New Stadium Details And Discussions

punky · Nov 27, 2009

I don't think its been mentioned on the forum today but Everton's stadium has been denied by the government.

Now I know the council want to push it through but can the government then override them afterwards? Our stadium might not be as cut-n-dried as we thought.

C0YS · Nov 27, 2009

interesting, on EH and planning aplication

1.10 It will be noted that paragraph (iii) provides a qualified acknowledgement that demolition
may be justified where proposed works would bring substantial benefits to the
community. Paragraph 3.17 defines the circumstances slightly differently, where it
states:
“...the Secretaries of State would not expect consent to be given for the total...
demolition of any listed building without clear and convincing evidence that...
redevelopment would produce substantial benefits for the community which would
decisively outweigh the loss resulting from demolition.”
In other words, there is a balance to be struck where there are competing demands
between conservation and community benefits provided that the balance is clearly in
favour of these benefits. This accords precisely with the theme of the Guidance as set
out in paragraph 1.2 noted earlier.

worcestersauce · Nov 27, 2009

punky said:
I don't think its been mentioned on the forum today but Everton's stadium has been denied by the government.

Now I know the council want to push it through but can the government then override them afterwards? Our stadium might not be as cut-n-dried as we thought.

I think the deciding factor there was that the plans included a giant Tesco's and it was the effect that would have on local businesses that made the difference, I know we have the Sainsburys but I believe they are just moving from the existing one just up the High Road.

I think that the public space and community facilities/events would count as the:- "convincing evidence that...
redevelopment would produce substantial benefits for the community which would decisively outweigh the loss resulting from demolition.” that COYS quoted.

robofan · Nov 27, 2009

worcestersauce said:
I think the deciding factor there was that the plans included a giant Tesco's and it was the effect that would have on local businesses that made the difference, I know we have the Sainsburys but I believe they are just moving from the existing one just up the High Road.

I think that the public space and community facilities/events would count as the:- "convincing evidence that...
redevelopment would produce substantial benefits for the community which would decisively outweigh the loss resulting from demolition.” that COYS quoted.

I think the difference between the 2 applications is the sheer size of the store that tesco wanted to build, which was outside of the new stadium area and not "incorporated" into the development, between the lines of the statement from the secretary of state, they were not entirely convinced that everton fc had much of a holding for the new ground, being as tesco were providing 78% of the cost, and tesco would have to be classed as the "owners" - hummm......anyone got a pound for the trolley

DC_Boy · Nov 27, 2009

hi RF

thanks for the info re tescos - insightful as usual

davidmatzdorf · Nov 28, 2009

Lilbaz said:
Can't the Mayor overide EH?.

No. He can't. Basically, no one can. Except for the Secretary of State for the Environment (or whatever that's called these days), and I'm not even sure if s/he can.

Sometimes objections from English Heritage are used as a basis for a local authority to refuse a planning application and, less often, such a refusal is overturned at appeal by the Planning Inspector, but that's not the same as English Heritage's views being directly vetoed.

dontcallme · Nov 28, 2009

So in a nutshell what is the full situation regarding the stadium developments?

markiespurs · Nov 28, 2009

Personally, i think the planning notice process is nothing more than a formality, especially when considering how closely the club seem to have been working with the local authorities.

At the end of the day, the club have the local authorities over a barrell, as i can't really see anyone else investing hundreds of millions into the local area, which is in dire need of big financial investment.

IMO, the club secured political support for the project a couple of years ago when they were making noises about moving out of the area. English Heritage might be able to delay the project slightly, but i think the club has enough political support and leverage, not to mention financial muscle, to see the project through to completion.

C0YS · Nov 28, 2009

dontcallme said:
So in a nutshell what is the full situation regarding the stadium developments?

It will go ahead, but may take some time, and slight editing. but nothing major.

louisg · Nov 28, 2009

Does anyone know how long planning applications usually take for a answer. One way or the other.

