Ex-Manager watch: Antonio Conte

TOLBINY · Feb 17, 2023

piedpiper said:
Like your past.... but he needs a ready made team.... nothing in this season has shown me we going forward that I can have optimism that next season will be better...we saw it in Poch's final 12 months, under Jose and now under Conte. He is an elite team manager...we not an elite team.

Like the ready made elite Juventus that finished 7th and 7th the two seasons before he arrived and won the league?
Or the ready made elite Inter Milan that finished anywhere between 4th and 9th the eight years before he arrived and turned them into champions?

Your opinion is not supported by the facts.

spurs mental · Feb 17, 2023

DanielJohnCosta said:
considering the amount they spent on who they spent I'd argue he commissioned a majority of them. I believe it was more that they didn't give him even more backing, which for Chelsea says a lot about who else he probably wanted

Man, you are so blinkered by your hate and bias you're avoiding actual facts. There is no way he wanted or commissioned signing Danny Drinkwater and Bakoyoko along with Ross Barkley for a combined 100m +.

He wanted Alex Sandro or Perisic, Bonucci or Van Dijk and was given Zappacosta and had to use Christensen at CB when he returned from being on loan. The players he wanted were marginally older and that's why Chelsea refused to back him.

He had little say in transfers at Chelsea, and his quote about it being the club will decide rings familiar at Spurs too.

Nick-TopSpursMan · Feb 17, 2023

olliec said:
He finished 5th before he was sacked. Not exactly a huge fail and had the highest win % of any manager Chelsea have had.

During the 2016-17 campaign, Conte achieved 30 league wins which was a record until Manchester City won 32 league games in the next season.
His stint at Chelsea saw him achieve a 67.1% win percentage which has only been bettered by Pep Guardiola’s 72.8% in the premier league.

Why can’t people actually see that this guy is the real deal. I think if we knew 100% he was staying I’m pretty sure the majority would pick Conte over Poch. I’m just going to hope and pray that these are all rumours and that he’s ready to commit.

I love Conte and his passion. It’s true he hasn’t been well as of late which is why he’s been so quiet on the touch line, but let’s see his energy once he’s fully recovered.

2 things about his time at Chelsea.

1. Yes they had finished midtable the season before but everyone forgets the majority of that team won the league in the season before that under Mourinho (14/15). Chelsea players are just mercenaries, they decided to down tools in 15/16 and were ready to go again for a new manager in 16/17. So while he inherited a team of mercenaries and deserves credit for motivating them again, they were already title winners.

2. He managed Chelsea when they had no European football for the first time in 20 odd years. He was able to play the same team game in, game out with no real fatigue. This is the only reason they won the title instead of us. We had fatigue due to European football and the fact we lacked squad depth.

G Ron · Feb 17, 2023

DanielJohnCosta said:
if you're looking for a perfect manager I've got bad news for you. This is what Levy tried to do after Poch, he went after two of the biggest names in world football for managers. Both have failed. Sometimes you don't know what you've got until it's gone, pochettino was that man

I didn’t mention managers being perfect as I know that’s not possible. I just mentioned some of the flaws of Poch which many on here are using as a stick to beat Conte with.

We went on a great journey with Poch with one of the best squads assembled in my lifetime, but let’s not pretend the squad hasn’t been allowed to stagnate since he left and is now far weaker. Every good team is built on defensive stability and we’ve not had that since peak Poch.

it’s a little harsh to compare the achievements of the managers we’ve had since as the squad is way weaker now and the defence has been shot since we lost Walker, Rose, Jan and Toby. I’m sure Conte would’ve loved the opportunity to work with that defence (particularly those flying wing backs) and Moussa screening them

You’re quick to tell us all that Poch is the man, but I’m just saying I have my reservations as we’re a different animal now and the squad still needs a serious overhaul.

piedpiper · Feb 17, 2023

mr ashley said:
What poch did for us was miraculous. The only thing more miraculous in recent times was ranieri getting Leicester to win the league. Sadly they coincided otherwise we’d have won the league.
contes achievement last season was impressive too (but obviously not to the same extent).
The question I have for all those poch -in people is this: who/what broke him?
Was it the transfer/rebuild saga?
Was it the constant battle with levy?

If so, what’s changed?

Same as is now happening to Liverpool that high press high tempo style of play takes its toll on the players you need to keep tweaking the squad.

mr ashley · Feb 17, 2023

piedpiper said:
Same as is now happening to Liverpool that high press high tempo style of play takes its toll on the players you need to keep tweaking the squad.

