Ex-Manager watch: Antonio Conte

djhotspur · Nov 7, 2022

fishhhandaricecake said:
Couldn't disagree more, this is a very negative attitude imo and not looking at facts and recent history even.

Just look at the impact Kulu & Bentancur had when we signed them last January! But no it 'certainly won't happen in January'.

ITK has said he will be backed again in Jan.

In summer we started the re-build, we cleared out a lot of players mostly on loan and made 6 solid signings, if it wasn't for injuries our performances this season would on the whole have been better. We probably need about 6 more top players to be where we need to be, that can be done over 2 transfer windows and it could really transform us, just like when Liverpool were building under Klopp but until they got Allison and VVD they kept having big issues, we are similar whereby until we get a top class RWB, CB and one more top attacking option we will still have issues when the squad filler players have to play regularly. As Conte said a club like Tottenham at the moment cannot cope with many important injuries trying to play PL and CL each week in a congested fixture list.

Sure the form and performances aren't great lately but I fully trust what Conte is repeatedly saying in press conferences, why would we not trust a guy with his pedigree. The only concern I have is if he doesn't sign a new contract but as long as we continue to back him as he wants I think he will and from how he spoke yesterday it sounded to me like a man who is invested in this building process with Paratici and Tottenham and is urging the fans to give him time and patience and 2-3 more transfer windows.

Rome wasn't built in a day but we are actually building it right now with Antonio, have some faith that we will finish the job

I wouldn’t have even bothered responding to that person.
How can anyone say they transfers won’t sort out a number of problems…. It’s a hilarious take. If we bring in the right players next 2 windows, equivalent to Romero Benta Kulu quality at rwb,gk,lcb,ccb of course it would magically improve us. Look at what the right transfers have done for arsenal.

Trix · Nov 7, 2022

dudu said:
I'm honestly pretty chilled about where we are at the moment. If Conte remains backed by the club, which he has been so far, then we are in for a great ride.

I keep harping back to this but I honestly feel like Klopps start at Liverpool is the bar that we should be concerned about matching. He didn't finish top 4 for a few years.

Either people want to see us build a team that can challenge or they want to shit the bed every time we get to a tough part of the process and complain the whole time.

Yeah but should be where those clubs are but in far less time and with far less money, just because we are errm Tottenham.

Mark_147 · Nov 7, 2022

carpediem1906 said:
How about their 2nd seasons?

Pep 2nd season: 1st
Klopp 2nd season: 4th
Arteta 2nd season: 8th

Liverpool actually finished 8th in Klopps first season

PeeEyeEmPee · Nov 7, 2022

wrd said:
I think it depends on what we mean by challenging, by challenging I mean; I don't think we have what it takes to win the title but I think that our goal this season is to keep City honest by trying to be the team who gets closest to them or at least within a couple of points distance from 2nd. I felt this season we were likely to finish 3rd but possibly 2nd if Liverpool underperformed. That's what I mean by challenging for title, where you're closer to 1st than 4th.

Yep, this is what I was hoping for this season, being the team best placed to take advantage in the event of a poor season from City and/or Liverpool. I figured they can't keep on stringing 90+ point seasons together, and with this being a weird one due to the World Cup, then who knows. I expected this from Liverpool after being emotionally drained last season, and also with Mane leaving. City's squad looks thin to me as well, and I think they'd be up against it with the "wrong" injury at the wrong time. Pep is doing his best to try and get Grealish to look like a £100m footballer, but it isn't working, and I also think Mahrez is falling out of favour in much the same way Sane and Sterling did. I can see them starting to drop a bunch of points if any of Haaland, KDB or Foden were to miss 3 or 4 games here or there.

All of this is a long shot, of course, but yeah I was hoping we'd push on from the end of last season, and put ourselves in a position to be able to capitalise on any shockers from the other two.

