Ex-Manager watch: Antonio Conte

Yantino · Mar 2, 2023

jimbo said:
I’m usually over a defeat pretty quickly these days, but last night has annoyed me. Not one element in particular, all of it.

I’m ready to burn it all down and start again. Which is pretty much what I think we might need or else we’ll be back here again right on schedule.

I think a lot of us have reached the same conclusion and are at the same point now.

I’m bored of talking about who is to blame. Going round the cycle again. We need to see some wholesale change and it starts at the top IMO.

spurs9 · Mar 2, 2023

Trix said:
A system that has been tried and tested for a decade to bring trophies.

To be fair, the system was only successful fort 1 season plus about 10 games in the PL, the other season and a half it hasn't been. Serie A is a completely different style of league, so not comparible.

Scot-Spur · Mar 2, 2023

jolsnogross said:
An issue here is that it hasn't required much patience to get behind ETH or Arteta, each winning trophies early on. It also didn't take much patience to get behind Poch. The key is whether the right guy is in charge, because endless patience with the wrong guy isn't going to achieve anything other than more mediocrity and frustration.

Maybe Conte is the right guy, but he's got to start showing it and this inconsistency for an entire season so far isn't acceptable. I'm fine with him seeing out the season, but suspect a CL exit and drop away from 4th would be the end of it. If he doesn't just leave himself anyway.

Edit: He's also a moron for tossing away the FA cup this week. It could and should have worked out even with the team that was picked, but not attacking this game like the whole season hinged on it was really dumb.

You do realise half the Arsenal fan base wanted Arteta out last summer?

Joe Bjorn Hotspur · Mar 2, 2023

jimbo said:
I’m usually over a defeat pretty quickly these days, but last night has annoyed me. Not one element in particular, all of it.

I’m ready to burn it all down and start again. Which is pretty much what I think we might need or else we’ll be back here again right on schedule.

Same here, it’s got to the stage of rinse repeat far too many times. I’m just not going to lie and pretend that I’m ok with that and numerous other half arsed performances this season with the same predictable approach to all opponents. I really don’t have a name of a desired manger like others as I feel other than Poch who would want to come to us: the owners know this fully well and we will be appeased for a bit.

ILS · Mar 2, 2023

spurs9 said:
There are a few in the Bundesliga, Frankfurt for example.

Leipzig play three at the back on some occasions but have recently switched back to a four. Union Berlin play three at the back.

I have no issue with playing three at the back if we had some flexibility to switch it up on some occasions, but it is just so rigid and depends on having the exact skillset required in each position to achieve the maximum output.

Biggest example is taking Romero out who can play when being pressed, which then opens up other areas and replacing him with either Dumb or Dumber who struggle with the basic fundamentals of passing a football 10 yards to a team mate.

YB123 · Mar 2, 2023

ILS said:
Leipzig play three at the back on some occasions but have recently switched back to a four. Union Berlin play three at the back.

I have no issue with playing three at the back if we had some flexibility to switch it up on some occasions, but it is just so rigid and depends on having the exact skillset required in each position to achieve the maximum output.

Biggest example is taking Romero out who can play when being pressed, which then opens up other areas and replacing him with either Dumb or Dumber who struggle with the basic fundamentals of passing a football 10 yards to a team mate.

You'll find the gooners actually go 3 at the back when the ball is on one side of the pitch. Basically White or Zinechnko get free reign to go forward, City do the same. I guess its more of a fluidity than formation though

Joe Bjorn Hotspur · Mar 2, 2023

ILS said:
Leipzig play three at the back on some occasions but have recently switched back to a four. Union Berlin play three at the back.

I have no issue with playing three at the back if we had some flexibility to switch it up on some occasions, but it is just so rigid and depends on having the exact skillset required in each position to achieve the maximum output.

Biggest example is taking Romero out who can play when being pressed, which then opens up other areas and replacing him with either Dumb or Dumber who struggle with the basic fundamentals of passing a football 10 yards to a team mate.

Agreed, can be done but the refusal to change it up especially when it’s not working, you need a goal etc. I’ve got no agenda at all, never liked this and we’ve been sussed out by every team more or less. Slow start sit back absorb pressure… I know some will say Arteta was given a chance etc but remember he won them the FA Cup and his style is totally different. You can tell he is done with us and to an extent feels like he has always been with that sense of giving us a favour as he is a winner etc. The last three appointments have divided our fan base for an elongated period, more than I remember since the Graham days, even then if we had social media most would not want him and like his style of football.

only1waddle · Mar 2, 2023

spurs9 said:
The first title he won at Juve they played 4-3-3.

