An Unpopular Opinion Amnesty

eddiebailey · May 10, 2015

Pleat_Out said:
Why don't we get David Cameron to replace Poch then?

He would probably turn up for training at the wrong ground.

jezz · May 10, 2015

Pleat_Out said:
So you'd rather have a bloke who was a good PR man rather than wins football games? Why don't we get David Cameron to replace Poch then?

Blackcanary said:
But that PR is heard by the players too - from what I could see, they neither liked nor respected Tim. He'd have got nowhere with that dressing room in the long term and you could see that the longer the season went on.

This.

eddiebailey · May 10, 2015

Blackcanary said:
But that PR is heard by the players too - from what I could see, they neither liked nor respected Tim. He'd have got nowhere with that dressing room in the long term and you could see that the longer the season went on.

Doesn't seem to have problem with the Villa players. The supply teacher problem was what did for Tim at Spurs, and it got worse the more uncertain his future became. Had fuck all to do with players views on his press conferences.

Pleat_Out · May 10, 2015

Blackcanary said:
But that PR is heard by the players too - from what I could see, they neither liked nor respected Tim. He'd have got nowhere with that dressing room in the long term and you could see that the longer the season went on.

Thing is, Sherwood won 4, drew 1 and lost 1 of his last 6 games. All this with players who didn't like or respect him? Contrast with the way we're ending this season with players who apparently do like and respect the manager?

Could it be that Sherwood had actually sussed who the legends and losers were and had dropped them? Or dropped as many as he could? I doubt he could have got a complete XI, frankly. Could it be that these are exactly the players that we could have done with clearing out, even if it took some bad results for a while? Not that Sherwood got bad results anyway. Best points per game of any manager in the PL era taking over an absolute shambles.

jezz · May 10, 2015

eddiebailey said:
Doesn't seem to have problem with the Villa players. The supply teacher problem was what did for Tim at Spurs, and it got worse the more uncertain his future became. Had fuck all to do with players views on his press conferences.

Eriksen thought Tim was amusing.
He's gone now so who cares.

Blackcanary · May 10, 2015

eddiebailey said:
Doesn't seem to have problem with the Villa players. The supply teacher problem was what did for Tim at Spurs, and it got worse the more uncertain his future became. Had fuck all to do with players views on his press conferences.

I think his attitude alienated the players and I think that he has notably changed his behaviour at Villa to stop differentiating between himself and the players. You're right that that supply teacher thing was also a big factor, but he also hung our players out to dry and I can't see that being popular.

stemark44 · May 10, 2015

eddiebailey said:
Doesn't seem to have problem with the Villa players. The supply teacher problem was what did for Tim at Spurs, and it got worse the more uncertain his future became. Had fuck all to do with players views on his press conferences.

This 1,000,000 %.

jezz · May 10, 2015

Pleat_Out said:
Thing is, Sherwood won 4, drew 1 and lost 1 of his last 6 games. All this with players who didn't like or respect him? Contrast with the way we're ending this season with players who apparently do like and respect the manager?

Could it be that Sherwood had actually sussed who the legends and losers were and had dropped them? Or dropped as many as he could? I doubt he could have got a complete XI, frankly. Could it be that these are exactly the players that we could have done with clearing out, even if it took some bad results for a while? Not that Sherwood got bad results anyway. Best points per game of any manager in the PL era taking over an absolute shambles.

Remind me of the Liverpool, Chelsea, and City results.

Blackcanary · May 10, 2015

Pleat_Out said:
Thing is, Sherwood won 4, drew 1 and lost 1 of his last 6 games. All this with players who didn't like or respect him? Contrast with the way we're ending this season with players who apparently do like and respect the manager?

Could it be that Sherwood had actually sussed who the legends and losers were and had dropped them? Or dropped as many as he could? I doubt he could have got a complete XI, frankly. Could it be that these are exactly the players that we could have done with clearing out, even if it took some bad results for a while? Not that Sherwood got bad results anyway. Best points per game of any manager in the PL era taking over an absolute shambles.

Well, that's debatable!

