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THUDD v Everton

ShelfSide18

Well-Known Member
Aug 23, 2006
8,386
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People forget that one of the Hudds finest performances was against Man U at home last year.

As for the Everton game, i'd be inclined to either play 451 with O hara/Zokora and JJ alongside Hudd to hassle and get stuck in to free up space and time for Tommy to use his magic, or in a 442 use the Jol type tactic and have 3 centralised midfielders with Lennon as the outlet. I do worry that if we played the same midfield as we did against Blackburn Tommy could get overrun - so O Hara in for Bentley.

But anyway, it's the law they always beat us at the lane and we often win at Goodison.
 

SpurSince57

Well-Known Member
Jan 20, 2006
45,213
8,229
People forget that one of the Hudds finest performances was against Man U at home last year.

As for the Everton game, i'd be inclined to either play 451 with O hara/Zokora and JJ alongside Hudd to hassle and get stuck in to free up space and time for Tommy to use his magic, or in a 442 use the Jol type tactic and have 3 centralised midfielders with Lennon as the outlet. I do worry that if we played the same midfield as we did against Blackburn Tommy could get overrun - so O Hara in for Bentley.

But anyway, it's the law they always beat us at the lane and we often win at Goodison.

This is true, but United tend not to try to clog you out of the game.

Everton have only ever beaten us twice at the Lane in the EPL (and only twice at home). In fact, the overall home record is W38, D20, L16—which, considering we've played them more than most sides down the years, makes them pretty comprehensively our bitches.
 

ShelfSide18

Well-Known Member
Aug 23, 2006
8,386
3,122
This is true, but United tend not to try to clog you out of the game.

Everton have only ever beaten us twice at the Lane in the EPL (and only twice at home). In fact, the overall home record is W38, D20, L16—which, considering we've played them more than most sides down the years, makes them pretty comprehensively our bitches.

Really? I think those 2 back to back losses tend to stick in the mind!

You're right about Man U, It was more a point to refute the claim that he only performs against weak opposition.
 

tRiKS

Ledley's No.1 fan
Jun 6, 2005
6,854
142
That could be the case? Or maybe he has watched the vast majority of the games Huddlestone has played in to come to the conclusion he has?

The fact is, other than a few games, often against weaker opposition, Hudd has looked lost and has had very little impact. Whether this has been because we have not had the right players around him, or whether he has needed time to develop, or both, those are the facts.

I think it is perfectly reasonable to still ask the question as to whether Hudd can really do it on a regular basis, particularly when up against an extra man in midfield!

But the original statement was all about him on the ball which hasn't changed, he remains the same on the ball which is good, the one thing most of us agree on is that huddlestone can pass the ball. The bone of contention with him is his ability to win and close the ball especially againt he better teams.
So if someone come on here and make reference to a fictional change in his use of the ball when in reality the improvement has been off the ball then questions whether you’ve actually seen the game shouldn’t be a surprise.

You don’t rate Huddlestone and you were too eager to jump to the defence of anyone who’s like minded to you, so much so that you didn’t even understand what I wrote. It’s not as if I even said Huddlestone was any good I only said his improvement was noticeable off the ball not on it.

 

Rackybear

You Must Respect Ma Authowita!
Aug 10, 2008
4,613
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Really? I think those 2 back to back losses tend to stick in the mind!

You're right about Man U, It was more a point to refute the claim that he only performs against weak opposition.

and what about the times when Keane scored a hatrick when we beat them 4-3, and when kanoute scored a absolute belter of a volley from 35 yards when we won 3-1? :razz:
 

SpurSince57

Well-Known Member
Jan 20, 2006
45,213
8,229
But the original statement was all about him on the ball which hasn't changed, he remains the same on the ball which is good, the one thing most of us agree on is that huddlestone can pass the ball. The bone of contention with him is his ability to win and close the ball especially againt he better teams.
So if someone come on here and make reference to a fictional change in his use of the ball when in reality the improvement has been off the ball then questions whether you’ve actually seen the game shouldn’t be a surprise.

You don’t rate Huddlestone and you were too eager to jump to the defence of anyone who’s like minded to you, so much so that you didn’t even understand what I wrote. It’s not as if I even said Huddlestone was any good I only said his improvement was noticeable off the ball not on it.