By the looks of things, started 424, then switched briefly to 433 but by the November went 352, found a few articles saying similar

spurs9 · Mar 2, 2023

only1waddle said:
By the looks of things, started 424, then switched briefly to 433 but by the November went 352, found a few articles saying similar

He played a back 3 in 12 games the entire league season, including 1st game of the season. He played 4-3-3 in 21 games and 4-4-2 in 5 games.

crokey · Mar 2, 2023

I find it funny how far people will go to blame a football result on anyone other than the guys who kicked the ball badly

RELISYS · Mar 2, 2023

Trix said:
The backline was the reason for this and everything stems from a solid base. When you believe your backline will keep you in games, it's a lot easier to be expressive further forward and take risks/play with more freedom.

When the custard pies come out, and you watch them all running into each other, your subconscious makes you more risk adverse and you drop deeper to accommodate. The mistakes then start to multiply and you can't break the cycle.

The old saying "you build from the back" is as true today as it ever was and it's the absolute key to success. It was not a forward who changed Liverpools fortunes it was VVD and Allison. Look at what Arsenal did this Summer. Saliba coming in is the difference, not Jesus who has hardly played and only scored a handful. Martinez at United the same. I could go on and on but as long as that back line lacks quality, the whole structure including the creativity will suffer also. Poch's side was beautiful to watch but that was built on the solidity of Jan and Toby. It's no coincidence we dropped off a cliff when they came to an end and were not replaced. Romero replaces one and we look so much better when he plays, when he doesn't it's a massive problem.

This just highlights Conte incompetence then picking Sanchez over a World Cup winning defender who greatly improves us. Having a poor defense should have no bearing on our Attack, Creativity and Willingness to take risks. Unless that what has been drilled into them by their Manage/Coach with a defense first approach. To many of our players are occupied by being auxiliary defenders because of tactical instructions and actually creating chances is a secondary concern. What is in their subconscious is down to Conte and his training sessions and what he tells his Players, repeated over and over until it becomes automatic to them and they now do it without thinking for them self's.

As Cesc Fabregas put it:

'I had coaches like Pep [Guardiola] who had a lot of positioning game but we had freedom inside of this. With Conte, the freedom was non-existent, he was telling me where I have to pass the ball.'

A poor pass is down to lack of ability but where they attempt to pass the ball is down to Conte it seems and it's usually the less risky option.

Even when Liverpool did not have VVD and Allison, they never lacked Creativity and Klopp still wanted them to Attack, Teams were scared of them because they were relentless in Attack, even with a poor defense. Liverpool still have VVD and Allison and yet it's the decline of their Attack which is now causing them problems, the Same with Arteta and even Rodgers. A poor defense did not stop them from wanting to hurting the opposition, It's only Conte that this seems to apply to and It's just an excuse for a Manager who likes to talk and act like a Winner, but then employs a hide behind the Couch approach to Football.

DiVaio · Mar 3, 2023

spurs9 said:
Sorry, but ETH has absolutely changed/adapted his system at the start at United, when his usual system wasn't working.

Tactical Analysis: The tide is turning for Erik Ten Hag

11 matches into a new era and there are already some changes in play at a team and individual level...

thebusbybabe.sbnation.com

Also Tuchel definitely changed his system at Chelsea. Much more passive/defensive football than he was playing at PSG or Dortmund.
Guardiola is consistently changing formation, roles for certain players or just rotating though? He adapted last season to play without nominal striker or without any left back at the moment at his squad.

IamSpurtacus · Mar 3, 2023

jimbo said:
I’m usually over a defeat pretty quickly these days, but last night has annoyed me. Not one element in particular, all of it.

I’m ready to burn it all down and start again. Which is pretty much what I think we might need or else we’ll be back here again right on schedule.

Im not annoyed because I’ve become so used to it I’m indifferent

changing the manager won’t change the outcome

It’s Groundhog Day

-Afri-Coy- · Mar 3, 2023

DiVaio said:
Also Tuchel definitely changed his system at Chelsea. Much more passive/defensive football than he was playing at PSG or Dortmund.
Guardiola is consistently changing formation, roles for certain players or just rotating though? He adapted last season to play without nominal striker or without any left back at the moment at his squad.