Trix · Nov 7, 2022

PeeEyeEmPee said:
Yep, this is what I was hoping for this season, being the team best placed to take advantage in the event of a poor season from City and/or Liverpool. I figured they can't keep on stringing 90+ point seasons together, and with this being a weird one due to the World Cup, then who knows. I expected this from Liverpool after being emotionally drained last season, and also with Mane leaving. City's squad looks thin to me as well, and I think they'd be up against it with the "wrong" injury at the wrong time. Pep is doing his best to try and get Grealish to look like a £100m footballer, but it isn't working, and I also think Mahrez is falling out of favour in much the same way Sane and Sterling did. I can see them starting to drop a bunch of points if any of Haaland, KDB or Foden were to miss 3 or 4 games here or there.

All of this is a long shot, of course, but yeah I was hoping we'd push on from the end of last season, and put ourselves in a position to be able to capitalise on any shockers from the other two.

So basically your expectations were set incredibly high, based on what? Our financial power, or perhaps because we already had a squad full of world class players? Maybe you should have listened to Conte when he said at the start this wasn't going to happen overnight.

PeeEyeEmPee · Nov 7, 2022

Trix said:
So when you say teams on "our Level" what do you mean? Financially? or historical success perhaps? what are you judging our level to be, and what other clubs do you consider to be our level and why?

I'd have thought that was obvious. I'm referring to the teams that are in Europe and challenging for the Top 4. Yes, you can come up with any number of reasons why we shouldn't even be in the same conversation as any of them, and should be on our knees thanking God for 6th/7th place, but the simple fact is that for the last few years that's the level we've been at.

Trix · Nov 7, 2022

PeeEyeEmPee said:
I'd have thought that was obvious. I'm referring to the teams that are in Europe and challenging for the Top 4. Yes, you can come up with any number of reasons why we shouldn't even be in the same conversation as any of them, and should be on our knees thanking God for 6th/7th place, but the simple fact is that for the last few years that's the level we've been at.

Nah I'm not, I'm just stating obvious facts. I am yet to see anyone post legitimate reasons why we should be able to do what Liverpool have done in half the time with half the money. Like I said I think your expectations were set too high if you think we were going to get there in less than a year with one Summer window. And as for your point above we topped our CL group and are currently above 3 of the so called top 6, so to say we aren't competing with teams on our level is just not true. We are.

PeeEyeEmPee · Nov 7, 2022

Trix said:
So basically your expectations were set incredibly high, based on what? Our financial power, or perhaps because we already had a squad full of world class players? Maybe you should have listened to Conte when he said at the start this wasn't going to happen overnight.

If that's what you've taken from what I said, then you're either being a dick or can't read.

We finished last season very strongly, and I was expecting we'd be able to maintain that kind of form after adding several starting-quality players, and see what happened if either of the big two had an off year. Really lofty hopes, those...

PeeEyeEmPee · Nov 7, 2022

Trix said:
Nah I'm not, I'm just stating obvious facts. I am yet to see anyone post legitimate reasons why we should be able to do what Liverpool have done in half the time with half the money. Like I said I think your expectations were set too high if you think we were going to get there in less than a year with one Summer window. And as for your point above we topped our CL group and are currently above 3 of the so called top 6, so to say we aren't competing with teams on our level is just not true. We are.

You're arguing against your own straw men at this point, and deliberately misrepresenting my arguments, so is there really any point in us continuing this?

BH_spurs · Nov 7, 2022

Give the man time, at least another 2 windows. We need patience. Really can not be bothered starting another manager ‘project’ right now and I’m not sure the likes of Kane can either.

dudu · Nov 7, 2022

PeeEyeEmPee said:
If that's what you've taken from what I said, then you're either being a dick or can't read.

We finished last season very strongly, and I was expecting we'd be able to maintain that kind of form after adding several starting-quality players, and see what happened if either of the big two had an off year. Really lofty hopes, those...

Did you consider the following in line with your expectations?

1) Our finish last season was based around playing one game a week and having Son in what was the best form of his career.
2) It would take time for certain players to get up to speed?
3) Son would lose his Mojo?
4) Richarlison would get injured?

