Ex-Manager watch: Antonio Conte

Hotspur88 said:

Well this week is pivotal for all invovled. If you see movement with transfers then you can assume Conte has been given assurances. But if he is to walk, I would guess we will hear something over the next couple of days as he won't be strung along. This is my opinion only, but I think he will stay.

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And this is the thing isn't it. We can't.

Signings aren't aligning. See Spence.

Albertbarich said:

Except the 3 years we didn't finish top four were just previous to Conte being here, during which we went through 2 managers and a prolonged caretaker manager. And one of those involved the most embarrassing manager search in history ( seriously has any club made such a pigs ear of it, ever?)

So in recent history we have been consistently shit until Conte arrived and dragged half a season of performances out when we only had one competition to compete in.

As a Spurs fan do you really wanna go through this again? Surely by now even the most die hard ENIC supporters knows that whoever comes in won't be backed

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I'm a spurs supporter. Not an ENIC supporter. I want to watch my team play good football and have that most precious thing, hope, that we might win something. At the moment we are hopeless and Conte is hapless!

FinnYid said:

And next season it was won by journeyman manager with Juventus finishing 4th. Juventus finished also 4th on season Conte won suggesting rather bad slump on behalf of Juventus. Seems like it will be Napoli this time around (also with a journeyman manager) with NDombele winning the title.

Oh and serial winner Mourinho is sitting 7th on the table. But at least his cup pedigree won that new Uefa Conference League.

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How many titles have we won? Until then we can't comment on managers that are actually out there winning things.

As always, you have answers for everything.

Can't give the credit where it's due because it diminishes your argument that he isn't good enough for us or that his style doesn't work.

mpickard2087 said:

I'm going out for the day after this reply, but sorry lads these replies, and the wider posts being made in this thread my a large number of people, are just more obfuscation to me.

Let me be clear. I'd do about 99% of things differently if I was running the club. I rate and would want to keep about 3 of our players if I was in charge. I think we have an appalling lack of qualities in the squad. Speed, technique, tactical brains, you name it. I've spent years criticising aspects of how the football club operates (and, I have to say, distinctly remember being in the minority a lot of time; on issues that most fans who slag off various decisions now were all for at the time......). Despite all of that and all those issues, I still expect the football team to be able to knock consecutive passes about with some hint of demonstrable plan and structure as to how we're going about our work and how we're trying to break teams down. To have zero coached identity is not on, it's a total dereliction and it's (currently) failure. I'd expect to see something identifiable from a manager plucked from non-league, I definitely expect it from Champions League, creme de la creme, Conte.

I say again, a lot of posters puff out their chest and like to talk a good loud game about acting like a big club, having big standards, blah blah blah. And will jump in two footed on not spending enough money, Levy/ENIC, some of the more obvious whipping boy players, and give us chapter and verse on all that is wrong on these aspects...... Yet their bollocks quickly shrivel up and get all deferential to the great Conte and he can do no wrong and there's a million reasons why - none his fault of course - we can't string 5 passes together or look like we have any tactical game. Maybe some just don't care for, or get/understand this aspect of football, there are a lot though who I genuinely think just seem scared to say anything about him as he's been placed on such a pedestal for their hopes/dreams and as if going against him in the slightest way is them being a bad fan.

There's many separate issues currently at the club. But despite them, zero coached identity and ethos is totally on him and his cross to bear. And it's ok to say so and admit he's not doing good enough at the moment, and not dance around it as most do. Be brave chaps!

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Lot to unpack here and you likely won't respond as you're going out so no point going in-depth.

The point in Conte for me was always to call the board out on their shit.

I said yesterday numerous times he looks finished. I think the players have cottoned on to this contract situation and as players often do aren't playing for him.

Poch is my favourite ever Spurs manager so a part of me is desperate for his return but here's the thing when he comes back I'm in zero doubt the lack of planning will continue, the lack of ambition will continue and we will all be having a similar debate in a few months time.

Our problems don't start or end with Antonio Conte so calling for his departure is like begging a nurse for a paracetamol when you're having a heart attack.

