Ex-Manager watch: Antonio Conte

-Afri-Coy- · Mar 5, 2023

Albertbarich said:
I know Conte is a top coach but I can't bare the thought of another season of defensive boring football alongside this will he won't he stay soap opera.

Time to move on.

If he stays it will be because he’s signed the 3 year contract that’s apparently on the table. So that wouldn’t be an issue.

spursfan77 · Mar 5, 2023

rossdapep said:
We may be 4th but I really don't think our form suggests we are the 4th best team.

Newcastle and Liverpool win their games in hand and we are 6th. Which is probably a truer reflection of where we are.

You have to then consider that Liverpool are suffering from burn out after the past few years theyve had and I don't think it puts us in good light.

Chelsea's self sabotage has elevated our position slightly too.

I know all the 'ifs' and 'buts' are only that sometimes.

But do people honestly think weve been close to United's level this season, let alone Arsenal.

And do people think weve been better than Chelsea or Liverpool? I'd say marginally, perhaps. But with 12 games left there's time for them to still finish strong.

If we do finish 6th, then we are right back where we were under Jose.

The thing is, once we go out against Milan then the conditions are what Conte thrives in. One game a week. Our fixtures are really good. As shite as we’ve been, I really wouldn’t rule us out. It’s going to be another end of the season like in 2019, when every club was doing their best to try and not finish fourth.

YB123 · Mar 5, 2023

Stamford said:
They all have one thing in common though which is zero planning.

Hoddle is much like the poch appointment that feels imminent which is to try and win over the fan base.

Redknapp, Conte, Jose were all moments of panic when he was forced to make a call. Ramos and Santini there was an element of planning but even then he did it by screwing over Jol

Thats the irony.

Jol. Arnesen was DoF and wanted Jol as manager. Levy overruled and got Santini with Jol assistant. A mess.

Redknapp was only hired because we were heading for relegation at the time.

Poch was not even first choice. It was Van Gaal but United came in late doors and got him.

Levy really doesnt know what he's doing in footballing terms.

spursfan77 · Mar 5, 2023

-Afri-Coy- said:
And yet we still sat comfortably in 3rd, having scored the 3rd most goals across the league at the time but we had also conceded the 3rd most goals too.

Once the attackers dropped off a cliff things started to sour. But up until then we were doing fine. You may not have seen it that way but numbers don’t lie.

The wins were there for sure, but the performances weren’t. Just go back and have a look through the threads from September.

Albertbarich · Mar 5, 2023

-Afri-Coy- said:
If he stays it will be because he’s signed the 3 year contract that’s apparently on the table. So that wouldn’t be an issue.

Unless we simply agree to take the option of another year up...

spurs mental · Mar 5, 2023

spursfan77 said:
The thing is, once we go out against Milan

That's the spirit

Fucking hell we whinge at the mentality of the club and the player's but who could blame them when most of the fanbase don't believe in them anyway

-Afri-Coy- · Mar 5, 2023

spursfan77 said:
The wins were there for sure, but the performances weren’t. Just go back and have a look through the threads from September.

I agree, the performances were nowhere near as good as the bar set last season, but we were effective. From that point it could’ve swung either way but people were already calling for Conte’s head back then.

spursfan77 · Mar 5, 2023

spurs mental said:
That's the spirit

Fucking hell we whinge at the mentality of the club and the player's but who could blame them when most of the fanbase don't believe in them anyway

Why would you believe in them? I’m usually quite positive about things, as the rest of my post suggests, but you must admit that they usually let us down.

rossdapep · Mar 5, 2023

mpickard2087 said:
Many would say this, but I don't even think that is true. Ramos, admittedly results got worse and worse, from what I recall never got doubters off his back after the League Cup win. If Jose had done a smash and grab on City to win the cup but like 3 days later was back serving up park the bus tactics against the Dog & Duck 3rd XI then I'd bet there would have been plenty of pissed off punters calling for his head. Likewise with Conte, if he picked up a cup whilst overall we got "this" then I don't really see that winning hearts and minds.

Football is a constant, a team like ours plays every few days, fans these days can pore over every 90 mins and not rely on the snapshot of a tv highlights package of a match picking out the best moments like those of yesteryear had to.... If it's "not good" and you don't really enjoy what you see then you can't really escape it, and I don't even think the odd trophy or two would really placate most people for any length of time. Obviously be nice to put that idea to the test, but yeah.