They make adjustments not wholesale changes to the system. Pep has never abandoned the tiki tala style, Tuchel’s system remained largely intact other than they could work with less midfielders than he was used to at Dortmund, The basis of their philosophy never changes.

Tweaks and adjustments are to be expected but people are expecting Conte to radically change the way he sets us up, and no manager on earth just abandons their entire system.

Here is an article detailing Tuchel’s adjustments to positioning and formation, but the large part of his possession based game remained the same. The change in formation happened when he moved from Dortmund to PSG, but remained largely the same when he moved to Chelsea. So he in fact did not change his system at Chelsea like you pointed out.

Thomas Tuchel: Coach Watch - The Coaches' Voice

Thomas Tuchel’s influence at Chelsea has been remarkable, and demonstrated why he is widely thought of as a coach in the mould of Jürgen Klopp

www.coachesvoice.com

nedley · Mar 3, 2023

I've fluttered between in and out for weeks now but this game has cemented my stance.

Alot has to change between now and the end of the season for me to want Conte to start next season.

sidford · Mar 3, 2023

Listening to view from the lane and even without Danny Kelly on it the lads make their views on Conte clearer each podcast that goes by.
Considering 2 of the 3 cover spurs, and aren't spurs fans, it's interesting hearing their views.

Double down again on their view that he's unlikely to be there next season and let's just say they aren't even trying to hide their opinions about him anymore.

Hard to disagree with any of it to be honest. Unfortunately the fortunes of the team won't change by getting rid of him as the ineptitude above him will still be there but least we might be able to see a decent game of football & given the players we have the actual % of wins shouldn't change.

Guernman · Mar 3, 2023

It doesn’t matter who the manager is, Sanchez and Tanganga shouldn’t be near our squad. Dier and Davies shouldn’t be first choice. Romero is our only class defender and when he doesn’t play it impacts our entire defensive unit, from keeper to our holding midfielders. Lloris is declining, Forster isn’t a no.1.

I’d sooner fix this glaring issue and see how our top class manager actually fairs with some actual defensive stability rather than bring in yet another manager obliged to try and get a tune out of Sanchez and co

Martinhotspur · Mar 3, 2023

crokey said:
I find it funny how far people will go to blame a football result on anyone other than the guys who kicked the ball badly

But there is the guy who picked the guy who kicked the ball badly. The guy who bought the player. The guy who hired the manager. So we can share the blame around

spursfan77 · Mar 3, 2023

sidford said:
Listening to view from the lane and even without Danny Kelly on it the lads make their views on Conte clearer each podcast that goes by.
Considering 2 of the 3 cover spurs, and aren't spurs fans, it's interesting hearing their views.

Double down again on their view that he's unlikely to be there next season and let's just say they aren't even trying to hide their opinions about him anymore.

Hard to disagree with any of it to be honest. Unfortunately the fortunes of the team won't change by getting rid of him as the ineptitude above him will still be there but least we might be able to see a decent game of football & given the players we have the actual % of wins shouldn't change.

I’ve been putting off listening to any podcasts on us recently, but might give this one a go today if I have time. It is usually a good listen but I’m not convinced about Tim Spiers, he has that small time view a lot of fans have and doesn’t seem to shake it off talking about us. James Maw has always been negative on Conte but Jack whatshisname is usually pretty balanced. A good podcast and interesting listen. I would like to know who they think the next poor sod is in the hot desk.

sidford · Mar 3, 2023

spursfan77 said:
I’ve been putting off listening to any podcasts on us recently, but might give this one a go today if I have time. It is usually a good listen but I’m not convinced about Tim Spiers, he has that small time view a lot of fans have and doesn’t seem to shake it off talking about us. James Maw has always been negative on Conte but Jack whatshisname is usually pretty balanced. A good podcast and interesting listen. I would like to know who they think the next poor sod is in the hot desk.

Would recommend listening to it. Agree re James Maw and his views on Conte but he has a rationale for not liking him rather than just a "his football is shit" which a lot of people give.
JPB in a few bits does make his feelings clear on Conte, have noticed last few weeks his tone on Conte has changed. There's even a few little cuts at Levy, only small but they are there.
I like Danny Kelly but he is pretty emotional and has disliked Conte from the start so it's interesting hearing the other 3 without him.

This is the only podcast il listen to after a defeat as they generally are balanced about it.

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