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What do we think of Poch?

eddiebailey

Well-Known Member
Oct 12, 2004
7,452
6,672
I'm not all that convinced about Poch being this big reason for our late goals and it all being as a result of fitness. Most of the late goals have been pieces of exceptional quality from one player (Eriksen usually) or a free kick (Kane at Villa). I haven't seen us pulling teams apart with our quick passing and untrackable movement in the 92nd like, say, the Arsenal of old. Our pressure in the last few minutes isn't relentless, it's just that we happen to have a player in Eriksen who has exceptional technique from outside the area and when it gets late/desperate enough he chooses to unleash it. It's not a question of fitness, IMO, it's a question of circumstance.
Good point, echoes of Bale under AVB?
 

southlondonyiddo

My eyes have seen some of the glory..
Nov 8, 2004
12,599
15,012
When we play well and win he's a brilliant manager who will lead us to the promise land

When we win in the last minute after being outplayed he's a very lucky manager who's luck will run out because Spurs are in a completely false position

When we draw away he's ok.

When we draw at home against 'pub teams' he's tactically naive as we can't break sides down and the job is too big for him

When we lose at home he's bloody useless and needs to be replaced asap

Hope that helps....
 

LexingtonSpurs

Well-Known Member
Aug 27, 2013
13,456
39,042
Seems some of you will never rate Pochettino. best you just move on then. He was/is exactly who we needed at this moment of the club's history.

The way he has handled this club, and transformed their belief in themselves, has been sublime. He has grabbed control of the club without becoming a tyrant at the same time. Players have improved immensely since the start of the season - go back and watch Eriksen play in August and September, it's been a massive improvement from our best outfield player.

The way he handled whatever happened with Ade, Kaboul, and Capoue (and even the situation with Lenon) has been great. He clearly has managed that situation so there is no question he is in charge, yet he has allowed each player to work his way back into the squad. He did not make a public spectacle of it, he did not throw anyone under the bus.

We have a big month ahead, but no matter the results I am confident we have the right man in charge for the long term, More importantly, Levy knows it too.
 

southlondonyiddo

My eyes have seen some of the glory..
Nov 8, 2004
12,599
15,012
Seems some of you will never rate Pochettino. best you just move on then. He was/is exactly who we needed at this moment of the club's history.

The way he has handled this club, and transformed their belief in themselves, has been sublime. He has grabbed control of the club without becoming a tyrant at the same time. Players have improved immensely since the start of the season - go back and watch Eriksen play in August and September, it's been a massive improvement from our best outfield player.

The way he handled whatever happened with Ade, Kaboul, and Capoue (and even the situation with Lenon) has been great. He clearly has managed that situation so there is no question he is in charge, yet he has allowed each player to work his way back into the squad. He did not make a public spectacle of it, he did not throw anyone under the bus.

We have a big month ahead, but no matter the results I am confident we have the right man in charge for the long term, More importantly, Levy knows it too.


Nice post apart from the last bit. Levy knows his business but knows sweet fa about football
 

The Spurs Lad

Ye more thou know
Jun 18, 2012
634
953
Wasn't exactly sacked, and I think that was actually one of our best starts to a season in a while.

The problem was the knee-jerkers who couldn't take that a newly assembled team being disrupted by the AVB/Ade issue might need some time.

The Danny Blanch thing is lovely and romantic, but if it has to get a bit ugly and scrappy to get into the CL before we can adapt to a more pleasing style of football, so be it. I think people often misinterpret what he meant by that, and it was supposed to be, for example, not playing like George Graham and winning 1-0.

Should have said "The game is about scoring"

Im sure he was told resign or be sacked. Let's be honest there.

Secondly that start was extremely lucky and his luck run out, it was clear as day to some of us for a very long time that avb would crumble in the end. Awful tactics. Couldn't attack or defend. The fact Sherwood com in and did better says It all.

You need to understand the difference between good performances and playing good football. It seems many mistake people asking for good performances as asking for good football. Two completely seperate things.

A good performance is winning without relying on your world class keeper to keep you in it every week vs dismal sides like Leicester and Palace.

Even just slowly improving week by week can constitute good performances. What we seen under avb and what we have seen so far under poch is wildly inconsistent.

Poch is already better than avb although that's not really an achievement. He's shown some good signs in that he wasn't scared to overturn his ludicrously idiotic decision to make kaboul and ade captain/vice and we seem far better at interplay around the box.

However he is still very, very poor defensively and his complere neglecting of any form of holding midfielder is a pivoltal issue in that. We lack width from 3 AMs so he tries to make up for it with wing backs which is fine, however to do that and not play a holding dm leaves our two centre backs isolated against strikers and it has shown in our poor defensive record and the abundance of glaring chances we allow the opposition.
 

The Spurs Lad

Ye more thou know
Jun 18, 2012
634
953
Seems some of you will never rate Pochettino. best you just move on then. He was/is exactly who we needed at this moment of the club's history.