I think you'd probably have to say that both Poch and Sherwod have performed pretty much exactly to par. In retrospect, Sherwood did better than many of us thought at the time, but he also did it by encouraging individual freedom and ignoring any kind of structure. He wasn't putting anything in place for the long term,and I think he knew that. He used Spurs as a very high profile promo for himself (and why not, I would) and is reaping the benefits now at Villa, where his ability to get us scoring again has put him in very good stead at a club where the team were scared stiff and needed encouragement to play expressively.

jezz · May 10, 2015

Pleat_Out said:
The 5th, 6th, and 6th-8th finishes of the last 3 seasons are more the result of the after glow of the Redknapp and Arnesen/Jol years. How would the managers we've had over these last 3 seasons have got on if they'd taken over the team Jol did, who had just finished 14th? Or the one Redknapp did, which was bottom and had finished 11th the year before. Midtable, I'd expect.

Afterglow?
Rednapp underachieved with the squad he had, fantastic football no doubt.
That should have been challenging for the title, not collapsing at the final hurdle.

Chris12 · May 10, 2015

Oi ****s. No negative or disagreeing reps. You fucking pricks don't seem to understand amnesty. Ironic from me hey? Yes but still.

Pleat_Out · May 10, 2015

jezz said:
Remind me of the Liverpool, Chelsea, and City results.

Yes because you only get half points for beating Manchester United away, Southampton home and away, or Everton at home, or Stoke away, or Swansea away or Palace at home or Newcastle away... all of which Sherwood won. Far better to just turn up for Arsenal at home and then lose the others!

eddiebailey · May 10, 2015

jezz said:
Eriksen thought Tim was amusing.
He's gone now so who cares.

I have no idea what Eriksen thought of Tim but I do know that Tim has been the one manager able to get consistent performances out of him.

But for what it is worth Christian is big mates with Harry and Gylfi who both rate Tim highly.

Chris12 · May 10, 2015

eddiebailey said:
I have no idea what Eriksen thought of Tim but I do know that Tim has been the one manager able to get consistent performances out of him.

But for what it is worth Christian is big mates with Harry and Gylfi who both rate Tim highly.

Just cause your mates like someone doesn't mean you do.

Blackcanary · May 10, 2015

stemark44 said:
Thats bollocks.......Poch has ostracised far more players than Sherwood ever did.

Err, yes, I know. I've just said as much in another thread. They can both be crap at it. It's not necessarily either/or...

eddiebailey · May 10, 2015

Chris12 said:
Just cause your mates like someone doesn't mean you do.

And just because you struggle to pay attention and keep a straight face because of something happening off camera it does not mean you find the manager amusing.

jezz · May 10, 2015

Pleat_Out said:
Yes because you only get half points for beating Manchester United away, Southampton home and away, or Everton at home, or Stoke away, or Swansea away or Palace at home or Newcastle away... all of which Sherwood won. Far better to just turn up for Arsenal at home and then lose the others!

Yes but not getting spanked on a regular basis is progress. 8 points against top 4 vs 1 last year.
Has Poch made mistakes? Yes he has.
Next season is his make or break season.

Pleat_Out · May 10, 2015

jezz said:
Yes but not getting spanked on a regular basis is progress. 8 points against top 4 vs 1 last year.
Has Poch made mistakes? Yes he has.
Next season is his make or break season.

Man City 1-4? Stoke 0-3? Chelsea 0-3? Man Utd 0-3? Stoke 0-3? That regular enough for you? He's got the defeats down by 1 goal though, so fair play for that! That said, Sherwood also beat Sunderland 5-1, Newcastle 4-0, Stoke 3-0, Villa 3-0... so he ended up with a goal difference of +11. Poch now has a goal difference +2. Plus ca change!

jezz · May 10, 2015

Pleat_Out said:
Man City 1-4? Stoke 0-3? Chelsea 0-3? Man Utd 0-3? Stoke 0-3? That regular enough for you? He's got the defeats down by 1 goal though, so fair play for that! That said, Sherwood also beat Sunderland 5-1, Newcastle 4-0, Stoke 3-0, Villa 3-0... so he ended up with a goal difference of +11. Poch now has a goal difference +2. Plus ca change!

Yes Tim managed 0 yes ZERO points against the top 4.

THFCSPURS19 · May 10, 2015

Pleat_Out said:
Man City 1-4? Stoke 0-3? Chelsea 0-3? Man Utd 0-3? Stoke 0-3? That regular enough for you? He's got the defeats down by 1 goal though, so fair play for that! That said, Sherwood also beat Sunderland 5-1, Newcastle 4-0, Stoke 3-0, Villa 3-0... so he ended up with a goal difference of +11. Poch now has a goal difference +2. Plus ca change!

You used the Stoke result twice.

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