It obviously doesn't work quite as cut and dry as this but my feeling with Conte, to an extent, and Jose coming in was that they'd at least deliver a trophy or two and if they were to leave shortly after that, which they tend to do, is that we could then return to having some fun or appointing a coach who wasn't defined by simply winning trophies.

I was never under the illusion Jose was gonna be here more than 3 years. With Conte I felt he needed a bit of time to get his team, I don't prescribe to the notion is football is the same as Jose's because it can be exciting. So I felt Conte may have stayed a little longer had he won something or been happy with the incomings.

But I certainly agree with your point. If Conte had won the FA Cup but PL form and performances been utter toilet, Id be totally fine with him going because he came in and did what we got him for, to finally get us over the line.

Now its becoming clearer that we are not a club you can really do that with, Im happier to get a more dynamic coach who wants his teams to be brave, wants to work with the younger players but also aims high.

dtxspurs · Mar 5, 2023

spurs mental said:
That's the spirit

Fucking hell we whinge at the mentality of the club and the player's but who could blame them when most of the fanbase don't believe in them anyway

Ah yes, because we should all feel confident in Conte's glowing European track record.

fishhhandaricecake · Mar 5, 2023

thebenjamin said:
Agree with that, but in the meantime when we clearly don't have the players he demands yet, is it beyond the pale to ask him to maybe try and work with what he's got? Rather than just picking the system he wants to play, in the full knowledge it isn't going to work because he doesn't have the players. And then: 'see, I told you it wasn't going to work because I need more players'. At some point could he, as a world class coach, maybe add some value himself by trying something different and catching the opposition coach by surprise?

Everyone in football also knows exactly how we're going to play, every game. To the point where you literally know what every player is going to do in possession at any given moment.

Yep. As Pirlo said in the Juve AON docco, “all Conte’s teams moves are rehearsed and specific, we know what they’re going to do”.

Now if we were predictable but people couldn’t stop us, that is another matter but just plain old predictable is a problem.

spurs mental · Mar 5, 2023

dtxspurs said:
Ah yes, because we should all feel confident in Conte's glowing European track record.

spursfan77 said:
Why would you believe in them? I’m usually quite positive about things, as the rest of my post suggests, but you must admit that they usually let us down.

Because we're playing at home, it's a one goal deficit and we've shown at home recently were capable of doing well.

If the atmosphere is good it helps. But this woe is me attitude isn't going to help the team at all.

fishhhandaricecake · Mar 5, 2023

mpickard2087 said:
Many would say this, but I don't even think that is true. Ramos, admittedly results got worse and worse, from what I recall never got doubters off his back after the League Cup win. If Jose had done a smash and grab on City to win the cup but like 3 days later was back serving up park the bus tactics against the Dog & Duck 3rd XI then I'd bet there would have been plenty of pissed off punters calling for his head. Likewise with Conte, if he picked up a cup whilst overall we got "this" then I don't really see that winning hearts and minds.

Football is a constant, a team like ours plays every few days, fans these days can pore over every 90 mins and not rely on the snapshot of a tv highlights package of a match picking out the best moments like those of yesteryear had to.... If it's "not good" and you don't really enjoy what you see then you can't really escape it, and I don't even think the odd trophy or two would really placate most people for any length of time. Obviously be nice to put that idea to the test, but yeah.

Great post, especially the first bit as it has to be the whole picture. If we are playing dog shite boring football week in week out but get a lucky draw to a cup final and sneak a one off win then great happy days ofc but the fans will still be on said managers back if as you say the following week in the PL we go back to struggling and boring the pants of people.

These days more than ever their has to be continual progression and excitement and a clear plan that fans can feel positive about, this is why I regard our only successful managers over the last 30 years to have been Jol, Redknapp and Poch.

They all drove us forward and achieved many things in many ways just not a trophy.

Ramos & George Graham, sure they won us a league cup but their overall tenure was on the whole a disaster.

Judging managers purely on trophies especially just the League Cup, is like marking an exam and because the student got one difficult sum/Q right out of 50 your give them an A* even though they got 30/40 of the other Q’s wrong and overall deserved a C-E.