The way he has handled this club, and transformed their belief in themselves, has been sublime. He has grabbed control of the club without becoming a tyrant at the same time. Players have improved immensely since the start of the season - go back and watch Eriksen play in August and September, it's been a massive improvement from our best outfield player.

The way he handled whatever happened with Ade, Kaboul, and Capoue (and even the situation with Lenon) has been great. He clearly has managed that situation so there is no question he is in charge, yet he has allowed each player to work his way back into the squad. He did not make a public spectacle of it, he did not throw anyone under the bus.

We have a big month ahead, but no matter the results I am confident we have the right man in charge for the long term, More importantly, Levy knows it too.

Youre right with that. However none of it relates to his tactical ability, particularly defensively and attacking width which have so far been poor.
 

Sir Henry

Facts > Feelings
Aug 18, 2008
2,706
2,817
Personally I think Poch has had to do a bit of learning and adjustment within himself too. I can see the same values and way of playing hasnt changed but possibly the way he goes about it has.
 

Kendall

Well-Known Member
Feb 8, 2007
38,502
11,933
Seems some of you will never rate Pochettino. best you just move on then. He was/is exactly who we needed at this moment of the club's history.

The way he has handled this club, and transformed their belief in themselves, has been sublime. He has grabbed control of the club without becoming a tyrant at the same time. Players have improved immensely since the start of the season - go back and watch Eriksen play in August and September, it's been a massive improvement from our best outfield player.

The way he handled whatever happened with Ade, Kaboul, and Capoue (and even the situation with Lenon) has been great. He clearly has managed that situation so there is no question he is in charge, yet he has allowed each player to work his way back into the squad. He did not make a public spectacle of it, he did not throw anyone under the bus.

We have a big month ahead, but no matter the results I am confident we have the right man in charge for the long term, More importantly, Levy knows it too.

I don't think it's a case of never rating him. I'm just not as convinced as others. Move on? No thanks.

I remember having the same responses when I was unconvinced about AVB during his first term. I think there are cracks and Poch is not above criticism for what I perceive as being quite significant issues in our style of play and the substance of our performances both defensively and in attack.
 

The Spurs Lad

Ye more thou know
Jun 18, 2012
634
953
Are you sure?

Burnley's equaliser in the cup
Palace x2
Leicester x2
Sheffield United x2

Older ones include Besiktas at home, West Brom at home, Sunderland away


I'm not all that convinced about Poch being this big reason for our late goals and it all being as a result of fitness. Most of the late goals have been pieces of exceptional quality from one player (Eriksen usually) or a free kick (Kane at Villa). I haven't seen us pulling teams apart with our quick passing and untrackable movement in the 92nd like, say, the Arsenal of old. Our pressure in the last few minutes isn't relentless, it's just that we happen to have a player in Eriksen who has exceptional technique from outside the area and when it gets late/desperate enough he chooses to unleash it. It's not a question of fitness, IMO, it's a question of circumstance.

In terms of our ability to create, we are toothless far too often. Moving the ball too slowly, no running from deep, poor crossing. It's good that we have a striker with a very good conversion rate.

Defensively, our lack of clean sheets and requirement for Lloris to pull worldies out of his arse every week highlights a concern that we are riding our luck, even in games where we have controlled 60+% posession.

Absolutely bang on.

Poch has done some good thing ( a lot of which making up for his own mistakes early on) but he is still far from being a top manager and nowhere near as special as is being made out.

Maybe with time he will improve but as it stands I'm not seeing anything beyond the level sherwood or Harry set.
 

Kendall

Well-Known Member
Feb 8, 2007
38,502
11,933
Good point, echoes of Bale under AVB?

Echoes, for me, yes. Not the same because I do think the team is playing better as a whole and we're not just reliant on Eriksen - Kane, Lloris and Chadli in particular are very important. I think off the ball we look better in the middle and attacking third, trying to win posession back higher up the pitch and Poch deserves credit for that, but often, for me, it's too sporadic. We do it some games really effectively, other games we barely do it at all.

Poch also, IMO, has issues with plan B, like AVB before him and I think his subs are questionable at best.

Attack wise we need to be smarter. When I watch Liverpool, for all the flak they get their running from deep and their movement/passing it quicker, more urgent and more difficult to follow. With Sturridge back, they will reap more rewards from that - we need to create more opportunites for Kane, rather than expecting him to do it all himself, which, to his credit, he is managing.

Then defensively - well, what can you say? I always expect us to concede.
 

Mullers

Unknown member
Jan 4, 2006
25,914
16,413
Seems some of you will never rate Pochettino. best you just move on then. He was/is exactly who we needed at this moment of the club's history.

The way he has handled this club, and transformed their belief in themselves, has been sublime. He has grabbed control of the club without becoming a tyrant at the same time. Players have improved immensely since the start of the season - go back and watch Eriksen play in August and September, it's been a massive improvement from our best outfield player.