Ah ok so the thing we need is a manager who is good with recruitment and the support from the owner to buy those players

piedpiper · Feb 17, 2023

TOLBINY said:
Like the ready made elite Juventus that finished 7th and 7th the two seasons before he arrived and won the league?
Or the ready made elite Inter Milan that finished anywhere between 4th and 9th the eight years before he arrived and turned them into champions?

Your opinion is not supported by the facts.

Yeah...... Italian league.... the fact is he is here now..... we play boring bland football AND we going nowhere. If I can see improvement.... we 2nd or 3rd in the league etc.......but we between CL & EL qualification with a manager who only committed to 18months. I have zero confidence that we headed in the direction of the teams you mentioned above.

DanielJohnCosta · Feb 17, 2023

spurs mental said:
Man, you are so blinkered by your hate and bias you're avoiding actual facts. There is no way he wanted or commissioned signing Danny Drinkwater and Bakoyoko along with Ross Barkley for a combined 100m +.

He wanted Alex Sandro or Perisic, Bonucci or Van Dijk and was given Zappacosta and had to use Christensen at CB when he returned from being on loan. The players he wanted were marginally older and that's why Chelsea refused to back him.

He had little say in transfers at Chelsea, and his quote about it being the club will decide rings familiar at Spurs too.

guess we'll never know who he did/didn't agree with signing at Chelsea, fact remains he won the league with players the club bought in before him and he failed with the ones signed under his watch

piedpiper · Feb 17, 2023

mr ashley said:
Ah ok so the thing we need is a manager who is good with recruitment and the support from the owner to buy those players

I just think our entire squad was running on empty back then.... Poch eventually had about 16players he trusted . Ran them into the ground.

spurs mental · Feb 17, 2023

DanielJohnCosta said:
guess we'll never know who he did/didn't agree with signing at Chelsea, fact remains he won the league with players the club bought in before him and he failed with the ones signed under his watch

As someone else said, it's printed in black and white. If you're that way inclined I'm sure you can find who he wanted vs who he was given and the reason why he left Chelsea. I'm not sure finishing 5th and winning the FA Cup is failing either. But you do you.

mr ashley · Feb 17, 2023

Duke of Northumberland said:
The whole friction over transfers/rebuilding was when the stadium project was escalating in costs and delayed.

Now the financial model is transformed and the transfer budget and spend is higher. These are empirical facts. It’s night and day.

It wasn’t a constant battle with Levy- see his book- they were very close.

But by all accounts during his final season at spurs, poch was moping about the training ground and behaving pretty strangely.
kane (as always) was behind him until it was too much.
When poch left it was painted very much that his relationship with the players had broken down. Having so many of them still here surely can’t be a good thing?

I find it hard to believe that the tension between poch and levy that caused so many strange press conferences (“I’m just a coach etc”) would also be so secure and jovial that wanting to return would be so enticing.
The skeptic in me finds it strange that he didn’t take another job after psg (like managing espanyol for example)

TOLBINY · Feb 17, 2023

piedpiper said:
Yeah...... Italian league.... the fact is he is here now..... we play boring bland football AND we going nowhere. If I can see improvement.... we 2nd or 3rd in the league etc.......but we between CL & EL qualification with a manager who only committed to 18months. I have zero confidence that we headed in the direction of the teams you mentioned above.

Responding to your comment "he needs a ready made team" - clearly he doesn't. Any his 'ready made' Chelsea team that won the league in 16/17 included Kante (35 prem appearances) Luiz (33 prem appearances) and Alonso (31 prem appearances) ALL of whom he purchased and integrated into his 'ready made' team that finished 10th the season before he arrived and had won one title in the 6 years prior to his arrival.

Totally understand that you have zero confidence we are heading in the same direction with Conte as the likes of Inter and Juventus did, but your reasoning (he needs a ready made team) does not stand up to scrutiny.

thebenjamin · Feb 17, 2023

Frozen_Waffles said:
I always wanted to give Conte a chance and I still think we can salvage the season.

However some of his decisions are now looking quite bizarre. I could accept not playing Spence as he sees him every day in training, I can understand supporting some of your players during a bad spell, especially experienced ones.

But his continuous use of Son and Peresic is baffling, I could understand it when Richy was injured and we hadn't signed Danjuma. We have options now and not only is he not giving them game time, he seems to be deliberately obstructing certain players from playing.

Porro playing in his first game alongside Tanganga (played 67 minutes of premier league football this season) away to Leicester was either incredibly arrogant or naive.

He rotates Lenglet and Davies all the time but point blank refuses to rotate Son and Kane.

He is Poch level slow at making changes during a match. And let's be frank, some (most) of the football has been putrid.