As far as I can tell we are still ahead of Liverpool and not entirely miles off city points-wise either, with a LOT of footie to play.

wrd · Nov 7, 2022

Trix said:
So basically your expectations were set incredibly high, based on what? Our financial power, or perhaps because we already had a squad full of world class players? Maybe you should have listened to Conte when he said at the start this wasn't going to happen overnight.

I don't think it's incredibly high is it really, it's not expecting to finish above either but in the event one of or by some minor miracle both suddenly fell of the wagon that we'd be best placed to take advantage. At the start of the season we had Chelsea with a switch of owners, a loss of important players and a big overhaul to an ageing squad to contend with, made poor purchases and that's before the Tuchel/Potter situation. United are rebuilding with a new manager from a significantly weaker position than we were. We have finished above Arsenal something like 4-5 times of the last seasons so I don't see how it's unrealistic to want to be the best placed team to challenge should City and Liverpool falter.

Surely the goal this season was to build on last season and be comfortably 3rd or more to the point, that we wouldn't be fighting until the last day of the season to secure top4, to try and be secure in our position. Arsenal have certainly benefitted from Arteta being longer into his process and fair play to them but Conte is a far more experienced manager dealing with high ambitions and we also play a more pragmatic style that prioritises points over performance. I don't see how that's incredibly high.

brasil_spur · Nov 7, 2022

PeeEyeEmPee said:
It's interesting that you've framed your question this way, as it suggests that the two are somehow mutually exclusive. But to answer it anyway, to me it means improved performances leading to better results. You're making a big deal about results, but against teams at or around our level we have almost none. So yes we're 4th, but who have we actually beaten? Southampton (18th), Wolves (19th), Forest (20th), Fulham (9th), Leicester (14th), Brighton (6th), Everton (16th), Bournemouth (17th). Contrast that with losing against Arsenal (1st), Newcastle (3rd), Man U (5th), Liverpool (8th) and drawing against West Ham (15th) and Chelsea (7th). One single point out of 15 against our fellow Top 4 contenders. These "results" aren't nearly as impressive as you're making out, and certainly aren't good enough to excuse what have for the most part been very poor performances. In fact, these are our poorest set of results against the teams around us in a while, so we ARE entitled to be doing better.

Defend Conte all you like - there's a lot that can be used to defend him - but please let's not pretend there isn't a lot of room for improvement with this collection of players. Yes the players need to do better, but so does he.

And yet despite all that we're still 4th. And to add further context - we've been Liverpool twice in the last 10 years (23 games). That's a not a fixture that we'd be expected to win. We've faired slightly better against Utd over that period, but Old Trafford and Conte don't go well together, so again not a massive worry to have lost that game on paper. Arsenal and Newcastle are both on massive form this season, so again not the worst results in the world.

Could we be playing better - absolutely, could we be winning more games - sure. But we are where we are and it's in a pretty good place IMO.

PeeEyeEmPee said:
This argument drives me mad. Just this calendar year alone, we've brought in SIX starting-quality players (Bentancur, Kulusevski, Perisic, Bissouma, Richarlison and Lenglet) that everyone agreed improved the squad. Add those to Romero, and then remove the dross such as Lamela, Alli, Sissoko, Reguillon, Winks, Lo Celso etc and it's a VERY different squad to that of previous years. Yes, some still remain, but what other team out there has changed an entire squad in that time?

It's not very different, it's a bit different. And whilst squad is great. only two of those from the list are proper first team starters. We are still heavily relying on the following players, with the dates they joined us in brackets for reference: Lloris (2012), Dier (2014), Davies (2014), Kane (Youth), and Son (2015). That's nearly 50% of our starting line-up for most games that are in their 8th, 9th, 10th or more seasons with us.

dudu said:
I'm honestly pretty chilled about where we are at the moment. If Conte remains backed by the club, which he has been so far, then we are in for a great ride.

I keep harping back to this but I honestly feel like Klopps start at Liverpool is the bar that we should be concerned about matching. He didn't finish top 4 for a few years.

Either people want to see us build a team that can challenge or they want to shit the bed every time we get to a tough part of the process and complain the whole time.

Winner, great post.

