What's new

So, you got what you wanted...

Ribble

Well-Known Member
Apr 13, 2011
3,505
4,776
You rally think Moutinho is anywhere near Modric's standard?? Dream on, look where he is playing for a start.

Maybe not, but he's a damn sight closer to Modric's level of creativity than Dribbele.
 

SpurSince57

Well-Known Member
Jan 20, 2006
45,213
8,229
And that is precisely the point - that AVB was judged before he took the reins. That refusal - outright, petty, unreasoned, child-tantrum level refusal - is at least partly to blame for our current predicament.

My esteem to those who actually picked up the point - that during AVB's tenure, as a group we felt it more important to rail against the coach, to sow negativity and discord among the fans than to get behind the man.

And my pity for those of you who STILL. DON'T. GET. IT.

That for all your harping, all your complaining, all your booing, all your hatred, all your mindless armchair management opinions which are backed up with not one joy of actual, professional, experience, we're still in the shit.

You're all so keen to blame someone else - AVB, 'Arry, Adebayor, Levy... Don't you bear some of the fucking responsibility? When do you stand and get counted? When do you learn that all the shit you've been pouring out for the last 16 months has contributed to this miasmic shitstorm we're in right now? And that next time, instead of getting on the manager's back just cause he's not YOUR first choice, you actually support him - even if you think he's not the right man.

Pull your heads out of the sand, get behind the club (and for those who say 'I support the club, not the manager' - the manager is PART of the club, morons!) and stop grinding axes.

We cannot continue like this - it has to stop! I stopped posting on SC because I got tired of the constant sniping, the constant attacks on the manager, the players, the chairman. Not once did I see any of the snipers turn around and say, 'you know what? I bear some of the responsibility for this.'

No, no, no. It was always, 'I pay my money, I have a right to boo', or 'I can criticise all I want - I've been to the Lane 4 billion times'.

Guys, it has to stop. We are damaging ourselves and our club. I know I've gone on a bit of a screed-fest here, but I was trying to make a point, and I apologise for the fury and the ire. Whatever happens next, we have to come back together. We need to celebrate our commonality - our love for our club.

Regardless of income, colour, religion or gender, we are all the same in this one thing.

Please, for the love you have for your club, can we come back together? Can we stop the negativity, can we stop the sniping?

Whatever happens next, let's face it together - without having battle lines drawn. And that applies to all of us - we've all been guilty of vitriol and acting resentfully.

The time to stop is now.

And of course, no-one judged Sherwood before he took over. Oh, no.

In fact, a minority excluded, most SCers—as far as one can tell—were, if not entirely persuaded, at least happy to give AVB the benefit of the doubt. I was a big Harry fan but believed we'd come to a crossroads, and that simply on the grounds of age, several other objections excluded, he wasn't the man to take us on. Another season, maybe, but no further.

AVB's dismissal—although it's a moot point whether he jumped or was pushed—was fuck all to do with the fans. I was pretty neutral about it to begin with, but after what's come out in the aftermath—including the very sympathetic Telegraph article—I'm confident we're well rid.
 

rez9000

Any point?
Feb 8, 2007
11,942
21,098
IMO more people were against the. Harry appointment than AVBs? AVBs performances and lack of improvement is why people weren't happy IMO.
I'm not going to stand up and say that things were perfect with AVB - there were problems, but there were factors that mitigated the problems and also I don't think his removal and the appointment of someone else would solve them.

But that isn't really the area I'm focusing on. Tonight really brought it home. I was out for dinner with my work colleagues and my boss (who supports Norwich) and I were chatting about football and about the match while it was going on. When we went 2-1 down, I overheard a guy a couple of tables along say, 'we're 2-1 down against the Spammers' to his mate. They were Spurs fans. Whereas before, I would have gone over and chatted - it's always nice (or at least it used to be nice) to meet a fellow Spurs fan - I held back. Because I didn't know what type they were - anti-AVB, pro-AVB, anti-this, pro-that.

We've become splintered and bitter. There seems to be no joy in our support of the club - only resentment and criticism. And this has an effect - it reduces us. It impacts on players, on the coaching staff, on the chairman.

