how everyone has suddenly tied themselves in knots to say that keeping Kane is a business decision whereas not signing Traore is a football decision.

Or, in your above post, that the ESL debacle was a footballing decision???

Lighty64 · Sep 3, 2021

SirNiNyHotspur said:
Lighty a lot of nonsense how you perceive I would be if we became successful, the fundamental point is I don’t believe we will be successful how we are run, so if we ever do become successful (not talking nearly men or best of the rest) then I give you permission to beat me down from your high horse. Now give yourself a break mate, if only Daniel cared as much about you as you him…

I don't care about Levy, I care about Tottenham Hotspur FC. I just don't think football is paid with Monopoly money. I understand that if 3 teams throw billions at success and you can't it makes it a lot harder to win things unless you just get that bit of luck to go with it.

your arguments falls pretty flat when you can't even remember what might have cost us a run at the League which NONE US even considered possible when they took us over. we struggled to even get European football on any regular basis.

spurs mental · Sep 3, 2021

sly1 said:
I don’t think so.

The received wisdom on this site currently seems to be that Levy should stay out of “footballing decisions” and focus only on business and financial decisions. Yet I’m not convinced that there is such a clear distinction between these decisions as people make out. Instead, I think people have just started deciding that the things they like are Levy making good business decisions whereas things that they don’t like are Levy getting involved in footballing decisions.

Hence how everyone has suddenly tied themselves in knots to say that keeping Kane is a business decision whereas not signing Traore is a football decision.

Or, in your above post, that the ESL debacle was a footballing decision???

The ESL came before we had Paratici in place. That was clearly a business decision but im not sure what exactly you're getting at with that? There isn't a chairman in the country who if offered to be in it would have turned it down anyway with the money that was reportedly on offer.

It is best if Levy stays away from decisions on the playing side. However that's impossible as he's going going set the budget for wages/transfers and will have to be kept in the loop. But as long as what Nuno, Paratici and Hitchen do are within budget he shouldn't involve himself. Nobody has tied themselves in knots over it.

sly1 · Sep 3, 2021

spurs mental said:
The ESL came before we had Paratici in place. That was clearly a business decision but im not sure what exactly you're getting at with that? There isn't a chairman in the country who if offered to be in it would have turned it down anyway with the money that was reportedly on offer.

It is best if Levy stays away from decisions on the playing side. However that's impossible as he's going going set the budget for wages/transfers and will have to be kept in the loop. But as long as what Nuno, Paratici and Hitchen do are within budget he shouldn't involve himself. Nobody has tied themselves in knots over it.

If it's impossible for Levy to stay away from the playing side, then how can it be best that he does that? It makes no sense.

I don't agree that there is a simple concept of "within budget". What we can afford to spend on a player that we are likely to be able to make a profit on in 3 years is very different to what we can afford to spend on a player we're going to be struggling to shift next summer.

You can't separate football and non-football decisions. It's perfectly coherent to say that Paratici and Nuno are right that Traore is the best player we can add for around £50m, but that there is also a very good chance that he won't be a guaranteed starter and could lose value massively.

Levy is responsible for the long-term success of the football club, and transfer strategy is a part of that, whether you like it or not. It is more likely than not that neither of Paratici or Nuno will be here in three years, so their perspective on what is a good transfer is inherently going to be more short-term than Levy's. It makes complete sense for Levy to have a say in who we buy, regardless of a hypothetical budget.

...also, I'm yet to here a good reason why keeping Kane is a business decision whereas buying Traore is a football decision. No doubt it is a dressed-up version of "the shirt sales alone will pay for him" wishful thinking.

spurs mental · Sep 3, 2021

sly1 said:
If it's impossible for Levy to stay away from the playing side, then how can it be best that he does that? It makes no sense.

I don't agree that there is a simple concept of "within budget". What we can afford to spend on a player that we are likely to be able to make a profit on in 3 years is very different to what we can afford to spend on a player we're going to be struggling to shift next summer.

You can't separate football and non-football decisions. It's perfectly coherent to say that Paratici and Nuno are right that Traore is the best player we can add for around £50m, but that there is also a very good chance that he won't be a guaranteed starter and could lose value massively.

Levy is responsible for the long-term success of the football club, and transfer strategy is a part of that, whether you like it or not. It is more likely than not that neither of Paratici or Nuno will be here in three years, so their perspective on what is a good transfer is inherently going to be more short-term than Levy's. It makes complete sense for Levy to have a say in who we buy, regardless of a hypothetical budget.

...also, I'm yet to here a good reason why keeping Kane is a business decision whereas buying Traore is a football decision. No doubt it is a dressed-up version of "the shirt sales alone will pay for him" wishful thinking.

Sorry, I honestly have no idea what point you're trying to make. None of what you've said seems to relate to anything I've said. Maybe I'm tired because it's Friday evening and I'm missing it completely.

I've already said it's impossible for him not to be involved in decisions because he sets the budget, signs the cheques.

Signing a player and deciding what wages we pay him is both a football and business decision, but the business is within the budget Levy sets for Paratici and Nuno.

bubble07 · Sep 5, 2021

Net spend of 31m this window. If you said that at the start of the window knowing we needed a big rebuild you would have thought we sold Kane

Delboy75 · Sep 5, 2021

bubble07 said:
Net spend of 31m this window. If you said that at the start of the window knowing we needed a big rebuild you would have thought we sold Kane

But if you include Romero and Gollini who are near enough certain buys it goes to near on 100m which puts us 2nd.

Yid-ol · Sep 5, 2021

Delboy75 said:
But if you include Romero and Gollini who are near enough certain buys it goes to near on 100m which puts us 2nd.

But then have you added in all other clubs potential loan to buy costs? Or just ours?

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