PCozzie said:
Feel the same. I know we want to end this trophy drought but I also want us to be regular competitiors at the top of the league for the next 20 years. We cant keep going through cycles of signing players that aren't up to it that we cant then shift, and sacking managers because they havent won a cup within 12 months (Nuno excepted, that was never going to end in silverware).

Another 1 or 2 players of Kulusevski/Bentancur standard in January and we are well placed to have a really good squad by the end of summer 23. After that we can go for the one world class player in the positions we need, as Liverpool did with Van Dyke and Allison that totally transformed them from Top 4 challengers to title winners.

Also a winner, this is exactly what we need to do.

PeeEyeEmPee said:
Yep, this is what I was hoping for this season, being the team best placed to take advantage in the event of a poor season from City and/or Liverpool. I figured they can't keep on stringing 90+ point seasons together, and with this being a weird one due to the World Cup, then who knows. I expected this from Liverpool after being emotionally drained last season, and also with Mane leaving. City's squad looks thin to me as well, and I think they'd be up against it with the "wrong" injury at the wrong time. Pep is doing his best to try and get Grealish to look like a £100m footballer, but it isn't working, and I also think Mahrez is falling out of favour in much the same way Sane and Sterling did. I can see them starting to drop a bunch of points if any of Haaland, KDB or Foden were to miss 3 or 4 games here or there.

All of this is a long shot, of course, but yeah I was hoping we'd push on from the end of last season, and put ourselves in a position to be able to capitalise on any shockers from the other two.

LOL at City's squad looking thing - it always does, but when you have Haaland in there it really makes no difference, they could have a squad of 15 and as long as he's fit then they're winning games.

At the moment Arsenal are on a better run than their invincibles season in terms of points to date, City are looking more dangerous than ever. Spurs and then fully at the top of the pack in the rest of the league.

Albertbarich · Nov 7, 2022

BH_spurs said:
Give the man time, at least another 2 windows. We need patience. Really can not be bothered starting another manager ‘project’ right now and I’m not sure the likes of Kane can either.

Will he give himself that much time.

Be nice if he signed the new deal.

PeeEyeEmPee · Nov 7, 2022

dudu said:
Did you consider the following in line with your expectations?

1) Our finish last season was based around playing one game a week and having Son in what was the best form of his career.
2) It would take time for certain players to get up to speed?
3) Son would lose his Mojo?
4) Richarlison would get injured?

As far as I can tell we are still ahead of Liverpool and not entirely miles off city points-wise either, with a LOT of footie to play.

Cool, so let's just grasp for all the reasons why it's NOT possible to reproduce last season's second-half performances and form, and pretend there aren't any reasons why we could do. Gotcha.

brasil_spur · Nov 7, 2022

Albertbarich said:
Will he give himself that much time.

Be nice if he signed the new deal.

You know there's already a 1 year extension option in his contract right?

PeeEyeEmPee · Nov 7, 2022

brasil_spur said:
And yet despite all that we're still 4th. And to add further context - we've been Liverpool twice in the last 10 years (23 games). That's a not a fixture that we'd be expected to win. We've faired slightly better against Utd over that period, but Old Trafford and Conte don't go well together, so again not a massive worry to have lost that game on paper. Arsenal and Newcastle are both on massive form this season, so again not the worst results in the world.

Could we be playing better - absolutely, could we be winning more games - sure. But we are where we are and it's in a pretty good place IMO.

It's not very different, it's a bit different. And whilst squad is great. only two of those from the list are proper first team starters. We are still heavily relying on the following players, with the dates they joined us in brackets for reference: Lloris (2012), Dier (2014), Davies (2014), Kane (Youth), and Son (2015). That's nearly 50% of our starting line-up for most games that are in their 8th, 9th, 10th or more seasons with us.

LOL at City's squad looking thing - it always does, but when you have Haaland in there it really makes no difference, they could have a squad of 15 and as long as he's fit then they're winning games.

At the moment Arsenal are on a better run than their invincibles season in terms of points to date, City are looking more dangerous than ever. Spurs and then fully at the top of the pack in the rest of the league.