Let's say we had a manager who was getting a string of bad results and yet the fans sang for him every game. Wouldn't Levy at least pause before he pulled the trigger. And so we need to decide which is better - for us to pour our scorn on someone because we think he's doing a bad job, or to give someone, whoever it happens to be, a chance at consistency, a chance to build something slowly. If we do that, then others in the club may do the same and we may then reap bigger and better rewards than we have so far. There are no guarantees - it may not work. But sacking manager after manager, getting on the back of manager after manager hasn't worked. Why not give a new approach a try?

I can guarantee you one thing, though - hard times or good times, winning or losing, top of the table or in the relegation zone, as a fanbase we can contribute more by being united than by being so partisan. Likewise, being supportive will bear more fruit than sniping all the live-long day.
 

spurs-r-us

Well-Known Member
Aug 21, 2008
2,201
3,017
Firstly, what does the Redknapp quote have to do with what I'm saying? Secondly, certain players aren't up to scratch. I asked people's opinions on Townsend, I don't think he's good enough and doubt he'll make it here. Same as Dawson, Dembele and Naughton. I don't think I'm something special. I have players I don't like too. But the point I'm making isn't about that, it's about the constant merry go round of managers. Because Dembele or Dawson are under performing I don't want the manager sacked. I'd rather he was given time to shape his team, replace the players who aren't up to it with players who could well be. Sacking the manager constantly because players are underperforming will get us absolutely nowhere. And it's the fans and power obsessed levy who I hold responsible for that. Daniel Levy doesn't need much persuading to sack a boss and set us back again so booing like fuck at the first signs of trouble is going to hound the boss out and it did. Levy has way too much say in what goes on he's the most well known chairman around. Whys that? Because he's sacking managers every five minutes and getting involved with the football side of things way too much. All AVB wanted from Levy was Moutinho. Every knows that and because It didn't make sense for Levy we didn't get him. What a fucking player he is and is exactly what we need. Instead we've got AVB sacked a whole bunch of players we are not even sure AVB wanted, a team in disarray and results to match. Let's all fucking boo Sherwood now he hasn't sorted out this great big mess and it's been what 72 hours. Bring back Harry then sack him for Jol and then hopefully we'll sack him too get 2 new directors of football and seven different managers and maybe then we'll start playing like Arsenal. Boooooo
So you're telling me that all would be fucking rosy if Levy had signed AVB Moutinho?

Sounds to me like AVB was rigid and wanted everything his way.

He should have grown up and adapted to work with the squad he had.
 

Davo99

Well-Known Member
Dec 2, 2006
4,063
5,827
I'm not going to stand up and say that things were perfect with AVB - there were problems, but there were factors that mitigated the problems and also I don't think his removal and the appointment of someone else would solve them.

But that isn't really the area I'm focusing on. Tonight really brought it home. I was out for dinner with my work colleagues and my boss (who supports Norwich) and I were chatting about football and about the match while it was going on. When we went 2-1 down, I overheard a guy a couple of tables along say, 'we're 2-1 down against the Spammers' to his mate. They were Spurs fans. Whereas before, I would have gone over and chatted - it's always nice (or at least it used to be nice) to meet a fellow Spurs fan - I held back. Because I didn't know what type they were - anti-AVB, pro-AVB, anti-this, pro-that.

We've become splintered and bitter. There seems to be no joy in our support of the club - only resentment and criticism. And this has an effect - it reduces us. It impacts on players, on the coaching staff, on the chairman.

Let's say we had a manager who was getting a string of bad results and yet the fans sang for him every game. Wouldn't Levy at least pause before he pulled the trigger. And so we need to decide which is better - for us to pour our scorn on someone because we think he's doing a bad job, or to give someone, whoever it happens to be, a chance at consistency, a chance to build something slowly. If we do that, then others in the club may do the same and we may then reap bigger and better rewards than we have so far. There are no guarantees - it may not work. But sacking manager after manager, getting on the back of manager after manager hasn't worked. Why not give a new approach a try?

I can guarantee you one thing, though - hard times or good times, winning or losing, top of the table or in the relegation zone, as a fanbase we can contribute more by being united than by being so partisan. Likewise, being supportive will bear more fruit than sniping all the live-long day.
This. Fucking this. I can take all the snide comments all night but until people start realising this we'll never be anything more than small fish with a new manager every five minutes.
 

npr60

Far far from planet Earth
Dec 7, 2006
95
64
IMO more people were against the Harry appointment than AVBs? AVBs performances and lack of improvement is why people weren't happy IMO.