The way he handled whatever happened with Ade, Kaboul, and Capoue (and even the situation with Lenon) has been great. He clearly has managed that situation so there is no question he is in charge, yet he has allowed each player to work his way back into the squad. He did not make a public spectacle of it, he did not throw anyone under the bus.

We have a big month ahead, but no matter the results I am confident we have the right man in charge for the long term, More importantly, Levy knows it too.

Not sure about that bit, the rest of your post I agree with though.
 

225

Living in hope, existing in disappointment
Dec 15, 2014
4,563
9,064
Ok sorry, he knows more about football than you

Is that better?

Saying that a former season ticket holder, who has raised the club from lower table/relegation to regular top 5/6 finishes, "knows nothing about football" is completely idiotic - you've got absolutely no evidence to back up that he knows any less than you.

Firing off abuse doesn't change that. It's a prime example of Hitchen's razor.
 

jambreck

Well-Known Member
Jul 20, 2013
3,200
5,879
Nice post apart from the last bit. Levy knows his business but knows sweet fa about football

Levy is immersed in football nearly 24 / 7, and has been so for some 15 years.

He goes to nearly every game, home and away. He regularly talks to (and takes advice from) coaches; players; ex coaches; ex players; directors of football; agents; and football administrators. From all around the world.

Was he once a professional footballer? No. Does he have a UEFA Pro license - or even a lower coaching qualification, for that matter? No. Has he made a number of bad footballing decisions over the years? Absolutely (though hindsight is a wonderful thing).

But does all that amount to him knowing "sweet fa about football"? Categorically not.

With respect, mate, it just comes across as an easy way to have a pop at him.
 
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jambreck

Well-Known Member
Jul 20, 2013
3,200
5,879
Im sure he was told resign or be sacked. Let's be honest there.

Secondly that start was extremely lucky and his luck run out, it was clear as day to some of us for a very long time that avb would crumble in the end. Awful tactics. Couldn't attack or defend. The fact Sherwood com in and did better says It all.

You need to understand the difference between good performances and playing good football. It seems many mistake people asking for good performances as asking for good football. Two completely seperate things.

A good performance is winning without relying on your world class keeper to keep you in it every week vs dismal sides like Leicester and Palace.

Even just slowly improving week by week can constitute good performances. What we seen under avb and what we have seen so far under poch is wildly inconsistent.

Poch is already better than avb although that's not really an achievement. He's shown some good signs in that he wasn't scared to overturn his ludicrously idiotic decision to make kaboul and ade captain/vice and we seem far better at interplay around the box.

However he is still very, very poor defensively and his complere neglecting of any form of holding midfielder is a pivoltal issue in that. We lack width from 3 AMs so he tries to make up for it with wing backs which is fine, however to do that and not play a holding dm leaves our two centre backs isolated against strikers and it has shown in our poor defensive record and the abundance of glaring chances we allow the opposition.

Nope.

It is well documented that he resigned. He admitted as much himself.

It's quite possible that Levy would have sacked him at the end of the season but it was perfectly apparent that he did not want to sack him at that particular time.
 
Last edited:

Everlasting Seconds

Well-Known Member
Jan 9, 2014
14,914
26,616
I remain sceptical for now. We are performing better than during the first 1/3 of the PL matches. Initially, we were really poor. 40 points is what Moyes had with ManUtd at the same point last year, and most thought he was performing poorly.

Of course this season thus far, one need fewer points to be a part of the top 4 (and top 3) battle, so one can be tricked into thinking that we are performing well. 40 points over 23 matches are 3 fewer than Spurs last season, 1 fewer than the season before and 9 points fewer than the season before that.

I think we often play poor football still, concede too many goals, and sometimes lack decisive tactical changes in "the plan". On the other hand, we've reached a cup final, which is great. For now, I think some careful soberness is most prudent, but at the same time recognising that the second 1/3 of the PL season has been a big improvement.
 

southlondonyiddo

My eyes have seen some of the glory..
Nov 8, 2004
12,599
15,012
Saying that a former season ticket holder, who has raised the club from lower table/relegation to regular top 5/6 finishes, "knows nothing about football" is completely idiotic - you've got absolutely no evidence to back up that he knows any less than you.

Firing off abuse doesn't change that. It's a prime example of Hitchen's razor.


Firing off abuse

Whatever!!

What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence....


Levy has been our chairman since 2001

Since then our average league position is 8th

We've had 9 different managers

We have won 1 (one) trophy since he became chairman 14 years ago

He has done a fantastic job for ENIC and its shareholders. He has run our club financially very well

He's made more mistakes in regards to the football team than I care to mention......
 

225

Living in hope, existing in disappointment
Dec 15, 2014
4,563
9,064
40 points is what Moyes had with ManUtd at the same point last year, and most thought he was performing poorly.

I don't remember us winning the league last year, or indeed frequently, so that's what the comparison is there.
 
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