You're doing the same thing the others are, and looking for all the reasons we can't possibly expect better. If you're not going to balance them against the many reasons we have to expect better, then its a disingenuous argument. Yes we've only beaten Liverpool twice in 10 years, but that doesn't mean we couldn't have beaten them yesterday. Yes, we don't win at Old Trafford that often, but it doesn't mean we couldn't have avoided putting in one of our worst performances of the last few years.

I maintain it's a very different team and squad. Of the names you've listed, one is a still very serviceable if erratic goalkeeper, and two are named Kane and Son. So Dier and Davies are really the only glaring names, and we've bought in the likes of Romero and Lenglet to improve our defence. These (along with our other purchases) are the type options previous managers never had, so just blindly repeating it's the same squad of players not being good enough all these years doesn't quite add up, to me anyway.

I'm happy to be wrong re City. My point isn't really about them though. It was more hoping we'd be better than we've shown so far. And before you just throw the Top 4 response back at me, by better I mean a) actually playing better in games and b) our performances and results against teams at our level (which I'm hoping I don't have to define yet again)

HildoSpur · Nov 7, 2022

PeeEyeEmPee said:
Yep, this is what I was hoping for this season, being the team best placed to take advantage in the event of a poor season from City and/or Liverpool. I figured they can't keep on stringing 90+ point seasons together, and with this being a weird one due to the World Cup, then who knows. I expected this from Liverpool after being emotionally drained last season, and also with Mane leaving. City's squad looks thin to me as well, and I think they'd be up against it with the "wrong" injury at the wrong time. Pep is doing his best to try and get Grealish to look like a £100m footballer, but it isn't working, and I also think Mahrez is falling out of favour in much the same way Sane and Sterling did. I can see them starting to drop a bunch of points if any of Haaland, KDB or Foden were to miss 3 or 4 games here or there.

All of this is a long shot, of course, but yeah I was hoping we'd push on from the end of last season, and put ourselves in a position to be able to capitalise on any shockers from the other two.

Wow you really over rate our squad huh. You look at City's squad and think they are thin. What do you think when you look at our squad?

Teegart · Nov 7, 2022

JCRD said:
Im trying not to post to suit my agenda as I appreciate it can come across like that but our players whilst can look nervy - are we saying theyre better when there is to lose? i.e. when we are losing already because they play a lot better when a) we are behind ad b) in the second halves.

So surely to address the issue is to play from the start the way we play in the second half? I mean if something is not working but something else is working - do you not play in that way? Our players are more comfortable playing on the half way line than in their 18 yard box.

I honestly don’t think Conte asks them to essentially play scared in the first half. I think the players we have that are, imo, weaker mentally, are mostly defenders and wing backs. I don’t think there is any surprise that their “go to” is to retreat.

Take the first goal yesterday, all 3 CBs were so busy rushing backwards rather than trying to engage that Liverpool ended up in our box for an easy shot. That’s subconscious on those players parts, to retreat. The difference is when we are behind they have to take more risks to get back in it. They are forced to play the way Conte wants them to.

My honest opinion, and it’s just a guess like anyone else, is that Conte asks them to be resolute and hard to beat in the opening 20 mins, especially to conserve energy in this horrid game every 3 days run we’ve had. Unfortunately, some of our players natural reactions to being asked that is to back off and sit deeper as they beleive they have a better chance at not conceding with less space behind them. That’s my honest take on it.

We won’t know for sure until Conte gets more of “his” players in, but I’d bet that with a new CB or two and a better RWB, we’d not be so poor in the first half of games.

PeeEyeEmPee · Nov 7, 2022

HildoSpur said:
Wow you really over rate our squad huh. You look at City's squad and think they are thin. What do you think when you look at our squad?

It's just an opinion, and I wasn't making a comparison between theirs and ours. I'm just giving my reasons for why I think there's a chance they could come back to the pack with a couple of injuries. The point I'm actually making is that I was hoping we could maintain or improve the level of the second half of last season, and that's what I'm judging our performances and results so far this season against. Fair play to you guys though who knew that us continuing to improve was a ludicrously-optimistic and entitled thing to hope for.

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