As for Conte the situation is also not black and white at all.
1. He got us out of a hole and into top4 - A* job
2. We are still 4th this season but the football has been pretty poor on the whole after fairly decent backing - C
3. We’ve disappointingly wimpered out of both domestic cups pretty early on - D
4. We are still in the Champions League knockout rounds but the tie is in the balance and based on our performances you’d be a brave man to think we will go particularly much further - C
5. Take into account our injuries this season and Conte’s personal struggles as a factor *

Overall mark so far:
C

Not a terrible job but hardly inspiring and we’d be expecting much more given his pedigree.

RuskyM · Mar 5, 2023

YB123 said:
Thats the irony.

Jol. Arnesen was DoF and wanted Jol as manager. Levy overruled and got Santini with Jol assistant. A mess.

Redknapp was only hired because we were heading for relegation at the time.

Poch was not even first choice. It was Van Gaal but United came in late doors and got him.

Levy really doesnt know what he's doing in footballing terms.

Can't say he aims low though - Nuno the exception, but apparently that was Paratici. Prandelli in 2003, Mourinho half a dozen times, a guy who just won the UEFA Cup, the biggest manager of the 21st century and a guy who'd won two titles in four years. That's part of what makes this malaise so bewildering - if it was Mark Hughes or Steve Bruce and we were constantly underachieving it'd make sense.

Cochise · Mar 5, 2023

I think we really struggle at the moment in having only one focal point in attack. Kane was not allowed to drop deep yesterday without Lemina on him. Deki was out wide and Son was his ineffectual self. Hojbjerg failed to spot Perisic at least half a dozen times in the first half when he was starting to get some speed up to run in behind and when Skipp found our wingbacks our front three were not threatening the box at all.

The buildup at times was decent with more risks taken by Porro, Skipp and Romero to get things moving through that first defensive line. What we did in the final third a lot of the time was not good enough.

fishhhandaricecake · Mar 5, 2023

YB123 said:
Thats the irony.

Jol. Arnesen was DoF and wanted Jol as manager. Levy overruled and got Santini with Jol assistant. A mess.

Redknapp was only hired because we were heading for relegation at the time.

Poch was not even first choice. It was Van Gaal but United came in late doors and got him.

Levy really doesnt know what he's doing in footballing terms.

And there in lies our issue

YB123 · Mar 5, 2023

RuskyM said:
Can't say he aims low though - Nuno the exception, but apparently that was Paratici. Prandelli in 2003, Mourinho half a dozen times, a guy who just won the UEFA Cup, the biggest manager of the 21st century and a guy who'd won two titles in four years. That's part of what makes this malaise so bewildering - if it was Mark Hughes or Steve Bruce and we were constantly underachieving it'd make sense.

Thats a good point but so many contrasting styles. He doesnt know what he wants half the time.

YB123 · Mar 5, 2023

DiVaio said:
Conte was backed. What does it change Porro is only loan(with mandatory option to buy) anyway?

Also - Mourinho, considering the financial reality when he was our manager was also backed.

Just because money is spent, doesnt mean a manager is backed. You keep pushing that narrative and its incorrect.

The Doc · Mar 5, 2023

YB123 said:
Just because money is spent, doesnt mean a manager is backed. You keep pushing that narrative and its incorrect.

Yep. Let’s say I am appointed as boss in the summer (obviously I will have to delete my account on here when that happens). I tell Levy to sell Son and Kane and use the proceeds to buy me Hincapie and Osimhen. Levy does the former but buys me Harry Maguire and Romelu Lukaku instead. Now. On the one hand I have been “backed”, but, on the other, Levy has taken me for a total **** hasn’t he?

YB123 · Mar 5, 2023

The Doc said:
Yep. Let’s say I am appointed as boss in the summer (obviously I will have to delete my account on here when that happens). I tell Levy to sell Son and Kane and use the proceeds to buy me Hincapie and Osimhen. Levy does the former but buys me Harry Maguire and Romelu Lukaku instead. Now. On the one hand I have been “backed”, but, on the other, Levy has taken me for a total **** hasn’t he?

Exactly. Its a lazy narrative to say Conte has been backed because we've spent a certain amount.

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