For instance when was Evertons application submitted?

Louis

jordas · Nov 28, 2009

Sorry for that i know that this is not the right topic, but i am coming to london in wensday, and as a spurs fan i want to know where is located our fanstore. I have orders to buy some t-shirts, flags, pins, hats and etc. , i know the adress of the sthadium, do we have fan store over there, a also want to make a stadium tour (the lane)...is it available, also which nomber metro go to the stadium ?
Thank you in advance !

chrissivad · Nov 28, 2009

The details of the stadium tours are on the website

http://www.tottenhamhotspur.com/tickets/stadium_tours.html

When you say fanstore, do you just mean the club shops?

The main one is on the corner of the Highstreet and Park Lane

chrissivad · Nov 30, 2009

From Edmonton on COYS

Should have planning permission in February 2010

DC_Boy · Nov 30, 2009

chrissivad said:
From Edmonton on COYS

my birthday's in february - might just be the best birthday present i ever had

louisg · Dec 1, 2009

chrissivad said:
From Edmonton on COYS

Thanks Chris

chrissivad · Dec 1, 2009

more from Edmonton

To answer the couple of queries the cost of adding a few more seats is prohibitive.

We've gone for quality over quantity - hence losing 2k to have a kop.

As I understand it the capacity can't be increased in future.

Capacity is an interesting issue. The scum could have gone to 80k but chose not to

If it is too easy for fans to get tickets they pick and choose games and the club doesn't sell the season tickets it needs to survive.

not good news on the increasing the capacity in the future. Would be nice to have known that we have room to increase it.

Rocksuperstar · Dec 1, 2009

chrissivad said:
more from Edmonton

not good news on the increasing the capacity in the future. Would be nice to have known that we have room to increase it.

Maybe they're taking a leaf from the US's book, back when Baseball was their national sport.

As the money started appearing in the game it's profile was raised significantly (much like football in this country). Owners were seeing their stadiums fill up week after week, fanbases grew and the biggest teams started putting up insanely large venues, some seating around the 100k mark.

Few years down the line and the money started leaving the game, preferring Basketball and American Stupidball, the interest started to slump, the atmosphere was gone and all the bajillions that had been spent on these gargantuan stadiums was now too much to lay out. Downscaling was the only option.

Next thing you see, team after team is flogging their shiny new stadium, the price of the land alone being incentive enough in some cases, and they're all moving back into small venues, much more suited to the audiences they attract now.

In the long run it's cost them a lot. If we aim at a sensible, achievable number of fans filling the Lane each week then we're not overspending just to achieve bragging rights of "most seats", then coming up short should we not sell out a few games. I think the key point is that even the richest, most prolific investors are being careful with their cash at the mo.

michaelden · Dec 1, 2009

Chris12345 said:
I imagine the wide aisles are a safety requirement... although the Stade de France I noticed has aisles that widen towards the doors, and are narrow at the top (i.e. where it's only the back row that uses it) which I thought was quite good... ain't seen it anywhere else tho...

I've seen it on a few stadia but none spring to mind. It is a good idea. Squish a few more seats in :up:

MattyP · Dec 1, 2009

Here's some facts that may allay some of the concerns about capacity

The Emirates: capacity 60, 432 (51,071 regular seats, 9,361 corporate)
Spurs new WHL: capacity 56,250 : (49,560 regular seats, 6,690 corporate)

So basically we are 1,500 seats for "proper" fans lower that the Deathstar, the majority of the decrease is on corporates.

punky · Dec 1, 2009

MattyP said:
Here's some facts that may allay some of the concerns about capacity

The Emirates: capacity 60, 432 (51,071 regular seats, 9,361 corporate)
Spurs new WHL: capacity 56,250 : (49,560 regular seats, 6,690 corporate)

So basically we are 1,500 seats for "proper" fans lower that the Deathstar, the majority of the decrease is on corporates.

:clap:

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