Not necessarily the 'better' teams, but those that play a high-tempo in-yer-face pressing game that won't give him time on the ball—the most notable recent example being Fulham. At the moment, he needs at least one other midfielder riding shotgun.
 

Bristol Coys

New Member
Aug 5, 2008
753
5
Jenas is a must against Everton, unappreciated but vital.
With Modric out we have to stay 442
THudd is my pick as his partner, with O'Hara playing wide left and Lennon on the right. Bentley needs to come on as an impact player and prove his worth. Lennon could destroy Lescott. Its their achiles IMAO.

NO choice for 3 of the back 4 with Hutton out for so long. Illustrates how he was not fully fit, while people were slatting him. Problem for me is left back. BAE has gone missing a few times. Despite his obvious talent, would you put Bale up against Arteta at the momment?

Obviously the 2 boys up front together that cant play together..

This wont be an easy game by any stretch, despite their recent defeat, they are a strong team with a good spirit. They have a player in midfield that I wish we had bought in the summer. Fellaini. Be interesting to see how THudd goes against him.
 

Sputic

Well-Known Member
Jun 17, 2005
658
463
The impressive change in Huddlestone has been his tackling and closing of his opponents though. Nothing to do with how much pressure he's been under on the ball. The only game recently he did miss from the start we lost against Fulham and only when he came on did we look to have a foot hold in the game... and that was agaisnt 3 CM opponents verses our 2??!
Not convinced the starter of this thread has watched any games.

Well maybe. But we don't know for sure. Whereas you definitely can't have watched the Fulham game, as Huddlestone definitely started and he got subbed at half time.

Plus Fulham played with two upfront so I doubt it was 3 v our 2. In fact we started with 3 in CM and only switched to 2 at half time.

Also I didn't read his post as doubting whether Huddlestone should start. I thought he was more likely saying that this would be the acid test for him.
 

southlondonyiddo

My eyes have seen some of the glory..
Nov 8, 2004
12,599
15,012
I guess it was asking too much although playing with Zokora certainly doesn't help him.
 

Paxtonite

Active Member
Nov 28, 2004
1,956
32
What's the alternative?

If Saha's out, as seems likely, they won't have much option but to go 4-5-1, unless they play Anichebe up front with the Yak. If it's 4-5-1, as it probably will be, I agree, we have to match that—it may seem negative, but if we stick with 4-4-2 the Hudd's going to get swamped. In that case I'd sooner O'Hara than Zokora—or, possibly, put Gunter at RB and give Charlie his run-out at DM.

I hope you noted Zokora's performance today? :)
 

djvapour

Member
May 6, 2005
117
0
with zoko's lack of movement today, (and so, not dragging a man away) it made it difficult for the gentle giant to spray the ball around the park like he normally does-we missed jenas badly today...
 

bubble07

Well-Known Member
Dec 27, 2004
22,959
29,896
the hudd was very very poor today. Worst game ive seen him play for a while
 

Wsussexspur

Well-Known Member
Oct 2, 2007
8,918
10,176
Have to agree with the above he was very poor today! I like the hudd think he has real potential to be top centre midfielder. However he really struggles with consitancy. For past. Three seasons or so everytime he gets in to team he has run of four or five games where he is outstanding and then the media get all excited callng him the new hoddle etc. Then all of a sudden his form suddenly drops right off and he finds himself on the bench again. I really hope this time is different and today was just one off bad game and he finds some consitancy to keep putting in type of performences he has been since harry put him back in the starting line up!
 

SpurSince57

Well-Known Member
Jan 20, 2006
45,213
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I hope you noted Zokora's performance today? :)

I noted—as far as a misbehaving stream allowed—that he was his usual busy self and his short-passing game was excellent (again as usual). But did he win a tackle all game? How many times did he beat an Everton midfielder to the first or second ball?

And the fact that Zok had a pretty good game is beside the point—he'd have had to have had a far, far better one (perhaps an impossibly better one) to compensate for Huddlestone's deficiencies. djvapour has it right with 'the gentle giant'—unless/until the Hudd can learn to put himself about like the similarly large Fellaini and use his size advantage his passing ability is going to be a luxury. He's going to require at least one other CM to ride shotgun for him. It's not a matter of consistency.

Would I write him off? Certainly not. But like all our CMs, we're talking about potential rather than the actuality—and the actuality is what we need right now.
 
