Ex-Manager watch: Antonio Conte

Rout-Ledge · Jan 4, 2023

chas vs dave said:
The champions league run was a complete fluke, let's be honest. It papered over the cracks.

You don’t fluke your way to a champions league final. Doesn’t happen. You play a number of the best sides in the world, twice each. Look at every team in the last twenty years that’s reached a CL final. Every single one was a very good side who reached the final on merit.

Spursfan1414 · Jan 4, 2023

-Afri-Coy- said:
Conte hasn’t once said he wouldn’t see out his current contract, we were negotiating for an extension which means after the current 6(18) months. We can all see he loves the clubs itself.

1000x better would imply we are fighting for our lives in the bottom ten, which we aren’t. Could we be performing better? Ofcourse. Literally no one has denied that? All we are saying is that the current form falls at the feet of both Conte AND the players.

The quality of half of our squad has been horrid for a while now. That’s something you are in clear denial about.

“He‘s had plenty of backing” isn’t true either. If anything we’ve spent enough to keep up with our rivals. Granted we know what to expect from our club, genuinely backing Conte is going to take more than just two windows because of how bad the squad he inherited was. I really hope you will consider how bad it was before, and be realistic about how long it’s going to take to rectify those issues.

Keep into consideration that Conte is that good of a manager, he managed to get the same team that is playing relegation form football, into the top 4 last season when it would equate to a miracle for us to get there when he signed up. That’s all the evidence we need to know he deserves to be backed. If we had kept up that form up until now, we would be the title contenders.

Yes we signed players in the summer, we needed these players regardless. None of them have hit the ground running, we’ve only seen flashes so far. That’s to be expected from new players. Sometimes they hit the ground running, sometimes they don’t.

We are all asking for more from the squad and Conte, we are just not in delusion about the quality of a large part of the squad. 3-4 higher quality upgrades and NOT just replacements and our squad looks much better.

After that, we can start to blame Conte if things look bad. He’s barely been here for over a year. Half of that was brilliant, this season hasn’t been too great but we are still close enough that we will be in the CL if we turn things around.

Have you watched us recently? We spent 80% of games struggling against the bottom 10 this season.

He’s been backed enough that we should be playing far better than we have been. That’s the reality. We aren’t asking for the title, we’re asking to compete for top 4 and right now our performances look a million miles away from that.

You’ve got it backwards. The fact we were great last season and have gone so far backwards despite a transfer window that clearly left the squad far stronger is a serious concern. The players haven’t all suddenly got much worse than last season, it’s that there’s a serious tactical issue that’s being exploited consistently.

Our shit performances haven’t gone out of nowhere. We’ve been bailed out this season by set pieces and 20 minute spells where the opposition tires enough to let us play. Now results are finally catching up with performances. You can point to the league table position, but we’re not going to finish anywhere near there if we don’t start playing much, much better.

PLTuck · Jan 4, 2023

Signings or lack of / 'backing' don't explain the cliff that Son's form has walked off. Bloke looks like he has the weight of the world on his shoulders. This was the happiest man in football for years!

They don't explain how Bissouma's brother kicked Yves out the car halfway round the M25 and is playing a joke on us all.

It doesn't explain why Spence can't get a game, despite looking good when he's come on.

Yes we need investment.

But I'm not having that this is some terrible relegation fodder squad that dear saviour is performing miracles with. He has to take some of the responsibility. Levy doesn;t pick the team, set up the gameplan or talk tactics with players. Levy isn't coaching them on the trainng pitch.

Wick3d · Jan 4, 2023

I swear every press conference with Conte; the journalists ask the same questions. Always harping on about when he will leave :LOL:

Nothing he has said post-Villa game is new. He has been banging out the same lines since day 1.

-Afri-Coy- · Jan 4, 2023

GutBucket said:
We can sign 10 first team players and Conte will still struggle when he has CL to contend with. If we finish mid table this year it's the best time to keep him actually.

Another common misconception

During the 19/20 season, his first with Inter, he placed -

League - 2nd
CL - Group stage 3rd
Italia Cup - Semi-Final
Europa - Final

the following season

League - Champions
CL - Group Stage
Cup - Semi-Final

He doesn’t need one game a week to be a good manager, he can do it playing in Europe too.