Harry - is that you? Can we have our Carroll back please!
 

Davo99

Well-Known Member
Dec 2, 2006
4,063
5,827
So you're telling me that all would be fucking rosy if Levy had signed AVB Moutinho?

Sounds to me like AVB was rigid and wanted everything his way.

He should have grown up and adapted to work with the squad he had.
fancy that the manager wanting things done his way. He's the fucking manager that's the very least he should get. Every other successful manager gets successful by doing things his way not by pandering to an over involved chairman
 

Donki

Has a "Massive Member" Member
May 14, 2007
14,451
18,966
I'm not going to stand up and say that things were perfect with AVB - there were problems, but there were factors that mitigated the problems and also I don't think his removal and the appointment of someone else would solve them.

But that isn't really the area I'm focusing on. Tonight really brought it home. I was out for dinner with my work colleagues and my boss (who supports Norwich) and I were chatting about football and about the match while it was going on. When we went 2-1 down, I overheard a guy a couple of tables along say, 'we're 2-1 down against the Spammers' to his mate. They were Spurs fans. Whereas before, I would have gone over and chatted - it's always nice (or at least it used to be nice) to meet a fellow Spurs fan - I held back. Because I didn't know what type they were - anti-AVB, pro-AVB, anti-this, pro-that.

We've become splintered and bitter. There seems to be no joy in our support of the club - only resentment and criticism. And this has an effect - it reduces us. It impacts on players, on the coaching staff, on the chairman.

Let's say we had a manager who was getting a string of bad results and yet the fans sang for him every game. Wouldn't Levy at least pause before he pulled the trigger. And so we need to decide which is better - for us to pour our scorn on someone because we think he's doing a bad job, or to give someone, whoever it happens to be, a chance at consistency, a chance to build something slowly. If we do that, then others in the club may do the same and we may then reap bigger and better rewards than we have so far. There are no guarantees - it may not work. But sacking manager after manager, getting on the back of manager after manager hasn't worked. Why not give a new approach a try?

I can guarantee you one thing, though - hard times or good times, winning or losing, top of the table or in the relegation zone, as a fanbase we can contribute more by being united than by being so partisan. Likewise, being supportive will bear more fruit than sniping all the live-long day.

I'm not disagreeing with you at all biglad and tbh the kind of support you speak of we did have in the Francis, Gross up to the Jol era. But with success breeds expectation and some fans more than other will be an armchair chairman or an armchair manager without having any experience of what either job entails. Personally for me I realise we are supporters and IMO we are here to do that very thing but we are all individuals and will voice out opinions in different ways.
 

SpurSince57

Well-Known Member
Jan 20, 2006
45,213
8,229
No, what I did was pour scorn on people saying that was a better performance than what had gone before. Why don't you go and revisit what I wrote during AVB's early games, or for that matter Sunday's.

Or you could read one of the posts I've made saying I was happy for Sherwood to given a go if no better options were found.

I open mindedly think that some stupid decisions were made tonight and we paid the price in game that became a mess. That is me open mindedly calling it as I saw it. If next game he makes good choices, we play with some degree of control and the performance is better, I'll say that too. And no doubt, you'll disagree.

There were, but maybe in retrospect.

I'm hardly the greatest fan of Rose or Townsend, but one has been out with a pretty serious injury and the other was crocked. Ade's hardly played this season, and in principle it wasn't a bad idea to take him off. The only major beef I had was starting Defoe—and I'd certainly have brought Soldado on in his stead.

Ultimately, though, what undid us was the lack of aerial presence at the back. Chiriches looks a bloody good player, but he's lacking against the Route One stuff. Same goes for Capoue.
 

Donki

Has a "Massive Member" Member
May 14, 2007
14,451
18,966
Harry - is that you? Can we have our Carroll back please!

Nah he's a good boy, top, top trainer, no complaints here there's never a bad word from him, il do for him what I did for Townsy and Bale.... He will be a world beater :). Benny isn't going farking anywhere either.
 

rich75

Well-Known Member
Nov 9, 2004
7,591
3,215
West Ham beat us 3-0 last time did they? Sorry, peeps that won't sodding well wash!