His formation is not changing at all even though it's not working. He is the most inflexible manager I have ever seen.

When we are playing shit we need to change how we play or the personnel, but he doesn't seem to have done that all season apart from when injury forces it.

He did superbly last season, but this season it just hasn't worked and it seems like he has no answers. He has one play and cannot adapt to the opposition.

Hopefully the manager search and the decision won't be a monumental balls up like last time. He has until the end of the season, but I'd be surprised if he makes it.

Watched Spence against Shaktar and he was extremely poor. Miles away.

olliec · Feb 17, 2023

We were all roasting him about not playing Spence, and thought it was all to do with stubbornness, but clearly from the Rennes and shaktar game hes not good at tracking back and defending. Conte knew this, which is why he was hardly picked.

Styopa · Feb 17, 2023

mr ashley said:
Having so many of them still here surely can’t be a good thing?

There’s really not that many though. 3 of the current squad started in the 2019 CL Final. Of the 23 man squad for the final including subs we still have 7 in the squad, although Lucas is almost certainly going to leave in the summer. You are talking maybe 6 or 7 players out of a 25 man squad who Pochettino spent a reasonable amount of time working with.

2019 final:
Lloris (c)
Trippier
Alderweireld
Vertonghen
Rose
Sissoko
Winks
Eriksen
Dele
Son
Kane

Substitutes

Davies
Sánchez
Lamela
Wanyama
Vorm
Dier
Walker-Peters
Llorente
Foyth
Gazzaniga
Aurier
Lucas Moura

aussiespursguy · Feb 17, 2023

Frankly I am sick of the in - out debate.
It's boring.
Levy needs to stay or go.
No more what Conte did at Chelscum or where Poch went wrong.
Make a decision and stick to it.
If it is right well done.
If not make the decision.

spurs mental · Feb 17, 2023

Styopa said:
There’s really not that many though. 3 of the current squad started in the 2019 CL Final. Of the 23 man squad for the final including subs we still have 7 in the squad, although Lucas is almost certainly going to leave in the summer. You are talking maybe 6 or 7 players out of a 25 man squad who Pochettino spent a reasonable amount of time working with.

2019 final:
Lloris (c)
Trippier
Alderweireld
Vertonghen
Rose
Sissoko
Winks
Eriksen
Dele
Son
Kane

Substitutes
Davies
Sánchez
Lamela
Wanyama
Vorm
Dier
Walker-Peters
Llorente
Foyth
Gazzaniga
Aurier
Lucas Moura

7 is still nearly 30% of the squad.

Ok, 2 will definitely go or be upgraded this summer with Lloris and Lucas, but that's still 20%.

If he's given autonomy to remove others then great. But I have my reservations that he'd be allowed to.

Timberwolf · Feb 17, 2023

mr ashley said:
But by all accounts during his final season at spurs, poch was moping about the training ground and behaving pretty strangely.
kane (as always) was behind him until it was too much.
When poch left it was painted very much that his relationship with the players had broken down. Having so many of them still here surely can’t be a good thing?

I find it hard to believe that the tension between poch and levy that caused so many strange press conferences (“I’m just a coach etc”) would also be so secure and jovial that wanting to return would be so enticing.
The skeptic in me finds it strange that he didn’t take another job after psg (like managing espanyol for example)

5 years is a very long time in football. I don't think it's too hard to imagine him and Levy patching things up, especially given how much worse Poch was treated at PSG by both the fans and the board.

As for the players, there are only really a few first teamers left from the Poch days and most of those won't be around much longer. You'd hope that Poch would come back fresh and invigorated rather than being jaded like he was after 5-6 years of hard work at the club. He had a great relationship with all of those players until things soured right at the very end, and even then there was never a big bust up or anything. I imagine most of them would be fine with him returning and probably quite excited since their most successful period was under him.

As for why he didn't take another job - the massive clubs don't seem to want him and he sees himself above the smaller clubs like Leeds that have chased him. Even though he loves them, he'd never go back to a club the size of Espanol after managing Spurs and PSG. Not yet anyway.

max cady · Feb 17, 2023

thebenjamin said:
Watched Spence against Shaktar and he was extremely poor. Miles away.

Seen that too he was very poor looked every bit a league 1 player

HildoSpur · Feb 17, 2023

thebenjamin said:
Watched Spence against Shaktar and he was extremely poor. Miles away.

Must be another Spence mate, the one we have in our squad is miles better than Emerson and it's clearly because Conte is being stubborn that he isn't being used to light up the Premiership.

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Likes Erik Lamela, deal with it.

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