Rout-Ledge · Jan 4, 2023

Wick3d said:
I swear every press conference with Conte; the journalists ask the same questions. Always harping on about when he will leave Nothing he has said post-Villa game is new. He has been banging out the same lines since day 1.

It will be this way - and will only intensify - until a contract is signed or a statement of departure is made. If I was a journo I’d be asking the same question.

GutBucket · Jan 4, 2023

-Afri-Coy- said:
Another common misconception

During the 19/20 season, his first with Inter, he placed -

League - 2nd
CL - Group stage 3rd
Italia Cup - Semi-Final
Europa - Final

the following season

League - Champions
CL - Group Stage
Cup - Semi-Final

He doesn’t need one game a week to be a good manager, he can do it playing in Europe too.

Nah, a lot easier to do it in other leagues where players don't have to run as much. Zoran Mamic won the league with Dinamo Zagreb while in prison while beating us in Europa League. The one time he was the best in this league is when Chelsea didn't have CL.

HildoSpur · Jan 4, 2023

The Scarecrow said:
Six months ago is highly relevant. Would you say Newcastle have a better squad than us? I wouldn't, even though they're way better than us at the moment.
For Arsenal, it's more of a toss up, but I'd argue that most of the players you mentioned would look as bad as our players if they were to play for us tonight.

My point is, you can't gauge the quality of a squad based on performances over a six month period. Arsenal are a well coached side and that makes them better than the sum of their individual parts. We're a poorly coached side, and that makes us worse than the sum of our individual parts.
And in this thread, that is used a stick to beat Levy and the owners with, and as an excuse for Conte. Which is why I'm very interested in hearing your thoughts from six months ago.

Based on the performances of us and Arsenal last season, most of us were confident that we had a better squad than Arsenal, and most of us would barely have any of their players in our XI. And that was absolutely fair. But today the tables have turned. How can that be down to the quality of the squads and not the quality of the coaching?

Newcastle have a better team than us - we have a few individuals that would get in most teams in the league but outside of them mostly what we have is bottom of the Premier league standard. Their defence is miles better than ours for a start.

-Afri-Coy- · Jan 4, 2023

Spursfan1414 said:
Have you watched us recently? We spent 80% of games struggling against the bottom 10 this season.

He’s been backed enough that we should be playing far better than we have been. That’s the reality. We aren’t asking for the title, we’re asking to compete for top 4 and right now our performances look a million miles away from that.

You’ve got it backwards. The fact we were great last season and have gone so far backwards despite a transfer window that clearly left the squad far stronger is a serious concern. The players haven’t all suddenly got much worse than last season, it’s that there’s a serious tactical issue that’s being exploited consistently.

Our shit performances haven’t gone out of nowhere. We’ve been bailed out this season by set pieces and 20 minute spells where the opposition tires enough to let us play. Now results are finally catching up with performances. You can point to the league table position, but we’re not going to finish anywhere near there if we don’t start playing much, much better.

This just makes it clear we have a difference of opinion but come to the same conclusion.

I’ll stop responding to your messages not to be rude but to avoid the merry-go-round for now.

But I’m happy to pick it up after the next 10 games and see where we are then.

Sophos151 · Jan 4, 2023

HildoSpur said:
Newcastle have a better team than us - we have a few individuals that would get in most teams in the league but outside of them mostly what we have is bottom of the league standard.

Genuinely the most absurd take I've read on here, ever. Who would actually start for us, out of that Newcastle team? Botman and Trippier?

Timberwolf · Jan 4, 2023

Rout-Ledge said:
You don’t fluke your way to a champions league final. Doesn’t happen. You play a number of the best sides in the world, twice each. Look at every team in the last twenty years that’s reached a CL final. Every single one was a very side who reached the final on merit.

Nah, you can definitely get the rub of the green in cup competitions - it's not like a league where the cream always rises to the to top and you do get the occasional team that gets to the final with a lucky draw and a few freak matches.

Chelsea were nowhere near the best team when they won it the first time and hugely benefitted from multiple missed penalties by world class players and other crazy moments that all went in their favour. And for our run if we replayed the Ajax and City ties with those same line-ups 100 times, I think we probably only get through both about 5 times - it didn't feel like we were the better side in any of the 4 matches, but we took our chances and ground it out.