I think the fact we are having the same two debates we had under end of days Poch, Jose and Conte which are; Is it the manager or the board, Do we want entertaining football or successful means that we keep looking at the problem incorrectly.

I think the issue isn't the manager or their style of football. It's that the fans and the board are simply unwilling to accept that in order to get to whatever it is we think we want, that things have to get worse before they get better, that we are too afraid to go through the painful process of that, we are impatient and want immediate gratification because we think we have suffered enough and we are owed some success now.

The evidence though would suggest that we have ended up making the process last longer, more painful in our desire to rush the process. We also are so scared of going through the painful process that we are too unafraid to let go of the other side of things. We hire Conte yet we are too scared to let go off our transfer policy. We back Poch but we are too afraid because he said it will take years to rebuild so we sack him and hire a manager who says he'll get it done quickly.

At what point do we realise that jumping from one extreme to the next is just delaying success further, that we are foolishly thinking we are wasting time if we stick through a painful period yet when you look at other clubs. Liverpool, seemingly Arsenal. They tolerated the growing pains, they tolerated the shouts from impatient fans and certainly Liverpool have been rewarded. Klopp has had 3 tough periods at Liverpool, when he started, just after their big success and earlier this season. With the latter 2, he was doing significantly worse than Poch was, do we think we'd have kept our nerve and been rewarded for doing so? Do we think our club would have tolerated those first few seasons under Arteta to get to what Arsenal are currently doing, their performances were awful to watch but Arteta stuck to his guns now their performances are superb, you learn most from your rivals.

I've made no secret that I absolutely adore Poch, that I felt he shouldn't have been sacked, that he should have been allowed a down season to recover from the champions league and we go again. That I wanted him back after Jose because I love the romanticism of him being the guy to lead us to the promise land. So it probably wouldn't be that hard for me to get over losing Conte if Poch returned, however I am absolutely adamant that if we for once just stuck with a manager through the hard times and took the risk of backing him despite fears of letting go off our policies and we actually allowed the man to feel safe and trusted in his process then we would get a team that is not only successful but is entertaining in it's own right, maybe not in the style of a Harry or Poch team but in it's own manner. I think us fans are unwilling to tolerate what that would entail though to get there though and it is us who will suffer the consequences in my opinion.

nedley said:

And this is the thing isn't it. We can't.

Signings aren't aligning. See Spence.

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Nothing wrong with the Spence signing as long as it comes along with ready to play now PL quality players.

People talk like a conte is an elite coach, but his downfall has been his ability to manage a team who plays every 3-4 days. His record in cup competitions and Europe is not that impressive.

he admitted himself last season he only had league to think about and got us into top 4.

this season his use and management of our squad has been poor, he does not seem to be able to keep the whole squad engaged and prepared to play when needed. Soon as we lose one or two players if starts to fall apart!

He also lacks ability to be flexible and change a game with tactical switches.

I am tired of his predictable patterns of play and I am certain some players are too.

The ridiculous fitness training in summer has to be questioned, players collapsing and vomiting can not be to e benefit of an elite athlete. Over training leads to muscle injuries and a dip in perfomance.

conte is to old school for me, I want a dynamic thinking and exciting manager

mpickard2087 said:

(Very last reply)

You say that, but then count the number of "what more can Conte do?" posts that get made in here. Often by the well-known posters and backed up with tons of agrees and winners. If that's not pedestalling and absolving all blame I don't know what is(?).

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That's totally different from what you said in your massive rant though isn't it. You can support the manager while also being critical of him. It's not a black and white situation. Also making juvenile comments about people needing balls to support your own opinion can fuck right off.

C-oops said:

He doesn't have the right players for the way he wants to play, but to say the squad is bang average is nonsense. Plenty of other managers would get a tune out of them and have us playing better than the dross currently being served up.

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Not to compete for Top 4 consistently or - dare I say - compete for a title.

- We only have 4 or 5 players who consistently hit top level performances for us: Kane, Kulusevski, Cuti, Bentancur and Son (who's seemingly gone off the boil). They cannot drag us through the mud twice a week for an entire season. It's not possible, especially when you account for injuries, fatigue and loss of form.