Jun 5, 2005
51
49
I agree with a lot that's been said on here, As much as I appreciate Hudd's strengths and what he can bring to the game, our midfield gets overrun when he plays in a 4, especially him and Zokora together - its a big problem. Hudd struggles to close players down, he's too slow and has to stand off. Needs quality in there with him, and Zokora is not good enough, goes missing. When JJ and Modric are fit they should play.
 

InOffMeLeftShin

Night watchman
Admin
Jan 14, 2004
15,104
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Huddlestone was very poor yesterday, but I'm not entirely convinced it is all down to him. Ok he has some pretty obvious weaknesses in his game, but also some strengths which weren't utilised by the tactics or formation in the last couple of games.

I'm sure Harry is still trying to understand the dynamics of the team and really understand what each player is capable of. I'm sure he is well aware of Huddlestone's lack of mobility but that he has terrific passing ability. In fact he has been quoted as saying that Huddlestone is by far the best passer at the club and Huddlestone has already said that Harry told him to go out there and try his passes.

That is fair enough and you can forgive a few misplaced passes as long as there are some which find the target and look like opening teams up. That is surely what he is in the team for.

I can kind of understand Harry's decision to play him in a deeper role. At least I am going to try and justify it. In a normal situation when we have everyone fit, Modric will always start. He is fantastic, he always has his head up, his positional sense is great and most importantly he brings players into the game offensively. Redknapp clearly wants to get Modric on the ball at all opportunities. The idea is then to utilise Huddlestone's passing ability deep to transition the play from defence to attack. When Modric is playing the number one out ball is into Modric's feet, but with other possible outlets wide. When Modric plays Huddlestone gets far closer to him and in fact Modric helps bring him into the game offensively too.

It does seem though that in the role he has played the last couple of games the roles have been slightly shifted. Zokora has played a lot of the game ahead of Huddlestone trying to press the opposition, without actually getting his foot in, while Huddlestone has been the final man in front of the defence. Of course that means when we get the ball back Huddlestone is on it earlier, but it also means he is further away from the outlets and his passing opportunities are limited. Going back to Harry's analogy that Huddlestone is our quarterback, it seems recently that every time he receives the ball he looks up and goes for the Hail Mary pass.

It would make far more sense if Zokora was the last man and Huddlestone was in the more advanced role pressing. Of course maybe Harry sees Tom's size and thinks he is good cover, but I think most people can see that he can't consistently cover that ground in front of the defence and he isn't likely to ever get his foot in enough. With Zokora or Jenas as the last man in front of the defence we would have better coverage, but we would lose the instant ball out of defence. I think that is a good thing. Zokora or Jenas are more than capable of playing a simple ball to Huddlestone, who would then be in a better more advanced position to play an intelligent forward pass. The long straight pass is never going to work. It made Yobo and Jagielka look like world beating central defenders. In reality it made their job easier than it should have been. Higher up the field Huddlestone would have more opportunity to get players into the game, balls slid along the ground, behind the full backs into Lennon or Bentley, or balls into feet to the forwards. Without Modric in the team it is Huddlestone's responsibilty to bring players into the game. Lennon couldn't get on the ball yesterday. Pav worked hard to get on the ball, dropping off the front, but his touch let him down a little. Bent became completely anonymous again as he had nothing at all to feed off and without Modric bringing him into the game he looks ineffective.

I doubt Harry will allow many more games like that to happen and while I'm sure we will see Modric and Jenas again soon, I think Huddlestone will remain a fixture in the team. Harry needs to get Huddlestone's role right and Huddlestone needs to read the playbook and find some alternative solutions to get the ball to players. Horrible performance yesterday, but not a horrible player.
 

dbspurs

Well-Known Member
Sep 21, 2005
1,781
3,416
I really couldn't understand the Zokora/Huddlestone pairing yesterday (or at any time to be honest). It's like being a midfielder light when we are defending because Hudd just don't have the workrate and further up the field the gap between the midfield and the strikers was too far apart. I don't recall Zokora or Hudd getting in the Everton box once.

Harry must have known that Everton would pack the midfield and fight for every ball so we really should have had another midfielder in there to compensate. Instead we just decided to miss out the midfield completely and pump it up to the strikers.
 
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