The assertion was always that the bad results were AVB's fault ONLY.

OK. He's gone. Finito. Done with. So what's the excuse this time?

Maybe we have a load of payers who need to bed in? Nope - that didn't excuse AVB.

Maybe it's that high line that leaves us exposed at the back. Why did we lose again tonight? Wasn't it our defence?

Or perhaps we've got injuries? Such a shame that all out injuries happened since Monday. Wait a moment!

Or the line striker? Yeah we scored a shedload tonight, didn't we?

Now, the haters have got everything they wanted. Having turned the fanbase into a seething cesspool of negativity, disunity and resentment, this is the fucking result!

Excellent work! You just be really fucking proud!

Nope, it was probably more that the players were lacking in any real sense of confidence due to having been thumped 5-0 at home a few days ago and so when put under a bit of pressure they fell to bits.

You might want to calm down a bit, all of your posts read like you're leaping up and down, gurning away and thumping the letters out with a mallet.
 

npr60

Far far from planet Earth
Dec 7, 2006
95
64
Jesus Christ what a terrible contributor you have been.


Well i agree and i apologise, i don't know what i was thinking! The quality of debate up here is of such a high standard! I feel I let my self down, you down, the club and SC........ goes and sits on the naughty step.......
 

Davo99

Well-Known Member
Dec 2, 2006
4,063
5,827
Well i agree and i apologise, i don't know what i was thinking! The quality of debate up here is of such a high standard! I feel I let my self down, you down, the club and SC........ goes and sits on the naughty step.......
Do you actually have an opinion though or are you just here to try and come across as a funny guy?
 

npr60

Far far from planet Earth
Dec 7, 2006
95
64
Do you actually have an opinion though or are you just here to try and come across as a funny guy?

Well Davo, my opinion (for what it's worth - which is nothing in the scheme of things) is that you are an hysterical little bitch who needs to get over yourself. ;)
 

jambreck

Well-Known Member
Jul 20, 2013
3,200
5,879
Getting rid of AVB is the biggest fucking mistake we've made in ages. The sad thing is it's a mistake we've made over and over for my whole life.

I'm so fucking sick of Tottenham Hotspur right now, there's only so long I can defend them. They just let me down over and over again.

The best informed reports (Jason Burt, Portuguese press) suggest that it was at least as much AVB's decision as ours.
 

jolsnogross

Well-Known Member
May 17, 2005
3,729
5,431
It's going to take some time to undo the mess AVB left behind. It bears repeating that sacking Harry was one of the dumbest decisions Levy has made and now he's dug a bloody awful hole of losing for us to try to clamber out of.
 

JUSTINSIGNAL

Well-Known Member
Jul 10, 2008
15,980
48,498
Just read Dims post match interview. Christ alive, it seems his whole philosophy is 'up and at 'em'. Very progressive.
 

chavkev

Well-Known Member
May 15, 2005
401
662
We are a mess at the moment to put it mildly. We are going to have to get our defence organised. I'm not sure Jan would have done much better against the height of West Ham. Realistically it is going to take quite a while to turn us around.

One of our centre halves is semi-permanently injured, another is slow and getting on a bit, one is new this season and the other has been used at left-back and has been played too much. We will need to address this as soon as possible. Walker is being overplayed and Rose has only just come back from injury

Looking further up the field, Sandro has a lamentable fitness record, Dembele is probably not suitable and has an apparent hip issue. Capoue has been injured and in addition has been played at centre-half as an emergency. Paulinho has been overplayed. Lennon and Chadli are both injury prone. Lamela is new to the Premier League and Townsend has now done his hamstring in (Think of what that did to Owen). Siggy has yet to establish himself at the club, Eriksen has been injured and still needs integrating into the league. Holtby is imho being played too far forward.

Up front, Defoe is past his best, Soldado is new to the league and Adebayor has just come back out of purdah.

When you look at the outfield players like this, it is plain to see we are in a mess. Perhaps we as a fanbase do get frustrated easily, but there is a lot to be frustrated about. We need someone in as soon as possible, and today's game has probably brought that day forward.

When the new guy comes in, we need to make an effort to support him, and the team. In my experience we are more defeatist and negative than a lot of the top clubs' fans. We need to overcome this, but to do so, the club need to appear to be going in a clear direction.
 
Top