- There's then Richy and Bissouma who are good prem players but need a bit more time to settle with us before seeing if they can do it consistently at a bigger club.

- There's a crop of around 4 or 5 21/22 yo's of which none have yet shown themselves to be worthy of regular playing time at a club that wants champions league football.

- The rest, which accounts for around half the playing squad, is 100% bang average - and I'm including Lloris and PEH in this category. 6 of those are regular starters.

It's not good enough. Never was.

Chicken and egg isnt it? Why would you back a manager with big money when he may well walk off into the sunset in 5 months? Even as a player, are you going to commit to spurs for 3-5 years now not knowing what manager you will be playing under next season?

Conte also needs to shit or get off the pot. Sign a new contract, or tell Levy he won't be signing one. We are in a bit of limbo at the moment.

parklane yid said:

conte is to old school for me, I want a dynamic thinking and exciting manager

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Fair enough. But what do we do when he isn't backed and the football regresses?

Just get the transfer window started so we can start sorting out the problems

Trix said:

No but what they have had is 3 years of rebuilding and stability under a project manager that most of their fans have been calling out for two seasons as not good enough. As I keep saying it's one way or the other and currently we are doing neither.

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That’s right, but our paths as a club and profile of managers are night and day at the moment, do we really see Conte here in another 2-3 years? we’re rebuilding a side in the image of a man who plays a very particular way who may not even be around by the time we have got through the amount of transfer windows needed to get to the level he needs.

It’s either get the side built in 1-2 windows (which is not realistic) or go back to the drawing board.

one thing which is correct is we cannot keep jumping from one philosophy to the other and that lies solely at the feet of the board.

-Afri-Coy- said:

How many titles have we won? Until then we can't comment on managers that are actually out there winning things.

As always, you have answers for everything.

Can't give the credit where it's due because it diminishes your argument that he isn't good enough for us or that his style doesn't work.

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You can definitely argue that his style ISN'T working though!

walworthyid said:

You can definitely argue that his style ISN'T working though!

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I wouldn't call what we've been seeing his style though.

I would call that bang average players showing their weaknesses and mentality that we've seen before under different managers.

-Afri-Coy- said:

I wouldn't call what we've been seeing his style though.

I would call that bang average players showing their weaknesses and mentality that we've seen before under different managers.

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But surely it is within his remit to find a happy medium, you aren’t going to win titles with this squad but you also shouldn’t be getting outplayed and rolled over by teams every week.

We haven’t beaten 1 half decent side all year.

Get a manager (Conte or whoever) who can get us playing decent football. Add quality along the way through good scouting and not seeking the cheap option, or square peg for round hole.

Consolidate and grow by constant refreshing, continually seeking to replace those considered weakest in the squad.

Why should this be so hard.

I can take a few losses if it looked at least like we had a bit about us, a few unlucky results after good performances, but we've been pretty dire to watch for vast periods for a few seasons now.

Struggling with the basics from top to bottom.

IfiHadTheWings said:

That’s right, but our paths as a club and profile of managers are night and day at the moment, do we really see Conte here in another 2-3 years? we’re rebuilding a side in the image of a man who plays a very particular way who may not even be around by the time we have got through the amount of transfer windows needed to get to the level he needs.

It’s either get the side built in 1-2 windows (which is not realistic) or go back to the drawing board.

one thing which is correct is we cannot keep jumping from one philosophy to the other and that lies solely at the feet of the board.

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As I've said he was talking about a longer contract until the terms were changed......

IfiHadTheWings said:

But surely it is within his remit to find a happy medium, you aren’t going to win titles with this squad but you also shouldn’t be getting outplayed and rolled over by teams every week.

We haven’t beaten 1 half decent side all year.

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Teams that get outplayed and rolled over aren't in 5th place with 17 games played and only 2 points off top 4. Which should be our aim given the quality at hand.

I'm literally just going to post this as a response from now on, when it changes, I'll take these kind of arguments seriously. Results are all that matters.

Trix said:

As I've said he was talking about a longer contract until the terms were changed......

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That is Levy to a tee, but i can’t say i’d be confident of Antonio seeing out a 3-5 year contract could you? it all feels very here and now especially with the ages of Son & Kane.