I suppose you can never say a team doesn't deserve it since...they won a bunch of matches and got there on merit as you say, but cups are way more subject to freak results, individual refereeing mistakes, and one-off madness than leagues so I don't buy the idea that there isn't a big element of luck sometimes. The best and most deserving teams don't always go through.

FinnYid · Jan 4, 2023

hamsup_sotong said:
Some of us are desperate to win.

Actually so is Levy and that's why we are a mess and Arsenal is not. They aim to be best they can on the long run on given resources whereas we seek constantly quick fix to success by appointing unsuitable "proven winners" to bring silverware.

-Afri-Coy- · Jan 4, 2023

GutBucket said:
Nah, a lot easier to do it in other leagues where players don't have to run as much. Zoran Mamic won the league with Dinamo Zagreb while in prison while beating us in Europa League. The one time he was the best in this league is when Chelsea didn't have CL.

This is always the cop out when it comes to PL vs any other league in Europe. I get it, the PL is the “best” but in reality it’s not that far of a gap as you may think.

“Players don’t have to run as much”

Look where the PL is, rock bottom.

HildoSpur · Jan 4, 2023

Sophos151 said:
Genuinely the most absurd take I've read on here, ever. Who would actually start for us, out of that Newcastle team? Botman and Trippier?

Joelinton, Wilson, Trippier, Botman, ASM, Pope, Bruno all get into our first 11 in my opinion on current form. Our squad is so poor I'm surprised more people don't acknowledge it.

TOLBINY · Jan 4, 2023

City, Liverpool, Chelsea and Utd have better squads than ours, Woolwich we can debate (I think their defence is better and midfield more creative). On that basis we should be 5th or 6th in the league. So Conte is doing no better or worse than we should expect. The thing is we all want to do better than expected and when you see the likes of Arteta, Howe and Frank currently over-performing in terms of their squads - understandably some fans get more agitated.

This is then compounded by the fact that two of those squads (Liverpool and Chelsea) are currently under-performing and below us in the league.

Our defending, style of play and results are all well below expectations, I think if we were more solid defensively and played a more attacking brand of football, fans would have cause for optimism even if we were in exactly the same league position, which as I state above, is more or less where we should be in terms of our squad.

I don't necessarily expect Conte to adopt an all out attack style of play, but the one thing that I think we can be fairly critical of is the number of goals we are conceding. I accept the defenders we have are not great but Eddie Howe has turned Trippier, Botman, Schar and Burn into the best defence in the league - I think Conte should be doing better in this regard.

PLTuck · Jan 4, 2023

Sophos151 said:
Genuinely the most absurd take I've read on here, ever. Who would actually start for us, out of that Newcastle team? Botman and Trippier?

I was just thinking when reading the post you replied to, is it better players or a better coached team with everyone on board with a clear plan?

Right now I'd say they are better managed, not better players.

GutBucket · Jan 4, 2023

-Afri-Coy- said:
This is always the cop out when it comes to PL vs any other league in Europe. I get it, the PL is the “best” but in reality it’s not that far of a gap as you may think.

Just compare Perisic from last season and this one, gap isn't huge but it's big enough, especially when it comes to fitness. Especially for Conte, even last year without CL he was much better when he had 5+ days to prepare.

HildoSpur · Jan 4, 2023

PLTuck said:
I was just thinking when reading the post you replied to, is it better players or a better coached team with everyone on board with a clear plan?

Right now I'd say they are better managed, not better players.

I genuinely think most of our squad is absolute shite. I really do.

parj · Jan 4, 2023

Rout-Ledge said:
You don’t fluke your way to a champions league final. Doesn’t happen. You play a number of the best sides in the world, twice each. Look at every team in the last twenty years that’s reached a CL final. Every single one was a very good side who reached the final on merit.

Some people just want to destroy Pochs legacy to give the Conte arguments more credibility.

0-Tibsy-0 · Jan 4, 2023

HildoSpur said:
Joelinton, Wilson, Trippier, Botman, ASM, Pope, Bruno all get into our first 11 in my opinion on current form. Our squad is so poor I'm surprised more people don't acknowledge it.

Current form in this case is, to a very large degree, down to tactics and man management.

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